Quantum Living
Analysis and Opinion
By Joe America
Generally, I’m a pragmatist, a realist searching for truth and well-being for myself and others carved out of the life we face as we arise each morning, go out, and do our best. Having read and studied and argued at length, I find that I have little patience for cruelty and nonsense. Yet I know that every person has a life and context that places them legitimately in the place where they belong.
I get that morality is fluid, drifting here and there based on self-interest or self-absorption, the art of self-justification in an intimidating world.
But there is a sizable part of my thinking and beliefs that is detached from this world, this life, this pragmatistic confinement. I’m a quantum person living a quantum life. I think the universe is a huge Möbius strip wrapped around itself, comprised of all the souls of the universe shooting this way and that across time and space, forever crossing paths in an infinite lifestream of quantum being that occasionally stops and allows us to smell the roses or suffer unimaginable pain.
Faith is true in this world, in all its many forms, whether you shun pork or love the stuff. No matter, God is with us and in us and completely non judgmental, zooming across the cosmos laughing or crying during those moments when we are awake, sentient, and emotional in a pragmatic world.
I once sat in the darkness of a small chapel in the hills of Northern Portugal, communing with the souls of peasants who had lived, married, and died nearby, and worn the cement floor shiny and smooth shuffling through over the 400 years that the chapel had received them. I fled in terror as footsteps squished across the upper balcony coming to join me. The hairs on the back of my neck still rise when my mind takes me back there.
Well, that is one quantum instance. There have been others. My first ex-wife was a fortune teller, a mind-reader who could tap the quantum lifestream when she wanted to. She didn’t do it often because there was too much pain there. But she said, half a century ago when we had first met and she was amusing me by reading my palm. “You are a writer.” Some time later she said, “You are a lucky person.” She meant my life’s venture would be good. And then there was the time at a party when she said “Let’s go home.” She had talked to a woman who was about to endure tragedy. My ex knew stuff.
So we went home.
Our place and space together right now is but a blink of a wee small quantum eye. It is probably happening again in some other place and space, but we won’t know it until we move over there. I don’t think heaven is a green pasture in the clouds, it is a whiff of fancy, a quantum transmission of our souls to another time and space, eternal. We are gifted awareness, right now, is all. We can do things with it.
Why make a mess of it?
_______________
Photo. Möbius strip construction. China News Service
The Society of Honor by Joe America 
Your first ex was the Singaporean? (don’t have to answer)
I used to watch Scott Bakula’s ” Quantum Leap”, we now have quantum computers.
Was it Madonna who sang we live in a quantum world ?
I just typed quantum on my search engine box and I found this 100 year old quantum experiment.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/100-years-ago-a-quantum-experiment-explained-why-we-dont-fall-through-our-chairs/
Yes, Singaporean. Perfect British accent. This posting is part Camus philosophy and part an “aha moment” from reading about “the quantum soul”. I can’t readily find the recent article on research in this area that I read, but this link gives a hint: https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-1-4614-0647-1_5
Thanks.
First guess: electron clouds in our clothing repel electron clouds in the chair, quantumly speaking.
The connotation of the term “quantum” has been expanded metaphorically beyond Physics. Any field of study can “borrow” the term for the similarities the term can describe. I appreciate the way the idea of a 4th dimension (spin) is described.
🙂
Quantum, the adjective, is highly sensitive to: duality, polarity, direction, spin, velocity, refraction, time, superposition, attenuation, entanglement, etc., intention quite often not evident.
>
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The above interaction between, Gemino Abad and Joe is perfect example of Conceptual Art. Claud Shannon’s https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Information_theory . thus censorship will never prevail. > and . , that’s fucking genius!!!
I think he and I are brothers in some conceptual quantum universe elsewhere, just popping up here to amuse observant earthlings.
Paging NH or Sonny
Need your help in explaining this.
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s41470-019-00038-z
Quantum Measurement, Consciousness, and the Soul: a New, Alternative Position
And this
https://www.academia.edu/6459794/Quantum_Reversal_of_Soul_Energy
Quantum Reversal of Soul Energy
Whoa karl, I read the first link; too deep for me. Nevertheless, what thoughts — the writer was able to string along a wide range of items soul, consciousness, mathematics, physics; and an equally wide range of philosophers and scientists.
Thanks NH, the first link is more encompassing, the second link has more engineering to it. Reverse Engineering the soul. (sort of)
Theory of everything.
1) We live in a multiverse
2)Einstein and his relatives(I mean theory of relativity and other theories)
3) The digital universe or cosmos as a vast neural network
These can all be seen in the nearly cancelled Arrowverse.
But I got to watch that latest Matrix movie.
Elon Musk has that Neuralink thing.
It was supercomputers in my time with Seymour Cray & Gene Amdahl, Karl.
https://www.ipwatchdog.com/2015/12/05/seymour-cray-father-of-supercomputers/id=63515/
A few years ago there was a commenter who took us by storm until Iineo called him out, I forgot his name, but Ivremember his IBM quote: I think therefor IBM. Here is another name I miss: josephivo.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/joeam.com/2018/04/18/politics-power-and-processors/amp/
Ah Ray James was his name.
https://joeam.com/2015/04/09/in-defense-of-knowledge-philippine-victimhood-the-sequel/#comment-117616
“Knowledge is power, but the value of knowledge is when it is shared, magnified, and applied to good effect.”
————–
Thanks for the link Sir Karl. So much to learn indeed.
Welcome
Pragmatism was mentioned by Joe. I looked up on Charles Pierce and William James. They belong to the Metaphysical Club.
Boy I miss Edgar.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Sanders_Peirce
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_James
From the Cartesian: “I think therefore I am ” to Aristotle’s Telos.
More on that Metaphysical club.
https://www.baltimoresun.com/news/bs-xpm-2001-07-01-0107010280-story.html
Soon there will be a Quantum Living club.
Looks loke a book worth reading. I mean, 10 years in the making? I’ll buy the book to reward the author for his endurance. 😁 Even if it ends up being one of those books everyone has but nobody reads because the ideas are so thick, or deep.
Okay, bought it. $11.99 marked down from $18 on Kindle. Published in 2002. Historical basis to American thinking. Something Irineo would write if he were in America.
Write a review to that as a part two to this blog entry. I was correct to say that not everything is about politicians running this election.
I do not now if this is a rival group because I also saw Ralph Waldo Emerson mentioned in the Metaphysical club.
Well, what’s in a name?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transcendental_Club
“… nobody reads because the ideas are so thick, or deep.”
Joe, I like this category; hits me right there. 🙂
“silent waters run deep; shallow water is clear; “–sonny
https://smarthistory.org/abstract-art-and-theosophy/
Can only be expressed in Art IMHO, karl.
I hope Joe takes the family here, the latest iteration of theosophy/art in modern day,
Nice!
This is why I also believe in angels. 🙂
Sonny responded to me through viber chat.
Full disclosure, I was ready to ditch what little I picked up from Quantum Mechanics (QM) from Chem courses in school. Changed my mind; themes in the articles Karl mentioned (Springer & Academia) making me hold on.
Joe led the way per usual.
Reminds me of the late Edgar Lores article, The Akashic Records. The discussion is beyond my understanding but interesting.
https://joeam.com/2016/09/01/the-akashic-records/
I thought Neil Gaiman’s “the Sandman” covered all that really in depth (that’s the best video of it on youtube IMHO). Hope Joe jr. reads it. But also goes well with those three Bible books. Always a perfect day for bananafish, Joe.
A wise doctor once wrote
If that was not a prescription, Maybe the wise doctor was talking to his son who plans to take engineering that aftter all the math subjects, he will just have to throw all that knowledge away because of MSExcel.
Nice chart, karl.
But I have to disagree that knowledge gained from all those math subjects will be thrown away because of Excel. At the very least not basic operations and algebra. Unless as an engineer one is employed not as an engineer but for number crunching using Excel — which a clerk can do very well without an engineering degree. [This is not disparaging clerks; in terms of B/C ratio their education may give more returns.]
Here I can agree: Spreadsheets (MSExcel) and Word Processor (MSWord) are wonderful tools.
Joke only NH
I too started my college life with an engineering course, but I fouled up and had to shift course.
Yeah that is over simplification, hypobole if there is such a word
A difference of view now and then, karl. We agree 90 percent + on a lot of things that really matter in our country. 🙂
Speaking of disagreements, haha, have you followed the biggest crypto-heist for all ages?
https://www.bworldonline.com/us-accuses-couple-of-laundering-4-5-billion-in-bitcoin-tied-to-2016-hack/
“Cases like these demonstrate that the Justice Department “can follow money across the blockchain, just as we have always followed it within the traditional financial system,” said Kenneth Polite, assistant attorney general of the department’s Criminal Division.”
Per Gian Social Engineering was used
To hack
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_engineering_(security)
We call it budol budol
Sort of giving away the keys through hypnotism like manipulationm
Re the Bitcoin heist, $4.5B worth. But the Fed was on the job and got the couple who profited from it, although at the moment only $3.6B worth of Bitcoin (94,000) was recovered.
Interesting also is that when the heist was done the reported 119,754 Bitcoins was valued at only $71 million. Meaning the price was only $592/ Bitcoin then. At $4.5B those Bitcoins come to $37,600/ Bitcoin.
Where are the other 25,754 Bitcoins still unrecovered?
Karl, did you get one of those at a bargain then? It’s now worth 63 times. 🙂
Am not into that my self. My only investments are VULs Bur I will be happt if someone I know gets rich bwcause of this
“We call it budol budol”
Yup, always been wary of this one, karl. Especially during COVID!
That is boodle fight.
Budol budol is a form of psychological manipulation and even hypnotism.
Hmmm, they seem the same to me then. 😂😂😜🤔🤔🤔
Come to think of it…..yeah some Jedi mind trick tradition.
Some politicians do this to show that they can eat with their hands
apt name would have been boodle feast, nagkamayan, kinamut sa bisaya. usually for tired soldiers, a feast thrown at a drop of a hat, all there on banana leaves. communal eating before reporting for duty.
question: who works 18hrs a day? lot of housewives do, specially mothers with young children: washing, ironing, cooking and preparing meals, cleaning the house, mopping the floor, going to the market to buy food, paying bills, etc. unpaid work done with love. worst when a child is sick, walang tulog si inay at halos nataranta!
the lucky ones hire yayas to care for the kids, hatid sundo sa escuela. not everyone can afford yayas though.
students may not know it, but they often put in more than 18hrs of studies a day, doing research, assignments, class presentations, preparing for questions and answers, reading recommended books and materials and being in libraries, and still students burn the midnight oil, trying to commit to memory important stuff.
those that did not finish their studies and fake their degree would not know what students go through, lol!
mismo
From google, budol-budol
The term “budol-budol” comes from the Hiligaynon language referring to the gang which specialized in doing the con.
The operation is similar to the “Ativan Gang”.
Thanks ISK
greatest budol budol happening right under our noses! an agency that rhymed with turmeric perpetuated the con and declared the blind – king of the sighted, lol!
Karl, I fell off at Differential Equations and landed among IBM mainframes. (good chart, good ole Cartesian coordinates)
But even with our generation gap we both are awed with the Math magic of NH, uncle Sonny.
Hey Lcx, if you had been wondering who on earth is Unk. Sonny called me Neph, so I called him Unc.
The Arabs do the same thing, karl. Uncle but specifically the father side Uncle, cuz mother side Uncle is a different word. This is the first I’m hearing this in the Philippines. I remember the words Kuya and Manong. But the spanish Tio and Tia are held for real Uncles and Aunts, except maybe close family friends. This is the first I’m learning of this Uncle -Nephew use. Or is this an Ilocano thing. not really Visayan or Tagalog. thanks.
Sonny is westernized being in the US since even before I was born, his callling me neph and me calling him Uncle has nothing to do with the Philippines were we call Uncles and Aunties Tito and Tita or Tiyo And Tiya. Manong and Manang is more like kuya and ate or older sibling.
There waa a children’s show before called Uncle Bob’s lucky seven club.
We grew up familiar with callibg any grownup “Uncle”
https://lostmediawiki.com/Uncle_Bob%27s_Lucky_7_Club_%28partially_found_Filipino_live_children%27s_TV_series;_1961-1992%29
On the 2nd video at 4:27 , it seems the message is something like “Don’t worry, be happy ” and be humble ?
The musical Carousel sings along similar themes. IMO.
LOL! like that cartoon show titled Uncle Grandpa, karl.
this was a good book too,
from the New Yorker review:
“Convenience Store Woman,” a novel by the best-selling Japanese author Sayaka Murata, is the first of her ten novels to be translated into English. The book centers on a thirty-six-year-old woman named Keiko Furukura, an oddball who is endlessly puzzled by human behavior. She describes the condescension she experiences at the hands of men in her social circle as “fascinating.” She mimics her co-workers’ vocal inflections in order to fit in. She is blithely indifferent to sex or dating, and uninterested in leaving her dead-end job at the Hiiromachi Station Smile Mart, a “transparent glass box” in a pristine and anonymous business district. (The author herself worked at a convenience store for nearly eighteen years.)
For the most part, her manner is that of a friendly alien scientist, but, at times, she swerves toward the psychopathic. Keiko occasionally endorses utilitarian violence: as a girl, she broke up a schoolyard fight by hitting one of her classmates over the head with a spade, and could not understand why her teachers were angry—after all, they’d said they wished the fight to end. And, when her sister Mami despairs that her baby won’t stop crying, Keiko idly marvels that no one has thought to stab it with a small knife. But Keiko finds purpose and acceptance at the Smile Mart, where she receives a uniform and a manual that outlines exactly how she is supposed to conduct herself, down to the scripted phrases approved for customer interactions. “This is the only way I can be a normal person,” Keiko realizes. The novel borrows from Gothic romance, in its pairing of the human and the alluringly, dangerously not. It is a love story, in other words, about a misfit and a store.
Or is horror the more accurate genre? Keiko’s ability to anticipate shoppers’ desires—and to efface herself—seems at once uncanny and depraved, implying a lack of soul. She believes that she can “hear the store’s voice telling what it wanted, how it wanted to be. I understood it perfectly.” What might read as “competence porn,” the rare kind that focusses on menial, hourly labor, here feels more like a portrait of candy-colored subservience, or even self-immolation. In Keiko’s case, a strange and alienating job suits a strange and alienated person. “I am one of those cogs, going round and round,” she chirps. “I have become a functioning part of the world, rotating in the time of day called morning.”
isk, if you dig deeper there’s plenty of stuff that s prescient really for example, here:
that’s why I read the Bible, isk, and pretty much all of Neil Gaiman’s books.
Screen shots of these quotes i found on Reddit this morning , Joe. Relevance to the blog underlined.
Humm, I guess Nietzsche was a Republican, finding that joy in power. 🤣 Thanks for the links to those thinkers who, to me, seem to be saying about the same thing.
“I once sat in the darkness of a small chapel in the hills of Northern Portugal, communing with the souls of peasants who had lived, married, and died nearby, and worn the cement floor shiny and smooth shuffling through over the 400 years that the chapel had received them.”
Deja vu, Joe. Never been to Portugal, but read Michener’s intro to his book IBERIA, he recalled what motivated the conquistadors of the Americas to endure hardships so far away from home; he retraced a few of them to have come from the region of Extremadura at the border of Spain & Portugal where life mirrored the name of the region, so they soldiered on with the thought that anywhere is better than home.
sonny, Exactly! now they are getting cancelled and statues are getting fell because they were mean to Indians in the Carribbean and the mainland. the ratio was like 1: 1,000 , those guys kicked ass. period.
My Andalusian trip, the last big one pre-pandemic, showed me what kind of qualities the Spanish conquerors had, for better and for worse. The power games they played, pitting Native American kingdoms (and not much later, Philippine chiefs) against one another, were a skill learned in the Reconquista, pitting rival Emirs against one another. Of course the Andalusians are a story for themselves, mixed as mixed can be.
Our tour guide was BTW an Egyptian with a German degree in Islamic art. His POV of the Spanish was of course very much shaped by his background. He emphasized how much Spanish nobles had taken from expelled Moors and Jews, before America was raided.
That makes a whole lot of sense, Ireneo.
Just like how the word guerilla came out of the Napoleonic wars in Spain.
As for your Egyptian guide if he’s got any MB and/or Salafi bent then he’d still be thinking of Andalusia as theirs, long memories. Which is so weird because here in the US, we have really short memories. and theres the rub.
Columbus statues are gone, Father Junipero Sierra statues too and i guess up in BC, Canada James Cook statues been taken down too. Arbitrarily, Founding Fathers statues are still up. I say take ’em all down. just like the Taliban and the Buddha statues.
Cancel all. only fair.
(from Wiki) al-Andalus, which likely derives from the name “Vandalacia” Latin for country of the Vandals.
I am more for keeping the old stuff and giving it better context than cancel.
There is a suburban part of Munich where the streets mostly have colonial names. People decided to put historical context under the street signs instead of changing them.
Just like the statue of General Tilly of the Catholic League in the 30 Years War still stands prominently in the center of Munich. Germany in those days was like Syria, with internal quarrels and foreign intervention razing most of the country to the ground.
The very idea of state sovereignty was defined AFTER all of that, Peace of Westphalia. Tilly’s troops razed the Protestant town of Magdeburg to the ground, leaving just a good dozen inhabitants alive. Imagine the sheer ruthlessness of doing that with swords and muskets. Yet his statue still stands, one the other side of the monument to Bavarian generals there is General Wrede, on Napoleon’s side in Russia and against Napoleon AFTER Bavarian troops were decimated in guarding Napoleon’s retreat from Russia.
As for monuments, those with a mixed religious history fascinate me. Until I saw the Mezquita of Cordoba, once an Emirate, the Hagia Sophia was the only place I what seen Christian and Islamic symbols side by side. Thanks to Atatürk who had all uncovered.
Our guide did mention that Muslims aren’t allowed to pray in the Cordoba Mezquita which is still in use as a Cathedral. No radical tendencies in him, more of the traditional Arab historical pride, was a bit annoyed when I asked him about the Ottoman Turk Caliphs. Probably also the cultural pride of the Egyptians who see their version of Arab as the most correct way, and he was cross-selling his coming tours to Egypt to some people. What he also did tell us about is how Spain has fishing rights in Moroccan waters..
The arches of the Mezquita are simply fascinating BTW. And the place is HUGE.
Guides are interesting as well, especially our guide in Sicily in 2018 who wasn’t willing to talk a lot about the Spanish period, 6 centuries under landlords from what used to be Aragon and then became part of Spain. The Spanish guard towers against Moroccan pirates all are at the edge of the island and probably have line of sight contact, ideal for old fashioned optical telegraphs (flares or fire) to quickly warn of approaching invaders.
A guide I had in Majorca who was older still told of life before tourism, and how the tourist boom caused numerous desalination plants to be built on the island which is quite arid. Before that ships from the mainland brought fresh water. And one could see how parts of the island had fortresses built to keep people safe from Moroccan pirates, obviously the scourge of the Western Med for quite a while.
Cordoba. Is that where the cathedral has red and white striped ceilings? Awesome place. All those towns along southern Spain have their cathedrals, the most amazing being the Alhambra in, ummm, Granada? Very cross-cultural. I’ve go to go back through my pics and a map. I drove the area in a rental, with a girlfriend, of course. Adventure in narrow streets. We met the mad butcher of Cordoba, were stuffed into a maid’s room in one overbooked hotel, prowled cathedrals, and hung out in a seaman’s bar in Cadiz.. The “white cities”. Fantastic.
Yes, the red and white stripes on the arches whose picture I posted. A Cathedral built inside an old mosque, just like Hagia Sophia was once a mosque in what used to be the greatest Eastern Christian Cathedral.
Didn’t get to Cadiz, but quite close, Jerez de la Frontera, the home of sherry. With the statue of a former dictator, Primo Rivera, whose statues have fallen in all of Spain, except in his hometown Jerez. Related to a Philippines governor. Unlike austere Franco, Primo Rivera was known to be crazy in a very Andalusian way, skipping work for nights of carousing and womanizing. But still a soldier.
Before Cadiz was Ronda, home of bullfighting, small town with a deep gorge.
Sevilla with its flamenco, and also the Magellan exhibit for which I skipped lunch. 2019 was 500 years after Magellan’s fleet started down the Guadalquivir River in Sevilla, just half loaded, to be fully loaded upon reaching the Atlantic.
My research for the Magellan article in this blog got started almost two years before it’s publication, just after we had been in the splendid Seville Cathedral.
Cordoba with its very narrow streets a contrast to the majestic avenues of Sevilla and Jerez. Splendid food in a rooftop restaurant. The ruins of a Moorish fortress outside Cordoba.
Ubeda and Baeza, small towns that were totally un-Moorish, where the guide emphasized how the wealth of the local lords had once been Moorish. A look over the mountains into Castile, the land of castles, core of Spain.
Finally Granada, the magnificent Alhambra which has fascinated generations. Days walking up and down the hills. Splendid views from the rooftop bar.
To the coast, a fishing village and seafood in a beach restaurant. Back to Malaga where the trip had started, Picasso house tour. Final night in the touristy Torremolinos. Bus to Malaga Airport the next morning.
Malaga airport I had an exchange on FB with Carlos Celdran and we agreed that we would meet in Madrid and I would take part in his Rizal tours the next time. Unfortunately Celdran died a few weeks later. Next spring was the pandemic.
In the Sevilla Cathedral, there is a monument to Columbus, with his ashes taken back from Cuba back in 1898. It shows the sadness Spain had over its loss of empire then. Also the guide mentioned how the idea of the “two Spains” dominated discourse there. There is a picture by Goya of two brothers fighting that symbolizes that. One Spain is backward and stubborn while the other is progressive and open. Well I guess every nation has its dual aspect. But we shall not stray into politics. I will stop now (c) Karl.
Ah, yes. I see the photo now. Reading from my admin pages doesn’t show them. If I had a restart, I’d probably try to settle in that area. Or Italy up around Florence. Old world.
I agree, ireneo. either fell them all, or leave them all alone.
This rule that Muslims cannot pray in old mosques, there s better examples in the East i think in which Muslims and Christians both pray in the same mosque. William Dalrymples “from the Holy Mountain” researched said phenomena even further.
Then theres this in India, and vice versa over at Pakistan (Sikh temple there),
This song is in the Mirandes language of the Northern Portuguese-Spanish border and is from the 12th century. It has a haunting quality to it, tonality and words.
Molinera means woman of the mill.
Molinera, molinera
Bien te lo decía yo,
Que la muerte de Manolo
Iba ser tu perdición.
Molinera, molinera
Donde vienes tu temprano?
Vengo de ver a Manolo
Que me han dicho, que ‘stá malo.
Unos dicen que se muere
Otros dicen que se acaba
Otros dicen que no llega
A las tres de la mañana.
ROUGH TRANSLATION:
Molinera, molinera
I told you that the death of Manolo
Would be your doom
Molinera, molinera
Where do you come from so early
I just saw Manolo, who they told me is bad
Some say he died, some say he left
Some say he did not arrive
At three in the morning
The last time you sang in Spanish when we were talking about Basta.(full stop(?))
That was in Italian, though Eros Ramazotti also has Spanish versions of his songs. Latin languages are so similar, about as close to each other as Tagalog, Bikol, Waray, Cebuano and Ilonggo. Many similar words though some words are falsos amigos, false friends. The most hilarious example is the word Ano in Portuguese which means year, similar to Año in Spanish, except that Ano in Spanish means anus. Reminds me of the old joke about the Bikolano who called fish “sirâ” in Manila and got into a fight in the palengke. Must be a postwar joke from the time when some Bikolanos couldn’t speak Tagalog. Whereas an Ilokano, incidentally, could ask for ikan in Jakarta and would get fish.
That’s one reason Romanians easily migrate to France, Spain or Italy. They can practically speak the language there within months and master it in a few years. Even if many go to Germany or used to go to UK, both places with many jobs for migrants.
O yes, I said that basta was Italian and you said their pronunciation of bastah was like pasta
The hills are strewn with old, black and gray rock walls, crumbled and useless except to harken back to a day when toil was the way of things. I can imagine wanting more.
Sonny, this is the Cubao of your youth:
Naala ko sabi ni Sonny na Camp Murphy pa noon time na base Commander ang dad nya. Nung pinanganak ako nung 71 Camp Aguinaldo na.
oops wrong. Sonny’s dad was never base Commander, but was assigned there in 1949.
Sorry Uncle Sonny.
oh boy, do I feel ancient looking at that pic, Irineo. We were already residents of Cubao when there was no Araneta Coliseum. Pastulan ng mga kalabaw ang Araneta grounds when we first came to the area in 1949.
It would seem that consciousness too is quantum in nature. That we are all quantum (spiritual) beings having a physical constituted experience.
But the transition from the realm of physics to the realm of biology involves Darwinian process. And that is where all the drama is coming from. It involves random chances, cruelty, pain, violence, and suffering as well as directed fitness eliciting joy, compassion, well-being and love.
Panpsychism anyone?
Thanks will look up .
For the un initiated to be initiated:
In the philosophy of mind, panpsychism (/pænˈsaɪkɪzəm/) is the view that the mind or a mindlike aspect is a fundamental and ubiquitous feature of reality.[1] It is also described as a theory that “the mind is a fundamental feature of the world which exists throughout the universe.”[2] It is one of the oldest philosophical theories, and has been ascribed to philosophers including Thales, Plato, Spinoza, Leibniz, William James,[3] Alfred North Whitehead, Bertrand Russell, and Galen Strawson.[1] In the 19th century, panpsychism was the default philosophy of mind in Western thought, but it saw a decline in the mid-20th century with the rise of logical positivism.[3][4]
LCx,
Your go to guy Spinoza is a practioner.
I don’t really think Spinoza is panpsychism, karl. But that we are inside the mind of God. then again its like potatoes tomatoes. difference only slight.
Slighter nuance than apples and oranges.
But that s neither here nor there, karl. Spinoza’s importance lies i think in his stress on using the imagination, sure reason to go step by step as he wrote, but to actually experience the mind of God , you have to go by IMAGINATION, so that theosophy/art convergence is related to what Spinoza was pointing towards.
Art. that’s where you find God.
Read: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/342572231_The_Three_Final_Doctrines_of_Spinoza_Intuition_Amor_Dei_the_Eternity_of_the_Mind
Ok will do
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/ejop.12052#:~:text=Intuitive%20knowledge%2C%20which%20Spinoza%20describes,’%2C%20is%20superior%20to%20reason.&text=More%20specifically%2C%20I%20maintain%20that,is%20not%20known%20by%20reason.
Abstract
While both intuitive knowledge (scientia intuitiva) and reason (ratio) are adequate ways of knowing for Spinoza, they are not equal. Intuitive knowledge, which Spinoza describes as the ‘greatest virtue of mind’, is superior to reason. The nature of this superiority has been the subject of some controversy due to Spinoza’s notoriously parsimonious treatment of the distinction between reason and intuitive knowledge in the Ethics. In this paper, I argue that intuitive knowledge differs from reason not only in terms of its method of cognition—but also in terms of its content. More specifically, I maintain that there is something that is known by intuition, namely the unique essences of things, that is not known by reason. My argument is supported by an examination of Spinoza’s account of essences in the Ethics, which reveals that he is committed to both unique and shared essences. Based on this dual commitment, I argue that whereas for Spinoza both reason and intuition can be said to reach adequate knowledge of the shared essence of a thing, the unique essence of a singular thing, which is nothing but its actual essence, can only be known through intuitive knowledge.
Yeah, so…
1. Knowledge (from the 5 senses)
2. Imagination (from the mind only)
3. Intuition (from both)
All three Spinoza mentions though his preference tends to be just 1 and 3. But in the Ethics, its 2 that crosses the bridge to understanding thus closer to God so to use a gen Z parlance to “vibe” with God which also makes sense at the quantum level, karl, his very own Leap of Faith (both with Scott Bakula and Søren Kierkegaard ‘s )
Thus for us regular folks, Imagination is the key. Vibing with God.
Also on Spinoza:
Click to access 1572316091070.pdf
“… For Spinoza, God is infinite substance, the unity of all that is; he is neither personal, nor creator, nor transcendent, nor present in history. Christ is the wise man par excellence, exemplary in every respect, but he is not God. The biblical narratives are largely shaped by human imagination, guided by a teleological and anthropomorphic conception of the uni verse. Religions are characterized by violence, serving the interests of the authorities who administer them; and they create division. The Christian religion is no exception to this pattern. It is therefore not sur prising that Spinoza’s philosophy was rejected as atheism and pantheism, and that no-one tried to read his writings in different terms. Yet, it is important to understand Spinoza carefully. For him, God is infinite. He is not a human projection. He can be known and loved, with an “intellectual love,” and he can lead us into an experience of eternity within time itself. Christ may not be God, but his message is of the utmost importance for the salvation of humanity. Bible stories are subject to critique because of the false conceptions of God they encourage, and because of the violent ways in which they have been used. Spinoza, however, holds that they should also be analysed care fully, so that we can identify the ethical core of their message. The same is true of religions, which can be authentic ways of salvation. This contribution is considerable and makes it worth our while to ask about the relevance of Spinoza for Christian theology today. …”
Quoted from Henri Laux.
Spinoza’s teacher was a former SJ, sonny, i forget his name now. Was active in the Netherlands, at which time it was Calvinists vs. Catholics, vs. the Church of England (farther to the east were Lutherans). because of this Spinoza made sure not to critique the Christian bible . But he did attack the Jewish Bible and concluded it was all superstition , knowing full well of course IMHO that he was doing the same to the Christian Bible, as the latter necessitated the former for legimacy. Got kicked out of his own Jewish community (Merranos) for it. Found lens grinding as profession to be the metaphor for his undertaking, peering closer to God (both microscopes and telescopes, this is their relationship… to Liebniz by the way he was a customer of Spinoza known to make the best lenses).
But that last part about stories is why I’m pushing Neil Gaiman so much. He and Spinoza are stradling the same treads.
thanks, sonny. love the last paragraph…
https://stanford.library.sydney.edu.au/archives/spr2010/entries/panpsychism/#:~:text=Baruch%20Spinoza%20(1632%2D77),he%20identified%20with%20God%20Himself.
Baruch Spinoza (1632-77) and Gottfried Wilhelm Leibniz (1646-1716) provide examples of two distinct and formatively important versions of panpsychism. Spinoza regarded both mind and matter as simply aspects (or attributes) of the eternal, infinite and unique substance he identified with God Himself. In the illustrative scholium to proposition seven of book two of the Ethics (1677/1985) Spinoza writes: “a circle existing in nature and the idea of the existing circle, which is also in God, are one and the same thing … therefore, whether we conceive nature under the attribute of Extension, or under the attribute of Thought … we shall find one and the same order, or one and the same connection of causes …”. We might say that, for Spinoza, physical science is a way of studying the psychology of God. There is nothing in nature that does not have a mental aspect—the proper appreciation of matter itself reveals it to be the other side of a mentalistic coin.
Leibniz’s view is sometimes caricatured as: Spinoza with infinitely many rather than just one substance. These substances Leibniz called monads (see Leibniz 1714/1989). Since they are true substances, and hence can exist independently of any other thing, and since they are absolutely simple, they cannot interact with each other in any way (nonetheless they are created by God, who is one of them—here Spinoza seems rather more consistent than Leibniz). Yet each monad carries within it complete information about the entire universe. What we call space and time are in reality sets of relations amongst these monads (or, better, the information which they contain) which are in themselves radically non-spatial and perhaps even non-temporal (Leibniz’s vision of space and time emerging from some more elementary systems of relations has always been tempting, if hard to fathom, and now fuels some of the most advanced physics on the planet).
Yeah, I think Leibniz’s is closer to the subject of the blog than anything, karl, with Quantum Living and Joe’s “Our place and space together right now is but a blink of a wee small quantum eye. It is probably happening again in some other place and space,” which coincides with the book “Anathem”… which i agree is a healthy way to burn brain power, eg What Ifs,
but I still prefer Spinoza’s We are inside God’s head, or His balls (and we are the stuff that also creates consciousness, that part is all Neil Gaiman, the two thoughts converge).
Your ability to make stories is what makes you holy, karl.
LC, you just reduced the meaning of “holy” = a made-up story. Yes? Like cherry-picking into a yarn.
Hello Sir Lance and Sir Sonny! Happy Valentines Day to your love ones.
sonny,
Basically, yes.
What sets us apart from everything else living or non-living is our ability to tell stories. Story equals reality. reality equal consciousness, consciousness is God. thus its the telling of stories that make us more like God.
isk is correct even the concept of Valentines day is a story. poooof! first theres no Valentines day, then lo and behold Valentines day. reality. thus God. Happy Valentines day, everyone. where plants’ flowers are plucked and sold, and given to loved ones, in the hopes of getting laid (eg. the Bulaklak song), thus another means of creation, but egg laying and baby making is something all too common amongst living things, so there has to be something that sets us apart. only one thing…
Your ability to make stories is what makes you holy.
What?! No st. Valentine?
You tell a lot of stories so you are holy.
We all are , karl. We tell stories. We are all holy.
Thanks.
“Your ability to make stories is what makes you holy, karl.”
Pascal’s wager: God exists or not? LC, you are now stradling the meaning of holy; one is yours, the other sense is other’s. I’m on the other’s side. “holy” is an adjective you can attach to anything, e.g. in a LEGO way or Aristotle’s way.
ho·ly
/ˈhōlē/
Learn to pronounce
adjective: holy; comparative adjective: holier; superlative adjective: holiest
1.
dedicated or consecrated to God or a religious purpose; sacred.
————————
sonny,
The implied definition is pre-Christian or non-Christian, like sacred. Meaning before the time of Jesus there was the Ancient Greeks, Romans, and whatever was happening in the Philippines at that time circa 100 BC let’s say and further back, they had a concept of what was holy (sacred), Jesus or the Bible need not be included.
Sacred. not dependent on anything organized really. just sacred in and of itself.
Kinda like Piety, sonny.
LC, as I implied we’re using different senses. You’ve localized the word to your dictionary of significance, just as I have mine. And I always use the word “holy” in the sense of something or someone “set apart.” If we’re agreed on that, we can stop there.
You can also define something from its opposite, sonny. So opposite of sacred is profane, meaning not profane is sacred.
Like karl’s quote of,
“Nietzsche believed that the removal of this system put most people at the risk of despair or meaninglessness. What could the point of life be without a God?”
Socrates had already defined it by what piety is not, above dialogue. And the question asked in the enclosed comic. Is truth (or rightness) defined or is it simply independent, eg. of gods and God. (also from Socrates).
So sacred is only one meaning, sonny. there is neither yours nor mine (LCPL_X’s definition; sonny’s definition). its sacred. period. Thus holy.
p.s. — sonny , i just caught Pres. Biden’s speech right now, re Ukraine.
And he used the word sacrosanct to describe our contract with NATO countries is sacro-sanct. From sacred (sacrum sanctum), but I would say this is the wrong definition. as it is worldly in nature, time constrained.
So, this is not what i mean by sacred. I can understand the stylistic use per Biden to stress the nature of NATO, but for our discussion here, if its worldly does not concern eternal timeless stuff, then it is not sacred.
LC, I watch out for CONFLATION of terms & meanings.
Conflation is the concourse; localization is the departire gate.
departure
This is a correct but broad description of God. Can be further broken down into theism & deism. Beyond this lies the differences among relationships God & man enter into. (revelation & theodicy).
“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.” – John 1 KGV
“Recite! In the Name of your Lord, Who has created all that exists” – the command of Archangel Gabriel (Jibril) to Mohammed in the desert
One could say our human capacity to narrate is what helps us create MEANING.
Not all meaning is necessarily holy, one can have different definitions of that.
Yuval Noah Harari sees humanity as unique in being driven by concepts.
Ah nice. thanks, Ireneo. I’m sure this isn’t a concept only Neil Gaiman came up with. I totally agree w/ Harari.
“So long as it does not involve regurgitating and spewing”
karl ,
That’s the beauty with this thought, that stories are holies. That if you go farther and farther back, you think about it, really think about it, you’re mad e up of stories. you see the world thru your first stories. from like 4 or 5 yrs old.
I’ve gone back as far as I can, and for me its this book , karl.
I dunno what Micha’s would be, or yours karl, or Ireneo’s, Joe’s , NH’s, sonny’s, isk’s… etc. etc.
But we are all just regurgitating and spewing (some just swallow their own puke i guess), but we are all of this stuff, stories, karl.
Think about it.
We are layers and layers of this stuff, but where does it all come from? the first narrative in my head that I can remember that my little brain turned into a personal story was of my parents arguing. then they saw me, and hugged me. there ‘s a beginning, middle and end. a story.
Those are the original self made stories we tell ourselves, but if you notice it still involves regurgitating and spewing too. or to be passive aggressive about it, swallowing of ones puke. whether stories come out or not, it is there is my point, karl.
Where does it come from.
By the exchanges below with Micha, it looks like you forgot your antacids. it is better to swallow your pride and not your vomit.
Happy Valentine’s!
🥰
LCX, re: your other go to guy Nietzche.
https://bigthink.com/thinking/what-nietzsche-really-meant-by-god-is-dead/
“The death of God didn’t strike Nietzsche as an entirely good thing. Without a God, the basic belief system of Western Europe was in jeopardy, as he put it in Twilight of the Idols: “When one gives up the Christian faith, one pulls the right to Christian morality out from under one’s feet. This morality is by no means self-evident… Christianity is a system, a whole view of things thought out together. By breaking one main concept out of it, the faith in God, one breaks the whole.”
Nietzsche thought this could be a good thing for some people, saying: “… at hearing the news that ‘the old god is dead’, we philosophers and ‘free spirits’ feel illuminated by a new dawn.” A bright morning had arrived. With the old system of meaning gone, a new one could be created. But it came with risks — ones that could bring out the worst in human nature. Nietzsche believed that the removal of this system put most people at the risk of despair or meaninglessness. What could the point of life be without a God?”
That is the question ain’t it, karl. Without God what’s the point?
Creation.
You always have an answer.
I just learned to deal with it instead of taking it against you and consider it a trap and an endless loop.
🤣
Karl, take a break with the lyrics of the song:
Windmills of Your Mind
Round like a circle in a spiral, like a wheel within a wheel
Never ending or beginning on an ever spinning reel
Like a snowball down a mountain, or a carnival balloon
Like a carousel that’s turning running rings around the moon
Like a clock whose hands are sweeping past the minutes of its face
And the world is like an apple whirling silently in space
Like the circles that you find in the windmills of your mind!
Like a tunnel that you follow to a tunnel of its own
Down a hollow to a cavern where the sun has never shone
Like a door that keeps revolving in a half forgotten dream
Or the ripples from a pebble someone tosses in a stream
Like a clock whose hands are sweeping past the minutes of its face
And the world is like an apple whirling silently in space
Like the circles that you find in the windmills of your mind!
Keys that jingle in your pocket, words that jangle in your head
Why did summer go so quickly, was it something that you said?
Lovers walking along a shore and leave their footprints in the sand
Is the sound of distant drumming just the fingers of your hand?
Pictures hanging in a hallway and the fragment of a song
Half remembered names and faces, but to whom do they belong?
When you knew that it was over you were suddenly aware
That the autumn leaves were turning to the color of her hair!
Like a circle in a spiral, like a wheel within a wheel
Never ending or beginning on an ever spinning reel
As the images unwind, like the circles that you find
In the windmills of your mind!
Thanks, NH. 🙂 This is one of those songs with lyrics & music perfectly matched no matter who sings it, or plays it. This one is my fav rendition: it soars …
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=luciano+pavarotti+ave+maria+schubert&view=detail&mid=D1CAC289B762096FC0F3D1CAC289B762096FC0F3&FORM=VIRE
PS. Incidentally, Luciano P. trained under Arrigo Pola, known to Filipinos of our time (1951) bcoz of Mr. Pola’s rendition of ANAK DALITA.
I do not want to go to windmills because of you know who.
This is a new explanation for me too, NH. it’s Neil Gaiman’s, not mine. I’m just connecting it to Spinoza and others. But this notion of stories as creation, and creations as Godly endeavors are worth thinking about.
But its first your notion of what is a story that needs tweaking. that was the main hurdle for me, thus now taking the idea for a test drive. kinda like Bitcoin. how emotional the response to it always tells you or allows you a gauge at an idea i’ve noticed, NH.
eg. Micha to Bitcoin. or Micha to fiat banking Fed system.
Its relevance is to Joe’s Quantum Living. Stories. and God.
or this,
History is his story, I bet because of gender neutrality soon they will replace history with something else.
In lack of forensic evidence it is widely known that in this part of blue and white marble with some brown we rely on affidavits.
Those collection of scrolls some loosely translated some where lost in translation some where discarded.
Is it holy if you tell stories then the barbershop is a holy place where the customer dare not to be holier than thou because he is not the one holding the sharp object.
if his hair would be murdered then he would cry holy crap.
Songs, and poems, and long stories and short stories, and oral epics. even just simple family stories, or bs stories about getting laid. Remember , karl, the Bible is just a collection of oral stories, then stitched together. from the obvious Psalms, to Job, to stories like Esther clearly w/out God in the story. even the book of Mark , karl, you can still see the cadence of the poem, the original Greek is in stanzas, the pattern so obvious that scholars can see where they were tweaked tampered with (because the rhyme is out of whack), the rhymes is what makes it easier to remember. Jews and Muslims sing when they read/recite their tomes. for example, here, karl…
time stamp 1:20 here, is the whole point. the power of stories.
https://www.aswangproject.com/ibalong-epic/
Cadungung, kindly narrate to us,
Historic times of great Handyong,
Sing with your lyre of silver tone
The sweet enchantment of Aslong.
For only you can put in song
Such beauty and renown that bring
The mysteries that now enshroud
This glorious land of long ago.
Sing, then, and tell us of its kings,
Their proud past and their valiant role
In war which they fought snake Oryol
Until they had defeated and its fall.
Do tell us also all about
The life of the old Asog,
Of the still young Masaraga,
And ancient moss-covered Isarog.
As tender bard enticing high
Seducer sweetest that is why
Among those who had seen the lake
In which was buried Fair Takay.
Then, sing to us now you are free
We shall listen to lovely song attentively
Out in the shade, right where we sit,
Here underneath the Dao Tree.
You Sons of Bicol, listen then,
Responded quickly Cadungung,
To the great deeds in this old clime,
This beautiful land of king Handyong.
The Kabikolan is a realm
With fertile fields of wide plains,
Fairest in the World, that nature gives,
The richest in what planting yields..
..Now that the land set free at last
With no more beasts of prey to kill,
He established better people laws
To serve his people interest and will..
..The laws and orders just made for all,
Upon their life and honor laid
He said equality to all the subjects
No distinction made both high and low..
..Then came a deluge on the land
Caused by the Onos force of old
So that the features of this earth
Were completely changed to behold.
Volcanoes Hantik, Isarog,
Culasi also burst so quick
And was felt simultaneously
The whole ground quake convulsively..
..In Bato a big mountain sank
That generated water tank
A lake came up which now supplies
Fish consumption by Ibalong folks..
Youre going pre-Christian on us, Ireneo!!! LOL!
that’s an example. perfect. stories evolve and we end up with Quantum physics. all stories really. But its the reason we’re human. and of God. in His image. not twins but because we make stories like Him.
So long as it does not involve regurgitating and spewing(C) Micha, it would be all good I guess.
(safe rom acid reflux)
oooooops, i scrolled up too far and replied. sorry. above is my reply , karl.
All is well!
Oh, addendum… karl, don’t confine your definition of stories into books or oral tradition only, games in and of themselves are also stories. a type of story. has beginning, middle, and end (like the Super Bowl also).
I haven’t read anything in which Neil Gaiman talks about Carl Jung and his take on stories, but I ‘m pretty sure he was exposed to Jung too.
Stories change minds. Again because they are magical, or holy depending on how you see the world. Magical for me doesn’t exclude God. same same. like magic and witchcraft , you’re simply accessing a higher plane.
But enough about esoteric stuff.
Back to stories evolving minds, if you see games as stories, and stories are of God, and God plus your Mind equals a higher level of thought, then what games you play are consequential. also the stories and theories you expose your mind to, but that’s a different matter,
just focus on games, karl.
Russians during the Cold War became obsessed with chess. they have a pretty good professional process. Jews who went to Israel were also really good at chess. if you noticed in the 70s, then checkmate now, the Arabs were always out played. even with 4 vs. 1 ratio.
Current events, Ukraine is basically the test case for Taiwan, testing the waters if you will. Because with Chinese CBDC they need a hedge, that’s Taiwan. Putin and Xi are acting in concert, and you get the feeling (unless we have a hattrick coming, karl) that the US is also being out played so too the EU and NATO.
And China has a pretty robust professional system in place for Go and Chinese Chess. imagine a society that has grown up with these games elevating it to really professional levels, their risk taking and cost benefit, to include 10-15 moves down the line, will be pretty damn honed, karl.
So this is the power of stories (and games). We here don’t play these games as much, but we watch and read a bunch of superior stories (our Hollywood and publishing industry). whether or not that’s equivalent to the Russians and Chinese’ games i dunno. we’ll see…
Now compare all that to the Lifestyle section of all Filipino newspapers (and Korina Sanchez), karl.
Hmm.. there was a time when the Asian Chess Grandmaster was a Filipino, Eugene Torre.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florencio_Campomanes started off as a quite excellent Chess player himself but became the only non-European FIDE head.
My father and some other UP Profs played chess a lot too.
Seems the culture of playing chess in the Philippines is all but gone now.
Millennials might be playing Warcraft etc. but I know zero about online gaming.
Chess, originally Persian, was strong in Russia even before the Cold War, countless chess strategies have Russian names, though there are some Spanish names in the classic books. Didn’t like my father’s chess books as much as his history books though.
Your point about strategic mindset being lacking in the Philippines is important though.
My hunch though is that a number of pre-1972 characters like Quezon and Magsaysay knew how to play the cards they were dealt well, but was this because they were honed by adversity like Revolution and WW2? But let’s NOT stray into politics. Electric fence!
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jos%C3%A9_Ra%C3%BAl_Capablanca was Cuban, just found out. But he played against Russians early 20th century.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aron_Nimzowitsch was a Russian Jew from Latvia.
Capablanca and Nimzowitsch are names that one will find in most chess books and practically all I remember from them. Oh well.
Sicilian defense is one that I dread, just found out it dates back to Italy, 1594.
“knew how to play the cards they were dealt well, but was this because they were honed by adversity like Revolution and WW2? “
I totally agree with experience being the best teacher also, Ireneo. stories i would venture is what frames said experiences, thus pure experience alone wouldn’t match with both one two punch. Wargaming is really hot right now, Marines especially are pushing that more Marines play games.
plus the experience honed in GWOT, I have no doubt any wars waged right now, the US will dominate. reasons for going to war though right now that’s the kicker, no good reasons to do so. the question is how to keep up with said expertise. cuz within 10 years you lose it. then its even steven again.
Oh, i didn’t know there was a Filipino so high up in that organization, Ireneo. I thought that was all Europeans (eastern europe) and russians.
As to the difference between regular Chess and Xiangqi (chinese chess), i think its mainly the end game. a lot more action in the endgame, cuz the generals are not allowed to see “eye to eye”. But there’s less pieces in play, unlike regular chess, so its a lot quicker to play, like 15 minutes per game. the metaphor of pawn being sacrificial too is not in Chinese, the pawns act more like FOB for the canons (ie. artillery).
Elephants are basically useless, i’ve noticed. but can guard very strategic points on the board.
here,
The black general is done. Cannot move because his only move would be eye to eye with the red general, no pieces in between and oh the general cannot leave his HQ or palace (that other red piece is a chariot, moves like a rook).
This is the youtube channel i watch: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCSGGgpESa7jAk0L8ccb0Gpg/videos
I recommend playing it here, its not really that hard to memorize the Chinese characters, but if its too much trouble then go with this website they did away with it:
http://www.xichess.com/
Lance, thanks for the link, the one with non-Chinese symbols for the pieces. Truly, you are diverse in your thoughts and internet browsing, Dr. Google. I bookmarked the link to try the game sometime.
While on games, let us not forget the Backgammon game. It combines skill and chance.
While still on the topic of games, I wonder who among our Presidential, VP, and Senatorial candidates indulge in games such as Classic Chess, Chinese Chess, Go, and Backgammon. [I am asking the question without further comment as to why or why not.] If this last paragraph violates the recent advice of our Editor, he can take out this last paragraph.
Yeah, no comment on who plays these games among the candidates, NH.
But I’m glad you ‘re liking it. Tell us what you think of it vis a vis Go and regular chess. I like how quick it plays, 15 minutes tops, quickest for me is like around 5 mins. and I feel like it was a fulfilling game and lots of variety and layers considered still.
the youtube videos help a great deal.
As for Go, I’m these days (kinda just plateaued) just doing tsumegos not so much full games, here: https://tsumego-hero.com/tsumegos/play/4844?mode=1
Arabs are always saying in sha’ allah , NH. If God wills it. So the backgammon aspect is related to this worldview, how Arabs see the world. dice rolls, while Israelis are always 10 steps or more ahead.
“… backgammon aspect i RELATED TO THIS WORLDVIEW, how Arabs see the world. dice rolls, while Israelis are always 10 steps or more ahead. ”
Keyword: WORLDVIEW: different worldviews spawns; different meanings for terms used metaphorically. In the Bible the set of hermeneutics used by the different readers brings you to different entries & destinations of belief & behavior.
I agree with this, sonny.
But also you gotta figure in that we’re all humans (Homo sapiens, some with more Neanderthal or Denisovan blood/genes, tho’ i dunno what that really entails).
So we all poop, pee, and puke the same; eat, drink, sex in pretty much the same manner too.
Which means given all that commonalities, nature/nurture sure will differ, trauma or perseverance will affect minds differently, and sure yeah worldviews and culture play huge roles too.
I’ve hinted above and below that because of the lack of chess, and prevalence of backgammon, which is kinda like Monopoly but with less items, that is heavily influenced by chance more than not.
Arabs minds, especially in its officers’ ranks and leaders, never really got exposed to the variety of WHAT IFs that games like chess/Go/wargames expose minds to.
These WHAT IFs, IMHO, IMHO… is related to capital H , Holy. this is the reason people say Go is a game created by the gods, because the What Ifs are virtually endless.
but i’m not saying chess/Xiangqi/Go are holy necessarily, because the “Meaning” of Eternity is absent, only that its somehow related. And Islam is about surrendering to the Will of God, which I’m proposing is related to the prevalence of backgammon, they like chance, thank god Arabs don’t gamble (or only a very few of them do),
otherwise Las Vegas, Macao, etc. would not have to rely on the Chinese. these people gamble like crazy, though their officers and leaders are big fans of Go and chess which makes all the diff.
In conclusion, i think we as people have more in common than less. but its in that less that produce losses consistent losses when fighting 4 against 1. what makes Israel special? tho am not trying to be reductionist here, i think chess has a big part to do with this consistency.
p.s.— absurd is good, it passes the time, which is what Camus just wanted to do.
Also, a big fan of the Botez sisters youtube channel, NH.
G. K. Chesterton anyone?
The Storytellers
https://christianhistoryinstitute.org/magazine/article/the-storyteller
ONCE UPON A TIME . . . a long time ago—though not so long as you might suspect—there was a man who believed that stories must be told. For after all, he knew that was what had happened in the beginning: stories were told. Once upon a time . . . a long time ago, stories changed the world forever: in the beginning; in the days of Caesar Augustus; and ever since. …
Back to chesterton.
https://www.chesterton.org/lecture-101-the-storyteller/
We are sporadic followers of Gilbert Keith Chesterton’s Fr Brown series on US PBS TV. He is a raconteur’s story teller and a popular Catholic lay theologian, a holy, saintly person. I place him among English writers in styles of Mark Twain, O. Henry & Robert Louis Stevenson (tusitala).
Love his raconteuring.
“and a popular Catholic lay theologian, a holy, saintly person. “
sonny,
I think i just discovered our difference here, we’re not disagreeing on definition, but in it s application, eg. what’s holy.
So as example, the Taliban didn’t think the Buddha statues at Bamiyan province were holy, thus they were able to bomb it to kingdom come. my point you don’t have to bomb it to kingdom come, but simply decide something is not holy , ie. arbitrary human definition.
I’m not saying this at all re my holy, I’m saying the act of storytelling is holy big wide definition, not the stories themselves, so not specific but more general.
“Not all meaning is necessarily holy, one can have different definitions of that.”
From Ireneo. but to further clarify, this is also my position, sonny. the act of creation is what’s holy, what happens after we can differ. eg. Joe’s ” I get that morality is fluid, drifting here and there based on self-interest or self-absorption, “
for example, JD Salinger no t holy; holed up in his barn garage slash office writing for writing’s sake , holy. His novels and short stories , we can disagree on this, I but think Bananafish is holy. but that’s my opinion.
https://foresthillshs.enschool.org/ourpages/auto/2016/9/7/48668131/Salinger%20-%20Bananafish.pdf (<<<< you guys be the judge.)
https://wikidiff.com/holistic/holy
===
the above is very different but you can interconnect them because
you have a dynamic dictionary
from Greek holos “whole” (“whole, well-kept”) + -ism.
This character of “wholeness” meets us everywhere and points to something fundamental in the universe. Holism (from [holos] = whole) is the term here coined for this fundamental factor operative towards the creation of wholes in the universe.
—————————-
karl, i never thought of holistic and holy as the same or similar, but I guess yeah whole is whole meaning maybe Spinoza’s God’s mind we can access via imagination thru creation of stories, thus holistic. holy is our accessing the whole. Interesting thought.
Told you you will find a connection.
Now we’re cookin’, sonny.
We have to agree what the definition of the big H , Holy , is first. I think we can agree that Holy, big H, is anything that human’s do, make, say, feel, to self or with others, that attempts to transcend or invoke Eternity— Spinoza’s from the perspective of eternity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sub_specie_aeternitatis ; now as a Catholic you will of course have a different notion of the big H, Holy. but here we can at least agree and stand on common ground IMHO with Eternity. you can equate “do, make, say, feel” with the Paraclete, that part doesn’t matter. so long as Eternity is involved in the thinking.
So I’m confident we can agree on Holy; now for holy, small h holy.
The Buddhas in Bamiyan province which the Taliban bombed were holy, because Buddhists pre Islamic (the statues were dated to around 570 AD) via these big ass statues were attempting to access the whole, the bigger H Holy. the Aborigines Dreamtime drawings in caves which they still today keep on drawing on continuing it even amidst erosion, holy because they are attempting to access the Holy, that’s Eternity. so i submit, that building the Buddha statues, drawing in caves, are all acts of story telling, that too is holy, stories may not be holy in and of themselves, but the act of repeating and sharing of stories is. from the perspective of eternity. no one writes or tells stories to be forgotten.
My point there’s no room for argument in the big H Holy;
but there is room with little h holy. if you notice since Wil’s articles i have an aversion to hagiographies, sure there may be saintly and holy people in the world, but unless i know them personally, I’ll not be too quick to render people humans as holy like you’ve just done with Mr. Chesterton above. concepts and ideas are what ‘s holy for me, trust but verify, and Holy is anything that attempts to access Eternity.
So,
Holy? we agree here , i’m sure.
holy? its fine if we don’t agree on this.
oooooops, sorry Joe forgot about the third!
Joe, pls say if LC & I becoming absurd. I don’t mean to be . 🙂
remember Irineo’s Absurdistan?
Yes. what was it all about? 🙂 I think Irineo’s sister coined the term.
you remember it correct. She was frustrated of the goings on in the Ph that is why she coined the term.
This is Holi, the Hindu festival of colors.
A defense of nonsense.
https://nonsenselit.com/g-k-chesterton-a-defence-of-nonsense/
Edward Lear has a book of nonsense.
https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Book_of_Nonsense
I suppose Camus thinks life is absurd because there’s no discernible teleos or purpose in it.
“a miracle” = Holy 😉
Kids today do not know about these games except maybe by watching it in youtube University.
https://www.spot.ph/newsfeatures/56398/10-pinoy-street-games-we-miss-playing
speaking of youtube university.
My kid lamented that he never had chem lab and physics lab due to the pandemic.At least he knew what he missed.
My son is a You Tube genius, mostly geography and wars. Also gaming. And piano. He went through the entire Victory at Sea series.
Nice!
An erudite person in the making, Joe! 🙂
Getting a good start, for sure.
ON UKRAINE
The Quantum of the Short and Long Terms. Here is what The Economist say about what the powers play on the Ukraine Board Game.
Our cover this week is written under the shadow of war. The Kremlin says that Russia wants diplomacy and that it is pulling back its troops from the border with Ukraine. Many Western analysts are convinced that an invasion is looming. As the crisis unfolds we argue that, war or no war, Vladimir Putin is harming his country. Plenty of observers would dispute that judgment. Without firing a shot, they point out, Mr Putin has made himself the centre of global attention, proving that Russia matters once more. He has destabilised Ukraine and impressed on everyone that its future is his business. He may yet win concessions from NATO for avoiding war. And at home he has underlined his statesmanship and distracted from hardship and repression. Yet these gains are tactical. Even as Mr Putin has won them, in a longer-lasting and more strategic sense he has lost ground, by galvanising NATO, pushing Ukraine and the West together and driving Russia further into autarky and repression. War would make all these things worse, and turn Ukraine into a running sore, bleeding Russia of money and men.
I believe it is difficult to bet on which camp is right in the long term.
Fukuyama wrote about the end of history sometime around 1990, when the Communist bloc collapsed.
The wars in former Yugoslavia proved him so wrong and that was just the start.
He must have caught a big egg on his face, figuratively — having had a generally positive reputation before that?
Fukuyama should have listened to the pragmatists that came before him.
He maybe wishing that democracy is here to stay and nothing can stop it, but he never dreamt of China. now with the power of hindsight all his excuses and of his apologists are in wikipedia under the heading of misinterpretations.
More explanations.
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2018/09/03/francis-fukuyama-postpones-the-end-of-history
the wiki entry I pointed out with the heading Misinterpetations
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_End_of_History_and_the_Last_Man
I’m with Bernie here, NH.
Jump to time stamp 8:50 for the meat.
“pushing Ukraine and the West together and driving Russia further into autarky and repression. “ Putin’s all in with China now , is all. Arctic route solid, or to be precise is not solid anymore, thus open.
Then CBDC , then tie it to China’s ,
“Russia’s central bank, the Bank of Russia, has announced that it has already conducted initial trials of its Central Bank Digital Currency (CBDC), often referred to as the “Digital Ruble”. As per the announcement, two of the banks from Bank of Russia’s pilot group have already connected to the digital currency platform and finished a complete cycle of “Digital Ruble” transfers between customers via mobile banking apps. The announcement also arrives at a time when the Russian central bank failed to shake hands with the country’s finance ministry on a comprehensive solution regarding cryptocurrency regulations.
“The Digital Ruble platform is a new opportunity for citizens, businesses, and the state. We plan that, for citizens, transfers in Digital Rubles will be free and available in any region of the country, and for businesses, this will reduce costs and create opportunities for the development of innovative products and services,” said Deputy Chairman of the Bank of Russia Olga Skorobogatova in a publicly available announcement.
It is assumed that the issuing of ‘Digital Rubles’, the opening of digital wallets and transfers will be the first stage of the implementation process. The next stage will imply testing the possibility of goods and services payments, as well as interaction with the Federal Treasury.”
https://gadgets360.com/cryptocurrency/news/russia-digital-ruble-cbdc-trial-central-bank-crypto-regulation-2771200
Amazing how you tie every single issue under the sun to CBDC.
The US Dollar is king, Micha. China’s is tied to it; so is Russia’s , here: https://www.rbth.com/business/332673-russia-china-us-dollar-america
But with CBDC not no more. This is the biggest game changing event in world geo politics. Russia and China will solidify their own CBDC network, thus shutting out US dollar dominance.
For the first time in history, Russia will be Asian facing. And why Putin can gamble so RE Ukraine. He doesn’t need the EU anymore.
But he’s fractured NATO already, just with all this bs. What he miscalculated, is that maybe (just maybe) Biden wants a war. We’ll see.
CBDC is connected to all this; and if CBDC is connected, invariably so is Bitcoin.
Money is also story telling. thus holy, but not Holy with a capital H. just the story telling part, eg. this is worth something, thus… IS. creation aspect is the storytelling part of money, Micha. see how I connected that too? 😉 now you have no choice but to join me and sonny , Micha!!! get in the water’s warm.
ps. and this is OT, but what do you guys know of Agnes Bailen?
https://mobile.twitter.com/agnesbailen (she seems open to CBDC and know something about Eternity, maybe? )
To the extent that CBDC will marginalize private commercial banks, I am provisionally in favor of its adoption.
But again, you’re always conflating CBDC with bitcoin which, as I previously reminded, is not at all the case. CBDC is NOT bitcoin.
Perfect, I like how you used the same word sonny used RE conflation. So here’s the definition,
“In logic, it is the practice of treating two distinct concepts as if they were one, which produces errors or misunderstandings as a fusion of distinct subjects tends to obscure analysis of relationships which are emphasized by contrasts.”
I assure you the whole exercise with Holy and blockchain technology is to go from absurdity to lucidity.
As per me and sonny’s discussion above, in which he also accused me of conflation, I submit that Holy is to holy; as Blockchain is to CBDC/Bitcoin.
What is of value and thus what we use as currency is a story. Stories that involve the subject of Eternity directly or indirectly (eg. JD Salinger’s Bananafish) is holy, but the act of storytelling in and of itself too is holy.
fiat currency is not CBDC, that is the only (the only ) conflation going on here, becuz nations cannot yet leave behind the concept of fiat because so much rests on this story, they are not yet ready to move on to a different story.
The next and different story is blockchain.
CBDC is on blockchain it runs on blockchain and is effecient because of it, w/out blockchain you’ll simply have status quo, with credit and commercial banks as in between, like online payments. This is not the case of CBDC.
Thus Holy is akin to blockchain, Micha, sure its a technology but it is the thing , the story, that people will agree on because blockchain has been proven time and time again to be secure. Trust = blockchain. Blockchain is the bigger concept that allows for both CBDC and Bitcoin, one centralized the other de-centralized. but both are on blockchain.
It s the same concept of Holy = Eternity, blockchain is what allows for all other subservient modes, like gian’s DAO, like Bitcoin, like CBDC; just as Holy allows for Bamiyan buddhas, Aboriginal dreamtime art, sonny’s sacriments, and Ireneo’s shared link of Holi in Hindu. its of the same stuff, hence the same.
CBDC and Bitcoin are of Blockchain, Micha. I rest my case , unless you will rebutt CBDC is not on blockchain, then we can continue further.
Trust = Blockchain
Holy = Eternity
Blockchain is merely a tool, a method for recording transactions across the board. The unit of account in the proposed CBDC will still be, in the case of the US, the dollar. Not bitcoin.
Individual citizens will still earn, buy, and get paid with dollars. Digital, yes, but still dollars. Not bitcoin.
It’s just the method of facilitating money transactions in broader marketplace that will change. It’s just the state claiming the digital space.
That’s NOT bitcoin.
We then agree that CBDC is on Blockchain , Micha.
So our point of contention is simply when will fiat (the old story) be supplanted by blockchain (the new story). And you’ve already answered it yourself here, Micha:
“To the extent that CBDC will marginalize private commercial banks, I am provisionally in favor of its adoption.”
It’s not just gonna marginalize it, Micha!!! Blockchain will render commercial banks and credit card companies obsolete!!! Once that illusion is taken down, the only difference between CBDC and Bitcoin is that one is centralized and the other is de-centralized.
But for all intents and purposes, the same. Consolidation is the name of the game with CBDC. not so with Bitcoin.
Once CBDC is adopted, bitcoin will be irrelevant, if not totally rendered illegal, as what China already did.
Irrelevant? I would bet it’ll be more relevant becuz of de-centralize aspect of it all, Micha. Precisely due to its de-centralize nature, it is not CBDC.
As to illegal, why follow Russia and China in this folly? I’m sure the Fed and the US gov’t will listen to the people (which is what democratic representation is all about) and let Bitcoin run unhindered, laissez-faire. Wisest move here.
So, relevant and legal. is the best assumption to make here, Micha.
Watch this,
Blockchain is a Trojan horse, authoritarians want it consolidators will attempt to control it, and they’ll adopt it & bring it into their domains (like a Trojan horse), only to realize that blockchain will de-centralize, that’s the point of it all. and Trust = Blockchain is not to be coopted. Just like no one really can coopt what is Holy. becuz Holy = Eternity (eg. sonny’s only Holy is Catholic stuff).
Trust = Blockchain
Holy = Eternity
Individuals are now sovereign, Micha. Free will is related to Eternity, thus Holy. that’s what Blockchain is , you boil it down its Trust.
How do you think is it feasible to have two competing and/or parallel money system?
If so, explain how exactly the bitcoin money system is going to work?
Going back to me and sonny’s discussion, Micha.
the same way Catholics and Muslims can live together, and in some cases even pray in the same space. Trust = Holy.
What’s Holy isn’t really exclusive, can be inclusive. So too CBDC and Bitcoin, one can be the main mode for payment for some people, while the other can be that for other folks. its when Catholics (or Muslims) start seeing exclusivity against one another, and attempt to annihilate each other then it becomes a problem.
My point, it doesn’t have to come to that. hence Trust = Holy. If CBDC is pitted against Bitcoin it’s only because some manufactured sense of exclusivity, meaning control, is being invoked. Authoritarians do this, Micha. Not the US though, its in our DNA to favor freedom. so when the Fed renders Bitcoin illegal,
Americans of all stripe will perk up and say what?!!! Censorship. we don’t care if there’s murals of candidates on private property here, Micha. we like freedom. that’s why Bitcoin will never be illegalized here.
Forget about Holy for the moment. Just explain how the bitcoin money system is going to work side by side with dollar?
CBDC will be created magically like in MMT at the Fed level, Micha. from there, disbursement. via UBI or some magical process, like right now thru ledgers, or chempo’s bonds. all magic. stories. illusions we use to trick ourselves. We agree this is how fiat works , correct? as per yours and chempo’s discussions here before.
Bitcoin is “mined” meaning different de-centralized process via 1’s and 0’s is creating Bitcoin, and once the cap is achieved, their sole purpose is to continue the blockchain still mining but no more creation (just dividing). This is how Bitcoin is created, also like magic, thus both CBDC and Bitcoin will be manufactured per each’s process of creation.
Both will end up in peoples’ e-wallets. From there, you use it as money. both CBDC and Bitcoin. either people will prefer one over the other, i dunno really i can’t fore tell the future. I’m just saying before you illegalize something, let it go see where it leads us. fiat is done for sure.
Of course the US can say illegalize Bitcoin, like China and Russia, but Bitcoin will simply continue. becuz decentralized. So in the end the proof of the pudding will be in the tasting, Micha. if CBDC is superior it will naturally supplant Bitcoin (but not before via legislation what you want done); and vice versa; but if people prefer both,
then they will use both. In your imagination what hinders this possibility ? that CBDC and Bitcoin why they cannot both co-exist? Nothing, right. But I’m banking Bitcoin will be preferred because and precisely because its de-centralized. but that’s just me with a PhD in Google prognosticating here, Micha.
My only point here is that both are valid. Thus both should be allowed to develop unhindered. and may the best system win. That is democracy, that is freedom.
Money system and the issuance of money is a monopoly of the state, corporal. Please remember that basic fundamental truth. You just cannot have a parallel money system, period. That will be challenging the supremacy and sovereignty of the state. Anyone advocating for such a parallel system do not know what they’re talking about.
As of now, bitcoin is nothing more than a commodity in the same way that corn or steel or gold or oil is a commodity – but it’s a digital intrinsically worthless commodity. Sure, there some very few people who barters with it in the same way that you could maybe barter a piece of land with 100 kilos of cocaine.
That kind of barter arrangement doesn’t make it a currency on equal footing with the dollar. To become a currency, you need a system of regulation, disbursement, and arbitration from duly constituted authority to settle possible conflicts. For that, you need the authority and legitimacy of the state.
1st paragraph that’s all supposition, Micha.
2nd… sure I’ll agree, but that’s why I conflate Bitcoin with CBDC, same same only CBDC can quickly make it normal due to power of the state cuz it has said infrastructure. The question then is blockchain meant to be consolidated like CBDC, and here I’m of the mind that answer is a big no, that’s why Bitcoin will supplant CBDC.
3rd “To become a currency, you need a system of regulation, disbursement, and arbitration from duly constituted authority to settle possible conflicts. “, this Micha is exactly why blockchain is the new story. there are no duly constituted authorities now.
Thus, your 3rd undermines your 1st paragraph. See what just happened? You shot yourself in the foot!
“…there are no duly constituted authorities now.
Are you seriously saying the US government and the state it represents has now already ceased to exist?
“the US government and the state it represents has now already ceased to exist”
You’re the one saying that, Micha!!! Vatican is still the Vatican even though they use EU’s euro. So if you remember on that other thread, our last dance Micha, we’ve already establish that the existence of the state does not rely on its issuance of money. Money can be outsourced.
Where in the world did I say the US government has ceased to exist corporal?
In case you haven’t noticed, there’s a question mark at the end of my previous post, corporal. It’s a question to your unsubstantiated, evidently false, categorical statement that “there’s no duly constituted authority now”.
That was your apparent conclusion to my “there’s no duly constituted authority now”, and that statement had nothing to do with state and money, but only of blockchain— the whole point of blockchain is “no duly constituted authority”, you can impose authority upon it ala CBDC but it’ll be more at home with Bitcoin. thus the preference for de-centralization of blockchain.
Can de-centralize and centralized money exist simultaneously? Yup. I’m saying Yes. Just that one will prevail.
Well corporal, we were talking about state monopoly of creating money system so don’t ditch a disingenuous “only to blockchain” crap.
Nonetheless, your going gung-ho over blockchain like it’s the next best thing after the invention of sliced bread is clearly misplaced. Blockchain is nothing more than a tool for recording transactions, a digital electronic equivalent of yellow spreadsheet used by accounting majors. Have you heard of anyone trying to monetize a yellow paper?
The fixation for it being de-centralized is also clearly misplaced. A de-centralized unregulated system is vulnerable to hackers – as what has just recently happened with those couple busted by the FBI. The authorities hacked the hackers’ blockchain. So there goes another myth crumbling down – the myth that blockchain is super secure and un-hackable.
Bottomline, bitcoin is a fool’s gold. Buyers beware!
Micha,
1. the Vatican uses the euro and is not EU, so monopolize and create is not a precursor.
2. Yellow paper, who’s being disingenuous now, Micha? Blockchain is technology that allows for trust. De-centralized trust.
3. “A de-centralized unregulated system is vulnerable to hackers – as what has just recently happened with those couple busted by the FBI.” Again who’s being disingenuous, Micha? the hackers did not hack Bitcoin, they hacked the people. ask karl, gian already explained it to karl— social hacking.
So again all wrong in all three counts!!! thus your conclusion is found wanting, Micha!!!
1. The euro, corporal, is a legitimate money system. The issuing Central Bank is located in Frankfurt. The Vatican using it is no more different than Italy, France, Germany and other countries using the same currency. Those countries, including the Vatican, have thus ceded their monetary sovereignty to the super state.
The central authority that makes possible the issuance of a legitimate money system is the European Union super state and that act of issuance is a MONOPOLY.
2. Technology is another word for tool, yes?
3. A pretender currency is not a stand alone system, corporal. So hacking is hacking whether it’s done on the system or on the people using that system.
Keep your score accurate, corporal.
1. The Vatican is not an EU member, Micha. So its use of the euro is arbitrary, meaning the Vatican can just as well use the US dollar or use Bitcoin, or Chinese CBDC. here’s a trivia for you, know why it was rejected membership to EU, because its a monarchy, you have to be a democracy to join the EU.
So it doesn’t matter who has monopoly of said money, the Vatican has no business using the euro, just as other sovereign nations use the US dollar , Micha. their use of it is arbitrary, purely their choice.
The Vatican has its own Central Bank by the way, its been in the news lately, and they’ve printed their own Lira, the Vatican Lira, before the euro.
So its simply arbitrary choice that they are using the euro. p.s. The Vatican is the country; the Holy See is the entity that runs its own Central Bank and its lands (to included the Vatican Observatory which owns Arizona’s VATT ), and the ruler monarch is the Pope. so they pay checks in euro and sign it the Holy See (not Holy as per mine and sonny’s discussion above, Holy See here is CPP to China as Holy See is to the Vatican, in which Xi and the Pope are its heads).
2. Nope. here’s its definition: technology
“the branch of knowledge that deals with the creation and use of technical means and their interrelation with life, society, and the environment, drawing upon such subjects as industrial arts, engineering, applied science, and pure science; the application of this knowledge for practical ends.”
So “tool” is a rather simplistic term use for blockchain, Micha. But then again sure i’ll allow it, the way a wheel changed the world; or rockets; or transistors , or CRISPR. technology.
3. “So hacking is hacking whether it’s done on the system or on the people using that system.” With that line of thinking, then fiat currency is equally questionable, even more so IMHO, eg. low labor costs and inflation, etc. thus fragile inherently , as per yours and chempo’s talks on here. Blockchain hedges that.
Again, your 1-3 is found wanting, Micha.
1. The Vatican is using a legitimate money system declared and authorized by its central authority. It has a functioning money system – borrowed, if you will – but a legitimate money system nonetheless that its citizens can use to settle transactions and obligations amongst each other. That’s the bigger point that you’re missing or maybe chose to ignore. Its subjects or citizens doesn’t arbitrarily use a primitive barter system. You do not board a taxi in Vatican and pay the taxi driver seashells while he demands to be paid in coconut shells.
Can its central authority declare tomorrow that its official unit of account will henceforth be coconut shells? Yes. Convenience, authority, and legitimacy are the words to remember. No place to invite chaos, anarchy, or confusion.
2. No need to waste energy on semantics and definition, corporal. Technology is another word for tool, we agree on that.
3. Why do you think fiat currency is questionable?
1. “borrowed, if you will –” So you agree that the Vatican can just as arbitrarily use another “legitimate” money like Chinese CDBC or the US dollar, correct? If CBDC , then why not Bitcoin?
2. Yeah, and I am saying blockchain is one of those tools that change the world, like the wheel, transistors, and CRISPR. its a game changing technology, there’s no going back to fiat now.
3. Again, fiat’s weakness you’ve already indicated via yours and chempo’s talk here, for one it relies on commercial banks and credit card companies. CBDC doesn’t , thus your affinity to CBDC. I’m simply saying Bitcoin is better than CBDC. but am prognosticating here (as a PhD in Google).
My point, if you’re happy with CBDC, then you’ll be even happier with Bitcoin, due to de-centralizing. which is blockchain. why everything hinges on your opinion of CBDC, and we already have that, Micha— you like CBDC.
Micha = CBDC (centralized)
LCPL_X = Bitcoin (de-centralized)
My stance is we gotta go with CBDC first, lay out the frame work. then Bitcoin.
Think it through carefully corporal. Suppose we are now in your de-centralized bitcoin regime where there are no duly constituted authorities (your characterization of blockchain) – it’s a free for all laissez faire. How do you avoid chaos, confusion, or anarchy? In other words, what’s to prevent another group of possibly disgruntled people using their own set of money system, say, a dog coin or banana coin or dragon coin or shit coin? No authorities, right? No rules and regulations governing the conduct and operations of the system. The state simply fades in the background, it withers away.
You think that’s viable? Or desirable?
If so, support the premise. Don’t just give blanket declaration like bitcoin is superior because I say so.
Give us your vision of how is this supposed to work, corporal.
“How do you avoid chaos, confusion, or anarchy?” TRUST.
What’s the antidote for chaos, confusion and anarchy, Micha? Trust, correct?
If blockchain can provide that, which its proven to have so far. Maybe the tweak is simply in proof of stake. but blockchain has provided verifiable Trust.
This technology gives us Trust. maybe CBDC will give us more Trust (doubtful due to gov’ts can be corrupted); or its POS that’ll improve it. but my point, blockchain is the antidote of what youre forecasting. p.s. — Ethereum is already at Proof of Stake.
Nope, not good enough corporal. You lack good viable support in your premise for something as radical as getting rid of the state and its duly constituted authorities. Trust? Already there were cases of hacking and criminal syndicates using the system to launder dirty money. How do you address hyper volatility?
This thread has gone on for so long and we’re just circling back and forth because there’s really no convincing argument in your proposal. There’s no clear answer on why a de-centralized money system is good for society in general.
“Trust? Already there were cases of hacking and criminal syndicates using the system to launder dirty money.”
With fiat that also happens, Micha.
“How do you address hyper volatility?”
Once there’s consensus there will be stability. these are simply growing pains.
“something as radical as getting rid of the state and its duly constituted authorities. “
Again that is not the intent, simply the logical end with blockchain. its up to the state to adjust.
“There’s no clear answer on why a de-centralized money system is good for society in general.”
CBDC is Blockchain, Micha. Bitcoin is also blockchain. blockchain’s point is de-centralizing. that is why the technology exists.
“there’s really no convincing argument in your proposal. “
My goal is simply to state the same for your proposal, which is to stay with fiat and stay with the status quo. Remember you yourself are not a fan of status quo, hence MMT. i’m simply going farther. is all.
p.s. — remember how karl got some cheddar cheese. Then chempo Kanye West’ed it saying nope blockchain is unhackable. then karl said you know chempo’s right actually. and i said, you keep the cheddar cheese, karl.
here’s a good comparison:
Bitcoin/blockchain is still nascent. The Holy See I’d put somewheres in front of Apple probably. its still very early. But the technology is holding.
Before proceeding further into the bitcoin topic and before degenerating the discussion into infantile score keeping, please clarify, corporal, why are you in favor of dismantling the state? What’s your rationale? Do you think anarchy is better than an organized system of society?
Why are you in favor of a de-centralized money system?
Not in favor of dismantling the state, but in favor of de-centralized money system. Because what happened in 2008 is set to happen again soon. fiat is flawed, CBDC might be the answer, but Bitcoin looks superior becuz its de-centralized. Blockchain IMHO is a game changer. I’m not for anarchy but I am for less gov’t (not no gov’t).
Well, you need to do better than that. Come up with a better rationale for de-centralizing corporal. The events prior and following 2008 can be avoided by better oversight and regulation. It’s the people that are flawed, not the system per se.
You saying bitcoin is superior does not make it so. It’s in fact a scam, a fool’s gold. And it’s not immune to people factor either, that is to say, people’s kinks, greed, and fallibility.
“and following 2008 can be avoided by better oversight and regulation.” This never happened, they tried. And why they gave stimulus checks to regular folks, too big to fail didn’t work. Something wicked this way comes.
“It’s in fact a scam, a fool’s gold.” And you saying this, doesn’t make it so.
I’m simply arguing come up with something better, and at this point anything aside from fiat is. So the potential for blockchain is there. I as a PhD in Google am saying Bitcoin is better (but people here know me as a PhD in Google, nothing more nothing less)
That Obama sided with Wall Street bankers instead of the regular working folks is already in the realm of politics. Nothing wrong with the fiat system. It’s Obama’s brand of politics which eventually gave us Trump that needs reforming. You are barking up the wrong tree corporal.
Yeah, and it was corrected recently with COVID, re stimulus checks for all. Still did not work. the system is flawed is why, as already explained, commercial banks and credit card companies, you said this yourself. by the way. Lack of TRUST.
Qualify your statements corporal. What’s with the stimulus checks that didn’t work?
stimulus checks to individuals were simply QE 2.0, Micha. and you’ve been on record here already disparaging QE. essentially , like QE banks/finance industry looked out for number 1, not the public good (which was the assumption). simulus checks per individual, like mine, i’ve not spent them yet, well i did get a new computer, but my check cards are still intact.
the Fed also did these simulus checks but for small businesses, to the tune of hundreds of thousands per business, and that was hacked (insider or simply negligence i dunno) but people with no businesses were approved, whilst the real businesses were not. unemployment checks in CA and other states where the legit needy were left with no checks and hackers/fraudsters got millions in checks not intended for them (check cards you see, 1 mail with pin, the next mail with card, well once you receive both, its yours! whether intended for you or not).
So it all boils down to middle men, Micha. with CBDC if you look at the graph above again, each individual would receive it directly, from CB to individual/merchant. fast forward to the Bitcoin infrastructure, you’ll not need CBs to issue– that is unmapped territory, Micha. but remember you’re for MMT because you don’t want the Philippine peso to be attached to the US dollar, again middlemen. you want a direct relationship between the people and their money.
CBDC is it; but go a step farther de-couple the CB from DC, and that’s Bitcoin. if you’re for de-coupling US dollar (thus US monetary policy), is it so much of a leap to de-couple the CB from the money, if blockchain provides for Trust?
And again the allocation of funds is in the realm of politics. If you want progressive policies then get people vote for progressive officials instead of the right wing neoliberal bunch in both parties. Change the politics so you can have people centered policies but you do not throw the baby out with the bathwater. You do not dissolve the state and plunge headlong into anarchy.
Unless of course that’s what you exactly want to do in the first place.
Breaking news now is Canadian police flexed their muscles and dispersed protesters in Ottawa. That’s the state displaying its monopoly use of force and legal violence when push comes to shove. Are you prepared to take on that?
It is not in the realm of politics, Micha, its in the very nature of the fiat system. You said it yourself when debating with chempo, the Fed makes money from thin air, the Treasury prints it, then sells gov’t bonds to “cover” said money (fiat money). chempo says not thin air there are gov’t bonds US treasury bonds sold to China, et al.
So essentially instead of gold/silver backing the US dollar, its the fact that gov’t bonds are being held by other countries whose int’l currencies are arbitrarily kept lower than the dollar (on purpose), this relationship is what’s backing the US dollar.
Well the jig is up since 2008, Micha. from the Fed, to Wall St. the financial sector, to Americans constantly taking out loans, following the fiat system of always running a deficit. Do you see? its not just a one off example, its the whole system built on borrowing. that is fiat.
The US can print its money, precisely because there are countries willing to buy our US treasury bonds, whilst deliberately keeping their currencies subservient to the US dollar to ensure profit, which in turn they use to buy US treasury/gov’t bonds.
System’s flawed , Micha. You yourself agree with this.
“That’s the state displaying its monopoly use of force and legal violence when push comes to shove. Are you prepared to take on that?”
There was a crowd, the state deemed it illegal gathering, thus used force to move said crowd.
Bitcoin and blockchain is digital and online, there’s nothing physical to move!!! its like saying turn off the internet. Impossible! unless you collude with the Sun to affect a huge solar flare/EMP event worldwide.
I was a bit paranoid with solar flares but per wiki they are harmless to humans, I was thinking hellfire from the sky.
Now the internet infra is still majority submarine cables.
A few sattelites here and there but most are still cables
You font need EMPs and flares.
A mega power shortage and mega water shortage would do the trick.
And that could happen.
karl, that would mean a major world calamity in which all discussions of money and currency would be all moot, we’d all be back to trading sea shells on the sea shore! LOL! that would mean the Philippines would be dominant. better than MMT.
No more fiat, no more crypto, maybe gold/silver (too heavy to move around). So let’s make sea shells it.
Seriously, this whole fiat system in which the US dollar plays the capstone role, in which all other monies play subservient roles but all still to ensure the US dollar has primacy (due to Brettonwoods/Jekyll island accords), is nearing its end.
Take away the capstone and everything collapses.
So CBDC is coming, the fiat system can still be in play, but why? Why go thru the motions of buying US treasury bonds if the US can simply renege (this was chempo’s by the way). that is the basis of this fiat system, karl.
It affects the Philippines totally. its the reason I was able to have so much fun on Mango Ave. and cuz research on Bitcoin/blockchain, I just recently realized how that is. fiat!!! remember Mango Ave is the big metaphor for Philippines.
I’m not just reminiscing , I’m talking about Philippines every time I mention Mango Ave.
From gulf wars to Sea of Asrov war. Wars like that can make us back to the barter system. Me against them if you are not with us you are against us, zero sum to less than zero negative vibes.
The allied forces are arming Ukraine, what’s next arming South Korea, arming the Philippines?
We will have planet of the apes future where the apes got sick of humans to become the dominant species if not hunger games.
“The US can print its money, precisely because there are countries willing to buy our US treasury bonds.”
This is as incoherent as saying I can drive my car in New York because a tiger in India was spotted crossing a river. Absurd to the max.
The ability to create money has nothing to do with other countries’ willingness to buy treasuries.
here’s a better graph,
Be careful with your description corporal because with or without foreign countries, treasuries get sold in-country and some will eventually be paid for in the secondary market by the Federal Reserve itself, the US government’s CB.
Another thing to remember is that issuing bonds is the conventional way of covering deficits but there is nothing to prevent the federal government’s financial infrastructure to create and directly spend money into existence altogether bypassing private commercial buyers and banks.
I’m just talking about geopolitics and how the US dollar has to stay on top, Micha. this is the illusion of fiat. fiat works only in relation to other currencies . Remember this is the reason why you want MMT, Micha.
“but there is nothing to prevent the federal government’s financial infrastructure to create and directly spend money into existence altogether” We’re both in agreement as this is MMT, and chempo would disagree saying you have to do all the magical stuff like issuing Treasury bonds. we’ve been this road before.
This is why MMT goes well with CBDC. But why go thru the motions of fiat, when as you’ve said you can simply will “money into existence”? CBDC does away with fiat. no need to issue Treasury bonds.
“But why go thru the motions of fiat, when as you’ve said you can simply will “money into existence”? CBDC does away with fiat.
Fiat currency creation is the foundation of MMT. What corrupts the fiat system is the coursing of the monies created through private commercial banks. And in this we are in agreement. Get rid of the middle men and inject the money directly into the economy through spending. CBDC might be one of possible methods to do this.
CBDC will not, however, get rid of the fiat system, unless we decide to go back to the gold standard.
Now we’re quibbling definitions, Micha.
fiat 1.0 = fiat necessitating Treasury bonds
fiat 2.0 = CBDC no more bonds, middlemen.
if we go back to gold, we’ll just have another Pres. Nixon speech ala 1971 decoupling money from gold again.
fiat 2.0 isn’t (is not) fiat, Micha— this is your mistake. you’re failing to see CBDC for what it truly is.
you’re still thinking 1971 post Nixon speech. Without borrowing, deficits and banks, you have something completely different. you have pure MMT now, which is why you love CBDC. CB/ central banks directly disburses to people and companies, like a faucet; then when inflation kicks in just tax away, and because CBs know exactly where to tax and how due to blockchain. MMT will go w/out a hitch.
My only quibble is that. CB knowing exactly where to tax is akin to surveillance via their DC.
Becuz of this reality now, de-centralized money will have a following. that’s it that is my only point here.
Ah, there’s a break. Take a break fellows.
Round like a circle in a spiral, like a wheel within a wheel. Never ending or beginning on an ever spinning reel…
🙂
Superwheel!
😆
🤣
After that “superwheel” video, this video item came next. It is Steve Jobs Commencement Speech at Stanford. Part of the break here, listen to Jobs:
Take a break.
Wordle 245 3/6
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We need to keep it rolling.(not trolling) Now back to windmills
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S030626192101093X#:~:text=Wind%20displaces%20far%20less%20emissions%20than%20typically%20assessed%20today.&text=Wind%20does%20reduce%20emissions%20but%20insufficiently%20to%20qualify%20as%20sustainable.&text=Policy%20must%20focus%20on%20developing%20low%20carbon%20dispatchable%20energy%20sources.&text=Policy%20must%20focus%20on%20systemic,on%20renewable%20energy%20per%20se.
Wind energy is said to be not sustainable when balanced by fossils.
So focus must be on sustainability rather than renewable per that abstract.
NH,
That Steve Jobs article has so many life lessons.
He was a dropout and had a series of unfortunate events.
Some he bounced back from including his first victory with cancer.
The only thing he did not bounce back from is remission.
Follow your heart, never settle, someday you will be right if you live each day as if it were your last.
Do not be consumed with dogma, other people’s opinions. Live your own life.
Precious and priceless and I almost decided not to click on the link.
Great summary, karl.
Thanks.
ooooops, this one…
All the good advices both from the dead and the living will be like I said: “cherry picked wisdom”
another advice: if your hand is sore from too much handshaking – take two paracetamol tablets. adult dose of 1000mgs of paracetamol will keep pain away for at least 8hrs.
Hey Marcos Jr will run out of excuses not to shake hands
Personally, I think Steve Jobs was an asshole, karl.
In my corporate experience, most of the top people evolve into assholes when they accumulate enough power to put a whole lot of others into the category of irritating inconveniences. A few do not do that. And even the assholes can be decent in some circumstances. In my view, most Republicans have Steve Jobs complex and most Dems fulfill the role of irritating inconveniences.
I had to laugh out loud. The term ‘asshat’ popped into my mind. Lovely expression.
We all had our asshole moments was he like chronic?
two big ones for me, karl.
1. His daughter Lisa, tried to say he wasn’t the dad in order to wiggle out of child support. Though that was mended in latter years.
2. And he kept anonymously visiting his biological Dad in Palo Alto, in order for him to serve him food. Though never announcing who he was. both Dad and son never bothered visiting each other once their biological relation became public.
Joe will tell you 1 and 2 aren’t really asshole moves, they are more like personal issues, but for me it informs his leadership in corporate setting, karl. that Jobs was the type of boss that held grudges and was mean personally to people.
Assholery alone I tend to forgive, I’ve worked with military officers that pushed hard to get the best from you, but were always there to ensure you didn’t fail. polite and professional always. IMHO that’s the best export of the US military, not weapons and warfare, but leadership.
Asshat for me is a dunce. No talent pretending to have talent; Jobs certainly had vision and pushed for that vision, so an asshole who got really good products on the market, but not a leader (nor asshat). I’d assume most Filipinos would be familiar with petty grudges and being mean due to this, many of their leaders are asshats for sure.
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karl,
There’s a story that I like of Steve Jobs told by some Zen buddhist monk in Palo Alto. i think i saw it in some Steve Jobs documentary interview of said monk (or a follower of his).
And is relevant to the blog and previous commentary above because it touches on Holy and technology.
I guess Jobs was really into Eastern mysticism, he’s gone to India in his youth, then heavily into Buddhism. So when Apple got started, he frequented a Zen temple near by. This Buddhist monk said that Jobs was really disciplined and did the work, but he was obsess of proof of enlightenment.
So finally, the monk said after so much pestering by Jobs about how he can prove that he was enlightened (i’m assuming to himself mainly, but could be for others too, some objective verification issue).
The monk told Jobs okay, show me something that you think would prove your enlightenment.
And so Steve Jobs was gone for quite a bit, then came back with some sort of tiny motherboard type device, with transistors all lined up. and the monk recalled how Zen and beautiful it was, but was himself unsure of said proof.
Rendering both individuals unsure. I think Jobs stopped going to the temple, due to this I am not sure.
But i’ve always imagined that Steve Jobs showed the monk the first iPhone internals. i’m sure done by Wozniak with Jobs supervising I’m sure. LOL!
The larger point is the pervasive culture of Silicon Valley always assuming their work in tech is somehow related to some enlightenment, instead of merely making products for products ‘ sake, like for example I don’t think Henry Ford cared whether his products were enlightened or enlightening.
Connection to Holy and tech, I (and speaking as a Luddite here) there’s no connection between the two. Physics/metaphysics. But appreciate that the monk said to this day (per the documentary), he was unsure. Very Zen view, LOL!
Thanks Lance, i value your thoughts even at times I appear overwhelmed by them.
On SJ,
We could still learn from the D heads and the A Holes.
Steve Jobs is indeed quite a character. But a genius at marketing — including marketing himself. He made a lot of people happy with their apple stocks, I believe. Including one here at TSH? 🙂
👍
Speaking of marketing, the marketing genius behind that superwheel commercial was a co-professor in one of my marketing subjects during my MBA days his name was prof Ding (I forgot the last name).