Who exactly is the Philippines defending against?

Analysis and Opinion

By JoeAm

Color me confused. I don’t know who the Philippines is defending against. Setting global warming aside for now, there seem to be four main forces attacking the nation and her interests. I hope the fourth one wakes DepEd up.

  • Muslim terrorists
  • Domestic rebels, specifically the NPA and CPP
  • China
  • Inability to read and do math

 

Muslim terrorists

Peace with domestic Muslims has been pursued by granting autonomy to certain regions, as the Constitution provides. President Aquino was aggressive in pursuing this and the work continues today. Good progress is being made. There are occasional attacks from armed splinter groups. The main AFP effort is to keep them suppressed and international terrorists out of the Philippines. This is a legitimate defense effort.

 

Domestic rebels, specifically the NPA and CPP

The NPA and CPP have been designated terrorist organizations by the Anti-Terrorism Council. Okay, they are a rough bunch, blowing up transmission towers and using intimidation to extract taxes from local businesses and residents. The problem is that the fight has extended to those deemed to be providing assistance to these organizations in some way. The definition is so loose that it has extended to nuns, journalists, and even candidates running for president. Where there might be 5,000 hard core members in the two organizations, there are hundreds of thousands who brush against them in some way.

In this situation, AFP and PNP are waging war against people who are not really waging war against them. That’s not really defense, is it? It’s like a war against civilians, rather like what Russia is doing to Ukrainians. Well, it is easier to tag and accuse people, harassing them, arresting them, and even killing them, than to investigate and actually KNOW who the enemy is. Arrests end up in court and a remarkable number of accused have been released. No basis for arrest.

It is clear that the Anti-Terrorism war is a legitimate defensive effort gone bad. Out of laziness, meanness, or incompetence, it has become abusive. Offensive, in both definitions of that word.

The solution is to demand more discipline out of AFP and PNP. More effort. More professionalism and respect for the Constitution. And a narrower focus on enemy troops, not nearby civilians.

 

China

Now as to China, boy, that is a tough one. It’s a big market, for sure. But even an idiot can see that China has intruded into Philippine waters and has no respect for Philippine sovereignty or laws. Where does one draw the line, you are either for us or against us, there is no grey area in sovereign matters? China gives little to the Philippines. The Philippines is treated as China’s ‘step and fetchit’ orphan boy, there to behave or get whacked with a cane.

China’s terms on development projects are downright offensive. High rates, employing Chinese workers. “Get outta here with that stuff!” Put Filipino self-respect first on the agenda.

And what’s with the proposed new laws allowing foreigners to own 100% of designated businesses? Like China Telecom owning a cell phone network? Are you nuts?

China is a legitimate enemy and the Philippines seems to be bowing to that power.

No Zelenskys here, for sure.

 

Inability to read and do math

This is a brutal stealth enemy undermining the nation’s ability to compete, be productive, be honest, and be confident. It is a slow, methodical gutting of the nation’s intelligence and ability to defend itself.

No one sees it as an attacking force, but it is.

The solution is to see it as a critical danger and act ruthlessly to defeat it. Rather than waste time marching high school kids around the schoolyard for two years in ROTC, assign them as tutors for two years teaching third and sixth graders how to read and do math. Support them with study-at-home books and quizzes.

Fight this brutal enemy to the death.

Conclusions

Both Muslims and non-muslims want peace and economic development. Other than a few bands of marauders, there is no major conflict. It is more a battle than a war. Keep fighting it.

There is no broadbased “red” enemy in the Philippines, but AFP and PNP are fighting as if there were one. It is misguided. It undermines goodwill, the Constitution, and on-the-ground help for citizens who have been left behind. Narrow the fighting to the terrorists. Not civilians. Understand that the Constitution is compassionate.

There is a legitimate enemy, China, but Government seems afraid to fight it, where fighting means to lay down a red line that says “Sorry, but until you fully respect our sovereignty, we can’t deal with you.” Defense doesn’t mean shooting and dying. But it does require intelligence, discipline, and courage. Groveling to a marauding thief is not a good fighting strategy.

Finally, recognize the stealth enemy of ignorance. It is the most serious enemy of the four listed and needs to be recognized as such. And opposed ruthlessly.

_______________

Photo: Fast attack craft ordered by Philippine Navy from Israel. https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/2022/06/israel-shipyards-launches-first-two-fast-patrol-craft-for-philippine-navy/

Comments
358 Responses to “Who exactly is the Philippines defending against?”
  1. Again, very timely. Many thanks Joe.

    The spoiled part of the ruling class which got used since 1572 to an easy life of kowtowing to foreign sponsors while keeping their own countrymen down has China as a friend, people who might point out what they are doing as enemies to be red-tagged and ignorant masses as dupes. They are different from the part of the ruling class that was evolving into true leaders of a forward looking nation, they don’t care for that and are not even competent to get that done.

    In fact they didn’t even evolve into the responsible junior partners the USA started to require in the past decades, as they preferred a senior partner who spoon fed them all the time.

    They wanna boogie like Arroyo, karaoke like Junior and flirt like Sandro. But unlike the Finnish Prime Minister they wanna party without delivering to their people first. Unless one counts their clans, cronies, bootlickers, trolls and dogs feeding on their crumbs as “their people”.

    Filipinos are mostly fools to not see the broader sense of Filipino people that Robredo has.

    But then again, many are probably so jaded they thought “she must be too good to be true”. “Everybody is corrupt, so I might as well take my chance at crumbs falling from the masters table, or a salami from time to time if I am a good boy”. But even salt is rare now, what a sin.

    • JoeAm says:

      Thanks. I think the negligence of the Duterte years is catching up to the new cadre of agency heads and they are flying by the seats of their pants, most articulating authoritarian reasons for strange acts. Cable cars, secret budgets, salt and sugar crises, and loyalty journalism. Woowoowoo!

  2. Karl Garcia says:

    You have articulated in 14 paragraphs what we have all been figuring out for years here.

  3. Marvs says:

    there’s another one or maybe just a subset of the fourth one: socmed trolls!

  4. Micha says:

    I do not know Clarita Carlos at all other than she is a UP political science professor and currently serving as national security adviser. I saw her brief testimony/presentation at a senate hearing on a shift to parliamentary form of government and I think she made a sensible argument for it in terms of its being able to be more responsive to changing the political power dynamics of the country.

    She more than once referenced the British experience which could, in a way, douse some cold water on those who are enthusiastically pushing for it.

    Nonetheless, a very healthy intellect. We need more like her in the national stage.

    • Karl Garcia says:

      Robin Padiila might change his mind on being Chair of the Constitutional Amendments Committee.
      He would not last in a Parliament.

    • I Wiki’ed this Clarita Carlos and came upon a 2010 treatise of hers (et al).

      “We believe that the most urgent tasks for the new leadership in order to lay down the groundwork for economic development are as follows, in the following order of priority:

      1. Corruption/Rule of Law and Justice Reform. Good housekeeping should be the first priority for the new leadership to be effective in implementing all other reforms.

      Democratic Deficits in the Philippines: What is to be Done?
      Achieving respect for the rule of law and undertaking reforms in the justice system are very much closely related to eradicating corruption and inefficiency in the three branches of government.

      2. Insurgencies. Peace is a pre-requisite to development. Unless there is peace in the various regions, especially in Mindanao, it is very difficult, if not impossible to bring development to those areas, and to the country as a whole, where vast potentials for development remain untapped.

      3. Public-Private Sector Partnership. Development can only be pursued if there is a sound working relationship between the government and the private sector.

      4. Local-National Government Relations. Implementing policy for development and basic services must be carried out consistently at various levels of governance down to the smallest political unit which is the barangay.

      5. Political Parties/Electoral Reform. The new leadership must ensure that a reconfiguration of the political party system as well as the pursuit of electoral reform will be carried out to pave the way for principled and party-based leadership, in contrast to purely personality-based leadership that we have now.

      Democratic deficits are the consequences of our failures as a people to cope with the challenges of development as we confront them everyday. Democratic deficits are the broken promises of political leaders, the apathy and procrastination of our people, the failure of our institutions, the alienation of the marginalized sectors of our society, the apparent incorrigibility of some officials and rank-and-file government workers, or simply our unwillingness to devise ways and means for our communities to have a fighting chance.”

      https://www.kas.de/c/document_library/get_file?uuid=155fb5bf-7210-544a-c540-d007218a3c35&groupId=252038

      6. I would just add that there should also be a war against bad gut bacteria and support of good gut bacteria, if you do this one single thing you’d greatly affect 1-5, and Joe’s list above, plus the war on socmed trolls, because the smarter your gut, the smarter your brain.

      Smart people make smart nations.

      • For example Dr. Carlos in the same seminal work cites:

        Well, them small farmers don’t have to be doing rice, they can be planting more singkamas ,

        which are very good pre- biotics, which pave the way for the good bacteria to thrive. nutrition wise not so much in there but it is its pre-biotic quality thats important. like mulch in gardening.

        Too much alcohol or too much lechon kills good bacteria, instead promotes the bad ones. too much sugar and salt too. Support your good bacteria.

        So eat more singkamas which we call jicama over here due to it being Mexican in origin (found in South America too, the Incas were fans of it and look at the stuff they built in the Andes!!! ).

        • kasambahay says:

          in philippines, the problem is probly not in the gut but in the mind, lol! politicians eat through party after party, consume all kinds of super foods known to humans, they may have the healthiest gut in the universe, but pity about the health of their mind, lol!

          our politicians want to be loved and worshiped, respected even, and what do they get? ridicule! citizens answering back and angling for a battle! questioning and calling politicians to be accountable, and not hiding behind new and emerging bad habit that their signature has been forged! that vital documents signed without them politicians knowing. what a party!

          • Karl Garcia says:

            Another dose of: No guts, no glory.

            • Karl Garcia says:

              Matibay ang sikmura.
              Kung matibay daw ang sikmura mo malakas ang loob mo( parang inulit lang).
              Pag matibay sikmura mo kahit ano pwede mong kainin, etc etc

              • kasambahay says:

                In the speech, Elizabeth the 1st of England defends her strength as a female leader, saying “I know I have the body but of a weak and feeble woman; but I have the heart and stomach of a king, and of a king of England too”

                as well, kaming mga bisaya dont always think literally, to us strong stomach can sometimes mean strong will; idiom.

                idiom or not, having strong stomach to rob the poor is often highly attributable to govt of the day.

              • Karl Garcia says:

                Pardon me for being literal got into this gut thing by LCX.
                But you are correct people having the stomach to do terrible things also must find ways how to sleep at night.

              • JoeAm says:

                Yes, there is school smart, and there is greed smart, for money or power. Too many are greed smart. The correct smart is togetherness smart, which aligns with democrats in the US. Greed smart aligns with Republicans in the US and everyone but Pinks in the Philippines.

    • kasambahay says:

      I’m just being funny here, clarita carlos is pbbm’s appointed national security whisperer and may have been allegedly whispering to deped’s inday sara, mayhap causing inday sara to ask for additional allocation of 500million to fund projects related to national security.

      this national security causes lot of paranoia, more so after the shooting death of ninoy aquino sa naia, the angst relived and commemorated every year. the no holds barred killing of an icon in plain sight and in broad daylight must have caused sleepless nights to many less iconic politicians, their holds no bar security need topmost and money is no problem.

  5. This is relevant to the current blog, to me, and to the Philippines (see Dr. Carlita Carlos’ coverage on the PNP/AFP above link).

    “We need to make sure that our military is as removed from politics as possible and it’s not right if a Democrat uses the military as a political pawn and it’s not right if the Republican Party does it as well. None of our politicians or elected leaders should do that,” Allison Jaslow, a former executive director of the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee, told CNN’s Brianna Keilar on “New Day.” (from CNN.com)

    I was trying to figure out what the specific purpose was of the Marines in the background. Those are DC Marines (pretty sure 8th and I, and Marine Band also from DC). so they were brought in specifically to provide back drop to Biden’s speech, eg. they weren’t organically there nor were they incidental, since I don’t know why they would be there yesterday.

    Except for this which is totally arbitrary as far as dates go:

    The bell arrived in Philadelphia on September 1, 1752, but was not hung until March 10, 1753, on which day Isaac Norris wrote, “I had the mortification to hear that it was cracked by a stroke of the clapper without any other viollence [sic] as it was hung up to try the sound.” (from UShistory.org)

    So theres no reason for the Marines being there as background to Biden’s political speech.

    Thus Allison Jaslow is correct, its in bad taste like having Marines (or any military branch) be in official capacity say in a political convention. I gotta feeling those two Marines shown behind Biden would be voting for Trump, therein lies the disconnect.

    Don’t use Marines as political pawns. they are also voters.

    here’s what Dr. Clarita Carlos said:

    “Armed Forces of the Philippines (AFP)/Philippine National Police (PNP) Reform. The politicization of the AFP has been manifested in the more than a dozen coup attempts that have occurred in the past 24 years. The politicization of the PNP has been brought about by the influence of local government units through financial support and recruitment recommendations. With these persistent democratic deficits, selected recommendations from the Davide Commission and Feliciano Commission are presented which have not been implemented but remain relevant to our times.

    The following key recommendations contained in the Davide Commission report, among others, must be implemented in order to prevent or when dealing with coup attempts when they happen: (a) administer a justice and rehabilitation program to military participants; (b) strengthen security measures on those under detention; (c) carry out speedy action on appeals over decision on AFP courts-martial; (d) implement a comprehensive program to provide timely rescue and medical assistance to troops wounded in combat; (e) remove or reassign officers of less than 100 percent loyalty from sensitive positions in the military hierarchy, i.e., intelligence, operations, logistics, and training functions; (f) disband organizations not authorized by the military; (g) observe a systematic selection process for the new Chief of Staff that generates the least controversy about the choice; (h) crackdown by the military on some “big fish” corrupt officers; (continues all the way to (n) ). ”

    I would just add, don’t use the military as your convenient background to attack the other party, undemocratic! Looks bad on you. Desperation is what it looks like.

    • “You can’t criticize a prior administration and not also hold yourself to a much higher standard,” Allison Jaslow argued, adding, “If you don’t want the so-called MAGA Republicans or any Republicans to be politicizing the military, of which many administrations have done, then you shouldn’t do it yourself.”

      here,

    • JoeAm says:

      It’s a two way street. The politicians ought not challenge the military leadership to resign, as Republicans have done with the secretary of Defense. There should be neutrality and self respect going both directions. The Philippine Secretary of Defense, Delfin Lorenzana, was a rock of apolitical leadership during his term.

      • Oh i completely agree Joe. those two Marines there w/ Biden are probably just LCPLs thus have no say theirs is to do or die, not to ask why, but General Milley on the other hand is suppose to ask why, i think they let him off easy cuz he wrote a book, but that guy could’ve said “Mr. President , I have to drop a log in the toilet its a big stinker, will catch up with you all after you come back to the White House.”

        I’ve always wondered if a Marine general would’ve done the same as Milley, and I’m thinking nope.

        • JoeAm says:

          Miley looks and talks like a real general, tough as nails, smart as hell. Looks like my second ex’s father, recently passed, who was a B-52 bomb dropper. I didn’t mess with him, either.

          • He still should’ve known better, Joe.

            I’m no general but am familiar with

            the basis of all this separation. police inside, military outside. with nat’l guardsmen straddling the two in times of crisis, but whose chain of command direct goes up to police, not the military.

            • JoeAm says:

              He was making a political speech if you believe fascism is a political movement rather than a national defense threat. Most media see it that way, political. I think Biden saw it as a defense speech.

              • “I think Biden saw it as a defense speech.”

                Which ties in directly to your current blog , Joe.

                China or Russia sure defense speech those, but Trumpism as defense issue its just not, if anything Trumpism is a reaction to all past failures, from Clinton to Clinton, globalism to Hillary being the end all be all of the Democratic party.

                That ‘s why Trump won, if that’s why Trump won, address those concerns. Don’t manufacture a threat out of thin air.

                Inact better policies…

                Voila! Trump and Trumpism is defeated. No need to post Marines behind you. its a policy battle. its mid-Terms posturing.

              • JoeAm says:

                Well, it is a fascinating duplication of what we see in the Philippines, if a bad person breaks the rules (Trump calling dems fascist in 2020, surrounded by military people) it’s okay because they are bad people, but a good person (Biden) doing the same thing, howls of protest. While no howls of protest from those same people when Trump held a primary in the White House or squirreled away top secret documents, like lists of spies, as spies mysteriously started getting killed around the world. Really, the backdrop to a speech is absolutely a non-issue raised by desperate people trying to defend treason.

              • We’re just talking about using the military as back drop to political mumbo jumbo, JOe.

                Trump did it, and it was wrong. Gen. Milley had to apologize, Trump didn’t; i don’t think Biden needs to apologize for this stunt. But it s not appropriate. its a stunt tho’ nonetheless.

                That’s all i’m saying, Joe. its wrong for Trump and for Biden.

              • JoeAm says:

                And I’m opposing the diversion. Insurrection and stealing secret documents is criminally wrong.

              • Insurrection isn’t really insurrection, if they had just posted more police and nat’l guard around the Capitol , Joe. it was a site security issue, and who ensured less personnel that day is at fault. crowd control only.

                As for all this TS/SCI stuff, it was Trump who made that misdemeanor into a felony becuz of Hillary. No one knew what Hillary had in her servers, but people will know what Trump had with physical TS/SCI documents.

                But simply having TS/SCI was a misdemeanor. until recently.

                Think about it if Trump was selling secrets , Joe, from a counter-intelligence perspective, which is also the purview of the FBI, it would make more sense to trail all those stuff to its buyers. then you have treason and espionage.

                But as of now, we just have TS/SCI, that’s all. further more, just becuz its labelled TS/SCI doesn’t mean its current now, the intel could be stale, old, etc.

                in conclusion,

                1. insurrection was a crowd control gone wrong issue.

                2. TS/SCI possession was recently upped to felony recently.

                so there.

              • JoeAm says:

                No, the police did not incite the rebellion. Incredible that you are a part of the misdirection and excuse-mongering, just one more American minimizing the end of America as she was once designed.

              • JoeAm says:

                There are many pieces to the insurrection. The failure to accept election results was a huge milestone, plotted well before the election. Stocking the supreme court with radicals. The Jan 6 riot where Trump wanted people armed, was restrained from joining them, and saw people killed. The continued calls for violence. It is not some benign crowd control issue. Good gosh.

              • An insurrection that could’ve been easily thwarted by simply having the right amount of personnel for site security and crowd control , is not really an insurrection, Joe.

                There was a mob, there was minimal amount of police, ergo the Capitol was taken over.

                This sky is falling stuff is just that. mid-Terms, Joe.

                I am however interested about this TS/SCI documents stuff, if it does fruit a conviction and what type of conviction it will be. But insurrection is insurrection in name only for prime time. don’t buy into it.

                Liz Cheney already lost , no more insurrection. poof! like magic.

              • JoeAm says:

                You are reaching idiot troll level now. Failure to certify an election is not mid-term politics. Legislators leading rioters through the capitol to give them the lay of the land is not business as usual. Nor is Pelosi and your hottie AOC hiding in rooms fearing for their lives. Get a grip, man.

              • Joe, i literally said it was Trump that made it a felony (read above). it was just a misdemeanor before, because busy policy makers will have TS/SCI stuff on them, as part of their work.

                But all these talking heads on TV are talking about sources and methods, well sources and methods don’t leave whatever agency owns those sources and methods, so chances are 99.9 % no sources and methods are with Trump.

                There are instances when sources and methods get divulged, but those are in reports, you’re read-in meaning whatever document whatever agency brings in, they bring it back to their agency.

                Policy makers get the sanitized just intel reports. and like I said TS/SCI reports get stale, due to time and space. So unless they actually convict Trump for something, its a big nothing.

                But they’ll be convicting him with the very law he signed into law.

                As for insurrection, you can cite all the moving parts, but if it all boils down to site security and crowd control, then the fault is not really with the mob, same with holding concerts if a riot breaks out, the promoters first get dinged for not having enough personnel at the venue.

                same concept, Joe.

                The insurrection is only interesting when Liz Cheney was around, now its like who cares; but the TS/SCI will be interesting because they’ll fry Trump for the same very same law he signed. LOL! that’s irony for you.

                But i gotta feeling they won’t convict cuz those TS/SCI documents will be proven innocuous. that’s just my hunch thought. But the insurrection stuff is done, Joe. no more Liz Cheney.

              • JoeAm says:

                No, it’s not done, it is not just a crowd control issue, it is not hinged on Cheney, it is big, complex, well-funded, fascist, long term, backed by major media, and may win.

              • You think they’re gonna have another committee hearing, Joe?

              • JoeAm says:

                I expect so. Plus there is a court case in Georgia and the DOJ’s work. Rioters are busy pleading guilty and going to jail. A Dem now represents Alaska, not Palin. The Nov election is big. Lots goin on.

              • There’s also a tax evasion case in NYC.

                But like I said, since the Dems have been portraying Trump as some dope, they cannot convince people that he’s some mastermind now. its a branding issue.

                Hard to back track and say this guy intended for all this to happen. Yet the elephant in the room which is who decided not to man enough personnel for the crowd expected that day, kinda sweeping that tad tiny detail under the rug, Joe.

                I doubt they’re gonna have another hearing. the last ones were a dud. the first one was interesting though, hot chick in the hot seat.

              • JoeAm says:

                Since the Jan. 6 attack, Congress has undertaken a series of security reviews about what went wrong. The three top security officials in charge that day resigned in disgrace, and they have since deflected responsibility for the intelligence failures, blaming other agencies, each other and at one point even a subordinate for the breakdowns that allowed hundreds of Trump supporters to storm the Capitol.

                “None of the intelligence we received predicted what actually occurred,” the former Capitol Police chief, Steven A. Sund, testified in February before the Senate. “These criminals came prepared for war.”

                But the inspector general report makes clear that the agency had received some warnings about how Mr. Trump’s extremist supporters were growing increasingly desperate as he promoted lies about election theft.

                “Supporters of the current president see Jan. 6, 2021, as the last opportunity to overturn the results of the presidential election,” said the assessment three days before the riot. “This sense of desperation and disappointment may lead to more of an incentive to become violent.”
                The Department of Homeland Security warned the Capitol Police on Dec. 21 of comments on a pro-Trump website promoting attacks on members of Congress with a map of the tunnel system, according to the inspector general’s findings.
                “Several comments promote confronting members of Congress and carrying firearms during the protest,” a Capitol Police analyst wrote.

                Among the comments reported to the Capitol Police: “Bring guns. It’s now or never,” and, “We can’t give them a choice. Overwhelming armed numbers is our only chance.”

                On Jan. 5, the F.B.I.’s Norfolk field office, in Virginia, relayed another threat from an anonymous social media thread that warned of a looming war at the Capitol.

                “Be ready to fight. Congress needs to hear glass breaking, doors being kicked in, and blood from their BLM and Pantifa slave soldiers being spilled,” the message read. “Get violent … stop calling this a march, or rally, or a protest. Go there ready for war. We get our President or we die. NOTHING else will achieve this goal.”

              • JoeAm says:

                They start talking about LCX about 7 Minutes in. lol

              • JoeAm says:

                More news that suggests this was something other than a police failure. Like a conspiracy thingy, and people with no respect for law. Or truth.

                https://thehill.com/regulation/court-battles/3626586-judge-denies-steve-bannons-request-for-a-new-trial-after-contempt-of-congress-conviction/

              • “Six times as many protestors—as many as 120,000—would show up on the Mall on January 6, according to classified numbers still not released by the Secret Service and the FBI but seen by Newsweek. But there is still not an official estimate, nor have any of the Congressional committees or task forces offered a number. Nor is there a clear number of how many people actually entered the Capitol, or tried to get in.”
                https://www.newsweek.com/exclusive-classified-documents-reveal-number-january-6-protestors-1661296

                Joe, this wasn’t a meet-up on social media, law enforcement overestimated the crowd that day based on all the hype. and they estimated a lot of people to be there that day.

                Now sure less people ended up showing.

                But from a crowd control perspective, you based your response on that 120,000 which isn’t really alot compared to 500,000 which were estimated during the height of some BLM protests that same summer in big cities, but 120,000 you’d have extra fortifications and personnel.

                the principle here is abundance of caution.

                And it becomes something more than just a Capitol police matter again based on that number.

                I understand there were scapegoats chopped, but that whole process of decision making and saying we’ll need less people today needs to be really examined. and investigated, not just chopping of scapegoats, what were the numbers they were preparing for, etc.

                in the end , i think only 20,000 showed up and like 4-6,000 entered the capitol. that number is not yet solid but thats the estimate based on arrests. we’ll probably never know.

                But the point here is,

                if they had planned for that 120,000, and appropriately had enough for crowd control and site security, then that tiny sliver of 4-6,000 would not have been able to enter.

                See that cause and effect, Joe.

                That’s why no ones buying this insurrection stuff. and people are frankly tired of it. I know theres a lot of “plans” uncovered, but it all hinges on police crowd control. had there been the appropriate number for the crowd expected that day, no insurrection. simple cause and effect really.

              • JoeAm says:

                Capitol police were unprepared. Correct. Some were killed and beaten, some resigned, it was a mess. They did not plan or initiate the attack or the intent of it, to overthrow the election. Yes, if the army had been out, they could have stopped the riot. So could Trump have, at any time. He didn’t. You have the wrong culprit.

              • But research the numbers , Joe, don’t tak emy word for it.

                The question also is can 4-6,000 Trumpists really have over thrown the gov’t that day? I mean sure they’ve uncovered “plans” by Trump et al. but realistically speaking using our commong sense here. and how the Fed gov’t works.

                if that 4-6,000 mob of MAGA idiots controlled the Capitol, lets go even further in this thought experiment (counter factual analysis really) had killed all the Democrats they set out to kill that day, would Trump have stayed as President.

                NO.

                common sense tells us, that that 4-6,000 would’ve be dealt with as a hostage or barricaded situation and because of that number, militay and police units would converge with more troops really quick cuz its DC, and probably kill all the mob inside the Capitol. then you’ll have replacements for the dead Democrats and Pence,

                then the nation would continue.

                So even that insurrection itself the logistics of it all, is on shaky ground, Joe. it would’ve never worked!

              • JoeAm says:

                In your opinion. Had Pence kicked the election back to the states, it could have worked. The documents were in place. The states were lined up. It was there. But what is weird is your not being upset that Trump, smart or dumb, lived the big lie, and is still living it. You’d rather blame the police or say it is not a big deal. Hey, it was and is a big, big deal. The lies, the hate, the incitement of violence against people just doing their jobs, the breakdown of social norms. Ugly America.

              • Juan Luna says:

                That’s why no ones buying this insurrection stuff. and people are frankly tired of it. – LCpl_X
                – – – – –
                That may be true on the Maga side of the political fence but in general Americans are interested in finding out what really happened on Jan. 6, 2021.

                The question also is can 4-6,000 Trumpists really have over thrown the gov’t that day? – LCpl_X
                – – – – –
                That is a question that has some twist on it. The Maga crowd was not out to ‘overthrow’ Trump’s government, they were out to bastardize the results of the election in favor of Trump. In reality, they are really supporting his government by subverting the role and work of Congress that day.

                Could they have done it, kill the democrat legislators plus Pence on that fateful day? It’s possible considering for so many hours Trump was not doing anything to stop what was happening at the moment. He’s witnessing the defacement, destruction and threat to the lives of government officials, including his Vice President, in real time and he has not lifted a finger.

                It was a violent insurrection and I’m not sure you are seeing it with 20/20 vision.

              • “In the United States, insurrection against the authority of the federal government is a crime under 18 U.S. Code §2383, which provides that:

                Whoever incites, sets on foot, assists, or engages in any rebellion or insurrection against the authority of the United States or the laws thereof, or gives aid or comfort thereto, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.

                that’s different from,

                Juan: “The Maga crowd was not out to ‘overthrow’ Trump’s government, they were out to bastardize the results of the election in favor of Trump. In reality, they are really supporting his government by subverting the role and work of Congress that day.”

                Okay so are you saying it wasn’t an “insurrection” then? Becuz I would tend to agree with you , Juan. as far as definitions are concerned.

                Either way, you have to ask what would’ve happened had they been successful, because what that mob tried to do was sabotage a congressional process that was largely symbolic, in fact they’ve already changed the Electoral Count Act to ensure another Mike Pence incident doesn’t happen.
                https://www.npr.org/2022/07/20/1105843501/electoral-count-act-changes-pence-january-6th

                They were there to stop a symbolic act, Juan. Trump no matter how you cut it had to leave the WH– whether or not the “insurrection” succeeded in taking over the Capitol. that’s a fact.

              • JoeAm says:

                It’s not a fact. It is speculation. It would only be fact if it happened. I think you are confusing what is in your mind with reality. lol

              • Juan Luna says:

                Okay so are you saying it wasn’t an “insurrection” then? Becuz I would tend to agree with you , Juan. as far as definitions are concerned. – LCpl_X
                – – – – –
                It was an insurrection committed by the Maga crowd having a frame of mind that they are going against the authority of Congress in favor of the seating president, Trump.

                Either way, you have to ask what would’ve happened had they been successful, because what that mob tried to do was sabotage a congressional process that was largely symbolic…
                – – – –
                You have to clarify what ‘successful’ means. Successful because they killed Pence and all the democrats and the remaining GOP declares Trump as winner? Successful because they convince, under physical threat, Congress to reverse their decision in favor of Trump, etc.?

                Whatever it is, it would have a destructive, debilitating and catastrophic effect on the democratic nature of governance in the US.

                Trump no matter how you cut it had to leave the WH– whether or not the “insurrection” succeeded in taking over the Capitol. that’s a fact.
                
- – – – –
                Not necessarily, first, why will Trump leave when he already has reason to stay? (With or without Pence assists, Congress declares him as winner). Second, the success of the insurrection will place the entire country in a shamble where everything would be uncertain, out of control and volatile. That would give Trump more time to stay in office until he ‘finds out what’s happening’. And that would include the possible declaration of martial law until Trump ‘figure things out.’ Or undo the just concluded election and declare it null and conduct a repeat. I mean, things will be topsy turvy and with a harebrained sitting as president anything can happen.

              • “It’s not a fact. It is speculation. It would only be fact if it happened.”

                Let’s say it happened, Joe.

                Do you seriously think Trump would stay in the WH, or instead,

                that police /military take out the mob in the Capitol ala Die Hard.

                it’s Die Hard, it’s so obvious based on police and military response and that electoral count being symbolic, that to entertain a scenario that Trump did

                end up staying in the WH would be ludicrous. unrealistic, Joe. if you think i’m wrong, think it through, the mob has just taken over the Capitol what happens next, Joe…

                Think it thru.

                (see I’m am right. )

              • JoeAm says:

                I could assign probabilities to it, maybe 50/50. But your own opinion is not fact, and it never can be.

              • Okay if you think 50/50 then play by play us on how it could’ve happened where Trump stayed in the WH, Joe. and i’ll point out how ridiculous those scenarios would be. deal?

              • JoeAm says:

                I think the scenario he was playing out was to put physical, heavy, intimidating pressure on Pence to kick the election back to the states where the electoral votes would be reconfigured. He may not have wanted the crowd in the building, but outside it, or at his heels marching into the House, with him leading the demand for Pence to stop the steal.

                Had Pence done his bidding, the takeover would have been legalistic and peaceful, and confused enough that the military would have no basis for extracting him.

              • See below (my answer to Juan).

              • JoeAm says:

                Okay, we are crossing messages. If your scenario plays out, then we have a failed insurrection, as we have now. But an attempted insurrection nonetheless. What is stunning to me is how many grown adults were going along with Trump on the escapade.

              • Of the 70 million of so that voted for Trump, only 20, 000 showed up and 6,000 stormed the capitol, so that’s good news i guess.

              • JoeAm says:

                @lcx, Yes. Republicans are losing small donors and complaining it’s inflation (not Trump’s redirection of their prior donations). Meanwhile, democrat small donations are rising.

            • Juan: “Successful because they convince, under physical threat, Congress to reverse their decision in favor of Trump, etc.?”

              Juan: “Not necessarily, first, why will Trump leave when he already has reason to stay? (With or without Pence assists, Congress declares him as winner).”

              Juan , again the Electoral count is largely symbolic so it cannot have been reverse nor could Trump had stayed. So your shambles and catastrophic effect scenarios are unfounded, the “insurrection” would’ve been dealt with as a criminal matter by police (and military). its really that simple.

              Trump would still have left the WH and Biden taken his place.

              • Juan Luna says:

                Juan , again the Electoral count is largely symbolic so it cannot have been reverse nor could Trump had stayed. – LCpl_X
                – – – – –
                It maybe symbolic but it doesn’t mean it cannot be violated. What do you think would have happened had Mike Pence agree with Trump and question the procedure on every single state and reject electoral votes coming from those states? I mean, it may be symbolic but to a shrewd and venomous mind it can still be subverted.

                I’m not sure where your confidence is coming from but the fact that the siege on the Capitol happened suggests that we should expect the unexpected.

              • Since that’s the best counterfactual so far presented, lets play it out,

                Mike Pence says , Trump is the president!!!

                What happens?

                if mob comes in when Pence declares it, they’ve had shot themselves on the foot automatically. and my police/military scenario takes over.

                if mob backs off becuz Pence played along, then it goes the official route with SCOTUS chiming in , in a process similar to Gore v. Bush.

                either thru those court proceedings they discover

                votes were faked at which point Trump would end up staying.

                or votes were valid no wrong doing proved, then Biden moves into the WH.

                see how that works? cause and effect, all cause and effect. really, Juan.

              • Juan Luna says:

                Mike Pence says , Trump is the president!!! – LCpl_X
                – – – – –
                No, Pence cannot do that. He can only throw a monkey wrench on the process to cast doubt on the whole exercise and prolong the agony of whether the US has a new or the same president.

                Anyway, we’re just speculating at this point on an event that has already evolved into something else. There was an insurrection and it is being investigated now.

                I hope that culprits must and should be punish.

              • The counter factuals are meant to weigh the severity of that insurrection had it been successful, Juan. and as i’ve proved small potatoes at most.

              • “and prolong the agony of whether the US has a new or the same president.”

                The fact that no Federal court entertained these vote fraud cases, means had it gone to SCOTUS to pick the president, it would’ve been an easy case.

                So, no “prolonged agony”. that’s beingoverly dramatic.

        • LOL! Newt fuckin’ Gingrich!!!? its done no more hearings, either prove some sort of convictable offense or move on! I doubt they’re gonna bother holding another prime time hearing. show’s over. its only gonna hurt the Dems come Nov.

          https://www.latimes.com/politics/story/2022-09-01/what-is-the-tv-schedule-for-the-next-jan-6-committee-hearingsSEPT. 1, 2022 5:32 PM PT

          The House Jan. 6 select committee is expected hold at least one more hearing in September. But it has raised so many questions about the events surrounding the attack the U.S. Capitol that it’s unclear whether the panel will get to them all.

          No date has been announced yet for the next hearing, and panel members have been coy about their plans. Instead, they’ve stressed how much information they’ve been collecting and how much more needs to be said.

          On Thursday, the committee revealed a new area of inquiry: It asked former House Speaker Newt Gingrich (R-Ga.) to testify voluntarily about his “role in spreading misinformation about the election in the days leading up to the December 14, 2020, meeting of the Electoral College.” According to the committee, “evidence shows that Mr. Gingrich pushed messages designed to incite anger among voters even after Georgia election officials had faced intimidation and threats of violence.”

          • JoeAm says:

            The House Committee is not a criminal agency, but a place to legislate and oversee. They have done masterful work so far uncovering Trump’s direct role, complicity of house reps, and deleted security texts. They are produced by a professional filmmaker to hold audience and will proceed if there is a story to tell. Only the backers of insurrection, predominantly rich white men, object to their work.

            • On one hand they wanna portray Trump as a dope, now they wanna portray him as some mastermind. Doesn’t work both ways, Joe. either he’s one or the other. in the end, people wanna see results. if Trump is a criminal lets have a trial.

              No trial people start to yawn.

  6. NHerrera says:

    I agree. The deterioration of an educational system that is effective and incorporating, among others, critical thinking, over the years — halted or improved, by Pres Benigno Aquino — is the single most important current and future risks to the country. From such a poor stock of the young, growing to adulthood and beyond, flows the other problems, I say.

    Here is where we need a @LCpl_X to give his prolific ideas or shake Officialdom in its complacency or neglect, I believe. Although Lance’s barrage of ideas and suggestions may be overwhelming and uncomfortable to the Administration and he may be labeled a terrorist instead. 🤣

  7. Another item that might also be relevant to the current blog is cancel culture, specifically gov’t cancelling historical names and places,

    “Original Naming

    The Army established what was then called Camp Bragg in

    1918 as an artillery training ground and as part of the rap-
    id expansion of America’s military for World War I. It was

    named after Braxton Bragg, a slave owning plantation owner
    and senior Confederate Army officer. He is considered one
    of the worst generals of the Civil War; most of the battles he
    was involved in ended in defeat and resulted in tremendous
    losses for the Confederate Army; highly consequential to the

    ultimate defeat of the Confederacy. Bragg was temperamen-
    tal, a harsh disciplinarian, and widely disliked in the pre-Civ-
    il War U.S. Army and within the Confederate Army by peers

    and subordinates alike throughout his career.”

    from here: https://www.thenamingcommission.gov/report

    My input, while we’re on a cancel rampage over here why not also cancel George Washington, Jefferson and Thomas Paine (he didn’t own slaves, but was an avid troll and that was way before the internet! 😉 ).

    My point is this is a joke, don’t follow us.

    Although I think IMHO this is what Marcos Sr. did when he made everything Filipino, and that i think we can all agree led to the stupidification of Filipino school system.

    Get more titsers speaking English correct English and you’ll be like Singapore. Instead its this crap:

    “MANILA, Philippines — A progressive teacher’s group on Friday urged President Ferdinand “Bongbong” Marcos Jr. to make Filipino the language of instruction instead of English.

    The Alliance of Concerned Teachers (ACT) chairperson Vladimer Quetua made the call after Marcos said in his inaugural address that English should be the medium of instruction in schools.

    “Language barrier is a basic reason why the Philippines lag behind and our students are at a disadvantage in these tests,” Quetua said, referring to international assessments like the Program for International Student Assessment (Pisa) and Trends in International Mathematics and Science Study (TIMSS).

    Read more: https://newsinfo.inquirer.net/1620452/bongbong-marcos-told-replace-english-with-filipino-as-language-of-instruction

    This is absolute bs, if anything cancelling English will only make others in ASEAN and other third world surpass the Philippines.

    The Philippines’ claim to fame was they were basically Americans, best speakers of English in that part of the world, now they suck ass all cuz of the first Marcos filipinizing instruction. now a days the nurses from the Philippines cannot even speak conversational English to their patients.

    bedside care suffers, hospitals here end up going to Nigeria for nurses they can at least carry on a conversation in English. see the cause and effect here?!!!

    So focus on English that’s what separates you all from other 3rd world nations. Don’t cancel it, cancel culture is stoopid.

    War against cancel culture. Revisionist history. all that crap.

    • Marcos didn’t Filipinize the educational system. In fact as an Ilocano like sonny and the late Edgar Lores, he preferred to speak English.

      But the public school system did deteriorate from his time onward, due to:

      1) everybody just passed. I saw how a UP Balara kid dropped out after years of passing without fully meeting requirements and finally just gave up.

      2) the first batch of public school teachers that had started in the 1930s went into pension by the 1970s. Mind you, they brought the Philippines to over 50% literacy just after WW2 from merely 20% literacy in the mid-1930s. The generations taught by them like sonny, Edgar, NHerrera and my father learned really good English. My father went to a public high school and then to UP, nowadays not a very common biography, in that time it was pretty normal.

      3) a lot of public school teachers quit and went for instance to Hong Kong like one I know – she was fed up with the low pay and the sacrifices, opted to be a maid in HK instead, married a Londoner she met there and is now a widow living a quite life in Essex.

      Tagalog got to be really popular from 1998 onwards – Erap and his populist nationalism – and English has been in decline I think since then, even as the call centers did utilize English. Though ability to actually converse in English is another matter than going by BPO scripts.

      • And we shouldn’t forget the exodus of around 2 million Filipinos to the USA from 1965-1985. That is a lot of people considering the population then was just around 40 million. It also meant a lot who spoke English best left the country.

        • Oh you’re right, Ireneo! i thought it was Papa Ferdinand Marcos sr. all this time. Maybe an Anti-Marcos nurse gave me bad info, complaining about the new batches of nurses coming from Philippines. sorry.

          here,

          “Jose Romero served as Secretary of Education to Carlos P. Garcia and Diosdado P. Macapagal from 1959 to 1961 and from 1961 to 1962 respectively. He was then concurrently ex-officio chairman of the Jose Rizal National Centennial Commission, a commission created in 1954 by Ramon Magsaysay to spearhead preparations for the centenary of José Rizal’s birth in 1961. He was also ex-officio chairman of the Board of Regents of the University of the Philippines.

          On 13 August 1959, Romero issued Department Order (D.O.) no. 7, s. 1959 ordering the use of the term Pilipino as the proper name for the national language of the Philippines, which up until that point was referred to as either wikang pambansa or Tagalog.”

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/José_E._Romero#Government_service

          which precedes Marcos by a decade , give or take.

          So when exactly then did Pilipino replace English? in 1987? but quality in English had been eroding since the 60s (or maybe before the 1960s?). this is very interesting now.

          LOL, i got caught up in this whole blame Marcos for everything stuff, LOL!

          • Based on my experience and observation it happened gradually..

            It was Quezon who decreed that the future national language was to be based on Tagalog back in the 1930s, but then Tagalog speakers were just a plurality not a majority.

            After the war migration to Manila did slowly increase the number of speakers, with the subject Pilipino at least formally spreading it across the archipelago, though Visayans and Ilocanos often preferred to speak to Tagalogs etc. in English due to regional pride.

            Before the war Spanish still had been in common use. In fact Spanish was still listed as an official language in the 1935 Constitution but was dropped in the 1973 Constitution.

            Metro Manila which grew exponentially of course kept creating new slang, mixing words from migrant groups into street Tagalog. 1970s activists used Filipino to show their closeness to the people. The Marcos military used Filipino to integrate new recruits as it grew in size.

            It was also in the 1970s that ROTC and CAT switched from English to Tagalog commands. 1970s also saw OPM (Original Pilipino Music) strongly promoted by the regime, with a quota of music in local language in the radios. Bands like Hotdog and Apo Hiking Society, both formed by Ateneans who wouldn’t be caught dead speaking Filipino before, came up. Exclusive school kids started to talk Taglish instead of English within their cliques.

            There was a time when exclusive schools fined kids who were caught speaking any native language on campus, thus forcing them to speak English. Even in the years after 1946.

            Erap in 1998 (the centennial year of the Aguinaldo Republic) spoke Filipino most of the time.

            BTW it was Macapagal in the 1960s who changed the Independence Day from July 4th (based on July 4, 1946) to June 12, based on June 12, 1898. July 4 was still Philippine-American Friendship Day in the 1970s and 1980s, don’t know when that was “cancelled”. Sonny might know better when Camp Murphy of old became Camp Aguinaldo, or Fort McKinley became Fort Bonifacio. Anyhow in the 1970s most people knew what being ABCed meant – being detained and moved around between Aguinaldo, Bonifacio and Crame.

            Istanbul was Constantinople, but why is nobody’s business but the Turks they say. Recto Ave. was once Calle Azcarraga. Old-timers like Nick Joaquin lamented the loss of street names and therefore memory, after much of his beloved old Manila had already been lost to WW2.

            Even Filipino is a moving target. MLQ3 mentioned that Visayan migration simplified the language, as old Tagalog has highly complex grammar which Visayan does not.

            Plus Philippine language policy has been a muddle and is much at fault for the present mess,

            • Karl Garcia says:

              @Irineo
              If you were here in this discussion, it could been answered pronto.

              • So much of this change was in the 70s.

                From Filipino to Pilipino to Filipino, like the way you all use she and he interchangeably since theres no he or she in any Philippine language.

                But the Twitter ask that you’ve posted, karl, everyone i’ve come across say Filipino or Pilipino or Filipino is just Tagalog. Many Visayans are pretty bad at it. hate having to be tested and taught it. a form of colonization really.

                And why English should be the main language there. neutral at the same time useful.

                Ireneo’s gradual decline makes sense. by the 80s and 90s most nurses coming here were already stumbling with their English, then 2000s and on, non-conversational. total lost. lack of command of English.

                from karl’s Wiki link:

                “The national language issue was revived once more during the 1971 Constitutional Convention. While there was a sizable number of delegates in favor of retaining the Tagalog-based national language, majority of the delegates who were non-Tagalogs were even in favor of scrapping the idea of a “national language” altogether.

                A compromise was reached and the wording on the 1973 constitution made no mention of dropping the national language Pilipino or made any mention of Tagalog. Instead, the 1973 Constitution, in both its original form and as amended in 1976, designated English and Pilipino as official languages and provided for development and formal adoption of a common national language, termed Filipino, to replace Pilipino. Neither the original nor the amended version specified either

                Tagalog or Pilipino as the basis for Filipino; Instead, tasking the National Assembly to: take steps toward the development and formal adoption of a common national language to be known as Filipino.

            • sonny says:

              “… Sonny might know better when Camp Murphy of old became Camp Aguinaldo, or Fort McKinley became Fort Bonifacio. ”

              “,,, HB 4047 seeks to amend Republic Act 4434 or the act that changed the name of Camp Frank Murphy to Camp General Emilio Aguinaldo. This took effect on June 19, 1965.”

              https://www.philstar.com/headlines/2019/08/25/1946318/bill-proposes-renaming-camp-aguinaldo-camp-general-antonio-luna

              • sonny says:

                The change from Fort McKinley to Fort Bonifacio might have been done by internal fiat by the AFP; dunno when.

              • Karl Garcia says:

                @Sonny, et al (cross messaging)
                May 14,1949 was when Fort McKinley was renamed to Fort Bonifacio.
                https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_Bonifacio#Postwar_Era

              • Karl Garcia says:

                I continued reading through the wiki article and I saw the name of Irineo’s dad in the Martial law part.

              • Thanks.. 1965 does make sense as Aguinaldo died in 1964.

                https://philippinesfreepress.wordpress.com/1961/03/04/calle-azcarraga-march-4-1961/ – interesting commentary by Nick Joaquin re Recto etc.

              • sonny says:

                “… change from Fort McKinley to Fort Bonifacio might have been done by internal fiat by the AFP; dunno when.”

                Karl, the name Fort McKinley took a long time to fade to attenuated usage among PA personnel who had been stationed at “McKinley.” I remember as late as 1957 “McKinley” was still the preferred name in conversations among “brats” my age.

              • sonny , Ireneo (and karl 😉 ) this Mango Ave. i keep talking about reminiscing in Cebu is actually officially named General Maxilom Ave. but the locals say it was Mango Ave. before, so people just call it that— i don’t know when it was changed to Gen. Maxilom.

                But everyone just calls it that.

              • ha! i found it:

                Let us stop calling it Mango Avenue and Jones Avenue
                CEBUPEDIA – Clarence Paul Oaminal – The Freeman
                February 15, 2019

                “Officially, both Mango Avenue and Jones Avenue no longer exist. They were renamed by law decades ago. Yet not only the civilians, but also the government, are the enablers of the misuse of the street names.

                Mango Avenue was constructed during the American era, it was renamed before World War II as the “General Maxilom Avenue” after the firest Cebuano governor of Cebu and the last general to surrender to the Americans.

                The complete name of Maxilom is Arcadio Molero Maxilom, a public school teacher and Gobernadorcillo of Tuburan, Cebu, who later became the deputy of Pantaleon Villegas, more famously known as Leon Kilat, the chief of the army of the KKK Cebu during the Battle of Tres de Abril (April 3, 1898).

                General Maxilom died on August 10, 1924 and his burial was attended by the first Philippine President, General Emilio Aguinaldo. Years later in his honor, Mango Avenue was renamed as General Maxilom Avenue.

                Jones Avenue has likewise been renamed decades ago. Jones Avenue was renamed by City Ordinance No. 284 on March 29, 1960 as Doña Pepang Avenue (she was the wife of Don Sergio Osmeña Sr.). Jones Avenue is named after Congressman William Atkinson Jones, the author of the Philippine Autonomy Act of 1916, the law that created the Philippine Senate.”

                Does this mean that Mango Ave. had been changed to Gen. Maxilom before WWII?!!! then again Maxilom isn’t enticing for a quasi Red light district. this is why I enjoyed Mango Ave. so much it wasn’t like Angeles or Manila, you walk just one block and it wasn’t the Red light district anymore, you see families dining and such, and the irony of an INC church a big church hovering over said red light district was just comical. so rich in irony. i miss it so.

              • by the way, while we’re reminiscing about CEBU, if any of yous ever wanna get tattoo’ed this guy is solid: https://www.facebook.com/jes.solante

            • Karl Garcia says:

              @Sonny When I was a kid McKInley is still called McKinley, Roxas Blvd was still called Dewey…. Pepsi was called Coke and vice versa….Colgate was called Closeup sometimes. and vice versa, when top 2 brands became generic for sodas and tooth paste maybe more.

              I imagine can I buy Coke but I prefer Pepsi please then can I buy Colgate pero yung closeup ha.

              @LCX,
              There you go again as if remembering your first time.

              MY FIRST TIME

              The sky was dark,the moon was high all alone just her and i,…….

              I won’t continue because spoiler alert it is all double meaning PG stuff but here is the link

              https://www.write4fun.net/view-entry/575

      • Karl Garcia says:

        The 1973 contitution had our national language to be English and Pilipino that is why it became Filipino.

  8. Karl Garcia says:

    My lament that the Police should handle Internal Security and Military should only assist changed or paused during Mamasapano.
    It was Carlos who made me think that way because when she was head of the National Defense College during Erap’s time she said that the Military should concentrate on External defense. It fell into deaf ears because we had an all out war in Mindanao.

    • kasambahay says:

      there was big bounty involved in m’sapano and the biggest whisper of the time was broadcast via cellphone network. the people involved could not keep the secret and texted their families, then their families spread the text among their friends, and the rest is one big conundrum.

      • kasambahay says:

        there are times when I agree with the military, they must know when to shut up and when to step in. I think, the military answer straight to their chief commanding officer, the president, and not to carlos.

  9. NHerrera says:

    OT, but partly on topic only since US President Joe Biden talks about the defense of the US democracy.

    Below is NYT’s full transcript of Pres Joe Biden’s Speech in Philadelphia on September 1.

    I like Biden talking the talk [speech]. Somehow, I appreciate more reading the speech transcript. Can this be judged as his best speech to date? I think so. And he is in top form.

    • isk says:

      “Can this be judged as his best speech to date?”
      ————–
      Hmm, to 74+ million Americans who voted for Mr. Trump may have a different opinion .

      • JoeAm says:

        Why, they disagree with the ideals of what America stands for, honesty, loyalty, and allegiance to the Constitution? Or they think Republican extremists are true patriots? What was objectionable about the speech to a mainstream Republican? Quote the parts.

        • isk says:

          “MAGA forces are determined to take this country backwards,” Biden said, “backwards to an America where there is no right to choose, no right to privacy, no right to contraception, no right to marry who you love.”
          ———
          I think there’s a problem with the sentiment of the speech writer/s.

          • JoeAm says:

            So people who are opposed to a woman’s right to medical care, opposed to personal privacy pertaining to medical care, opposed to contraception, or opposed to gay marriages would not care for the speech. Fair enough. From my vantage point, I’d say Biden is correct. That would be unwinding about a century of compassion, in favor of control. Talibanesque.

            • JoeAm says:

              And he said MAGA forces, which is not 71 million.

              • isk says:

                “MAGA Republicans have made their choice. They embrace anger. They thrive on chaos. They live, not in the light of truth but in the shadow of lies. But together, together, we can choose a different path. We can choose a better path forward to the future, a future of possibility, a future to build a dream and hope, and we’re on that path moving ahead.”
                ————
                Again, the speech writer/s failed to see that the policies of this administration is the problem why there’s much resentment from the conservatives. Something like if they don’t agree with this regime, they are threat to the American Republic.

              • Micha says:

                Like what particular policies do you have in mind, isk?

              • isk says:

                @ Sir Micha
                Number 1 is the policy of compassion.
                Most undocumented individuals are economic migrants but with uncontrolled migration …
                https://www.foxnews.com/us/eight-migrants-found-dead-texas-border-53-apprehended-trying-cross-rio-grande
                And not to mention the 53 migrants found dead in a tractor-trailer truck some weeks ago.
                Then the debt forgiveness of student loan. According to some, this is unfair to those who opted not to get college education or to those who paid responsibly for their education.

              • isk,

                I myself think debt forgiveness is good, sucks for those students that work their way thru school to stay away from debt, but overall in general colleges should cost less, maybe MMT can help in this, but the principle is encourage high education. I’d say apprenticeship programs too should be encourage with more grants (not loans). make that route feasible. theres people who are better with their hands and outside corporate bureacratic settings.

                But this open border stuff is a disaster, cuz when Trump left office Mexico was literally our wall, they were holding people at their Mexico’s southern border. then Biden said, let them come. And came they went. So that is probably the biggest Biden failure. whatever your feelings are about open borders, Mexico holding migrants at their southern border of Mexico, logistically speaking was the best situation. Why screw that up, for political points?!!! c’mon…

              • Micha says:

                I don’t recall that Biden’s admin advocated for or has initiated an open border policy.

                If some people opted not to get college education, it’s completely within the parameters of their own decision. How is debt forgiveness to those who did considered unfair?

              • JoeAm says:

                There is no open border policy, just not a closed border. It’s the same o same o allocation method always used. And it is certainly not worth overthrowing government over or falling in line behind the big lie because, wow, it sure feels good to beat on people.

                The debt forgiveness helps a whole lot of people and is a form of income reallocation from rich to poor. The idea that you can’t help anybody because you are not helping everybody seems a little, well, unhelpful.

                So, yes, you are right.

              • “President Biden is promising kinder, more welcoming immigration policies — and raising hopes for asylum-seekers throughout the hemisphere.

                Earlier this week, Guatemalan police beat back a caravan of thousands of Hondurans who were beginning the long trek to the United States border. Moreover, conditions driving people from their home countries — crime, violent spouses, joblessness and hurricane destruction — are not going away.

                And this is what makes Texas border mayors nervous.

                “It’s not difficult to predict that we’re gonna see some more individuals coming across our borders,” says Trey Mendez, mayor of Brownsville, Texas. “So any sort of policy that may allow more individuals to cross is something we want to coordinate with the federal government.””
                https://www.npr.org/2021/01/22/959664319/asylum-seekers-hope-bidens-pledge-to-welcome-immigrants-includes-them

                that was early 2021, now we know whats going on at the border.

                Again,

                Trump left with Mexico as our wall. Biden threw that all out, baby with the bath water.

                re loan forgiveness, Micha.

                I agree “unfair” is not the correct word re loan forgiveness, but the principle here is get into debt so you can be forgiven, where the principle should be don’t get into debt period. But then again college costs are so expensive there s no way no debt is a realistic route.

                There should be a program to celebrate those students that worked and not get into debt, but that would be a more difficult program to do logistically.

                So offer more grants and scholarship, and/or lower costs.

                My bias tho is against gender and race studies and all the soft sciences, cuz that only gurantees loans you can’t pay, becuz Starbucks don’t pay so much. So target these grants and scholarships, free gov’t money, towards the hard sciences, then stop importing immigrants to cover this shortage in skilled educated hard sciences work visas.

                Easy peazy.

              • Micha says:

                There are no open borders. There are still national guards and dogs and drones patrolling our borders. The asylum seekers still do get processed in an immigration facility. The process and the criteria for admission might have been changed in some way under the current admin but that’s a far cry from being called an open border.

              • We’re not talking about those going thru proper channels in crossing the border, Micha, we’re talking about those being ferreted by coyotes or crossing on their own,

                So its pretty much an open border, Micha. and it spiked with Biden.

              • Micha says:

                They were caught. Apprehended. Taken into custody.

                And gets processed in an immigration facility.

                Those who qualify, get through. Those who do not, get sent back.

                That’s not an open border policy.

                An open border means everyone and everybody get through.

                No apprehensions.

                Clear?

              • You know they get sent to Chicago and NYC and LA , right Micha?

                Under trump they were turned back sent back all of them, under Biden they are let in if they’re kids, or mothers, or families.

                Thus less and less single males come over, they accompany kids or moms. it becomes a 2 for 1. thus more thus that spike.

              • “There is no open border policy, just not a closed border.”

                IT’s

                Either one or the other , Joe, cannot be both.

                (oh, and it s really difficult to find your answers if you slip it in between old comments, so sorry in advance if i miss one ).

              • JoeAm says:

                Immigration is allocated by country or group, neither open nor closed. America is a nation of immigrants. MAGA wants that changed.

                My admin screen lines up the comments, and I respond to them.

              • I’m not talking about legal immigration , Joe.

                I’m talking about the illegal type, crossing the border and getting thru. also over staying.

                That spiked during Biden’s watch, while it was considerably lower during Trump due to his hard stance and essentially Mexico being our wall (with migrants stopped at the southern border of Mexico).

                I could care less about legal immigration, though take offense at worker visa for skilled work when we are pushing gender and race studies in college, instead of the hard sciences, that needs fixin’. why not bring up our skilled professional pool, instead of all this social science degrees.

              • JoeAm says:

                Yes, firmness is in order. Cruelty, not.

              • isk says:

                @ Sir Lance on debt forgiveness,
                ———-

              • JoeAm says:

                @isk,

                I worked to put myself through school. Paperboy, box boy, mail delivery over Christmas, student assistant in the dorm to sleep free. This yahoo wants me to be mad because other people catch a break from Biden? No, I’m happy for them.

                And he thinks the loan forgiveness is the top of Biden’s agenda? No, he has a whole host of things he’s working on. This just got done and publicized. These emotionalized, fallacious arguments are the problem. Not loan forgiveness.

                Sorry, I didn’t watch the rest. He’s pushing political agenda, not helping people.

              • JoeAm says:

                Joe Biden is the Noynoy Aquino of America. A good guy that opponents trash to promote an insurrectionist, thief, liar, fraud, and traitor. Filipinos say, “Been there, done that!”

              • I’m with Joe here , isk.

                Its good stop gap, but even better is more affordable college education. right now higher education is like a big scam. with graduates unable to do anything with their B.A.s. fix that.

                but loan forgiveness is a good break.

              • isk ,

                Here s Biden’s Border Patrol Chief:

              • isk,

                I also just wanna add that as a PhD in Google I have no loans to forgive, but that I did enjoy 3 stimulus checks (3,000 plus bucks) courtesy of the US gov’t, I didn’t ask why they’re giving this to me, I just said thank you motherfackers, because I knew and have seen all the bricks of money we threw away in Afghanistan and Iraq.

                This loan forgiveness stuff pales in comparison.

                It’s fucked, isk, the system is fucked. instead of focusing on small potatoes, tackle the big problems like money creation, the Philippines needs UBI, and MMT and CBDC (Bitcoin too). that last bit is to bait Micha. 😉

              • Karl Garcia says:

                Micha knows a bait or a trap from light years away.
                If it is worth his while why not? Again I am being too literal.

              • Micha’s still trying to figure out why its hovering around 20K and not going to zero, karl. its plateauing upside down. Go down already you worthless digital stuff of no value!!! LOL!

              • Micha says:

                @corporal
                You already knew where I stand on bitcoin – it has negative zero value due to its excessive use of electrical power. It’s only being kept afloat now by hedge funders and private equity exchangers who invested billions of dollars (dollars!) on what many call the scam of the century.

                I just watch in delight as the squirrels start scramming away.

  10. Karl Garcia says:

    I fully understand Joe’s uncomfortability with group tagging. I told Chemmy that it was ok sending me his articles. It was ok then because it was just in messenger. But when he started group tagging in FB I got uncomfortable and fast. At first I just untagged my self a lot, but can’t do that everyday. So I just let it be.

  11. Juan Luna says:

    On the title of, WHO EXACTLY IS THE PHILIPPINES DEFENDING AGAINST?, the line ‘a picture is worth a thousand words’ comes to mind.

    Since the picture shows a military vessel it is safe to assume the ‘defense’ part of the title is geared toward military-related matters and challenges that faces the country at present. And out of the four attacking forces the writer enumerated, one is a stand-out for being a non-military related (the Inability to read and do math).

    As to the military part, I agree, threats remain from the cited forces (Muslim, NPA, China). But more than military, I think, and I’m sure it’s being done already, government outreach, provision for economic packages, political participation, economic activities, etc. are more than necessary, particularly on the two pestering domestic problems we have with the communists and muslim insurgents.

    With regard to China, yes, she can be a legitimate enemy but also a possible legitimate friend and ally defending on the promulgation of policies from both sides.

    Can we defend against China militarily? No. Defending should not be in our vocabulary when we speak of China. We should focus more on offense toward her in terms of economic, military and political cooperation. I know we are being bullied by her in the South China Sea. But that is how superpowers conduct business. We should pursue our interest by being aggressive on the diplomatic side of it and make clear with China that, in spite of claims with the contested territories in the Pacific, we want to co-exist with her peacefully and fairly.

    • “Can we defend against China militarily? No.”

      Its as simple as inviting the US back in, Juan. with the US there China backs off. but realistically, China doesn’t really need the Philippines, it can by pass it focusing on say Papua New Guinea instead much more to offer w/out all the drama and corruption. then, Australia invites the US in. The US military is your solution. no matter how you cut , its the US military as solution to any Philippine military dilemma with China.

    • JoeAm says:

      The Philippine position on joint development is that it is in Philippine territory so it has to be under Philippine laws. China says no, so there is no joint development. So what you say is exactly the policy. But China won’t play. But she stays in Philippine seas, taking the fish.

    • Juan Luna says:

      Its as simple as inviting the US back in, Juan. with the US there China backs off. – LCpl_X
      – – – – –
      And after the smoke clears, RP will be a speck of dust in the middle of the Pacific ocean? 😄

      • Was that happened after WWII? i surmise something similar will happen after a China vs. US war. But then again i’m of the mind that this China vs. US war will be played out in space, and whoever controls space controls earth.

        Again the Philippines isn’t needed by China, nor the US, except for the fact that it get s the US ‘s foot in the door of SE Asia.

  12. Karl Garcia says:

    The National Service Training Program can make literacy program possible and a reality.
    Why fix when it aint broke
    Military service is still there, sometime people are forced to take military service training in school for lack of literacy training program offerings
    so what’s the fuzz and what’s the buzz?

    And who would enroll in Civic services when civic service is an alien concept except for elections.

  13. Karl Garcia says:

    Insurrection Act:
    It has been there since 1807 but somebody told Trump that it is an option, now everybody knows about it.

    Is the US Sri-Lanka proof or Thailand proof or even Philippines proof?

    The Military and the national guard never thought about the insurrection act but they were surely trained for it. What do they do?

    That is the future of US Civil-Miltary Relations.

    Another round of what could have gone wrong papers to be submitted to the Homeland Security office NSA, Joint Chiefs etc.

  14. Karl Garcia says:

    @ISK
    Thread too long to butt in
    What you were asking for regarding borders is short for building a wall that I want to know what happened and thanks too he the advent(a yearly event) of fact checkers wiki is now considered credible.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trump_wall

    It is not power tool proof so smugglers can still penetrate it.

    A whack a mole cat and mouse game. Where all the guard monitoring a cctv can do is press an alarm, then too late for the cavalry ,Sarah Connor and the Terminator already hijacked a plane.

    • Karl Garcia says:

      Debt forgivenes.

      Here in PH we do not question SSS loan condonation amnesties or even Tax amnesties why would it be any different from a College debt forgiveness?

      We are international observers here, and we must remove any blinders and tunnels. You already answered my question if you were US based before?

      • JoeAm says:

        The issue isn’t debt forgiveness, or the covid payments made to some, not all, but how to attack Biden on everything. That is the conservative strategy, fully announced, and why Senate votes are not bipartisan, on the merits of the issues, but 100% opposed to anything Biden does. Debt forgiveness helps a lot of people. Paid for by taxes on rich people. Win win, except if you are against anyone winning under Biden.

        • Karl Garcia says:

          That is clear enough. Even a win win could be turned into zero sum or lose lose in the present case of anything so long as it is against Biden.
          That can happen to Trump if he wins next( a big if: outsider’s view)

      • isk says:

        It seems the issue divided Americans. Those who took loans for their PhDs and the likes vs to those who worked for their education .

        Tax amnesty is being applied to businesses that went “kaput” or “nalulugi” , ” walang kita”, show me the books they said . For debt payment, refinancing is the way to go I think. Some of these students enjoyed college life in Florida or in the Bahamas during school breaks. While some worked hard between school time and break time to supplement their needs. So let them be responsible citizens, apply the contract and obligation they learned during their studies in my opinion.

        • Karl Garcia says:

          To say it does not apply to all is oversimplification too because you are more than 50 percent correct. Here State Universities get populated by those who can afford crowding out the real scholars ng bayan. If that is the case where groupies tag along with a rich kid ala almost every rich kid student movie I watched.

          If all part time CEOS(there are a lot) were product of student loans then you provide a clear picture but PHD c-Suites? that is one in a million.
          So PHDs who benefitted are either in the academe or Think tanks and writing a paper on the follies of student loans.

          • Karl Garcia says:

            Refinancing.
            Was that Serbia or Montenegro who is finding ways to refinance unfinished bridges by China..because China sold them the moon and they bought it.

            That is what government is doing loans to pay loans
            We do that all the time.
            But with high inflation the interest rates may go lower but not overnight due to expected delays for it to take effect.
            So would refinancing be the way to go instead of forgiveness? As all the ambidextrous economists say: “It depends”

            • isk says:

              Am talking about students’ loan lowering or abolishing interest rate but not to cancel the debt.
              A unilateral decision by the executive office I think is not the way to go.

              • Karl Garcia says:

                Again using Triage in the ER , people go ballistic if they were not given care first even if they see someone unconscious and bleeding to death.
                I think the executive action is a form of triage, you attend to those in need first.
                How is that unfair? I know life is unfair but how could debt forgiveness given the current circumstances be unfair?
                Here in PH.
                Doikno was stupid for saying what he did not mean, Ayuda was a waste of time and resources
                What the Fuck?!

              • In the ER its the folks that moan and groan and cry the loudest. but some dude bleeding internally that looks healthy that could very well die there is overlooked.

                Lesson : when in ER you have to act be in pain exaggerate your symptoms. they’ll prioritize you. squekiest wheel gets the grease, karl.

              • My point, loan forgiveness was heard because a lot of loanee complaints; people with no debt didn’t complain, so you have to organized and ask stuff fromt he gov’t. that’s how democracy works!

                Don’t get butt hurt later because people used the levers of democracy to get what they want. learn and get what you want. participate. Lesson: squekiest wheel gets the grease.

              • Karl Garcia says:

                @LCX in the pit stop in a race track that is triage too but the axle or the wheel screw of the unattended wheels might still give way later. so spare a few seconds more to greese all four wheels for sure. That is ISK’s argument, I suppose.

                Using your internal injury example there.

          • isk says:

            Compassion is fine, condonation maybe good too but to what extent ? But I hear you and all others’ take on this divisive issue in America.

            In this forum, “equity” seems to be favored rather than fairness.

            Thanks everyone.

            • JoeAm says:

              The loans are to get an education to get a job then covid hit and no jobs exist but loans are due. Banks are bailed out and companies go bankrupt and start over but kids and low income families get no help? I dunno. Seems rather harsh to me. But then I always was a softie.

      • Karl Garcia says:

        Whose fault is it? Was it a low-maintenance project to begin with? With that wall how can there be open boarders like you implied?

        • I’m pretty sure its corten steel and its suppose to rust, its still good just needs an administration with the balls to put it up. and stop lolly gagging with illegal immigration at the souther border (CA, AZ, NM and TX), there will be more climate migrants. or do what Trump did and make Mexico our wall.

          but that rust is not a structural issue, isk.

          • from isk’s link:

            “Even after Trump lost his reelection bid, crews continued blasting mountains, cutting road, and raising bollards until January 20, when the Biden administration took power and indefinitely paused construction. On his first day in office, President Biden declared, “It shall be the policy of my Administration that no more American taxpayer dollars be diverted to construct a border wall.” (Nonetheless, a levee-cum-border-wall is currently going up in South Texas.)

            Biden’s day-one proclamation laid out a series of steps designed to stop wall construction, including terminating Trump’s state of national emergency on the southern border and redirecting funds away from border-wall projects managed by the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers. But contracts had already been signed with construction companies, and materials already delivered. Biden’s proclamation did not specify what to do with all the steel.

            Use it!!!

            as a taxpayer that’s probably about the only expenditure I can get behind, build that wall!!!

        • isk says:

          @ Sir Karl
          Open border is somewhat a “stinger” to the incumbent US administration. I don’t use it, instead I posted “Most undocumented individuals are economic migrants but with uncontrolled migration …” with a link from Fox News . My apology.
          Some of these migrants travelled by foot to get to the US, quite amazing determination in search for a greener pasture.
          https://www.cfr.org/article/crossing-darien-gap-migrants-risk-death-journey-us

  15. Karl Garcia says:

    @LCX
    If I ask you something on twitter would you be as accommodating as here in TSOH.
    I tried it once and I mentioned you in an existing discussion, but what if it is stand alone just you and me at the start? So long as there is sense, are you allowed by the USMC to engage? Because I am 100 percent sure TSOH is invisible to the USMC because of the cloaking devices you set up.

    • I’m not here in an official capacity, karl. as for my Twitter i think its more a means to log into these discussions, but there are times i scroll thru interesting post series, but the format isn’t very conducive to reading, i get more ideas from reading say Ireneo’s posts here, et al.

      But i’ll play along, but if it gets unproductive, i’d rather just post here.

      • Karl Garcia says:

        ok. Maybe If I dare delve into Yemen again or South Asia, I will mention you quoting a content or I ask a question. Plus your favorite topics perhaps degrowth,cbdc,etc. I will think of something eventually.

      • Karl Garcia says:

        I read your sentiment about being lost in the discussions on twitter.
        OK TSOH is more navigation friendly no matter the configuration of the road network.

        • JoeAm says:

          The information on Twitter can be managed by following just a few select people who generally produce insight. It is more a medium for receiving information and outputting some, but not for robust discussion.

  16. NHerrera says:

    OT

    The statistics show. In an NYT guest essay, Tom Bonier writes:

    *****
    For many Americans, confronting the loss of abortion rights [from SCOTUS Dobbs Decision] was different from anticipating it…Women are registering to vote in numbers I’ve never witnessed. In Kansas — 69 percent of those new registrants were women… Already, several Republicans seem to be sensing that they’re in trouble…some candidates wiped language advocating extreme abortion restrictions from their website.
    *****
    In my take-off from the current blog topic, the US women are defending their rights previously assured in the SC decision previous to Dobbs.

    Interesting dynamics in a still functioning democracy. Pres Biden wants to keep it that way. He, too, like the women voting registrants, is fired up.

    • NHerrera says:

      In the same link, interestingly, the writer quotes Justice Samuel Alito who wrote in the majority decision in Dobbs: “Women are not without electoral or political power.”

      Indeed. I hope that becomes the case too in the PH!

  17. Juan Luna says:

    “Inability to read and do math”

    This refers to the education part as one attacking force that continues to bogged the country down. The Philippine educational system has been a model for other Southeast Asian countries in the past and while it remains coherent in existence the process of deterioration continues to remain.

    I can only name some that I think were the major issues affecting the entire educational system.

    -Budget – the Philippines remains to have one of the lowest budget allocations to education among ASEAN countries.

    -Affordability of education – this affects the socioeconomically disadvantage students where the drop-out rate is high.

    -Underpaid and overworked teachers

    -Quality of education – In the year 2014, the National Achievement Test (NAT) and the National Career Assessment Examination (NCAE) results show that there had been a decline in the quality of Philippine education at the elementary and secondary levels.

    Surprisingly, I do not remember candidates in the recent presidential elections, aside from announcement that Sara Duterte will be the education secretary, make education as centerpiece platform and put emphasis on its importance as one pillar that will make a difference in the country’s future growth.

  18. Micha says:

    Lorraine Badoy and her army of right wing loons are ganging up on Senator Legarda because the latter suggested a review of our anti-terrorism law.

    They even hinted that Senator Legarda is a card carrying member of the Communist Party of the Philippines. Que horror!

    • Karl Garcia says:

      Her sibling is so different. Gang is the exact opposite of her sister.
      The last post I saw from Irineo on twitter was about Lorraine Badoy and he got suspended. I maybe imagining stuff but maybe he got targetted, monitored then mass reported.

      • Micha says:

        Therese Gang Badoy is her half-sister. Isang tatay magka-ibang nanay, apparently.

        Thing is, Lorraine Badoy’s stunts are getting oxygen support from the AFP’s intelligence service (and who knows from where else beyond AFP).

        • Karl Garcia says:

          In my lifetime I encountered people from both sides.
          My uncle (dad’s second cousin)had leftist beliefs and got nabbed by ISAFP less than 2 decades ago.
          Then the Flag Lieutenant of my dad become an intelligence officer eventually in the navy.

          • Karl Garcia says:

            Ack sorry for my errors. Sent too soon again.

            • kasambahay says:

              https://www.rappler.com/newsbreak/iq/list-complaints-filed-against-lorraine-badoy/

              quite popular la badoy is! as lawyer, she can only redtagged and allegedly gas bagged. la badoy could have aced legarda under terrorism act and take legarda to military court, legarda being army reservist.

              kaso, la badoy mayhap knows she’s only one legged and needs a cavalry to take on legarda who is elected official, and has more voters than la badoy has followers.

              • Karl Garcia says:

                My problem typing about Badoy is her brother is a highschool batchmate I interact daily in our viber group. And we are not invisible like I often times ignore.
                But she has no business manning NTF elcac and the task force should be abolished.
                now as to the iSAFP i won’t regret typing that they “arrested” my uncle before but if hey went beyond their job that is another story. all I can say or do is grrrr.

              • Micha says:

                Thanks for the link. These groups and individuals must be encouraged to push back harder on this witch because she’s been doing these malicious red-tagging with impunity and there’s been no update on the progress of those official complaints or whether those have prospered at all.

              • kasambahay says:

                “Communications. The NTF-ELCAC has eight spokespersons, each dedicated to certain matter/s.”

                la badoy was appointed as one of ntf-elcac spokesperson handling social media/public relations, a spruiker in me opinion.

                pbbm is now head of ntf-elcac having inherited the agency from ex pres duterte.

                incidentally, pbbm’s national security appointee clarita carlos is firing broadside arrows and has yet hit a specific target. I was hoping la carlos will go head to head with la badoy and check her, but now both seems to be in concerted ‘la union’!

              • Micha says:

                Not familiar with its history, but I suppose NTF-ELCAC is a brainchild of retired general Antonio Parlade. Both Badoy and Parlade are regular hosts in a free-to-air TV network, SMNI, owned by Pastor Quiboloy, the son of God and Duterte’s favorite priest.

                Besides Badoy and Parlade, Juan Ponce Enrile, Sass Sasot, and Salvador Panelo are also regular features of the network dishing out right wing propaganda.

              • kasambahay says:

                https://www.philstar.com/headlines/2021/07/01/2109475/parlade-resigns-ntf-elcac-spox-ease-pressure-body

                parlade was supposed to be one of infamous ntf-elcac spokespersons manning its military arm. his resignation is so pakitang tao on the surface, he’s still far from weaned.

              • Karl Garcia says:

                To repeat what you said as I understood it, kb
                His running for president is why he resigned which makes it uber pakitang tao. He is retired but just a text or call away from badoy.

              • kasambahay says:

                true, though parlade did not make it to the final ten presidential candidates 2022.

                btw, nice pic you posted karlG, the meeting between security officials and acting officer in charge inday sara. my disgustingly funny bone is saying parang biernes santo baga, none of the officials leaned towards sara, they probly think her usurper, lol!

                or maybe, keeping their distance sila, and ready to bolt, in case sara lose her cool at mabugbog sila!

              • Karl Garcia says:

                Reminds me of the poor sheriff. But it is best foot forward, so a front kick is more likely to happen.

  19. Karl Garcia says:

    “But all these talking heads on TV are talking about sources and methods, well sources and methods don’t leave whatever agency owns those sources and methods, so chances are 99.9 % no sources and methods are with Trump.”

    @LCX Very Chempoesque
    again not saying it is wrong.
    The thing is he often advises me to fact check on my own, fact check where exactly? On his list of sources? Which I did not bother to ask.
    My default is wiki ,google news yahoo news msn news depending on my mood. Sometimes I forward it on twitter and get a warning that these tweet is from an article by the Chinese communist party. Oops my bad.

    • JoeAm says:

      One of the best way of figuring out the bias of the commenter is to check his sources. By the way, CNN in the US is firing their journalists and hiring right wing pundits, essentially becoming Fox 2.0 to try to gain audience. Their chairman is a billionaire Trump donor. I don’t know what affect that will have on CNN Ph.

      • Karl Garcia says:

        Another pertinent guideline from you Joe. Thanks.

        I hope Pia Hontiveros the sister of the lone Opposition in the senate will tell us about it soon enough.

      • karl,

        I’m a PhD in Google, but much of my knowledge comes from talking to people too. which means i have to find links to support what I already know personally.

        If you doubt the above statement you’ve quoted, simply test it. Think about it, if sources and methods left the agencies that are responsible for them, and spilt into civilians and policy makers all the time, then there would be leaks galore all the time.

        hence the stewardship. you burn sources and methods and they’re burnt forever, the fancy tech and humans involved cultivated years even decades, that’s why these things are well guarded.

        start here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligence_cycle

        The collection part is where sources and methods come into play.

        Processing it, the sources and methods are wiped clean and all you have is the intelligence.

        Then it goes to the PhDs (real PhDs not PhDs in Google, karl) then analyzed and compared to other intelligence of the same or similar subject matter and then make further assessments. cross checked verified, etc.

        sources and methods don’t factor in the analysis portion. just the veracity of the information.

        They only factor in, when there’s only one source of the intelligence, like the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curveball_(informant) case, so due to lack of confirmability the sources and/or methods come into play. and factors in the dissemination.

        Policy makers want insurance and or hedge their bets. but thats rare.

        Usually when the intelligence is sent up to policy makers, disseminated to them, they won’t bother asking about sources and methods, it doesn’t concern them , is why.

        If sources and methods are disseminated, they don’t leave them with the policy makers for policy makers to dick around with, they bring that info back, thus it cannot end up in Mar a Lago. probability wise if it did, the operations folks fucked up in sharing sources and methods.

        Thus in general policy makers just want the intelligence and the accompanying analysis. not the sources and methods, karl.

        And that’s 99.9% of how it works. it’s a simple process really that i don’t see being addressed on TV or newspaper. the unlikelihood of sources and methods being at mar a Lago.

        • JoeAm says:

          Scientific papers always document their sources. Knowledge depends on verification, not taking someone at their word. The unreliable parallel plane to knowledge is conspiracy belief, one of the current trends leading to the stupidification of humankind.

          • @Joe,

            If you read back up in our Jan 6. thread with Juan, I didn’t really cite sources, I just assumed that Juan and Joe knew how the US gov’t worked and proceeded to prosecute this whole notion of Jan. 6 could’ve ended the US or democracy, etc.

            That is a sky is falling propaganda being touted as fact– a sure thing that could’ve happened that day.

            I proved that its complete bs, using what we know of how the US gov’t works. Fact isn’t 0% and 100%, not binary, somewhere in between is where we usually draw our conclusions, its not either or but gradations of possibilities, Joe. and I proved where the actual likelihood sits (you and Juan attempted your own counterfactuals which were found wanting).

            to recap RE Jan. 6:

            We examined counterfactuals and concluded that had Mike Pence sided with Trump SCOTUS would’ve been involved, if SCOTUS factored in then all election fraud cases in various Fed courts already rejected would come into play, thus Biden president elect would still have been president.

            Then we examined if the mob did control the Capitol what would’ve happened then. these processes are in place that we can with just a bit of reasoning conclude on our own without the TV pundits & “experts”, and conclude, hey the police and military would’ve surrounded the Capitol and

            either seige scenario takes place or an all out blood bath with police and military shooting all of the mob, realistically though it would’ve been more like a hostage situation, with deals made, then 4-6,000 (again actual number unknown) slowly coming out, with maybe 100 really serious Trumpists holding out, then those 100 or so would be shot dead.

            Problem solved, president elect Biden still becomes President.

            These are just processes, Joe. I’m not making a proposition that’s so out of the ordinary that I need to cite sources, I’m simply talking about processes, now sure the TS/SCI or even classification process maybe arcane. that’s largely the reason theres no source to cite here.

            But you can test it yourself using your own critical thinking skills,

            does it make sense to share information on sources and methods, when consumers that is policy makers just need the intelligence, and not the sources and methods. Reason tells us because i’ve outlined how important sources and methods are, they won’t willy nilly just end up anywhere they are well guarded and if divulged to policy makers they are simply read-in (and counterintelligence takes note of who’s read-in),

            any physical documentation is safe guarded returning back to the agency responsible.

            So the likelihood of these sources and methods ending up unnecessarily somewheres else in physical format no less… is highly unlikely.

            You don’t need really need citations or links, or academic or peer reviews for this, Joe,

            like the Jan. 6 thread you simply have to gauge if one scenario is more likely than the other. if you’re saying ‘Yeah LCPL_X, makes more sense that intelligence agencies will willy nilly just give paper copies divulging their sources and methods to policy makers’, then you’re buying into a narrative that’s fundamentally unsound.

            because the process prioritizes the protection of sources and methods.

            Either sources and methods are important or they are not,

            I’m saying they are safe guarded, its the crown jewels of any intelligence organization. ducks that lay golden eggs.

            • JoeAm says:

              Thanks for your opinion. We’ll see how it plays out.

              • JoeAm says:

                @LCX,

                The referenced study here is what I would term ‘knowledge’ directed, versus peddling personal conspiracy theories. It sets the context, has methodology in how information is gathered objectively, draws together a logical set of conclusions, expresses the future in terms of probabilities, and suggests what Americans can do to preserve democracy. It has no black and white conclusions to peddle. It doesn’t use ‘sky is falling’ pejoratives to diminish other views. Your methodology is a form of disciplined argument demanding others abide by your reasoning. I admire your diligence and skill, but it’s a path down the rabbit hoke of emotionalized ignorance, and I am claustrophobic.

                The study can be downloaded without charge.

                https://curate.nd.edu/show/0z708w35m4g

              • JoeAm says:

                Or, as I said in a tweet yesterday:

                “There are two opposing forces at work on social media, a drive for knowledge and a drive for power. Trolls, fallacies, conspiracy theories, liars, obnoxious insult vendors, and arrogance drive the latter. The joy of discovery drives the former. You can’t discover without honesty.”

              • This is about election stuff, Joe, where I was talking about TS/SCI and Jan. 6 (and below Insurrection Act and Posse Comitatus, per karl’s link).

                I don’t understand how its relevant.

                As i’ve already stated 2 years ago when talking with chempo (I think it was two years ago but that Phoenix counting of votes stuff but you were participant too), that every county gets to count, thus my confidence in the 2020 election. because county officials do this regularly and overseen by a bunch of volunteers.

                I never said Biden is not the US president , nor parrotted any voter fraud stuff.

                I’ll read the link because its interesting and I agree a better product of research which I am not attempting to copy here in the blogs commentary, my PhD in Google would be laughed at at any academic institution. Google and access to actual findings its no comparison , Joe.

                But I’ll read it. in the mean time, please explain how its relevant to the topics already discussed and pls. explain where you find “conspiracy theories” in what I’ve written.

              • JoeAm says:

                It describes whether or not the sky is falling. Conspiracy theories are personal opinions reinforced with argument and a gathering of believers who actually make decisions based on it, often to the detriment of others (vaccines will make forks stick to your forehead, so take dog de-worming medicine instead). Science is shunned in favor of beliefs, so each theory assumes pseudo-religious adherence and rejects informed views.

              • okay, that was actually an easier read than expected.

                I agree with everything proposed, especially early voting and mail in ballots, but better system has to be in place, right now how voting officials verify that its you mailing that mail in vote is thru a copy of your signature. it turns out millennials and most of Gen Z’ers don’t know how to sign stuff anymore, so their signatures keep on changing and their ballots gets kicked back,

                if you’re early enough you can verify identity and cast another vote that will match your signature. if not then your vote don’t count.

                I do disagree with their suggestion to tamp down on fake news on social media, that’s censorship and exactly what happened to the Hunter biden laptop story, they censored it and later on it was discovered that it was a legit story. i don’t think they’ve thought thru this suggestion, eg. who will be the censors?!!!

                please refer to this interview, Joe:

              • “Science is shunned in favor of beliefs, so each theory assumes pseudo-religious adherence and rejects informed views.”

                But can you identify where I’ve proposed a conspiracy theory? as for The Sky is Falling, i think that’s an apt description of what.s going on. Even that link study you shared was more tempered, but if you watch these talking head TV pundits, you’d think America was coming apart Joe, which i s not the case.

                So i stand by The Sky is Falling description, Joe, its like Dr. Badoy there conflating and enlargening the communist threat risk to the Philippines, bad juju. all around.

              • JoeAm says:

                The conspiracy theory is that the sky is not falling. Republicans believe it and mainstream media are falling into line on it, thus Biden’s speech is divisive but stealing secret documents and calling for violence against the FBI is not. It is a kind of complacency theory arguing for those who believe democracy is under threat to stand down. The study phrases it differently, saying US institutions are probably strong enough to withstand the threat, but sees the threat as significant and gives suggestions on how to withstand it. Your view is black and white, there is no threat and those of us who believe there is one are wrong. Your belief has become the driver of argument, not the fact of the matter.

              • ah, I see.

                I think that’s because you’ve bought into this Sky is falling narrative, that anything said that’s opposite has to be by default “conspiracy theory” cuz its opposite of the world view you’ve bought into.

                But even your linked study is “hopeful” Joe, and today it s still plain as day hopeful. though if you buy into the TV pundits on CNN and MSNBC you have no choice but to believe the Sky is Falling, therein lies the

                dissonance, Joe. your researchers said it best here:

              • JoeAm says:

                As you have bought into the sky is not falling argument. The study is the neutral knowledge between the two unproven beliefs. Unprovable beliefs. I don’t insist that you believe as I do, I do reject you imposing your belief as the unqualified correct one.

              • Hope vs. despair.

                its the plot of all of JRR Tolkien’s stories, Joe! you’re saying basically you’re with Sauron, despair. i’m with hope.

              • “I don’t insist that you believe as I do, I do reject you imposing your belief as the unqualified correct one.”

                I am not insisting nor imposing I’m certainly tho’ challenging your beliefs, and if you recall you and Juan were not able to back your claims that Jan. 6 the sky would’ve fallen then. thus your views were challenged and found wanting but yet you still choose to belief that the sky is falling.

                The TS/SCI thread i’ll concede has to unfold. before we can go any further.

              • JoeAm says:

                That statement itself is a demand that we subscribe to your belief and not our own. Your arguments are a lot like that, declaring you have won. You can’t win beliefs until facts emerge, you can just hold them. Religiously.

              • It s a comparative exercise , Joe, if I hold these beliefs and can support them when challenged; then by definition those who cannot support their own beliefs are either on shaky ground or must jump to another narrative that is easily defendable.

                Same argument type really with i7sharp years ago. and yes it is a contest. you have to defend your narrative, Joe. Otherwise why hold on to them?

              • JoeAm says:

                There is a point at which one descends into a rabbit hole of cascading fallacies, and decisions flowing from them, and it incites one to confusion or anger, like you and Micha endlessly trying to prove the unprovable and pissing on one another in the process. I’ll stay out, thanks, and search for information that makes sense, in my own moral and intellectual framing. In this case, I believe democracy is under threat, it is no joke, it is ugly and dangerous, and I won’t be complacent about it. The MAGA Republicans are awful, awful people, hoisting up an awful awful person as what America stands for. If you don’t see or believe that, then I just put you in that big bucket of really stupid Americans who have lost the thread of what democracy, in it’s elegance, is designed to create.

              • “In this case, I believe democracy is under threat,”

                But what are you basing this belief off of, Joe?!!!

                You’ve not supported anything I’ve challenged. You’ve offered a link (academic you’ve touted as superior knowledge with all sorts of citations) yet they are of the same mind as me, hopeful— sure needs some fixing. but they did not even go so far as “democracy is under threat”. And the processes, as I’ve outlined in various threads above and below, are working.

                So what do you base all this from?

              • JoeAm says:

                The report I referenced. The capitol riot and killings. The states being set up to negate a democratic presidential win. The extreme Supreme Court rulings and captured judiciary (special master ruling). Ginni Thomas. The missing documents and dead CIA agents. The high people with links to Russia. The craziness of Cruz, Goetz, Paul, Boebert, Greene, De Santis, Guilanni, and Trump. The Republicans who have switched to dems and the rise of Christian nationalism. Banned books. Takeover of schoolboards.

                It is not my job to enlighten you, and I don’t debate with trolls.

                Here, read this. https://www.rand.org/pubs/research_briefs/RBA1841-1.html

                Read the other document I sent you. And stop the badgering. I don’t engage with people who are intentional idiots.

              • Juan Luna says:

                I am not insisting nor imposing I’m certainly tho’ challenging your beliefs, and if you recall you and Juan were not able to back your claims that Jan. 6 the sky would’ve fallen then. thus your views were challenged and found wanting but yet you still choose to belief that the sky is falling. – LCpl_X
                – – – – – –
                Two questions for you my friend:

                1 Prior to Jan. 6, have you ever thought that there is a possibility the Capitol will be violated and invaded by election protesters?

                2 Did you expect such thing is going to happen and if so can you honestly say what your basis is?

            • I just colored mine with more personal insights! LOL! but its the same decision branching game.

        • Karl Garcia says:

          I grasp the intelligence network somehow even before reading the wiki.
          Sometimes when I do research for my dad, he won’t take my word for it because he knows my biases, he will have it cross referenced, double checked by the pros.

          Now I know the feeling since most of what I write for the maritime review get returned to me, but my ego and pride is boosted everytime an article gets published same sentiment here in TSOH.
          Right now I ran out of ideas because putting many topics in one article will make you run out of things to write.

        • Karl Garcia says:

          @LCX,

          These are things you already know, but if I may.

          Investigative journos protect their sources, opinion writers also have sources that refuse to be quoted.

          Talking heads report and cite sources of video footages and most of the time coordinate with on site reporters and people on the bus.
          They have their own phds in google of course.

          Perception managers (coined from a David Baldacci novel) also rely on data to do the perception managing and info did come from thin air or no one will buy it.

          But a resident PHD may also be around but the resident phd also relies on those with PHDs in google and future PHDs or PHD candidates.

          • Sources and Methods,

            Sources: are individuals or groups that work with the US gov’t.

            many times these individuals were found at the early parts of their careers and cultivated and now not only have access but a say in an organization— imagine playing chess and moving a pawn one square at a time where that pawn ends up at the opposite end and becomes a Queen. they ‘re valuable. granted there are also throw away one time information sources, but even these are protected like that Queen.

            Methods: are the tech involved or just some wily devious way of doing something, these too are protected because unlike human lives which have inherent value, these techs & methods also represent years of development, to squander them would mean adding more years of redeveloping said tech/method, karl.

            again closely guarded.

            So its not like journalism or academia, there are things on the line here , lives , time and effort.

            That’s why when these TV talking heads talk about Oh no!!! there are most likely sources and methods in that pile of TS/SCI!!!, that’s just highly unlikely, karl.

            karl : “I grasp the intelligence network somehow even before reading the wiki.”

            karl, if you grasp that then you’ll also be familiar that the classification process is more unwieldly than the de-classification process at the other end of that spectrum.

            eg. you keep on classifying stuff TS/SCI, TS, Secret, confidential, etc. as intelligence come in, but when it s time to de-classify stuff that takes much longer to do, and usually things don’t get de-classified unless theres a FOIA request. sits in dusty boxes.

            So imagine finding an old newspaper from a year ago, well that’s really not as important than a newspaper today or a newspaper that’ll be published in the wee hours tomorrow.

            Theres a time and space element component too, karl, so just because TS/SCI documents are found doesn’t necessarily mean those things are current or even relevant.

            My point here is if you just listen to CNN and MSNBC even FOX , you’ll get this notion that Oh my God the sky is falling!!! tho’ the nukes stuff I’m less familiar with, karl, that probably is more a counterintelligence issue safe guarding our stuff and what we know already. but i surmise those things get updated as well.

            We’ll see what those documents fruit, but I gotta feeling Trump will be a felon only because he made a misdemeanor offense into a felony (see Joe’s link above if you want citation for it).

            I’m not convinced theres a clear and present danger as the TV pundits want us to feel, karl. that’s my issue that I’m taking up here, we’re made to be running around screaming the Sky is Falling the Sky is Falling, and what for mid-terms?!!! please!!!

              • Karl Garcia says:

                I.A and
                Cvil Military Relations
                You do not use Military for Police Operations.
                I.A’s
                Safety net prevents Martial law type or NTF-ELCAC (misused) type elements
                The PH Anti-terror law should have the safety nets explaned and applied properly.

                Only a few grasp IA and CMR and they are important

                Now in PH we are left with an OIC whose first agenda as OIC is to meet the Security forces.
                That is not CMR that is PR optics.

              • Last thing first, karl. that AI as police is what I’m worried about re drone wars and using algorithms and metadata to prosecute. like Judge Dredd but with AI. bad news all around.

                As for this:

                “And I think one of the things that alarmed a lot of us who care about the norms of civil-military relations was President Trump’s suggestion that even though governors and mayors were not asking for military forces to police—to either support civilian authorities or to police the equal justice under law protests that the president was suggesting he would do it anyway over their objections.

                And I would certainly defer to Professor Koh, but it looks to me like that the president has the authority to do that and that’s what was making all of us so nervous because one of the reasons Americans have such a positive view of our military is because the combination of the Insurrection Act, posse comitatus, and the norms of behavior since the Kent State shootings in the early 1970s America’s interaction with its military is principally with National Guard forces when they are supporting governors during disaster relief.

                And so people were really nervous about what it would do to this relationship between the American public and our military to have a president for what looked like overtly political purposes, not security purposes, federalizing National Guard or using active duty forces against Americans who were peacefully protesting.”

                —-

                I do remember this during the BLM protests, Trump wanted to act but was thwarted. This by the way is more in keeping with the definition of Insurrection IMHO not 4-6,000 in the Capitol, haphazardly fumbling around the building.

                “Aaron Burr’s political fortunes were dashed, and he decided that he was going to raise a private army and invade the Louisiana Territory and/or Mexico and create an empire for his own command.”

                Insurrection is I think more organized and with actual fire power, actual threat to the nation. imminent not pretend threat, or an abstract threat to “democracy”. thus necessitating an equal opposing force to counter act said insurrection.

                But the BLM protests were not this, nor the Capitol seige. simply because its localized, meaning local gov’t can handle.

                Trump proposed it in the Summer of 2021, but was shot down by governors and mayors, and rightly so, becuz these were localized events which local and state gov’ts can handle.

                So Trump was rebuffed, if he did actually order the National Guard and active Military, again this is about process and knowing how the US gov’t works, karl,

                then the governors would take ownership of the National Guard, DoD would concur with said governors; if Trump ordered say the Marines to drive up to LA (like in the 1992 riots), the mayor would order them back, local police even CHP (remember that show CHiPs, karl?) would close down roads to block them.

                Such is the power of states and local/county gov’t here when it comes to what essentially would be an invading force into states or cities, karl.

                There would be a stand off, and generals having been trained in the nuances of civil-military interactions here and abroad would side with the governors and mayors, karl. The threat and the response not being proportional.

                I guarantee this. Trump would’ve been shot down.

                But if the BLM protests had been bigger and wide spread, common sense tells us that the mayors and governors would then plead the Federal gov’t for help. And that’s how it works, karl. theres a series of gate keepers, Trump can’t just willy nilly invade a state or city or county on the pretense of helping, because there are forces that will

                counter that decision. That s where generals come in, Gen. Milley walked with Trump in what was an obvious don’t walk with Trump moment, he got a pass, cuz he then wrote a disparaging book on Trump and apologized for walking with Trump. but American generals will stand down, karl.

              • Ha! I read AI when you wrote IA, karl, thought you were talking about two things, sorry.

              • Karl Garcia says:

                Sorry too lazy to type insurrectiin act. AI went into the picture.
                I am sincerely glad that I asked no sarcasm.

              • isk says:

                Very informative discussion with host Jeffrey Tobin, famous for multi-tasking.
                Thank you Sir.

            • Karl Garcia says:

              We need a customized Posse
              Comeatus Actt
              But our policy makers direction is the opposite until it goes 180 degrees
              https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posse_Comitatus_Act

              https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insurrection_Act_of_1807

              Third link on cmr next.

            • Karl Garcia says:

              Pleasure isk

          • I don’t think you can copy what we have here because AFP and PNP are nationalized.

            You guys don’t have National Guards, reserve Army units that fall under a state’s governor during peacetime (and used during disasters and emergencies), but when activated gets subsumed into regular Army.

            You guys don’t have the various police, Sheriffs, state police/CHP that are independent and answer to their respective local officials.

            Lastly, you guys don’t have local politicians that will stand up to national politicians.

            Kinda like this, karl:

            • The Philippines used to have local police, vs. Philippine Constabulary which was the counter-insurgency force formed in the American period, including Rafael Crame.

              Problem was that mayors often used local police like private troops in some places.

              Nationalization of the police into INP (integrated national police) was under Marcos as one of his thrusts was to combat local warlords who were indeed a scourge even in Luzon and Visayas before, later they were merged with PC into PC-INP which became PNP in Cory’s time.

              • Ah I see, so even if they splintered up like ours here, then police would just end up being local warlords shock troops. still doesn’t work.

                Maybe sending your generals en mass to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_academy#Staff_colleges_2 over here, so they get the notion of how civil-military ops are suppose to go down.

                How to gate keep if presidents ask too much of their generals. Focus on field grades maybe, then have them end up in staff colleges here, karl.

              • p.s. I should clarify standing up to national politicians necessitates moral high ground, not warlord druglord mayors that defy national interest public good decisions for their petty individual needs, like shabu 😉 .

              • Karl Garcia says:

                We do send officers to staff colleges my fist US trio ever was to acvompany my dad in his schooling. I was a toddler then.
                But en masse?
                Probably hapoening just not too obvious.

              • Karl Garcia says:

                A mayor stood his ground on masking recently.
                But the governor copyjng SG ordinances must go to the natiknal level.
                Now as to obilizationReservist on peacd time. If you read his comments in my National defense article!!, he said that is not advisable as far as he is concerned here.
                Mandatoty ROTC here was a contentious issue and now it is being debated because your Inday Sars is our Officer in charge while our president is away.

              • “my fist US trio ever was to acvompany my dad in his schooling. I was a toddler then.”

                Did you go to Leavenworth, Carlisle or DC , karl?

                As to the efficacy of staff colleges and sending foreign field grade- general officers over here, it worked perfectly in Egypt, Hillary snubbed Mubarak, so a Salafi took over worst than Mubarak, but then the staff college network kicked in and they were able to bring back Egypt into the fold with AlSisi. no thanks to Hillary fucking things up.

                Libya and Syria were another story.

              • Karl Garcia says:

                First off Dang Korean touchscreen…b4 it was darn chinese keyboard.

                Monterrey
                Naval Post Graduate School. I could still google his thesis on budgeting, he was a technocrat /theorist in the military in his time.
                But we do have GSc courses here b4 anyone becomes a flag officer or during the Col rank and National Defense College were Legarda, scroll up or down to Micha’s post, completed her Masters for National Security.
                Badoy does not know who she’s crossing all bark no brains and she is an MD
                In this catfight I’m all in for Legarda, but this is serious stuff.

              • Oh sorry i forgot it was Sonny’s dad that was Army and your dad Navy.

                That’s a beautiful place nonetheless, but then Fort Ord would’ve probably been active then, which means more dudes and strip clubs, but now its really beautiful Fort Ord has closed and parts of it is now a Cal State (Monterey).

                Other parts developed with million dollar homes built on sand, karl. sand!

                I have to read up on all this Badoy and Legarda spat, I’m not familiar. But how does an MD and political appointee with no military background get such power? or is this red tagging open to anyone, like anonymous complaints but not anonymous,

                same same as McCarthyism over here,

                or like the Salem witch hunts even. it she’s not police or military but speaking on national security matters, aren’t there police or military higher ups that can shut her up?

                Maybe Badoy needs to watch,

                so she realizes she’s just an Orc doing Sauron’s bidding.

              • Karl Garcia says:

                Excellent question!! Read kb ‘s link but have no answer to what biz Badoy has in NTF ELCAC

              • kasambahay says:

                lorraine badoy has a big role in ntf-elcac. ex pres duterte appointed her as one of the spokesperson of the agency, and will remain so unless pbbm dismiss her and appoint another in her place.

              • kb,

                it doesn’t seem what she’s doing is within the purview of spokesperson, a spokesperson usually is a mouth piece for her/his boss.

                So who’s her boss?

            • https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmology_of_Tolkien%27s_legendarium#Spherical-earth_cosmology

              “Tolkien’s legendarium addresses the spherical Earth paradigm by depicting a catastrophic transition from a flat to a spherical world, in which Aman, the continent where Valinor lay, was removed “from the circles of the world”. The only remaining way to reach Aman was the so called Straight Road, a hidden route leaving Middle-earth’s curvature through sky and space which was exclusively known and open to the Elves, who were able to navigate it with their ships.

              This transition from a flat to a spherical Earth is at the center of Tolkien’s “Atlantis” legend.

              His unfinished The Lost Road suggests a sketch of the idea of historical continuity connecting the Elvish mythology of the First Age with the classical Atlantis myth, the Germanic migrations, Anglo-Saxon England and the modern period, presenting the Atlantis legend in Plato and other deluge myths as a “confused” account of the story of Númenor. The cataclysmic re-shaping of the world would have left its imprint on the cultural memory and collective unconscious of humanity, and even on the genetic memory of individuals. The “Atlantis” part of the legendarium explores the theme of the memory of a ‘straight road’ into the West, which now only exists in memory or myth, because the physical world has been changed.”

              I gotta feeling Badoy’s not going on that ‘straight road’, karl.

              • Karl Garcia says:

                You too apparently because I got lost.

              • Karl Garcia says:

                Red tagging is not open but it seems open season.

                Being a military brat supposedly makes my DNA side with the military.

                I choose my battles when in a AFP brat forum, I shut my trap and pie hole regarding this matters.

              • JoeAm says:

                The fight against criminals is legitimate. Extending the fight to civilians in the neighborhood turns the effort into a “burn the whole village down” method. It makes the law enforcers the villains, angers the neighboring villages, and aids rebel recruitment or sympathy. Legarda is in the village. Not a very smart thing to burn down her house.

              • Karl Garcia says:

                Burning the whole village just to smoke out an ant.
                Yes like I said above
                Badoy has no business being spokesperson. Who is she speaking for? Marcos or Duterte?

      • isk says:

        The network is now being managed by Warner Bros. Discovery hence the reorganization. The cable rating in July, 2022 is not too good compared to other network.
        https://thehill.com/homenews/3584726-fox-news-tops-cable-ratings-in-july/
        Gone are those journalists in the early years of CNN. The likes of Mr. Bernard Shaw, Christiane Amanpour and Joie Chen are missing. Wolf Blitzer is the only old timer I’ve seen left at CNN .

        The likes of Judy Woodruff and Gwen Ifill are rare now a days. Their reports are well researched and with credible sources.

  20. Micha says:

    Brace yourselves folks, this administration is shaping up to be highly militarized and fascist in its method with Sara Duterte leading the way in the adoption of her father’s brutish legacy of showing no mercy to so-called “criminals” and “terrorists”.

    She is supposed to handle the education department but she had just presided a conference with top military and police officials to, presumably, discuss coordination in enforcement of military discipline to our civilian population.

    • We link citations and sources here now, Micha!

    • JoeAm says:

      Hmm, was Sec of Defense there? If not, then she really is out of line. If so, he made a mistake. The Education Secretary does not drive defense. Nor does the VP. She can usurp the powers of the President I suppose, taking advantage of his absence. If Marcos did not approve the meeting, he’d be a fool to make her OIC again.

      • I hope she renders BBM persona non grata, Joe. and close down airports awaiting his return. by default Inday Sara becomes president. LOL!

        • kasambahay says:

          ah, methink, it will come down to the one ‘code’; the one key. without it, sara can barely close down airports and deny pbbm’s touchdown.

      • kasambahay says:

        as acting officer in charge, sara mayhap did not wear deped hat and has the mandate to minime pbbm, acting on his behalf: the main tire at last and not the spare tire. and pbbm is just a text away; nothing to worry about, really.

        consequently, deped has an under secretary acting on sara’s behalf. no worries deped collapsing sans sara, since sara has asked 500million extra fund allocated to projects related to national security, maybe to keep rebels at bay, school buildings in faraway places protected in case rebels come in the middle of the night and steal all the floor, then students would just have to sit on the hard ground!

        on a lighter note, I’m glad sara et al have chairs to sit on at the meeting, and not relegated to sitting on the floor, ala students, lol!

      • Micha says:

        https://newsinfo.inquirer.net/1658656/govt-caretaker-sara-duterte-says-no-mercy-to-criminals-terrorists

        The language use is problematic on at least two counts. Being a Duterte, the “no mercy” part evokes horrid spree of extra judicial killings perpetrated by her criminal father against suspected drug users.

        And who or how to define “criminals” and “terrorists” is of course arbitrary. It could be just about anybody they don’t really like. Lawyers, human rights organizers, activists, journalists, and radio men who step out of pre-arranged line are all fair game to be liquidated by riders in tandem.

        • JoeAm says:

          Yes, I find her view very authoritarian. Scary, actually. Totally uncompassionate.

          • from the link: “Our policy against criminals and terrorists and those that support and espouse their ideologies of violence should be hardline. We should show no mercy to criminals and terrorists,” she said.

            ———

            My inday Sara is not uncompassionate, Joe. violence being the determining factor here, so not arbitrary at all as Micha has alluded to.

            Hey if there’s violence involved stamp it out, better than EJK where the determining factor was shabu — well not all shabu addicts/users are violent (though they are fucking annoying yelling and throwing stuff, but still deserving of EJK probably).

            Violence. seems reasonable enough.

            • kasambahay says:

              we have laws: when criminals and terrorists get sick, they are not only given medical care but also legal representation. and sara should know that coz she is lawyer, her husband as well.

              • I think she’s talking about about EJK tho’, kb. not rule of law, only difference is her EJK is based on if there’s violence, where her dad was just shabu.

                We do it:

        • Juan Luna says:

          “We should show no mercy to criminals and terrorists,” – Sara D.
          – – – – – –
          That statement tend to attract attention for clarity and gravity especially from whose mouth it is coming from. The line is also very categorical in referring to whom the threat is being issued: criminals and terrorist, not specifically their leaders nor others who are not covered by that labels. Corrupt senators and congressmen are no terrorists nor criminals. Also, “No mercy” equates to harsh treatment and considering the background and genes of Sara Duterte, killings and murders (EJK) are not necessarily excluded on that two killer words.

          I just hope next time she makes that statement again she won’t forget to literally include also her fellow politicians that are so abusive and corrupt that they actually kill thousands of people instead of helping them.

        • kasambahay says:

          very ironic, no mercy to criminals and terrorists, maybe that is why mindanaw is their traditional haven, within sara’s karaoke singing distance.

          sara would have to act faster than the speed of sound, she only has few days left remaining being officer in charge, then back to the humdrum of being spare tire again. besides, sara knows who these terrorists are, her father have given them clemency and even invited some of them to dinner in malakanyang!

  21. Now we’re cooking, Joe (and Juan). all this is relevant because the current blog is about perceived threats, and ascertaining which ones are priority but more importantly which ones are real and imaginary (eg. no basis, just belief).

    Christian nationalism, banned books and coopted school boards i’ve been on record here saying this is a big threat to the nation. I’ve posted long ago i’d say since around 2015 or 2016 about how most lawyers working in Washington DC are graduates from Liberty , Regent, Trinity etc. etc. evangelical colleges.

    My debate with chempo about his anti-Darwinism stance, well that was connected to banned books and coopted school boards, I forgot when that debate transpired now but i think it was in his Gott is tot blog , I dunno of i got that right I don’t speak German. But where he can debate it, I said this Intelligent Design crap is actually being taught in elementary and high schools.

    Which is devolution really, because you’re coopting the Scientific Method.

    But coopting of school boards by “Intelligent Design” folks has been happening since the 1990s, slowly but surely. banned books is connected to the just read the Bible movement and be stupid, Darwin is evil, and all things bad stemmed from Darwin. This is all before Trump, Joe, Trump just rode on it like a surfing champion.

    I agree this whole stuff is a clear imminent threat to the nation, though the three justices appointed by Trump are crazy conservative Catholic educated judges, what I’m saying is at least they were educated, these batch of lawyers coming from Liberty and Regent and Trinity, are closed minded, imagine Dr. Badoy times 10, 000 and working in DC.

    That is a threat. but its not one you fight in the streets, its thru arguments and debates like we ‘re having now, Joe. thus the need for these debates back in democracy. otherwise its all i believe, you believe and stupid Evangelical lawyers sneak in thru the back door of the Federal gov’t.

    This threat you fight thru vigorous debate and the fact that academia has turned its back on this fight, means they’ve forfeited.

    • Juan,

      Prior to Jan. 6 was the BLM summer, and around the WH and other Fed buildings were layers and layers of security.

      Why the Capitol did not have layers and layers of security only 6 months after the BLM summer and 2 months after the election, is beyond me.

      But had there been layers and layers of security the outcome would’ve been simple, a mob yells Hang Mike Pence!!! and then they go back home.

      So it all hinges on crowd control, site security, etc.

      But if you’re asking if a mob can take over gov’t building, we saw that too during the BLM summer in Seattle they laid seige for months, and in other parts of the country police stations and gov’t offices were burned and gutted.

      So if you have no site security and crowd control, a mob will over run, that’s kinda the point of a mob, Juan, they over run if allowed to over run. Ergo site security and crowd control.


      • @ Joe,

        Here’s why I’m not too concerned with White nationalism and its potential violence. anything that’s violent in nature our police and military can handle that, if too big then it becomes an Insurrection Act situation, see above. Can they subvert say the Federal gov’t and DC? sure, but they’ll be obvious. racism or White power type philosophy is easy to recognize.

        Less easier to recognize is Christian evangelical subversion, precisely because Christianity is widely recognized as something good, and ignorance thru Intelligent Design (God made ’em all type thinking, no curiosity), this is how they’ve infiltrated schools in the Bible Belt, i gotta feeling most kids now over there doubt Darwins theory w/out even being exposed to it.

        2000 Census had Whites at around 70%, 2020 Census now has Whites at around 60%, Joe (i’m rounding here). that’s a drastic decline. Still 90% Whites in England, 80% in Canada, 90% Whites in Australia.

        Non-English West European countries like France its 90% White and Germany its 90% White.

        You’re seeing all these reactions to this demographics shift in West Europe and the English speaking nations due to their immigration and refugee policies, but its only the US that has gone down to 60%, with mixed race going up. So my point here, Joe,

        is if we didn’t see violence when it shifted down from 90% to 80%, then still no violence from 80% to 70%, then most recently from 70% Whites to now 60%, chances are no big convulsions are in coming,

        now sure there will be fringe elements, but remember that Charlottesville protest in 2017 (which was actually peaceful on the part of the White nationalists, but since they were poked and prodded by anti-White nationalists a riot ensued). but notice that no such White power protest or get togethers ever transpired since.

        Sure it could be that they ‘re scared of those anti-White nationalists, but I think Federal law enforcement stamped them out, so they go back into the shadows again. they reared their heads due to Trump being president but they were shortly and quickly routed.

        In conclusion, White nationalism is easier to rout because their philosophy it s not only easy to identify, but their methods are easier to counter as evidenced in Charlottesville. The US is at 60% Whites, Joe, that decline will continue base on birthrates, but specifically because mixed race kids are over taking ascendant , and that’s a damn good thing.

        That’s why i’m hopeful.

        I can’t say I’m as confident with the rest of the English speaking nations, or West Europe, even East Europe and Russia, but we here in the US are at 60% Whites and all is well. White nationalism is descendant, they might be active online, but I don’t know any openly White Power politicians here. just bad politics if you start going all French or German or Scandanavian politics over here. i’m sure there are racist politicians tho’.

        But

        Precisely because of that 60%, Joe, they’ll bite their tongue.

        The Christian evangelical stuff though is ascendant.

        But all this can be countered, we just need academia to start teaching Darwinism and go out and explain why Intelligent Design is religious crap disguised as science. easy peazy.

          • @ Joe et al.

            But this issue I side with the Christians (both the bad and good ones) because this is a free speech issue, why must I call you by this and that, if I don’t want to? its language police stuff, Joe.

            (looks like he went to jail for trespassing tho’)

            ——
            “The teacher who refused to use a transitioning student’s chosen pronouns, saying they went against his Christian beliefs, was jailed after ignoring a court order that barred him from entering his school’s grounds.

            Enoch Burke, who teaches German, history and politics at Wilson’s Hospital School in Westmeath, Ireland, was arrested on Monday morning and sent to Mountjoy prison for contempt of court.

            “It is insanity that I will be led from this courtroom to a place of incarceration, but I will not give up my Christian beliefs,” Burke, an evangelical Christian, said after a judge ruled he was to be sent to jail.

            He was found on the school grounds despite being suspended and placed on administrative leave after an outburst against the use of gender-neutral pronouns in June, when he publicly disputed a trans student’s choice of using “they/them” as their preferred pronouns.

            The school then asked Burke to respect the student’s gender identity, but Burke refused to do so, reportedly saying that a belief system was forced upon the school, its staff and its students that went against the teaching of the Church of Ireland. He also said being forced to respect a transitioning student using their preferred pronouns was in breach of his constitutional rights.”

            https://www.newsweek.com/teacher-refusing-student-chosen-pronouns-jailed-ignoring-order-1740119

            ——

            one more article on this:

            https://www.nbcnews.com/nbc-out/out-news/professor-wouldnt-use-trans-students-pronouns-wins-400k-settlement-rcna24989

            “A Shawnee State University professor who was disciplined for using the wrong pronouns when addressing a transgender student is being awarded $400,000 after a lawsuit against the university.

            Nick Meriwether, a philosophy professor at the Ohio school, declined to use she/her pronouns to refer to a transgender woman, according to a press release from Alliance Defending Freedom, a legal organization that focuses on religious freedom and free speech cases and represented Meriwether.

            Meriwether responded to the student during classes by saying, “Yes, sir.” The student asked him after class to use she/her pronouns when addressing her, but Meriwether said no. The student filed a complaint and the university launched an investigation, according to a press release from the alliance.

            Meriwether offered to use the student’s name, but not pronouns or titles. The university ruled he should use the correct pronouns, which the professor argued “speak contrary to his religious convictions and philosophical beliefs.”

            The university determined “he effectively created a hostile environment” for the student and placed written warning in his personnel file, threatening “further corrective actions,” according to the alliance.

            The professor filed a lawsuit against university officials, which they tried to have dismissed. In 2021, the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 6th Circuit ruled in favor of Meriwether, reversing a district court’s dismissal of his suit, according to the alliance.”

            ——-

            Its interesting tho’ that in both cases they used their “religious convictions” as reason not to abide, but IMHO it goes beyond religious conviction, its about choice why are you forcing me to change how I learned the language. that’s just fucking confusing!

            That’s like saying every Filipino who uses he for she and she for he, automatically goes to jail or is fired, there’ll be lots of homeless Filipinos and in jails here, cuz there’s no he/she in Filipino languages! LOL! that was for karl. 😉

      • Juan Luna says:

        My friend, you did not address the question I posed to you. I think you knew that your answer will reveal the center of gravity of your position on the issue, and you don’t want to do that. Fine.

        Juan,
        Prior to Jan. 6 was the BLM summer, and around the WH and other Fed buildings were layers and layers of security. – LCpl_X
        – – – – – –
        That security is primarily for Donald Trump and BLM in not exactly fond of him, ergo the heightened security. I’m sure you know that.

        Why the Capitol did not have layers and layers of security only 6 months after the BLM summer and 2 months after the election, is beyond me. – LCpl_X
        – – – – – –
        No. It is not beyond you, my friend. For one, we all know the Democrats don’t worry about BLM. Again, the group is an antithesis to Trump. If the Dems feels threatened by it, like Trump does, I’m sure the security will be enhanced. Again, you know that very well.

        But had there been layers and layers of security the outcome would’ve been simple, a mob yells Hang Mike Pence!!! and then they go back home.
        So it all hinges on crowd control, site security, etc. – LCpl_X
        – – – – – –
        That statement is actually related to the question I posed to you. Who would think that a mob of election protesters would invade and violate the grounds of the Capitol?

        Actually, there were layers of security but still it was over ran because there was an obvious failure of intelligence. It has been found out that there was careful planning and coordination among the Maga crowd to storm the Capitol if Pence refuse Trump’s bidding. Again, we now all know that.

        But if you’re asking if a mob can take over gov’t building, we saw that too during the BLM summer in Seattle they laid seige for months, and in other parts of the country police stations and gov’t offices were burned and gutted. – LCpl_X
        – – – – – – –
        That’s apples and oranges you’re talking about, my friend.

        BLM is a police matter that often impinges on the border of criminal act, while the Maga siege of the Capitol is a national security issue. You cannot deny that.

        So if you have no site security and crowd control, a mob will over run, that’s kinda the point of a mob, Juan, they over run if allowed to over run. Ergo site security and crowd control. – LCpl_X
        – – – – – –
        BLM never plotted to over ran and deface institutions nor threatened the lives of legislators and a vice-president. In fact, unlike the conspiracy and subterfuge showed by the Maga crowd to inflict violence on persons and property on that fateful day, the BLM activity remains one that we call protests that are often laden with violence.

        Every time we see BLM mass actions the ‘sky is falling’ thinking (according to you) never crosses our minds. We cannot say the same with the Jan. 6 siege. In fact, so serious, it was characterized as an insurrection. Clearly, the BLM thing is small time compared to the murderous act the Maga mob inflicted on that day. That is not to say, though, that I’m giving BLM the pass for anything that is against the law must be condemned and prosecuted.

        • Karl Garcia says:

          @Juan you read LCX very well. His style of being a devil’s advocate, no such thing as agree to this agree can only go so far.

          • Karl Garcia says:

            *agree to disagree
            really f’n Taiwanese keyboard(acer)

          • Karl Garcia says:

            *disagree (not this agree)
            Oh well
            i’ll redo the last part
            …and his insistence that there is no such thing as agree to disagree can only go so far.

          • Juan Luna says:

            Devil’s advocate or not, he still has to produce the basis of his point of view and not just with regularity dispel the views of others without giving any concrete and clear justification for it.

            I know LCX argues and explains a lot. But one thing I notice he doesn’t come up, as finale, a closure for his argument; nothing solid and sound comes up to really deliver his point of view so clear you will be convince that he’s on the right. What usually happens is nangnaganak (gives birth) the statement as he goes go along.

            I think it is not too much to ask from our friend, LCX to deliver his thought in a complete package.

            • “That statement is actually related to the question I posed to you. Who would think that a mob of election protesters would invade and violate the grounds of the Capitol?”

              That is my premise, Juan, every mob by definition is unruly. That’s why its called a mob. Google the definition.

              And as I’ve posted in the link above, 120,000 was the estimate of Fed officials based on socmed/online chatter.

              Election fraud was already well underway as a theory of why Trump lost, Trump supporters were pissed that election was “stolen”.

              Is it such a leap of faith to think that it would be violent, Juan?!!! BLM was violent, the Kenosha shooting was part of that, mobs become violent, no such thing as an orderly mob.

              So police (and since its DC, military) prepare. no such thing as a friendly mob, Juan. for sure not Trump supporters who have gone to the southern border before and fought non-Trump supporters in rallies.

              Yes based on what had happened already, “that mob of election protesters would invade and violate the grounds of the Capitol”!!!

              • “In fact, so serious, it was characterized as an insurrection.”

                I agree with you BLM was not an insurrection, but who said or “characterized” that Jan. 6 was one, politicians and media? we’ve already established all the various outcomes would all lead to Biden being president.

                In what scenario could Trump have remained President, Juan. none! but i’ve already asked you for all your what-could’ve-beens, your best one was if Mike Pence played along with Trump’s plan, and we did

                play it out based on established processes and norms of the Fed gov’t, and Biden still becomes president. So you have to establish a scenario where Trump does stay president and so far you’ve not done so.

                Because then that would be an insurrection. where the possibility for imminent threat is clear, not this pretend stuff.

              • “But one thing I notice he doesn’t come up, as finale, a closure for his argument; “

                The argument had been closed long ago, Juan.

                You and Joe: The sky is falling. no basis, based on actually police and military processes or anything, only rhetoric and stringing together non related stuff.

                Me: The sky is not falling. basis, i’ve laid clear with police and military processes and established norms why its not.

                This is why you’re still trying to prosecute this, becuz your side is found wanting, Juan.

                But i’ll play along of course becuz i love to argue, so you have to offer basis any sort, Joe attempted to and he’s gone out the ball park instead of focusing on how the Fed gov’t works. more sky is falling stuff.

                So you have to offer your basis, and I’ll challenge it. But the closure already happened. The sky is not falling.

              • JoeAm says:

                The out of the ball park stuff is the context for the attempted election overthrow. It is the slow-moving but profound teardown of democratic ethical and institutional norms. To trash the argument as irrelevant to the capitol riot is just one more trick of argument that you need to claim victory in this nonsensical pissing match. Why you need so desperately to win the argument is the puzzle. We are all arguing from imperfect knowledge about a lot of hypotheticals. It would be accurate to agree that people are concerned about democracy, and you aren’t. And stop claiming victory when there isn’t even a fight! lol

              • “Actually, there were layers of security but still it was over ran because there was an obvious failure of intelligence.”

                This is wrong.

                If you compare the barricade in the WH during that summer, what the Capitol had was measly at best anemic even, so this is wrong. there was a thin layer at best.

                Again if we go by the numbers, 120,000 was expected , 20,000 showed (see link above), and 4-6,000 entered the capitol. there was no failure of intelligence, Juan,

                the failure was in the preparation.

              • “while the Maga siege of the Capitol is a national security issue”

                you still haven’t proven this, Juan.

                Do you mean national security issue like in theory in the abstract (because that’s Joe’s point), or national security issue like there was imminent threat that Trump could’ve stayed president, cuz again we’ve play by play’ed it thru and no realistic outcome where Trump stays in the WH due to the Jan. 6 Capitol seige. unless you have another scenario in mind, Juan. 😉

              • JoeAm says:

                No, “we” didn’t. You did. I expressed it as a 50/50 chance. So stop lying about it.

              • Juan Luna says:

                That is my premise, Juan, every mob by definition is unruly. – LCpl_X
                – – – – – –
                Not all mobs storms and occupied the Capitol; not all mobs threaten and intentionally cause harm or even kill legislators and vice-presidents. Ordinary mobs can only think of those things but the Maga kind of mob was actually there on the site where the electoral processes was being conducted and ready to destroy and kill if necessary and if the opportunity presented itself.

                That is the reason why I differentiated the BLM to the Maga crowd. Both mobs but not really the same on degree in terms of threats to national security.

                Is it such a leap of faith to think that it would be violent, Juan?!!! BLM was violent, the Kenosha shooting was part of that, mobs become violent, no such thing as an orderly mob. – LCpl_X
                – – – – – –
                Again, you are missing the target. If you are talking of violence per se, true, BLM protests almost always are accompanied by violence. But you have to admit also BLM never threatens to disrupt an official governmental functions such as declaration of elections results with violence and death. BLM never engage in violence and destruction against authority by reason of election results the authenticity of which is beyond question.

                Am I defending BLM? Not an iota, I’m just clarifying the difference between the acts of violence perpetrated by both BLM and Maga crowd and the repercussions it creates.

                Yes based on what had happened already, “that mob of election protesters would invade and violate the grounds of the Capitol”!!! – LCpl_X
                – – – – – –
                Not exactly true. Allegations of election fraud or that the election was stolen has no connection per se in the invasion and violation of the Capitol. Yes, there were slogans (lies too!) to excite and actively propel demonstrators. In short, it is the reason for the Maga crowd to protest, to bellyache, the have an excuse for not accepting the lost. What caused the attack was more than yelling and shouting lies. It was seriously grounded on meticulous planning and well-coordinated subterfuge made by a cabal of Trump supporters to stop Congress’ work to formalize Biden’s victory.

                I tell, that is a serious violation.

              • Juan Luna says:

                “while the Maga siege of the Capitol is a national security issue”
                you still haven’t proven this, Juan.

                Do you mean national security issue like in theory in the abstract (because that’s Joe’s point), or national security issue like there was imminent threat that Trump could’ve stayed president, cuz again we’ve play by play’ed it thru and no realistic outcome where Trump stays in the WH due to the Jan. 6 Capitol seige. unless you have another scenario in mind, Juan. – – LCpl_X

                – – – – – –
                I really don’t have to prove anything because, really, everything boils down to common sense if you look at the facts.

                Looking at your statement, it gives an idea of ‘national security’ not being clear to you, my friend. I don’t know about ‘theory in abstract’ about national security. I also don’t know the connection of Trump staying as president as national security issue for it never came to that. If we’re going to dwell on that angle we are already speculating away from reality, from what really happens. That’s a waste of time.

                The only act that is related to national security is the breach of security on the Capitol ground and the act of violence and threat of deaths and destruction unleashed by the Maga crowd.

              • “and ready to destroy and kill if necessary and if the opportunity presented itself.”

                They can be ready to destroy and kill all they want, Juan, but had those barricades been erected like those used at the WH over the BLM summer, and with same amount of personnel, destroying and killing would’ve been averted.

                “BLM never engage in violence and destruction against authority by reason of election results the authenticity of which is beyond question.”

                It doesn’t really matter what the mobs reasons are, Juan , whether for Trump or for George Floyd, mobs destroy, maim and sometimes kill, that’s what mobs do when angry.

                Whatever they are angry about, police (and especially military in DC) have to prepare.

                ‘Not exactly true. Allegations of election fraud or that the election was stolen has no connection per se in the invasion and violation of the Capitol.”

                MY point, Juan, was that it was an angry mob. any mob when angry will lash out, planned or unplanned, so its up to the police (and military) to avert their wants and desires, eg. more barricades, concertina wire too.

              • JoeAm says:

                Blame shifting is a common rhetorical device that moves complicity to a second party, thus leaving the real culprit free of accountability. The capitol police, as incompetent, under staffed, or cooperative as they were, did not plan, staff, arm, or lead the attack. One cop shot a woman in the head to keep them out of the House so even Trump supporters could run and hide for their lives.

              • JoeAm says:

                “More than 840 people have been charged with federal crimes for their conduct at the Capitol on Jan. 6. More than 350 defendants have pleaded guilty or been convicted by a jury or a judge.

                More than 220 of them have been sentenced, including about 100 who received a term of imprisonment. Ponder is the 15th to be sentenced to a prison term exceeding one year.”

                https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2022-07-26/mans-63-month-prison-term-matches-longest-for-jan-6-capitol-riot

              • Juan Luna says:

                If you compare the barricade in the WH during that summer, what the Capitol had was measly at best anemic even, so this is wrong. there was a thin layer at best.
                Again if we go by the numbers, 120,000 was expected , 20,000 showed (see link above), and 4-6,000 entered the capitol. there was no failure of intelligence, Juan,
                the failure was in the preparation. LCpl_X
                – – – – – –
                Again, apples and oranges. Let’s talk facts.

                Barricades and security in the WH is a normal thing in every administration. Nothing special about it; it’s a day to day thing, so to speak.

                Jan. 6, 2021 was different. It was the date of the counting of electoral votes in Congress. It was an important moment for the country. That day a governmental function is about to happen, one that has been a regular part of the democratic system to give finality to a just concluded elections. The country was ready to do the routine and suddenly, boom!

                You really think had intelligence known the plans of the Trump cabal to attack they would not have beef up security? They would do nothing? C’mon, man!

              • Juan Luna says:

                “…It would be accurate to agree that people are concerned about democracy” – JoeAm
                – – – – – –
                I think that is the whole essence of the conversation from one side to yours, LCpl, my friend. While you have not expressed concern about the fate of democracy on Jan. 6 it is still alarming that you seem to be oblivious on the uncertainty of the situation, the volatility of the current and the fact that democracy was hanging in the balance on that day.

                My last word.

              • Okay, since it s your last word, I’ll just tackle this one last point cuz we’re running around in circles , Juan,

                unless you wanna share other scenarios where Trump could’ve stayed in the WH, that’s a national security issue because that affects the nation, whereas the Capitol seige is simply a process of getting rid of the mob that seiged the Capitol which is a police (and military becuz its DC ) matter.

                “While you have not expressed concern about the fate of democracy on Jan. 6 it is still alarming that you seem to be oblivious on the uncertainty of the situation,”

                There was no national security threat that day precisely because no scenario (unless you provide one we’ve not explored) suggests that Trump stays in the WH, Juan.

                Why would I need to be alarmed if I knew even whilst the mob was inside the Capitol, that police and military would just sweep them up.

                And this lies directly to my point,

                you want me to be alarmed when I know how the Fed gov’t and police and military works in scenarios like these, you want me to run around like Chicken Little? for what because of some prime time Jan. 6 committee details uncovered?!!! the test is simple,

                would Trump have stayed in the WH that day, and the answer is a resounding no, thus no need for alarmist mumbo jumbo, Juan. Was it a bad event yes it was, any time a gov’t facility is overtaken it is ,no matter if they’re doing something significant or not inside that part doesn’t matter really,

                because its a gov’t building. Fed, state or local, any gov’t building, because that’s paid for by taxpayers. So my pissed off moment is just that, let those fuckers that ransacked the Capitol pay for it, if Trump is found guilty of inciting a riot let him pay too,

                but to tell me that i should be alarmed like Chicken Little, well I wasn’t born yesterday, Juan. no the sky is not falling. the systems in place work. I have confidence, and you telling me I shouldn’t have confidence in it, without basis, is your flaw (and Joe’s too).

              • “The capitol police, as incompetent, under staffed, or cooperative as they were, did not plan, staff, arm, or lead the attack.”

                Joe,

                They were expecting 120,000 Trump supporters that day, Joe. Yet the Jan. 6 committee has glossed over why the national guard wasn’t requested, or why there were no bigger barriers , more cops from various places, etc. scapegoats have been fired, yes, but no coverage of all the decisions to ensure response was anemic that day.

                Not covered at all. when that was the only way to prevent a crowd of 4-6,000 people from entering, thus preventing all this. its glossed over. Don’t you think the Jan. 6 committee have given this portion ample explanation? its kinda important.

              • “The out of the ball park stuff is the context for the attempted election overthrow. It is the slow-moving but profound teardown of democratic ethical and institutional norms.”

                I wasn’t trashing the argument, Joe. I was saying in trying to determine gov’t response and processes it does not factor in.

                But since Juan has claimed that it was an intelligence failure and people just didn’t know how bad it was gonna be like seige the Capitol bad, and hold legislators hostage, then

                I think what you’ve shared in fact is relevant when talking “intelligence failures”, cuz people knew.

                People knew angry Trump supporters were coming and they failed to prepare.

              • JoeAm says:

                Here’s a report on the break-downs. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/13/us/politics/capitol-police-riot-report.html

                The capitol police were not criminal, like the rioters, but were not competently led or prepared. Hypothetical scenarios are futile. It is possible to say stun grenades would have provoked greater violence rather than less. Arguing hypotheticals is a waste of time and a distraction from the issues that need to be addressed.

              • Joe, again its being glossed over, like who are these three, and why can’t the chief make decisions, and of these 4 mentioned who decided for the anemic response on Jan. 6. and why. what was the processes of that decision making for that anemic response.

                its being glossed over, no details at all , Joe.

                “The senators are heavily critical of the Capitol Police Board, a three-member panel that includes the heads of security for the House and Senate and the Architect of the Capitol. The board is now required to approve requests by the police chief, even in urgent situations. The report recommends that its members “regularly review the policies and procedures” after senators found that none of the board members on Jan. 6 understood their own authority or could detail the statutory requirements for requesting National Guard assistance.

                Two of the three members of the board, the House and Senate sergeants at arms, were pushed out in the days after the attack. Sund also resigned under pressure.

                Congress needs to change the law and give the police chief more authority “immediately,” Klobuchar said.”

                And for this one,

                “The senators also criticize the FBI and the Homeland Security Department for downplaying online threats and for not issuing formal intelligence bulletins that help law enforcement plan.

                In a response to the report, the Capitol Police acknowledged the need for improvements, some of which they said they are already making. “Law enforcement agencies across the country rely on intelligence, and the quality of that intelligence can mean the difference between life and death,” the statement said.”

                Well that was already countered by the FBI here, Joe:

                https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/capitol-riot-fbi-intelligence/2021/01/12/30d12748-546b-11eb-a817-e5e7f8a406d6_story.html

                “A day before rioters stormed Congress, an FBI office in Virginia issued an explicit warning that extremists were preparing to travel to Washington to commit violence and “war,” according to an internal document reviewed by The Washington Post that contradicts a senior official’s declaration the bureau had no intelligence indicating anyone at last week’s demonstrations in support of President Trump planned to do harm.”

                And.

                That s why I think the Jan. 6 committee is crap.

              • JoeAm says:

                I think they’ve done the best job in the history of hearings. The Hutchinson testimony was riveting. The revelations woke DOJ up. Tremendous job. I’d say spectacular if that lying loser Trump were in jail by now.

                Oh, well. Guess we’ll just have to disagree. lol

              • You don’t think that’s a big misstep, Joe. to say the FBI and feds didn’t provide info only to discover that they actually did. Like I said that kinda paints the other portions of the investigations, Joe. particularly the decision to go anemic on site security. they are glossing over important details for the gotcha stuff.

              • Joe,

                re the video I don’t know who that guy is , is he famous , a congressman or something? or just same random dude.

                Just to clarify I could careless if Trump gets convicted.

                But this notion that 4-6,000 people was a threat to democracy, with 20,000 watching and egging them on, that’s less than 30,000. give or take.

                There’s 170,000,000 registered voters, 81,000,000 voted for Biden and 74,000,000 for Trump in 2020, with 3,000,000 going to Others.

                81,000,000
                74,000,000
                3,000,000
                ____________
                158,000,000 give or take who voted in 2020. let’s round that to 160,000,000 pretty damn good that out of 170,000,000 registered voters 160,000,000 participated.

                And there’s 330,000,000 people living here, Joe

                4-6,000 even counting the 20,000 that showed up in Jan. 6 to egg everyone on.

                My point,

                That’s a drop in the bucket , Joe. how’s that for perspective. No, the sky is not falling. The republic can be improved of course, but democracy isn’t going anywhere any time soon. sorry.

                https://www.census.gov/popclock/

              • JoeAm says:

                My guess is that if Republicans control the Senate and House in 2022, or the presidency in 2024, American democracy is as dead as the nails in Lincoln’s coffin.

              • Karl Garcia says:

                @LCX you are a Marine man, you topple government satellite offices or military bases with just ten of you doing it.(plus some seals, Go navy!) Come on. A few thousand with four ex soldiers can do damage to the capitol.

              • JoeAm says:

                Karl, LCX’s point is that these people would not be guilty of crimes if the cops had been competent, and, besides, there were only 20,000 of the picnickers. lol

              • “@LCX you are a Marine man, you topple government satellite offices or military bases with just ten of you doing it.(plus some seals, Go navy!) Come on. A few thousand with four ex soldiers can do damage to the capitol.”

                karl, damage to the Capitol yes as a physical building maybe even deaths to legislators, but to say the nation was in peril that very day is just ludicrous, cuz again its DC… which means cavalry was just around the corner. tho’ my

                issue also is that why wasn’t the cavalry already sufficiently posted to avert this? Juan says theres “intelligence failure” but that just wrong.

                But you are correct less people have done more damage in 3rd world countries before. But the US is not just some 3rd world country, there’s systems and processes in place ones i’ve already described.

              • “Karl, LCX’s point is that these people would not be guilty of crimes if the cops had been competent, and, besides, there were only 20,000 of the picnickers. lol”

                Its cause and effect , Joe. proper planning prevents piss poor performance, and intelligence did not fail that day, it just wasn’t heeded.

                If the Capitol had site security and crowd control, it would’ve simply been a protest, where everyone packs up their signs and accompaniments at end of day.

                Peazy easy.

            • Karl Garcia says:

              The complete package applies only to a single article but in comment threads one thing leads to another. But you are correct even if one thing leads to the other the previous argument must stand on its own.
              I too am bad with my sentence construction sometimes my sentences are like ending with a punchline.
              Another correct observation is seeing a long overexplained comment with no conclusion can be mind bongling.

              • Karl Garcia says:

                That was for @ Juan.(above)

                Monday morning quarterbacking of LCX extended till Tuesday evening pacific time.

              • karl ,

                Its not monday morning quarter backing on a Tues evening. Let me explain, here’s Juan’s take and its the point of the Jan. 6 committee on prime time,

                “What caused the attack was more than yelling and shouting lies. It was seriously grounded on meticulous planning and well-coordinated subterfuge made by a cabal of Trump supporters to stop Congress’ work to formalize Biden’s victory.”

                My take,

                If it was so elaborate and meticulous then a high barricade and/or concertina wire should be its least concern. But in fact whatever complex plans this Trump “cabal” had, in fact it could’ve been thwarted easily by simply having more means to prevent invasion of the Capitol. so either

                the Capitol is just complacent or there’s coordination with this Trump “cabal”, because the one simple thing that could’ve prevented all this was not done (all those barriers and concertina wires, that’s easily accessible in DC, karl, especially becuz of the previous summer).

                So not really MMQB’ing but ,

                inquiring minds wanna know why this portion of the Jan. 6 investigation was glossed over. Who decided the anemic response and why. there must’ve been people that countered that decision. Yet its crickets. so its all connected, karl.

                On one hand, let’s forget about why the Capitol building was not guarded properly, on the other hand it was this complex plot by this Trump “cabal”. Was it just coincidence then or part of this “subterfuge” that Juan’s alluding to. Liz Cheney has no reason any more to pursue all this,

                but the decision for the anemic response seems ripe and could be fruitful. That’s where the money is!

              • Karl Garcia says:

                One day I will get it.
                But in my view 2c or less due to inflation

                Intelligence preparation and surprise

                Pearl harbor still happened but not due to complacency.
                Reading history Eisenhower expected the Japanese aggressiveness since the 1930 something. Battle plan Orange and stuff.
                Eienhower is a good strategist but even MacArthur thinks he is chicken little so he translated that impression to many people so Boom!
                No one had it coming even if told so by one of their chief strategists.

              • Karl Garcia says:

                Intelligence was there the preparation there was Macarthur expected more men but only a few volunteered.
                Where is the failure? Is it in translation?

                It would be impossible to sue all abled bodied men of desertion.
                There were a few sued in the 30s for not wanting to be drafted.

                We got less men than required. All the calculations of risks were made all good plans of mice and men goes awry.

              • Well in Pearl Harbor you were dealing with Japanese planes and bombers , karl. In the Capitol, 4-6,000 person mob hell bent on entering the building and taking people hostage, but simple high barriers and concertina wire could avert that. Can’t use high barriers and concertina wires for Japanese planes.

              • “Intelligence was there the preparation there was Macarthur expected more men but only a few volunteered.”

                karl,

                are you talking about the battle of Corrigidor ? cuz high barriers and concertina wires wouldn’t have stood against Japanese bombardment. but those would’ve averted the Jan. 6 mob.

              • Karl Garcia says:

                Just continuing my ww2 soliloquy

                https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Defense_Act_of_1935

                Provisions
                This act provided for the creation, by 1946, via an annual appropriation of 16,000,000 pesos, of the following forces:

                A regular army force of 10,000 troops (formed largely from the Philippine Scouts and the Philippine Constabulary)
                A reserve army of 400,000
                The Offshore Patrol, which was to possess 36 torpedo boats
                A Philippine Army Air Corps of 100 tactical bombers

                ====

                What happened

                https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Philippine_Army

                Development was slow; 1936 was largely devoted to building camps and facilities, with the first conscripts called up on January 1, 1937.[10] A major problem was the formation of a military-officer corps, with constabulary officers trained in law enforcement and limited numbers of Philippine Scouts officers becoming senior officers in the new force.[10] By the end of 1939, the reserve force numbered 104,000 men and 4,800 officers.[10] The Philippine Army Air Corps had about forty planes and a hundred trained pilots by 1940.[11] The offshore patrol’s development was more problematic, with only two British boats delivered before the war in Europe cut off further deliveries and a struggle to build boats under license locally produced only one boat by October 1941.[11] President Quezon and others recognized that the naval defense was inadequate protection against a first-rate naval power, but the Philippines had neither the money nor industrial base to provide adequate naval force and relied on the assumption that the United States Navy would not idly stand by if the Philippines were attacked.[11]

                When the war with Japan began, the Philippine Army was six years from its founding in December 1935 and about five years from the 1946 date at which it was to be fully operational.[12] The naval force which was to protect it against a first-rate naval power was in ruins at Pearl Harbor;[12] the Japanese had pilots standing by fueled-and-loaded bombers in Formosa, prepared to strike the Philippines.[13]

              • Karl Garcia says:

                Yeah apple and oranges.

                but all elements of strategy intelligence gathering, preparation execution and failure of execution
                still there

              • Battle of Corregidor was more akin to the Alamo,

                even if they posted sentry ships reinforcements outside Manila bay, the Japanese clearly outnumbered the US/Philippine forces, so those sentry ships other armaments would be like high barriers and concertina wires, but with superior force just untenable, karl. losing battle, symbolic more than anything. just like the Alamo.

                Pearl Harbor however if we equate sentry ships to barricades or concertina wires, then all that perimeter stuff would’ve helped greatly, but again you’re dealing with skies and speed here. there were even also small Japanese submarines involved. so over and under. whereas Jan. 6 was just on land.

                As for this idea of intelligence failure it wasn’t, FBI clearly addressed that, how the Capitol police interpreted it is the thing that needs uncovering. who the heirarchy of processing that intel and acting on it, and in the end who made the call to go anemic. that process i’m less familiar with, but

                that’s probably an important piece, karl. just glossed over.

              • Karl Garcia says:

                The right wing “school of thought”, accusation or conspiracy theory is The FBI instigated the whole thing.

                Cold water was doused. For it to be an eye opener, we may need eyelid speculums.

              • karl,

                The FBI couldn’t have orchestrated a whole coup because that’s not what they are designed to do, the CIA does stuff like that. and that requires a bunch of shadowy stuff.

                The FBI since 9/11 have gotten introuble for entrapment, essentially because their informants wanting to get paid or please their handlers (FBI agents), they make shit up or entice young kids to actually committ terrorism.

                that was in the 2000s, so after the FBI’s stance in Gitmo re tortures they’ve taken a very lets do all this by the book stance. So the FBI watches itself very closely, and like the military moves its agents around often, which alleviates familiarity and if you move around alot you are constantly watching your back,

                So I don’t buy into the FBI creating the events at the Capitol on Jan. 6.

                But they did give the Capitol intelligence, i’m sure DHS too, etc. but that intelligence fell on deaf ears, so what I wanna really know is who’s ears, and what they said about that 120,000 number of angry Trump supporters coming in– given

                the stuff that happened that previous summer and the election fraud stuff, why as Juan has described they just assumed Trump supporters were happy go luck individuals, when they’ve seen the Michigan kidnapping plot play, etc. etc.

                So Juan’s wrong no intelligence failure and Joe’s right re his context surrounding Jan. 6 you lump that in with intelligence. People knew.

                That’s why its crazy they opted for just those airport barriers remember those , karl, when you come out of Manila int’l airport way back when and your friends and family who want pasalubong are waiting behind a haphazard barrier, well those were the barriers they used.

                And they for sure used better high barricades that previous summer, so logistically all those were still available. but opted to not use.

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