Two ways to debate: for knowledge or for power

Analysis and Opinion

By JoeAm

I’ve observed that there are two debate styles on social media and in the bigger world and it is good to know which arena you are in.

Let me call the two different styles “knowledge-seeking” and “power-seeking”.


The fundamentals of a knowledge-seeking discussion or debate are honesty, candor, and respect. We slip into the discussions as either a teacher or a student and exchange what we know, or the questions we have. The goal is to advance our understanding of things and search earnestly for solutions to problems. Participants are equal in stature. Fairness is an important part of the discussion dynamic.

There is little knowledge-seeking debate around these days, but there is some.


In power-seeking debates or discussions, we see different characteristics. Winning takes the place of learning, and fairness is tossed out in favor of advantage. Honesty is replaced with shadings of truth or with logical fallacies. Respect for the other side is held if it is advantageous to do so (to impress the audience) or, more often, replaced by name-calling, ridicule, insults, or even slander.

Some power-seeking debates are normal within a capitalistic democracy. Advertisers use it, so do politicians, and even applicants for a job will shade the truth. It’s expected. It is a competitive society and we choose to compete.

Some of the power debates are not normal and not healthy. They seek to harm people through lies or malicious accusations. They seek to distort the facts upon which good, honest decisions are made. Trolls are well-known for their dishonest, malicious debating style. Even government, when it red-tags innocents, is engaging in a malicious form of power-seeking debates.

The futility of mixing the two

Seeking knowledge within a power-seeking debate can’t reach that knowledge for all the shadings of truth thrust into it by people seeking to dominate. Seeking power within a knowledge-seeking debate just stirs up frustration or anger. Two knowledge-seekers can produce enlightenment in a harmonious and respectful search for understanding. Two power-seekers can generate harmony if their goals are the same but they are sure to generate ugly conflict if they have different goals.

What can we do differently?

The first step is to identify the style of others in the debate forum. Are they seeking understanding or selling something?

The second step is to agree on the objective of the discussion, to gain knowledge or to agree on whatever is being sold.

I personally seldom enter debates with those peddling product or agenda. I block trolls and invite the power-seekers to find a better forum. Power-seekers by definition are not interested in discovery. They need to win. My goals for the most part are discovery.

I think the world will work better if we start to weed out the malicious power-seekers. They make problems, they don’t solve them. They distort the facts upon which decisions are made. I think the government’s red-tagging is not productive, and trolls are a blight on humanity.

It’s not easy to do, but we should identify the malicious power-seekers and shut them down. Philippine Government says it wants to get rid of trolls and fake news. I’ll believe them when red-tagging is stopped and Duterte/Marcos trolls stand down.

The Philippines cannot build a strong nation on a foundation of malicious deceits.


Cover photo of Ukrainian legislature brawl from India TV News.


494 Responses to “Two ways to debate: for knowledge or for power”
  1. Karl Garcia says:

    In tweeter I had blocked so many but decided to stop because it is quite tiring too and some I block might have been an impulse move to be regretted later.
    In FB ,I blocked my cousin for thinking that his or her account have been hacked, my sister for shallow sibling rivalry stiff.

    When it comes to debates on places other than TSOH, I sometimes just watch and l contribute if there is something too share, sometimes I tweet corny stuff in a serious argument which I have to change even here in this forum.

    But TSOH is not my first rodeo, I met Joe in Filipino Voices and before that I have been commenting since 2005.
    I have been half jokingly called a profiler by one of my fellow commenters because I had a bad habit of remembering what they said about them selves and stuff and how they comment.
    So the proposed know the style of others can backfire and get the hitman and profiler accusations even when done half-jokingly.
    I still got a lot of learning to do.

    • JoeAm says:

      Yes, that cracker-jack memory of yours will get you into trouble now and then. Well, knowledge occasionally upsets the power pusher’s apple cart. I can barely remember the people we engaged with back then. I recall an older attorney who criticized me for calling the Philippines “the islands”, and boy howdy, I’ve not done it since. My face actually turned red. I was dumb back then, have learned a lot, and – you are right – still got a ways to go.

      • Karl Garcia says:

        A few names I remember:Benjamin Cardinez or Ben Card, Abe Margallo, and JCC . But I think it was Bencard.
        That cracker jack memory again. It was jcc who called me a profiler.

      • Philippine Islands was what the Philippines were called in the US colonial period. Older generation Filipino migrants still call the old country “P.I.” and it seems some Fil-Ams also do, oblivious of the modern connotation of PI in the Philippines.

        The modern form of the lawyer’s reaction is Pinoys getting worked up about some Fil-Ams who use Filipinx as a term, it is artificial agitation but well I guess it’s part of the territory.

    • JoeAm says:

      I’ve blocked two notables, Raissa Robles’s husband for calling me an enabler of Duterte’s killings for exchanging views with DFA Sec Locsin, and Boom Buencamino for ranting about the 20,000 Afghans being left behind as the US exited fast. It turns out the US got 170,000 out. Both those gents have a latent hostility toward the US, I noticed. So it is more peaceful not having to listen to that.

      • Karl Garcia says:

        Understandable about Alan and MB.

        When we were answering LCX group tagging question.
        And you used @yellow+x@@JoeAmerica
        That was the exact time Sec Locsin got assigned to UK and there was yellow heat at that time,.
        I used to inject my self in your discussions even that I am sure I won’t get a reply so I respected him for your candid exchanges and even tweeted about it and even lost a few followers.
        As to his new assignment I honestly gave a snarky tweet that it is for him as alter ego to complete BBM’s academic requirements.

        • JoeAm says:

          Yes, well, I offend people regularly, pinks and yellows. I give Marcos a clean slate as President because that’s the only way I can assess what he is doing without overlaying it with a negative on everything. That bothers those who detest the guy, mostly it seems for what his father did, but also his ‘degree’, history revisions, tax problems, and presumably cheating on elections. Well, that’s baggage for sure, but his acts as President stand apart from them.

          What others don’t get is my “context” for exchanges with Sec Locsin. My contribution to the Philippines might be stated as “an influencer for good governance under the Constitution”, and if I can influence Secretaries and Senators, I’m doing my job. Plus I genuinely enjoy the ‘literary’ quality of our banter and debates. He operates on both a deep and infuriatingly obnoxious plane, and it is a learning experience for me to try to figure out what he means, and whether or not I agree. It’s been an enriching dialogue and power pushers are not going to keep me from my education. 🙂

  2. Joe, this notion that there’s two types of debates is flawed. There’s only debate. here,

    a formal discussion on a particular topic in a public meeting or legislative assembly, in which opposing arguments are put forward.

    Now we’re not here as legislative assembly, but we are certainly a public meeting, forum if you will.

    Formal IMHO means no ad hominems and fallacies are uncovered politely or not, but uncovered nonetheless.

    The key factor to the definition of debate is that its oppositional. one side takes the other and the other side takes his. its a contest.

    The knowledge gained is in the research involved in pursuing this contest, whose point is to win, otherwise its not a debate, its just chit chat; knowledge also is gained from the opposition, if the opposition presents a proposition or point that his opponent had not considered.

    So although knowledge is incidental, the point of debate is to clobber the other side, not personally mind you, but to show how his side is found wanting, either because the stance is untenable or lack of research on the part of the opposition.

    here’s a good rule on this,

    But debate is not a sharing let’s share our feelings and be comfortable in each others sharing of knowledge, debate is contest, like playing chess, someone has to lose. Otherwise its not debate, Joe.

    So there’s only one debate, not two. You engage in one, be prepared to back your claims, and not say stuff like Juan did, eg. “this is common sense”. Back your propositions!

    For example this is a debate right now, I’m taking a stance that theres only one definition of debate and you are claiming that there are in fact two definitions for debate. we can even go as far as etymology here, Joe 😉 :

    From Middle English debaten, from Old French debatre (“to fight, contend, debate, also literally to beat down”), from Romanic desbattere, from Latin dis- (“apart, in different directions”) + battuere (“to beat, to fence”).

    • I guess this also applies ,

      • I have to connect all this to the Philippines… (i forgot) 😉

        My point here is debates are good, if you don’t feel offended, or butt hurt, or diminished by it, then these are like chess games, which hone and polish , then take into the real world where you can calmly recreate said debate with others, but like playing chess you’re already familiar with all the possible moves.

        Contest doesn’t really mean conflict, and i know Filipinos hate conflict, they’d rather go the passive aggressive route, but if more Filipinos engaged in debate (and eat more pro biotics and pre biotics ) they’ll be able to see all the stuff that Joe above listed. Again its about participation,

        the core of democracy is debate. that padawan-Jedi relationship Joe envisioned is called mentorship, like a bird feeding its young, that’s not debate.

        It would be so weird if you guys are taking turns doing this. Yuck. but for sure that’s not debate.

    • I guess this is the kind of debate you mean:

      That is what Joe would call a debate for power, between political arch-rivals.

      A panel discussion in a talk show might have the same topic, how did Germany mess up its energy policy in the last 10 years, but the debate might be more of a debate for knowledge especially if the moderator channels it that way.

      Especially the Sunday late morning talk show for journalists is of the exchange of views sort, such that my father who was part of 2-3 such shows in West Germany during and after late February 1986 said “that was not a real discussion”.

      There are some moderators nowadays here in Germany who do allow for people with very different opinions to clash for a while, then they interrupt and ask questions to others. The question really is what measure of contentiousness is productive and what no longer is.

      • This is a better example of a debate both for power and knowledge:

        But now I’m wondering if Germany’s also gonna turn on its nuclear power like France for the winter.

        • I’m was really surprised with wind power, Ireneo. that’s a big chunk.

        • Germany only has three nuclear power plants still running as Merkel decided to shut them all down after Fukushima. The plan to increase renewable energy didn’t quite reach its goals yet.

          The debate I showed is also about two of the three plants. One is in Baden-Württemberg and the other is in Bavaria – Isar 2 just north of Munich.

          The government did a simulation run of power supply based on data from a harsh winter some years ago and with pessimistic assumptions re natural gas and more. Based on that they decided that the two plants should be held “in reserve” and not shut down end of this year.

          Germany has the Greens in its ruling coalition so they need a reason to break with ideology. This might be even harder for them than Foreign Minister Joschka Fischer breaking with the classic Green anti-war course to support the GWOT during the turn of the century.

          The Greens in the Munich municipal council are for keeping Isar 2 running, of course they can’t afford to be blamed and lose their place in the ruling coalition here if the lights go out. Berlin Greens are another story so they had to go through this monkey circus simulation and all.

          Next round: the operator of Isar 2 said that “istambay” is not feasible for a nuclear plant. Basically the coalition will be forced to keep Isar 2 and possibly Neckarwestheim running.

          Bavaria is BMW and Audi, Baden-Württemberg is Porsche and Mercedes, they need electricity.

          Volkswagen in the northern state of Lower Saxony may well use a mix of coal plus wind. Northern Germany does have a lot of wind power due to its flat, windswept topography.

          Oh, Continental Europe is mostly one power grid so I wouldn’t be surprised if Germany buys power from France on the power spot market. That kind of stuff doesn’t bother many Greens over here, a lot of them are Pharisees, even as I have sympathy for ecological thinking.

          Wouldn’t be surprised either if the Czechs go to the max with their old nuclear plants just across the border to Bavaria, running them is a far greater risk than running a state of the art plant like Isar 2 over here, oh well then we might end up buying from them too worst case..

    • Juan Luna says:

      “Joe, this notion that there’s two types of debates is flawed. There’s only debate.”

      “I’m taking a stance that theres only ONE DEFINITION of debate and you are claiming that there are in fact two definitions…” – LCpl_X
      – – – – – –
      I agree a debate is a debate. As to definition, I think you misread what JoeAm wrote; he says, “I’ve observed that there are two debate STYLES…” And he went on to categorize these styles when he wrote, “Let me call the two different STYLES “knowledge-seeking” and “power-seeking”.

      Clearly, he was not talking about definition.

      • from Ireneo: “The question really is what measure of contentiousness is productive and what no longer is.”


        That’s like saying theres two STYLES of playing basketball , for health and for sport, the first everyone wins, and latter only one wins. By definition basketball is a sport thus one team wins, the other loses.

        Same with debate.

        But Ireneo brings up a really good point, at some point the contest expires. Whether one is declared victorious (that’s what the late edgar lores used to do here), or the debate just fizzles out.

        The fact that you kept coming for more with no more, means it did not fizzle out for you, Juan. I for one have already presented all points. Though I’ll entertain more if needed (but that has to be in the other blog).

        But there is a natural ending of these things, now Joe use to just ban me outright in years past, and it would end thus. These days though, Joe extends me a longer leash for these talks.


        Ireneo is correct theres a natural ebb and flow of these unmoderated debates.

        • Juan Luna says:

          That’s like saying theres two STYLES of playing basketball , for health and for sport, the first everyone wins, and latter only one wins. By definition basketball is a sport thus one team wins, the other loses. – LCpl
          – – – – – –
          There goes that classic LCpl’s circuitous response when caught in a corner. Lol!

          “Same with debate.” – LCpl
          – – – – – –
          Not really. Basketball is mainly physical while debate’s territory is more than dribbling and passing the ball. You know that.

          But Ireneo brings up a really good point, at some point the contest expires. – LCpl
          – – – – – –
          Again, not exactly accurate. There is really no contest to begin with because nobody monitors the discussion to declare who the winner is. So, if there is no judge and no rules on how one wins, there is no contest! Example? You and Micha frequently tussle on issues with really no end in sight. You both give your best to outdo the other to the point that colors fly and heads get heated until the other side gets tired. And then you resume the skirmishes in another issue. Don’t get me wrong, I have nothing against it for I, too, can go 15 rounds with anyone if the issue is really worth fighting for.

          • Juan, obviously I best Micha all the time and consistently (except for MMT), just don’t tell Micha that. 😉

            • Juan Luna says:

              “Juan, obviously I best Micha all the time and consistently…” – LCpl
              – – – – – –
              Umm, I don’t know about that. I see the both of you as the Ali-Frazier of the SOH. Now, who is Ali and who is Frazier is really up to both of you.

              • Probably more apt as Pacquiao vs. Marquez.

                But for sure I know I won the Russia vs. Ukraine debate with Micha.

              • JoeAm says:

                Proof positive that LCX is a power seeker.

              • Joe, remember those debates i had with i7sharp, and you said how it was better than Sunday school, contest begets knowledge. see?

                In the case of the Russia vs. Ukraine debate with Micha, Micha was clearly wrong because Micha’s assumption was that US/NATO bad, even after the invasion.

                Now Ireneo’s gonna be freezing his Heine off this winter!!! ergo Putin is bad. Not US/NATO.

              • Micha says:

                What perverted concept of “winning” do you have in the Russia-Ukraine war, corporal D?

              • The Queen has just died, Micha.

                Stop power seeking. and lets just remember her time here.

              • Prof. Chua has a live podcast..

              • That’s another good movie about the Queen too, Ireneo.

                that Prime Minister and Queen relationship is really interesting, we don’t have that here in the US. where the Prime Minister answers to the people, reports to the Queen, and the Queen reports directly to God.

                I guess since Filipino presidents report to Quiboloy, the Philippines has the closest system to the UK.

              • Micha says:

                By all means remember her, but the question hanging for you corporal is about your perverted concept of winning in the Russia-Ukraine war.

              • Ireneo,

                Did he just read the comments and someone said the Queen will live forever because she’s Reptilian?LOL!

              • I was only half listening when that comment came but I guess you are right. Well indeed Xiao has an audience that goes from intellectual to jejemon.

              • Micha,

                Save your power seeking for another day, Jesus. The Queen has just died. Show some respect.

              • Micha says:

                Jesus corporal, that’s why I’m staying away from monarchy bashing here for the moment and just concentrating on your perverted concept of “winning”.

              • Don’t even start bashing the Queen on her death day, Micha.

                go to your local parish and light a candle or something, pay homage.

              • Micha says:

                LOL, don’t tell me you’re also teary eyed like Chua, corporal C.

              • She answered only to God, Micha. not too many people you meet that answer only to God.

                And God loved her and her people loved her — including me.

                Fare thee well, my Queen…

              • Micha says:

                Yeah right corporal C, funny that by being an overzealous royalist, you’re also exposing the archaic stupidity of the divine right of kings.

              • You just said you weren’t gonna bash on the Queen, Micha.

                it’s too soon. Today we remember her. that’s all , Micha.

              • Micha says:

                Well, screw you corporal C, I’ve been asking you to just limit our exchanges over your “winning” obsession re: Russia-Ukraine war and you kept on exhorting about your royal fanaticism instead.

              • JoeAm says:

                It is actually proper to be respectful of the people who lost someone they cared about, if not the royal traditions.

              • JoeAm says:

                Proper meaning kind, or thoughtful, or compassionate.

              • Micha says:

                This particular thread was mainly the corporal boasting about his “winning” the debate over Russia-Ukraine war. If he wants to show reverence for his royal loss he could always start a new thread about it and stop deflecting the original topic on this one.

              • JoeAm says:

                Or he is sensitive to my remark that two elderly Americans bickering is not really the kind of discussion that fits the blog’s editorial thrust.

              • Micha says:

                Good to know he’s learning a lesson. Over obsession with winning an argument is not a productive endeavor.

              • Karl Garcia says:

                His gripe with you is for calling him lonely. I don’t know the context but I concluded it was for lonely soldier. But it could be for old too.

              • Micha,

                The royal custom is 10 days of mourning. Please let’s observe that for the Queen’s sake. This is no time for power seeking. But had the Queen been officiating I’m sure she too would’ve declared me as victorious, she was very much anti-Putin you know. though also acknowledged his pecs. The Queen being very keen on both ethics and aesthetics, Micha.

          • But back to my point:

            Joe: “We slip into the discussions as either a teacher or a student and exchange what we know, or the questions we have. The goal is to advance our understanding of things and search earnestly for solutions to problems. “

            That by definition is not a debate, Juan.

            • Juan Luna says:

              How so LCpl? You cannot dismiss that statement by just flailing your hands and say that is not a debate. You have to give your rationale why you think it is not.

              • There’s nothing about opposing points or oppositional, Juan!!!

                Its a non-zero sum game according to Joe, when debates are in fact zero sum games!

              • JoeAm says:

                A debate is a contest to find a winner, a discussion is an engagement to find agreement or discovery. It is a semantics point, a diversion from the subject of the blog, just LCX doing his trollish best to mess with your mind.

              • JoeAm says:

                The blog is about what motivates the speaker or writer in today’s mainstream and social media. It is about knowing the intent of the speaker/writer so we can better understand if the discussion or debate is or can be meaningful. LCX is not interested in that, but in being contrary.

              • “I’ve blocked LCX several times for his nonsense and tendency to dominate threads, a part of his power dynamic. We used to be well-read and had 10s of thousands of readers. “

                Joe, are you suggesting theres a cause and effect here, cuz I always thought my debates generate more readership not less, eg. my two Inday Sara articles.

                Juan, Joe of course is right about, carry on.

              • JoeAm says:

                No, you are a power seeker in a knowledge seeking forum. You drive readers away.

              • Do you have metrics you can share to support that, Joe. i’d be honestly interested. did the two Inday Sara articles spike up or down? I know you said Pinks were livid with those two.

              • JoeAm says:

                The Sara for President article had 2,029 reads, putting it at the low end of all blogs. Most recently are 4,000 to 6,000.

              • Juan Luna says:

                LCpl, I get it, you see debates as spectator sport where the ultimatum target is to win. But not all debates have that format. There are debates where rules are observed and judges decide who makes the best argument. That’s a formal debate. On this blog, we don’t have that. What we have here is an informal debate or discussion where can go on and on as long as we want to or the as long as the admin allows or we get tired.

                Debate is not really a sport because sports connotes physicality. Debate is more of a cerebral activity where you need logic, sound reasoning, philosophical background, at least, and dialectic capability, and so on.

                Through your expression of your thoughts about the issue, everyone now knows (or we already knew it) you have the obsession to winning and defeating the other side. It’s a good quality and technique, if I may say so. Could be that you have past training and experience in playing the game to win, period. The trouble is, you simply cannot do that here unless JoeAm change the rules and decides he will be the judge/executioner as to who wins in the debate and who loses.

                Honestly, though, I don’t see that coming.

              • JoeAm says:

                More likely, I get tired of his games and just block him again.

              • Juan,

                fair summation. What I’m actually envisioning is a bunch of people seated on cheap plastic stools, with several Red Horse grande bottles opened and its like 1 am in the morning any street Cebu or Manila, with shabu addicts coming and going (those are the Chinese trolls from Hainan island lurking) and Micha stands up or Juan stands up and proposes an issue, I (LCPL_X) either think theres a valid opposition or there isn’t.

                If there isn’t I post youtube videos for fun. like karl.

                If I see a valid defendable opposition, I also stand up Red Horse grande in hand and prosecute the validity of said opposition to whatever s being proposed. And its been like that ever since really, karl stands up with his Tanduay and says “fuck you, LCPL_X!!! ” and we proceed on. and on and on to the next subjects. We’re all Standbies.

                But I gotta tell you I know more about the Philippines now from being here than before, Ireneo is the one with his German crafted beer maybe cigar or pipe, correcting my understanding of culture and history, but the debate and discussions continue, on and on, and then NH stands up he drinks San Miguel light and shares numbers and figures and sometimes poetry, which I always misinterpret mainly because I envision NH as a pimp like w/ a chalice— one who’s been around the block.

                And Joe’s the sari sari store owner, and he’s the guy that says all you good for nothings pay your tab already and get out of here, my wife’s telling me to close down. Get out, tomorrow ‘s another day. And as I’m walking home with all the street dogs barking, with two humping away, Joe says, “LCPL_X don’t get EJK’ed , you’re tab’s still open!”. And that’s how Joe expresses his affinity towards me, Juan.


                kb is MRP.

                And you

                of course are Primer.

                But I cannot prove any of it.

              • “The Sara for President article had 2,029 reads, putting it at the low end of all blogs.”

                and half of that was probably me clicking on it, Joe. oh well. thanks.

              • JoeAm says:

                Readership is not always the important measure here. The article stands as proof positive that the blog is not a yellow political forum. My article on Isko Moreno did the same thing. If we lost yellow or pink followers then it is they who are the real power-seekers, not knowledge-seekers, and I shrug. I somehow wish we could gain more relevance as a Filipino blog, sharp and focused on current events, but that requires more effort than I am willing to give. So we are a cigar club, or a bunch of guys under the mango tree sipping tuba, and we learn different things at different times, each to himself.

      • JoeAm says:

        Juan, Thank you.

        • Juan Luna says:

          Same here for maintaining a space that so far continues to play within the boundaries that you have set. And that is not an easy job.

  3. NHerrera says:

    This is sort of a break early in the blog discussions. It is a word or concept association — based on the word/ concept debate in the blog’s title. If our editor permits, I will post the following.

    In reply to a tweet from Joeam, I responded with a tweet containing the phrase is a puzzlement.

    If you are old enough to have seen the American musical film or have later seen “The King and I” you know what I mean. Here is King Mongkut played by Yul Brynner, one of my favorite actors, singing with lyrics — where the King debates with himself:

    When I was a boy, world was better spot
    What was so was so, what was not was not
    Now, I am a man, world have changed a lot
    Some things nearly so, others nearly not

    There are times I almost think
    I am not sure of what I absolutely know
    Very often find confusion
    In conclusion, I concluded long ago

    In my head are many facts
    That, as a student, I have studied to procure
    In my head are many facts
    Of which I wish I was more certain, I was sure
    Is a puzzlement

    What to tell growing son?
    What for instance, shall I say to him of women?
    Shall I educate him on the ancient lines?
    Shall I tell the boy as far as he is able
    To respect his wives and love his concubines?

    Shall I tell him everyone is like the other
    And the better of the two is really neither?
    If I tell him this I think he won’t believe it
    And I nearly think that I don’t believe it either

    When my father was a king
    He was a king who knew exactly what he knew
    And his brain was not a thing
    Forever swinging to and fro and fro and to

    Shall I, then be like my father
    And be willfully unmovable and strong?
    Or is it better to be right?
    Or am I right when I believe I may be wrong?

    Shall I join with other nations in alliance?
    If allies are weak, am I not best alone?
    If allies are strong with power to protect me
    Might they not protect me out of all I own?

    Is a danger to be trusting one another
    One will seldom want to do what other wishes
    But unless someday somebody trust somebody
    There’ll be nothing left on earth excepting fishes

    There are times I almost think
    Nobody sure of what he absolutely know
    Everybody find confusion
    In conclusion, he concluded long ago

    And it puzzle me to learn
    That tho’ a man may be in doubt of what he know
    Very quickly he will fight
    He’ll fight to prove that what he does not know is so

    Oh, sometimes I think that people going mad
    Ah, sometimes I think that people not so bad
    But not matter what I think, I must go on living life
    As leader of my kingdom, I must go forth
    Be father to my children and husband to each wife
    Etcetera, etcetera and so forth

    If my Lord in Heaven Buddha, show the way
    Everyday I try to live another day
    If my Lord in Heaven Buddha, show the way
    Everyday I do my best for one more day

    But is a puzzlement
    Do our leaders debate with themselves like that? I suggest they read the lyrics sometimes.

    By the way, Joe, the blog’s picture going with the title is quite apt for the current debate style, figuratively if not literally.

  4. Juan Luna says:

    Pronto, I have to confess, I’m here primarily to discuss and explore issues of interest and, if it so happen someone disagrees with me, I argue my point in an informal debate setting. Yes, I criticize political personalities and groups on issues, sometimes harshly, and oftentimes I get rap over the knuckles. Right or wrong that is how the game is played.

    Now, that everybody is aware of where my understanding of the topic (debate) is, I’m putting that aside and go right into the subject matter.

    The author’s attempt to assert his understanding of what a debate should be and sharing his thinking of how we can improve or upgrade the kind of interaction we’re having on this blog is spot on. I cannot agree more. On the other hand, I’m interested on how do we go about the “we should identify the malicious power-seekers and shut them down” line. How do we execute it or will there be a new guidelines for everybody to abide with? I get it, fake news and trolls abound and we should be aware and wary about it. If the call admonishes us to prepare for the worst, I’m in.

    As far as I know, I don’t see serious trolls or fake news going around this blog. There may be some irritants or annoying comments/posts that really don’t tackle the issue; instances of some members trying to load their posts with too much information/graphics, etc. that tend to hijack the discussion to some other areas is also a regular thing here. There are times also that members get to square off endlessly to the point they run around in circles just to drive their respective points.

    But overall I think we’re all fine here.

    Why did I say that? Well, this blog maintains a continuous open space to discuss relevant issues without too much dirt being thrown around. Not much or non-existence of personal attacks, for me, makes this blog cool. I’m not saying this is a perfect place. I’m just saying that this is a fine place to be with to share knowledge and info and at the same time sharpen your capability to communicate. And learn, too.

    • I concur, i think that has to do a lot with karl, posting videos like the one yesterday, of “What are you sinking?” LOL!

    • JoeAm says:

      @Juan, Trolls generally leave me alone on FB and Twitter, too. They stand out like sore thumbs when they do appear, so I block and hide or delete their commentary. If I don’t know if they are trolls, I go to their profiles and scan a few comments and it becomes clear. LCX is the blog’s official Troll in Chief. He has no political portfolio as far as I can tell, but pushes contrary ideas and then enjoys defending them, for the satisfaction of winning the debate. In that sense, he is a power-seeker, but will argue that is how to get to knowledge. More often, it gets to anger and confusion.

      The late great Edgar Lores, the intellectual heart of this blog at its peak, would not engage with LCX. I’ve blocked LCX several times for his nonsense and tendency to dominate threads, a part of his power dynamic. We used to be well-read and had 10s of thousands of readers. Now it’s more like a cigar club of a few old people sitting around chattering over a glass if wine, with daily readership in the 100s, or a thousand on a good day.

      The relevance to the Filipino audience gets less and less, well there is not much attraction to seeing two old Americans like LCX and Micha clattering their false teeth to try to win unwinnable arguments about monetary matters. I keep the blog going for its occasional relevance, to hear from old friends, and the ideas I can pick up to share on Twitter. Twitter is now my main medium.

      • I’m not that old, Joe!!!

      • Juan Luna says:

        “…well there is not much attraction to seeing two old Americans like LCX and Micha clattering their false teeth to try to win unwinnable arguments about monetary matters.” – JoeAm
        – – – – – –
        That really made me laugh hard! Excuse me, it’s not because of LCpl and Micha but the description that was made. I feel the weight in the emotional expression of JoeAm considering that I was not an exemption when it comes to giving him headache, lol!

        Duly noted, though, is the observation about LCpl. The man loves to argue, within the lane or outside of it. While JoeAm unleashed the heavy description let me balance it with my light portrayal of LCpl. He’s a provocateur bordering on being a disrupter. Sometimes he makes sense especially when expressing his thoughts. If the communication is one way, that is, he’s sharing his thought, it’s fine. The problem starts when he engages, when he enters into a two-way traffic zone, the itch to win, at all costs, starts to emerge.

        But seriously, JoeAm’s remonstrance made me think that with what we have right now, we really have to heed the “What can we do differently?” part of his article.

        • JoeAm says:

          Well, I don’t know how old you are, or I mighta included you, haha!

          • Juan Luna says:

            If 64 is old, well, I’m old. But honestly, I don’t feel it, the age. My memory maybe spotty at times but overall it can still remember the relevant ones.

            To bounce back to the issue at hand and speaking as a senior, being a veteran (not bragging here!) of blogs and on-line debates I reached a stage where I make it a point to use the brakes when I feel like it. In the olden days, when sky is the limit, meaning my mind is so fertile I can take either side of the issue and make a decent go of it, I’ve written and said everything, dirty, clean, nonsense, bias, fair, what have you; been warned, suspended and banned a couple of times. And I have the scars to show for it.

            But now I’ve reached the stage where I can debate and at the same time listen to the other side without increasing the temperature. And I ascribed that not really to age but to experience. When you experienced you learned, and when you learned you tend to utilize the control part in your brain.

            What I can credit on my age though is the endurance part. Before, like a boxer, I can go 15 rounds against anybody everyday, if necessary. But now, I’m just good for a 4 to 5 rounds scrimmage. But take note, 4 or 5 rounds like what Hagler and Hearns had in their first fight, lol!

            • Karl Garcia says:

              Don’t worry Juan I know Lcx is wrong when he called you Primer. I won’t ask ever again of you are jameboy. But I have to say that you coment like a diplomat recently.

              Me too no intention of bragging when I said I had been commenting since 2005, it is what it is so they say, but not that old I will just turn 52 next week.

              • Karl Garcia says:

                I will call Juan JL from now on. Like KB,NH,LCX so on and so forth.

              • Juan Luna says:

                “And you
                of course are Primer.” – LCpl
                – – – – –
                Karl, you are correct, I don’t know why LCpl calls me Primer. And to your credit I have to confess I used to be ‘jameboy’. But I have to admit I forgot all about being jameboy. I cannot remember the issues I tackled or debated with other people. I so forgotten being jameboy that only you made me realized that, yes, I remember utilizing a ‘jameboy’ handle a long time ago. Without you reminding me I would not have look back and think of ‘jameboy’.

                Now, I’m curious, how come you still remember those things? Did I offend you back when I was still ‘jameboy’? If so, I apologize, man.

              • Karl Garcia says:

                Manganganak to I comapred jameboy to parekoy.

                Full stop pero no offense done and taken

              • Karl Garcia says:

                common denominator

                Johnny Lin

              • Karl Garcia says:

                jameboy says:
                July 17, 2015 at 8:09 pm
                PNoy maybe in a dilemma now not because he has to choose between two candidates to-be having exact credentials and qualification for the presidency. Truth is, what brought the dilemma was mainly the popularity of Grace Poe.

                I don’t agree to the idea that winnability and acceptability to the people are two most important factors to be considered on a candidate. That maybe important for those who are after self-promotion or with self-interest. People whose sole motivation is to gain advantage and grab the opportunity when it presents itself often put more dent on winnability and acceptance for that is why they are in the game in the first place. Not so with people whose interest goes beyond their persons. Not so with people whose focus is not really what they are they to the public service but what they can do to enhance and improve it. To those people it is what they can offer and their capability to deliver based on knowledge and experience is what is most important because it is geared towards service to others.

                I’m aghast to learn that capability, honesty, integrity and experience, to some people, only comes in second in importance to winnability and acceptability. Why, the Binays possess the so-called “two most important” factors! Terrible!

                “Opportunity knocks only once. Poe is the right person in all parameters.” – Johnny Lin
                Very true. That is why when opportunity presents itself one should not waste time thinking of other things. When the opportunity knocks open the door and ask no questions. Just grab it and enjoy the personal amenities, power and authority and the perks that it will bring to you and your ego. Opportunity maybe blinding but to hell with those whose vision and wisdom is different from you. They’re not the ‘chosen one’ therefore they hush.The opportunity is yours and yours ALONE. Just always remember, it only knock once.

                What? What about the country? Don’t know ’bout that. 😎

                Johnny lin says:
                July 18, 2015 at 1:58 am
                Respect your opinion.hope you’re interpretation was not based “out of context”. I’m talking about election of a candidate looking at the subjective point of view. Comparing the two candidates PnoY had to choose. That is where winnable and acceptability come into play.

                I’m a general sense there better capable than Poe or Roxas Duterte or Binay to become our president. Yet, nobody is on top of the list for election because they don’t have winnability and acceptable factors, thereby good qualities become secondary factors in terms of beingelected.

                A summa cm laude astronomy graduate doesn’t have he guarantee to win the Nobel prize. More often he ends up teaching. Not different from winnability and acceptability in choosing tge best electable candidate.

                Johnny lin says:
                July 18, 2015 at 2:09 am
                Again, talking about about the present cast of characters, Binay, Roxas and Poe. Who should PNOY endorse? To PNoy, Poe has the best opportunity to win and continue his Daan Matuwid. Roxas would be the most ideal but could he win?

                During the 2012 US President cmpaiign, Governor Christie was the clamor of many Republicans to run. Christie was undecisive and declined. That was his opportunity of a lifetme. He passed. Now, he threw his hat in the GOP presidential run; he is deep in the bottom of preferable candidates.

                lesson for Poe in politics 101!
                I got from jameboy=======
                and JL you do that to and the emoticon with shades

                as to parekoy vs JL the other JL they always cross path then a swordfight ensues

              • Juan Luna says:

                Wow, you’re keeping records of the debates/conversation?! Unbelievable! Either you’re a court stenographer or a private investigator. I take my hat off to you, Karl!

              • isk says:

                @ Juan
                KG is TSOH librarian.

              • Karl Garcia says:

                yes isk and i also visited the raissa robles library circa 2015 and 2016.
                I just remember stuff, I mostly remember those that left a mark both the powerful style and knowledge seeking style. I will continue to learn @JL ok we carry on with the next article or the next comment.

              • How did you guess jameboy , karl, i would have never thought, cuz I remember jameboy being more fiery not diplomatic, that’s why I thought Primer, because there was air of pedanticism along with the diplomacy, and I remember Primer doing this but more on “I know how the cookie is baked” (always hinting theres more in his kimono he’s safe guarding, eg. You peasants don’t know how the cookie is baked, etc.).


              • “Unbelievable! Either you’re a court stenographer or a private investigator. I take my hat off to you, Karl!”

                Sometimes I think karl has some proprietary AI , but he’s collated and archived a lot of stuff, Juan.

              • karl,

                I’m looking at your methodology in identifying Juan with jameboy, but are you saying it was just the equal signs that outed him? I’m reading and comparing and contrasting, and I would’ve never seen it.I must know your process karl.

                I’m looking for syntax and semantics markers and nothing out of the ordinary, that jumps out, so are you really saying it all came down to symbolics?!!! equal signs?!!! i guess that falls under pragmatics (happy faces and what nots).

                Still very impressive.

              • I’m just now hearing Queen Elizabeth II is gonna bite the big one soon, I hope the British monarchy take up Indian funeral pyre customs and then toss into the fire Prince Charles w/ his mum. just my 2 centavos.

                Then shout, the King is dead; Long live the King!!!

              • JoeAm says:

                William is after Charles? They both seem a tad dorky to me. I’m a fan of Harry myself, but don’t have a vote. Kings should be manly and suave, not dorky.

              • I agree but Harry’s California royalty now, Joe, his realm is the rolling hills of Montecito near Santa Barbara.

                Though if you toss William in the pyre, Harry might have a chance, but I think the English would be offended, there’s a line.

                they’ll toss Charles into the pyre and do three cheers, but William in the pyre for Harry. that’s going too far now I think.

              • Her lady in waiting once answered a letter he sent to Her Majesty.

                Seems he wrote her something about Rizal in England.


              • Actually, my bad, Harry would first have to kill his two nephews and niece, or just do a three for one take em on a drive to Loch Ness.


            • Karl Garcia says:

              Hagler – Hearns2
              The second fight was said to be the best three rounds in history.
              That is a good proposition for LCX hehe.
              If I muster enough brain power and not my corn power I could be game. A short three rounds then I get knocked out.

  5. JoeAm says:

    Amusing how life collides with itself. I’m a huge Michael Connelly fan. Met him once at a writer’s forum in Pasadena. He writes mysteries set in Los Angeles, and his protagonist in a lot of stories is Detective Harry Bosch.

    I’m currently reading the book “Two kinds of truth”. In the book, Bosch has been accused by a murderer of planting evidence. Here’s the excerpt from the book, which is a short version of my blog post.

    What Kennedy, Soto, and Tapscott could not know was what Bosch knew in the deepest, darkest part of his heart. That he had not planted evidence against Borders. That he had never planted evidence against any suspect or adversary in his life. And this knowledge gave Bosch an affirming jolt of adrenaline and purpose. He knew there were two kinds of truth in this world. The truth that was the unalterable bedrock of one’s life and mission. And the other, malleable truth of politicians, charlatans, corrupt lawyers, and their clients, bent and molded to serve whatever purpose was at hand.

    • Karl Garcia says:

      “The two unrelated cases wind around each other like strands of barbed wire. Along the way Bosch discovers that there are two kinds of truth: the kind that sets you free and the kind that leaves you buried in darkness.”

      See LCX strands of barbed wire could not have prevented the mob….

      Another book on my to read list.

      • JoeAm says:

        Connelly has built up quite a library. Amazon sorts them into series, the Bosch books, Lincoln Lawyer, and others. I like courtroom dramas so shade to the Mickey Haller (Lincoln Lawyer) series. And, of course, John Grisham. Haller is Bosch’s half brother. One tries to jail crooks and the other defends them. So there is tension there. The two often drift into or out of cases where the other has the lead. Haller has just popped into this book. I’m now reading fast, haha.

        • Karl Garcia says:

          Haha. What is more challenging is Bosch is into cold cases. You have to have a forensics team in addition to detective skills, ala Bones tv series.
          I will see if that is the case.
          As to defense lawyers, Pacino did it best when at the end he told his client who happens to be a judge that he will be after him next then he quit and it would really be justice for all.

            • “The two unrelated cases wind around each other like strands of barbed wire. Along the way Bosch discovers that there are two kinds of truth: the kind that sets you free and the kind that leaves you buried in darkness.”

              See LCX strands of barbed wire could not have prevented the mob….


              LOL! that one’s better than “What are you sinking?”. LOL! original extrapolation, love it.

              But seriously, this is Gettier problem stuff, Joe. one man’s trash is another man’s treasure sorta deal. Shifting thru both free and darkness stuff is fun, for some not fun.

        • NHerrera says:

          I am a fan too — a bird of a feather here. I collected and read those Connelly books (Bosch and Haller) and John Grisham’s that I can find in Metro Manila “Booksale” shops, poor that I am.

  6. Karl Garcia says:

    Good that I read your brochures before buying. Thanks for the compliment glad you loved it.

  7. NHerrera says:

    Karl, you are a great asset here in The Society of Honor. Those of you who don’t agree, don’t raise your hands. Honestly the first is said in all seriousness, the second as a joke.

  8. OT but related to power seeking and knowledge seeking, because U2s were both, except for the one piloted by Gary Powers maybe. but ones flying around today!

  9. Karl Garcia says:

    LCpl_X (@LCpl_X) says:
    September 8, 2022 at 9:29 pm
    How did you guess jameboy , karl, i would have never thought, cuz I remember jameboy being more fiery not diplomatic, that’s why I thought Primer, because there was air of pedanticism along with the diplomacy, and I remember Primer doing this but more on “I know how the cookie is baked” (always hinting theres more in his kimono he’s safe guarding, eg. You peasants don’t know how the cookie is baked, etc

    First it was from a question by Mary Grace Gonzales to jameboy:
    Are you parekoy in diguise? then jameboy denied it so cool.

    I wondered why then enter Johnny LIn
    I know him from CPM with his bloody swordfights with parekoy inclusdng to heavy accusations and borderline slander.

    Since here jameboy is parekoy light still fierry though but complies with TSOH policies …he disagrees with JL through sarcasm by saying I agree but actually he did not.

    I still do not know Jameboy chose the same initials as his nemesis Johnny Lin: JL and even have same first name John is Juan in Spanish.

    • Karl Garcia says:

      As To Primer: too much info time
      from our various interactions since he knew my dad

      He was a Naval officer worked under JPE in DND then eventually worked for different principals in congress like in a way I did sort of. I was just an alalay of my dad in Congress and the senate.

      We just had something in common so we shared a bit.

      Then h

      • He did keep on sharing that he knew how the levers of power worked in the Philippines, but i remember we did n’t really glean anything useful from it. He just kept on mentioning it.

        • This was a fun trip down memory lane, karl. I think i see what you’re talking about now:

          • Karl Garcia says:

            Edgar can’t get Primer’s drift too even with his excellent parsing skills.

          • Karl Garcia says:

            This is another one the comments are all about Primer.
            I loved the moment when mary quipped that If primer is banned we still have jameboy and with jameboy raising his hand and saying present ma’am(joke)


              • Karl Garcia says:

                Elementary my dear @ LCX not elementary school.


              • I don’t have Linkedin, so can’t log in and cannot see, but are you saying that’s Primer’s real name not a pseudonym? I assumed it was a pseudonym, because the name Primer is just too cool— like Optimus Primer.

                but now Googling that as full name, there’s a ton of stuff actually, this one was interesting: thanks!

              • “Dr. Luna inquired whether I had myself exposed to the female dormitory and what programs are implemented compared with the male dormitory. At best, this author could simply point out his reservation having to go to the female dormitory after knowledge that the same set up exists there as it does in the male dormitory, namely: there are all of six cells with the same number of beds and comfort room and in each.”

                Click to access Paper_Pagunuran.pdf

                He should a contacted me when doing this Doctoral candidate paper, karl.

                I could’ve told him that there’s more lesbian action among female prisoners, with butch lesbians rising to the top of the food chain, and girlie females at the bottom, but in fairness to the women prisoners theres less violence. they tend to be more cooperative, where dudes in prison are too, but order is gotten thru violence, whereas order amongst women prisoners is gotten more thru pleasure like orgies or one on one tongue lashing (as MRP use to say, LOL!).

                the habits and tendencies of male and female being not so different, I’m confident this is also the same or similar in Philippine setting, karl. maybe more malnourishment probably affects the consistency and quantity of libido induced behaviors, but the intent would be the same i surmise. same same sociologically speaking, karl.

                There was this recent case in a California prison , karl:


                “California’s prison system is endangering women by housing biological men in female prisons, according to a lawsuit filed Wednesday.

                The California Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation is violating the First, Eighth, and 14th amendments through a new state law, the lawsuit says, arguing that the law “cannot be applied in any manner that avoids violating the federal and state constitutional rights of the plaintiffs.”

                According to the suit, plaintiff Krystal Gonzalez says she was sexually assaulted by a biological male transferred to Central California Women’s Facility under the law, known as the Transgender Respect, Agency, and Dignity Act, or SB 132. When Gonzalez filed a grievance and requested to be housed away from men, the suit says, the prison’s response referred to her alleged attacker as a “transgender woman with a penis.”

                “Krystal does not believe that women have penises,” the lawsuit says, “and the psychological distress caused by her assault is exacerbated by the prison’s refusal to acknowledge the sex of her perpetrator.”


                I think that’s more she said, she said, karl, girl fight so girl doesn’t like new male-girl so she gets her/him kicked out and back to men’s prison.

                But the issue that’s really interesting, karl, and has already transpired is this:

                Women represented in the lawsuit reportedly have experienced “fear, anxiety, depression, and/or post-traumatic stress disorder” as a direct result of housing, dining, showering, and recreating with biological men, the suit says.

                Some of the incarcerated women are having sexual relations with biological males in the California Institution for Women and the Central California Women’s Facility, the lawsuit says, “creating a risk of pregnancy and the health and emotional complications from becoming pregnant while incarcerated.”

                “Some incarcerated women sharing a cell with a man, along with other women, now make sleep schedules among the women so that a woman is on watch to try to prevent rape by the male cellmate,” the lawsuit says, adding that prison staff in women’s prisons now are “armed with new, stronger pepper spray and riot control measures in anticipation that men are stronger and more violent than women.”


                Interestingly, karl, there’s “rape” involved unwanted penis and vagina contact like whats suggested above, but not as you may have thought. its actually the women raping the men with penises so they get pregnant thus get cush comfy housing situation as a pregnant woman. LOL! Primer should’ve included that in his doctoral thesis , karl!!! LOL!

              • Karl Garcia says:

                Dr. Pagunuran should have consulted with THE google phd hehehe.

                Man, Micha is right to mention the word perverted.
                LGBT sex crimes are no laughing matters and so are other sex crimes.
                There are boundaries to jokes. And do not tell people they are hypocrites if they admonish you if ever, like me on that milking a cow poem I posted in response to you regarding mango avenue as if it was the only prominent place that you have been to, we admonish because we give a shit and please do give a damn.

              • The transgendered male who transfered to a women’s prison because that’s the gender they identify with and then gets “raped” by women, karl.

                That is comedy gold right there. a dude getting raped by women, heck that’s some Greek comedy slash tragedy right there!!!

                But I am not laughing to the scenario where the “transgender” actually a dude pretending to be “transgender” using as loophole this new wokism in prison,

                get to rape women prisoners. that happens, and that should be obvious, dudes pretending to be dudettes to get with other dudettes is as old as time,


                And why male s and females are separated in the first place, only recently is there policy to accommodated gender identity, and of course criminals will exploit. Go figure!

                Thus the act is comedy and the policy is comedy, karl. All comedy. LOL!

              • Karl Garcia says:

                The first time I was schooled by Optimus was when I asked about what you call sock puppeting, man he used another name : Karl Popper before Nielsky
                I asked if he was like a contrarian or something. I told him to go with Warren Buffet for his contrarian forecasting. Unintentional redirection.

                He was a colleague of Popoy, Neo, Andy in UP NCPAG they are both mind blowers.

              • Karl Garcia says:

                sock puppeting is par of the course in socmed discussions to the expense of people’s vertigo. In game of thrones and Thor, sock puppeting was easier to follow than gifted people like Primer and Andy.
                NCPAG is the UP school for public admin and governance.

              • Oh is this the reason MRP really hated UP, this sub department, and not really UP as a whole, karl?

              • Karl Garcia says:


  10. @LCPL_X: re wind power etc. there is actually a German village that is completely self-sufficient when it comes to energy and the docu shows how wind turbines are part of it:

  11. Karl Garcia says:

    I wanted to say that Harry has to wait forever, but the line of succession was already posted.

    • Karl Garcia says:

      God bless the Queen!

    • kasambahay says:

      apparently, harry arrived in balmoral roughly an hour and a half (90 minutes) after the queen died, sans the wife.

      teddy locsin, our uk ambassador, may have said something about the queen’s passing, but, I probly miss it.

      • JoeAm says:

        He did a four tweet thread which can be found on his home page, plus retweeting the rainbow photo and a couple of other posts.

        • kasambahay says:

          thanks, I supposed teddy locsin’s new job is easier now than the previous where he was constantly on tenterhooks and 2nd guessing china.

          • Karl Garcia says:

            Not so fast don’t forget that he will do the thesis of BBM to complete his academic requirements and he will participate in renaming the Buckingham palace to Camilla Homes with Manny Villar as back channel.

            • kasambahay says:

              aha, the new ambassador’s job still entails 2nd guessing, not with china this time, but mayhap with the president that sometimes forgot what documents he had signed, what he had said, and who had he spoken with, lol!

              anyhow, the new ambassador’s twitter entry re the passing of the queen whose realm he would soon be residing, was uberly economical with words! made me think tuloy, the new ambassador was experiencing word famine!

              • JoeAm says:

                I’m guessing he will be less abrasive in the UK where influentials may be reading.

              • Karl Garcia says:

                Still testing the waters, first week jitters, even for a TBL that event is too much too soon as an ambassador. Plus Joe’s view that he will be less abrasive in the UK where more people mean what they say and say what they mean verbally and in writing.

              • NHerrera says:

                It seems to me that among the current events to watch from here on are current events plus — that is, events including the “less abrasive” version of TBL. Please share naman with this google-lazy octogenarian. 🤣

              • Karl Garcia says:

                it would be easier to check his account now than later when the mourning ends, but the abrasiveness or non abrasiveness still remains to be seen.

              • kasambahay says:

                the ambassador’s abrasiveness could serve him well once the brits start asking about the infamous shoe collection, lol! I am presuming by then the ambassador already have a few lines prepared and wont be caught flat out for lack of better words.

                and to think the ambassador already have a foot in the backdoor and once played host to irish delegation among them the irish ambassador, and took them sightseeing sa intramuros few months ago and before the death of queen elizabeth II.

                who knows? maybe now the irish will repay the ambassador’s kindness and invite him to king charles the 3d’s coronation! but 1st, the ambassador must make a bold move and personally congratulate his irish contact, they have a new king and also condole with them for the loss of their queen. if the irish make a positive move towards the ambassador, then our ambassador is in! his prize for seizing the day!

                but, if the ambassador think signing the condolence book is enough and that’s it! he does not know what he is missing!

              • Karl Garcia says:

                Don’t worry as I type this he already contacted Bono of U2 his fellow ambassador.

  12. Karl Garcia says:

    Memes of the longetivity of Enrile is spreading again.

  13. So the Prince of Oxford, the Duchess of New York, Prince Charming in Congress, the Duke of Leyte and Duke Simon of Batac have signed their condolences for Her Majesty the Queen.

  14. Karl Garcia says:

    I guess this would not be in bad taste
    There are rumors that Camilla wants to rename The Buckingham Palace to: Camilla Homes and she just asked permission to Manny Villar if he would allow it.

  15. sonny says:

    Joe, this topic is like Nile delta. 🙂 🙂

    • JoeAm says:

      Full of crocodiles? haha!

      • I thought of many branches. OK we’d have that in the Mississippi delta also, but there we would at least have Elvis and not just Lance.

          • So Lance sits there and sends each of us who passes by into another branch in the river. No wonder we are so lost.

            • I see the map and recognize that somewhere to the east confluences are the realm of pre- and pro-biotics and good gut health, Ireneo.

              This mongo seeds is very good, just don’t add pork or chicharron in it, mongo beans and say spinach is a better combination (spinach is rich in Vit D, karl and remember to take with fish oil, oil soluble then get some sun to activate).

            • Karl Garcia says:

              I have a physician who sort of hates me when I talk of what I read somewhere especially when it is about alternatives.

              Paraphrased answer: Di totoo yan bakit marunong ka pa saakin ang hirap kaya mag-aral.

              That is not true, why should you know any better, it took me years to finish medical school.
              and one topic was Ampalaya or bitter melon gourd.

              • Indian doctors are notorious for doing that here, karl. Most doctors here especially ones born here are very collaborative, they’ll even Google what you say right then and there, and say, let me do some more reading on this and i’ll get back to you soon.

                None of that , Me doctor me know, you no doctor you no know.

                But we do have Indians from India most who work as family/primary physicians at kaiser permanent hospitals that treat patients thus, like they are still in the 3rd world and their patients are dumb commoners, and they usually get a wake up call.

                Ampalaya if i remember correctly is rich in iron thus the bitter taste and iron is best absorb with Vit C. fuck your doctor, karl, get a younger one that will collaborate with you. Ask her about turmeric. you take that with black pepper for better absorbition.

                Sadly diet does not figure in in modern medicine its about this drug and that drug, and soon enough you’re all drugged out, karl. careful with that too, its the food that’s the answer karl. maybe talk to a dietician then. or arbolario there.

              • Karl Garcia says:

                When Elvis, Memphis and King is mentioned all I can think of is Jerry the King Lawler. Never knew you wrestled LCX.

      • sonny says:

        🙂 Haha indeed, Joe. That part of the Nile image is undeniable from source to delta. Either boon or bane to humans & other living creatures the duality is inexorable: the futility of debating power vs learning; Nile’s crocodiles vs Pharaoh’s abundant agriculture

    • sonny says:

      Sang-ayon ako sa kabuuan ng sagot ni Xiao tungkol sa katatagang idinulot ni Queen Elizabeth sa pagkakaisa ng Bayang Britannia sa mga pagsubok na dinanas nila sa panahon (70 taon) ng Reyna Isabel.

    • kasambahay says:

      estados unidos must be royalist too, the flag at the white house is in half mast.

      and at one stage, a european paparazzi who had gotten the picture of the late princess diana said the money he got from the picture was enough to pay a year of his kid’s expenses in college! as well, magazines who have royals on their covers reported selling more magazines and got higher readership rating mainly because of the popularity of royals.

      so, if xiao is royalist, it could well mean he has popular good taste and admiring the queen and britain is maybe just a reflection of the feeling of many filipinos here and abroad. some filipinos have also meet the british monarch in person and received parangal, filipino health care workers some of them.

  16. Juan Luna says:

    “I’ve observed that there are two debate styles on social media and in the bigger world and it is good to know which arena you are in.

    Let me call the two different styles “knowledge-seeking” and “power-seeking”. – JoeAm
    – – – – – – –
    While I do subscribe to the idea that interaction by way of debate, discussion or whatever form it takes to share and extend one’s knowledge and information may take the form of styles described above, I am of the opinion also that both kinds of ‘seeking’ styles, knowledge and power, are not necessarily independent of each other; they are, in fact, intertwined most of the time, in most people.

    In a formal debate, everybody gets to be in a knowledge-seeking zone because the protagonists gets to outdo each other with an array of info (facts, figures, data, etc.) that is equitable to doing research on real time. And while the audience savor and avail themselves of the display of intellectual superiority the debaters/participants, in their desire to impose their power against the adversary, bring to bear their respective strength, preparation and perspicacity to better the other side.

    As an example, in my observation, LCpl, in fairness, possesses both styles of argumentation/debate. He can be very entertaining and informative when he is in the zone of sharing. The way he crafts his wordings and the picturesque representation of what he is conveying, with or without humor, I must admit, sometimes shows pedagogic skills.

    Unfortunately, just like the rest of us, he is not perfect. While he thinks on the level of ‘knowledge-seeking’ style, when seizing up a subject matter, his approach or outward reach in connecting with he other side, frequently with opposing ones, tends to be combative (power-seeking) in nature as can be gleaned on this line he wrote about this article,

    “…the point of debate is to clobber the other side…” – LCpl

    The serenity within tends to be put in shambles every time there is an opposing view colliding with his thoughts and it forces him to fire slipshod statements bordering in banality. His desire to defeat and get the win and at the same time be informative gets muddled as he wade himself into victory. I say that because most often he was the one declaring who the winner is in debates where he participates.


    • Juan, it sounds like you’re describing me as Magellan here.

      But honestly, I have to officiate because no ones volunteering, but edgar use to do so, here:

      I do ascribe to preponderance of valid evidence as metrics to winnability and winning. Do you teach a college level class by the way? How do you ascertain a win?

      • Karl Garcia says:

        Don’t be sensitive he also said you teach by being pedagogical.
        If we are slower in googling we lost?
        man I am runner up when it comes to googling here and they call me the librarian because I am second to one LCx
        There I am silver and you are gold.

        TSOH after Silver age and golden age

        When the Spanish mined most silver in Latin America they struck Gold somewhere in CA… Enter the golden era, but golden standard is passe so enter Bretton woods, then IMF and WB then…….came the neolib policies then MMT then CBDC and the winner is: LCX hoorah hoorah.

      • Oh we have 2 arguments ready! thanks , karl.

        The soda vs. beer is a good one.

        But the LCPL_X has no heart debate is even better because its relevant to the blog and actually tackles intent in debates. both examples of power seeking and knowledge seeking at heart is intent. and unlike Joe, I will conclude that both “styles” end up in discovery.

        So soda vs. beer first. here context: (but I think the first mention was of a black mom i saw feeding her black infant coke at LA Union Station, probably in a thread prior to the above linked).

        First as Juan would say lets get common sense out of the way, of course i’m not condoning feeding your baby beer, I’m simply stating that between beer and soda, go with beer. sugar vs. carbo/protein better than just sugar.

        but if you’re a mother and don’t have milk, go to a mother and child place, food bank (or milk banks) and get free milk, even other mothers have come up with a milk bank for mothers that need mothers milk, lots of options, not sure though if its available in the Philippines. but over here, there’s no reason to be feeding babies soda or beer. none.

        the proposition is simple : soda better than beer, if those were your only choices.

        And this is based on what we know of beer and medieval Europe and to this day how Europeans drink wine and beer together with their kids— i’m sure nowadays not babies though. but its easy to extrapolate that they in history if no choice of other milk would’ve chosen to feed their babies beer too, due to said affinity.

        Then most recently, WWII Philippines it was palm wine. I must’ve heard from ten or so WWII Filipinos babies, Filipinos who were babies during WWII when milk was scarce and mothers had died, that instead of water (which like medieval Europe wasn’t sanitary) they opted to feed their infants palm wine. granted thats when your choices are dim.

        So in history we can say that babies have been feed beer or palm wine in lieu of milk and/or clean water. this is easily replicatable , to test my claim you simply have to get near 1950s born, or actual WWII Filipinos, ask if this did occur, where babies were fed drank palm wine.

        then the kicker is to ask if there were long term side effects, or did said babies become mentally retarded or die early, or never matured mentally. The sample that I talked to were productive citizens, albeit retired then but were productive.

        The opposite are soda babies, and I don’t doubt kb that yayas there would’ve fed babies sodas, because sodas were marketed from the very beginning as elixirs, the sugar in sodas early on was simply as Mary Poppins says to make the medicine go down, coca was from cocaine and kola was from the kola nut in Africa both were medicinal.

        But today we now know that soda is just sugar water and preservatives (and very dangerous ones at that).

        So in conclusion, between soda and beer, you’re better off feeding your infant beer, karl. Since the production of beer is age old, while the production of soda is not as elixier anylonger but just pure sugar and preservatives. thus totally different one being more unhealthy than the other.

        that should sufficiently cover the soda vs. beer debate, but I of course welcome rebuttle on the topic.

        (cont’d: Does LCPL_X have a heart and does LCPL_X love Filipinos… and what does that have to do with LCPL_X wanting nay needing to win in debates? )

    • Firstly, I am not Primer precisely because I would use Primer as nom de guerre if I were Primer, Primer being about the coolest name I’ve ever come across. In addition, I think it was Ireneo early on that said he has vetted me and I’m the real thing. Plus Joe can attest that since I don’t use VPN that I’ve been on the same IP or same proximity wise address fromt he git go. And Primer’s in the Philippines. so that should cover that.

      Now for the question of LCPL_X’s heart. I would say that its big like Thanos and the Eternals (but more on Ikaris and siding with the Celestials). that means that my ethics are wider in scope and not specific or focused, but as I’ve mentioned before like Spinoza’s from the perspective of eternity. more akin to that.

      And this would inform whether or not LCPL_X loves Filipinos.

      since my focus isn’t on humanity, but the bigger expanse of time and space and extending towards eternity, by definition I could care less, just like I could care less about the US or Russia. or Americans and Russians. because my mind attempting to follow Spinoza’s perspective of eternity, I’m calculating 1,000 plus years from now or more, and there won’t be such a thing as Filipinos or Americans or Russians, just like there were no such concepts 1,000 years ago.

      Does this have anything to do with LCPL_X needing or wanting to win debates, I would say no, because needing or wanting to win debates I think is as natural as taking a poop or taking a pee while fixing on a target on the ground in the bowl or a wall and a speck on said wall (especially when it says Forbidden to pee here 😉 ). But this very nature of LCPL_X has also fruited I think some really open minded perspectives of the Philippines and Filipinos, that TSOH members and associates have failed to understand, like why EJK was so popular with Filipinos, and due to my interactions in Mango AVE. came to understand why.

      I ‘ve explained it , but human rights and rule of law blinded you. physical security as priority so obvious was forsaken. Similarity like I attacked Korina Sanchez via Wil’s articles (which edgar also viewed as hagiographies, saint making myth making endeavors which can cut both ways thus inherently dangerous as undertaking) you failed to see Korina from the eyes of GROs, bar girls, who are only a hop and skip away from being yayas, and in fact there were plenty of hot young yayas there, and old ugly GROs/bar girls who could’ve traded places, with only youth and age as difference everything else being the same.

      I can go on and on with examples, but I’ll stop there.

      The question now is that if the intent I’ve explained above , does that necessarily inform the “discovery” being (per Joe in the current blog) uncovered, the knowledge being shared by LCPL_X per se. and no, whether or not i’m a Spinozist, a realist, even a royalist, shouldn’t matter if the “discovery” especially ones gleaned mostly from Mango AVE. are valid and verifiable. because knowledge as Juan has smartly indicated is not mutually exclusive from power. In fact, Michel Foucault said Power is Knowledge and not the other way around as we’ve been led to believe:

      How s that for discovery , Joe?! 😉

      • Similarity (that should be * Similarly ) like I attacked Korina Sanchez via Wil’s articles…

      • Karl Garcia says:

        “since my focus isn’t on humanity, but the bigger expanse of time and space and extending towards eternity, by definition I could care less, just like I could care less about the US or Russia. or Americans and Russians”

        Go to NASA or SpaceX or China or India space outfit who cares just go to the moon or Mars with them.

        Your just a gigolo….life goes on without you.

        • karl,

          They’ve just released a new series based on the Richard Gere original, which I think he did after Officer and the Gentleman a movie i thoroughly enjoyed, which also has a Philippines scene at the very beginning. but the rest of it was filmed outside of Seattle.

      • JoeAm says:

        Great quote. But it’s rather like saying if we breathe, we are alive, and if we are alive, we breathe. Coca Cola has never run an ad saying it is better for you than Budweiser. It deals in the truths of competitive advertising that can be found in people’s preferences, and has claimed it is better than Pepsi. Now, it might sell more soda if it argued beer is bad because drunks kill innocents, and soda drinkers don’t get drunk. Then Budweiser might cue up a diabetes ad, or one that features nutrition. My doctor prescribed beer for me when I was 9 to help me recover from rheumatic fever. Great testimonial there. That argument would lead to discovery. But if Coca Cola made up facts, like that beer is a rich bed for covid, then we get into something quite different. Can there be discovery when harm occurs? Yes. Is it worth it, to the well-being of earthlings, no.

        • “But it’s rather like saying if we breathe, we are alive, and if we are alive, we breathe.”

          No its not , Joe, because alive is clearly the predicate of breathing, becuz if you’re dead you don’t breathe.

          Power is knowledge though, well you have to ask cause and effect , cause and effect , all the way to the original, ask who or what is power then, that it begets knowledge. you say BBM, well what came before, and you go all the way back to Queens and Kings, then what was it before shamans? witches? how about before language, etc. etc.

          What is power that it begets knowledge, chempo or sonny will say simply its God. but that doesn’t really solve it does it.

          Whereas breathing is the after affect of being alive. no life no breath.

          • JoeAm says:

            The point is, each contains the other.

          • Karl Garcia says:

            Fitting square pegs to round holes lcx
            Joe’s sample was LCX proof no matter how you spin it.

            • On second thought, karl, it does work as predicate. I was thinking more along biological and anatomical, but if you transposed it with the “breathe” below, then that gets us back to the same question above,

              from whence does power (and breath) comes? Interesting, Joe. thanks. but its not that each contains the other, theres a predicate, then the subject.

              “The man called Adam was created when God “formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul” (Genesis 2:7). “

              • Karl Garcia says:

                Focault arguments looks circular but checking the definition and the example given, I think it is something else.
                Circular argument

                The fallacy of circular argument, known as petitio principii (“begging the question”), occurs when the premises presume, openly or covertly, the very conclusion that is to be demonstrated (example: “Gregory always votes wisely.” “But how do you know?” “Because he always votes Libertarian.”).

              • That s how Joe understands it too, karl, but its actually a cause and effect argument, his only fault is he never defines where or from who power comes from. but he makes a convincing effect case that knowledge comes from it.

                Like when Micha’s always talking about monarchy bad, or oligarchs bad, or the hegemony, etc. etc. where does it come from? you can go all the way to Garden of EDEN, but that’s Biblical history, we want

                something more enlightening as to the solution the unmoved mover the cause of all, karl. Foucault doesn’t tackle that. so we get the whole my pronouns are they/them crap instead, that s from him, karl. his way of fighting power.

                Like shadow boxing. great exercise but doesn’t go anywhere.

              • JoeAm says:

                It’s like the futility of the chicken or egg argument when the lizard came first. Power is the exercise of control over others, for good or bad, knowledge is the exercise of self-empowerment via information received from others, with the goodness or badness of it determined by how it is used under our moral codes. Power stacks people vertically, one better than another, whereas knowledge aligns people horizontally, as equals. Well, that’s idealistic, but it sorts out why MAGA Republicans use hurting people as their method and Dems are working on the problems of inequality to ease peoples’ pain. Animals follow power frameworks, thinking humans strive for something more elegant, but unnatural.

              • Karl Garcia says:

                So that is the answer to the exercise in futility: the lizard.

              • Thats the old Us vs. Them perspective, Joe, they dumb we good, they power we knowledge, they hurt we fix.

                Its the point of Mother Night, the Russians thought the same re the Americans, before that the Nazis thought the same re the Americans, then the Israelis because the story is set in Israel after capture, the Israelis equated all Commie Russians, Nazi Germans and Freedom Americans as all the same, that’s their Us vs. Them template.

                Of course decades after Vonnegut wrote the novel, the Palestinians have a say too cept they weren’t in Mother Night. All thought all them in terms of Us vs. Them. MAGA also are making themselves as heroes, fighting the good fight, same as you. all gaslit.

                Thus the point of self gaslighting, Joe. and its not the chicken and egg, because finding out from whence power comes, you solve Micha’s problems with monarchy, oligarchy, and the World Bank system. it behooves everyone to dig deeper,

                not just stop at this Us vs. Them intersection of Power & Knowledge. that’s the point of Mother Night, Joe. Vonnegut’s best novel really.

              • Karl Garcia says:

                US vs them.
                in the 7 years war between England vs France, the first proxy war ever.

                It was a fight between Prussia and Austria but UK and France meddled or in pinoy colloquialism “rumesbak”
                alot of chest thumping we rule the waves and never shall we be slaves vs France’s to cut the throat of your sons, your comrades…by golly , we participated in that war when the brits occupied Felipe Nas then later Philip married Elizabeth. they lived happily ever after.

              • So very true, karl.

                reminds me of Ali:

                “You know Muhammad Ali as the greatest heavyweight boxer ever. Do you know his words landed harder than his punches? Ali, the earliest spoken word artist, is regarded as a pioneering figure in rap music. In fact, he is argued as the first rapper in America. By the 1970s, Ali was already a published spoken word poet, a highly-acclaimed word artist, and an eloquent speaker. His familiarity with the power of words and the magic of rhythm manifests in his poem ‘Me We,’ the world’s shortest poem to date.”

                On reflection it seems that the happiest times for me were when I had an intense sense of ‘we’ ; when I felt part of a strong culture with a serious purpose. Peter Drucker reputedly said ‘culture eats strategy for breakfast’. I’m sure he was right. Indeed for me culture is strategy.

                Perhaps it is a question you should try asking yourself. Not just ‘who am I?’, but ‘who are we?’ Who are my group, gang, team or cohort? Who are my generation? What do we believe in ? What defines us? As an Agency, as a discipline, as a team? What makes us different from previous generations, from everyone else? How will we make an impact? What will our legacy be?

                I suspect it may be harder to cultivate ‘we’ in the modern era, in an age of individuality and empowerment, when our careers are flexible, our loyalties fluid.


              • Karl Garcia says:

                Drucker? Now you are into business books too! He is still a legend that even his fiercest critics quote him.

              • Obviously Drucker had never met this lady, karl:

  17. Karl Garcia says:

    I dared open up the mandatory ROTC to the AFP brats forum.
    I thought I will be crucified and eaten alive. Good thing like minded brats gave some of their objections and reservations to mandatory ROTC.

    • kasambahay says:

      congrats for being brave, better talk now than later! afp brats ought to know beforehand that in mandatory rotc they’ll be railroaded like storm troopers, and all venues to object could well and truly be closed.

      • Karl Garcia says:

        Some cons
        No budget
        Training centers of each branch of service is always in full cpacity
        Universities have no infra for mandatory for all how much high school?
        Higher tuition fees since no budget

        • Karl Garcia says:

          may be a populist move to control the youth
          How can the youth vote for duterte if given the gift package of mandatory rotc?
          what a memento!

          • kasambahay says:

            it’s not only the youth that needs discipline, adults are worse offenders and ought to be dealt the iron fist, lol! kids out of control, adults more so. to concentrate only on the kids is barely solving the problem, coz often, what kids learned at school is unlearned at home and unlearned by society.

            kids roaming the streets at night, maybe the streets are the only safe place for them. at home, their parents do drugs! kids are starved, abused, threatened at nagugulpi ng husto. badly broken homes are not ideal places for kids to grow up, materialistic and uncaring society moreso.

            rotc-ing and marching up and down quadrangles until their knees buckle will not solve the problem of discipline.

            • Karl Garcia says:

              Another eye opener kb. Thanks again. By now it is obvious that I read comments because of the things I keep remembering, I learn a lot from way of teaching kb.

  18. Micha says:

    So yesterday was Marcos Senior’s birth anniversary and there are groups (movement?) dedicated to revive his image as a mostly benevolent dictator in a crude attempt at historical revisionism. I don’t know how influential or widespread these groups are but certainly it will have the blessings of the present powers that be.

    • Karl Garcia says:

      All my son knew that it was 9/11

    • JoeAm says:

      Marcos said his election represented a rebirth of the Philippines. I said “delusional”. What a tremendous neediness that represents. The second real glimpse of bad things coming. The first was putting Calida in charge of Audit.

      • Micha says:

        One cannot be too complacent with these people. They have all the political momentum to get this (revisionism) going. Next thing you know we will have school textbooks (courtesy of Educ. Secretary) extolling the Great Apo.

        • Micha says:

          Listen to that guy in red cap and red shirt doing crowd lecture on how great the Marcoses were eliciting choir approval.

          • kasambahay says:

            red capper failed at flash mobbing! birthday boy’s kid with good muscle coordination should have spent more money and hire hakut crowd, lol!

        • JoeAm says:

          Yes. We breath smog and our knowledge is full of bullshit particles.

          • Not to mention causes lung cancer too, Joe!!!

            “Two important environmental carcinogens, tobacco smoke and ultraviolet light, damage DNA and create mutations that generate tumours. But the researchers found no evidence that PM2.5 particles directly mutate DNA, which prompted them to look for a different explanation.

            They found that the particles caused inflammation, which activated pre-existing mutations in genes that drive the development of many lung cancers.

            “The mechanism we’ve identified could ultimately help us to find better ways to prevent and treat lung cancer in never smokers,” said Swanton. “The next step is to discover why some lung cells with mutations become cancerous when exposed to pollutants while others don’t.”

            The findings may be applicable to other cancers associated with air pollution, including mesothelioma and tumours of the throat and mouth, said Emilia Lim, another member of the Crick research team. “Ninety-nine per cent of the world’s population lives in areas which exceed annual World Health Organization limits for PM2.5, underlining the public health challenges posed by air pollution across the globe,” she added.

            One way to counteract the harmful effect of air pollution may be to block a molecule called interleukin-1beta, which plays a key role in the inflammatory response to PM2.5. The team found that this approach worked in mice.

            “Our study has fundamentally changed how we view lung cancer in people who have never smoked,” said project leader Charles Swanton, professor of personalised cancer medicine at University College London. “Cells with cancer-causing mutations accumulate naturally as we age, but they are normally inactive. We’ve demonstrated that air pollution wakes these cells up in the lungs, encouraging them to grow and potentially form tumours.”

            The project is part of a £14mn Cancer Research UK programme to understand how lung cancer starts and progresses. The scientists analysed data about PM2.5 exposure and lung cancer in 400,000 people from the UK, Taiwan and South Korean, and carried out laboratory experiments with mice, human cells and tissues.”

        • Juan Luna says:

          Saw it in Youtube and commented about the historian bystander giving a lecture about history as he remembers it.

          “…there are groups (movement?) dedicated to revive his image as a mostly benevolent dictator in a crude attempt at historical revisionism.”
          – – – – – –
          It’s obvious in the video that is what they’re doing. That is how the adage ‘the spoils belong to the victors’ work. They came on top so they dictate the current talks/news. Normally happens. What’s not normal is to change history just to conform with the win you garnered. Nope, you don’t change the narrative by lying about the past in order to beautify your win.

          Winning does not grant you immunity nor right to revise history. A murderer even if he wins the lottery is still a murderer. A swindler winning a marathon does not erase one’s roguery. A corrupt person passing a bar exam won’t remove one’s amorality.

          If the bystander historian can read this, a win is a win, yes, just don’t embellish and accompany it with lies to make it appear pretty and clean. He looked stupid out there.

          • Micha says:

            Exactly. That’s why it is important to make a pushback on the false narrative or we will all wake up one day all drenched and marinated in the dominant propaganda they’re spreading.

            The guy in red cap said it himself; they are targeting the younger generation who obviously have not been exposed or have any recollection of the abuses and atrocities of dictatorship.

            They do not seem to belong in the category of fringe groups. They are most likely being encouraged (even funded) by the natural suspects.

            • Karl Garcia says:

              Re: controlling the youth. Let us say in a year SD will be able to implement this

              ROTC will backfire with the youth. In the attempt to control them, they will remember who made their lives miserable.

              then Sara vs Imee time …ooops(yuck)

              • “That’s why it is important to make a pushback on the false narrative or we will all wake up one day all drenched and marinated in the dominant propaganda they’re spreading.”

                Now we’re talking Mother Night, Micha!!!

                Compare and contrast propagandas first.

                One has a hero, the other has Ninoy (but not really touted a hero, then his wife, not really a heroine either, then the son but again lacking in the elements of myth making and hero making).

                So already 1 point for the Marcos propaganda.

                One has a base, those that’ll spread the stories (real or not), who do Yellows/Pink have as base to spread? and if there is a base, what stories can they spread, eg. hero stories, myths and legends, bigger than life stories, those sell.

                All goes back to first point. you see.

                My point is you guys have to have a hero, instead of just being contrarians. sell a new narrative instead of just refuting theirs. Like i dunno Bam Aquino with lots of women, a playboy. i really don’t

                know who the next hero will be, but since BBM is communing his father’s spirit which is already a weak narrative, then a current new and alive hero is the best antidote, right?

                Pick a hero or heroes (an ensemble if you will, like a fellowship )– but please no more of that Ocho stuff, they have to be action heroes, bigger than life. that’s how you over power their narrative, yours has to be so much better.

              • Like over here, the obvious choice for 2024 is AOC, that’s the only antidote to any old White dude. but instead the Dems will want Kamala Harris cuz its her turn, i guess, just like Hillary, it was her turn… even Michelle Obama is all the buzz these days but she’s already said fuck no, so if Trump doesn’t run 2024, he’ll just christen a Trump 2.0 and go from there.

                Though Biden can run for a second term, but he’s kinda tepid. the only real hero, with wit and humor and beauty and brains to boot is AOC.

                this was a really good podcast, summarizes America really well too.



                Chana Joffe-Walt:

                Melanie did not get into Middlebury. She doesn’t remember this moment at all. But Angela does, clearly. Even today, she acknowledges it must not have been what really happened, but she remembers it.

                I have a theory about this. I think Angela has this memory of Melanie making it– triumphantly making it– because it is really hard to believe that Melanie would not make it. And I can completely understand that.

                I met Melanie in November, and I still call her most weeks just to say, so what happened– with your dentist, with your grades, with that meeting with your professor? I keep expecting there to be news, like she’s about to get her big break or something and things will happen for her. It feels suspenseful, but nothing has happened for her for 10 years.

                I think it’s some special brand of American pathological optimism that so many of us believe the story of Melanie has to turn out to be happy. And that if it doesn’t, something unusual has happened– and not just this is what happens all the time, that the supermarket might be full of Melanies.

                Chana Joffe-Walt:

                When you described being at Fieldston and seeing these kids are going to be doctors and lawyers and we’re going to be the people opening doors for them and serving them, do you feel like that’s you now?


                Absolutely. 100%. That’s why I’m so ashamed of my job. I don’t really tell people what I do for a living. You know, I felt like we were there to service people like that. And that’s what I service. I service people that definitely express that they’re better than us and let you know you’re not on their level.

                I hate telling people where I work, because I hate– it’s a supermarket. And that’s– I really want to shake that off of me. That’s been almost nine years of my life, and I’m just like, I have to move on. I just really want out.


              • Karl Garcia says:

                Apparently AOC’s charm reached the Netherlands because Pablo nasid liked her too.

              • yeah she’s well liked for sure, karl. and hated by the GOP.

              • Karl Garcia says:

                Yep, so it seems.

              • Micha says:

                Corporal D, it’s not healthy for our democratic project to be cultivating a cult of personality. What we need are informed or at least socio-culturally aware citizens reaching critical mass that could steer the outcome of our electoral process towards that which is more reflective of our democratic aspirations. It’s not so much the initiative of leaders but the active participation of politically engaged citizens demanding policy change and/or reforms of our broken and, for the most part, corrupted system.

                That of course requires a bit more of hard work but our rise and fall as a democratic country is predicated on that willingness of our citizens to acquire awareness and enlightenment as they actively participate in our political space.

              • JoeAm says:

                Yes! The lizard argument, meant as a compliment. It is not Dems vs Republicans, it is us as enlightened people rather than crass populists looking for the meanest lion to lead us.

              • “It’s not so much the initiative of leaders but the active participation of politically engaged citizens demanding policy change and/or reforms of our broken and, for the most part, corrupted system.”


                That s Joe ‘s chicken and egg argument , which comes first the horse or the carriage, the people need to be stirred or encouraged or inspired, so they participate, otherwise just like 2016 when they forced Hillary on us,

                people enlightened or not, just opted not to go to the polls. same with VP Leni. lugaw good but not inspiring.

                So individuals or group of individuals matter, cuz people want to follow, enlightenment doesn’t get people fired up, if anything enlightenment begets despair, eg. what’s the point. so whether its cult of personality or simply getting fired up for the person that’s gonna usher in MMT,

                it all starts with individuals getting the people fired up. Hillary and VP Leni are best examples of this enlightment strategy, or Us vs. Them strategy, tepid don’t win is why, Micha. get people fired up.

                Name one place that your ideal has taken place, Ancient Greece, Rome, Helenist Jerusalem, the Vatican??? hmmmmm… never happed in history, Micha. so why shoot for the ideal? huh? if its just pipe dreaming.

                Get a person(s) here or over there, and get people fired up. that simple.

                I dunno who it will be over there, but over here it surely is:

              • Karl Garcia says:

                Pipe dreaming? I will change that what are you sinking to what are you piping?

              • I’m piping that Micha’s ideal has never been done in history, karl. so why pipe dream , when you can just use the same playbook used thru out history.

              • Karl Garcia says:

                To Micha’s credit: you will never know unless you try. It is still in experimental stage and Micha gave me a progress report that it is near main stream because I asked. Here I go again reminding you not to dismiss ideas because we do not dismiss yours. Do you want us to do that and you just go on a monologue?

              • Micha says:

                Corporal D, modern western democracies started to germinate only at around 1800’s. It’s a work in progress and is far from perfect but work on it we should in order to attain our common human aspirations. The very idea of a personality cult, a strong leader who lords it over the rest of us is antithetical to democracy. You might as well bring in King Louis XVI or Kim Jung-un while you’re at it.

              • Micha, okay so you get that its a pipe dream, and I’m not pissing on it, I think its aspirational, but this is the old idealist vs. realist debate, you account for human nature and human patterns thats been around for centuries, factor in public education which is just a century plus old give or take.

                Public education isn’t where you enlighten, hell you can even have all humanity go to college, and enlightenment won’t even come close to the masses because enlightenment is about being alone and lonely, ask the saints and buddhas.

                So this process of enlightenment has to be at home no or school according to you? same reason TSOH is such in an up roar about ROTC is the same argument way back when and to this day about public education, the American Indians had it worst with forced board and lodging schools.

                coopting minds, karl’s gaslighting, etc.

                Again I ask from whence this process of enlightenment that you speak of necessarily have to spring forth, Micha, public schools, church, broken homes, TikTok? where. answer that and maybe you can come close to even planning around this pipe dream.

                Form before function is not how you go about this.

              • Micha says:

                No Corporal Dickhead, I do not agree that it’s a pipe dream. We are already living in it. Not perfect by any means but I wouldn’t want to trade it with an autocracy or dictatorship or monarchy.

                That’s the reason why we need to work on it constantly, unceasingly, to make it more stable and healthy or we risk sliding back to authoritarianism and your stupid personality cult!

                And the way to make it more stable and healthy is to cultivate an empowered and enlightened citizenry.

              • Micha says:

                Enlightening citizenry is a process, Corporal Dickhead. You don’t achieve that overnight. We should be laying down the infrastructure by which it can be attained as, for example, hammering on the perversity of wealth and income inequality.

                Everyone who profess to be a democrat should contribute in the work.

                If you, for one, are leaning towards governance by an autocrat, that’s your choice. But don’t fucking discourage the rest of us who are for democracy to give up because it’s just a pipe dream!

                Do you understand??!!

              • JoeAm says:

                Cheers, Micha. I’m with you. I’m just skeptical that humankind has the brains to even recognize what is happening with the Maga crowd and put a stop to it. Media are flame-throwing against democracy by seeing it as a them vs us argument (Dems vs GOP) rather than a lizard argument, Republican tear-down of democratic moral codes.

              • Then please explain this magical process of yours of enlightening the masses, Micha!

                Because I agree with Joe here, I don’t see what you’re talking about. sure we live longer now and have cool gadgets. but same same as before, all lambs really.

              • Micha says:

                Well, Corporal D, if you’ve actually been paying attention, I’ve been hammering the point that we could start by, among others, ensuring or fighting for economic freedom of citizens; meaning moderating the index of economic inequality. What that entails then is, freed from the shackles of a precarious day to day scratching for a living, you allow them some degree of freedom to, among others, properly apprehend events and developments in political, economic and maybe even technological issues.

                We’ve seen many cases of direct participatory democracy manifesting in protest actions such as the Gilets Jaunes movement in France causing Macron to back off on his regressive taxation policy. More recently, farmers’ protests in Netherlands over nitrogen limits on their farms. Also, there were farmers’ strike in India over higher fuel prices against the Modi government. Or the organizing of labor movement in Starbucks and Amazon and McDonalds. All that were made possible because, for one, you don’t have your favorite autocrat telling them no you can’t do that.

                On formal legislative channels whether in states, county, city, or municipal councils, policies are being passed, modified or revised thru the active engagement of citizen voters. Propositions are routinely decided such as increased funding for school districts and public parks. State legislations offering alternative means to get abortion after Roe v Wade was struck down were prompted by engaged and informed citizens. Facebook and Google faced stiff penalties from EU and US legislative bodies over privacy and monopoly issues.

                Closer to home, we have a number of public officials convicted after public outrage over Janet Napoles expose’ of the payola scam.

                Whether it’s direct or representative democracy, hundreds of policy events are happening as we speak in different corners of the world affirming that ideal. It’s not a pipe dream or anywhere near magical Corporal D. We are living it. Real time.

              • I’ll let Ireneo cover your interpretation of whats going on in Europe, Micha, considering that its from a pro-Putin lens of yours.

                But if your point is that better economy equals better minds, well again thats all fine and dandy, that’s why i said longer lives and more gadgets. the question is does that guarantee a more enlightened electorate?

                You’ve not prosecuted that query as of yet.

                Youre just sharing dreams and aspirations, same same as around the time of WWI and WWII people said communism was gonna fix everything too, then Nazis came and said the same thing, and so on and so forth, so rhetoric needs to be backed by actual

                description of the process on the ground. not this an early experiment and this is all new stuff, etc. crap, Micha.

                You have thousands and thousands of years of human experience, and your ideal pipe dream is not even there, but more importantly just a blip. So again talk about the on the ground process not just economics will save us from ourselves crap, Micha.

                back to the drawing board.

              • Karl Garcia says:

                Micha knows her history and don’t kid your self or us@lcx, you too have espoused experimental stuff like bitcoin,ubi,cbdc and you both espouse degrowth. inequality is realtime…remember the “theory” or boast that soldier’s learning of both theory and practice on the same day? that’s horeshit.

              • Yeah, Karl, but when it comes to politics its as old as written human history, and in that history to include oral, its always been a man or woman leading followers.

                Its just how people work , karl. this notion that. we can all be enlightened and thus save ourselves from ourselves is a piper dream.

                Find a worthy leader or group of leaders, and follow, that’s how its always worked, so this follower led model is nonesense. In a democracy you have to win votes, and although we like to think people will vote for the best policies people are TL;DR,

                So this is a fiction , karl, people vote for individuals or their histories (that’s why names matter, like Kennedies or Bush or Trump, people equate names with past folks).

                Policies come last. Personalities is what people are voting on. sure Micha’s right that the West is different than the 3rd world, but if you scratch and sniff, karl, just veneer really. same ole same ole.

                But if Micha knows of a way to counter act thousands thousands of years of human history, i’d like to see the process involved.

              • Karl Garcia says:

                If both the US and the PH started as parliamentary we could have been familiar with just a few names in the parliament or not especially if they were famous in their pre-political careers or crafts. It is all a cult of personality when it comes to politics, but I could be wrong in the next century or less if we have to live in a spaceship like in Wall-E due to garbage.

              • Bill of OZ and i had a debate on gun rights once (and the wisdom of the American founding fathers) in which he declared that we Americans could use a parliamentary system for more democracy, and i said fuck that that’s waaaaaay too much democracy!

                We’re happy with our two party system thank you. us Americans like choices in groceries and shoes, but not in politics. TL;DR.

              • Karl Garcia says:

                The third choice will have his or her day one day but not in congress

              • The two party system here karl usually subsumes whatever 3rd or 4th movement that pops up, like how Bernie became a Dem; or Trump into the GOP. yes. theres always Independent, or Green or libertarian on the ballot but they don’t count really. the 2 party is prefered.

                But the absorbtion of 3rd or 4th or 5th parties is where the 2 party system succeeds, and why the Dems and GOP are ever evolving. genius really. i don’t think the Founding Fathers came up with this, it just became tradition.

              • Karl Garcia says:

                See that is the importance of flexibility, be more flexile even when you re firm and adamant. 4get that win when your talking and lose when you are listening shite.

              • But Micha’s just wrong, karl. Personalities are more important than policies. When speaking about winning in politics you gotta factor in charisma , force of will , even name and history, its not as clinical as Micha envisions hence Micha’s lack of on-the-ground understanding and especially of people.

                Aside from Bam Aquino who else can go up against Inday Sara or worst still, these cuty pies, karl? are there any Pink or Yellow cutie pies? Micha is correct to fear these handsome lads. see Micha already knew I was right even before this debate, karl. remember when Micha warned us about BBM’s cute sons?

              • Karl Garcia says:

                You assume Micha lacks on the ground understanding.

              • Kiko’s nephew Donny Pangilinan is an artista and was part of the campaign.

                A lot of young Pinks said the other side can keep Sandro we have Donny.

                Vice Ganda even came out for VP Leni at the Makati rally.

              • The Robredo sisters were present during their mother’s entire campaign.

                All three were at the miting de advance, the big and final Makati rally.

                Pink definitely has its share of personality and image.

                More than the Philippine Left which hardly wins votes anymore.

                The exception being the only opposition Senator left, Risa Hontiveros.

              • I assume yes. that’s why I am confirming via the question asked above on how the enlightenment process is to unfold as envisioned by Micha.


                But I don’t doubt Micha has skin in the game there, karl. 😉

              • Karl Garcia says:

                yes especially if you know what soap he is using after you meet in a football game or any game that uses animal skin.

              • Karl Garcia says:

                Always listen to your self you always give the example of one finger pointing at someone or something but three fingers pointing back at at you. False assumptions is always a possibility on the first or second time but it is insane proportions beyond the third time.

              • Its very easy to counter my proposition of lack of on-the-ground understanding , karl, simply explain how this enlightenment process will play out on-the-ground as Micha envisions, is it

                public schools,



                social media influencers,


                friends and family talking over dinner table,

                a little bit of both… explain the method to this madness.

                how will this enlightenment of the masses take place unfold where in everyone will choose leaders for their policies and not their personalities. Very simple to counter, karl.

              • Karl Garcia says:

                maybe Micha is on Ted Talks or has a podcast, but you have to guess who he is..Micha..try the Michigan phone book you might have a chance…or maybe its michichippi i dunno.

              • Thanks, Ireneo, there you go! we have others aside from Bam fucking Aquino!

              • Don’t out Micha, karl. I know there was one or two times an actual name appeared, but no reason to out Micha. play fair, karl.

              • Karl Garcia says:

                I blocked that from my memory LCX and you just displayed class there. Keep it up no time to be inconsistent on that one.

              • Micha says:

                @Corporal D

                I’ve enumerated random contemporary events to demonstrate the falseness of your trollish claim. And there anyone with half a brain could see how far off from reality your crapifying bullcrap turned out to be.

                As to your assertion that we need heroes, well ,you should be aware by now, especially for somebody like you who’s already an octogenarian, that individuals most often than not disappoint. And that’s on the lower end of the spectrum. Some turns out to have messianic complex and become megalomaniacal monsters instead, like our very own Apo Lakay, for example.

              • Juan Luna says:

                Personalities are more important than policies. – LCpl
                – – – – – –
                Partly true that is why we have the Robin Padillas, the Raffy Tulfos in the Senate today. But that barometer typically can be seen with how ordinary fans pick their choice of leaders. Serious and thoughtful voters look for, including personality, policies and other relevant political matters when gauging a candidate.

                For example, I consider myself serious and thorough when it comes to choosing my candidates so the Padillas, the Tulfos, the Revillas and Estradas, etc. unless I’m looking for some TV show or movies to watch, will not be in my list.

              • Sadly, you have not, Micha. for example you said,

                “What that entails then is, freed from the shackles of a precarious day to day scratching for a living, you allow them some degree of freedom to, among others, properly apprehend events and developments in political, economic and maybe even technological issues.”

                How exactly does that translate on the ground, Micha? more buying power equals more brain power? LOL! c’mon. describe this process of enlightenment pls. you’ve not done so.

                Juan: “For example, I consider myself serious and thorough when it comes to choosing my candidates so the Padillas, the Tulfos, the Revillas and Estradas, etc.”

                That’s all fine and dandy , Juan. but how many of voters like you and Micha are in the registered voters pool? 5%? less?

                Further are you saying that if your candidate is all just policy, that you can in fact vote for a candidate that’s on the autistic spectrum? or with speech impediment? Elections are popularity contests above all else first. that’s my point.

                Ireneo’s shared possible Pink contenders for the future, lets evaluate them individually. personality and likeability first, then their policies. I like the VP Leni daughters myself, especially the one to the right.

                but forchrissakes no more Bam Aquinos!!!

              • Juan Luna says:

                That’s all fine and dandy , Juan. but how many of voters like you and Micha are in the registered voters pool? 5%? less? – LCpl
                – – – – – –
                That’s like saying, serious voters are so few we cannot afford quality so just suck it up! Hard to swallow but seriously, you are actually correct. Majority of Filipino voters are poor, hence, their weight shows in election results. That and the myriad of problems that accompanies elections and voting in the country.

                Further are you saying that if your candidate is all just policy, that you can in fact vote for a candidate that’s on the autistic spectrum? or with speech impediment? – LCpl
                – – – – – –
                I did not say ‘all policy’, read again and you’ll see I wrote ‘including personality’. While you declared the importance of personality over policy I countered with balance approach by mixing the two.

                Elections are popularity contests above all else first. that’s my point. – LCpl
                – – – – – –
                Again, you are correct and reality on the ground has proven your contention makes sense. On the other hand, the same reality you espoused is the reason why we have an electoral system that is in debilitated and doddering state as we speak.

                With regard to what you call the “cuty pies” I just hate them all starting from Sandro Marcos. The boy is an epal; photo bomber, matakaw sa eksena; sobrang bilib sa sarili and simply mapapel.

              • “That’s like saying, serious voters are so few we cannot afford quality so just suck it up! Hard to swallow but seriously, you are actually correct. “


                “On the other hand, the same reality you espoused is the reason why we have an electoral system that is in debilitated and doddering state as we speak.”

                This is the chicken and egg argument.

                I’m saying people are stoopid in general, give them buying power they’ll still be stoopid. and will vote for the shiniest thing on the table.

                So I’m simply proposing instead of swimming against this current (Micha’s proposition), use it to your advantage, but for sure don’t field someone who has no personality, or less personality.

                For example, this notion that Leni Lugaw was somehow a win is retarded, the moment DDS made fun of lugaw the answer shouldn’t be to embrace lugaw (I like lugaw personally), but to do one over on them,

                and rebrand to Leni Lechon and then feed people lechon, although I’m all about gut health, Juan, Leni Lechon would mean she’d been playing into the majority wants and aspirations. and shutting down her bullies.

                it need not be the whole pig, that would be a logistical nightmare, but lechon kawali here and there (or even chicken lechon its just a style of cooking these days anyways),

                the point is don’t embrace mediocrity. be bigger than life. that’s how propaganda works. this leni lugaw affair is akin to school yard bullying where mean kids call you shit eater, and you turn around and say I love eating shit. that’s not good!

                youre shooting yourself in the foot, Juan!!! this is how to counter act bad narrative with your even bigger better one. shoulda been Leni Lechon. she’d be president by now.

              • Juan Luna says:

                I’m saying people are stoopid in general, give them buying power they’ll still be stoopid. and will vote for the shiniest thing on the table. – LCpl
                – – – – – –
                I have a contrary view with that. Rich people don’t sell their votes, they actually are the ones who buys it. Poor people, while not all, stupid or not, sell their votes and we all know the reason why.

                For example, this notion that Leni Lugaw was somehow a win is retarded… – LCpl
                – – – – – –
                I’m really not a fan of both (BBM’s & Leni’s) campaign strategies and I have to say the ‘Leni Lugaw’ ad is not the main reason why BBM won the election. But to go back to the issue of ‘personality’ I think both candidates, BBM & Leni, failed to break the personality bar. For one, the memory and legacy of his father among the loyalists, not BBM’s personality per se, made the difference in the campaign. On Leni’s part, she failed to counter effectively the push by the Marcos loyalists to put her side by side against both the father and the son during the campaign.

                In my view, the personality issue that you put great importance to, did not really play crucial in the last election. What made the difference was the mistakes, blunders and the dirty tactics (revisionism, denial, etc.) committed between the parties.

              • “What made the difference was the mistakes, blunders and the dirty tactics (revisionism, denial, etc.) committed between the parties.”

                I can dig this, Juan. BBM is not really oozing with charisma, so it was his dad’s myth propelling him (but more importantly Inday Sara DUTERTE as the main wind to this sail).

                Papa Marcos and DUTERTE names are formidable, especially after that 90% approval rating after 6 years!!!

                The pathology for the VP Leni campaign would have to be they did not fight hard enough, sure they branded VP Leni as a lady, so why didn’t they use Kiko to stir some shit up and pick fights (he was just a pawn after all, no one was gonna vote for him). too much knowledge not enough power, Juan. 😉

                They didn’t show a fighting spirit, but more importantly did not learn from that 90% 6 year approval rating for Papa DUTERTE. Am just spit balling here but if shabu was a big issue 6 years ago, why not work with that, sure stir clear of EJKs not the Pink brand,

                but keeping streets quiet, maybe increase funding for barangay tanod, and barangay level justice (they called it husay in Cebu, but basically like the truth and reconciliation process in South Africa post Apartheid, very similar process , where its handled in house within neighbors airing grievances ),

                then free lechon kawali for all. not lugaw.

                My point, focus on physical security. and lechon. next time around, Juan.

              • “Poor people, while not all, stupid or not, sell their votes and we all know the reason why.”

                Are you using “sell” here as metaphoric or literal, because if literal then since votes are anonymous how does the “buyer” guarantee that he/she has “bought” said vote? not very practical.

                If metaphoric then please explain this further, Juan.

                Because you’re adding a layer of complexity here that’s not really necessary, its really simple…

                people stoopid and smart will look at a candidate and for whatever reason, likes their nose not flat, or remembers hugging or shaking their hand, or their policies, friends and family like the candidate(s), read something on fb or saw on TikTok, likes their last name, whatevers,

                they fill out the ballot and make their choice with no one hovering over them, meaning they are in the end free to decide there and then. just them and their ballots.

  19. // These quarrels are never personal. Nor are they particularly political, at least in the ordinary sense of politics. Sometimes they take place over the distance of decades, even centuries.

    Most importantly, they are never based on a misunderstanding. On the contrary, the disagreements arise from perfect comprehension; from having chewed over the ideas of your intellectual opponent so thoroughly that you can properly spit them out.

    In other words, to disagree well you must first understand well. You have to read deeply, listen carefully, watch closely. You need to grant your adversary moral respect; give him the intellectual benefit of doubt; have sympathy for his motives and participate empathically with his line of reasoning. And you need to allow for the possibility that you might yet be persuaded of what he has to say. //



    But given the kind of disagreements we have now and its environment? It really does seem impossible. Like how would you give respect to dishonest and immoral entities that refuse to discuss?

    To share my approach of it lately, I usually just try to take the small wins and try to at least have people make a note of it. Like even if I think that these entities are totally incorrect but it seems that things are just escalating without progress? Just concede, acknowledge, and let them talk their hearts out. (Especially more so for entities that are more ‘misinformed’ rather than actually dishonest. **)

    In addition to possibly establishing rapport while trying to understanding them better, it also seems par for the course because the alternative of pushing them further with your own position will usually just cause them to clam up even tighter. Which then leads to stunted interactions in the future, if not even none at all. So as much as trying to win a battle seems fine, we do have to consider if it just leads to a war that will be harder to recover to.

    As much as the whole thing seems to have been preventable, I think that a lot of people have already been slowly closing their eyes and ears for quite some time already. And opening them up again will really take some work.

    With that, I guess the best that most of us can do right now is to continue to point out mistakes (and still try to seek truth and knowledge indeed) but try not to antagonize people even further. Don’t play the power-seeking game. Yet.

    Just plant seeds and don’t force it to yield fruit. Because whether if you force it or not, many people are just too prideful and resilient for their own good. Though you can still of course try to navigate around it and see if it can work? Again, it’ll be a lot of work.

    So in the case that you decide to back down, know that there is probably nothing wrong with it. Focus on yourself and save your energy. You can always try again next time.

    To add a more cynical take, there is also the possibility to consider that many people may have to experience, *first hand*, the failures and consequences of their own choices before they will see that something is wrong and then learn from it.

    Anyway, the mistakes will surely pile up with time and their positions will inevitably fall apart. As sad as it is, failure is still one of life’s ultimate teachers and they will not be able to simply ignore it when the time comes.

    Hmm… To quickly sum things up before I ramble on: I guess what I’m saying is that failure is inevitable. And best we can do right now is prepare to pick things up again and aim to soften the fall.

    Aiming to win right now (power-seeking?) seems to really just further the divide that we have and we really are all just losing because of it.

    So try to give it time and observe the ebbs and flows.


    ** (Something about Hanlon’s Razor, ignorance, and malice.)

    • For a more detailed approach for knowledge-seeking, I’d suggest Socratic Questioning.

      I would have preferred to comment it here but I can’t find a guide to formatting WordPress comments.

      So in case that anyone is interested in looking into it, I published it here for better formatting:

      Six Types of Socratic Questioning

      • Karl Garcia says:

        You have been missed IP.

        • yeah, same here, welcome back, IP!!!

          • Have you read “Mother Night”, ip? its about a propagandist who worked for the Nazis but was actually working for the Americans, and about balancing in the end what truth is.

            review here:

            “Mother Night,” a riveting recollection and examination of a Nazi war criminal’s actions throughout the course of World War II, causes readers to question their own moral compasses.

            The author of this novel, Kurt Vonnegut, is more widely recognized for “Slaughterhouse Five.” Although less recognized than some of his other works, “Mother Night” tells a story of intrigue and moral confusion, which is presented to readers alongside a tale of love and compassion.
            Readers are first introduced to the story’s protagonist,

            Howard W. Campbell Jr., as he sits in a prison in Israel fifteen years after the war and prepares a confession. He is being tried for his war crimes during his time as a spy in World War II. Someone reading this book might struggle at first to find the desire to develop a connection with this character.

            After all, he was a supporter of one of the most ruthless and tragic times in human history. His countless radio broadcasts that lifted him to fame overflowed with hateful Nazi ideals and antisemitic views.

            As the storyline powers forward, however, readers gain a new perspective on Howard and learn the truth behind his motives. Through a series of flashbacks to the war and his time as a spy, readers are given an insight to his personal life, a life full of passion.

            He was passionate about his his art, an impressive collection of plays that he brought into creation throughout his lifetime, and his wife, Helga. His struggle to cope with his actions and the negative effect that they had become increasingly obvious as the story progresses.”


            Mother Night is an excellent novel with morals that are still of social relevance fifty years after it was written. While framed in the era of WWII, one rife with racism and hatred, this story focuses on some of the mindsets that arose from it, as well as the lies that men often tell themselves. In one of the more poignant moments Vonnegut likens these men to a gear with teeth that have been intentionally removed such that truths basic to even a young child escape them. It is not that their minds are completely devoid of function, but that they have purposefully removed some concepts so that the narrative defining the world they choose to believe makes sense. This is a message germane to a world where human beings continue to struggle grasping the perspective of their fellows. This novel is highly recommended to readers who enjoy a highly intelligent, fast-paced, and socially relevant dark satire.”

            • Karl Garcia says:

              It would be more complete with Francis around. Paging Francis.

            • JoeAm says:

              “. . . they have purposefully removed some concepts so that the narrative defining the world they choose to believe makes sense.”

              From common rationalizations to MAGA Republicans who have layers and layers of mistruths framing their whole being, this phenomenon proves the point, we are little better than dung beetles scurrying from turd to turd and calling it enlightenment.

            • Karl Garcia says:

              In short until gaslighting. But do explain the nuances vis-a-vis Mother-Night LCX

              The term “gaslighting” actually comes from a 1938 play, “Gas Light” (which was turned into a more widely known movie in 1944, “Gaslight”), where a husband manipulates his wife to make her think she’s actually losing her sense of reality so he can commit her to a mental institution and steal her inheritance.

              • Mother Night is about self gaslighting , karl. And then it proceeds outward covering everyone else doing the same to themselves. basically the main take away is that its all propaganda, all gaslighting really , but Vonnegut himself says

                The automatic response if as Joe has indicated, eg. they’re gaslighting themselves… its not obvious to many that you are gaslighting yourself. that’s introspection and what ip’s talking about. pointing finger at others but always with 3 fingers pointing back at you, 4 if your thumbs really flexible , karl.

              • Karl Garcia says:

                In tagalog: “niloloko mo lang sarili mo” or who are you fooling or what are you sinking? hehehe

              • LOL! Vonnegut could’ve been Filipino, karl!

              • Karl Garcia says:


              • Karl Garcia says:

                Filipino would have been: What are you tinking?

              • or,

                Pool me once shame on you; Pool me twice shame on… well you just can’t pool me again!!!

              • Karl Garcia says:

                hehehe we have an old maxim: Walang manloloko kung walang magpapaloko . We keep forgetting that come elections.

              • kasambahay says:

                that’s old maxim alright, now the anti has been uberly upped and we have bots and scammers galore! it’s their golden age at nagkakalat na, they just have a rebirth!

              • Karl Garcia says:

                Yup that was why I started my twitter break last 911. The last troll I encountered wanted me to go back to the first grade because of my sentence construction hehehe

              • kasambahay says:

                troll should have told the man at the top to go back to school too, and finish what he has started, make himself better at autocue reading, lol!

                man at the top ought to update his good muscle coordination and make it better: limit his head moving side to side when speaking para bang he is looking for exit tuloy!

                at mailap siya sa eye contact: when speaking to audience, it is normal for the speaker look at the faces in the audience; kaso, the man at the top looks at the space between the wall and the ceiling, often moving his head side to side. if given mental exam, he is probly not oriented, lol!

              • Karl Garcia says:

                When you say muscle coordination my green mind activates, but i will keep it in mind only.

            • I remember you recommending me ‘Hiking with Nietzsche’ before and I only got to read it some months after you mentioned it as someone else also recommended it.

              Anyway, I did enjoy the read so will check also this out. Not to mention that Kurt Vonnegut does seem to ring a bell.

              The following quote from Vonnegut is also a vibe hahaha

              // “When confronted with the question of how the desire to improve the world fits with the notion of time presented in Slaugherhouse-Five, Vonnegut himself responded “you understand, of course, that everything I say is horseshit.”//

              • To make it more interesting, the quote is from an interview for Playboy magazine. LOL

                I actually just saw the quote in wikipedia. But reading more into the interview:

                // Playboy: In some of your books—especially The Sirens of Titan and Slaughterhouse-Five—there’s a serious notion that all moments in time exist simultaneously, which implies that the future can’t be changed by an act of will in the present. How does a desire to improve things fit with that?
                Vonnegut: You understand, of course, that everything I say is horseshit.

                Playboy: Of course.
                Vonnegut: Well, we do live our lives simultaneously. That’s a fact. You are here as a child and as an old man. I recently visited a woman who has Hodgkin’s disease. She has somewhere between a few months and a couple of years to live, and she told me that she was living her life simultaneously now, living all the moments of it.

                Playboy: It still seems paradoxical.
                Vonnegut: That’s because what I’ve just said to you is horseshit. But it’s a useful, comforting sort of horseshit, you see? That’s what I object to about preachers. They don’t say anything to make anybody any happier, when there are all these neat lies you can tell. And everything is a lie, because our brains are two-bit computers, and we can’t get very high-grade truths out of them. But as far as improving the human condition goes, our minds are certainly up to that. That’s what they were designed to do. And we do have the freedom to make up comforting lies. But we don’t do enough of it. One of my favorite ministers was a guy named Bob Nicholson. He looked like Joseph Cotten, and he was a bachelor Episcopalian priest up on Cape Cod. Every time one of his parishioners died, he went all to pieces. He was outraged by death. So it was up to his congregation and the relatives of the deceased to patch him up, get him pumped up on Christianity sufficiently to get through the funeral service. I liked that very much: Nothing he was going to say in the standard Episcopalian funeral oration was going to satisfy him. He needed better lies.

                Playboy: Did you come up with any?
                Vonnegut: I tried. Everybody did. It was a very creative situation, with a minister of God falling apart like that.

                Playboy: What are some of the lies you like?
                Vonnegut: “Thou shalt not kill.” That’s a good lie. Whether God said it or not, it’s still a perfectly good lie. And if it gives it more force to say that God said it, well, fine.

                Playboy: What’s your religious background?
                Vonnegut: My ancestors, who came to the United States a little before the Civil War, were atheists. So I’m not rebelling against organized religion. I never had any. I learned my outrageous opinions about sacred matters at my mother’s knee. My family has always had those. They came here absolutely crazy about the United States Constitution and about the possibility of prosperity and the brotherhood of man here. They were willing to work very hard, and they were atheists.

                Playboy: Do you think organized religion can make anybody happier?
                Vonnegut: Oh, of course. Lots of comforting lies are told in church—not enough, but some. I wish preachers would lie more convincingly about how honest and brotherly we should be. I’ve never heard a sermon on the subject of gentleness or restraint; I’ve never heard a minister say it was wrong to kill. No preacher ever speaks out against cheating in business. There are 52 Sundays in a year, and somehow none of these subjects comes up.

                Playboy: Is there any religion you consider superior to any other?
                Vonnegut: Alcoholics Anonymous. Alcoholics Anonymous gives you an extended family that’s very close to a blood brotherhood, because everybody has endured the same catastrophe. And one of the enchanting aspects of Alcoholics Anonymous is that many people join who aren’t drunks, who pretend to be drunks because the social and spiritual benefits are so large. But they talk about real troubles, which aren’t spoken about in church, as a rule. The halfway houses for people out of prisons, or for people recovering from drug habits, have the same problems: people hanging around who just want the companionship, the brotherhood or the sisterhood, who want the extended family.

                Playboy: Why?
                Vonnegut: It’s a longing for community. This is a lonesome society that’s been fragmented by the factory system. People have to move from here to there as jobs move, as prosperity leaves one area and appears somewhere else. People don’t live in communities permanently anymore. But they should: Communities are very comforting to human beings. I was talking to a United Mine Workers lawyer in a bar down in the Village the other day, and he was telling me how some miners in Pennsylvania damn well will not leave, even though the jobs are going, because of the church-centered communities there, and particularly because of the music. They have choirs that are 100 years old, some of them, extraordinary choirs, and they’re not going to leave that and go to San Diego, and build ships or airplanes. They’re going to stay in Pennsylvania, because that’s home. And that’s intelligent. People should have homes. My father and grandfather were both architects—my grandfather was the first licensed architect in Indiana—and he built a home with the idea that it would be inhabited by several generations. Of course, the house is an undertaking parlor or a ukulele institute now. But during his lifetime, my father built two dream homes with the idea that further generations would live there. I would like there to be ancestral homes for all Americans somewhere. //


              • Karl Garcia says:

                You read Playboy? hahaha j/k

              • Here’s another interesting playboy interview of a famous author:

       (compiled here, pg 115 specifically):

                BRADBURY: A car breaking down in so many small Southern towns and the chauffeur taking three miserable days just to get through Florida. After the second tire blew, I got the word. In a loud and clear voice from the heavens above I heard the message: Fly, dummy, fly! [Laughs] I was afraid for 40 years that I’d run around the plane yelling, “Stop! Let me off!” But I fly all the time now. I just sit back relaxed, occasionally peep out the window and peruse the magazines.

                PLAYBOY: Was your faith in law enforcement shaken because of Stacey Koon and Mark Fuhrman?

                BRADBURY: We’ve become what I call a Kleenex society—I saw the public’s reaction as the symbolic chance to blow its collective nose on the whole police force of the United States, holding all cops responsible for incidents in Los Angeles. Of course I knew there was a problem in the LAPD. On the other hand, three of my daughters have been raped and robbed by black men, so I have a prejudice, too, don’t I? And if I ever were to find the bastards, I’d kill them. I’ve seen violence used by police, and I’ve seen it used against white people, too.

                PLAYBOY: Did the Rodney King riots shock you?

                BRADBURY: I was more than shocked—I was terribly upset, and terribly angry at Mayor Bradley. The friend I’ve known for ten years was the man who went on television half an hour after the trial was over and used terrible language to say he was outraged. Boom!—next thing you know, the mobs burned the streets. Thus far I haven’t had the guts to tell Tom Bradley, face- to-face, “you did it!”

                PLAYBOY: Did you have any idea there was so much rage in Los Angeles’ black community?

                BRADBURY: I don’t think anybody knew.

                PLAYBOY: Did you feel any empathy for the rioters?

                BRADBURY: None. Why should I? I don’t approve of any mob anywhere at any time. Had we not controlled it in L.A., all the big cities in this country would have gone up in flames.

                PLAYBOY: If Los Angeles is an indicator for the nation, what is the future of other big cities?

                BRADBURY: Along with man’s return to the moon, my biggest hope is that L.A. will show the way for all of our cities to rebuild, because they’ve gone to hell and the crime rate has soared. When we can repopulate them, the crime rate will plunge.

                PLAYBOY: What will help?

                BRADBURY: We need enlightened corporations to do it; they’re the only ones who can. All the great malls have been built by corporate enterprises. We have to rebuild cities with the same conceptual flair that the great malls have. We can turn any bad section of town into a vibrant new community.


                LOL!, i guess Ray Bradbury’s kinda like Micha but with malls. LOL!!!

              • And this scene (this movie’s a classic):

              • oooops, this one actually:

            • “my father built two dream homes with the idea that further generations would live there. I would like there to be ancestral homes for all Americans somewhere. “

              This is actually the premise of “Anathem” (but thousands of years), ip. if you’re still adding to your to read list that one s a worthy addition,

    • JoeAm says:

      Interesting read. I don’t debate with trolls just as I don’t let salesmen enter the house after they knock on the door. There is complete futility to arguing with an advocate skilled at sales. For the innocents of the same cause, say people who were reached by Marcos propaganda but are themselves for the well-being of the Philippines, then, yes, it is worth a chat or an oblique approach. And failure is often the proper platform for rebuilding, so good point there.

      • NHerrera says:

        The strategy, techniques, and the art of arguing, debating, persuading, or influencing — if only there is a magic formula. [Tons of vocal chord exercises and inks have been spent on the matter.]

        Then it will be a dull place we will have. 🤣

        • This dude wrote it all down a long time ago, NH:

          The Basis of All Dialectic

          The Extension
          The Homonymy
          Generalize Specific Statements
          Conceal Your Game
          False Proposition
          Postulate What Has To Be Proved
          Yield Admissions Through Questions
          Make Your Opponent Angry
          Questions in Detouring Order
          Take Advantage of The Nay-Sayer
          Generalize Admissions of Specific Cases
          Choose Metaphors That Support Your Proposition
          Agree to Reject the Counter-Proposition
          Claim Victory Despite Defeat
          Use Seemingly Absurd Propositions
          Arguments Ad Hominem
          Defense Through Subtle Distinction
          Interrupt, Break, Divert the Dispute
          Generalize the Matter, Then Argue Against it
          Draw Conclusions Yourself
          Meet him With a Counter-Argument as Bad as His
          Petitio Principii
          Make Him Exaggerate his Statement
          State a False Syllogism
          Find One Instance to The Contrary
          Turn The Tables
          Anger Indicates a Weak Point
          Persuade the Audience, Not The Opponent
          Appeal to Authority Rather Than Reason
          This is Beyond Me
          Put His Thesis Into Some Odious Category
          It Applies in Theory, But Not in Practice
          Don’t Let Him Off The Hook
          Will is More Effective Than Insight
          Bewilder Your Opponent by Mere Bombast
          A Faulty Proof Refutes His Whole Position
          Become Personal, Insulting, Rude

          • NHerrera says:

            Lance, being honestly persuaded is what I had in my mind. Thanks, however, for SCHOPENHAUER’S 38 STRATAGEMS you posted.

            • JoeAm says:

              Well, I disagree with him that it is them vs us thinking. That’s chicken vs egg. I think thinking is more lizard with the right or wrong of it hinged to a moral platform, ours a Judeo-Christian, law-based platform. That’s the unnatural elegance that distinguishes humans from animals, the attempt to construct rules. There may be intellectual might behind shunning all rules and being contrary to anything, as LCX is prone to do, but it is the striving for right vs wrong in our behavior, the them vs us, that gives us a claim to being more elegant than hamsters running.

              • NHerrera says:

                …it is the striving for right vs wrong in our behavior, the them vs us, that gives us a claim to being more elegant than hamsters running.

                I will buy that.

              • Karl Garcia says:

                I will try outbid you (for that knowledge)if this is an auction since it is not an auction I will just buy it from you.

              • JoeAm says:

                I work for beer. 🙂

              • Karl Garcia says:

                I will outbid NH’s San Mig Lite with Budweiser.

              • JoeAm says:

                Haha! Bud won’t do it, but Corona with a slice of lime would.

              • Karl Garcia says:

                1 corona the beer and not the rona, with a piece of lime coming up.

              • JoeAm says:

                Stamped, date and time noted.

              • “I think thinking is more lizard with the right or wrong of it hinged to a moral platform, ours a Judeo-Christian, law-based platform.”

                Are you talking about turn the other cheek stuff, Joe, what exactly from Judeo-Christian platform makes it different from Hindu or Islamic, or even atheist, platforms? all religions if you read it are Us vs. Them, for example Christianity if heavily based off of saved and unsaved, believer s and unbelievers,

                it would be a cold day in hell, if they nominate a justice in the SCOTUS that professes no faith, or even a US president that’ll say I don’t believe in anything. so care to elaborate on this difference, because theres none really, just more US vs. THEM really if you examine it closely. look at the track record of Judeo-Christian platform, compared to lizards, lets arbitrarily pick Eskimos or Bushmen or Aborigines— don’t have to go all the way to lizards,

                we have hunter/gathers without platforms, or comparative systems of values.

              • JoeAm says:

                It is generally considered that Judeo-Christian rules form the Western moral codes written into laws and values. They are the lizard, and them vs us debates interpret and in turn shape them, as knowledge. Just my view. I haven’t researched or read of lizard thinking.

              • NHerrera says:

                And writing about striving or struggling for what is right or wrong, I had some fun reading the WaPo description of Republican Senate, House, and Governor candidate’s statements before the SCOTUS Roe-Wade Decision and after when there was a considerable backlash. The struggle — really a pivot — is not due to deep study and conscience but a political one.


              • JoeAm says:

                And it may turn both houses Democratic in November. Women don’t like old white men taking over their bodies.

            • Karl Garcia says:

              @NH @Joe
              I do not understand the story where a pregnant woman got shot because she started fight then sued by the police of endangering her baby?

          • Karl Garcia says:

            SUN TZU’s ghost writers wrote it first.

        • JoeAm says:

          Ha! That’s true!

  20. Karl Garcia says:

    unrelated perhaps but I will find the connection.

    Bill Hayton, a pundit who has been observing the South China sea disputes for decades now, and he even gave his critique of the arbitral ruling.

    Since he thinks nothing is happening one of his suggestions is to form an international NGO and call it a track two tribunal.
    I do not know what a gigantic civil society body can do any different if China just shrugs them off.

    so it is back to the lizard and BBM wants a marathon bilateral border agreement as if no one has thought about that before.

  21. @Karl @Joe @Lance

    Re: Gaslighting

    I actually occasionally joke about how any kind of long term discussions can be considered gaslighting. Hence, I may agree with Lance here that we may be ‘self-gaslighting’ ourselves lol

    But having had a few discussions about it, there is a consensus that it’s not necessary the case. Key factors are: intent and agency.

    For intent, well, doing something because you think it is right can really make difference. However, you probably know the whole schitck about intentions and the road to hell.

    So in addition to intent, there is also the need to establish that we are not denying people of their agency. Ourselves included.

    And here lies the crux of it: How do we ‘establish agency’?

    To share another article:


    Quick header: “Nobody’s born [polarized]; we all found it”

    // (Quick context of article: How to help someone disengage/leave a polarized/extreme affiliation. As shared by Christian Picciolini , a former white nationalist)

    Bayoumy: What does disengagement look like? What’s a typical example of someone reaching out to you saying they want to leave? How do you help them through that?

    Picciolini: It’s a whole lot of listening. I listen for what I call potholes: things that happen to us in our journey of life that detour us, things like trauma, abuse, mental illness, poverty, joblessness. Even privilege can be a pothole that detours us. As I listen to those—rather than debate or confront them about their ideology, but creating a rapport with them—I start to fill in those potholes. I will find resources in their community to help them deal with the trauma, with whatever it is that was the motivation for them to go in that direction. **Nobody’s born racist; we all found it.** Then I leverage the community around them to try to engage them and support them, and try to find ways for them to crawl out of that hole. Typically what I found is, people hate other people because they hate something very specifically about themselves, or are very angry about a situation within their own environment, and that is then projected onto other people. So I’m really trying to build resilience with people. //



    And with Joe quoting the part of Lance’s comment about ‘purposefully removing some concepts so that the narrative defining the world they choose to believe makes sense.”? These two seems to be a good contrast on what exactly is ‘establishing agency’.

    As how I assess it, if we are to establish agency, what we actually need is to establish context.For the article with Picciolini, it is a good approach to establishing agency. Contrast that to the prior quote regarding Vonnegut that implies that we have to remove context? It is disestablishing agency.

    Hmm… So this also relates to Lance’s other comment about Schopenhauer and Dielectics.

    And honestly, I’ve long had the view that most of the, uhm… deterioration? Yeah. That’ll do. Deterioration of our society right now is mostly because of the ever worsening breakdown of dialectics.

    Technology has been quite a double edged sword as it has given us (more dumped on us, really) tons of information that we can’t (or don’t want to) effectively filter. Checking my notes, I think I’ve made a comment about it before here already. But to put some of it here again:

    “In the current, digitized world, trivial information is accumulating every second, preserved in all its triteness. Never fading, always accessible. Rumors about petty issues, misinterpretations, slander. All this junk data preserved in an unfiltered state, growing at an alarming rate. It will only slow down social progress, reduce the rate of evolution.” – Rose and Colonel Campbell, Metal Gear Solid 2: Sons of Liberty (Konami, 2001)

    // Colonel [AI]: You exercise your right to “freedom” and this is the result. All rhetoric to avoid conflict and protect each other from hurt. The untested truths spun by different interests continue to churn and accumulate in the sandbox of political correctness and value systems.

    Rose [AI]: Everyone withdraws into their own small gated community, afraid of a larger forum. They stay inside their little ponds, leaking whatever “truth” suits them into the growing cesspool of society at large.

    Colonel [AI]: The different cardinal truths neither clash nor mesh. No one is invalidated, but nobody is right.

    Rose [AI]: Not even natural selection can take place here. The world is being engulfed in “truth.”

    Colonel [AI]: And this is the way the world ends. Not with a bang, but a whimper. //

    Still seems quite apt. Even when that was from 2001.

    • Karl Garcia says:

      I will read more on establishing agency. Many thanks again, IP.

      • Karl Garcia says:

        I will start here.

        IP, I am sure you have won many debating contests during your time.
        My crackerjack memory remembers you telling me that you were born in the 90s.

        • You flatter me, Karl. However, as what Vonnegut said: You do understand, of course, that everything I say is horseshit. lol

          But honest to goodness tho. My takes are mostly superficial recalls of various random information I’ve encountered. Yet, to carry my own bench, I have to say that I am quite capable in making interesting lateral relations and ideas between these seemingly random things. 😉

          Anyway, as with the link you’ve given, it is actually all new interesting information for me! haha

          I also checked out the related wiki article about “Agency” as a concept in the Social Sciences. It was defined as:

          “Agency is the capacity of individuals to have the power and resources to fulfill their potential.”

          So in the context of what I said about aiming to to establishing agency? The definition does seem apt as that is really what I would prefer. That we should aim to develop the capacity of individuals to have the power and resources to fulfill their potentials.

          (Oh. Your crackerjack memory is correct. Malapit na mawala yung edad ko sa kalendaryo. haha)

    • “The untested truths spun by different interests continue to churn and accumulate in the sandbox of political correctness and value systems.”

      You get it, ip.

  22. Lance mentioning Nietzsche reminds me of this movie scene:

    • LOL! i love that movie. but Nietszche’s for sure prescient: (go to 55:53 for TL;DW )

    • Karl Garcia says:

      Nietzche invented ridesharing with the concept of the Uber mensch

      • Karl Garcia says:

        Did Jerry Siegel and JoeShuster ask permission from Nietzche?

        • I don’t speak German but I think Uber just means over or above, karl. But a driver for Uber I think can legally with out trademark infringement claim that he is an Uber mensch, but ironically as a slave to algorithm it would take on a totally different meaning. go figure.

          • Karl Garcia says:

            Superman was an uber driver?

            • He was a journalist for the Daily Planet writing fake news and neoliberal crap.

              • Karl Garcia says:

                Yup but had an altergo as an uber mensch or super man.

              • The Daily News is a famous or infamous NYC tabloid.

                Its HQ close to Grand Central Station has a big globe in the lobby.

              • Karl Garcia says:

                Copy right infringement or IP rights violation by the superman creators hehe

              • The legal situation was probably different in the 1930s.

              • Karl Garcia says:


              • Karl Garcia says:

                Hehe neolib was en vogue in the 80s hehe in the 30s he was writing about the depression, 40s the ww2, 50s the cold war,60s Vietnam…..and so it goes my friend.

              • Any dude who runs around with his undies out is suspect IMHO, karl. he was probably a commie.

              • Karl Garcia says:

                Using his super speed, he put sand in Kruschev’s shoes that is why he removed it when he was reacting to a speech of a filipino named Komong Sumulong in the UN.

              • Karl Garcia says:

                Any dude who runs around with his undies out is suspect IMHO, karl. he was probably a commie.

                @LCX Khruschev vs Sumulong

                Superman was no commie or he could not have put sand in Khruschev’s shoes with no one seeing it.


              • That was a very good read, karl, particularly this:

                Indeed, Sumulong spoke like a stooge of the United States. The Soviet leader’s response was not altogether misplaced, although very dramatic and most diva-like. Khrushchev asked to be recognized for a rebuttal. Assembly President Frederick Boland of Ireland recognized him. So Khrushchev walked up to the podium and began an extemporaneous denunciation of Sumulong, branding him (among other things) as “a jerk, a stooge and a lackey” and a “toady of American imperialism.” He then demanded that the Filipino delegate be called to order. Sumulong was cautioned to “avoid wandering into an argument which is certain to provoke further interventions.” Boland then sent Khrushchev back and allowed Sumulong to finish his remarks.”

                I think Micha would totally agree with the Primier here, and I would ask how much the senator got paid by the Americans. LOL! but still a good story. that bit where the author did not know his friend was the son of said senator, was surprising to say the least, karl.

              • Karl Garcia says:

                So this American Imperialist lackey was coined by Kruschev.
                Sounds like a rally call…tuta ng mga imperyalistang kano.
                Even beloved ex late president Magsaysay was branded as such.
                Oh well.
                On the author not knowing that his friend was the son of the senator. Plausible! I only knew that his grandson was a classmate of mine was later during graduation when the Senator attended his grandson’s (our)high school graduation.

              • “As for the older Sumulong, he returned to head the Philippine delegation to the U.N. three more times (during the first Macapagal administration). In later years, the Sumulong name came back to prominence because widow-turned-President Cory Aquino’s mother was Demetria Sumulong, the late senator’s sister.

                Similarly, my classmate Victor (Cory’s first cousin), I belatedly found out, went on to get his law degree from U.P., became a congressman for the 2nd district of Antipolo and eventually mayor of same town, before he passed away in 2009—a mere 13 years after his father. But my best memory of Victor is that he portrayed King Claudius in our high-school production of “Hamlet” in the 1960-61 schoolyear.”


                I just had a thought, while reading this , karl. instead of a anti political dynasty law, why not inact a law where prominent Filipino families would have to marry commoners, and not other prominent Filipino families, karl.

                have you been inside here , karl, well its the same friggin surnames as ones ruling the Philippines now, as then:

              • “Plausible! I only knew that his grandson was a classmate of mine was later during graduation when the Senator attended his grandson’s (our)high school graduation.”

                I just assumed name dropping was the norm over there, karl, part of diskarte. it was so common when talking to Filipinos, always i know this guy or that guy, etc. etc. (knowleged & power for sure) maybe that stops at nuclear family then, i dunno. but thanks for the clarification.


              • Those in the inner circles of the elite usually don’t name drop.

                People simply know after a while who is who, especially the elders.

                Those who make sure their kids marry within the usual circles, traditionally.

          • Über means above.

            Hmm, maybe Lance can summarize for us what Nietzsche wrote about morality but please no chips in anybody’s nostrils.

  23. Karl Garcia says:

    Re: Nietzsche
    Nietzsche has not even tried to build a bridge in his life, no skin in the game. There is no I in team.

  24. Karl Garcia says:

    You just called everyone gaslighters here and you thought no one noticed.
    Never assume people are stupid but wtf that is what we see after the elections.
    Rebranding won ‘ t help for fault seekers they are sharp in fault finding but not in selecting the right candidate.

    • Theres a difference between assuming people in general are stoopid and actually telling people saying that they are stoopid , karl. that’s the mistake Pinks/Yellows do all the time w/out even realizing, calling the other side stoopid, instead of attempting and figuring out ways to leverage their stooopidity.

      Calling people stoopid is not good politics and not good salesmanship. it just isn’t, but assuming that this is reality first (st00pidity), then working around said reality is realistic, karl. thats how its done.

      Gaslighting 101. Rebranding renarrative making, this is all counter, re-counter, and counter again, all dynamic, karl. Read Schopenhauer’s list, that is basically the game plan. but in the end, the Yellows/Pinks did not ever understand why DU30 was so popular.

      And it all boils down to physical security.

      whereas before addicts/users had their fun disturbing the peace, this why OFWs loved DU30 because their kids (and wives and mistresses) were using their hard earned money to buy shabu. Pinks/Yellows decided that shabu was unimportant. they lost.

      Micha’s right that it all boils down to the person on the street, but the kicker is you have to understand what the needs and wants of that person on the street is, karl (and not assume they want theoretical stuff). And those sigas and standbys were affecting everyone becuz of shabu.

      Hence the popularity of that type of governance. on-the-ground truths, not high faultin stuff. power and knowledge, that’s how you dooo it.

      Leni Lechon would’ve totally worked, because Filipinos love lechon, karl.

      • Karl Garcia says:

        What made Micha think that you are an octogenarian? Was it when you called NH a prostate buddy? I turn 51 now, does that make us prostate bros?

        • 51, i think is too early , karl. unless you have pre existing condition. But yeah that prostate buddy joke I think (“fellow octogenarian”). unless Micha’s hacking my server, karl.

          • Karl Garcia says:

            Ok i will drink one of your veggie drinks to avoid it, had too many meds already and I am making Mercury drug (local pharmacy)very rich.

            • If you get tired of veggies, karl, these are good for your GI track as well, keeps everything moving. that’s the key, just keep everything moving along,

              • Karl Garcia says:

                I like the musical fruit that makes you toot .in tagalog utot

              • Another thing you can do easily, karl, is grow Aloe vera yourself then prepare it yourself to juice or eat, here:

                there’s nothing specific to Vit D, but in general its an anti inflammatory:

                A glass a day I’m sure won’t hurt, but if it does alleviate symptoms, hey make it habit. I use to spend days in the hot burning sun, and I can attest that rubbing aloe vera (already bottled sold in stores) over my skin alleviated a lot of the sun burn.

              • Modern medicine is really weird , karl,

                especially when it comes to GI tract issues, because they focus on medications, but don’t really guide you as to the food that’s best for you, sure they warn you about rice and milk for example, too much sugar to and too much salt, no alcohol and coffee, bad fats, etc. etc. but you basically are on your own when it comes to best eating for liver and stomach and intestinal issues, so experiment don’t just monkey see monkey do what the doctor tells you , karl, grow your own plants get into it deep dive Ayurveda and medicinal plants:

  25. Karl Garcia says:

    We celebrated national heroes day a few weeks ago and we do not even have a national hero. Jose Rizal was our textbook national hero.

    Quezon overshadowed Aguinaldo and it took him too long to expire and many other shit hitting the fan stuff and we ended up with no national hero.

    • “On September 21, 1892 the mail boat Butuan was approaching the town of Dapitan carrying a Lottery ticket No. 9736 jointly owned by Captain Carnicero, Dr. Rizal and Francisco Equilior (Spanish resident of Dipolog, a neighboring town of Dapitan) won the second prize of P20,000 in the government-owned Manila Lottery.

      Rizal’s share of the winning lottery ticket was P6,200, He gave P2,000 to his father and P200 to his friend Basa in Hong Kong and the rest he invested well by purchasing agricultural lands along the coast of Talisay about one kilometer away from Dapitan.

      Rizal’s winning in the Manila Lottery reveals an aspect of his lighter side. He never drank hard liquor and never smoked but he was a lottery addict. “This was his only vice,” commented Wenceslao E. Retana, his first Spanish biographer and former enemy.”

      Filipinos should play more lotto, karl. (I’m trying to bait Micha here). 😉

    • Karl Garcia says:

      As to Dynasts marrying commoners, man you watch too many Robin hood and Arthur remakes. In the recent episode of House of Dragons, the protagonist princess fell in love with a knight like Lancelot and Guenevere, but with a lot of twisted twists.

      That is common here with the lady being branded as social climbers pronto.
      sorry but nothing new with your idea.

      • Scandinavian royals are allowed to marry commoners. That’s probably the reason why they have more common sense than King Charles III, who keeps dripping himself with fountain pen ink.

        • Oh, I did forget about Harry and Meghan but that is quite recent.

          Queen Leticia of Spain was a reporter BTW. Had a hard time they say at the start adjusting to Spanish court etiquette, the most rigid within Europe.

          • Karl Garcia says:

            Camilla the Queen consort. Pops Fernandes the consort queen.
            Villar officially rejected the Camilla homes proposal.

        • Karl Garcia says:

          Man even as a young man King Charles IIihas a record book number of servants to tie his shoes to iron his shoe laces…I can see why Micha hates monarchy.

          But inversely Charles V whose son Felipe kept asking for more then Charles V kept answering: Felipe No!!!!! That is where we got Filipino. (of course i am kidding)

          • “That is common here with the lady being branded as social climbers pronto.”

            So its rich men marrying commoner women then? its one of those why marry the cow if you can get the milk for free. I’d assume this scenario would be less common given most milk there are free (comparatively speaking , karl, P1,000 to P3,000). I’m imagining more like D5 and driver situations, but marriage. not just fling. These I think is less common, but then again lots of Dance instructors too, matronas was how Visayans called these women. so same same with free milk and rich dudes, karl.

            As for Sir Christian, i think he was just a fling, karl. after that night with her Uncle, yuck!

            • Karl Garcia says:

              Genuinely surprised that You find that revolting, but yeah its Yucky.

            • Kris Aquino was married to Philip Salvador who was far “below” her.

              Actually there was a Marcos Sr., nearly a nobody in younger days, marrying Imelda, a poor cousin but still part of the Romualdez clan.

              There is Marcos Jr. whose wife isn’t that poor but is at the edge of the very old money Araneta clan Mar Roxas’ mother comes from, but then again Marcos Jr. is a notch higher I guess than his father was in his day etc etc

              • I see.

                Sorry, but i need to specify further what I mean by commoner, I mean by commoner GROs, bargirls, yayas/maids, Jollibee cashiers, mall store clerks, otherwise women who make P15,000 or less a month. renting a room with no access to window in the city, etc. etc. and if dude, then a carpenter, maybe jeepney conductor, guard, driver, heavy machinery operator (which is weird cuz those dudes over here make lots of money, carpenters too), folks who grew up in farms, etc. etc.

                I don’t mean slight desparities in social economic classes, I mean total opposites of the spectrum in Philippines.

              • Well, Duterte’s second wife Honeylet is a nurse.

                Not exactly poor, but outside the world a dynasty like Dutz usually mingles with – I doubt that a real rich kid would meet a Jolibee cashier socially over there.

              • That’s my idea, it should be made law, Ireneo. Call it the opposites attract law.

              • kasambahay says:

                honeylet was initially employed as nurse carer for duterte who already have a litany of sickness then, though apparently not sick enough to impregnate honeylet, lol! they have a daughter, kitty. and that may have been honeylet’s best investment and career move, ever.

              • kasambahay says:

                now that prince charles is king charles III, his previous staff are likely to lose their jobs! apparently, charless III will assume the staff of the late monarch, more experienced in entertaining and receiving heads of state, dignitaries, celebrities, conversant in royal protocols as regards the knights, lords and dames of the realm, also opening sessions in both houses of the lords, etc.

                incidentally, those doing menial jobs for monarchs and royals like tying their shoe laces and pressing their clothes and do them well are aptly rewarded, their pay maybe as meager as anybody’s but the perks are 2nd to none! the late queen elizabeth II has habit of giving graces and rewarded some of her loyal and lifelong workers with tax free lodges, set them up for life in rent free apartment in prime locations, their income for life also assured. the queen’s dresser was one such.

                though staff that work for some upstart royal were reportedly bullied and ended up resigning.

          • Some anecdotes about HOW spoiled King Charles III seemingly is:


            • Karl Garcia says:

              Ang arte

              • kasambahay says:

                they probly, deliberately, and purposely given him a leaky pen, lol!

                though I felt like the king each time I see the price of gas going up and up! and strangling, kicking and choking the gas attendant; other times, I just want to burn the whole gas station! boom!

              • Karl Garcia says:

                Boom! I wish we had his headaches
                ..the minor ones that he makes mountains out of mole hills, the heavy ones are up to the Prime Minister.
                But he still wins the spoiled brat of the 20th century awards based on the reports that keep showing up on how spoiled he was.

              • Belated Happy Birthday.

              • Karl Garcia says:

                Thank you brader!

              • kasambahay says:

                royal staff losing their jobs are livid and angry at the once prince now king and turning against him with numerous reports coming out of how spoiled brat the king is! how utterly cruel and heartless, terminating their jobs just when they are all in mourning.

                apparently, the king was given legal advice to let them know soonest about their job loss. they cant all be absorb to the new king’s household and some have to go, complete with severance pay, etc.

                once loyal staff happy to cater for all the king’s whims and caprices and knew all his secrets are mayhap now in no holds barred kiss and tell, selling what they knew at a price! word paparazzi, lol!

              • Karl Garcia says:


        • JoeAm says:

          “Scandinavian royals are allowed to marry commoners. That’s probably the reason why they have more common sense than King Charles III, who keeps dripping himself with fountain pen ink.”

          Entered as nominee for top quote of the year. King Charles will be the first ever meme King.

  26. RE knowledge and power, I just learned this today watching the Queen’s TV coverage of the lying in state process,

    I thought they were synonymous,

  27. Also re knowledge and power,

    this is something you don’t see every day, its almost 8pm here and the sun has gone down, but theres a hot air balloon off the coast of Baja Mexico and theres a C130 from San Diego looks like its about to rendezvous with it.

    Has to be aliens.

  28. Juan Luna says:

    Happy Birthday Karl on your 51st year,
    We hope that it starts, with fun and cheer
    Just remember, that as the year moves on
    Like LCpl, your memory will fail, and your wits will be gone

    You’ll confuse the faces, you’ll forget the names
    You’ll forget the issues and mess up the games
    You’ll fall asleep posting, but that’s ok
    For JoeAm you’ll always be welcome

    You’ll forget me, Juan, but jameboy sure was fun
    You’ll follow the discussion but forget the direction
    You’ll remember Micha for lots of gotcha!
    And will forget and remember NHerrera

    You’ll remember Ireneo B.R. Salazar
    Like roaming Bavaria while eating inasal
    You’ll remember the discussion, but forget the solution
    You’ll forget the meeting and remember the last thing

    You’ll forget Sonny even though he’s funny
    And remember Isk for being free-risk
    You’ll remember Kasambahay for he’s fine
    But forget his comments along the sideline

    You’ll forget your phone, you’ll forget your keys
    You’ll forget your appointments, you’ll forget and miss
    But don’t worry Karl, our old cyber friend
    For TSOH will see you at the very end
    Happy Birthday!

  29. NHerrera says:

    A brave and inspiring leader, Zelensky, speaks at Ukraine’s Independence Day:

    “For us, the most terrible iron is not missiles, aircraft, and tanks, but shackles. Not trenches, but fetters. And we will put our hands up only once—when we will celebrate our victory.”

    [No partying until the job is done.]

  30. Karl Garcia says:

    Coffin and Casket never knew the nuances TY for the info. I thought:” same difference”.

  31. Karl Garcia says:

    hahaha, now I am not alone in the ones being tagged by Chempo, Irineo is now in the club.

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