Senator Grace Poe and her impeachment remarks
[Photo credit: Philstar]
by crispinbasilio
As Sen. Grace Poe read out loud the executive summary of the Senate Mamasapano report, JoeAm wondered why she mentioned impeachment at all, when the report presumably made no mention of it.
This writer wondered, too.
The following might help put recent events in perspective…
Coincidence?
First, notice how the approval rating of Pres. Aquino was published on March 17, when it was conducted from March 1 to 7. Normally, results are released much later, about two months later, if memory serves. Results are usually accompanied by a reference-list of burning issues during the survey period.
Second, the 2016 election survey was reported on the same day. VP Binay topped the presidential polls and Sen. Poe came in second. In the VP category, Sen. Poe ranked first.
(The results of either survey are not being questioned here. Certainly, the approval rating of Pres. Aquino is expected to have fallen after the Mamasapano tragedy, albeit remarkably still higher than the lowest ratings of ex-Pres. Estrada and ex-Pres. Arroyo. And, although surprising, it is not inconceivable that VP Binay still tops the 2016 presidential polls, albeit with a shrinking margin. Moreover, Sen. Poe’s popularity naturally places her near or at the top of these lists.)
Third, also on the same day, the draft of the Senate report on Mamasapano was likewise publicized by Sen. Poe, before the signatories had affixed their signatures.
All three, one after the other. Convenient coincidence? Or was there a concerted effort behind it, perhaps to affect signature-gathering?
Message
For the purposes of this write-up, the reader is invited to consider the possibility that these are NOT a coincidence. The 3-point message to Congress then becomes:
1) Check out the approval and trust ratings of Pres. Aquino.
2) Check out who the front-runners are for the 2016 elections.
3) Check out the list of Senators who consider Pres. Aquino ultimately responsible for Mamasapano.
Over two-thirds of the Senate’s members have signed the Senate report, more than what’s needed in an impeachment trial. They will likely vote to convict the President. (This is the implication, regardless of whether they later correctly make the distinction between responsibility and liability.)
What won’t be discussed at length
This write-up will not defend why President Aquino exercised his presidential prerogative to limit the number of people involved in the sensitive Mamasapano operation to prevent leaks which had time and again sabotaged similar operations in the past.
This write-up will not discuss whether he was right to involve the suspended Gen. Purisima, who had the most knowledge on the years-long hunt for the terrorist, Marwan, and who also likely had top-secret information not available to the recently appointed interim head of PNP, Deputy Director Espina.
This write-up will not try to discover why Sen. Poe’s report demands the President accept responsibility, when he already did on Feb. 6, in his speech aired on national TV, where he also said he would “carry this [tragedy] to the end of [his] days.
This write-up will not attempt to divine Sen. Poe’s motives in saying in the report, among other things, that President Aquino should assure the families of the SAF 44 of help, incorrectly implying he has not done so, when not only has he assured them, he has in fact provided concrete assistance packages.
This write-up will not question if there is a script being followed, or a sinister motive, among notable individuals (Sen. Osmeña, ex-Pres. Ramos, even Sen. Poe again) pushing hard and repeatedly for an apology from Pres. Aquino, when no other president elsewhere is expected to do so for deaths resulting from similar encounters; when military/police commanders are the ones who receive medals when operations succeed, and are sanctioned when they fail.
This write-up will not belabor the point that a most-wanted terrorist, dubbed “the Bin Laden of Southeast Asia,” has been neutralized, and no longer poses a threat to thousands of innocent people worldwide, although sadly at a very high cost, in lives of fallen Filipino heroes.
Questions
Instead, we fast-forward to a scenario where Congress entertains the idea of impeachment, as Senator Grace Poe mentioned.
Important questions:
– Is the choice between Pres. Aquino and VP Binay a matter of who is the lesser of two evils? Or is it simply a choice between good and evil?
(Consider Franklin D. Roosevelt’s words: “I ask you to judge me by the enemies I have made.”)
– What will happen to cases which Ombudsman Morales may file against Mr. Binay?
(Remember that a sitting President is immune from suit. Also, it will certainly be argued that an impeachment case filed ag ainst Mr. Binay at that time can only be based on acts committed while in said position, not from his tenure as mayor or VP.)
– What will happen in 2016? Will there still be elections? And if there will be, and Mr. Binay runs and wins, will he step down when his term ends?
(Consider how Mr. Binay will face the prospect of post-presidency charges to be filed by the Ombudsman. Consider, too, recent events at Makati City Hall, with Mayor Junjun Binay defying the Ombudsman’s suspension order, and refusing to “give away” his office, implying personal ownership.)
– What will happen to his UNA colleagues, detained Senators Enrile and Estrada? What will happen to ex-Pres. Arroyo and Sen. Revilla?
(Recall that the much-mocked National Transition Council, which has recently called for the ouster of Pres. Aquino, is a joint project of personalities closely associated with both VP Binay and ex-Pres. Arroyo.)
– What will happen to the Philippines’ arbitration case against China, which was elevated to a United Nations court?
(Consider the deafening silence of the “Makabayan” bloc on Chinese incursions into our territory. No burning of China’s flag or effigies of its president, as opposed to the US or Pres. Aquino. Consider, too, their similarly-deafening silence on mind-boggling corruption allegations involving VP Binay. No rallies at all, and none of their usual costumes or stunts to ridicule him.)
– What will happen to the investment grade given to the Philippines by the Big Three global credit ratings agencies?
(Consider that, despite what detractors may claim, these are directly connected to Pres. Aquino’s sound economic policies and anti-corruption drive.)
– What will happen to the peace process? And to our countrymen in Mindanao?
(Consider that a peace agreement is the highest form of respect a Commander-in-Chief can pay to the armed forces who sacrifice their life in pursuit of peace, to protect us. Recall, too, that a peace agreement was reached during the Ramos administration, but certain provisions were not implemented by the succeeding administration, contributing to its failure.)
– What will happen to future appointments to the Supreme Court, Sandiganbayan, Court of Appeals, Commission on Audit, etc?
(Consider that presidential appointments reflect the appointing authority’s integrity.)
– What will happen to government projects, and how they are formulated, financed, implemented?
(Consider the “world-class” Makati parking building, the Alphaland-Boy Scouts deal, etc.)
– Who will benefit from a Binay presidency? Is it the Filipino people?
Attempts to impeach the President
To those of us who dread the specter of a Binay presidency via impeachment, remember that since we believe in democracy and its processes, we cannot later sulkily declare that Binay is NOT OUR PRESIDENT.
He may become that, if impeachment efforts succeed. There may be attempts very soon, with a desperation brought on by an incorruptible Ombudsman now visibly pursuing cases involving the Binay family.
And as you ponder all these, think once more of the incredible coincidence involving the two surveys and the draft of the Senate report . . . as well as Sen. Grace Poe’s remarks on impeachment . . . all arriving at the same time.
The Society of Honor by Joe America 
What I am hoping for is that Senator Trillanes talks to the press about the other points discussed in the executive session, particularly the role of the AFP in the incident.
There was no mention in the Senate report of the 300+ SAF troopers who were found idle and unable or unwilling to go back to reinforce their comrades.
Here is Trillanes’ on some details during the executive session:
http://www.abs-cbnnews.com/nation/03/20/15/trillanes-120-saf-men-refused-help-comrades
1. Not 300, but around 120 SAF were unwilling to engage the enemy when the responding army troops found them by the highway.
2. The grid coordinates sent by Napenas was useless because they were using Google maps, which is different from what the Army uses.
3. This is the most intriguing part: some PNP intel officers “wined and dined” some Army commanders the night before, to make sure they won’t operate.
Senator Trillanes comes across as the only honest man in the senate, the one interested in truths that others ignore for political reasons. Even “good guys” like Aquino and Angara would allow their President to be hung out to dry on the matter, knowing that the real cause for the deaths rests elsewhere.
Poe is getting more unlikable with each revelation. Fact finding in aid of legislation, eh?
this is too much
In the press conference, in reply to a question, Poe said PNoy could only be held accountable through impeachment. But she coyly wondered, on what grounds, “Gross abuse of public trust? Isn’t that a stretch? He had good intentions,” thereby washing her hands of it, after having planted the seed of impeachment.
She knew of this testimony then, intentionally withheld it from her report to set up PNoy, grossly abusing public trust.
Impeach Poe.
It sure seems to me she has betrayed the public trust. What are we to think about future fact-finding exercises? That they are always only POLITICAL and no one is looking out for the citizens?
Disgusting precedent, this Poe Report.
Shocking. Thank goodness for Trillanes. Wonder how Poe will defend her report now.
Trillanes is the one who said that the Filipinos is not yet ready for his brand of presidency. I’m liking the guy because he’s the one voice that wanted the truth to come out. This what my question was when the Mamasapano incident happened. Where were the 300 SAF troopers when their colleagues needed them?
If that is true that the AFP commanders were wined and dined the night before the Mamasapano incident by the PNP intel officers, then it is really the fault of the Napenas together with the PNP Intel Group to mount such an operation.
Actually, I do not understand why they had to wine and dine the Army commanders. So that all the credit goes to them?
I have that exact same question… I hope it’s just about credit. Because another possibility is sabotage, given the refusal of the SAF leaders to rescue their comrades. Why refuse if the PNP wants all the credit?
And according to Trillanes, as I heard it in one evening news, the coordinates given by Napenas was actually pointed at the location of the SAF (I forgot which SAF). If true, what could this mean?
According to Trillanes, Napeñas sent Google maps coordinates not compatible with the AFP coordinate system, so the location could not be determined.
Napenas was asking the AFP for artillery to be fired in that direction? Am I correct?
One report:
@bantay
I got the answer to this. Trillanes says it was to keep tabs on the army guys to make sure the Army had no operation there and that they knew nothing of the impending operation the next morning.
http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/680369/trillanes-wants-300-saf-troops-probed
Hopefully this new issue being raised by Sen Trillanes gains ground and put the Senate inquiry on hold indefinitely until the time questions are answered satisfactorily. I believe Sen Trillanes will not touch on this issue if he can’t back it up. Being a military man himself his source cannot be looked down upon.
Yes, agree. Thanks for the observation. Sen. Trillanes for sure rises in my evaluation of people of honor and courage.
I don’t think trillanes is credible of all senators, di ba identify din siya kay aquino/ syempre idedefend niya si aquino, we want the TRUTH , bakit hindi matangap ng mga ibang tao na ang hinihingi ng majority of the people is acceptance of responsibility, bakit umiikot ang mga explanation ng lahat: isa lang :>BEING THE COMMANDER IN CHIEF OF THE PHILIPPINES YOU ARE ACCOUNTABLE OF ALL THE THINGS THAT IS HAPPENING WITHIN YOUR COMMAND WALANG LABIS WALANG KULANG , ANG PROBLEMA KAY pnoy AY WALANG ACCEPTANCE SA NANGYARI MAY NAGKULANG SA OPERATION MAY LUMABAG SA BATAS NA GINAWA NG MGA MAGIGITING NA POLITIKO SO NAGKAMALI KA I ACCEPT MO. THE WAY THIS PEOPLE KEEP ON DEFENDING pnoy LALONG NAGAGALIT ANG TAO SA KANYA ” ACCOUNTABILITY” IS THE WORD OF ALL THIS THINGS PAG NAIPASOK SA MGA TUKTOK NG MGA KAALYADO NI pnoy YAN AT KAY pnoy EH DI TAPOS NA ANG BOKSING NA TO’…. MOVE ON NA! NEXT LEVEL PLEASE
@ mel..basa basa ka pa ng konti, ha para di ka mag trolling…read more, analyze and be a little more discerning…at di mo kelangang sumigaw…sakit kaya sa mata ng all caps
one of the best replies ever…
Indeed
Senator Poe, from a clan of actors and celebrities, is better than her mother Susan Roces–or even the late Cory Aquino–at playing the steely-eyed, clear-voiced Inang Bayan speaking truth to power. But her background is not unlike that of, say, Mar Roxas. Once elected into the executive branch, she will undergo the same punishing learning curve and inevitably make similar mistakes. And just about the time she gets the hang of it, someone, somewhere, will think up a way to put her in line for impeachment or EDSA 5, in order to clear the ground for the next election darling in 2022.
One very important information overlooked by the BOI and the senate is that Aquino ordered Purisima to inform Espina of the oplan.
*******
I have stared into the abyss and the abyss has stared back… and the abyss shifts and alternately shows the visage of Jojo, Elenita, Junjun, Nancy and Abigail.
The horror! The horror!
*****
;D An English major!
Edgar fears the horror, the horror, and socorro comes to the rescue.
“The horror, the horror . . . ” Heart of Darkness, Joseph Conrad, Mr. Kurtz’s dying words, summarizing what his life was like to dominate the headhunter natives so ruthlessly. Also uttered by the Marlon Brando character in the movie Apocalypse Now as the carabao is sliced and diced in bloody red at the climax of a surreal picture that was a lot like the real Viet Nam, thanks. It ought to be the Roxas campaign slogan pasted over a picture of a boy scout making off with the national treasure.
After one slogs through Joseph Conrad, Charles Dickens is a walk in the park.
This blog is like Hyde Park.
ps, Edgar has read every book on the planet, some of them more than once.
pps, and most of them he has committed to memory. The horror, the horror . . .
The guy reminds me of a medieval monk in many ways.
Well, I would never objectify Edgar as “the guy”, but would probably call him “my friend”, or “the Enumerator in Chief”, or “the heart and soul of the Society’s reasoned method”, and I think monk is also not quite right, as monks live in a cave. I’d opt for Obi-wan Kenobi, a magnificent, wise force hovering above the playing field with a view that the rest of us will never be able to match in a lifetime, for we are too lazy to read and too biased to reason.
Hope one of the visual creatives of the society endeavors to make this a gif!
Don’t worry,the lower house won’t allow impeachment……….I hope.
They are like flies to honey, shifting allegiances to whomever will be the next president, in their latest calculation. Before the Binay scandals erupted, many were prepared to jump ship to Binay. They stopped when he got into trouble about the garage.
This article just nailed it for me, the strange feeling I got when reading the section considering the AFP role, which was merely a few paragraphs long. Huh?
Following that is the commentary on the failures of the cease fire team. Just a few short paragraphs, then dismissal. Huh?
Now it makes sense. Poe including full assessments of those events, and the lessons learned, and the legislation needed, would distort from the true purpose of the document, which goes on for page after detailed page, about President Aquino’s responsibilities. While discounting his prior admission of responsibility. To include AFP and cease fire team failings would suggest there ARE culpable players in the deaths other than Mr. Aquino.
So shrug them off.
Adding to the sense of manipulation are two additional points:
Poe’s reading of a DRAFT report for public consumption is highly unusual and sets a dangerous precedent that any senator can put his product in the public arena before contrary views can be incorporated.
Following right on the heels of this report will be large public marches demanding impeachment or resignation.
I really like your site joe. The problem however is, it is not reaching the masses. If you visit other sites, you will see how short sighted they are (I do admit that I often let my emotions take over for a while but it usually subsides and reason takes over). I try to bring what I learn here but when I try to voice out an opinion in other sites, it usually gets thumbed down so much that the comment doesn’t show anymore lol. Also, a lot of the masses don’t have internet connection. So their opinion greatly differs (e.g., They still wish to vote for Binay because of free medical, etc.). These are the drivers, carpenters, taho vendors, janitors, etc. which makes up the majority of the voters.
That is not just my problem, it is the problem of every educated and proper soul who does not want a Binay presidency. He controls the local word of mouth through his pipeline of loyal syncophants, sister city mayors and provincial governors. He has bought their loyalty, and they do the lip-blogging in local communities. The only thing that is likely to stop him, based on the latest poll, is the Ombudsman.
My target audience is opinion-makers.
That should be the problem of every patriotic Filipinos who want the best for the country. Let us do our part in gently correcting the misconceptions or misinformation fed to our respective circle of influence – friends, relatives, co-workers and household helps. If only some patriots who are great opinion makers will go public via radio, TV and social media, that would make a great difference.
I’m disappointed at Nene Pimentel, Osmenia, Saguisag, and Joker… where have all their principles gone?
AppRently they got d same disease that binay has
I am of the opinion that we need to make a citizen’s news paper in tabloid form and in english and the local dialects. A modern mosquito press. Guys we need this now.
Maybe even with some pages in komiks form to summarize major issues – like for example the Senate Mamasapano hearing. There is an important SAP magazine called E3 which heavily criticizes McDermott, Plattner and Hana with a comics summary at the end.
Being Pinoy and lazy sometimes, I often just read the komiks summary, or read it first and laugh especially at the crazy way McDermott and Plattner are caricatured then read the more detailed articles.
Yep, Filipinos path of least resistance.
This works well with your initial wiki proposal.
We need a great communicator that will explain things to the people. A cartoonist, a radio personality, a tv commentator and a documentarist.
A TEAM is needed. Different people with different talents. Thinkers and integrators. Constructive mareklamo people. Communicators who are good at speaking, writing, documentation, jokes and more. System administrators and content managers.
Parang SAP iyan – you need integrators, basis people, module specialists (FI, MM, …) plus project managers, delivery managers, support managers and key users.
My wiki proposal is only deferred, not shelved. The idea needs time to mature.
Besides I would only start it if there are enough volunteers. My experience having been a head of a Filipino overseas association has taught me to be careful.
You get all the work and ALL the blame if you are not careful. Plus the typical conflicts between different ethnic groups PLUS educated vs. worker – sounds familiar.
A John Oliver pinoy equivalent will do a lot of good (i recommend looking up his last week tonight youtube accnt).. I think Brod Pete fits the bill
I use to think that too but I’ve come to the conclusion that Filipinos still do not get satire well.
I have a blog coming out that recommends a government owned daily. Scheduled Sunday. The problem with print is that it is hard to make it financially, to have reporters in the field, buy the paper stocks, have a distribution system. The charter for state television and radio gives stations their editorial independence. Given that Philippine media are ethically challenged and sensationalist, and not supporting the democratic need for good information, it makes sense for the state to provide it.
Then the problem is increasing their reach and coverage. I’d argue that we need a form of socialized news like socialized housing. In paris the current mayor implemented some form of rationing/price to prevent pricing out the middle and lower classes. In this case the we need to implement a sin tax for media. Since their is outsized returns from tv ads we can create a law that would require advertisers to buy a minute of air time from public stations for every 100 minutes they buy from for profit stations. Of course if we cannot have a trustworthy judicial system how can we expect to keep the government news stations impartial? A problem for another day.
Part of the problem is the Philippine media are self-regulated. There is no “Federal Communications Commission” with the authority to impose public service obligations, or enforce ethical journalism. Some argue that the Philippine media are free for lack of regulation, and that regulation is just another government headache. Given that stand, then there is no foundation for complaining when stations have 50 minutes of commercials during a Pacquiao public television presentation. No foundation for complaining when commercial volumes are turned up louder than programs. No foundation for complaining about running reports on network stars as “news”.
So we get, instead, Right of Reply legislation attempts, which let individual citizens of power control content, if they don’t like how they are portrayed.
It’s a bit of a mess.
Subsidies for locally organized citizens media would be an idea.
Total impartiality is nearly impossible. BBC is a rare example. In practice, German public broadcasting strongly depends on what channel you are talking about. ZDF is known to be close to the incumbent government, even if it has a strong Christian Democratic tendency. ARD is more Social Democratic in tendency. Bayerischer Rundfunk is dominated by Bavaria’s ruling party, the Christian Social Union which is deeply Catholic, while Westdeutscher Rundfunk is heavily influenced by the trade unions which are strong in industrial Nordrhein-Westfalen. You need diversity and an informed, discerning people. Before World War 2, tabloids roused the rabble and contributed to Hitler’s rise to power.
“There is no “Federal Communications Commission” with the authority to impose public service obligations, or enforce ethical journalism.” Or something like the British press council, or the Deutsche Presserat – but both of these come from the press itself.
Again we have another input for the topic of political maturity – a responsible press is definitely part of one of the checks and balances, plus an informed populace.
“The charter for state television and radio gives stations their editorial independence.” Similar to BBC which is excellent, or German public broadcasting, which has proportional representation of all parties represented at federal and state level, respectively.
More on public broadcasting around the world here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_broadcasting
Thanks, that is a very excellent example of what I’ll be arguing for in Sunday’s blog.
Maybe you should make it clear that you do NOT want something like Bulletin Today during Marcos times, now again the Manila Bulletin. Hardly anyone believed that rag.
Sadly, this is true. In an Inquirer article last Sunday about the “fiesta” then ongoing in Makati, an old woman said she was there because Binay did great things for them — free hospitalization, free movies, cake and allowances for senior citizens, etc. Then the report said the woman however acknowledged that the corruption charges could be true.
So the strategy against Binay is:
1. find out what in his program makes him so popular with the common people
2. Adapt counter-strategies so that the people see that one also has an answer
Count Otto von Bismarck (whose 200th birthday will be soon) instituted social welfare and medical insurance reforms in the 19th to counter the rising Social Democratic Party.
He was successful, and his system is used until today in Germany, it has shielded the country from the worst problems of the global financial crisis and the Euro crisis.
@PinoyInEurope: Re Binay, the best way to stop a game is to expose it. The free hospitalization, subsidized education and scholarships in Makati were already there long before Binay came to be OIC and, later, mayor. These benefits were initiated by past mayor Nemesio Yabut. My wife was a “Yabut scholar” in high school. She had been living in Makati since grade school until the year 2000. Scholarships and subsidies were, and still are, funded by 20% of real estate property taxes. It says so at the bottom of the tax receipts. In all of the 15 years we lived in Makati, I had always been told or informed that the free/discounted hospitalization at the Ospital ng Makati was (but I don’t know if it still is) by the Makati Medical Center to the tune of twenty million pesos per month plus pro bono services by its doctors and staff. Now what do we call the act of taking credit for someone else’s work? In all of his 2010 political infomercials with the slogan “Ganito Kami sa Makati”, he never gave any credit whatsoever to the management, doctors and staff of the Makati Medical Center nor to the Makati property owners who paid annual real estate taxes. He took all of the credit for himself, despite most, if not all, of Makati residents’ awareness of his corruption, which was an open secret, as tales of his “exploits” were told and retold in coffee shops, offices and at street corners.
Thanks: good information.
Nonetheless the social services aspect is very important for getting the masa vote. And would make the Philippines a more humane country with more equal opportunity.
Mike, you should disseminate this info to more people to enlighten those who do not know.
I agree. Those who owns printers and computers living in places heavily populated with bobotantes can help by printing copies of blogs from this site and disseminate them or post them in the front of their gates or passageways. I believe there will be lots of volunteers because Filipinos, just like the Americans are inherently caring.
“This article just nailed it for me, the strange feeling I got when reading the section considering the AFP role, which was merely a few paragraphs long. Huh?
Following that is the commentary on the failures of the cease fire team. Just a few short paragraphs, then dismissal. Huh?”
Then we have to fill that in. An interesting aspect for me to investigate.
“To include AFP and cease fire team failings would suggest there ARE culpable players in the deaths other than Mr. Aquino.”
The report clearly identifies three possible culprits:
– MILF
– Purisima
– Napeñas
Aquino’s RESPONSIBILITY is of course also mentioned, IMHO correctly.
The MILF was criticized for not being forthright, and the BBL was criticized for being biased in favor of the MILF. The BBL is a part of the Aquino line of authority. Purisima and Napenas are a part of the Aquino line of authority.
AFP is not a part of the Aquino line of authority for the way the operation played out, nor is the cease fire team, an independent operating unit. Both could easily have been pointed to as complicit in the failing of the mission, but were basically shrugged off. Look at the way the American in Napenas ops center was handled. He likely was the only guy who knew the locations of everyone, asked for artillery, and was rebuffed. The Senate investigation does not follow this lead to question Pangilinan, but instead criticizes the US for being too operational.
Yes, in a desperate attempt to save US lives. If that is not whitewash, I don’t know what is. Here we have a glaring case of failure to act on available information because of . . . of . . . Pangilinan’s pride?!?! Well, of course. Finding Pangilinan complicit in the deaths would remove Aquino from the equation.
Cayetano gets it, I think, which is why he would not accept Pangilinan’s appointment yesterday, until the investigation is finished.
It is the overt omission of important information from the report that is the problem. Not so much the holding of Aquino responsible. Aquino has already said he is responsible.
“Cayetano gets it, I think, which is why he would not accept Pangilinan’s appointment yesterday, until the investigation is finished.” Good. Shows that the Philippine Senate has many good heads after all. Poe is a good head, but possibly partial. Checks and balances.
“It is the overt omission of important information from the report that is the problem.” Yes it is. But I do see a lot of relevant points in the report, and salient arguments.
“Aquino has already said he is responsible.” Good. We’re getting there.
If indeed the American in Napenas’ ops center was “the only guy who knew the locations of everyone, asked for artillery, and was rebuffed,” and if it was clear that artillery would likely help to protect the SAF-PNP caught in Mamasapano, as well the civilians who ended up dying along with them, then one would like to know why the artillery was not used. Turf war between the PNP and the AFP overriding all other considerations? Kneejerk refusal simply because it was an American who pointed out that artillery was called for? Misplaced nationalist pride that, ironically, was willing to sacrifice the lives of fellow Filipinos?
Right. A useful inquiry would get the Roxas, Gazmin, the American(s), Pangilinan, Napenas, Espina, and Catapang in a room together, and go over what the American(s) knew, why Pangilinan said no and what happened then. And why artillery was not used when even the AFP got shut down by the rebels. And, for me as a former artilleryman, I’d like to know if they had time fuses available to shoot white phosphorus in an air burst. I admit the Napenas plan was bad, but a lot of battles go wrong once the fighting starts, and the frozen AFP to me seems either incompetent or negligent. All I’ve heard are excuses that just don’t make sense.
The guy I mentioned here did not make excuses, he acted and was also AFP:
https://joeam.com/2015/03/19/senator-grace-poe-and-her-impeachment-remarks/#comment-114281 – one of those our clan is very proud of and proof that not all Filipinos are hesitant bunglers. But that is enough of clan pride and Pinoy pride for today Joe. 🙂
But then again, those were the Cory years with a lot of idealism and fresh hope.
Not the bitterness and unjustified disappointment that the Philippines is sinking into now.
The spirit of the February revolution has now turned into spitefulness and vindictiveness. 😦
From the Associated Press news report:
“One of the Americans reportedly ordered a military general at one point to fire artillery to support the embattled commandos but the Filipino commander refused to do so in disgust, said the report, without identifying the American or his unit.
“‘Do not dictate to me what to do. I am the commander here!’ the Senate report quoted the general, identified as Philippine army Maj. Gen. Edmundo Pangilinan, as saying.”
Yes, strange that the Senate chose to criticize US engagement and let Pangilinan off the hook, eh? Meanwhile, they turn their guns, page after page, on President Aquino.
@Joe this is especially jarring since there was a failure on two countsthat is usually disregarded both of which you have questioned since the beginning.
When the fighting began why was there no sense of urgency from the military. No get me the president I have to report this in details right now mode from general Pangilinan?
Why didn’t he fire artillery? Was there an order? If there was then pitchforks are in order. If there wasn’t what was his thought process?
“AFP is not a part of the Aquino line of authority for the way the operation played out, nor is the cease fire team, an independent operating unit. Both could easily have been pointed to as complicit in the failing of the mission” Get your point…
HEARINGS, INQUIRIES, and CONVENTIONAL WISDOM
Congress’ decision to resume Mamasapano in April hearing will be a waste of time.
It may yield the same result. It’s a political blackmail to the president.
Nothing was mentioned regarding our anti-terrorism campaign. While Marwan is dead (DNA confirmation by the FBI) we still have to capture Usman.Marwan has been hiding in the PHL since 2003 as reported & nobody asked why it took the authority several years to capture him.
Who will be responsible for letting Marwan enjoy his vacation here in the PHL since 2003 & allowed him to show his talent (bombing).
It has been my position that ‘they’ have been exposed after the Mamasapano massacre.
And it was very clear for several times Gen.Napenas claimed that ‘they’ can’t be trusted with the issue. It was only Sen.Angara who mentioned distrust among the institutions involved. Not just the PNP-SAF, and I would say that the US also didn’t trust them in getting Marwan.
These on-going hearings don’t even show wider view on why Oplan Exodus distrusted them.
This site will show one reason why.
http://www.gmanetwork.com/news/story/454445/news/nation/pnp-to-probe-alleged-military-turnover-of-saf-guns-to-milf
Clearly, they are trying to save the agencies as respected institutions.
So conventional wisdom pinned the president.
Media did not appreciate the president’s admission of responsibility for the operation and
politics wanted more by blaming him for the fallen 44.
They don’t like to see the obvious. With or without coordination they must arrest Marwan.
Oplan Exodus is our anti-terrorism campaign and the fallen 44 were massacred by the terrorists (Marwan coddlers).
FIGHTING and SPENDING FOR PEACE
The all-out-offensive against BIFF (& other groups as they claimed) is now on its third week.
They reported several casualties but still no Usman…one of the main reasons for this all-out-offensive.
Thousands of civilians are still displaced.
This is additional social welfare expenses for the government and it’s going to be huge.
And the military fire power and ammunition require replenishment after this.
With their resources in full use, the military is still without Usman.
And the arms traders (legal or underground) are definitely earning a lot.
This offensive is expensive.
RISE OF THE DEMAGOGUES
Sen.Poe was performing well before reading her draft report.
Misguided…maybe…but just like performing a scene in a telenovela or an indie film, somebody has to shine.
While some media members are trolling the issue, it’s still disturbing to see that most are driven into mob rule.
Flattered with her ratings going up, Sen.Poe is an amateur who is making big damage with her premature delivery of report being misinterpreted.
And the surveys…this article hit the bull’s eye.
The President’s opponents were probably at the same wavelength that this is the perfect time for a blitzkrieg against PNoy.
I do believe there will be calls for impeachment but it will NEVER prosper.
There are more educated lawmakers present in the Congress and this will help ease the tension.
They can try…but the public will still be able to see who are these people trying to put down the president.
The NTC,the Mitsubishops,the opposition,the Cojuangcos,PDAF stars,trolls,haters,the militants,& etc…
All of them are just fueling the emotion of the issue…
More power to you Joe, to the writer of this article and to this site.
Thank you, Edgar. I know crispinbasilio is tracking the discussion but is unable to participate.
Trust is issue number one. It should have been the main highlight of the Senate finding, not President Aquino. How much more constructive, a learning of lessons about trust, and figuring out how to build it. I suspect the BBL would not have been so sharply criticized had trust been the learning point.
“They don’t like to see the obvious . . .” It is hard to discern from all the noise what the main cause is, ignorance or political advocacy muddying the water through the tabloids, and through Binay’s chain of syncophant sister city mayors and their word of mouth support for the crook and liar. I wonder if there are scout merit badges in the Philippines for lying, cheating and thieving.
I hope you are right in your optimism on the President not being impeached. I do think President Aquino could be doing more to become master of this situation, and it is festering through neglect.
“I hope you are right in your optimism on the President not being impeached. I do think President Aquino could be doing more to become master of this situation, and it is festering through neglect.” Just wait. He is traumatized in many ways by his personal involvement in Filipino politics (I can relate to that very well, I’ve been there and could heal far away) and has the arrested development that many of us Filipinos have – immaturity.
BUT he could mature suddenly, exorcise his demons, come out and turn things around.
If he doesn’t though, things will go on without him, for better or for worse. I am optimistic, but careful. Hope for the best and prepare for the worst, like my old man always said.
“Poe’s reading of a DRAFT report for public consumption is highly unusual and sets a dangerous precedent that any senator can put his product in the public arena before contrary views can be incorporated.
Following right on the heels of this report will be large public marches demanding impeachment or resignation.”
Distributing a draft via Internet is even more unprofessional of Grace Poe, I actually thought more of her – now that Trillanes came out with his statement my view has changed. Anyway I will read and think more and write less in the future – still have a lot to understand.
This just in. Reports coming in says around 10 senators signed the report with reservations. Media not properly reporting this. Coincidence?
Poe’s presentation of the report in draft form makes it APPEAR that the senate has agreed with her. Obviously, they don’t. It was unusual to make a presentation in draft form, and one wonders who encouraged her to do that? Osmena, Escudero, Binay? A green senator usually would not be so bold as to break with convention and good practice. I sent a tweet to Majority Leader Drilon asking why she was allowed to do this, but I don’t really expect an answer.
I just got “curiouser and curiouser”
Who is Grace Poe’s chief of staff, staffers and advisers? Who does she rely on when discussing these things aside from her fellow Senators?
Since I worked in the Senate before, I know that there is a certain degree of influencing one can do when writing committee reports.
I don’t know. The lady talks transparency, but is one of the most hidden of all political players. Her motives are secret, her public statements conflicting. In presenting the report, she spoke about impeachment and suggested there were legitimate reasons for it, but on her interview this morning, she was talking about how hard it is to be critical of her good friend President Aquino. Then why did she speak to impeachment? It was not in the report and I’d guess not even discussed in the Senate!!
Until she prove otherwise, I think she is a political snake, the kind with two heads.
“The lady doth protest too much.”
or a lady janus, with 2 faces….but more likely, a serpent with a forked tongue..
The Diabolical Trese
Since Poe’s drafting by the Liberal Party in its senatorial slate in 2013, I have always doubted her loyalty to the President. Her adoptive dad, FPJ, was a Marcos loyalist and so too is Susan Roces. Add to that the persistent rumor that she is the love child of the late unlamented dictator with actress Rosemarie, Ms. Roces’ younger sister. Blood is thicker than water.
I would like to share a comment that was made to my facebook page regarding the prior blog because it displays the way output from the Senate COULD have been done in a positive, unifying way, instead of a divisive political way:
“Cristy B. Hey Mr. Joe… thanks for sharing this good article. Just want to dig deeper on the planning process that Gen. Napena’s used to create the Oplan Exodus. After listening to him in the radio/TV and observing this whole drama, I felt that Oplan and the fallen 44 was a victim of ever dangerous “groupthink”. Oplan Exodus’s planners underestimated their enemies in the first place and like what the article enumerated has lots of weaknesses and loopholes. To move forward then, it is imperative for the PNP and AFP to learn from this mistakes of this oplan exodus and look deeply at the way they plan things. In order to upgrade the planning systems in the military/police, I suggest that the PNP/AFP hierarchiesy together with the academia to really un-bundle the planning system/processes – like to know how they are able to build scenarios, how they are able to grasp and come up with the situation analysis, how they interact with one another and synergies, how they are able to put questions at the table and how it is resolved, how they package their plans, etcetera etcetera. I like the way the investigation of the Columbia Space Shuttle disaster/tragedy was handled by US authorities, zeroing on the way planning and interaction were done and culpability of the personalities involved in the planning.”
Thank you Cristy, for the excellent example of how to make 67 lives mean something because we do not want it to happen again.
“In order to upgrade the planning systems in the military/police, I suggest that the PNP/AFP hierarchiesy together with the academia to really un-bundle the planning system/processes – like to know how they are able to build scenarios, how they are able to grasp and come up with the situation analysis, how they interact with one another and synergies, how they are able to put questions at the table and how it is resolved, how they package their plans, etcetera etcetera. I like the way the investigation of the Columbia Space Shuttle disaster/tragedy was handled by US authorities, zeroing on the way planning and interaction were done and culpability of the personalities involved in the planning.”
Thank you Cristy, for the excellent example of how to make 67 lives mean something because we do not want it to happen again.”
Now Joe, THAT is what I meant with lessons learned. Good that there are people who are less abrasive and much more well-versed than me in expressing themselves. Columbia is a VERY good example of a professionally conducted post-mortem.
It was indeed refreshing to read her comment, versus all the blame casting that has been going on across the nation.
Yes and it frustrated me somewhat they my attempts to be constructive – in an aggressive way I admit – were seen as part of the blame game.
– Mature societies analyze their mistakes and learn from them, then move on.
– Immature societies either pretend problems don’t exist OR look for culprits to blame.
I do not see at as disloyal to criticize the President. He also needs people to keep him straight from time to time – not that I am saying he is gay or something and who cares.
One of my general uncles played a major role in preventing the big 1989 coup attempt against Cory, and it hurts when people misinterpret constructive criticism as disloyalty.
Before the National Defense College sponsors a monthly meeting with the academe, retired AFP officers,historians and brain storm. If only they insert the PNP and retired PNP into the mix and expand policies beyond the DND.
http://www.ndcp.edu.ph/ssg.php
The Philippines needs something like the Munich security conference (where all the Western powers meet in late winter) to discuss important security issues. Put together the best heads the Philippines has: Almonte, Filler, Alunan, Gazmin etc. to brainstorm. Same thing for economic matters: 2-3 days in Bonifacio Global City with local heads like Mar plus top Filipino pros from all over the world. Network and exchange ideas. We have TALENTS.
Very obviously, this hasn’t become just about the whole Mamasapano shebang anymore. If it was, then we would have grieved our loss, learned our lesson, and moved on.
But no, the enemies of the President have seen that he has been politically wounded and will try to go for the kill in much the same way those Muslim rebels finished off the wounded SAF troopers.
The Grace Poe fandango energize the enemies of the President.
Nail on the head.
Clearly, the enemies of the President is taking advantage of the issue. Sadly, this are the same people who will not even lift a finger to protest Binay’s blatant issues of corruption.
We cannot go back to the norm where corruption is accepted, because anyway, everybody does it. We cannot go back to the rule of law that is dependent on who pays the higher fees to the justices.
If GRP energizes the enemies of the President, could it be that she is one of them?
I get very confusing messages from her, which ought not occur if she has one straight path and agenda, honesty and well-being of the Philippines. I’ve lost trust, basically.
I expect an impeachment complaint to be filed later this year by the minority. They have nothing to lose and everything to gain so for them it’s worth trying. Who will openly take which side remains a question. Despite survey results showing growing popularity of poe and binay for the 2016 race, a survey from the same says that majority of the people don’t want the president to step down before the scheduled expiry of his tenure. Knowing binay, he is not inclined to make a move this early.
It would be interesting to see who takes sides. The House will evidently try to hold hearings on Mamasapano again. I wonder if they can control the mob this time.
There won’t be any mob. A lot of emotion I am sure. But NOW I believe it is just the chess game of different players placing their figures for 2016. Chess used to be about cutting real heads off. Philippine politics is maturing before our very eyes.
The nation is in the process of self-examination and is doing it very well – the coup d’evil did not happen and there will IMHO be no impeachment this time. Just growing pains.
I agree that the Philippine politics is maturing despite the fact that mudslinging using the media is still here (remember the ‘golden arinola’ and mabini’s handicap supposedly caused by std). But I have this feeling that there some imbalance brought about by the factor that is technology, which, on the positive side made it easy to access information but on the negative side made spreading of malicious information too easy. And it is sad to admit that most Filipinos lack critical thinking and don’t seem to know how to digest what they read. I have a hypothesis that this is a flaw in our country’s educational system that needs to be addressed. Case in point is the Manila Times headline on PNoy’s supposed ‘stand down’ order on afp. The first time I read it, I took it with a grain of salt as one is supposed to considering that most info are but from an unidentified source. The accusation was just too strong so I had to read it the second time with the intent of determining whether to believe it or not and I have come to a conclusion that the source, logically, cannot exist. If the supposedly educated chunk of the populace can be deceived by that article, what can we expect of the ‘masa’?
I have friend who studied in korea under a government scholarship (that is after she took Law in phils) who even posted the news on her page. It is beyond me to know how it escaped her but I also have a hypothesis on her case: the foreign education (also) did not include critical thinking in their scope of studies, or, the new American boyfie must have literally f*cked her brains out.
Spot on, Nino. I am seeing a lot of comments of late as to how Philippine media are underperforming and contributing to the problem. That is not usually the role of the press in a free society. But in the Philippines, the media are for sure a part of the problem.
I have been doing some serious thinking on the aspect of maturity, because I too have seen the problem – even with myself so many times. Just theoretical knowledge is not enough for maturity, so you can have a Dr. of Laws and be immature -> Santiago.
Where I continue to disagree with Joe though is that you CANNOT pre-empt the nation’s own growing pains, now very visible in its public processing of the Mamasapano event. Americans tried to teach Filipinos how to do things in colonial times, Filipinos acted like school kids in front of the teacher and reverted to their own inner ways decades after the American headmasters left the building – cf. Alfred McCoys Closer Than Brothers regarding the difference between the postcolonial and the republic generation at PMA.
Now I see a descendant of the American headmasters come to the old colony and shaking his head very often about how we have reverted. But I am confident we are learning, and Joe’s input remains very valuable even if many of us – even me – are often headstrong.
Eventually, we will for all others tell us have to go through our own maturation process, similar to young people who have left home. We will probably listen more to our own among us who are more mature, like Trillanes and the Fil-Am soldier who scolded FVR.
Finally I do hope that out of the present crisis, the nation will finally learn. So far there has been no coup and I hope there will be no impeachment. In fact I do hope that out of this common learning process, the nation will come out much stronger. I look at how things were back in the late 80’s with all the coup attempts, the Estrada impeachment and EDSA2 – a comic opera my brother and me laughed about – and the seriousness NOW that shows how the nation has learned that not everything is a comedy, and inspite of all the passion there is RESTRAINT relative to before – nobody went for the coup d’evil Joe, impeachment won’t happen I think, but the truth will come out and people will learn more. Joe I will continue to goad you, but more gently. I know you mean well in your own way.
I expect them to be civil now that emotions are no longer as high as when they tried holding the hearing for the first time…And I may also disappoint myself.
🙂 We shall hope for the best.
I suggest the article writer peruse the source below for further analysis of the issue.
http://www.tribune.net.ph/headlines/poe-clears-noynoy-no-rap-recommended
Thanks for the article. One wonders why Poe even wandered into the impeachment field. She simply cut off discussion when the subject of MILF came up. One also wonders at the lack of treatment of AFP and cease fire failings, and the presentation of legislation in draft form before other views are incorporated. It is an “out of order” process that disrespects those who have disagreeing positions.
One wonders why Poe even wandered into the impeachment field.
========
I think Grace Poe just did a Mar Roxas there by saying that the President has no legal liability on the Mamasapano. The impeachment issue cannot be avoided because of the call on some corners for PNoy to resign. Grace Poe was right in raising it practically in defense of the President when she said,
“The only way to make him accountable is through impeachment, if he will proven to have committed betrayal of public trust. Now what will be the grounds against the President?”
“Again, betrayal of public trust. That is too heavy a charge. Did he betray us if his purpose was to make the country safe by approving the mission?,” Poe said.
I was watching the press conference, and her presentation was not clear as you have made it. She was struggling for words and talked at length about it, wandering all over the field. If it was not discussed in committee, or not in the report, the correct answer to the reporter’s question should have been “we did not discuss impeachment”. One of the problems with the press conference was that it mixed her personal views with the job of presenting a committee’s findings.
@jameboy
Spin.
If Grace Poe really “did a Mar Roxas” – think Leila de Lima, too – her response might have been, “PNoy cannot be impeached for this.”
In a Karen Davila interview, Poe said she agonized over the report, because she respects PNoy as president and friend, but she had to do her duty to the people, she claimed.
She’s well-informed and smart. She’s heard PNoy take responsibility in a live TV address. She’s read reports of the assistance packages PNoy has authorized for the families.
Forget the friendship, forget the personal respect she has for him. If she was doing her duty to the people, why did she twist the truth in her report to them?
When there’s an inconsistency between words and actions, it’s the actions that tell the real story. In that press conference, it seemed more like she planted the seed of impeachment, then washed her hands of it.
bantay,
Looks like you are not fond of Grace Poe. 🙂 I just happen to see her ‘impeachment’ remarks as a way to give in and respond to queries from media in relation to the oust or call for PNoy to resign. And she’s right, there’s no way PNoy can be ousted except impeachment which she implied would be difficult if not impossible.
But, who knows, your bad vibes about her maybe warranted because most of us here doesn’t really know her well that yet.
🙂 back at you, jameboy
bad vibes caused by questionable actions
any inside info on why your boss excluded this particularly vital executive-session info?
“Trillanes: 120 SAF men refused to help comrades”
http://www.abs-cbnnews.com/nation/03/20/15/trillanes-120-saf-men-refused-help-comrades/
“…any inside info on why your boss…..” – bantay
========
Whoa! What happened there? 🙂
Grace Poe definitely is playing both sides, she is a very political snake. Making sure she is in the good graces of whoever she needs. Politics, so what.
——————————————————————————————————————
Let us get back to the seven FINDINGS of the report – link is available in one of my posts in the previous article and everywhere on Internet and is IMHO signed – which I find interesting:
1. The concerned members of the Moro Islamic Liberation Front (MILF), Bangsamoro Islamic Freedom Fighters (BIFF), and other armed groups murdered and robbed the Philippine National Police (PNP) Special Action Force (SAF) Commandos.
2. Police Director General Alan LM Purisima commited Usurpation of Authority or Official Functions, violating Article 177 of the Revised Penal Code (RPC) and Section 36(b)(4) of Presidential Decree No. 807, in relation to Section 46(A)(3), Rule 10 of the Revised Rules on Administrative Cases in the Civil Service.
3. PDIR Getulio Napeñas commited grave misconduct, violating Section 36(b)(4) of Presidential Decree No. 807, in relation to Section 46(A)(3), Rule 10 of the Revised Rules on Administrative Cases in the Civil Service.
4. The President must bear responsibility for giving assent to and failing to prevent the unlawful exercise of official functions by PDG Purisima in connection with Oplan Exodus.
5. The President must show leadership.
6. There are indications that the planning and the execution of the Oplan Exodus were not 100% Filipino planned and implemented.
7. The Office of the Presidential Adviser on the Peace Process (OPAPP) should pursue peace with justice.
——————————————————————————————————————
Now one may contest No 5., so I am not including it in my argument, the rest of the points are purely objective. My analysis:
A. Points 2 and 4 together show that the President may have broken the law.
B. Points 1 and 7 mean that some MILF members may have to face the court.
The MILF may have to hand over the killers so that they can face justice – before BBL.
C. Points 2 and 3 are also the stance of Mar Roxas and Leila de Lima.
That plus 1 means that there is probably not just only one culpable person – Napeñas.
D. Points 4 and 6 in conjunction with Joe’s comment that Purisima had the American contacts.
In Germany, an official of the BND (Bundesnachrichtendienst) was recently fired for directly aiding the CIA and not going through official channels of cooperation. Even in partnership between nations, there are limits. Nations are allies, never FRIENDS. The only truly close allies of the USA are in the “Five Eyes” group: USA, Canada, UK, Australia, New Zealand.
E. Now look at Points 2, 4 and 6 in conjunction with Joe’s comment somewhere that Purisima was vital for his direct US contacts. Now one may ask: why did the US not help the SAF? Why did they not send in special ops people themselves? Is the President authorized to covertly cooperate with the United States just like that? Even he is bound by certain parameters. In Germany there is a parliamentary committee on covert matters which checks things, of course this committee does not meet in the open. While the USA is any ALLY of the Philippines, national interests are national interests and allies are never FRIENDS.
The US is precluded from taking an operational role. One American with Napenas in operations tried to get Pangilinan to fire artillery and was rebuffed. http://www.rappler.com/nation/87192-american-involvement-mamasapano
The question is: how far is Noynoy authorized to go? How is the cooperation between US and the Philippines defined? I know there is VFA but what about the rest? Is there a Senate committee or a House committee to check what the President does here?
I know that in the US they have an intelligence committee somewhere, House or Senate. Joe I am not against cooperation, but there have to be checks and balances. Are there?
There was once an Iran-contra affair, Ollie North and others, and it was properly investigated due to US checks and balances – plus a vigilant, professional press. That is how a mature society deals with things going to far, how can the Philippines mature?
Poelitics
Angela Merkel has a similar reputation for being a snake. In fact at the moment she is in the Ukraine conflict IMHO playing both sides: US and Russia. Kahit sino sa dalawang malalakas ang hahawak sa Alemanya, hindi dehado ang bansa – ganyan talaga ang buhay.
Isinulat ni Macchiavelli na kung mahina kang bansa at masyado kang umasa sa isang bansang mas malakas sa iyo, hawak ka nito. Mas maganda ayon sa kanya ang magkumpol-kumpol ang mga mahihina para hindi sila malamangan ng malakas.
Iyon ang prinsipyo ng ASEAN, iyon ang prinsipyo ng EU. Kahit sobrang lakas ng US, meron ding say ang EU sa mararaming bagay. Kahit dolyar ang may hawak sa ekonomiya ng mundo, merong Euro dito kaya hindi na kami maaring guluhin masyado ng IMF…
Absent full political integration, the EU can never hope to duplicate the success of the US.
It never will. The EU will either remain a strong junior partner of the US – but at least not a vassal like the Philippines is – or will be a junior partner of Russia. Putin is the last of the old guard, there is a new generation in Russia that is more modern and acceptable, children of oligarchs and Mafiosi with MBAs and everything. They will take over after Putin. The past 20 years have shown that the Great Game of global politics is very open.
Life for the middle class in the EU is much better than in the US, we have top-level social services here, extremely good public transport including a Europe-wide speed train network. The US favors mostly the very rich. Here we have good police so people don’t need to carry guns like in USA. A third option is that the EU could become like Switzerland – strong and independent. Which would be good, European powers have intervened too much in other parts of the world in centuries past, their child US is continuing this legacy.
The central aim of the EU founding fathers is not to subvert or counter-balance the power of the US. It is to maintain peace within and among its member countries who had been traumatized by two great wars.
That aim could still be in jeopardy if there is no willingness for individual member states to adopt not just the monetary union but political union as well. Current set up mainly benefits the core (Germany) but there is massive suffering in the periphery (Portugal, Italy, Ireland, Greece, Spain).
There are official goals and statement, and there is political and economic reality. You are of course right it can go many ways, history shows that you never really know. Q.E.D.
The Philippines was a vassal of the US, but how do you figure that still is the case? Aid is minor, trade is modest, government interface is diplomatic only, military engagement is limited.
Good questions, Joe. My investigative intuition plus a few indications that necessitate further research and thorough analysis. I am not going to jump the gun again this time.
Just had a telco, have to send a mail with points of clarification to my customer (major steel plant), then go to McDo for AMERICAN breakfast yum – no more yoghurt in the fridge 😦 – then telco again, then some analysis, implementation, technical tests and completion. After an honest working day, some breathes of fresh spring air and stocking up my fridge, I shall have a calm and dispassionate look at the pieces of evidence that I have gathered. My report shall be as outlined and structured – very important – as Poe’s Senate report. 🙂
Nice… work is coming back after the usual beginning of the year slump which is after the year-end run to use up corporate budgets, people then use up all there rest vacation and no new projects are started. Monday was discussing an upgrade for a medical technology customer, Tuesday was about open support calls at an aerospace customer, Wednesday/Thursday about enhancements at a steel plant customer.
Believe it or not, just use your judgement. So much for me being a Walter Mitty guys. 🙂
I mentioned in some postings in josephivo’s Philippine sovereignty blog article that the USA is the modern-day Roman empire – in military and in cultural terms. Now the Greek city-states enjoyed some measure of autonomy as a federation under the Roman empire. But later on, the Western part of Rome collapsed and the Eastern part of Rome became the Byzantine empire – with GREEK as its official language. Things can go many ways.
And we all know where the Byzantine Empire went:
Sweet! 🙂
El Tabako Ramos says the President should do a Gloria and just say sorry.
In my humble view, no, Mr. Tabako, there is nothing that the President should be sorry about and he should be well advised not to do it. The comparison with Gloria’s thievery of the vote is just sickening and repulsive.
There are many way of saying something like sorry. One can say:
– I am sorry (admits guilt and shows regret) – appropriate for Gloria
– What I did was wrong (Clinton-style, admits guilt but slyly show NO regret) 🙂
– I regret that this happened (lo siento) which admits responsibility but not guilt.
Actually Noynoy already admitted responsibility and showed regret.
It is not what I wanted!
You get it – communication has many fine nuances.
Sometimes THEY matter more than the main message.
Yes, how hard is that for people to grasp?
I see today that Senator Trillanes (1) announced he will run for Vice President, and (2) advised the President not to apologize, as that would be walking into a trap leading to impeachment. That rings clear given FVR’s suggestion yesterday that Aquino apologize, he being among the “get rid of Aquino” crowd of old farts and malcontents.
No I don’t think he wants to get rid of Aquino. He played kingmaker and was the man behind the scenes with Cory and thought he could be the tiyo to Noynoy. Unfortunately Noynoy has his own head, old FVR feels useless and gets cranky. 🙂
He lost my admiration. He weakens the Philippines when he undermines the sitting president and his voice is added to the complaints of the crooks and political players who are destabilizing the nation.
Now if everyone were as rational and as calm as those posting in Raissa’s blog – I am there now as well since I felt ready – then it would not be a problem at all.
Unfortunately the Philippines now is at the stage of political maturity Germany had during the Weimar Republic. Communist revolution in Munich in 1919, Hitler may or may not have been part of it, crushed by right-wing militia. Hitler’s coup attempt in 1923 including a parliamentary investigation that was all over the press, Hitler in jail but released a year later. Street fights between Communists and Nazis. The rest is history. I now understand your concerns and don’t see them as identifying enemies Marcos-style anymore.
Ferdie Marcos: di inimies op de New Society shall NOT win!
“Now if everyone were as rational and as calm as those posting in Raissa’s blog – I am there now as well since I felt ready – then it would not be a problem at all.”
Yep, I saw you there… you surely will be comfortable with Parekoy, both of you posts loooooong comments, and he enjoys baiting JoeAm so often (GRP syle), and takes it upon himself to manage that blog more than the owner does.
Looking at parallels, history repeats itself, but in different variations each time. Hitler too was jailed for a coup attempt, like Trillanes: He was pardoned and released, like Trillanes, He chose the parliamentary way to power, like Trillanes. But I think the parallels end there.
Trillanes has matured, he is energetic, calm and intelligent. He would make a good leader without becoming a Filipino Führer. Life holds so many possible paths.
OK Senator Trillanes, kapag nabasa mo ito: magaling ka, kaya huwag mong sayangin. Nacionalista ka, pero huwag mo sanang gayahin si Dolpong Hitler.
In which case, El Tabako should stop issuing statements slash advise suggestive of guilt owning by the President.
He used to be real good, but elder statesmen sometime become a bit cranky when old.
Helmut Kohl and Helmut Schmidt are examples of that in today’s Germany.
As well he should – irrelevant cranky old dog.
As head of then Philippine Constabulary, he should also be made accountable for some degree of guilt and responsibility for the murder, torture, and “salvaging” of his second cousin’s perceived enemies.
But of course he will always deny responsibility for those. He could always say it was his boys – the colonels and lieutenants and foot soldiers and the CHDF’s – who did the murdering and the torturing and the salvaging.
All the while, he was just smoking cigar in his Crame headquarters.
Or maybe cavorting with Ms. Baby Arenas?
I think he should be thanked for his role in getting democracy back and defending it, and for being a good President during his term. No need to go back all the way.
But in a maturing but not yet fully mature political culture like the Philippines – I compare the chaos of today’s Philippines to the Weimar Republic – cranky old dogs are dangerous.
Hope he does not pull to many people though, hope he stays irrelevant. In the Weimar Republic, cranky old dog and war hero Hindenburg enabled Hitler to get into power.
Not my point. I’m drawing a parallel to his call for the President to say sorry and El Tabako’s own role in the chain of command when the PC was then notoriously known for torture and “salvaging”.
What’s the parallel there? I don’t see any.
I see now – plausible deniability. Possible. He is a fox after all, if one looks at his history.
Now I remember, he got crankier because he got older.(birthday March 18)
Anyway, after being a bit pissed of myself yesterday, I hereby apologize for the WAY I wrote some things in posts made in the previous blog article – not for the CONTENT which I still stand by firmly, especially the last big post I made. Part of my learning curve to being more dispassionate.
What makes me happy is that we are ALL learning from one another here, including Joe and myself. This is the main point of this blog – putting together knowledge for the benefit of the Philippines and inspiring us and all readers to think and analyze more, for a much clearer view.
May the Society of Honor continue on its mission. I was very pleased by how Joe quickly made this article as a reaction to the Senate report, detailling his point of view and inviting further constructive reactions and fruitful comments. Let us continue to help Philippine politics mature.
Time to hop on my bike and get American breakfast at McDo, OK breakfast is over in 15 minutes, it will be a brunch then with a Hamburger Royal after breakfast. Then back home to work. 🙂
“Why is the quarterpounder called Royal in Europe? Because of the metric system” – Pulp Fiction.
🙂 We strive, the main connection of the Society being well-meaning people of good values. Occasionally outspoken . . . hahaha Enjoy the fats . . .
Thanks, was good. It’s getting warmer here now. Just have to wait for my colleague who has the RSA token to access the system to get out of the course she is teaching. Then I finally can start doing my programming. Analyze, solve, test and then release for testing.
I have an idea for an additional blog article: The Philippines on the Way to Political Maturity. The discussions here are forming my thoughts. Underdog will be first though. 🙂
I look forward to either or both.
You’ll get both. The crossover thing I have shelved though – the topic is a bit explosive and not yet fully matured. Need to do more research, more analysis and reflection, let the lava turn into rock, hew stones out of it and build a beautiful Albay church.
As a child growing up without any democracy during Marcos days, I once thought impeachment meant many people throwing peaches at somebody. In that sense Noynoy is already having many fruits and rotten eggs thrown at him, but let us hope his head is hard enough, we know it is hard.
If someone throws duck eggs at Pnoy and he catches and opens it to eat it, it is PNoy balut.
Making the most of a situation defines leadership. My late uncle, then Colonel, prevented troops from leaving Camp Aquinaldo during the big 1989 coup attempt by having trucks filled with explosives park at all gates. His courage and decisiveness – and loyalty to Cory – earned him the one star he got as a General. Being quiet and non-political, it was his only star, but it was a really BIG star. When the going gets tough, the tough get going…
Grace Poe is really good. I am impressed by the professionalism AND the top-down outline structure of the Senate report and its very logical arguments.
The downside are the points she ignored that Joe pointed out here. She is IMHO still not independent ENOUGH, there could be people influencing her.
If she becomes stronger and more independent, she could be a great President in 2022.
But then again, something about Grace reminds me of The Diabolical Trese.
She could use her “powers” to good ends and to bad ends depending on motive.
It would largely depend on her character. You give someone money and power, these things will enhance that person’s character.
Right. And her character is still unknown until now. Wonder who can give more evidence of how her character is, who can say how she has acted until now, to give a better idea.
Some superstition: she is an early Libra, and they are known to be cunning/mysterious.
the blogs move pretty fast here nowadays, Uncle Joe. I haven’t digested Andrew’s excellent post, and out comes crispinbasilio’s outstanding article. You have to teach me how to speed read!
Please extend my congratulations to crispinbasilio for writing this post. A lot of people including me are enlightened.
Thanks, bauwow. Well, we need to get a little counterbalance to the tabloid interpretations, and it is great when writers like Andrew and crispinbasilio brjng reason and a different look to the subjects at hand. I’ll make sure crispinbasilio knows the article is well received.
To quote Jameboy, what Grace Poe exactly said regarding impeachment was:
“The only way to make him accountable is through impeachment, if he will proven to have committed betrayal of public trust. Now what will be the grounds against the President?”
“Again, betrayal of public trust. That is too heavy a charge. Did he betray us if his purpose was to make the country safe by approving the mission?,”
I would like to correct the wrong impression generated by the above article, that Grace Poe is going against Noynoy. She is not. Besides, it should not be our job to protect Noynoy against ALL criticism. Certain criticism is necessary and healthy in a democracy. It is not disloyal to the country.
Certain groups are not mentioned in the report – AFP and cease-fire team. Could be an indication of some partiality, of an indirect attack on Noynoy group only. But not hard evidence. To put her in the same boat as Binay etc. is a bit of a stretch in my opinion, she is somewhere in the middle.
Which is to say it is time to put an end to this chapter. The silly and sensational expedition to implicate the President of guilt is just that – silly. And exhausting.
Enough already.
Well, as long as Noynoy is not impeached, he should bear with it. It is part of democracy.
It is part of the burden of being President. If he has nothing to hide nothing will come out.
If in the end things turn out to be not justified, all the better for him when his term ends.
Certain things should be scrutinized properly though, in the interest of the country.
I have written a longer post about that further down, the issues are NOT personal.
Agree. Tell it to the leftists and opportunists and tabloids.
It is easy to dismiss valid criticisms in that manner, just because there are a lot of idiots that are criticizing in a loud and useless way. Well whatever.
Sorry, my comment was @Micha
Fine. Still I don’t like the implication that everybody who so much as dares find fault in Noynoy is either a leftist, opportunist or a tabloid. I have lived in Marcos times and I remember well how everyone who criticized Marcos was labelled a potential subversive.
Now is this what the February revolution was for? To label people in black and white categories like in the dictatorship it was meant to replace? I can’t believe this.
Let’s break it down into classes.
A) Those who voted for Aquino because they thought he would be good for the nation, a prediction that is largely, imperfectly true. Also people who like what they see in the Philippines and have come over to Aquino. Let’s call them Patriots.
B) Those who support Aquino for political or personal reasons. Legislators, people in his administration, business people who profit for what is is doing. Lets call them Political Patriots.
C) Opponents with an agenda, the crooks, political opponents, leftists who want destabilization, and people still trying to justify why their candidate was correct back in 2010 (GRP). Let’s call them Political Opponents.
D) People who observe what is happening and don’t like what they see all the time, or think Aquino is a bad president because he does not live up to their standards. Generally these standards are nebulous, and are either “perfection” or “the way I would do it” – if the President makes a mistake, they are on it. Performance is generally not their measure, like GDP or infrastructure investment, or peace. Let’s call them Critics.
Most of us here are Patriots and you are a Critic. The yellow-tard label is correctly applied to Political Patriots, the people who will support Aquino because of “mindless” self interest. But you would ask Patriots to stand down from their defense of a good president because you find fault in some of his actions. And you interpret that defense of the President as finding fault with you, the Critic. You are correct to wage your criticisms. You are incorrect to ask the Patriots to stop defending the President. To weaken the President so that Critics and Political Opponents can have a free shot.
Nope. Not going to happen.
That’s putting PiE in his rightful place Mr Joe. He plays those who continue to support the President for fools. He bases his judgment of the President on his personal experiences. in his job and interacting with the people he meets and considers these as the standard by which we judge the President. Who is he anyway that his actions must be the benchmark for what is correct or wrong, good or bad.
Hmmm…It’s good that you have taken a stab at breaking it down into “classes”, JoeAm but to limit the classification of patriots to people rallying behind a person and in this case Aquino is just that, limited. It essentially and gravely misses the whole thing.
A patriot is someone who loves, supports and fights for the best interests of his/her country and this is not necessarily hinged/centered around a particular person. If a person is of the view for example that a current leader and his government are not in the best interest of his country that doesn’t make him less of patriot. If we would follow your definition/classification of what a patriot is just like how Germans rallied around Hitler, then we’d rather be called something else.
“You are correct to wage your criticisms.” Thanks. I just got one good answer from giancarloangulo who understood the questions I am asking and gave a good answer.
From Mary I have gotten some good answers as well in the past days, I would like to thank her for making me UNDERSTAND a little better WHY certain things are the way they are.
So within reasonable doubt, I think that the angle of possible profit from BBL is ruled out. As to whether the President overstepped his boundaries on Mamasapano, I don’t know.
He may have, or he may not have – that is for the nation to decide not for me or any of us.
My questions are very harsh, but valid test cases on my checklist I go through thoroughly.
“He bases his judgment of the President on his personal experiences. in his job and interacting with the people he meets ” Correct, because that is what has shaped me – plus I read different news and get your comments that add to my perspective. Very normal.
“D) People who observe what is happening and don’t like what they see all the time, or think Aquino is a bad president because he does not live up to their standards. Generally these standards are nebulous, and are either “perfection” or “the way I would do it” – if the President makes a mistake, they are on it. Performance is generally not their measure, like GDP or infrastructure investment, or peace. Let’s call them Critics.”
E) People who observe what is happening, think Aquino is a good president but see points were he is going the wrong way and may need some correction. Their view may be personal, it may come from their own experience, but it is concerned for the country as well and is looking for BETTER solutions to build on the GOOD without ripping things apart. Devil’s Advocates who ask important questions. Let’s call them Critical Patriots.
I see myself as being in Category E), while benign0 and others are in Category D).
It’s hard to offer clarifications to those who don’t want it and instead insist on their prejudice…
Spot on!
Not sure why would the author go as far as imply Sen. Poe’s impeachment remarks makes her a lot of things putting her character/motives into question.
Compare that to the kind of remarks, words, and actuations coming out of Aquino eversince. The latter warrants more assessment and discussions whether or not he is living up to the mandate and expectations being the highest elected official.
Another manifestation of gross double standard.
Now Joe, you have asked me this morning why I see the Philippines still as a US vassal. I have been working today – luckily business is up again – so I had to take my time to think about it.
Under Noynoy I think it is NOT a vassal, but NOT looking after it’s own interests enough:
——————————————————————————————————————–
First the Bangsamoro issue and oil, natural gas and palm oil in the area:
i. Retired Justice Mendoza has the legal opinion that: “The Bangsamoro Government cannot be given the power to determine the mining policy in the region without allowing it the power to amend the Constitution. Obviously, this cannot be done.”
ii. US diplomatic dispatch from Wikileaks claims: “According to the Expanded Organic Act for the ARMM (RA 9054), the GRP — rather than the Bangsamoro people — explicitly controls all of the natural resources in the Liguasan Marsh. However, the Indigenous Peoples Right Act (IPRA) provided that indigenous peoples within and along the Liguasan Marsh could claim the land and natural resources in the marsh as part of their ancestral domain.”
iii. Sugar business is no longer profitable in the Philippines since 2015, industrial Thai sugar costs half as much. Now Noynoy is a sugar baron. It is not impossible that he might have other businesses in mind.
——————————————————————————————————————–
Second the covert aspect of the Mamasapano operation:
Purisima’s engagement inspite of his suspension, his US contacts according to Joe, working together with the US very clandestinely. No problem, but even a President must act within the boundaries of officially established relationships. In Germany a secret service officer was fired for directly helping the CIA outside official channels, even if there is a close cooperation. There is a parliamentary committee in Germany which coordinates covert matters, meaning that there are checks and balances. Seem to be none in the Philippines which is latently dangerous.
——————————————————————————————————————–
Third aspect is BPO. Philippines is hardly earning any taxes from BPO business, I have a link to that in another post somewhere. This is too much of an advantage for the mostly American BPO firms (I know, SAP, Linde, TSFI are German) and the country is not getting enough out of it to build own industries.
——————————————————————————————————————–
So we have:
– Interesting natural resources in the BBL area (possible US interest if allowed)
– A President who is economically vulnerable (Hacienda Luisita)
– Who works with the USA completely unchecked (Mamasapano)
– Who is pushing BBL much too hard (inspite of many doubts)
– Not getting enough taxes out of BPO (for Philippine’s future)
NOW it would be far-fetched to say Noynoy is a kind of „Manchurian candidate“ of the USA.
But he IS vulnerable and not doing enough for PHILIPPINE interests in all these cases. Now let me use the analogy of a nation to a business, because it is like that and I am no longer a leftist.
In a business, even a CEO is not allowed to go beyond certain limits without board approval. The stockholders of the Philippines are it’s citizens, their President should do what is best for them. CEOs should not have the possibility to become puppets of a larger partner company.
There are not enough safeguards to prevent a President from selling out if he wants to. BBL, Aquino’s business interests and cooperation with the US should be scrutinized, the first two publicly, the latter in an appropriate Senate committee bound to secrecy.
A patient and open process without confusion and cover-ups is needed to dispel doubts and establish trust. No impeachments or nonsense like that, just offensive transparency.
There are enough middle class people in the Philippines who see these issues in the same way as I do, only many of them do not articulate them as clearly or jump to conclusions.
Transparency is the best way to move forward and defuse agitators and malcontents.
Possible US interest in Mindanao resources is speculative, a future act, not present. Aquino business interests are totally speculative. The Philippines benefits from US intelligence, as the US benefits from holding global terrorism in check. There is no vassal condition. The US is pro-BBL as is most of the humanistic world. The BPO is a Philippine industry and strictly founded on commercial interests of mutual benefit. There is no dominance of anything by anyone.
You can’t win the argument because the Philippines is not a vassal state of America. There are mutual interests, sure, as the Philippines has with China and Japan and Malaysia. She is not a vassal of any of them.
I wrote above: “I think it is NOT a vassal, but NOT looking after it’s own interests enough”.
Therefore I already revised the word vassal after some analysis. And it is valid to opine that the Philippines does not have a clearly defined way of looking after it’s own interests.
Look at the chaos just because of Mamasapano. Any interest group wanting to exploit the Philippines can EASILY do it because of the nation lacks political maturity and real policy.
“but NOT looking after it’s own interests enough”
how can that be if there are leftists, opportunists and tabloids?
They are not looking after Philippine interests but only their own. Actually I think most people in the Philippines are looking after the interests of their own little group.
Away tayo nang away, tapos hindi natin napapansin na nilalamangan na tayo. Siyempre talagang mangyayari iyon dahil nahahalata nila iyong katangahan natin. Tulad ng China – binabali wala nila ang Pilipinas dahil alam nilang hindi natin sila kayang harapin. Kung pati Malaysia at MILF pinaglalaruan at niloloko ang Pilipinas, paano pa kaya iyong iba. Parang negosyo iyan – kung hindi ka marunong tumawad, dehado ka, tuluyan kang lalamangan.
“They are not looking after Philippine interests but only their own. Actually I think most people in the Philippines are looking after the interests of their own little group.
Away tayo nang away…”
Again, do not generalize….some are just for stability and progress, these few are just responding to the others who are not (for selfish reasons, mainly political)
Oh, okay. My fault for reading before finishing coffee. This is a non-issue then.
OK. 🙂
I think the President Divested in HLI before his oathtaking.
His personal history has been devoid of extravagant purchases save for an old Porshe also before his oathtaking.
Thus the sugar baron thing seems to be a non issue.
Thanks for clarifying. As a fellow computer expert, you understand my way of thinking.
Checking all test cases so to speak to make sure there are no major bugs.
One more thing: I find the fear-mongering with respect to Binay silly. If he is popular with the masses, find out what they think he will do better for them and address it.
For example social services: debunk the myth that Binay invented free hospital care in Makati, it was Yabut. And address social services as well so that the masa will see that they will be helped.
Trying to protect Noynoy from investigation at all costs will backfire – it will only raise suspicion. Trying to protect him by scaring people of the bogeyman Binay is also not a good strategy.
Let investigations continue, if in the end there is nothing to hide nothing will come out, for sure. Talking about Binay all the time will make him stronger, better to address what the people need.
Trying to make Poe look bad at all costs is not OK either, doubts are OK but not insinuations.
Hookay, let’s get it straight.
A police operation. Wanted criminal neutralized. Muslim rebels fired on withdrawing operatives resulting in heavy police casualties.
Pray tell, what is there to investigate about the President?
Wrote two big posts about it above, quoting the Senate report.
Don’t want to repeat myself.
Nope, the whole presumption of presidential guilt was bogus right from the get go. There was nothing in there to stand. It only drained the emotions and energies.
I see your post above re: natural gas and palm oil as nothing but insinuations too.
Doubts, not insinuations. Doubts that must be addressed in national interest.
Insinuation – an unpleasant hint or suggestion of something bad.
Doubt, insinuation…whatever.
Anyways, you’re saying that Noynoy has a private business interest in a region where he favors the native population to have autonomous rule? The insinuation being that he is making a private deal with top MILF leaders to give him, in return for the grant of autonomy, first exploration rights and privilege on those natural wealth after he leaves office?
Am I getting you right on this one?
Checks should be implemented to prevent that. At the very least, him pushing the BBL too hard is strange. Due to possible conflict of interest, BBL should be checked even more and not just left in the hand of one man alone who might POTENTIALLY profit from it.
It is wrong to accuse someone of anything. But to be naive and rule out that it is possible, and to not put any checks in place, is just like not making a SALN for public officials.
And: I wasn’t born yesterday, I know such things can also be done via proxies and holdings that go through half the world. So in any case, trusting ANYONE with potential conflict of interest to push an important decision without checks and scrutiny is foolish.
US oil companies profiting is also not unrealistic. In Ecuador some previous presidents were allegedly bribed and never returned after their term where they gave US oil firms preferential treatment. Could be Malaysian Petron also as well, who knows.
Chancellor Gerhard Schröder left for Russian Gazprom after his term, after personally approving a deal with Ruhrgas that favored Putin’s firm. So these things happen, it is better to put safeguards in place so that national interests are not compromised.
Then why is Murad not screaming for Noynoy’s head already? Surely, if there is wealth to be had in their native soil, why would they grant a Christian outsider to explore it first?
And furthermore: checks should be put into place to ensure that no operations take place outside the bounds of whatever open and secret agreements the Philippines and the US have. It is foolish to leave that in the hands of one man alone.
“Surely, if there is wealth to be had in their native soil, why would they grant a Christian outsider to explore it first?” Give him a cut or a percentage is enough, or an indirect part in a joint venture. Anyway, if he does it it practically cannot be prevented, there are enough ways to cover such things up internationally. Just prevent conflict of interest by checking the BBL properly and not rushing it through. And review the mining part.
And Saudi Arabia is the best example for how fundamentalist Islam and international business are not mutually exclusive.
And as for the ops side: Mamasapano should further be investigated not based on the angle of making Noynoy culpable, but more in the direction of whether policemen paid and armed by the Philippine state were unofficially used as a kind of US mercenaries.
In case that is true, then Noynoy would have betrayed the Philippines. If the cooperation was within limits that are sanctioned by the US-Philippine relationship, fine.
And the Mamasapano incident was the perfect cover to seal the deal, right?
Why weren’t US special ops used for this? I mean if the thing was covert, then better use guys who are truly expert and have all the copters and stuff. The covert limits of a relationship between nations can be wider than the official limits, we all know that.
OR borrow highly sophisticated US equipment, if the problem was not wanting to have Americans acting on Philippine soil. If the Russians can “lend” repainted equipment to East Ukrainian rebels, why was it not possible to repaint a few American copters?
Peping Cojuangco is a natural in that kind of game. And he instigated a movement to pressure the President to step down.
So I’m not buying the rubber stretch.
For all we know, Peping was just doing moro-moro with his nephew. Again just a possibility. Anyway, we cannot prove or disprove anything here, so to minimize potential damage:
1) check the BBL before it is passed, especially the natural resources side.
2) make sure checks and balances are in place for covert operations – something like a Senate or a House Committee that checks things but not publicly – there is something like that in the United States too, I think they were the ones who investigated Ollie North.
If I were a businessman, I wouldn’t want to invest in a region of armed rebels where factional stripe and rivalries could hamper business operation.
Give one group total power, like what WILL de facto happen to MILF when BBL is passed. Eliminate their enemies, like AFP is doing for them now. Give the a share of the spoils like Aramco did to the Saud family, throwing out the clan of the present Jordanian king.
Have you watched the movie “Syriana”? This stuff happens in reality as well. Create client states with greedy, good-for-nothing heads that are content with easy money and riches.
With all the money the MILF has spent on weapons over all these years, they could have EASILY made their area into a prosperous region if they were not just too lazy to do so. And if they run the place, they will enrich themselves and leave everybody else dirt-poor.
IF:
1) businesses in Bangsamoro are properly taxed (whoever makes business there)
2) enough money goes into developing the land for the benefit of the people AND
3) the national government gets enough out of it to develop the entire Philippines
4) the usual suspects in Moroland are prevented from covert rearmament (happens!)
5) it is strictly checked that no Malaysian passport holders seep into the area
Then I am OK with BBL or whatever.
As for the US-Philippine security cooperation, fine as well, as long as it is not left in the hands of one man alone. It is a cooperation between countries, each with own interests.
Example: Azerbaijan nowadays is de facto being cultivated by the EU for its oil.
It is a dictatorial state run by oligarchs who used to be Communist functionaries.
Don’t care how they handle it there because these are not my people you know.
In fact I am happy that Europe is securing a fuel source independent of US/Russia.
But when it comes to the Philippines, I do care, and I think the nation should be careful.
“At the very least, him pushing the BBL too hard is strange”
Strange to push for the resulting peace to be had from BBL? come on…
We have the Senate and HOR to scrutinize BBL, it cannot be passed into law unless they enact it… the pushing hard just means to act on it at asap and not to be distracted too long in witch hunts like parallel investigations, how many investigations do we need, by the way, HOR, Senate, BOI… so theirs is done, the report was written, find time to debate on the BBL, ask the constitutional experts, and the peace panel as resource persons.
We all need long lasting peace as too many young men, children and Mindanao populations in the periphery of the war zone are already being sacrificed.
Most of those in Mindanao are being TERRORIZED into silence by MILF and others.
Suggestion: by a few American drones and ELIMINATE major MILF leaders. Deal with them like Duterte.
Then send in people to supervise really free elections under ARMM. Fight the little that is left of armed groups.
But doubts about Poe are not proper? I fear you are losing track of yourself.
Doubts are OK – I actually share some of them.
Assuming she is already out to take Aquino is something totally different.
Why is it different? If she is using a non-partisan forum to project herself as a presidential candidate, ought we not question that as we do with Cayetano? Ought we not cast her avid hunt for Aquino, in the report, against her enduring silence about Binay? That is not in the national interest?
I don’t see an avid hunt for Noynoy. She didn’t even call to impeach him like the above article suggests. She is being made to look like a traitor and I know this kind of thing too well from the time of Marcos.
Ahahaha, you reveal the absurdity of this national drama so well. Thank you, Micha.
In the end, representatives elected by the people are doing their job and one of their jobs is to check on the President. If they are wrong it will be proven in the end. That’s it.
You argue out of both sides of your mouth. You say insinuations (doubt) abut Aquino are legitimate and in the national interest, but we ought not speculate about Poe based on her inconsistent and political behavior.
Well, let me put it this way: any one who dares even touch a hair of Mr. Perfect Aquino is already nearly excommunicated. Noynoy is also part of a political faction like everybody. Let them investigate each other, as long as it is done in a civilized way. Happens in most Western and East Asian countries as well. They are all self-interested, but if you let these guys check each other you keep abuses in check. Nobody is a complete saint in politics.
Don’t buy this stuff about Aquino being the saviour of the nation, even if he did good work. You are criticizing someone who is investigating him and others as if he should be above all of that. Elevating a human being to sainthood is wrong and dangerous in my opinion.
Who is elevating a human being to sainthood? You????
No – those who assume that Noynoy is always acting in national interest and do not want anybody to question that. I grew up in Marcos times, it was the same nobody was allowed to question that Marcos was doing the right thing for the Philippines. In democracy you need to have people to check the leaders like Grace Poe is doing – even if she also has political interests. So that no leader can become like Marcos again – uncontrollable.
All this we must support the President and nobody may criticize him reminds me so much of Marcos times that it makes me sick. Is this what the February revolution was for?
I agree that the other extreme of everybody attacking and disrespecting the President is also wrong – too much democracy. But making someone who has VALID criticism towards the President like Grace Poe a villain is wrong. In Marcos time they called people who even just tried to criticize Marcos in a constructive way SUBVERSIVES. Now I see the same thing just being mirrored and I can’t believe it. Where is the country going to?
over reaction! hey give and take …two way street…..criticize Aquino all you want and allow people to criticize Poe just don’t expect it to be quiet.
“nobody may criticize him reminds me so much of Marcos times that it makes me sick. Is this what the February revolution was for?
There’s quite a lot of difference, you’re comparing again. In Marcos’ time, you can be imprisoned, tortured even when you criticize him, (Remember Ariel Ureta who uttered the words “sa ikauunlad ng bayan, bisikleta ang kailangan” seeing it as insult to his New Society mantra.
Now you see the left leaning groups shouting their hearts out in every opportunity, the NTC groups calling for resignation or impeachment or overthrow so a so-called council, meaning them, can take over; in the social media and in radio, even on TV, you can read and hear all kinds of poisonous diatribes against PNOY, do you see anyone of them in jail?
What we are advocating is not to stoke further these types of haters so as not to destabilize the country and encourage long term investments here. We’re not even in Plaza Miranda calling for critics to shut up, we are just defending the gains so far attained which are endangered by instability or anarchy.
“do you see anyone of them in jail?” Good point.
I thought you graduated from UP. It seems that you are an alumni of Assumption.
Nope, I only finished high school in the Phlippines and left after I enrolled in UP para hindi halatang aalis ako.
Continued as a working student in the European system – first McDo then computing work. From a burgis pretending to be for the masa to someone who really had to work. That experience has shaped me.
Assuming does not always make an ASS of U and ME, it is the foundation of all thesis.
It is nice to know that you do not pout when you doubt.
Ok lang na me mayabangan sa iyo, just be yourself so no one will call you pretentious.
and if anyone does don’t lose face…….Do what I tell you but don’t do what I do.
I know it was difficult for you to write shorter, but your comments are getting shorter.
We all learn from Edgar that sometimes enumeration can better explain our thoughts.
Plus take note of all the unsolicited advices like not to dominate the threads, to remove doubts of being someone who is need of attention.
Once point is made you don’t have to repeat it after wards. You know the effect of nagging is to someone. Better to submit a blog article.
We all know that you are intelligent, but there is nothing wrong if you keep your feet burning on the ground.
Thanks.. 🙂
You see I am constantly improving. Like I wrote to Joe, my aim is not perfection, it is constant improvement. Good mood now since I am getting more work to do again, the sun is shining more, the days are getting longer and warmer, just danced salsa like crazy wow!
Also I am happy that one of the most modern and organized people from our “tribe” is now moving into action very constructively – Senator Trillanes. Cool guy really who learned from mistakes, same age as my PR brother and looks a bit like him but much whiter.
I am watching, correcting and copying things all the time – that is my way of doing things.
Slowly turning a jeepney into an SUV, step by step. Practice is the best way to improve.
Also I am happy to see that I am inspiring different people as well – you, giancarloangulo. But even Joe by annoying him into giving answers to some things – makulit talaga ako. Everybody here is learning from one another and the readers are also learning from US.
He’s not the savior of the nation. He’s a good president and we ought not allow him to be undermined by specious political interests. The interpretation that that makes us mindless worshippers for taking that stance brings us right back into the yellow category again.
Now tell me: where is the difference between that stance and the stance taken during Marcos days? Nobody was allowed to question him, he was good for the country and all.
Noynoy is a good president, yet labelling politely argued criticism as Poe brought it – even if it may be political it is her democratic right to do so – as underming the country is VERY similar to the kind of language used during Ferdie Marcos’s time that I remember well.
Move on, you were still in College then. Stop looking for parallel universes or windmills.
Thanks, good point coming from youth.
See response elsewhere.
Stop comparing Marcos and this president, you are in the extreme, you got out to avoid Marcos, now you are turning your unending criticism and doubts, insinuations even on Pnoy as if he is as evil as Marcos that you ran away from..you equate him with Marcos, well we believe PNOY will not tarnish the image of his parents who were the real victims of Marcos, who stayed here to fight, imprisoned and had to leave the country get his health back and offered his life so his countrymen could wake up from passivity and ignorance, I woke up because of that sacrifice which you belittled as just a political disagreement with Marcos.
Well, let me put it this way after having thought about it: Poe is more trusted by many including me because she is rooted in the country and its people, even if she IS a snake she will NEVER IMHO betray the country. Noynoy for many comes from the class that has often betrayed the people, a class whose money counted more to it than anything else.
The questions I asked above are very close the actual accusations being made by many. The issue of masa distrusting those above is something that you cannot keep the lid on. Better address important issues than to have that blow up in everybody’s face some time.
She betrays her country by trying to hang a battlefield loss on the President when she knows the reasons for the deaths are far from him. Trillanes revelation about the 120 SAF who refused to fight make the point.
To add to Joe’s statement, please read Sen. Trillanes’ expose…
http://www.abs-cbnnews.com/nation/03/20/15/trillanes-120-saf-men-refused-help-comrades
In other words, objectivity and transparency were set aside for a political ride on the people’s emotions and the abusiveness of a tabloid media. Impeach Poe. What a horrid abuse of trust to use a fact finding inquiry to undermine a sitting president by twisting the facts. Hiding them.
His revelation about the PNP intel officers who wined and dined AFP officers the night before make even more sense in light of my Tamil Tiger grocers comment that somebody who is against the President may have engineered the situation and the whole thing looked to him like a deliberate botch by certain groups to cause trouble in the capital. One should not forget that Ramos founded the SAF in 1981.
Since Trillanes is a person whose words I trust and looking at WHO was at the SAF 44 airport ceremony (Binay, Ramos, Bongbong, Imelda) I am indeed starting to get a bit shocked. I thought Ramos at least had SOME character as an old professional soldier.
The implications of all this are really scary. This will take some time to sink in Joe. With every single piece of information the plot thickens. If the Tamil tiger is right, this is sick. Sacrificing fine young men to get at the President. The fact-finding should continue.
I am all for looking at all angles, this is simply my nature and my training. It is important to find out if some people intentionally sacrificed the SAF 44 for political gain. Bastards.
And the TV report makes it clear that the Senate report truly was only a DRAFT, that was not clear in other sources. The only weapon against disinformation is clarity, the only weapon against darkness is strong light. Let us see what else comes out, bit by bit.
You find the fear-mongering with respect to Binay silly..
We are living here, the fear of a looming Binay Presidency is a prudent fear knowing the way the masa votes, the influence of his numerous sister cities, the way he would not let go of Makati and the BSP presidency as it now shows to be one of the sources of his campaign funds, just like Makati is. And we all know that money talks, and talks so articulately… just take a look at his numbers in the latest polls.. so many are still so blind, the people are so into joining the bandwagon…..
@Mary Grace
We who are afraid of Binay are not fear mongering because there is tangible evidence regarding his corruption. It is PiE who is fear mongering because all he has are speculations and insinuations without a shred of proof. He is a spin doctor who pretends to be neutral.
@ jolly cruz
You expressed it better than I ever could.
“It is PiE who is fear mongering because all he has are speculations and insinuations without a shred of proof.” Questions that I have seen many people asking all over.
Doubts that have to be dispelled, one by one, by the light of rationality.
“He is a spin doctor who pretends to be neutral.” My brother is a professional spin doctor. Nobody is neutral, everybody has a vantage point and an opinion.
“We are living here, the fear of a looming Binay Presidency is a prudent fear knowing the way the masa votes” I know that a Binay Presidency is a real prospect, but fear is always a bad guide for action. You fear Binay but ignore the fears of Mindanao people re BBL.
If you are concerned about a Binay presidency, try to find out what he is addressing and find your own answers to it. Why is the masa for him? Maybe because they feel that he is not ignoring them like the burgis always have done? How can you change that? And more..
The masa is for him because he has purchased the loyalties of the sister city mayors and governors, who control the dialogue that emerges at the barangay level, a combination of small gifts as good faith gestures, with words and ideas that “all politicians are corrupt, so vote for Binay”. He has used the enormous wealth of Makati to fund his enterprise, and he has been building it for years. He runs a crime organization.
If the Ombudsman works fast enough, and the Supreme Court lets the money laundering council track Binay bank accounts (he has filed requesting a blocking order), then he may not make it to the election. That is the desperation fueling the resign . . . soon likely to be impeach . . . Aquino movement.
Into which you and others here add their support.
“all politicians are corrupt, so vote for Binay” – well either corrupt or interested in furthering their own business. Cynicism among many people has reasons that you have to defuse with credible answers, not by discounting their objections. It just increases resentment.
“If the Ombudsman works fast enough, and the Supreme Court lets the money laundering council track Binay bank accounts (he has filed requesting a blocking order), then he may not make it to the election. That is the desperation fueling the resign . . . soon likely to be impeach . . . Aquino movement.” Now those are facts that are new to me. It is important to inform knowledgeable people like me about this to know the context. Thank you!
“That is the desperation fueling the resign . . . soon likely to be impeach . . . Aquino movement. Into which you and others here add their support.” Well, it is up to Aquino and his supporters to convince people that the President deserves the trust given to him. Enough people think that Aquino could be a hypocrite, a wolf in sheeps clothing from the oligarchy wanting to secure their interests – business and stuff. Don’t be surprised if some people then prefer a wolf who admits he is a wolf and admire his moxie for being like that.
Giancarloangulo has given me some points showing that Aquino has done things for the people and not only for business – Philhealth, K-12. And he has convinced me that Aquino is beyond financial and business interest by answering and not evading my questions.
About BBL, I think it is appeasement that will not bring peace but even worse war in the future. Until I am convinced that the peace implementation plan after BBL is realistic and manages the risks, I remain skeptical. Just discounting realistic questions is not enough.
Just like Sec. Mar Roxas, these senators (led by Sen. Grace Poe) just wanted some media mileage for their political ambitions, at the expense of the P-Noy. They could not even present competent evidence to support their claims against the president. Mga KSP na, mga bobo at mga kapal muks pa. What a shame!
Yes, I believe that is true. However, I do believe President Aquino has not done enough within the past few weeks to take back control from the political crabs who will extend their rant until the election.
At this point, the President should relentlessly pursue the cases against the Binays. I believe he could recover lost ground when he finally put Binay where he belongs.
It is out of his hands, residing with the Ombudsman. That’s why Junjun Binay’s rant against the Ombudsman was really very, very stupid. I don’t think Morales is the type who will retreat. She may attack harder.
You’re right, it’s already with the ombudsman.
Junjun is at it again, threathening Landbank with contempt charge if the bank does not honor his signature on checks but that of VM Pena instead. WHAT A FAMILY! Threathening anybody who steps in their way.
The most incredible sense of entitlement I have ever witnessed.
“Wrote two big posts about it above, quoting the Senate report.
Don’t want to repeat myself.”
That’s a first!
I was going to get my cousin Angry Maude to do a rant, but will save her the trouble. Here’s a good one, that is a military man’s counter to Ramos’ righteous babble:
With some change in style, details, and the understandable rant, I thought I was reading Joe America. I like what Manong Santana wrote. My take — he calls a spade a dirty shovel (Manong Ramos, the shovel).
That’s true, isn’t it. Sarcasm and logic, intertwined with fine words, spoken directly. A thing of beauty . . . ahahaha, except I restrain myself here lest I be seen as a loose cannon . . .
Or yellow zombie . . .
It’s probably about time we yellow zombies become acting like loose cannons for a change — loose cannons that make sense (is there such a thing?).
Evil triumphs because the good do nothing if I may paraphrase a quote. Let the silent majority be heard? Why is it I fear that the silent majority is silent for it is confused?
The noise is being stoked by those who would gain from an Aquino resignation or impeachment. They can’t just wait until a regular election, because their boy is under risk of being in jail by then, or losing.
“Why is it I fear that the silent majority is silent for it is confused?” of course it is confused. But then you have to address the doubts – like you did with one of mine above.
Most of the silent majority are not able to articulate their doubts – I can because I am partly masa, partly burgis in my experience. I know how common people feel and can bring it into words. It is dangerous not to take those doubts seriously, and dispel them in a rational way.
The cab I was riding had its radio on TV5 morning show.
The vitriol on that show necessitated Blood Pressure meds.
If Binay wins or If they pressure the President to resign I will definitely leave.
Oh, please don’t. All hands on deck; don’t leave us to the “horrors” to follow. JoeAm, we need cannons on deck — not the loose ones. Hahaha.
@ NHerrerea – thanks for the this noon’s dose of laughter…
@ giancarloangulo – that is just a sample of the poisons coming out the airwaves… sadly, the masa are listening, the taxi and jeepney drivers and their passengers, people in remote areas in the provinces… countering those poison is a monstrous job, knowing we don’t have the means to do nor the desire to do what those envelope media are practicing
I am hard to convince, but I can be convinced Mary. If you can convince me that:
1) BBL is done in a safe and good way for all Filipinos in Mindanao and everywhere.
2) Social services and equal opportunity are being addressed by those other than Binay.
3) Noynoy, Mar and LP are not only there for businessmen but for all Filipinos also poor.
which are the main concerns the masa IMHO have, I promise that I will go to the Internet forums of the papers written in Filipino and argue the point. But I have to be convinced.
1. Have not formed enough of an opinion on this.
2. Social Service and equal opportunity is not being addressed by Binay in a way that points towards a sustainable and equitable strategy that can be translated nationally.
Cakes,Movies,Health Care.Cash Gift.
These are all funded by the disproportionate share that Makati extracts on the total business rental and first and second order spending that housing a business creates.
Healthcare: The present administration has succeeded in implementing the goal of the former president GMA. Philhealth coverage among the poorest families is around 99%. This is done in what should be illegal but is done in public hospitals as time on target enrollment of indigent patients.
Add to the this the fact that everyone employed is automatically a member of Philhealth as long as his employment is the legal above board kind.
The next administrations move would be to introduce price control measures while widening and deepening (in one word expanding) the coverage of Conditions and the lessening till it reaches zero for indigents and affordable for the lower and middle classes price. If we can just keep on the straight path and manage government finances well we may have a medical system that is first world.
The Philhealth strategy has energized public hospitals in our country.
Free movies in Makati is paid for by the City government while in QC it is limited to the first 2 or 3 screening and is not paid for by the City government. This has less effect on the bottom line of the movie houses because those screening have viewerships of 5-20 people (If a movie is worth not going to work for this is the time I used to go before the seniors of QC started invading those screening).
Cakes and Cash gifts are direct handouts with no consequences or requirements and . Contrast this to the PPP also started by GMA which endeavor to use cash/rice handouts to increase school attendance, minimize predatory lending that pushes people towards poverty and tries to help bridge the nutrition issue which create underdeveloped and in general less productive citizenry. This has been implemented through targeting and the my initial problem with the system which was the required permanent address for all beneficiaries that create a problem for the no permanent address extreme proverty people. If you remember during the Pope’s visit this was the program utilized by the DSWD to hide the poor from the Pope’s eyesight. Good program suspicious timing.
On education. The K-12 system for all it’s warts if analyzed objectively is a way to make secondary education useful in the context of employment. It is also a way to build up our human capital by creating better trained individuals. I remember a rant from one of my electrical engineering professors saying there is no f@cking college algebra, its just algebra and you should have already been through 1-2 classes before college. He was lamenting how little time we had to study the core subjects because highschool stuff is being crammed in college.
But I lose my thought again. If we create a norm and a support system to help less fortunate students finish secondary education then they will at least have the fighting chance at getting good employment. The K-12 move is trying to address not the problems of Private School student and Public School achievers rather it is trying to give a fighting chance to the ordinary bloke who has no chance of going to college.
In a way makati is not the leader in social services reform in the country. The makati way is throw money at the problem and don’t be creative.
The lack of a in city social housing/mass transport initiatives from the makati LGU shows us what happens when what Binay can do with a problem that is beyond his budget and would require coordination between lots of stakeholders. Which is in a work NOTHING.
If Davao can dream of a rail system why can’t 20 years of Binay produce it or even plan for it?
I’ll try to address number 3 later
Thanks for explaining, and I am looking forward to Number 3.
Masa summary: anong mapapala ninyo kay Binay, hanggang pabaon lang iyan, mga pulubi ba kayo? Tignan ninyo ang nagawa ni Noynoy, may Philhealth kayo, hindi kayo baon sa utang kapag nagkasakit, may K-12 para may maabot ang mga anak ninyo.
Davao is dreaming of a rail system? Did Duterte also start that?
Koreans proposed it to Duterte and the Council.
3. As I’ve started with number 2 the present admin has utilized the projects started by GMA and expanded it without incurring significant debt because of prudent and less corrupt spending. Basically If these projects were classically corrupt we wouldn’t be seeing the level of spending, monitoring, and introspection and analysis that we get.
Major projects:
Disaster Response and Preparedness Projects:
Project NOAH
DREAM-LiDAR project
Disaster Preparation as implemented by Mar Roxas of the DILG
Waterways clearance projects with in city relocation as implemented by Mar Roxas of the DILG and SHFC.
National Security Projects:
AFP Modernization.
PNP Modernization
BBL???
Transport Infrastructure:
Build Extend Rehabilitate all the roads in the Philippines in 2015
Improvements of Airports and Seaports
If we only go by AFP and PNP modernization we can safely say that no president has been able to do more for modernizing the AFP and the PNP and this move protects us all. The rich, the middle class and the poor. (If you are a cynic you could easily state that this protects the rich more because they have more to protect)
There is no class divide during massive disasters such as Yolanda, and the advocacy of disaster preparedness and tools/systems that I can safely say was started even before the Yolanda disaster will save more lives as the specter of climate change affects us more.
Project NOAH and the DREAM LiDAR projects are internationally recognized projects that have been utilized in disaster preparedness planning that is open to everyone with an internet connection.
The DSWD and Philhealth angle I have previously wrote about.
I have to be honest PiE I am having trouble in finding significant evidence that is specific to number 3. This is because a rising tide lifts all boats and it seems that the President save for righting some wrongs (coco levy fund/disaster victims) work for all of us. He is not the president of the Rich/Poor/InBetweens. He is the president of the Philippines that has instituted a lot of reforms that have rocked the foundations of corruptions in institutions like the DPWH, the BIR and the BOC.
His achievements is creating the bedrock where a strong republic may rise. He has shown us what we can do and buy when corruption is not as rampant. And in such an environment the Business people are the ones who benefit a lot.
One of my criticism against PNoy is that in the advocacy of crossing all t’s and dotting all the i’s the glacial progress of bidding out projects leave much to be desired. This bordering on insane desire to get the best deal for the government discounts the time value of these projects. In being too straight some of the people who could have been saved have been left to fend for themselves. But this is nitpicking and even I can admit this.
And maybe this is the weak case against PNoy that he could have done more but this is just more nitpicking.
Sorry PiE I think for true reform to be successful in our country we need a supreme court filled with people of substance and principle. The oligarchic interest in the country is still being well served by the SC and other organs of the government. In this sense if we are kind to the president we say that he picked his battles while if we are unkind to him we say that he didn’t have the balls to go against big business.
Except he did in Mining and Infrastructure but not in anything I can recall right now.
baha, lindol, pulis, militar, pamahalaan… thanks for the good listing.
We are looking at the selling points to the masa and these are the ones.
The thing is, the masa are not stupid, but the time perspective is lacking in future sense – understandable with people who are not used to having much future, they live only in the present and it is hard to get them to “bilib” that there is a chance for the future – unless one shows them this is what has already been done and try to give them an idea of how it could go on. It is hard of course to explain things. People used to hardship think differently.
But I will keep my promise – I will go to some Internet forums where the real Binay people are, will listen to them, ask them why, try to see things with their eyes and then I will go and challenge their assumptions to get them thinking – if they want to think of course.
Actually I will do the same thing there that I have done here. It is part of my virtual journey back to the country I left, to understand what has become of it with helpful distance. After my journey into that area, I will come back and let you guys know about my experience.
Challenging people’s assumptions to get them thinking is always useful, no matter what comes out of it in the end. The final result will depend on the people themselves, the sum total of those who comprise the country. But better than just acting on reflexes.
My mentality is not that of a Black Hat hacker, it has always been White Hat. And I am not pro-Aquino, anti-Aquino anything, I am only pro-Philippines if ever. Anyway see you guys around, I am taking a longer trip…
Anyway, this information is much more substantial than what I usually read here that PNoy is a good president. I also am happy that Joe is writing a blog about the numbers that PNoy has delivered. So it does pay to be makulit like me sometimes.
Actually, the numbers are apolitical, and there are only two. But they can be used as the basis of smart political decisions.
@PiE
1) BBL –
I will not presume to know or understand everything in that voluminous draft law…i will depend on the constitutionalists, our lawmakers and legal luminaries to scrutinize that so I can be enlightened. The idea is good, it needs to be accepted by the whole citizenry and not rejected outright without further discussion, debate even. I will step back, listen and learn, pray hard that we can have something to achieve permanent peace, progress to Mindanao and our Muslim and Christian brothers out there without sacrificing sovereignty, without violating our constitution. For that, I will bow to the wisdom of the learned but will voice out my own take on each and every issue that will come up for discussion.
2). Social services
Gian has discussed it so well, I will only add some practical applications. I have partly adopted my 70 year old aunt and 95 year old grandma who both have health issues now. For this reason, I could not help that much my other destitute relatives in the province except to gift them with groceries and rice from time to time, not regular handouts, as they can still work as carpenters, painters and labanderas, as they are still relatively young and able bodied. The government is doing all it can to alleviate their poverty, most of them are recipients of the cash conditional transfer program, dengue hospital coverage of philhealth is 8,000 pesos for ordinary cases, I think double for critical ones, philhealth coverage is mandatory for the elderlies and senior citizens, free education is implemented, seminars and monitoring are regularly done to implement properly the CCT, like regular checkups for pregnant mothers and the students and the young, regular attendance in schools is strictly monitored also. Senior citizens are being given allowances, christmas gifts and funeral benefits.
3. All these are being done, costs being shouldered by the annual budget allocations, the business climate is being monitored to level the playing field, inflation is under control, investment grade rating is encouraging…thanks to our Central Bank officials, our technocrats in the finance and trade departments, (Mar included)…..all these will trickle down to the poor if they will only do their part to improve themselves and not join the perpetual whiners and haters out there.
Thanks, PiE for trying to understand where we are coming from, I really appreciate that.
Funny how many here have jumped on the bandwagon of describing those who call a spade a spade to be politicking, divisive, focused on blaming/fingerpointing, etc. when in fact all these acts can be rolled into 1 person and that is the president eversince he took the helm. Worse some here have even gone the lengths of identifying/associating with Binay all those who criticize PNoy’s mistakes as participative citizenry should anyway. 🙂
We definitely mourn the Mamasapano deaths and the sacrifices of our gallant men. If there’s another big thing exposed by their deaths, it is the self-serving, treasonous, unconstitutional BBL that PNoy wants to shove down our throat. We definitely want long-lasting peace but not in the form of this highly questionable BBL and the proponents behind it.
“If there’s another big thing exposed by their deaths, it is the self-serving, treasonous, unconstitutional BBL that PNoy wants to shove down our throat. We definitely want long-lasting peace but not in the form of this highly questionable BBL and the proponents behind it.”
That’s why the draft law is in Congress, for them to scrutinize it, remove the unconstitutional parts, invite the constitutional experts for help, then enact it if it is to the satisfaction of every stakeholders. You’re writing as if PNOY is a dictator, like Marcos who “shoved his Constitution down our throats” and if reports are to be believed, had a queer verbal ratification of it via pictures of groups of people holding up their hands when asked do you want your lunch served now, raise your hands if you do.
And it is obvious that you have not read in full the thread regarding those who “have even gone the lengths of identifying/associating with Binay all those who criticize PNoy’s mistakes.” Please read them all from the last time you posted here and engaged JoeAm and Edgar Lores in a debate regarding Andrew’s article which you considered argumentum ad hominem.
Andrew’s article is not just my consideration as argumentum ad hominem. IT IS in fact ad hominem. 🙂
Obvious that I didn’t read the full thread? The reason I used “many” is because I have READ and am challenging the several comments by different people here.
If I don’t come across to you as agreeable doesn’t mean I haven’t read enough. And that also doesn’t mean all the posts/comments by those who lean more towards supporting Aquino (on seemingly almost everything 🙂 ) I disagree with. I call out what I think needs to be called out as my own bit of helping keep different perspectives heard.
Zat, please don’t mind if I don’t respond to your remarks. It is pretty evident that you arrive to speak and not to listen or reflect. It is fruitless to enter discussion because your view is hard and your aim is to make sure we know the correct way. You are welcome to make your statements, as long as they are respectfully stated. If you set out to challenge everyone with whom you disagree, then that is not the kind of debate that I want to see here.
I have always been respectful wherever I am even as I challenge another person’s views…Probably that reminder is suited more to Edgar Lores who has a penchant more for dismissive remarks against other readers here rather than focusing on the arguments. If I take the position to call a spade a spade and/or disagree with your or others’ views here doesn’t make me any less.
How quick are you though to dismiss me as someone who arrive just to speak and not listen? I read the article, read the comments and reply where I feel I need to give my views on. There are views/articles posted here that I agree with as in the past and there are those that I don’t. I am not the kind who patronizes or sugarcoats but I always do my best to maintain a respectful tone. But tell me Joe if this site is really just for those who agree with you.
Looks like I have attracted dissenters, thus causing an epidemic of dysentry.
It is for people of any perspective as long as arguments are respectfully presented. I personally get tired of being bludgeoned by ideas from people who are out to win arguments rather than listen and learn, as a part of the mix. I hear the same thing over and over again. I run out of energy. Others are free to engage with you, but I thought you ought to hear from me why I am not engaging. As expected, you reject the explanation.
“I personally get tired of being bludgeoned by ideas from people who are out to win arguments rather than listen and learn” giancarloangulo has given me some answers that are very useful and very enlightening. He is going to give me more.
I am not out to win arguments, but I do insistently ask questions to clarify stuff. True to my lifetime reputation of being makulit. Someone has to be Devil’s Advocate.
Really now? You wouldn’t think we are so naive to not put into consideration the obvious and what’s happening behind the scenes too in getting the lawmakers to decide on this?
You attend the session and take part in the discussion / hearings, point out all your concerns…. We are also concerned on some aspects of the draft BBL law, we all should participate and expose any irregularity by the lawmakers, shame them if necessary, and if it is truly unconstitutional, the SC will rule against it, and then, it will die, , hopefully another way can be made to address the imperfections so it can be resuscitated so lasting peace can be attained.
Exactly. I see three groups in Philippine politics now:
1. Ostriches who are in denial.
2. Alarmists and opportunists.
3. Realistic risk managers.
And two major issues at stake:
A. Corruption
B. Moroland
Now let me see how people with certain allegiances are:
Pro-Noynoy: Ostriches about Moroland, Alarmists about Corruption
Anti-Noynoy: Alarmists about Moroland, Ostriches about Corruption
Those who are realistic risk managers get caught between the duality of Pros and Antis.
Ostriches…hmmm it was a common belief that they bury their head to avoid danger.As if the predator eats everything as long as they don’t touch the head the ostrich will stay alive.
Actually it is just the same as playing possum.
Some also say that it is a way to get more minerals to keep them healthy.
What ever it is I don’t see the analogy of Ostriches in denial.
What’s to deny about Moroland..That it is bereft of good faith, deceptive,short change deal and the whole shebang.
My golly you talk about risk analysis by declaring it is risky because of your SWOT analysis.
You throw away the advantages and even the disadvantages of the product,which in this case the BBL, why because of the years of terrorism,arms smuggling,,kidnap for ransom, impunity,etc which are all threats.
because of threats you fail to consider the Opportunities like disarmament which means more weapons(to smuggle joke), rebel returness who adds to peace keeping.
and if true that moorland is a goldmine let them enjoy it first and ask them to share later.
they need all the money for development.
The only way to share that is through joint exploration.
Like in west Philippine sea if we listened to MVP. we had a share of oil there, but no we want the Chinese out, as if we can keep them out.
BBL needs:
– some heavy amendments
– well-defined implementation plan
Then it will be OK.
But the way it is now NO.
I have no objection to that..
You are devoid of any credibility since at the outset you had already been a Noynoy hater.
There you go…If I don’t agree with PNoy, I am a Noynoy hater. 🙂
And “you are incredible” to say it like some masa. Just like I am “fantastic” = fantasizing for asking hard and valid questions.
Zat Cruz, Jolly was right. You are indeed a Noynoy hater, not because you disagree with him but because you are accusing him of committing a treasonous act by his endorsement of the BBL as if you’re qualified to decide on that and not the court of law. You hate the president, clear as day.
“self-serving, treasonous, unconstitutional BBL that PNoy wants to shove down our throat. We definitely want long-lasting peace but not in the form of this highly questionable BBL”
Zat, if you are interested in writing an analysis about the BBL, I am sure Joe will publish it. He has been open to publish different views. I have not had the time to truly analyze BBL so I do not feel qualified to write yet. But what I have seen so far is not really convincing.
Any other takers, if you please? But anyway we have time until June, so don’t worry.
http://www.manilalivewire.com/2015/03/up-law-expert-the-lies-of-the-bangsamoro-basic-law/ -interesting article on the BBL:
All I can say is that it is an act tantamount to secession.
– The law categorically describes all inhabitants within the BBL controlled land as Bangsamoro. Not Filipino. Bangsamoro. … (Art 2 section 1 of the BBL Draft)…
– … the BBL establishes the core component of a state based government, asceding only coordinating power to the Republic. Sections 3 and 4 of Article V of BBL…
– Article VII describes the creation of the Bangsamoro government, with full legislative and executive powers. Section 2 allows the legislative arm to enact LAWS, not ordinances..
– Article XI… Bangsamoro Police Force is under PNP. However, the Chief minister of the Bangsamoro has, categorically, complete control… don’t try to run to Camp Crame for resolution…
– … the Bangsamoro Government has complete fiscal autonomy … 75% of the collections direct to the Bangsamoro coffers. The remaining 25% is for the republic, however the Bangsamoro is to retain the amount for 10 years. Congress has no control…
http://www.opapp.gov.ph/resources/draft-bangsamoro-basic-law – for your perusal:
Article II Bangsamoro Identity
Section 1. Bangsamoro people. – Those who at the time of conquest and colonization were considered native or original inhabitants of Mindanao and the Sulu archipelago and its adjacent islands including Palawan, and their descendants…
Article V Powers of Government
Section 3. Exclusive Powers – Exclusive powers are matters over which authority and jurisdiction shall pertain to the Bangsamoro Government..
4. Trade, industry, investment, enterprises and regulation of businesses..
7. Barter trade and countertrade with ASEAN countries;…
Article XI Public Order and Safety
Section 14. The relationship between the Bangsamoro Police and the national support services of the Philippine National Police shall be determined by the intergovernmental relations body.
any further material is welcome, here or later.
I do think the discussion of the BBL is healthy but would suggest it be done under the auspice of a separate blog. This one is about Grace Poe and this discussion takes it off tangent. The blog thread is already too long for convenient read.
http://www.angmalaya.net/nation/2015/03/17/9605-mohagher-iqbal-signed-comprehensive-agreement-on-the-bangsamoro-with-a-fake-name
“What other concealment, deceptions and hidden secrets are behind the peace agreement? No wonder our officials in the Bureau of Immigration could not find any travel records belonging to Mohagher Iqbal because that is not his real name. So please tell us for the sake of transparency what is the real name of Mohagher Iqbal?” the Davao City representative added.
Philippine government chief peace negotiator Miriam Coronel Ferrer said that they are aware that Mohagher Iqbal is not a real name. “On the matter of passports, we know that Mohagher Iqbal is not the real name, we’ve known it all along. He even has a pen name.”
Please hold the BBL discussion for a separate blog. It is off topic for this already lengthy discussion.
OK, will collect material and then maybe I will write an article. Or comment in an appropriate blog.
It amazes me that no major tabloid noticed that impeachment remark.
I hope the Senate inquiry is not aimed at finding fault on the President and other officials but rather, the goal is to find out whether it is right or not right to blame the officials due to the fact that carrying out a mission is a norm and permitted by law.
I hope each senator who dissents or has expressed reservations will document their disagreements with the Poe draft. Senator Aquino has, his main concern being his belief that that the recommendations on BBL are outside the purpose of the committee. He is pro BBL and doesn’t want to see it criticized. He is fine with responsibility being laid on President Aquino.
I wonder how the Senate report could be passed if some Senators refuse to sign it. Will that have a strong effect in Congressional hearing if Congress decides to accept the report? I don’t know how it is gonna play out. I’ll try searching too in the past Congressional hearings in US & EU. I hope I find some answers, opinions.
There is a month for it to play out before the Senate resumes to finalize the report in May. It takes 13 senators to pass it. For those who want the military/defense power of the President maintained, it is time to work the channels directly to individual senators. The focus of the report should be on LESSONS AND LEGISLATION, not culpability. Culpability is for the Ombudsman and courts.
“…..there is nothing that the President should be sorry about and he should be well advised not to do it.” – Micha
========
Really? Of course there are several reasons Pres. Aquino should apologize for. Let me enumerate them.
1. He utilized the service of Purisima, a suspended police officer, in the running of the operation. There is an official order of suspension, but still, the President went on and engaged the service of the person subject of that suspension.
2. He kept several key officials in the dark with regard to Oplan Exodus. The DILG secretary, the PNP-OIC, et.al were cut off from and have zero knowledge of an operation supposed to be under their jurisdiction.
3. He was in the center of the planning and strategizing of the operation and he has direct contact with the principal actors (Napenas, Purisima, et.al.) who are now in the hot seat for the debacle which caused the death of 44 PNP-SAF.
4. There was an apparent delay in the reaction of Malacanang in the aftermath of the massacre giving impression that the President is not aware of what happened only to later on, after negative reaction from the public and some officials, admit that he knew and was involved in the planning of it.
I mean, as the leader of the country, the father of the nation, the Commander-in-Chief, Pres. Aquino has a lot of reasons to apologize for. And what is wrong in an apology the chief purpose of which is to admit accountability? Men of greater stature in history have apologized for their mistakes, shortcomings and personal weaknesses. Why can’t PNoy do the same?
PNoy is lucky he can still swallow his pride and move on and be president up to the end of his term. Back in civilian life, he’ll be able to smell the flowers again and be his own boss again or probably start a family. In other words, the future is waiting for him.
The same cannot be said of the 44 dead PNP-SAF.
If a president apologized every time he took a position that others disagreed with – people who have neither the information nor the responsibilities nor advice that he has – it would be a pretty weak and incompetent president. The better approach is to seek information, not apologies. To demand apologies is such a needy place to be. Requiring Presidents to take care of your emotions.
Apology, in PNoy’s case, is not simply about ‘disagreement with others’. Irrespective of whether or not those others have the information, responsibilities or advice, the President has to offer an apology because of the unfortunate event that resulted in the operation that he masterminded. It’s what accountability is all about. That is inherent in the nature of a leader’s authority and influence. One who leads should be prepared to account for such in winning or losing. Celebrate in victory, solemn in defeat.
A weak and incompetent president is one who is ready to celebrate success but hesitate to even imagine failure. A weak and incompetent president is one who is preoccupied with sitting pretty than standing up ugly to confront an unpleasant situation.
Joe, sometimes I entertain the idea that PNoy, having to grow up with girls or women around him while the only man in his life is in incarceration, has somewhat rubbed in him too much femininity and made him look, appreciate and perceive things and situations with more feminine perspective.
The “pakipot” manner, which when a person deliberately refuse, withhold or withdraw his/her emotion by reason of displeasing or offensive situation in spite of call for acquiescence or admission, more often than not is an effeminate demeanor in Filipino society.
PNoy was right in his refusal to say sorry to China for the Luneta hostage-taking because it has nothing to do with his leadership nor any participation on his part. It was a criminal happening that an apology is not really essential. The Mamasapano raid is where an apology is important because it is not merely a criminal matter but an official government action where the man on top of the planning and execution of the operation is the President himself.
I say to Pres. Aquino, save the country from further agony, be a true leader and stop making pakipot. Man up, sir, man up!
No apology needed, all he has to do is take the full responsibility saying sorry is different from saying I made a mistake. No more discussion the buck stops with me, ergo no more debate.
Did you change your attitude towards GMA since she said sorry? Did Poe or any of the Poe voters felt better? Became the 2004 election fraud irrelevant? Any good legislation resulted from the sorry?
So why should Pnoy do the same?
Because PNoy is the opposite of GMA. Or so I thought.
Legislation? 😦
*******
Jameboy,
You are right: President Aquino is the opposite of GMA.
He is judging himself by his intentions… and his actions and his words are consistent with his intentions, which are good as he sees them.
In this case, his presidential intention (to preserve law and order) aligned with the objective of Oplan Exodus (to arrest and, if necessary, neutralize foreign and local terrorists).
You would have to agree the intention was good and the objective was lawful.
This is why the President should NOT say sorry.
On the other hand in the Garci Affair, one would have to say that GMA’s objective (to win) and her intention (to cheat), both taken together were dishonorable — and I use that word lightly.
GMA was aware of this and that is why she said sorry.
To (a) see a parallel between a lawful President who green-lighted (and not “masterminded”) a licit act and an unlawful President who succeeded in doing an illicit act; and (b) to ask the lawful President to say sorry for that licit act (which was partly successful although at the expense of many lives on both sides of the divide)… are myopic.
***
Mastermind: plan and direct (an ingenious and complex scheme or enterprise).
*****
You would have to agree the intention was good and the objective was lawful.
This is why the President should NOT say sorry. edgar l.
========
Simply out of context.
It’s like telling me that the father who told his 2 1/2 years old son to walk 20 steps from here to there and when the son stumble, hit his head on the floor because the Dad (knowing the floor is not even) gave no warning and got bukol in the process will never get a sorry from hid dad because his intention and objective was good.
That’s what we’re going to each our young, irrespective of errors or mistakes or violation, as long as your intention and objective is good and lawful DON’T SAY SORRY?
You readers be the judge. 🙂
Edgar is correct. You don’t apologize to your son every time your son stumbles while teaching him how to walk.
People who demand apologies are needy. An apology should be given, not asked for. And a person who believes he did the right things for the nation should NEVER apologize for upholding his oath honorably.
*******
Hear! Hear!
*****
An apology should be given, not asked for.
========
Apology should be given voluntarily, I agree. But one wonders, why is it that situation developed to a point when people are forced to demand, ask or even extract, for want of a better word, an apology on someone who could have given it voluntarily in the first place?
And a person who believes he did the right things for the nation should NEVER apologize for upholding his oath honorably.
========
Depends on the outcome of what one did. If it is a success let’s all celebrate life. If it brought sadness and despair because lives were lost, apologizing for it will not make you a lesser man. It will only justify your humanity.
Yes, it is a little complex when we build in the President’s responsibility to give assurances to the citizens, and an apology would do that. I am confident he did not want that terrible Mamasapano outcome, and he did all within his knowledge (which was poor because he was given band information) to do what was right. I don’t think the public should be writing the President’s speeches, but he should be skilled at uplifting his people.
So far the President’s performance has been short of skilled.
GMA was aware of this (Garci tapes) and that is why she said sorry. – edgar l.
==========
That one is not out of context. Worse, it’s twisting the facts.
GMA did not say sorry because she was “AWARE” of the Garci tapes. No, that is changing history. She said sorry because EVERYBODY knew she masterminded it and people were mad and lots of stress all around because of the call for her to resign, be impeach or be ousted.
And let me tell you why I thought PNoy was the opposite of Gloria.
Sorry in PNoy’s case does not necessarily mean an admission of mistake but an expression of shock in the tragedy that befall the 44 PNP-SAF. It is a statement of the Chief of Staff, the President, OUR leader, the father of the nation of his disappointment and sorrow for the unfortunate outcome of the Oplan Exodus. It is an act whereby the President concretely and clearly demonstrates to all of us who are mourning that he is ONE WITH US.
Ignoring the call for his to come to terms and admit, that like other leaders, then and now, he made a mistake can be taken that he is really NOT WITH THE PEOPLE in this time of grief and sorrow.
One last thing, I’m not asking PNoy to apologize. I’m wishing he does.
Thanks for the last line. It is a big, big distinction. The problem hereabouts, with a vindictive audience that includes crooks and political opponents and leftists, they will take an apology as an acknowledgment of complicity in the deaths, and file for impeachment on the basis of President Aquino’s “confession”.
Just to be clear. I don’t agree with the call for PNoy to resign. It is wrong and not the solution. Impeachment is nonsense. Do I prefer PNoy to continue and end his watch accordingly? Absolutely.
Do I think the President made a mistake in the way the operation ended? Yes. Do I think he should apologize for what happened under his authority and jurisdiction? I am convince he should. Do I think an apology will diminish or undermine his authority? No. In the greater scheme of things it may even help him in a positive way.
The President opted to stick to what he think is best for him and not necessarily for the country. Fine with me. 🙂
*******
Jameboy,
There you go reading minds again.
You mean she was not aware what she did was dishonorable? And was not apologizing in part for that?
She was only apologizing because people found out?
That’s not a sincere apology.
And how do you know she was not aware she did wrong?
*****
I’m not going there again edgar. 🙂 Nope.
GMA is old school. Go back to the present.
*******
Jameboy,
When you present an argument and make a claim, you are supposed to substantiate that claim.
If you cannot, you are making a false claim.
By the way, thank you for delighting me with that iskul-bukol false analogy.
*****
When you present an argument and make a claim, you are supposed to substantiate that claim. – edgar l.
========
I did. I even ended it up by saying, “That’s what we’re going to TEACH our young, irrespective of errors or mistakes or violation, as long as your intention and objective is good and lawful DON’T SAY SORRY?”
Bert said you are correct and then run away. 🙂
*******
Jameboy,
Concentrate!
If you follow the thread of our discussion, the claim I am referring to is this: “GMA did not say sorry because she was “AWARE” of the Garci tapes… She said sorry because EVERYBODY knew she masterminded it and people were mad and lots of stress all around because of the call for her to resign, be impeach or be ousted.”
Specifically, I am referring to your first sentence.
*****
I’m here jameboy.
And you haven’t yet substantiated your claim as requested by Edgar. Instead here’s what you said, “”I’m not going there again edgar. 🙂 Nope.
GMA is old school. Go back to the present.””
I did not run away, you did. Which means that Edgar was correct again, not once but twice, :).
Bert, and you run again. 🙂
“…to ask the lawful President to say sorry for that licit act (which was partly successful although at the expense of many lives on both sides of the divide)… ”
========
Another twist. The call for the President to say sorry was not about the legality of the operation but for the unfortunate outcome of it.
*******
Jameboy,
I can give no better reply than this quote: “And a person who believes he did the right things for the nation should NEVER apologize for upholding his oath honorably.”
*****
Yes, just like Gloria Arroyo thinking that cheating will be good for the nation should not have apologized. Like Clinton who think it’s good for the nation that the President get’s top jack off in the White House should not have apologized.
If massacre will befall our men and women in uniform, every year, that’s fine, because someone in the Palace believes he’s doing right with the nation.
Huh! Bert, somebody needs assistance. And please, stop running and quit parroting. Stand on your own feet and argue YOUR OWN view. Don’t be an usisero and make sabong edgar. 🙂
*******
Jameboy,
GMA apologized because she was aware that what she did was wrong. And her apology was rightly so.
The President need not apologize in this case because the intention was good and the objective was lawful.
Your reason for wishing the President to say sorry is emotive and does not consider the intention and the objective.
In certain circumstances, saying sorry has legal ramifications. It may be construed as an admission of guilt.
If I echo someone’s argument, it is because it is cogent. We have to stress the argument to you again and again — and again if necessary — so that you understand it and internalize it.
Listen, Jameboy, listen
*****
jameboy, do you understand the distinction between issue and person making the argument? Just because someone disagrees with you does not make them a flawed individual. It just means they have a different experience set that you might explore, rather than figure they are flawed. Bert is not the coward you suggest. Nor is Edgar an adolescent. Please read the terms and conditions of the blog that require respectful argument.
With due respect, Joe, I respect everybody here. I may disagree often to what others are saying but I don’t think your allegation towards me is proper.
I understand the distinction between issue and person. I did not suggest Bert was a coward. I said he run. There’s a big difference there. That maybe his style, hit and run and entice others by parroting their lines without even adding an iota of their own. Look, I write, most of the time in paragraphs, at least I try to do. Not easy for someone who is not as articulate and as fluent as you or even PInoyInEurope. And here comes Bert with his two or three sentences which is really bereft of ideas he can call his own that I cannot even say he’s trying to engage or what. Let me quote,
“Edgar is correct. You don’t apologize to your son every time your son stumbles while teaching him how to walk.” – Bert
So, how do you respond to that? He parroted someone’s idea and that’s it. Is he a coward? I don’t know. Others will say it’s trolling. I was waiting for more elaboration but none came. So, that could be his style, hit then run. And when I repeated my impression about his style, he came back exactly with nothing and I quote again,
“I’m here jameboy.
And you haven’t yet substantiated your claim as requested by Edgar. Instead here’s what you said, “”I’m not going there again edgar. 🙂 Nope.
GMA is old school. Go back to the present.””
I did not run away, you did. Which means that Edgar was correct again, not once but twice, :).” – Bert
This time, he parroted my response to edgar. It appears he’s trying to fit edgar against me by provoking a spark between us with him on the side of edgar. Fine, there are people like that. No discussion, no elaboration, not even an attempt for justification to reason and enrich the discussion by sharing their own. Is that cowardice, who knows? Is it trolling? To others maybe but to me I called it hit and run. I even said it in a jocular way because there is nothing you can do in those kind comments but respond in a tongue-in-cheek manner.
It’s just unfortunate that you saw it otherwise and not bother to review the roots of it.
With regard to edgar, I was referring to his view and not to his person and I even inquired by saying “if” he is I apologize and respect what he’s said and urge that we move on. Let me repeat it here.
“I can understand SUCH VIEW coming from an adoslescent short of experience and knowledge who is trying to test his mettle by engaging others without regard to the strength of HIS VIEWS or absence of it. IF that pretty much describes you or who you are, I RESPECT IT AND LET’S MOVE ON.”
You can look back and see how our discussion flow which most of the time I’m the one focusing on the topic and edgar tfocusing on another which I call as I see them and elaborate and explain why.
Joe, I think edgar can dish it out and take it as well. Nothing personal there simply a clash of viewpoints.
Well, maybe Bert needs to weigh in as to whether your remark about running was aimed at character or the issue. Both Edgar and I read your remark to him as about character rather than issue. Perhaps you don’t know that words are taken differently than you intended?
As to the issue of apology, I found Bam Aquino’s view on it interesting. He DOES take issue with the matter of the Poe Report’s wording on the matter of the President’s responsibility, so that is good. And in the last paragraph of the article, he points out the double-edged sword of apology, that people would simply accuse the President of trying to get his ratings up if he apologized. I’d guess that he is right.
http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/680486/cousin-bam-aquino-ultimately-responsible
And on re-reading your remarks, I’d say you still do not have clarity of the distinction between issue and personality. You are mainly discussing character, and that is not the point of this blog. It is to discuss issue.
I have yet to read Bam’s issue but I’m not going to be surprise because he’s a relative of the President. I’ll do the ‘reservation’ too just to make sure my relative understand my position. What surprised me really was he went along with the report. I’m sure there are observers out there taking note of it.
@Jameboy, well, if he was working in tandem with President Aquino, why in the world would he sign the document? Indeed, if you follow Bam Aquino, you will find that he is very independent, very bright, and very focused on the well-being of the Philippines. He is one of the least political senators in the chamber. His comment on apology shows that is is not a simple matter, that President Aquino should just apologize and that would satisfy critics. It would not.
Because critics DO have a political agenda, and will twist anything the President does inside out.
Working in tandem? Never even imply that. I focus on the aspect of relationship and Bam’s intent to be clear on that and his professional decision in going along with the report.
With regard to apology, I posted about it on the end of this blog.
jameboy, you’re so hard to understand in spite of your eloquence. You mentioned an analogy of the stumbling son, asking your reader to be the judge, I complied, and as a judge my judgement was that Edgar was correct. There is no sense in apologizing to a 21/2 year-old boy, firstly because he can’t understand yet the meaning of it. Secondly that a boy that young is prone to falling down, how absurd could it get for a father to keep on apologizing every time, and thirdly, teaching your son how to walk is not worth apologizing for. Of course I will not argue with you if you want to do it. Finally you accused me of running away. Why should I run away? Do you think, because you are very good in English and I’m not I should run away from discussing this thing with you? Wake up, you are dreaming.
Bert, you understand me that is why you told me I was wrong. You disagree with me because you understand I was ‘wrong’ and edgar was right. People who do not understand asks questions. Which you did not do.
Yes, I said you ran. But that was the message I got in your two-sentence ‘hit and run’ post. If I hurt your feelings by me saying that I apologize. I should have ignored it and remain cordial with you.
Anyway, thanks for initiating an engagement based on my “2 1/2 years old boy” example. It’s obvious that you reduce it to simply about ‘understanding’ of one who was at the receiving end and not about how one feels and reacts if he caused something unpleasant. Of course we do talk to kids and babies. Whether they understand it or not doesn’t matter. As long as we express our love and happiness for them, understanding or not we don’t care.
With a 2 1/2 kid, we do the same thing and more because they can appreciate feelings more than babies. We know that. For you to imply to ignore a kid by not communicating nor explaining what just happened is unrealistic.
“And a person who believes he did the right things for the nation should NEVER apologize for upholding his oath honorably.” – edgar l.
========
I know you are taking that stance to defend PNoy against criticisms. But you don’t realize you are doing it wrong and you are doing a disservice to the President by holding a myopic (the real one) view. You are defenseless on such kind of view.
Just because you believe you are doing the right thing does not justify you to do it and offer no apology if it turned out that it was wrong or it failed. Okay, for the sake of discussion, let us say it make sense. You think Hitler is right in what he believes and he went ahead and killed million of people? Same with Marcos when he decided to be the one-man rule system and oppressed a lot of people and subvert the system? Same with Gloria in believing that cheating to remain in power is right? Same thing thing with Erap in believing he and Chavit will have a lot of moola in preserving their conspiracy to commit corruption? Really?
Where or what in history can you give an example about believing what is right and never to apologize for it no matter what? Isis? Al-Qaeda? Abu Sayyaff?
edgar, it is one thing to defend the President by perceptive and intelligent logic and it’s another thing to do it by weak and lame ideas that has no legs to stand on. It’s not a pretty sight to see one who struggles and twists just so to put up a defense or a semblance of it without even injecting decent rationale or persuasive reasoning. I can understand such view coming from an adoslescent short of experience and knowledge who is trying to test his mettle by engaging others without regard to the strength of his views or absence of it. If that pretty much describes you or who you are, I respect it and let’s move on.
Let me offer my apology, too. 😦
*******
Jameboy,
Sorry. Like Zat you are moving into the area of ad hominem arguments.
Apart from pointing this out, I do not respond to such fallacies.
*****
*******
P.S. Jameboy, you may not know it so I will spell it out for you. When you resort to ad hominems, you lose the argument, the discussion and the debate.
*****
P.S. Jameboy, you may not know it so I will spell it out for you. When you resort to ad hominems, you lose the argument, the discussion and the debate. edgar l.
========
edgar, you are not arguing, you are lecturing. Call my posts whatever you want to call it. I have no control of that. I can only control my end.
You want to emphasizes your point about Gloria Arroyo’s “I’m sorry”, go ahead but just to remind you there is nothing similar with Gloria and PNoy for us to spend 4 or 5 posts more just to try to analogize the two.
I know where you’re coming from (defend PNoy at all cause) and I respect that. But you simply cannot do it with your
“a person who believes he did the right things for the nation should NEVER apologize…”
You are practically giving refuge to every scoundrel in the world with that kind of theory.
I disagree. 😦
jameboy, as to the issue of Pres. Noynoy not apologizing, here I have to disappoint you.
You had blown it so out of proportion that I think there is no more point arguing with you on the matter since comparing it to the likes of Gloria’s cheating, the ISIS brutality, to Hitler, on to other more despicable characters, is tantamount to hatred of the president of such proportionate magnitude that I think no person in his right mind could agree with you except the most rabid of Pnoy haters thus your rationale on the matter being discussed could be affected already. I can’t oblige you on that, I’m sorry.
Yes, I agree with you on that.
“1. He utilized the service of Purisima, a suspended police officer, in the running of the operation. There is an official order of suspension, but still, the President went on and engaged the service of the person subject of that suspension.
2. He kept several key officials in the dark with regard to Oplan Exodus. The DILG secretary, the PNP-OIC, et.al were cut off from and have zero knowledge of an operation supposed to be under their jurisdiction.
3. He was in the center of the planning and strategizing of the operation and he has direct contact with the principal actors (Napenas, Purisima, et.al.) who are now in the hot seat for the debacle which caused the death of 44 PNP-SAF. ”
Two questions remain:
– why is Noynoy bending over so much to accomodate the MILF/BBL?
– could it be that Noynoy over-accomodated the USA by ordering Mamasapano?
Contrast that with his extreme vindictiveness towards those from rival political parties in the capital and there is a very strange picture. A picture that is unclarified and feeds doubt.
When I was about four or five years old, I used to visit my maternal grandparents in Jolo, Sulu. Despite my youth, I could already appreciate that Jolo was an enchanting place with its white beaches and its friendly people. I used to peer out from the ventanillas installed in my grandmother’s house ( I was a bit too short then to open the capiz windows) and saw the hustle and bustle of people going about their business on our street.
I was able to go home again in the early 1970s before chaos broke out and burned down the house of my grandparents. That was the last time I would ever see our family home and the last time that I would see the land of so many promises.
Before anyone jumps to conclusions, no, I am not Tausug nor a Muslim, although they used the term “tau sug” to refer to anyone who was from Jolo regardless of ethnic origin or religion. In fact, my maternal grandparents were Chinese immigrants from Xiamen. My grandfather established his business in Jolo and chose to settle there.
I was hoping that with a peace accord, going back would be a possibility after more than four decades. With BBL scuttled, I would be dead before peace would reign in the land of so much promise.
Thank you for that view from the real world. It means so much more than the intellectual speculations of those of us who really don’t know the situation there.
I also want to go home after such a long time, to a country where there is political peace, where there is a real republic and not a dictatorship or an oligarchic pseudo-democracy.
I do NOT want to go home to a country where a badly constructed “peace” gives radical groups an opportunity to do what their kind are doing in Syria and elsewhere.
I do NOT want to have to face my clients and business associates in Europe who hear about Islamic terrorists from the Philippines – and then place me in the wrong corner.
I hope to visit that place too. As a Filipino who dreams of setting foot in all his country’s provinces.
The Office of the President may be well-advised to wait for all the different reports to come out, but also investigate things quietly on its own to make its own report and spread the executive summary of that report with the most important conclusions to the public via Internet, in English and major local languages as soon as it is finished. The only defence against darkness is to spread light. Different reports have different aspects, that is clear – and serve different interests.
If people are claiming the President is afraid of the truth, then it is up to him to show he is NOT. Once matters are out in the open, only full clarification can truly help. I do not want Noynoy to apologize, but dream of the day he will give a presscon with five Powerpoint slides as summary.
From a Poe supporter:
https://scontent-fra.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/v/t1.0-9/10930852_845813835489135_8751061565691106100_n.jpg?oh=aaca00ae472ee19c079cb8cec79af123&oe=55B9CB98
Another statement from a well-known Poe supporter’s Facebook page:
Madam Grace,
Ikaw ang aking kandidato sa Eleksyon 2016. Ngunit hayaan mong sabihin sa inyo na ito ang unang pagkakamali mo. Tila mgga naimpluwensyahan ng mga bulok na politikong tradisyunal na may mga sariling agenda. Ang madalas banggitin sa akin ng mga umaayaw sa iyo ay bata ka pa raw at baka pagdating ng oras ay lapain ka nila. May panahon pang matuto ka. Totoo ang sinasabi rito: respnsable nga ang Pangulo bilang chief executive na pumayag na isagawa ang isang proyekto; ngunit responsable ba siya pag pumalpak ang mga nagsagawa nito? Higit sa lahat, “liable” ba siya? Sa kapalpakan ng rescue operation sa Tehren noong panahon ni Carter “liable” ba ito? Alam kong hindi ka abogada; ngunit magtanung-tanong ka. Sana makuha mong ipakita uli ang iyong matinong paghuhusga sa mga bagay. Maghihintay ako.
http://politics.com.ph/post/pulse-asia-7-of-10-filipinos-reject-or-ignore-aquino-resign-calls – and we don’t have to worry TOO much, Philippine political culture IS maturing rapidly:
The Pulse Asia survey showed that 28 percent of the respondents were neutral or indifferent to the Aquino quit calls.
In its report, Pulse Asia said: “Amidst the various challenges being faced by the incumbent administration, among which are the unresolved questions regarding the Mamasapano operation and the suspension of congressional discussions on the BBL, around four out of 10 Filipinos (42%) do not think President Aquino should step down from office now.”
About my Al Pacino clip just tweak the script to post Mamasapano.
Pretend Michael is PNOY, Connie and Neri is Purisima ,Vincent is Napenas
Scene from God father III
FADE TO: Michael’s house. Michael is talking to Vincent, Al Neri and Connie.
MICHAEL
Don’t ever, again, give that kind of order. Not while I’m alive. Understand?
VINCENT
You were too sick to make a decision. I got a go-ahead from Neri; I got a go-ahead from Connie.
MICHAEL
Connie?
VINCENT
It was the right decision, Uncle Michael.
MICHAEL
It was the wrong decision. I command this family, right or wrong! It was not, what I WANTED!
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I advice Grace Poe to watch God Father III
It seems to me that there is an unrecognized factor in this long series of comments. I believe that the people who are so vigorous in defending Pres. Aquino a) believe that VicePres Binay becoming president would be as disastrous as Ferdinand Marcos as martial law president and all that followed; b) are convinced that an alliance of corrupt politicians, supported by other influential individuals, are capable of engineering an impeachment that would make Binay president. In this combination of situations, the pro-Aquino or anti-Binay people (It’s possible to be one or the other without being both.) are passionate in protesting any charges that might increase the chances of that happening. Possibly they see these comments and charges as part of that conspiracy to impeach.
They may seem hysterical or even paranoid, and perhaps they are, but when the stakes are this high, tolerance and patience may not be appropriate attitudes. Like the old (somewhat modified) adage, “If you can keep your calm when all around you are losing theirs, you don’t understand the
situation.”
I can understand those who feel that this is a great threat to the future of the Philippines. While this may all fizzle out like a wet firecracker, the outcome is not yet clear. These are perilous times.
Stakes high. Trust low. These times are rather a roller coaster. I wish the Ombudsman would work assertively to rid us of the problem, and the courts would finally be responsible. The ruling on Binay’s attempt to block the Money Laundering Council from examining their accounts will be the second major test. The first turned out badly when the Court of Appeals gave Junjun Binay 60 day relief that provoked a lot of paperwork shoved by Binay into the court system to try to jam it. We are on edge. The Binays are near panic. Doing desperate deeds.
Great point you have! We all need to answer the important questions before we go off calling the President to step down.
Yes we do, and one of them is why the Senate committee did not do its job of developing legislation, and instead looked for someone to blame the deaths on. As if that would heal anything. As if that is justice. Justice is found in making sure it does not happen again, like that.
I would like to see the good senator hold accountable those people who egged the late FPJ to run for presidency.
So it is a family of puppets played by forces that hide behind the scenes? That is our transparent democracy Poe advocates in her FOI speeches?
Is the name Estrada behind both the father and the daughter? Ongpin? Osmena?
I think the apology or I’m sorry issue has already lost it’s relevance and importance that to maintain the call for it would just be a waste of time.
Offer of apology is a time-bound issue that if you cannot give it on time might as well not give it at all. If you cannot have it at the moment it is suppose to be given, let it pass and move on. The person to whom it should originate from has the burden to carry the aftermath of withholding it.
That’s reasonable. In the Aquino case, to me, he has no need to apologize, but he does have to deal with the fallout of that decision. I agree. He does not have to feel any burden of guilt, just the burden of a public who may not see things as he sees them.
Okay, Joe, I will indulge you not on the aspect of whether he should or shouldn’t do it, for my last post have already settled its irrelevance. Nor focus on the propriety and the goodwill that follows for doing it which more or less I’ve mentioned already in the past.
For those who do not favor PNoy making an apology – let me reiterate to avoid misinterpretation, no personal offense here just reasoning out – it has become the main reason or instrument to stubbornly refuse to accede with the prevailing public sentiment.
Not giving an apology has become the battle cry of those who mainly like the President. It is the only tool they have confronting those who offers the opposite view. Not reason nor sound practical judgment in relation to the event that created the plea for apology. For the ‘no apology’ crowd, it’s about power and how it should not be undermined or destabilize or threatened. It’s about those who ‘threatens’ the authority of the President and their political agenda and not really the emotional well-being side that prompted the call for the President to apologize. It’s really all about the President and not the country even though they try to present the two as one and the same.
But they are not. There is more to an apology that will redound to the benefit of the President than undermine his office. There is strength in offering apology than running away from it. Apology speaks volume of you as a person not necessarily expressing guilt but unmasking your self and showing your humanity and benevolence for all to see.
The anti-Aquino crowd will never change, apology or not. Practically, everything about them will remain the same. That’s why they are called anti. But there is a greater majority, repeat, greater majority out there that in a way being alienated because of the recalcitrance of the President to be with one in sentiments with the public. And you know what? That is what the anti-Aquino crowd want to happen. They are thrilled every second of every minute and hours of the day seeing the ‘no apology stand’ push those people on their side. They want to take advantage of the confusion and convert the cynics to comrades. They admonish and befriend the neutral ones to become the enemies of their enemy. The ‘no apology’ is an effective divide and rule tool that unfortunately works to the advantage of the anti-Aquino crowd. Get the drift?
They so want to continue the “no apology” stand for it gives them life and relevance. They so want it to prevail because those supporting the ‘no apology’ view think it is the road to victory and letting it go would spell defeat. So, the anti-PNoy are winning in the process. Oh, how they love to see the ‘no apology’ team being bombarded by simple critics and apolitical crowd who simply reads the prevailing situation wearing their hearts on their sleeves.
I’m an Aquino admirer. That is the reason why I’m here and not in another blog where the anti-PNoy dominates the board and delete you if you sing a different tune. And I favor PNoy making an apology because I can see that he will benefit from it in the long run at the same time deny those who have sinister agenda to take advantage of the opportunity.
Look, the Marcoses are here again, stretching its muscles and testing the waters. the Estradas continues to hog the limelight and so are the Revillas with their dramas and failings. Not to forget the Binays and other notorious and despicable characters who continue to adorn our social and political life. They never said sorry for all the notoriety they did, for all the blood on their hands, for all abuses they commit and simply for being who they are. But look how the Filipinos are treating them now? I mean, we may never forget but we are just forgiving people. It’s in our DNA. It’s who we are and we are the better for it. Unfortunately, that’s our spiritual side that seems to got lost in a spiritual person like PNoy.
😦
Thanks for the elaboration. I suspect that you do speak for most people. I will support Mr. Aquino whether he apologizes or not, because I think supporting him is more important than the apology. I moved past the issue the first time the issue was raised, mainly because I think he operates earnestly, he does not have hidden agendas, and he deserves our consideration. The family members? He has spent time with them and if they can’t see he is sorry for their loss, then I’m afraid I find fault with them, not him.
I will support Mr. Aquino whether he apologizes or not….
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Same here.
The President is not liable for numerous reasons.
1. He has prerogative powers. It involves a decision taken by him based on his interpretation of his constitutional powers, by his own initiative.
It gives him the power to choose the person to consult when he makes plans. Calling the shots in combat mission is one of his tasks. The moment he and his field commanders decide to start to carry out a mission, they have to do it without hesitation or no looking back, it’s always final because there is no such thing as “wait a minute” in the battlefield, regardless of whether their judgment is perfect or imperfect.
Even if his “prerogative powers” is subject to constraints by other branches of government, he could overcome it because the outcome of the mission is beyond his control and cannot be changed. That said, the doctrine of partial separation of power must be applicable in this case.
2. What happened Mamasapano is not a massacre it’s an encounter.
3. Every soldier is bound by an oath to perform his duties.
4. No one should assume that the Commander-In-Chief has a leverage to command in the battleground in the same way as the Field Commanders.
5.No nation in this world has made military officials answerable for a mission that resulted in the loss of lives of some of the troop members.
Clearest statement I’ve read on it. Thanks, High Five.
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Seconded.
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I am not pro Aquino. But he was good for the country compared to the last 2 presidents. There are things that cannot be openly discussed when it comes to military operations. Are Filipinos in delusion that Mamasapano was entirely a Philippine operation? The man got to do what he has to do in certain times. What failed him and the citizenry is ineptness of field tactics and combat of the military. Regarding Poe…trust that all favours she received she will return..count in the Estradas and Revillas. She cannot even run without Escudero. Philipines politics mirrors US’s where personalities can win major positions. Look elsewhere where there’s low graft and corruption..these countries choose their leaders through merit and check and balance. Australia has had 4 prime ministers in 6 years yet not a single minute it was destabilised, each and every department and services are functioning the next day as usual. Because the government is not about a person in power but about policy in place.
To your points:
Mamasapano. Hearings revealed that American intelligence was used, and Americans were in the operations center but not engaged in fighting. Investigation by DOJ says these activities were within bounds of current treaties and broke no laws. General Napenas had sought American assistance to drop a smart bomb through the roof of Marwan’s hut, but was denied that resource. It was a poorly conducted raid, by Filipinos who could not get staged correctly on time, and who were poorly equipped (lacking the right radios).
Poe. Agree.
US personalities winning. That seems to be more and more the case, but I think one would not say that about Hillary Clinton. She’s smart and capable. Obama was elected on the basis of charisma, and it was the confidence behind that charisma that brought confidence to the economic recovery. Much the same as the Aquino reputation brought stability and confidence to the Philippines.
“. . . government is not about a person in power but about policy in place.” That should be the case. Often in the Philippines it is not, especially in the LGUs where power rules.
Thanks for the comment. Thought provoking for sure.