Rising from victimhood
Centerpiece Sculpture of the Crucified and Risen Christ at the Parish of the Holy Sacrifice, U.P. Diliman
By Pinoy in Europe
For many centuries, Filipinos have seen themselves as victims. As part of colonial manipulation, the Spanish friars inculcated into a formerly warrior people a spirit of passivity and glorified victimhood similar to what they were not able to teach to people in Europe anymore, which had passed from the Middle Ages into the Renaissance. This is why we Filipinos love the rituals of Good Friday, the rituals of being a victim, the masochistic rituals of self-flagellation and self-crucifixion. This is why we have many different martyrs as heroes, not those who lived to successfully finish their missions.
What we forget it that Jesus did not just die on the cross, but that he rose again. He was an underdog who refused to choose the way of the Sword on Maundy Thursday, because those that live by the sword die by the sword. Son of God, he was an underdog by choice, living among the common people and preaching to them. He despaired just close to dying; asking why his father had forsaken him, yet in a final act of faith, commended his spirit unto his father’s hands. What happened after is more important – he confronted the Devil himself and was in the end resurrected from the dead.
Time for us Filipinos to rise as well
The SAF 44 and 23 Moros were a bloody sacrifice, a reminder of our nation’s divisions. The quarrels that erupted within our nation after Mamasapano may have been a necessary catharsis of many things that we, not being an open people, have held and felt inside us for so many years.
The spirits of the past came back to haunt us in their most ghastly of apparitions. Fear, anger, hatred, divisiveness and political trials held us in thrall – we could not escape their grasp. Our nation was immobilized, nearly dead. We watched an unfolding drama before our eyes, transfixed.
We flagellated ourselves and one another, some of us tried to nail the culprit of choice on a cross. None really succeeded, no heads rolled like in the ancient days of our headhunting ancestors.
Now Easter has come, the Feast of Resurrection, of new life. These things must finally end.
God stayed the hand of Abraham when he was about to sacrifice Isaac, thus ending human sacrifice. Much later, he sacrificed his own son in order to put a final end to an old and bloody tribal tradition.
This should remind us Filipinos that the age of vindictive justice, of seeking culprits must finally end. We must serve justice where it is due, but only when proven and deserved. No witch hunts.
Time for the Nation to come to new life
Through his resurrection, Jesus overcame the old Dionysian order of things – the primitive, emotional order of cycles of mutual destruction and vindictiveness that regularly cleansed the ancient world with blood, and moved to the new Apollonian order of rationality and purposefulness.
We have as a nation been through countless Dionysian cycles – the wars among our tribes that allowed the Spanish to conquer us easily, the self-destructiveness of the Katipunan, the crises our renewed democracy has had since it was re-established, the last being the one after Mamasapano.
It is time for the nation to resurrect, to arise out of the ashes of countless Dionysian cycles into a new Apollonian order, to take charge of our own destiny and to get the work of the nation done.
Time to overcome our sense of victimhood
Underdogs have many advantages, wrote Malcolm Gladwell, because they learned to make do with difficult circumstances. Filipinos have a strong sense of pakiramdam, of sensing what others feel. They have the capacity to improvise, deskarte, which many people used to organization do not have.
They definitely have resilience to adapt to difficult circumstances. But it is not enough to stay there. If resilience can become antifragility, the capability to become stronger with every shock, to learn from every calamity, the Filipinos can become a truly strong people. This is the confidence I have.
The key to this is to overcome our sense of victimhood, to have our sacrifices in mind, yet LEARN from them in order to be stronger for future. If we manage to resurrect our nation and stride into the future with Apollonian determination, the sacrifices of Mamasapano will not have been in vain.
Being human means suffering and overcoming
President Aquino is an example of this – he had his difficulties in dealing with the crisis in the beginning. Yet his recent speeches show that he has risen to the occasion. Three vital examples:
- His speech to a university volleyball team calling upon the nation to work together as a team, telling all to be sportsmanlike and constructive in spite of all political competition.
- His speech to the PNPA explaining what happened in Mamasapano, asking for understanding for mistakes made, without blaming anyone, which may have finally given closure for many.
- His speech about BBL calling upon the nation to discuss it constructively, introducing the group of respected leaders that shall review it, and appealing for it as a unique chance for peace.
Who knows what phases of desperation, resignation then confronting the issues he has gone through privately in order to find the strength of spirit to deliver decisive speeches and actions? He is not Jesus Christ, he is human. Christ BECAME human to go through the suffering each of us can have.
Though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil
Monotheistic religions were an improvement over pagan religions in that they conquered the fear and disorder symbolized by numerous pagan gods, putting in their place the order and security of one paternalistic god. Christianity went one step further – it is the story of a son finding a new vision to build upon that of his father, finding strength, maturity and independence. It is a success story.
The nation has gone through its own Calvary with Mamasapano – masses who cheered a leader as the son of a revered figure wanting him punished while cheering villains. Some wanted to go by the sword like in the garden of Gethsemane, many felt desperation, fear, anger, confusion, resignation; some confronted evil. 67 Filipinos have died. May their sacrifice be remembered. But may it be a one-time sacrifice like that of Jesus; may the nation find new strength and life like he was able to.
Happy Easter, Philippines: hopefully now confident and ready to move forward with new strength. By Pentecost, may we be able to speak in tongues yet understand one another, whether we are Christian, Muslim or Lumad: whether we are businessmen, nationalists or common people.
The Society of Honor by Joe America 
Joe, many thanks. This is the music that inspired the words:
https://joeam.com/2015/04/02/when-military-is-undisciplined-failure-follows/#comment-116877 – this is an important comment to what I am saying above:
My father told me once: we Filipinos have to learn to trust in our own selves first, then in our fellow Filipinos, then finally we will be able to trust foreigners.
Kailangan natin ng tiwala sa sarili, tapos sa kapwa nating Pilipino, sa wakas maari tayong maging tunay na bukas sa banyaga.
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Self esteem first. The trust ones fellow Filipinos more – but not naively, we are still the Kingdom of Deceit. https://joeam.com/2015/04/02/when-military-is-undisciplined-failure-follows/#comment-116814
44 brave and noble warriors of a group once formed by Soldier King died in a battle that also killed 23 men and women of the South, helped by some long-nosed and tall Men of the West but not helped by some of their fellow warriors. Many blame the Troubled King.
The Troubled King is an earnest man, something difficult to be in the Kingdom of Deceit.
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Then next, find a way to cooperate with foreigners, but keep our own interests in mind.
But first step is to rise from victimhood, from blame games, from all this immature nonsense. Address risks, but without fear. That is what my BBL article was all about…
I was baptized under the above crucifix, went to church under it. It is by National Artist Napoleon Abueva and symbolizes the Crucified and Risen Christ, a symbol of overcoming.
Well said. I will lay low on this discussion thread, as there is a time to sow, and a time to reap. My only thought is that I think the goal ought to be to find way to get foreigners to cooperate with the Philippines, which requires Filipinos to figure out how to attend to the interests of the foreign leaders, in that context. Barring the US from Philippine bases while expecting the Americans to send forces to push the Chinese out of Philippine seas is not the best way to put that calculation together. Giving the US bases to keep the seas free for passage for all nations is a better way, with Filipinos pushing the Chinese out of Philippine waters, an isolated action under the broader US protective umbrella.. If China resists, then US interests are threatened. But the US has to be here for that threat to be real, and defensible.
Sorry for going off topic. The elaboration led my keyboard astray.
Be wise, like the Kiangans like to say. A warrior people who are so confident with their own culture that they can adopt country music and be loyal American allies without fearing loss of their own cultural identity. Because they HAVE their identity and don’t need to find it.
Those who have lost their identity the most are the Christian Filipinos, followed by the Muslim Filipinos who now try to identify with Jihadism which is alien to their nature.
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Go for it like Germany and Turkey, who know they are good, but just have enough to keep Russians or the forces from the Orient at bay for about a week or two until the US arrives with aircraft carriers. Sometime the Yanks can be bastards, but they are all in all in theory committed to certain ideals they sometimes break but quickly return to when the call of conscience reaches them, being Christians. Russians and Chinese usually neither have a conscience nor a sense of truth, plus great brutality. See my post in previous blog on that.
Like Joe said, it is give and take. Germany has Ramstein Air Force base, they did not send all Yanks home after unification – but ALL Russians which was a good thing to do.
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They did not send troops to Iraq, but they did send a lot of the old Russian junk they inherited from the East Germans so that Americans could use it there. The M1 Abrams benefits from good old German Panzer gun technology. Germans fight in Afghanistan.
My father, a true nationalist, is happy when he sees reports of American drones being supplied to the Philippines. He told me 20 years ago – I prefer the Americans to Chinese. They will be very big in years to come, we do not have much time to prepare ourselves.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transactional_analysis – defines the following states of mind:
At any given time, a person experiences and manifests his or her personality through a mixture of behaviours, thoughts, and feelings. Typically, according to TA, there are three ego-states that people consistently use:
‘Parent (“exteropsyche”):’ a state in which people behave, feel, and think in response to an unconscious mimicking of how their parents (or other parental figures) acted, or how they interpreted their parent’s actions. For example, a person may shout at someone out of frustration because they learned from an influential figure in childhood the lesson that this seemed to be a way of relating that worked.
‘Adult (“neopsyche”):’ a state of the ego which is most like a computer processing information and making predictions absent major emotions that could affect its operation. Learning to strengthen the Adult is a goal of TA. While a person is in the Adult ego state, he/she is directed towards an objective appraisal of reality.
‘Child (“archaeopsyche”):’ a state in which people behave, feel, and think similarly to how they did in childhood. For example, a person who receives a poor evaluation at work may respond by looking at the floor and crying or pouting, as when scolded as a child. Conversely, a person who receives a good evaluation may respond with a broad smile and a joyful gesture of thanks. The Child is the source of emotions, creation, recreation, spontaneity, and intimacy.
Often, Filipinos are in a child state – either happy and subservient, or rebelliously angry.
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Miriam Santiago has not yet gone beyond this child-state of rebellion against the US.
GRP has assumed the parent-state the US used to have towards us in colonial times.
The ideal state is when two parties act as adults towards one another. If I made a blog site of my own, I would call it Grow Up Philippines = GOP. Joe recognizes people who are in the adult state of mind and talks to them as adults. This is why I am here. There are other Americans married to Filipinas who are basically losers back home and assume the parent-state towards Filipinos – either benevolent or looking down. Joe is not of that sort. This is something to appreciate. A mature US-Philippine relationship would be grand…
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karpman_drama_triangle – this is also an important thing:
The model posits three habitual psychological roles (or roleplays) which people often take in a situation:
The person who plays the role of a victim
The person who pressures, coerces or persecutes the victim, and
The rescuer, who intervenes, seemingly out of a desire to help the situation or the underdog.
Of these, the rescuer is the least obvious role. In the terms of the drama triangle, the rescuer is not a person helping someone in an emergency. It is someone who has a mixed or covert motive that is actually benefiting egoically in some way from being “the one who rescues”. The rescuer has a surface motive of resolving the problem, and appears to make great efforts to solve it, but also has a hidden motive to not succeed, or to succeed in a way that they benefit. For example, they may feel a sense of self-esteem or status as a rescuer, or enjoy having someone dependent or trusting of them – and act in a way that ostensibly seems to be trying to help, but at a deeper level plays upon the victim in order to continue getting their payoff.[citation needed] (See below). As transactional analyst Claude Steiner says:
… the Victim is not really as helpless as he feels, the Rescuer is not really helping, and the Persecutor does not really have a valid complaint.[6]
now there are many situations where this drama triangle applies.
VICTIM – PURSUER – RESCUER
– Philippines -> China -> USA
– Philippines -> Binay -> LP
These are just a few examples, you will find many others in daily life and politics…
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Interesting. I would place Binay as “rescuer”:
– Philippines -> Oligarchy -> Binay
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Also a possibility. Roles can switch quickly in the drama triangle.
Dead SAF 44 -> Noynoy -> destabilizing forces
Noynoy -> destabilizing forces -> Joe America
Philippines -> Joe America -> Parekoy
It all depends on ones perception of course in that merry-go-round…
I found this on CNN – http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/31/living/funding-jesus-ministry/index.html
The reaction of my simplistic mind, which at that moment was relating Easter to a time for counting blessings, was to attempt to make a list of past and present Pinays whose role in the struggle for nation building is akin to that of Mary Magdalene, Joanna, and Susanna, and many others who provided for Jesus and his twelve apostles during the period of great struggle for the Jesus movement.
My list of Mary Magdalene’s, et al:
Cory, Gabriela, Chit, Leila, Meilu, Leni, Haydee Y, Heidi M.
You forgot Kris Aquino, who was always there for her older brother.
Some could think she is a Mary Magdalene from her previous lifestyle.
Kris is ardent in her faith. It is strange to me how easily some question her morality. Again, the listener/viewer often overlays his weakness on others.
People like to refer to her many men before…
I was actually making a joke about those kinds of people.
Besides, after Jesus told Mary Magdalene to go forth and sin no more, she became very ardent in her faith, so there is no contradiction in that – just like St. Augustine went through nearly all sins initially, maybe even knowing Doris Day before she was a virgin.
Well, I don’t consider that bad morality, myself, but “exploring”. ahahaha
You know how judgemental Filipinos can often be – when it is somebody outside their in-group. And how hypocritical – lots of things are OK if you pretend they are not happening. Medieval Catholicism, not my Catholicism…
Correct, this is one of the two melodies I play again and again when a feeling of “despair” overwhelms me. This piece of Bach to create hope, the other is “Otce nasch”, “Our Father” by a Russian orthodox choir, in the dark, to let me cry as a child and forget.
Happy Easter!
Same to you.
Happy Easter to everyone!
@PiE, ok yung blog mo! May soundtrack pa! Hope you continue writing.
Thanks, same to you. Yes I will continue writing. Quality over quantity. Something I had to learn with my comments too. My journalism school I got from my father in high school, so I am now completing that training on the fly – structure, research, analysis and more.
Beautifully written, and I’d bet more powerful than many of the homilies given out today.
Thanks. 🙂
It comes out of conviction, out of experience, and out of faith once lost and found again.
I lost my faith when I went to Slovenia in 1999 to party. The day before, Easter Sunday, I went into the Cathedral of Villach in Kärnten, Carinthia. Even though I was praying like everybody else, I was constantly being jostled. Saw the Catholic Church as the white man’s faith from then on, a total and complete lie. Child molestation scandals caused me to leave the Church much later – well also to avoid mandatory Church taxes in Germany. Didn’t tell them where I was baptized though, so my Filipino baptism was never voided. Good.
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1. Ah, a Dionysian call for an Apollonian order.
2. The metaphors are mixed from Greek polytheism to Christian monotheism.
3. It was Nietzsche, of course, who saw in the aesthetic of the dichotomy the birth of tragedy.
4. It is true that Filipinos are more Dionysian than Apollonian. We drink, we carouse, and we make merry. If ever we use reason (Apollo), we use it to justify our passions (Dionysus).
4.1. We are led — and led astray — by our passions. Just this year, we had the passion for the pope and compassion followed closely by the diametrical passion of anger for presidential resignation or apology.
5. And the passion leads us to Christ’s passion, which is his suffering and death. This is the Christian God’s sacrifice of his Son.
6. The notion of sacrifice is archetypal. I have called the Rule of Self Sacrifice one of the Tests of Loyalty.
7. But the sacrifice of Jesus is not real tragedy. It is kayfabe… because He was resurrected. He did not die. But His death has been used to anchor the paradigm of salvation… which I personally reject.
8. Why is there a need for salvation?
9. It may be ill-mannered of me to question Christian eschatology on Eastertide… but it was Nietzsche who announced, “God is dead”. There are many interpretations of his announcement. I take it to mean that we are in the post-monotheism era or, at least, pass monotheistic exclusivism. People just have not heard the good news, which is not the coming of the Kingdom of God but the possibility of heaven on earth.
9. Perhaps the sooner we step away from our godly beliefs with open minds and hearts, and discover the true meaning of spirituality, the sooner we will find ourselves in the face of the Other.
10. Then there will be no victims… because there will be no attackers. Isn’t this the meaning of the Second Greatest Commandment?
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8-10 are interesting points to reflect on, they go beyond what I have thought of so far.
Well in the end, for progress you have to go beyond the cult of victimhood.
Have fun, but use one’s reasoning a little bit more – take charge.
@edgar
x-
7. But the sacrifice of Jesus is not real tragedy. It is kayfabe… because He was resurrected. He did not die. But His death has been used to anchor the paradigm of salvation… which I personally reject.
8. Why is there a need for salvation?
-x
Why is there a need for salvation?
Because, for one,
“The wages of sin is death.”
…
“O death, where is thy sting?
O grave, where is thy victory?
The sting of death is sin; and
the strength of sin is the law.
But thanks be to God,
which giveth us the victory
through our Lord Jesus Christ.”
I believe Dr. Jose Rizal, who died non-Catholic, was saved.
i7sharp
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If death is the wages of sin, what is the wages of birth?
*****
Plants die, animals die, babies die…. and their sins?
Plants didn’t sin, neither are animals. It is only man that committed sin, that needed Christ’s salvation.
Babies have a special place in God’s heart. It could be seen by the the rites of passage when a young boy is of age where he can decide on his own.
When Adam sinned, we inherited that sin. Even though God gave us the Law through Moses, but since we have this sinful nature, we cannot really follow the Law of Moses through our own effort.
God in his wisdom sent his son, Jesus Christ, so he can represent us. He became the Lamb, like what the Jews do with lamb of sacrifice to atone for their sin year after year.
When Christ died at the Cross and rose again after three days, it sealed the new covenant between man and God through Christ. Now we have hope that we are saved from our sin, not from our own efforts, but only through Jesus Christ.
Kayfabe is be fake a Pro-wrestling jargon.
“8. Why is there a need for salvation?”
This is exactly my first question when informed that I needed to be saved. “Salvation from what?”
Here’s what I found:
1. God created a perfect world (paradise – no death, no pain – everybody is happy, everybody is perfect) for his pleasure. His creation is expected to please Him.
2. Man sinned (apparently, because he has free-will). For man to please God, free-will is required.
3. Because of sin, man is separated from God. There is now death, pain, man is now sometimes happy instead of always, etc.
4. God so loved man that he wanted man to enjoy a perfect world with Him. But man that is not perfect is not allowed on a perfect world.
4-a. Problem. Man can’t understand God. God needed to talk to man like a man.
4-b. God sent his Son to be a man to talk to man. If you believed the Son, you will now be “saved from sin” (ie. almost perfect). Almost perfect man now welcome to the perfect world in due time.
I may have misrepresented the Christian doctrine, please correct me if I misunderstood it. In between the items I specified above, there are a lot of philosophers who discussed it in details. Pascal is even willing to gamble with it.
For items 1-4 to make sense, I think it’s important to acknowledge that:
a. There is God.
b. You need to please God.
c. Bible is the Word of God and is the truth.
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Adrian,
Thanks.
1. When I posed the question on item 8, I was asking a rhetorical question. The point was for the reader to reflect on the question, and not to elicit an answer.
2. However, you have kindly provided the answers from Christianity, and I thank you for the enumeration!
3. Let me say that I knew the Christian answers and, knowing them, have consciously rejected them after considerable deliberation.
4. Why?
5. Basically because they beg the question. They raise more questions than the answers themselves, and are therefore wanting.
6. I do not intend to go through your items point by point. Let me just raise a few.
6.1. On 1. If God is perfect and omnipotent, why did He not create a perfect world for all time?
6.2. On 2. If God is perfect and omniscient, why did he not foresee that man would sin? If the gift of Free Will is given, why penalize the recipient for exercising the gift?
6.3. Let me jump to 4-b, which is the centrality of Jesus. From Josephivo’s post, Christians comprise less than one-third of the current world population. This means that more than two-thirds of the population will go to Hell in a basket. Note that we are just considering the current world population, and not counting heathens past. If God loves all his children and presumably is a just God, why would he condemn the majority?
6.3.1. And not all Christians are deserving of salvation if we consider the question of Last Minute Repentance – or the Death Bed Confession — as posed by Andrew (Lim).
7. On the acknowledgements.
7.1. I do not reject the presence of the divine. I reject the anthropomorphic characterization.
7.2. If God is perfect, why would He need to be pleased? To me, that makes God needy. And – sorry, to me — a needy God is a petty God.
7.2.1. The Christian cosmology of heaven and hell is… sorry, again to me, is absurd. The biblical upper limit of man’s lifespan is 120 years. Depending on where we live, the average lifespan is, say, 3 scores and ten. In the context of eternity, that is not even the blink of the blink of an eye. And for a man’s disbelief, this needy God would condemn a man to eternal hellfire? Talk of unusual punishments!
7.3. Generally, each religion has its own God and holy book. Which God and which book is the truth?
8. As you say, these questions have been discussed endlessly by philosophers and pilosopos, and there are nuances to each answer. But so far there have been no definite answers. This is where and why faith comes in.
9. Going back to 6.3. The problem of what I call exclusivism – the belief that there is only one and true God — has always been at the heart of my skepticism. Each religion claims to have the exclusive truth, and since the claims are contradictory… it does not compute.
9.1. Pascal’s Wager works only if one accepts that there is only one and true God.
10. I think religion or spirituality, in the broader sense, is like water that seeks its own level. Each of us select the answer that most satisfies us. And, in a just universe, each answer must be valid. And somehow in this vast universe or multiverse, there must be a scheme that accommodates the truth of all answers.
10.1. Or it may be that the universe is indifferent.
10.2. Meanwhile we lambast and kill each other for our individual faiths. Rather than adopting this stance of arrogant and murderous belief, should we not adopt a position of humble enquiry? Of being open to the wonder of existence and being kind to each other?
11. JoeAm asks the question, “Why?”
11.1. I rather like Khayyam’s answer: “A Book of Verses underneath the Bough, / A Jug of Wine, a Loaf of Bread, — and Thou / Beside me singing in the Wilderness — / Oh, Wilderness were Paradise enow!”
11.2. But I am of an age where a jug of wine would leave me comatose, and Thou would have me more lachrymose than jocose, so I turn to Blake’s answer: “To see a World in a Grain of Sand / And a Heaven in a Wild Flower, / Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand / And Eternity in an hour.”
11.2.1. And the questionable lesson: “Man was made for Joy and Woe; / And when this we rightly know / Thro’ the World we safely go.”
11.2.2. And the close: “Every Morn and every Night / Some are Born to sweet delight. / Some are Born to sweet delight / Some are Born to Endless Night.”
11.2.3. I think Blake was fatalistic, and in contrast I think man is perfectible. We do not need to be born to endless night. We can create a world of sweet delight. This is the central theme running through this blog site in general and of PinoyInEurope’s post in particular.
11.2.4. And to be able to do that we must realize the possibility of an “Eternity in an hour.” Perhaps this is the answer when mystics say we should live in the Now. Rather than the religious promise of Eternal Life in the hereafter — which to me is snake oil, and has been used to enchain us – we should turn to the Eternal Now in this life.
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@ edgar lores
“10.2. Meanwhile we lambast and kill each other for our individual faiths. Rather than adopting this stance of arrogant and murderous belief, should we not adopt a position of humble enquiry? Of being open to the wonder of existence and being kind to each other?”
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Edgar,
Regarding your “… being open to the wonder of existence and being kind to each other”
1.
For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen,
being understood by the things that are made,
even his eternal power and Godhead;
so that they are without excuse.
Romans 1:20
Let me hasten to respectfully ask you to read the context of this:
And Jesus said unto him,
Verily I say unto thee,
To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.
Luke 23:43
2.
“Love thy neighbour as thyself.”
Please see more here::
http://j.mp/kj-love
Salamat.
“For many centuries, Filipinos have seen themselves as victims. As part of colonial manipulation, the Spanish friars inculcated into a formerly warrior people a spirit of passivity and glorified victimhood…”
Yup, It’s Darwin’s world afterall.
What we forget is that Jesus did not just die on the cross, but that he rose again.”
Zero evidence for the rising. It’s a myth. A desert tale. Told perhaps by hallucinating and delusional follower. The whole Christian faith is anchored on myth.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/05/world/middleeast/findings-reignite-debate-on-claim-of-jesus-bones.html?_r=0
“Son of God, he was an underdog by choice…”
Yes, that over-hyped drama again. God wanted to save mankind from His own vindictive wrath so He sent His son (which is actually Himself) to be tortured because of the apple thing.
“He despaired just close to dying; asking why his father had forsaken him,”
Good question. If God just really wanted to forgive (or was it to save?) mankind, why go through all the torture and the drama orchestrated by Yourself? Masyadong ek-ek at korny ang storyline.
If this is the narrative formula for Filipino redemption, I think I want to despair too.:-)
“Zero evidence for the rising.” Which is why it is called belief.
“If this is the narrative formula for Filipino redemption” better than all the self-flagellation and all the cult of victimhood which is the aspect Filipinos emphasize.
The Christian narrative is borne out of self-flagellation and glorified victimhood. Filipinos act out the part because it’s been drilled into them by their Christian (specifically Catholic) culture.
Any other Catholic country in the world where people still do that?
The Philippines is stuck in medieval Catholicism somehow.
Well, yes. You can start with Latin America.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_%28PPP%29_per_capita
Yeah, right – they have gone beyond that, just look a their GDP/PPP per capita:
Uruguay 19,679
Venezuela 18,453
Mexico 17,390
Costa Rica 14,344
Ecuador 10,908
Guatemala 7,290
in contrast:
Bhutan 7,197
Philippines 6,597
Congo, Rep. 6,232
Some folklore may still be there in Latin America, but no longer much of the attitude…
Or Catholic Europe:
Italy 34,103
Spain 31,942
Malta 30,567
Portugal 25,643
Poland 23,273
Non-sequitor.
Feelings of victimhood cannot be reflected in per capita GDP. Productivity has multi-lateral factors. Mexico, for example, has the advantage of proximity in trading with its more prosperous neighbor to the north. Its higher GDP is not reflective of its societal dysfunction.
Where do you see a victim mentality among modern Mexicans?
Or are you just biased because they don’t speak good English?
Assuming Yankee prejudices is not international sophistication.
How about Uruguay? How about Venezuela? Most Latin Americans I meet now here in Europe are a new generation with a lot of drive. OK, they don’t speak that much English, so they would not qualify for a call center in Makati. But that is just Filipino prejudice.
Who knows, really, the resentments of Mexicans. But to imply that they have somehow transcended and able to create a more just, equitable, and prosperous society is a stretch. Especially from the point of view of native Mexicans.
Carlos Slim, the richest dude in the world, is a Lebanese whose parents immigrated to Mexico in early 1900’s. He was able to amass wealth by virtual monopoly of several businesses.
““Zero evidence for the rising.” Which is why it is called belief.”
I believe therefore it’s true. A false statement.
God is not only the God of love, but of justice. Man had shown that he cannot save him through the observance of the Law of Moses.
God had to send his own Son so through his suffering and resurrection, it would satisfy God’s justice for Jesus was like the scapegoat let into the desert so that God’s punishment for sin could be satisfied. For that one suffering and sacrifice, we now have this salvation that is not of our own making, but of Christ’s.
@Micha
“Zero evidence for the rising. It’s a myth. A desert tale. Told perhaps by hallucinating and delusional follower. The whole Christian faith is anchored on myth.”
What myth, Micha?
1. http://j.mp/ja-mc01
2. http://j.mp/ja-mc02
x-
Dr. Greenleaf, the Royal Professor of Law at Harvard University, was one of the greatest legal minds that ever lived. He wrote the famous legal volume entitled, A Treatise on the Law of Evidence, considered by many the greatest legal volume ever written. Dr. Simon Greenleaf believed the Resurrection of Jesus Christ was a hoax. And he determined, once and for all, to expose the “myth” of the Resurrection. After thoroughly examining the evidence for the resurrection — Dr. Greenleaf came to the exact opposite conclusion! He wrote a book entitled, An Examination of the Testimony of the Four Evangelists by the Rules of Evidence Administered in the Courts of Justice. In which he emphatically stated:
“it was IMPOSSIBLE that the apostles could have persisted in affirming the truths they had narrated, had not JESUS CHRIST ACTUALLY RISEN FROM THE DEAD, . . .”
(Simon Greenleaf, An Examination of the Testimony of the Four Evangelists by the Rules of Evidence Administered in the Courts of Justice, p.29).
-x
“A victim evokes sympathy, right? Victims
are not responsible, right? Victims have the
moral high ground… someone else is
causing the misery, right? Victims can
easily justify why they are right. Victims
allow themselves to be stuck in the status
quo and they excel at seeing the faults in
others, ignoring their own responsibility.
They love to take others’ inventory of faults
and are excellent at blaming. Victims
become hypersensitive to real and
perceived injustice, where any slight
becomes a reason to reject. Victimization is
the toxic wind which fans the fires of dysfunction”.
David W. Earle
—–
Victim mentality is different from being a victim.
People derive benefits from promoting a ‘victim mentality’, and a collective victim mentality develops progressively over time, and eventually becomes a self-perpetuating malaise, with the result of learned helplessness, and an inability to exploit potential within such a culture. It contrasts with filipino OFW’s who can rapidly develop, contribute, and achieve when exposed to other cultures/countries, where a victim mentality is neither prevalent, nor is it generally tolerated. Sympathy can readily turn into disdain when the victim card is overplayed.
An added problem is that many people with victim mentality do not actually want change, particularly if it necessitates effort on their part, and this can result in political and social stagnation. Better the devil you know….
Being a ‘victim’ also becomes a comfort blanket against a world you neither understand, nor can control. Helplessness ensues and the ‘victims’ world contracts to a small domain of mutual reinforcement.
For many it is easier to be a ‘voyeur’ than a ‘player’. No risk means no failure. Accepting responsibility means there is no-one else to blame.
Playing the victim is easy and can be beneficial in the short-term, and often co-exists with a begging bowl mentality.
In the long term it is a recipe for repeating the same mistakes, but always blaming others!
Some of the perceived benefits:
– Attention and validation.
– You don’t have to take risks.
– You don’t have to take major responsibility.
– It makes you feel right, and able to adopt the moral high ground when suited
– A sense of belonging, and mutual re-inforcement
– Others will help in times of need
– An excuse for failure, and to play dumb.
Some of the impacts:
– A short-term perspective with little interest in planning
– Learned helplessness
– Short term
– Lazy, easiest option, risk-averse
– abdicate responsibility
– hypocricy
– blame others
– woe is me – ‘martyr’
– lack of dynamism and passion
– reacts adversely to criticism. Perceives as an attack. Thin skinned.
– ‘us and them’, ‘black and white’ thinking’
– ascribe bad intentions to those who do not agree/conform/belong
– gossip and superficiality. Avoids depth.
Some of the solutions:
– take ownership, and be responsible.
– less focus on the past
– inculcate a more competitive spirit
– find/develop transformational leaders
– do not ‘promote’ a victim culture via the media/church/government
– more emphasis upon personal pride through self-achievement, not hubristic pride from the success of others
– parental upbringing – child education
– less insularity – more international. No man is an island, and no island should be paroquial.
– diversity in media content
– greater opportunity through meritocracy
– focus on success and achievements
– set high standards. Aim for excellence
– mentoring and coaching in companies
The culture of ‘victim mentality’ acts as a barrier to progress, and may well take another 3 – 4 generations before truly expunged. It is learned behaviour from early in life and reinforced in numerous ways, consciously and unconsciously, formally and informally.
It will need new thinking and better leadership to transform the cultural barriers to change.
The current crop of politicians demonstrate no ability, passion or understanding of what is needed, or how to achieve it, which is no real surprise since they largely exhibit ‘victim mentality’ themselves, and are a product of the culture and the vicious cycle.
——
An extract from ‘Symptoms of Victim Mentality’. (shades of Pnoy Aquino!)
1. Failure to accept responsibility
Will do anything to absolve him/herself from personal responsibility for any aspect of their lives. This results in
the following symptom:
2. The Serial Blamer
Absolves themselves from responsibility by
apportioning blame to any other party, other than themselves.
They usually develop the following skill:
3. Rationalization
The victim is adept at drawing creatively from circumstance to apportion blame to external factors. They use all their creative
energies to construct a perfect prison for themselves.
4. Feeling Helpless
If you say something often enough you will start to believe it, victims start believing this fairytale construct that their minds have designed to keep them safe from their own accountability
5. Self Pity
Victims often feel sorry for themselves, this is a vicious cycle where the serial blamer and rationalizer then begin to feed more self pity by continuing the cycle creating more antagonistic forces that strip choice away. They often resort to:
6. Living in the Past
A failure to accept responsibility means a failure to accept things as they are in the present. This person will then, either seek
solemn in the past, where things were “more simple” or again, resort to blaming the past for the current state of their
environment. They tend to:
7. Focus on the Problems
They occupy themselves with problems and are often the people who complain at any opportunity they get. Victims love validation and will relish any chance to complain about their problems.
8. If only/What if
This is a sure sign of a victim mentality, they do not accept things and support regrets like a crucifix. They then continue the cycle by,
9. Separation of Self
Victims separate themselves from anything that resembles responsibility and as such they are separate from the solution.
They are as good playing the waiting game as they are at playing the blame game.
10. Self-absorbed
They need to incorporate their problems into discussions. A narrow perspective and a stubborn attitude
11. Emotionally immature
They perceive anyone who does not agree as enemies, which brings out a vindictive streak. Child-like simplification of emotions. Lack personal maturity and uses emotional appeal to exploit and elicit sympathy.
——
Filipinos are natural born followers, and subservient in character. Over time it has become inbred, and reinforced/exploited by both religion and government, and employers.
It is one aspect of culture which needs to be consciously changed, and replaced with a more competitive spirit and collaborative approach in order to plan ahead, solve problems, and gain respect.
Victim mentality does not produce winners, just whingers.
There are Filipinos and Filipinos. The first, the large majority are real victims, poverty is not their choice but they are victimized by the system set up by the powerful. The second misuse the victim mentality to justify their unchristian behavior. And the culture of the dominant class is dominant indeed.
Yes it is. It is feudal and pseudo-modern at the same time. But uncompetitive.
More focused on elbowing aside others. And keeping the poor where they are.
That is why we need the role models to be more front and center the tony meloto, the dado banatao and like. (I’d add Villar here but he undid a lot of his role model potential as a questionable morals senator)
Everyone wants to be the next Sarah Geronimo, the next John Lloyd Cruz.
We need the successful OFW’s/Businessmen to show our countrymen that there is another way to succeed, not only through corruption or being a singer or showbiz personality.
We are like the African American young men that grow up without a father.
The majority of Filipino people do not have proper role models. If we had them would we improbably use FPJ and Erap as such?
FPJ puwede pa. Erap hindi. I like the African American analogy – we have a lot in common with them: crab mentality, internal racism who is a bit whiter or darker, mutual exploitation.
There is of course some similarity to Latin America as well. We were under the Spanish before we became the little brown brothers of the US, just a few steps above “niggers”.
Luckily we did not lose our own language completely like African Americans. Filipino should be used more to a) polish and advance it to more sophistication and b) in order to reach those who do not speak English well faster. English is a good tool though.
Ah, repeat this comment for the blog I am getting ready for Thursday. It fits perfectly.
The majority of Filipino people do not have proper role models. If we had them would we improbably use FPJ and Erap as such?
========
We have a lot of proper role models so many that FPJ and Erap and their likes are already an excess of it. From Jesus to Mother Theresa to Lorenzo Ruiz to Allah: to Makoy and Ninoy up to Cory and Noynoy. 🙂
The question is not the role model rather the attitude of the follower.
And here the difference is in what a role model is.
If the one following cannot for his life imagine that he/she can follow in the role models’ footsteps then essentially the role model is useless.
Someone must identify with the role model and not simply be amazed by it. The attainability of the role models’ example is important.
One need not exactly ‘follow’ the footsteps’ of a role model to be a success. It is not really the ‘identification’ that matters but the inspiration one gets in having a role model. Role models are there to inspire, guide, influence, drive and help us focus in attaining our goal or objective in life. It’s not an assurance of success but a positive connection between the past and present, the then and now that you can use as knowledge in playing the game of life.
Next week, I am attending a meetup of DOST and other scholars plus enterpreneurs and innovators at Munich University next week. Ang topic: ““Pinay-Pinoy Research & Innovation Initiatives” both in the Philippines and abroad”.
Serious efforts have started to build “Innovation Ecosystems” which result in faster transfer to industrial application. This is something I wrote about in the economy thread, something necessary – and it is already happening quietly in the background.
Ako siguro, hindi na puwedeng role model – but I can and will help with my experience. There is a network of mainly Pisay people and DOST scholars that is forming worldwide. They respect my competence – and know my occasional craziness even from before… 🙂
Attend to my business, help the Philippines via real projects like Karl is doing already, these will be my priorities starting tomorrow. I too have risen from victimhood and whining.
I shall continue here, but with more quality than quantity. My role model is Edgar Lores.
*******
Thanks. Like our host and the open-minded commenters here like yourself, I am just a humble seeker.
*****
Welcome. And I know that I know nothing (Socrates)…
“And if any man think that he knoweth any thing,
he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know.”
1Co0802
Keeps me … reminded. 🙂
And finally, I must write at this point that Duterte will probably do the most to sponsor true industrial development of the Philippines in an independent manner.
Mar Roxas most probably not – he will probably continue to sell Filipino labor as OFWs and BPO people, so we remain the atsoys and atsays of the world.
Which is what the ruling elite wants – not necessarily with the US, but with certain business circles they make their money with at the expense of sustainable and inclusive growth.
———————————————————————————————————–
No place to be ending but somewhere to start is my opinion on the present growth the Philippines has. It is easy money but not for the long-term at all.
A political class that does not want to see this is shortsighted, also for themselves.
———————————————————————————————————–
The foolish man built his house on the sand, the wise man built his upon a rock
USEC Guevarra of DOST is an alum. She is involved with the Philippines Satellite project of DOST.
Happy Easter and many thanks.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victim_mentality You brought me into looking things up:
A victim mentality may manifest itself in a range of different behaviors or ways of thinking and talking:
Blaming others for a situation that one has created oneself or significantly contributed to. Failing or being unwilling to take responsibility for one’s own actions or actions to which one has contributed or for taking action to ameliorate the situation.
Ascribing non-existent negative intentions to other people (similar to paranoia).
Believing that other people are generally or fundamentally luckier and happier (“Why me?”).
Gaining short-term pleasure from feeling sorry for oneself or eliciting pity from others. Eliciting sympathy by telling exaggerated stories about bad deeds of other people (e.g. during gossip).
People with victim mentality may develop convincing and sophisticated arguments in support of such ideas, which they then use to convince themselves and others of their victim status.
People with victim mentality may also be generally:
negative, with a general tendency to focus on bad rather than good aspects of a situation. A glass that is half full is considered half empty. A person with a high standard of living complains about not having enough money. A healthy person complains of minor health problems that others would ignore (cf. hypochondriasis).
self-absorbed: unable or reluctant to consider a situation from the point of view of other people or to “walk a mile in their shoes”.
defensive: In conversation, reading a non-existent negative intention into a neutral question and reacting with a corresponding accusation, hindering the collective solution of problems and instead creating unnecessary conflict.
categorizing: tending to divide people into “goodies” and “baddies” with no gray zone between them.
unadventurous: generally unwilling to take risks; exaggerating the importance or likelihood of possible negative outcomes.
exhibiting learned helplessness: underestimating one’s ability or influence in a given situation; feeling powerless.
stubborn: tending to reject suggestions or constructive criticism from others who listen and care; unable or reluctant to implement the suggestions of others for one’s own benefit.
self-abasing: Putting oneself down even further than others are supposedly doing.
——————————————————————————————————————-
“The culture of ‘victim mentality’ acts as a barrier to progress, and may well take another 3 – 4 generations before truly expunged. It is learned behaviour from early in life and reinforced in numerous ways, consciously and unconsciously, formally and informally.”
True – inspite of 33 years abroad and a partly Western upbringing, the culture in which I spent my formative years shaped me into that sort of mentality. I feel like somebody telling the rest of the group who has lived under the bridge or in a manhole all the while:
HEY GUYS, THERE’S SOMETHING BETTER UP THERE
and they all say hey, cut the crap, we are having a good time down here…
It has been changing already, but those without victim mentality tended to leave. Now once there are no more places to migrate to – automation will reduce OFW jobs – and not that many BPO jobs anymore, the pressure will grow enormously. No more virtual “amo” anymore for all the virtual “katulong” which is what many of my countrymen are content to be. The pressure will then rise – in whatever direction change may go then.
——————————————————————————————————————-
“The current crop of politicians demonstrate no ability, passion or understanding of what is needed, or how to achieve it, which is no real surprise since they largely exhibit ‘victim mentality’ themselves, and are a product of the culture and the vicious cycle.”
Because they have the mentality of victims or profit from the entire victim system.
Many of them are basically PIMPING out their own people, to be brutally frank about it.
@ray james
“Victim mentality does not produce winners, just whingers.”
Ray, did you mean “whiners”? 🙂
I. for one. am glad to see you post again.
(From Seoul, this time?)
Let me take the opportunity to tell you I found very informative your postings in the thread where you had posted this:
http://j.mp/ja-rj01
You seem to be the first one to mention of “Baldrige.”
I love Baldrige.
btw, regarding PIE’s blog topic, I think the Philippines can very easily become greater than America has ever been.
IMHO, all she has to do is to truly “seek the face” of the Person whose name they, up to 93% Filipinos, have appropriated:
Christ.
The *begotten* son of God.
Salamat.
i7sharp
Begotten
http://www.icr.org/home/resources/resources_tracts_godsonlybegottenson/
Baldrige – Images
https://www.google.com/search?q=Baldrige&tbm=isch
Will this work sa present mindset ng most pinoys esp those who couldn’t wait for 2016 or after pinoy’s head to roll down after his ‘i am sorry’ line.
Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
From:”The Society of Honor by Joe America” Date:Sun, Apr 5, 2015 at 5:22 AM Subject:[New post] Rising from victimhood
Joe America posted: ” By Pinoy in Europe For many centuries, Filipinos have seen themselves as victims. As part of colonial manipulation, the Spanish friars inculcated into a formerly warrior people a spirit of passivity and glorified victimhood similar to what th”
Some might think about it. Others might not.
Back to blaming. Blame the colonizers, blame the capitalists, blame the socialists,blame property owners, blame the squatters,blame the rich, blame the poor.blame the police, blame the criminals….it never ends.
Thank you for the wake-up call. Which proves how hard it is to shake the victim mentality. Even I started blaming again which is not a constructive approach.
The post below is intended as a let us count our blessings thread.
Feel free to post examples of the new spirit in the Philippines.
*******
Perceptive.
******
TY
@ray james: Thanks for posting a few possible solutions:
– take ownership, and be responsible.
– less focus on the past
– inculcate a more competitive spirit
– find/develop transformational leaders
– do not ‘promote’ a victim culture via the media/church/government
– more emphasis upon personal pride through self-achievement, not hubristic pride from the success of others
– parental upbringing – child education
– less insularity – more international. No man is an island, and no island should be paroquial.
– diversity in media content
– greater opportunity through meritocracy
– focus on success and achievements
– set high standards. Aim for excellence
– mentoring and coaching in companies
Duterte is an example for a transformational leader for what he has done in Davao. Davao was a real bad place before him – now it is very progressive.
He also encourages citizens to participate in decision-making processes, getting their input. Making them feel that their voice can matter. He is NOT the bully many think he is.
“inculcate a more competitive spirit”
Senator Bam Aquino is doing all he can to foster growth of SMEs.
“take ownership, and be responsible.”
The way Trillanes acted after Senate hearings.
“more emphasis upon personal pride through self-achievement,” Senator Cayetano embodies this, and this may be his problem in some areas.
This is seen as “mayabang” by many.
” find/develop transformational leaders” Duterte, Leni Robredo.
“less focus on the past” Duterte once more.
“parental upbringing – child education” Josephivo of course, who else.
“– diversity in media content” Joe America and many others.
“set high standards. Aim for excellence” Edgar Lores.
“greater opportunity through meritocracy” Pisay was a start..
“focus on success and achievements” U.P., Ateneo and La Salle come to mind.
What are the canons of achievement?
“– less insularity – more international. No man is an island, and no island should be paroquial.” Raissa’s blog
“mentoring and coaching in companies” Don’t know, I am not updated on this…
I reject the idea that Filipinos have disproportionate sense of victimhood. Our history belies this.
We have the Bonifacio uprising.
The revolt against American rule.
The Hukbalahap.
The Roxas-Osmena lobby for independence.
The revolt against the dictator-kleptocrat Marcos.
We have asserted ourselves. For freedom. For redemption.
In the past.
And in the present.
The results may have varying degrees of success and failures and desirability but, no, we don’t have as much sense of victimhood any more than, say, the Irish have.
Irish I agree, they like to cast themselves as victims, they love it..
Poles like to cast themselves as losers, they also have fun doing that.
But self-flagellation, self-crucifixion? Not in Mexico. Only in the Philippines…
In the manner that it does, or where it manifest in isolated cases, you can thank the Catholic church for that psychological aberration.
Pie,
It is stil a practice accirding to wikipedia
———
In other cases, a crucifixion is only simulated within a passion play, as in the ceremonial re-enactment that has been performed yearly in the town of Iztapalapa, on the outskirts of Mexico City, since 1833,[121] and in the more famous Oberammergau Passion Play. Also, since at least the mid-19th century, a group of flagellants in New Mexico, called Hermanos de Luz (“Brothers of Light”), have annually conducted reenactments of Christ’s crucifixion during Holy Week, in which a penitent is tied—but not nailed—to a cross.[citation needed]
At least they don’t nail them to the cross, just tie. But good to know thanks.
We have the Bonifacio uprising, smothered by Aguinaldo.
The revolt against American rule, still going on.
The Hukbalahap, via NPA still going on.
The Roxas-Osmena lobby for independence, see American rule
The revolt against the dictator-kleptocrat Marcos, Marcoses still in office, stolen money still in their hands. Right hand Enrile, left hand Ramos…
The present: Spratly? Bangsamoro? Poverty? 12 million OFW?
Ordinary people would feel victimized for just only one of the above.
“Ordinary people would feel victimized for just only one of the above.”
Exactly.
The perils of generalization.
The Ayalas, the Sorianos, the Gokongweis, the Cojuangcos, and a host of other Espiritu Santos most likely do not have the sense of victimhood anymore.
It’s the common folks who have to go through the purgatory every single time.
About purgatory.
Presuming there is a purgatory and some are already there.
How can they go to heaven?
Maybe there is an elevator there.
Modernized na siguro. Noong panahon ni Dante Alighieri wala pa. Just the mountain with the penance for the seven deadly sins – lust being the least bad of all, greed the worst.
After the mountain, the river where you wash in forgetfulness. Then heaven’s gates.
The one percenters have this to say.Ganyan kayong mga pulubi,inaapi ninyo kaming mayayaman. Istrayk na naman? langyang Lina Law yan grrr di ko tuloy mapaalis tong mga skwater. CARPER at NALUA tawagan natin mga amigo at amiga sa kongreso,inaafi na tayo paano ang mga masterplan development natin, madami pa naman gusto ng mall,resort,atiba pa. Masyado na sobra na me revolutionary tax pa. Haay.
Ethics of impunity.
We have asserted ourselves. For freedom. For redemption.
========
And we always lose. Painful and harsh reality which PinoyInEurope maybe referring to when he said, “For many centuries, Filipinos have seen themselves as victims.”
Yes – palaging urong-sulong. Just look at what Quezon and Magsaysay achieved, posted it in the Nacionalista article. Some is left but much has dissipated…
I think we lose because we are such a fragmented people. One class (usually the upper class) caters to the invader, while the other class (usually the masa) revolts against the invaders, or sometimes the other way around. If we only have the unity of Japan, then we will be better off.
Yes. This is why I am still distrustful of Noynoy, Mar and the LP. OK OFWs and BPO have brought in money, but mostly for the ruling class they represent. Those that have the 60% Filipino share in every foreign company that comes in. Rent-seekers.
No long-term industrial development except foreign car plants. At least there are now networks that want to do more. But the problem may be that the ruling political class tells us hey we don’t need you, we already have American firms that do that – their partners.
Being petty here,but when FORD left,the Japs took over. Part one late seventies. Part 2 a few years ago.
I think we lose because we are such a fragmented people. One class (usually the upper class) caters to the invader, while the other class (usually the masa) revolts against the invaders….. – BFD
========
Unfortunately, that has some truth to it. Like the separate and fragmented islands, we tend to go on our own separate ways in accordance with tribal or regional affiliation.
That’s the negative side of it, our fragmentation as a people in relation to the invaders. But on the other hand, this makes us not go the way of Japan of old…. bringing misery and destruction to it’s neighbors.
These are the closest sentiments a secular world can express what a Christian feels if he is given the gift of faith.
Or the secular can have this :
The objective is to have both. Not “either … or …”
Why still cling to a dubious faith system when secular explanation can be clear and satisfying for both the soul and the intellect?
They’re both clear enough to me, Micha.
Why still cling to a dubious faith system when secular explanation can be clear and satisfying for both the soul and the intellect?
========
Well, that’s their thing and you should respect it if you want your thing to be respected too.
I mean, I’m aware of the Richard Dawkins, the Chris Hitchens, the Dan Harrisses, etc. but I don’t get out and wear what I learned from people like them as a badge to bully those whose idea of worship I don’t agree with.
To each his own. I only bring my viewpoint on religion forward if challenged and attacked for what I believe in or not. That should be the attitude. 🙂
(cont’d)
http://www.catholicculture.org/culture/library/view.cfm?recnum=8847
Christianity went one step further – it is the story of a son finding a new vision to build upon that of his father, finding strength, maturity and independence. It is a success story.
========
I’m not sure if dying on the cross and questioning the intent of his father can be called a ‘success’ story. To die slowly by crucifixion after so much derision and humiliation would only be a ‘success’ to those with masochistic personality. But that is how the Catholic faith presents itself. It is a faith of sacrifice, courage, grace and understanding. The faithful understand that theirs is one of continued struggle and endless contrition towards a life worthy of salvation.
The message of Christ’s death is not about rising from victimhood, for he already rose from it for us, but to celebrate as victors for being saved by Him.
Christianity, like all religions, have the exclusive patent for being a victim and a victor. You cannot have one without the other because your being defends on both. The glory of being with Almighty is not just to follow the lessons of the strictures and be good to everyone but to overcome the difficulties and challenges by resisting temptations and sinful ideas by vanquishing the forces of evil.
From victim to victor, that’s success. Then we repeat the process. 🙂
Saved from what?
If your’re not a Catholic that’s a question the answer of which can be found almost everywhere. If you are one, I’ll gladly provide you the answer just promise to do ten Hail Marys afterwards. Deal? 🙂
Nope, born a Catholic and grew up heretic.
But really, to spare us the trouble of semantic confusion, saved from what?
Are you kidding me? Of course, as a Catholic, you know what being ‘saved’ is. And obviously it’s one of the reasons you became a heretic. Now you are asking me something you knew since birth which you don’t believe now? Don’t tell me heretics like you have contracted a disease common in all religions called hypocrisy? 🙂
Kidding aside, I sense that you want to engage me and expect that I’ll explain and defend religion to you. Not gonna happen. I suggest you engage the writer of this article for he brought up the religion aspect on a political issue.
Is it Austin 3:16
What is Austin 3:16, Karl?
WWE stuff
“Austin 3:16 (1996–1997)Edit
Austin’s rise to stardom began at the 1996 King of the Ring. He began using his trademark finishing maneuver, the Stone Cold Stunner; with this new technique, he won the King of the Ring tournament.[4] After defeating Marc Mero in the semi-finals, Austin defeated Jake “The Snake” Roberts in the finals.[4][37] At the time, Roberts was portraying a born-again Christian, so after the match, Austin cut a now famous promo during his coronation, telling Roberts,[38] “You sit there and you thump your Bible, and you say your prayers, and it didn’t get you anywhere! Talk about your Psalms, talk about John 3:16… AUSTIN 3:16 says I just whipped your ass!”. “Austin 3:16” ultimately became one of the most popular catchphrases in wrestling history,[4] and subsequently the slogan became one of the best-selling T-shirts in WWE merchandise history. It is also credited as the iconic moment that began the WWF’s “Attitude Era”, along with the Montreal Screwjob.””
Now that, and edgar’s kayfabe, made my day. 🙂
🙂
Austin 3:16 equals “I just whipped your ass”. Got it. Thanks, Karl.
Now, “whose ass got whipped by whom?” Sorry, Karl, dense itong nagtatanong. 🙂
As your designated subject matter expert(joke lang ha)….. Jake Roberts by Steve Austin.
You two naughty boys, stop making sabong already.
Bert,
Naniniwala akong for all the knowledge Sonny posseses, he still has room for questions, We agreed that nothing is a stupid question. Di nya talaga alam dahil wala syang hilig.I can ask him mathematical,chemical, it,humanities,latin,greek,ilocano, catholic faith, when the opportunity presents itself.
Cheers ! 🙂
Ay, naku, mali. Karl, akala ko iba ang pinag uusapan ninyo ni Sonny. Si Jake ‘The Snake’ Roberts pala. Sorry.
Ok lang, Bert. 🙂
The erosion of (a nation’s) progress by religion.
America was built on Christianity.
http://www.icr.org/article/americas-founding-fathers-creationism/
http://www.wallbuilders.com/libissuesarticles.asp?id=8755
i7sharp
@i7sharp
I presume you are aware what the Institute for Creation Research does, no?
@Micha
“I presume you are aware what the Institute for Creation Research does, no?”
Yes, I am.
In some people’s eyes the people there are “f… *@&#^ creationists!.”
Here’s a couple of example of articles from them:
1 http://www.icr.org/article/bible-believing-scientists-past/
2 http://www.icr.org/article/ever-changing-big-bang-story/
Let us cut to the chase:
At what point in their evolution did believers in the Theory of Evolution become able …
to think,
to believe,
to love?
Salamat.
“”Let us cut to the chase:
At what point in their evolution did believers in the Theory of Evolution become able …
to think,
to believe,
to love?””
Easy. Romeo and Juliet invented love and they’re not monkeys thus love probably started to manifest in the evolution process during the transformation period from monkey to human. As to thinking and believing, I don’t know. Perhaps the creationists can find the answer in the Wikipedia by looking at the development of the human fetus instead of the more imponderable way of the Theory of Evolution.
Only the frog that got out of the well, who had seen the real world who can change his old perceptions and ways.
Only the Filipinos that got out of the Philippines, who had seen the real world can change his old perception and ways.
The Philippines government needs the Overseas Filipinos (OF) to change the old ways.
This is why I am writing here. Going home and trying to change things? You get into a lot of trouble because most people do not understand. OK I have a few Facebook friends who were abroad and have come back, they get things, and are in the middle of adjusting again to a place that does not get them. Or also a few who were not away too long, so they are able to talk to the people back home in the language they understand – it’s never easy.
PIE, Your articles and perceptions are excellent as clear eye opener for the Filipino kababayan. The Philippines needs many good analyst like you to change the old systems. I agree it is not easy. I wonder how the Philippines can ever have a pragmatic leader president who can use the hundreds of OF engineers, IT technocrats and analyst, nationalist,
Yes, it’s easier said than doing. I, completely agree, it’s never easy.
The only thing writers like me can “do” is hope that some people back home – even some of the broader-minded among decision-makers, read what we write and think about it. Even better act on it based on local circumstances. Nothing more and nothing less…
i7sharp
No, whinger – very similar to whiner
Have implemented Baldrige and its European counterpart EFQM ( European Foundation Quality Model), and ISO series, a number of times as part of major Transformation and TQM projects. And it is not just for corporates – Singapore uses a hybrid model to develop employee skills and measure/audit govt departments.
More emphasis nowadays on Lean & Six Sigma under the umbrella of CSR strategies (Corporate & Social Responsibility), with a big push on Diversity & Inclusion (D&I), and building high performance teams. (Belbin resurrected)
The key point is to have structure, discipline and standards, and ultimately achieve continuous improvement through empowerment, and measurement. Something the Philippine government, and country, would undoubtedly benefit from.
Big Data and Analytics is a big opportunity to make government transparent and accountable. More visibility = less corruption. More systems = less inefficiency. (Manual payroll in Makati!!. – reason enough not to elect a technology luddite who avoids audit trails like Lito Lapid avoids work)
Am currently developing a range of macro models and solutions
STEPS to SUCCESS
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An integrated approach to drive change, empower people, enable opportunity, develop business, and reduce inequality.
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@ray james
“No, whinger – very similar to whiner.”
I was so sure you had done a typo and meant “whiner” that I did not even bother to check the dictionary. 😦
Or Anu Garg’s wordsmith.org
https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Awordsmith.org+whinger
I wish we could have neat websites in the Philippines like his.
I believe the guy was born in India.
Tks
off topic
To Joeam notes from the editor: To live, to die, to find riches in between. Well, sometimes the pain seems rather overdone, and thus we have the richest question of them all. “Why?”
An attempt to answer:
Statistics? Survival of the fittest? A combination?
Nature is not good in repeating itself flawlessly. All random creations have random variation. One single type of German shepherd does not exist, some are more black, some more brown, some more aggressive, some more social. Average properties with variation. Sometimes the extremes or a cocktail of extremes can be extreme painful.
Survival of the fittest. All these creatures with all these variations fight with each other to mate and survive, this fights can be painful, especially for a social animal with a tiny coating of civilization called man.
But don’t despair, the tiny coating of civilization gets thicker molecule by molecule. Ever more, don’t despair, our robots have less variation and no urge to mate, they are improving fast. Don’t despair, our understanding of the brain and our ability to interfere is improving fast, emotional aspirin is just around the corner.
Well, I agree, but rather see that our survival of the fittest is getting more elegant. Still, right now, cockroaches still have the edge.
They have been around longer than people after all, just like viruses.
It was fun to watch the debate on religion, but that was not my point. It was about overcoming victimhood and Dionysian passions to have more control of things.
If you are religious, you can choose which aspect of religion you want to emphasize. Better to emphasize Rising from Victimhood than emphasize self-flagellation and self-crucifixion.
If you are Muslim, better see Jihad in its original meaning similar to “panata” – a religious promise, an effort, not necessarily war. So rebuilding the broken lands of Bangsamoro can also be a Jihad.
If one looks at the history of beliefs, you will find a succession of progressively more advanced mental models, building up on one another. Also the Hegelian thesis, antithesis and synthesis that has always been in the history of mankind.
Lutheran Protestantism had its antithesis in the Counter-Reformation and the Jesuits, who applied modern scientific logic in a Catholic way. The Age of Reason tried to do away with religion altogether, forgetting sometime the compassion and humanity inherent in belief.
Knowledge is important, but so is feeling for the people – I await Joe’s Thursday blog. Modern management understands that not only IQ is important but also one’s EQ. Emotional and practical intelligence is just as important for success as theory is.
The Islamic world is in the middle of a process as well, coming out of the Middle Ages into modernity. Terrorists use Apollonian methods to reach Dionysian goals.
The goal should be to use Apollonian methods to have Dionysian phases unharmed. The Oktoberfest, just five minutes away from where I sit, is an example. Fun and passion, party and punches, breasts and beer. But quietly sitting at its edge is a black, unassuming bunker. It holds the Munich City Event Management Office which is there all year. In the three stories it goes into the ground, there is space for police, medics and communication during the Oktoberfest, the Spring Festival and the Winter Festival. Its outer wall is steel.
And their is civilization, the channeling of passions inspite of all the hormones and beer that flow during the world’s largest festival, with an estimate turnover one billion Euro – more or less the Philippine’s entire defense budget just in two weeks time.
A Turkish friend, an engineer who is one of the heads of the Alevi Muslim church here – a moderate and modern version of Islam – and a nationalist, a true follower of Atatürk, told me once “brother, I am amazed how civilized they are here. Imagine thousands of us Turks in a tent, different clans, alcohol and then provocatively dressed women all over the place. We would be killing each other within an hour”. This said by a proud nationalist, privately.
In case civilization does fail, and it does with some individuals – I am not talking about the American fratboys and the Aussie boozers who come over and spend a lot of money, not only in the tents but often also in the stripclubs that happily prepare to fleece them drunk, there is organization to stop them. Every security guard and tent bouncer has to have a police clearance to prevent abuses. Someone I knew, a former German special forces soldier with a problem who threw someone off a balcony, no longer may work there now.
No parking zones, no drive zones layered around the Theresienwiese, bollards to stop possible terrorist attacks that come out of the ground, tunnels for water, electricity, internet and mobile masts that are set up to handle the huge amount of mobile phones, police on extra shifts all over the city in uniform and in plain clothes, a logistics equivalent to the Pope’s Manila visit every year. The city clinic is just 5 minutes away for all eventualities. Spaces for helicopters to land just in case they are needed for security or medicals.
In and around, Dionysian fun. Hectoliters of beer from tanks underground. Dozens of oxes that are killed and eaten, the ox currently being grilled has its name written on the wall. Thousand of chickens and pigs. Drunks recovering on the hill just above. American and Aussie chicks throwing their panties up to the beer drinking angel Aloysius. American fratboys punching Italian tourists. Security stopping them. Medics coming. Fun continues.
Germany is a well-established, stable and quite homogeneous society. E.g. engineers with a master level discuss with engineers with a master level, they teach or instruct engineers with a bachelor level and they search for advice from engineers with a doctor level, everybody has its place in society, formal education level being very important. Same here but not so clear cut because of many more variables, age, skin color, family decent, wealth, province…
Germans have a very elaborate escalation policy in conflict situations, from choice of words over a louder voice, light physical contact, punching, up to full fighting. A lot of opportunities to show your anger and to read the opponent and eventually quit. Here people keep smiling until they explode.
Thanks josephivo for elaborating – in fact I myself had to learn the escalation policy from being a Pinoy who kept in his anger too long before exploding and surprising everyone.
What I have learned from Bavarians who are among the most temperamental Germans is also their ways of deescalating. I remember how I was about to go after five Portuguese with something dangerous in my hands, after throwing everything on the counter down.
It was about the girl I was with that they were trying to grab. A two meter white haired man known as the “Ranger” stopped me on the way out of the bar, the other men had been sent outside by our friend. He told me in a loud voice “look at me” several times. At some point I looked at him, then he told me, pointing at my chair “go there and sit down”. I went there and the other man sent the Portuguese away, then told me next time you pay the glasses, ashtrays and bottles that you just broke. That is true civilization and control.
“Germany is a well-established, stable and quite homogeneous society. E.g. engineers with a master level discuss with engineers with a master level, they teach or instruct engineers with a bachelor level and they search for advice from engineers with a doctor level, everybody has its place in society, formal education level being very important. ”
Yes, it , not completely but very much supersedes where you come from. Thus I as a Pinoy (inspite of my being half-German, yes I am, I am still a foreigner for many) with the title Diplom-Informatiker (Masters in Computer Science) I am respected as a professional. To be a CEO like my brother is, you have to be a Herr Doktor which he is. Because education up to college is mostly free, it is not totally a meritocracy but very much so.
“Same here but not so clear cut because of many more variables, age, skin color, family decent, wealth, province… ”
There are some aspects of that in Germany as well, especially in more traditional places like Bavaria. In the years here, I have learned to speak their dialect, at least Munich style, not the rural style which is nearly impossible for foreigners to learn in a lifetime. It helps.
Don’t wear any lederhosen though, that is something for American tourists or true natives. And here the circles of those who really run things are, like in ANY worldwide rural culture, run by certain established family clans. Also an oligarchy in some ways, but modern enough to understand that allowing competition makes for more business and that you have to keep up with the times and compete as well so that things do not totally stagnate. Anyway it is a nice place to be, my Pinoy instincts can deal with those aspects very well.
As for Turks, beware those that smile like Iqbal – there are some who look almost like him. Better those who are serious and speak loud, they are predictable. Those who smile can pull out a knife when you are not watching…
If you are religious, you can choose which aspect of religion you want to emphasize.
========
To the contrary, if you are ‘religious’ you don’t only have no choice you are also commanded to strictly accede and assent to all it imposes on you as a faithful. That’s why followers fasts to renew their dedication and commitment to their God. That is the reason we continue to witness self-flagellation and self-crucifixion as a form of religious discipline. That is why we are witness jihad, a holy war, against infidels undertaken by Muslims in defense of the Islamic faith.
Panata and jihad are apples and oranges. Panata promises to build and develop, jihad threatens to kill and destroy. Panata is an offering of sacrifice for the fulfillment of religious or spiritual undertaking, jihad is an undertaking to fulfill an aberration to sacrifice infidels for the satisfaction of an inner struggles. Panata is to heed and kneel, jihad is to advance and kill.
And I tell you, there is no ‘fun’ in both. 🙂
Not really true, or do you see believers crucifying or flagellating themselves in today’s Spain or Italy. My point being, interpretations of the faith can vary:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jihad
Jihad (English pronunciation: /dʒɪˈhɑːd/; Arabic: جهاد ǧihād [dʒiˈhæːd]) is an Islamic term referring to a religious duty of Muslims. In Arabic, the word jihād is a noun meaning “struggle” or “resisting”. A person engaged in jihad is called a mujahid, the plural of which is mujahideen. The word jihad appears frequently in the Quran,[1][2] often in the idiomatic expression “striving in the way of God (al-jihad fi sabil Allah)”.[3][4][5]
Muslims and scholars do not all agree on its definition. Within the context of the classical Islamic law, it refers to struggle against those who do not believe in the Islamic God (Allah) and do not acknowledge the submission to Muslims,[6] and so is often translated as “Holy War”,[7][8][9] although this term is controversial.[10] According to the Dictionary of Islam[3] and Islamic historian Bernard Lewis, in the large majority of cases jihad has a military meaning.[11] Javed Ghamidi states that there is consensus amongst Islamic scholars that the concept of jihad will always include armed struggle against wrong doers.[12] It was generally supposed that the order for a general war could only be given by the Caliph (an office that was claimed by the Ottoman sultans), but Muslims who did not acknowledge the spiritual authority of the Caliphate (which has been vacant since 1923)—such as non-Sunnis and non-Ottoman Muslim states—always looked to their own rulers for the proclamation of a jihad. There has been in fact no universal warfare by Muslims on non-believers since the early caliphate. Some proclaimed Jihad by claiming themselves as mahdi, e.g. the Sudanese Mahommed Ahmad in 1882.[13]
Others have given the word wider definitions. Many observers—both Muslim[14] and non-Muslim[15]—talk of jihad having two meanings: an inner spiritual struggle—the “greater jihad”; and an outer physical struggle against the enemies of Islam—the “lesser jihad”[3][16]—which may take a violent or non-violent form.[17]
more from the same source:
Other spiritual, social, economic struggles
Muslim scholar Mahmoud Ayoub states that “The goal of true jihad is to attain a harmony between islam (submission), iman (faith), and ihsan (righteous living).”[113]
In modern times, Pakistani scholar and professor Fazlur Rahman Malik has used the term to describe the struggle to establish “just moral-social order”,[114] while President Habib Bourguiba of Tunisia has used it to describe the struggle for economic development in that country.[115]
According to the BBC, a third meaning of jihad is the struggle to build a good society.[16] In a commentary of the hadith Sahih Muslim, entitled al-Minhaj, the medieval Islamic scholar Yahya ibn Sharaf al-Nawawi stated that “one of the collective duties of the community as a whole (fard kifaya) is to lodge a valid protest, to solve problems of religion, to have knowledge of Divine Law, to command what is right and forbid wrong conduct”.[116]
Majid Khadduri lists four kinds of jihad fi sabilillah (struggle in the cause of God):[117]
Jihad of the heart (jihad bil qalb/nafs) is concerned with combatting the devil and in the attempt to escape his persuasion to evil. This type of Jihad was regarded as the greater jihad (al-jihad al-akbar).
Jihad by the tongue (jihad bil lisan) (also Jihad by the word, jihad al-qalam) is concerned with speaking the truth and spreading the word of Islam with one’s tongue.
Jihad by the hand (jihad bil yad) refers to choosing to do what is right and to combat injustice and what is wrong with action.
Jihad by the sword (jihad bis saif) refers to qital fi sabilillah (armed fighting in the way of God, or holy war), the most common usage by Salafi Muslims and offshoots of the Muslim Brotherhood.[117]
Scholar Natana J. Delong-Bas lists a number of types of “jihad” that have been proposed by Muslims
educational jihad (jihad al-tarbiyyah);
missionary jihad or calling the people to Islam (jihad al-da’wah)[118]
Other “types” mentioned include
“Intellectual” Jihad (very similar to missionary jihad).[119]
“Economic” Jihad (good doing involving money such as spending within one’s means, helping the “poor and the downtrodden”)[119] (President Habib Bourguiba of Tunisia, used jihad to describe the struggle for economic development in Tunisia.[105])
Jihad Al-Nikah, or sexual jihad, “refers to women joining the jihad by offering sex to fighters to boost their morale”. (According to Malaysian intelligence officials quoted by the Strait Times, as of August 2014, three Malaysian women and an unknown number of British women are believed to have traveled to Syria and “to have offered themselves in sexual comfort roles to ISIS fighters who are attempting to establish Islamic rule in the Middle East.[120]
Thanks to my German-Moroccan ex. We did all the nice haram things at night, and she read me the Koran before breakfast.
Did not manage to convert me though.
Just like Taqqiya is often misinterpreted to mean that a Muslim can lie at all times to non-believers, that is only the radical interpretation: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taqiya
n Shi’a Islam, taqiya (تقیة taqiyyah/taqīyah) is a form of religious dissimulation,[1] or a legal dispensation whereby a believing individual can deny his faith or commit otherwise illegal or blasphemous acts, specially while they are in fear or at risk of significant persecution.[2] A similar concept in Sunni Islam is known as idtirar (إضطرار) “coercion”. A related concept is known as kitman “concealment; dissimulation by omission”. Also related is the concept of ḥiyal, legalistic deception practiced not necessarily in a religious context but to gain political or legalistic advantage.
This practice was emphasized in Shi’a Islam whereby adherents may conceal their religion when they are under threat, persecution, or compulsion.[3] Taqiyya was developed to protect Shi’ites who were usually in minority and under pressure, and Shi’a Muslims as the persecuted minority have taken recourse to dissimulation from the time of the mihna (persecution) under Al-Ma’mun in the 9th century, while the politically dominant Sunnites rarely found it necessary to resort to dissimulation.[4]
In Sunni jurisprudence, denying faith under duress or other permissible reasons as per Islamic law is viewed “only at most permitted and not under all circumstances obligatory”.[5] However, there are many examples of practicing taqiyya among Sunnis where it was necessary.[4]
In the Shi’a view, taqiyya is lawful in situations where there is overwhelming danger of loss of life or property and where no danger to religion would occur thereby.[1] Taqiyya has also been legitimised, particularly among Twelver Shia, in order to maintain Muslim unity and fraternity.[6][7]
Not really true, or do you see believers crucifying or flagellating themselves in today’s Spain or Italy.
========
Well, not all Buddhists commit self-immolation wherever they may be. Not all Muslims commit jihad in all the countries they reside. They don’t do crucifixion in Spain like the Indios do at home. I get what you say. What I don’t subscribe to is the idea that if one is religious he has the option or even a choice to cherry pick what to emphasize. The more religious one is, the less option you have.
With regard to jihad, it’s all about quibbling on semantics. Have you seen a building erected through jihad? Have you seen lives saved because of jihad? In regular basis ha? 🙂 It’s like the thing we have about somebody slapping you in the face and offering the other cheek, too. Nice line but you know you don’t actually do it. Or the pick up line we so love dearly, love your enemies. Really?
I say, there’s reality and there’s hypocrisy. On that, you can cherry pick. 🙂
“What I don’t subscribe to is the idea that if one is religious he has the option or even a choice to cherry pick what to emphasize.” Every flavor of religion has different emphasis. For Lutherans, Good Friday is the most important day. For Orthodox, it is Easter.
“The more religious one is, the less option you have.” True. If you go fully religious in any religion you come close to fundamentalism. Bible Belt Americans or Saudis doesn’t matter.
—————————————————————————————————–
“Have you seen a building erected through jihad? Have you seen lives saved because of jihad?” An example from the Wikipedia source:
“Economic” Jihad (good doing involving money such as spending within one’s means, helping the “poor and the downtrodden”)[119] (President Habib Bourguiba of Tunisia, used jihad to describe the struggle for economic development in Tunisia.[105])
“In regular basis ha?” True, Islam in its present interpretation is where Christianity was during the Crusades. They still have a long way to go…
—————————————————————————————————–
“It’s like the thing we have about somebody slapping you in the face and offering the other cheek, too.” I once saw a Turkish gangster boss slapped by a Ukrainian gold-digger.
Jesus is considered a prophet in Islam – Isa is what they call him. So they know about turning the other cheek. I liked his take on it though:
I will turn the other cheek to you, since I am a religious man. But if you slap me on that cheek, I will kill you right here. An interpretation that fits Muslim ways. 🙂
Today publication of Pew Research Center: Islam the fastest growing religion
Christianity constant from 31.4% today to 31.4% in 2050
Islam from 23.2% to 29.7%
Hindus from 15% to 14.9%
Non-believers from 16.4% to 13.2%
Buddhists from 7.1% to 5.2%
Traditional religions from 5.9% to 4.8%
Jews from 0.2% to 0.2%
Others from 0.8 to 0.7
It is because we have a time of rapid change and disorientation. Simple-minded people then seek simple truths via organized religion. Islam gives that orientation to many – but within Christianity, it is the born-again version that is growing for example in Latin America.
My old analogy in your globalization thread – we are within a modern-day Roman Empire run by America. The Roman Empire also was threatened by an Oriental sect – Christianity.
Strongly Romanized by Paul and Constantine, it became finally Roman Catholicism.
The main factor seams to be children. The Muslim population is younger 34% under 15 versus 27% for Christians and 19% for non-believers. Secondly, larger families 3.1 children per women versus 2.5 on average for the rest – status of women is lower in Islam.
There are people who believe and there are people who know. Especially in religion I mistrust the people who know. More often than not they have extreme views as jihad, as if just believing is not enough. Knowing the supernatural is not for us mortals. Believing is what makes life livable as long as it is not in flagrant contradiction with what I can observe.
My point is that you have to find your own interpretation from belief, your own way. Just like Jesus found his own way to build upon the works of his father.
The Islamic equivalent would be this scene of the French movie A Prophet from 2009, a Franco-Arabic equivalent to Scarface:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1235166/
The last scene in which the ghost of the first man he murdered appears to him, a friendly ghost that taught him much. I translate from memory: “Recite, just as Mohammed created the Koran from nothing, recite. Wondrous, beloved brother.” Meaning: you’re on your own..
My point is that you have to find your own interpretation from belief, your own way. Just like Jesus found his own way to build upon the works of his father.
========
Pinoy, your point is dangerous. One don’t interpret one’s belief. Somebody will interpret it to you and you follow. That is why you are called a follower. Not everyone is a Jesus. That is why those who crucified themselves to the cross today never get to rise later because, unlike the original, they live and sin again.
There is Jesus. There is the Roman Saul who turned to Paul and totally interpreted Christianity for it to become the basis of Roman Catholicism. There are religious scholars.
In the end, it is a choice everyone makes for himself. True, my interpretations would have been considered heresy in the Middle Ages.
And yes, it is dangerous. Even as an activist, I dared interpret the “prophet” Lenin myself, not be a follower. I follow only my conscience.
I BELIEVE only in God as “plus ultra”, as Teilhard de Chardin called him. As a universal principle, as a balancing force in the universe. As in math, you need to have axioms.
The other stories that religions tell – even my home religion Catholicism – are for me pre-rational metaphors that only provide a vehicle to more rational understanding and true knowledge. As such they are not wrong. Remember the blind men and the elephant.
PIE,
Reading through comments (#117101, #117102) I felt prompted to google for “simplilicity in Christ”.
Among the first dozen or so results, there was one I came upon one – dated 12/01/2001 – which, after I had spent a minute or two in it, made me feel could prove to be a serendipitous find:
https://simplicityinchrist.wordpress.com/
The article started thus:
x-
In the classes, programs, and curricula that exist in most churches today, we would be hard-pressed to find the ‘Simplicity in Christ’ that God expects us to adhere to. Instead, we find that repentance, sin, and separation from the world are not anywhere near most churches’ agendas of neighborly, kind, and inoffensive babble.
The whole Gospel of Jesus Christ must be preached – the love of God and the wrath of God. On this website are articles, information, teachings, and videos which encourage you to stay on the narrow path and avoid the behind-the-scenes layers and trappings of the so-called ‘visions from the Holy Spirit’ that are nothing more than man-made wisdom.
-x
“… the simplicity that is in Christ.”
http://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/2-Corinthians-11-3/
i7sharp
“Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication.” – da Vinci
“Simplicity is its own artistry.” – Starbucks ad
A most eloquent exposition on the follies of religion:
@Micha
x-
George Carlin – Religion is Bullshit.
-x
Carlin knew better?
The Founding Fathers, George Washington, Abraham Lincoln, Newton, Pascal, Dr. Rizal, … – to name a few – did not?
@i7sharp
There’s a general trend of thought characteristic of a particular period of time (zietgeist). It would be an interesting exercise in speculation how these fine and admirable gentlemen would profess belief if they were alive today.
We are the product of victim hood? Perhaps to some extent, but that does not explain the imbedded culture of corruption in our country that has eroded our economic foundation and kept us a third world country. The United Nations has the Philippines listed as the most corrupt democracy in the world, and we will probably elect as president one of the most corrupt politicians in our history. So much for following the straight path that PNoy implemented so well, bringing many world class companies to invest here for the first time.
For the corrupt, just listen to Binay. He feels victimized as in. “It’s all political”, the others are worse, I am VP so I am entitled to lie.
All others feel victimized because somebody took their money and they can’t complain. “It’s all politics” and I’m just a little fish.
We can only go keyboard warrior as far our beliefs or non beliefs, because we are not extremists, not even fundamentalists.Carry on folks.
For all that have been said here both tangent to and spot-on and against Christianity and Catholicism, I am wondering why everybody is not going Catholic. Not being facetious, seriously.
“And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.” — Jesus in John 12:32
Me weak conviction, baptised a catholic after 18 years,baptised a christian.Backslide is the common denominator. Exposed in blogs been friends with aetheists..Now I am back as a catholic still finding God. The search goes on.
Karl, the search never stops. The sweet paradox is, He finds us – no matter the path. 🙂
Who would you prefer as a friend? Someone doing the right things with the wrong belief or someone doing the wrong things with the right belief? For me actions speak more than words. I rather have a good, caring atheist as a friend than a (acting) pedophile or corrupt bishop.
My beliefs are just that, my beliefs. On natural things I try to keep them aligned with the facts as I perceive them or as trusted scientist perceived them. If we differ I might try to explain my beliefs showing the facts and the contradictions. On supernatural things I’ll talk, but only to good friends, if I observe that his supernatural beliefs are harmful for himself or others.
Anybody good can be my friend, if i saw a pedophile priest, I will not go to his mass and try to tell thers about him, what hapens next is up to them.Same with SUV mitsubishops. Any belief or non belief I can respect.No harm, no foul
*******
Ideologies — particularly supernatural beliefs — are the major cause of harm. So it should be discussed openly. We discuss culture. We discuss politics. We discuss sex. We have discussed the Pope’s visit and Mamasapano, which basically arises out of a religious conflict. Why is religion the last taboo?
*****
Because you can’t discuss in a reasonable way something that is not reasonable. We can try to shout louder or funnier but reasonable arguments are futile to proof that something unreasonable behaves the way it does. When the consequence of beliefs are harmful we should fight back by exposing the harm done, when the consequences are helpful we should acknowledge.
Religion or the supernatural is often used as just an instrument, an indicator of group identity more than the experience of the supernatural. If you want to raid your neighbor you better have a strong binding force in your team. Religion as the ideal glue.
*******
“Because you can’t discuss in a reasonable way something that is not reasonable.”
That line sounds good but, of course, it is fallacious reasoning.
The pathology of religion is the same as any psychiatric pathology, and it should be subject to analysis and discussion. In the same way that we dissect the pathological excesses in culture, in politics, in sex and any field of human activity and endeavor.
In general, religion is the bedrock of our consciousness. It answers the whys and wherefores of existence. If these beliefs are not examined rationally, then they may adversely affect human behavior… and affect you and me.
As they do. Just look at Mindanao. Just look at parts of Africa. Just look at the Middle East.
Nothing should be exempt from discussion, especially something that affects us to such a great degree.
We must focus the light of reason on any dark corner… or in every dark corner.
*****
@edgar
“Nothing should be exempt from discussion, especially something that affects us to such a great degree.”
The Bible invites or encourages inquiry.
1. Jesus has said, “Search the scriptures … they are they which testify of me.” John 5:39
2. The Bereans were “more noble” (than the Thessalonians) in that “they searched the scriptures daily.” Acts 17:11
3. “… the honour of kings is to search out a matter.” Proverbs 25:2
(To see more on these three verses, please click on the links to them at
http://j.mp/i7weeks )
Question:
Do we know exactly *where* or *which* the scriptures are?
Perhaps, the Authorized Version – aka King James Version aka King James Bible?
http://j.mp/rp-kjv
i7sharp
ps “RP” until a few years ago was the official two-letter code for the Philippines.
It had been “PI” … and is now “PH.” Tama ba?
*******
i7sharp,
Thanks.
I know we differ in beliefs, orientation and basic outlook, but it is good to know there is a commonality somewhere.
o Personally, I have always favored the KJV for its poetic language.
o I believe PH is correct as the Internet Country Code.
*****
When the consequence of beliefs are harmful we should fight back by exposing the harm done, when the consequences are helpful we should acknowledge.
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In short, let’s exercise fairness, transparency and equality when it comes to belief. I’m with you on that. We can always acknowledge the knowledge and history of beliefs and its contribution to civilization and that would mean the inclusion of everything what a belief is and its influence to mankind. Warts and all. And that’s the thing, all beliefs have harmful consequences that ignoring it is simply impossible.
So we prepare for discussion. 🙂
It is talked about generously in this forum, I think. The trick is how to go from now to better, because a law to outlaw supernatural beliefs won’t work.
Maybe this is the reason.
https://joeam.com/2015/04/09/in-defense-of-knowledge-philippine-victimhood-the-sequel/
Who would you prefer as a friend? Someone doing the right things with the wrong belief or someone doing the wrong things with the right belief?
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I prefer someone who do the right thing. Nobody will befriend somebody who do wrong things whatever his/her belief was.
The virtue of religion is the virtue of justice, rendering God his due and reflected to man rendering other men’s due. For those who cross the threshold into Christianity, the search for religion is the search for the God-Man, Jesus Christ, exclusively. He chose to leave instructions and a Church & Vicar to speak to every man’s heart and mind. The vitiating of this relationship is totally not his plan but his will must prevail. If the scandals of pedophile priests and SUV mitsubishops impinge on God’s people then the counterbalance is also to take to heart the acts of the saints and the just. This too is religion and justice.
The Roman Catholics as one, holy, apostolic (with a mission), and catholic (universal) church, nothing harmful in that. Christians have done and do amazing good things for society indeed. Christianity with a religious core, a meaning of live but also as a set of ethical values and cultural aspects, sometimes a way of organizing or controlling society. Disagreeing with one of those aspects does not mean disagreeing with all.
For me a problem arises when religious supernatural beliefs contradict natural beliefs as our understanding of nature keeps growing, the flat world, the age or center on the universe, live and conception… Problems when ethical values are based only on dogmatic stands and do no more reflect current realities as the world keeps changing (slavery, position of women, sexual practices, reproductive choices… ) Problems when the missionary zeal uses force or coercion.
In all honesty, I prefer a religion or anything that will link me to God and establish relationship in a direct manner. I need no middleman to connect me to my maker. He made me so why will a third person come between us for interpretation, explanation or what have you?
@jameboy
“… link me to God and establish relationship in a direct manner….”
Contact with God is …
instant
and
toll-free
Better than that,actually.
God knows *already* even before you could tell him:
“… your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him.”
Matthew 6:8
https://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Mat&c=6&t=KJV#s=935008
In the quoted line I noticed there was knowledge for it said, “the Father KNOWETH…” but no relationship or link. Having direct relationship or link with God is really an interesting subject of discussion for it present a challenge that up to know as far as I know no one has given a convincing answer.
Thanks for the info just the same. 😄
Right on, bro!
Do not use middleman if possible! Middleman will always take percent!
No real difference whether he is a priest or one who buys rice from a peasant.
Joe, I was about to post in the new blog you opened and was surprised you closed it. Since this blog is the prequel of that let me post it here and allow me to do my little part to mediate.
If the desire is to have a religion-neutral discussion, maybe it would help if we don’t frame, reference, and build the premise of a particular topic on biblical tales and myth, no? – Micha
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Fair is fair, I think the reference with biblical anecdote is obviously the writer’s way of making an analogy of the idea he’s espousing to show where the root cause of the issue could have manifested and why the ‘victim hood’ on our being came about. The author’s thinking presented the argument that we ought to be doing the right thing and veer away from the acts we ourselves make to rid our system of victimhood complex. At least, that’s what my understanding of the piece is.
On the other hand, I completely get what Micha was driving at. Biblical parables, while proper and just in good manners and right conduct topic or discussion, is not really a healthy vehicle to push one’s political viewpoint. While the article had a modicum of social relevance in terms of our so-called erring ways it is clearly a call for renewed support for the administration that has been tattered in ruins by constant attacks and criticisms, not to mention the self-flagellation, after the Mamasapano debacle. I think Micha was implying that resorting to biblical passages tends to becloud the main idea and drag us to abyss of confusion and misunderstanding.
Thing was Micha’s communication had an arrogant tune to it that throws everybody off balance. As an ordinary poster myself, I must admit to committing the same mistake also. Sometimes what we think, while we express it clearly, comes out differently in terms of tone or ‘sound’ when it reaches the eyes/minds of the readers. I’m sure Micha’s intent was to invite to engage on the idea in setting aside the biblical part and go straight to the facts. We can always change gear and go back on track.
My take: Joe’s piece is one that we call, it is what it is. He presented an idea and it is up to us to comment on the IDEA and not on the way how he presented it. Micha, you have a point. If only you can engage Joe on the ‘meat’ of the topic and not on the ‘wrapper’ the meat was covered of.
My comment on the meat to follow and I’m sending it without a wrapper. 😎
Tabula Rasa guys, let us continue the discussions here, we already know what not to do.
I suggest Joe reopen the new blog and continue the discussion on the issue. I would also propose to invite anyone, with Joe’s approval of course, who want to put up a blog with religion as topic and there we all vent.
I’m with respectful exchanges as Joe reiterated and that is only possible if we can hold our horses and not be carried away. Guys, let’s violently and emotionally disagree with one another just don’t forget the border line that limits how we express ourselves.
“While the article had a modicum of social relevance in terms of our so-called erring ways it is clearly a call for renewed support for the administration” Yes, I get that Joe is often not just writing about certain values, but also about how he thinks they should be used.
This is something I do not really agree with. True knowledge also means independent thinking and mixing it with a guide on how to think correctly is not what it is supposed to be.
If mistakes for example are to be seen as lessons to be learned in the context of Noynoy, why not see them also as lessons to be learned in the context of Grace Poe or Duterte? Poe made just one mistake and write her off, but not Noynoy? Duterte can learn as well.
In fact Duterte’s extreme flexibility in coming up with new ideas is what impresses me most. Federalism yes, but centralism when it comes to police and military. If he continues his thinking on that line, no death squads nationally, but reform the judiciary and the police.
Some of the smartest people are those who think “simply” – meaning in terms of results.
Pinoy, I think it’s too early to campaign for Duterte. The guy hasn’t even express his intention to run for president. ✋ Anyway, back to the topic.
The Mamasapano report was not really nice to Pres. Aquino. But it doesn’t mean there was conspiracy or intent to put the President in a bad light. I don’t buy that theory. For one, the report was factual. It was based on the hearings and deliberations conducted by the Committee. It held no punches nor protect anybody from any pitfalls. It was a judgment call and I agree with it.
I commend Sen. Grace Poe for the output because its not easy to come up with something that practically incriminate someone (PNoy) who have been for the most part instrumental in influencing or help her, for want of a better term, to join public service and be a part of government. I’m sure there was nothing personal on her end.
Which brings me to the ‘victim hood’ angle of the story. PNoy is not a victim in Mamasapano debacle. He was seen as the culprit or one of the culprits in taking steps that put to question the veracity and soundness of the planning and execution of the operation. I can defend the President effectively why not but I have to accept first his contribution to the fiasco to be able to put credibility on my defense. One cannot simply defend him by pointing out his accomplishments or how honest he is because it is irrelevant to the main issue. Sweeping the Mamasapano under the rug and crying foul just won’t cut it. Yes, there’s politics that goes with the attack and it’s unfair. But that’s what politics is, to have the advantage if the opportunity presents itself. 😎
“Sweeping the Mamasapano under the rug and crying foul just won’t cut it.” Definitely not. The investigations will go on, but the public is already calmer because of summer vacation. After that, people will come back, but the rainy season is not so conducive to any kind of uprising on the street I suppose and there will be a lot of work to be done again. But politics will continue because the campaign period may start in October.
“Yes, there’s politics that goes with the attack and it’s unfair.” Not that unfair anymore, the danger of impeachment or uprising is no longer there IMHO. Destabilization – not really. What I do not share is Joe’s fear that weakening Noynoy will make Binay next President.
“But that’s what politics is, to have the advantage if the opportunity presents itself.” It is like business competition – which is a good thing within certain rules because it keeps competitors on their toes. Democracy and capitalism go together – they are the best ways to regulate the realities of human nature – greed and hunger for power that will never go away even in the most advanced countries, so better have them watching one another. Philippine democracy is in the middle of a great learning and maturation process now.
What I do not share is Joe’s fear that weakening Noynoy will make Binay next President.
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You know what, that’s a possibility. Look, if I’m Mar Roxas and PNoy will endorse me as president with the public rating he has now, I’ll be nervous. An endorsement of a president who the public practically trash is like a kiss of death. All I can say is, all the decisions and steps that PNoy took after Mamasapano is a source of joy and delight to Jojo Binay. 💬
Knowledge is a tool, use it or lose it.
Knowledge can also be a weapon.
Proper usage is important,
Use use it as a tool for resilency, hey guys we are said to be resilient.
Let us not think of cockroaches when we hear resilient or else someone might just step on us.
Don’t think of underdogs and victims, think of winning even when losing or else you will just feel like the comic character in Born Loser. Or Charlie Brown who thinks grief is good, because he always says good grief.
COME to think of it grief IS good, but set a dead line.
Tools can also be weapons. Which is why hammers may no longer be sold in malls.
Forgot knowledge is Power. Power tools are weapons, if you have an electric socket nearby.
Now I know why I thought you were young. You still have the childlike (not childish!) curiosity and openness that younger people usually have. The system can destroy it.
True knowledge makes you not just resilient, it makes you antifragile. Meaning you can respond to situations that are unexpected and become stronger through them.
Antifragility make you more confident because you do not need to fear so many things.
Joes main point was the confidence gained from true knowledge, acquired from lessons learned by own thinking and trial and error, is what the Philippines badly needs.
THAT is the main issue that the Philippines has – because mistakes may not be made in the system. I was lucky to have very modern teachers, U.P. Elementary was not unter DepEd/MinEd, it was under the U.P. College of Education and they tried modern methods on US. Pisay is DOST.
But for the most part, knowledge in the Philippines is just RECEIVED knowledge, not knowledge acquired by own thinking and tinkering, so it is often very shallow and memorized, having nothing to do with the knowledge gained by real life experience. Theory and practice seldom connect.
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This explains a lot of the hardheadedness, because this is a sign of insecurity – what has been memorized is not fully understood and is therefore not rooted in oneself. That insecurity causes many Filipinos who “know” more than others to put down those who were not able to “know”.
People who are truly secure in their knowledge like to teach and learn. Those who are not secure in their knowledge like to pontificate and put down, or reject those who try to teach as “arrogant”.
Often “knowledge” in the Philippines is just a status symbol, and ignorance a badge of rebellion. This is the reason why Binay and Erap are so popular with the masses. Hardheaded knowledge leads to absurd court rulings completely divorced from the meaning of the words in the law.
———————————————————————————————————————
True confidence comes from true knowledge. Not just true knowledge but knowing how to use it in real life and applying it to getting things done. And seeing mistakes as lessons to be learned.
True knowledge is not highfalutin. It can be expressed in a simple way to give access to the less knowledgeable, it can be expressed in a complex way to discuss details. It is flexible, not rigid. True knowledge is alway open to new learning, not closed to it. And it likes to share with others.
Some examples of lacking true knowledge – in my opinion:
– discussing constitutionality of BBL instead of what parts are not desirable and how to change them, or if it is seen as totally undesirable then why
– discussing TROs, CA and other details regarding Junjun Binay instead of discussing what evidence is already clearly there and how the rest can be secured
– discussing candidates instead of discussing how they work, how their character is and how their policies could be when they are elected
Knowing a lot of details is not knowledge – knowing how to put them into a larger context is.
DATA is not INFORMATION is not KNOWLEDGE is not WISDOM.
Which means that true knowledge should never be divorced from common sense.
It should be rooted in common sense and not just be highfalutin theory.
Confidence is having your chin up and singing, Sunny days, sweeping the clouds away,on my way to where the air is sweet, can you tell me how to get, how to get to Sesame Street
Or Tomorrow sung by Annie…..
Or what you can see in the faces of Banatao and Lagmay. Quiet confidence coming from knowing what they have achieved and can still achieve.
When they were your teachers, did they have the “Close-Up” confidence?
Mahar was not my teacher, also not Banatao. Mahar was my kababata at U.P.
He was a bit of a non-conformist, rebel and outsider like me. Many parents told their children not to talk to him, they found him a source of trouble. You know how it is.
Oh yes I do, I miscalculated,but at least even unintentional we are even in calling each other young.
I was exaggerating about Winnie the Pooh, true I got bored, but I didn’t sleep through it.
PiE this is just a joke ha….
“It is more fun to talk with someone who doesn’t use long, difficult words but rather short, easy words like “What about lunch?”
― A.A. Milne, Winnie-the-Pooh
This is more apt.
“I knew when I met you an adventure was going to happen.”
― A.A. Milne
Hehe, the victim version of that I have heard much more often:
gago ka, dahil lang sa iyo napasubo ako sa gulo!
Same to you, nasa nagdadala yan.hehe remember that thing that made us jerks.
Victim version ba pag tagalog ? like buti nga sayo could be positive when translated to english which is good for you.
Strange that we use Tagalog to refer to what is in the “dirty kitchen” and English for the “clean kitchen”. In English we say the nice things and in Tagalog the bad things.
Language is formed by culture and vice versa, so a lot of expressions in the vernacular express victim culture. It will probably take some time until that changes, because the victim culture and the ignorance culture that goes with it is very deep. And unconscious.
Siguro iba ang pag-iisip ng mga katulad ni Mahar at katulad natin dahil lahat tayo lumaki “sa loob” – kami ni Mahar sa loob ng UP, ikaw sa loob ng kampo. Those places are outside the real Philippine Society, you are close to it and can visit it every day then come back.
Those who grew up not so protected do not have the luxury of being able to observe and reflect, they are in the middle of things. Studies of cave paintings have found out that people who lived in constant fear develop a different, more shortsighted type of thinking.
Like the husband of my sister who comes from the British working class and worked his way up once told me: people who don’t know if they are going to have a future do not learn to think about it. And people who have been hungry in their lives will always have a scar in them and act like hungry animals in certain situations. His grandfather grew up in a North London slum, his father is a hard man who is a building contractor now, he knows.
As for Banatao and the one in Munich, they are closer to Sonny’s generation – things were much harder then, but also simpler. Somehow the values of the country were not yet so corrupted and the differences between rich and poor were probably not so extreme. What seems to have destroyed a lot of values was the time of Marcos. Although I read that World War 2 also destroyed a lot, relative to the prosperous 1920s and 1930s.
In that sense, every time and every situation has its possibilities and its disadvantages.
Finally it boils down to Joe’s idea that the rising middle class wil change things.
Because their children grow up in more security but without entitlement.
They then do not have the attitude scarred by hunger and fear.
This made my day. http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/684601/cct-beneficiary-to-study-civil-engineering-in-up
And now I have a hero, a heroine. Alyannah Terite. Age 15. I’m confident she will make her way just fine.
Did you know that one-fourth of all public school students never make it through their school year?
Thanks for bringing her to our attention. And granting proper credit to the CCT program.
“While the article had a modicum of social relevance in terms of our so-called erring ways it is clearly a call for renewed support for the administration” Yes, I get that Joe is often not just writing about certain values, but also about how he thinks they should be used.””
Pie reacting to Jameboy
___________
Caveat Emptor.
What Joe writes, if we don’t agree, we get the remote and change the channel.We can stay in the channel and find some one to watch it with and sulk the whole time and in every scene you tell the one beside you, this show sucks, the scriptwrier is wrong, the story should have gone like this, this character shouldn’t have died, this character should have apologized…….and so on
I am just the third critic on the couch, watching the audience and not the show.
Comments on the sequel is on again.fyi