Do Filipinos understand the ‘good’ in good faith?

Analysis and Opinion

By Joe America

My enduring vision of the Philippines is a nation whose people cannot tell good from bad. Indeed, it is worse than that. People reverse the meanings. Good is criticized for not being perfect, and bad is accepted because bad people are expected to be bad. The result is that good is shunned and bad is welcomed. “Ta daaaah!” We get our poverty-wracked, corrupt, dilapidated, brutal, incompetent Philippines.

I did a posting on Twitter and Facebook (FB) venting my frustration with this, as I can see the problem coming in terms of polls for 2022 that have corrupt or ‘bad’ candidates leading honest and ‘good’ ones. It’s 2016 and 2019 elections all over again.

On FB, I clarified that I was not talking about DDS, but about critics . . . and I named Ellen Tordesillas, Maria Ressa, and Katrina Stuart Santiago. People largely defended them as doing journalism, saying it’s within their job description to call out perceived mistakes.

Katrina Stuart Santiago visited my FB page to comment on the posting. This brief excerpt encapsulates the debate well:

  • Joe America: You know the people who irritate me? People who criticized Aquino for six years, or couldn’t stand Roxas, but have the audacity to blame someone else for Duterte.
  • Katrina Stuart Santiago: How absurd that you are blaming opinion writers for having done criticism of Pnoy and Mar, instead of talking about what PNoy, Mar, and the Liberal Party actually did wrong for us all to deserve Duterte at this point. To imagine that critical commentary is what dictated the shift towards Duterte, as opposed to the acts themselves that were being criticized—this is exactly what Duterte has been doing to critics the past five years, too.
  • Joe America: Well, as I argued then, “wrong” has it’s context, as seen through the eyes of those doing the “wrong”, and if critics refuse to accept that context and criticize good faith and good intent, we end up with the situation of a bunch of narrow-minded nit-pickers denying that good faith is real and important. It becomes a nation intent upon tearing down even it’s own best efforts.

Well, in writing that response, I had an “Ahaaaa!” moment when it all came clear to me. So let me untangle the arguments in the above commentary.

I suspect we can agree that the following events or acts are among the “wrongs” done by Aquino/Roxas:

  • Yolanda
  • Mamasapano
  • Dengvaxia

Critics hammered on these subjects so hard that the events took on the look of ‘bad faith’. That overarching view influenced elections in 2016. It got us Duterte.

Well, journalists and opinion writers should be able to paint truths, right?

But what is the truth? The truth is that all three incidents were pursued in good faith by Aquino/Roxas. All have a context that justifies every decision made . . . if one starts with the presumption of good faith.

  • President Aquino explained why he did not greet the 44 Mamasapano coffins. Few bothered to listen through the filter of good faith.

Evidently no one in the journalism world starts with that presumption, that decent people mean well.

So that leads me to the question in the title for this article:

Do Filipinos understand the ‘good’ in good faith?

How does one ever create a modern state where mistakes, done in good faith, are recognized as good? As opportunities to learn? As opportunities for gracious compassion rather than opportunities to criticize as if the acts were done in bad faith?

Well, to get there, you actually have to be able to see good faith as underlying all that is done by government and only despair or condemn if the goals and methods were done in bad faith.

  • Was Yolanda storm relief done in bad faith? Of course not. It was a natural disaster.
  • Was Mamasapano carried out in bad faith? Of course not? It was an anti-terror operation.
  • Was Dengvaxia offered in bad faith? Of course not. It stopped a health catastrophe.
  • Is the drug war with 7,884 uninvestigated drug killings being done in bad faith? Yes. Refer to the Constitution.
  • Is acceptance of China in sovereign Philippine Seas being done in bad faith? Yes. Refer to the Constitution.

Yet to journalists, whose job is to call out the deficiencies they see, they are the same.

What’s missing?

Missing is the presumption anywhere at any time that good faith is what motivates good people.

When journalists ignore that fundamental democratic framing, their criticisms miss the mark.They become enablers of the value system where good is never good enough, and bad is what we expect.

Somehow they need to get onto the driving side of good intent and good faith, rather than the undermining side.

How do they do that? By being able to discern earnest people (Aquino) from deceivers (Duterte) and giving earnest people some wiggle room. The room to make decisions the reporters/analysts personally disagree with. The room to explain themselves, and be respected. The room to make mistakes, and not be afraid to say so.

Otherwise these critics are enablers of bad faith. For failing to recognize . . . and appreciate . . . good faith.

They need to be able to see the good in good faith as essential to modern development, where mistakes will most certainly be made. And learned from.

I would add that the ‘take no prisoners’ response of Katrina Stuart Santiago above is EXACTLY how President Aquino was painted for six years. She denies she was a part of the media environment from which Duterte emerged. It is “absurd” to put any accountability on her or other opinion writers. There is no room for conversation on this point.

Aquino and Roxas remain the culprits, in her eyes.

That’s the national journalistic condition, is it not? Indeed, it is the national condition.

In the Philippines, a lot of influential people seem to believe that no one aspires to do good. People like Aquino and Roxas scheme. They screw up, that’s all they do. Wrongs are everywhere. In every step “I” disagree with. Or don’t understand. In every mistake or deed gone wrong. There is no good to be discovered at all.

At all.

There is no intent, no desire, no capacity among critics or citizens to search for good faith, or respect it. No intent, no desire, no capacity to promote the value of good faith as a part of the national conscience.

__________

Photograph of Yolanda relief line by June Isidro, Pininterest

Comments
338 Responses to “Do Filipinos understand the ‘good’ in good faith?”
  1. Jenni Bulan says:

    I read “frustration” in your newest article, Joe. I understand where you’re coming from as I am a Filipino living under this abusive regime for 5 yrs now and counting. We cannot “fault” the journos for failing to see or comprehend “good faith.” We should not even be reading the opinion writers anymore (if there even are credible ones still out there). In this day and age, everyone has become an opinion writer. I point to social media as the force behind Duterte’s win, esp Facebook users. Manipulators will always look for an opportunity to abuse whatever “good” is trending; just look at the community pantries, the BLM movement in the US, even Facebook when it was just starting out. Facebook singlehandedly destroyed journalism. People don’t know who to believe anymore. The 2022 elections will be won by sheer trolling, mind conditioning. It doesn’t help any that “journalists” don’t do their homework anymore, they’re all just toeing the line, lazily smooching off netizens and international news agencies. It was they themselves who self-destructed, with generous help from the clown in the Palace, of course.

    There still are many good Filipinos. They’ve always been under the radar. They’re not publicity hungry at all. But there is that psyche even I don’t quite get up to now. It seems there is that penchant to have a say in everything that goes wrong yet not acknowledge or commend good deeds. Remember though that only the 40-somethings and up remain on Facebook. The rest are elsewhere now (eg. Discord). The young voting population find any talk on politics just pure toxicity. All my 20-something kids think so! They don’t even read anything about the news unless it “trends” on their feeds somewhere.

    This is a long climb out of the hellhole we’re in. Those “journos and opinion writers” better shape up, put their ear close to the ground, remember what journalism really is and reflect while they still can. Why do politicians and influence peddlers even own media outfits?! I am not deflecting the blame off this regime, mind you. They egged this culture of impunity on. They’re really to blame for this. But the media… shame on them!

    • Superb assessment, Jenni. I think in my next article, I’ll reflect on youth’s role as facilitator of good or ‘toxicity’. A natural next step in writing about accountability of various social sectors.

      • Karl Garcia says:

        The previous article of Irineo is already showing signs of hopelessness and frustration.
        On opinion writers, there are a select few I still read,Some are socmed friends.
        Ellen Tordesillas, met her once.Katrina, our interaction was during my EDSA piece, when she reminded me on twitter that I did not write about civil disobedience and I also got to explain or apologize to her mom.

        Before Yolanda,Mamasapano, there was the Luneta hostage crisis, where it was even rumored that PNoy was playing video games, during the incident.

    • madlanglupa says:

      > The young voting population find any talk on politics just pure toxicity. All my 20-something kids think so! They don’t even read anything about the news unless it “trends” on their feeds somewhere.

      Ever since this regime founded by the late unlamented Dante Jimenez who put that old geezer into power to establish a police state, the trolls in mainstream social media (and paid for, more likely using our taxes to feed them) keep on making discussions of politics and current affairs very difficult and hostile to participate by terrorizing the youth.

      So it’s either they’re becoming (1) disinterested and wrapped up so much in their personal pursuits or (2) wanting to escape to, say, New Zealand or Canada because they feel they have little to no hope of being able to finally rectify this culture of kinship politics and overlordism in government.

      Currently, according to a colleague, /r/philippines in Reddit is one of the few safer places for discussing dissent, despite obvious societal rifts, but even then defeatism is also becoming one of the emerging attitudes over there.

  2. NHerrera says:

    There is a wave of lunacy worldwide. Unfortunately, the Philippines is in a much higher category.

    Here is something from the US of A: the twice-impeached, one-termer President is encouraging his fellow lunatics (who bought the idea) to think he will be reinstated by August. If 70% of GOP voters (some 70 million) think Biden stole the election, that is at least about 50 million looneys — with quite a few educated at some of the best US Schools, including one Senator Trump labeled as crazy and whose wife Trump also labeled as ugly, now one of the Mini-Trumps.

    Lunacy thy name is Democracy. Makes Putin and Xi look good.

    • Yes, but is there a good totalitarian in the world?

    • chemrock says:

      Lunacy is cancelling the Keystone pipeline, then lift sanctions on the Russian pipeline, cancel Alaska oil gas leases, then import oil from Iran,

      Don’t know about you, but my electricity bill has gone up 20% since January.

      • Karl Garcia says:

        Chem, you moved to the States?

        • chemrock says:

          No. Biden’s policy and actions has made US no longer a net oil exporter. OPEC rules again and oil prices has risen. Singapore electricity prices rise in tandem.

          • Karl Garcia says:

            Thanks for clarifying.

          • To put the principles of the blog to work, we would first have to presume good faith in President Biden’s policies, and then overlay that with facts and understandings. The road to oil independence began under President Obama with fracking, and was continued avidly under Trump with his approval of drilling in the Alaskan wilderness and approval of the Keystone pipeline to bring oil in from Canada (acceptable importing). Biden has shifted to global warming and preservation of the environment, and introduced policies to support that initiative. He cancelled both of those Trump initiatives and expects to import oil from Russia and Saudia Arabia to balance the books with consumption. The overriding goal is clean energy. If it were import/export neutral, they’d just fire up all the closed coal electrical plants. So there is a policy basis for his work.

            The price of oil was $30 a barrel when Trump took office, and peaked at $70 in 2019, then dropped to $60 with the advent of COVID, and it has been creeping steadily upward. There is no “20%” increase, nor is OPEC driving anything that the US does not want it to drive. There is a price to pay for re-joining the push to respond to climate change, and the debate should probably shift to that rather than Biden’s acts on oil, which are a good faith effort to balance a lot of pressing demands.

            • chemrock says:

              Covid dampened economic activities so demand for oil dropped drastically. But prices climbed in reaction to WH policies.

              Good way to wring the issue to relate to ‘good faith’ topic. Bravo.
              Whether the consequences are for the better is debatable, and a different issue.

      • Karl Garcia says:

        I listened when you used to message me about Trump, but now I no longer inderstand why you still defend him.

        • chemrock says:

          Don’t want to side-track Joe’s good article topic here.

          Just a quickie. I’m not defending Trump the person. I’m for conservative values and fairness, individual freedom and truth. Most importantly, the US is now exporting their wokism and the lunatic leftist idea of racial equity and gender neutrality. I’m fighting this battle because this toxicity is creeping even into Singapore where silly people are aping the dictionary of the marxist cultural revolution unravelling in the states.

          • Karl Garcia says:

            I see. Thanks.

          • I’d welcome reconciliation of the value of fairness with the lunatic idea of racial equality. Isn’t racial equality driven by a sense of fairness?

            • chemrock says:

              Joe, I think you are confusing racial equality and racial equity. Equality is about a level playing field for all.

              Simple example — the poverty of Filipinos living in the squatters prevent them from attaining academic heights. To level the playing field, the government dishes out grants and financial aids, or special programmes such subsidies on tuition fees etc. This is enablement.

              Equity is deterministic outcome. Example — the proportion of rich and poor is 1: 100. Therefore the university must make sure 100 poor student passes for every 1 rich student.

              • I’m afraid I’m not grasping the lunacy of leftist work on racial equality. I’m of the era when Affirmative Action was big in the US, opening the door to colleges and jobs for people of color. The US was a slave nation, a bigoted state, and the “lunatic” leftists decided rectification was in order. I grant both left and right the benefit of presumed good faith. My conservative bank dealt with it, recruited men . . . and women . . .of color and pushed them up the corporate ladder. The conservative board was proud of its achievements. I think a whole lot of Filipinos, Chinese, Blacks, and Mexicans . . . and women . . .have been given grand opportunities because of these measures.

                The presumption of good faith I think can cool a lot of the heated rhetoric these days. Or I hope it will.

            • chemrock says:

              What is being pursued in the US policies is racial equity, not racial equality.

              • I’m lost on the distinction or the lunacy.

              • chemrock says:

                I’m saying racial equity policy is one of the lunacy.

                Eg the next Seal team will have 7 whites, 3 blacks, 1 latino, 1 asian. Does’nt matter their expertise and suitability for the mission. That’s what equity means.

                We can agree to disagree.

              • The Affirmative Action program used the technique of equity to achieve better equality. The goals were not so rigid as your example, and were always couched in terms of “qualified”. With a college degree and job, minorities soon made strides in equality. I see no lunacy anywhere. I see earnest people working on a deep-rooted problem, using every tool in the book.

              • chemrock says:

                Empathy and emotion draws us to affirmative action. On the surface, it seems a just and workable means to bring more equality. But empirically, affirmative action has always been long term negative. Best example from home for me is Malaysia’s affirmative economic Bumiputra (sons-of-the-soil) policy. This is the singular policy of fault for Malaysia’s economic distress today. What is has done is that it has re-distributed wealth from the rich non-Malays to a crony class of Malays, but the entire Malay underclass is nowhere better and in fact worse off than before as resources has been misused.
                This is the underpining of almost all socialist policies but they are lessons the left never learns.

          • caliphman says:

            Good to know you are still gracing the blog with your presence, chemny. Even better to learn you are not a Trump defender as that can be a rather mind (if not truth) bending proposition. I too remain a conservative at heart, unsure of MM economic theory,free enterprise, government intervention where it is required to serve the pressing public good. That used to be what the GOP party stood for(the same one that a white man named Lincoln led in believing political equity and equality for AfroAmericans). This is now established as the party of Trump and stands for whatever serves his interest and no public policy agenda except what GOP leaders will induce QAnon and his other diehard followers to keep them in power.

        • LCPL_X says:

          The main reason why Justice Clarence Thomas became Republican

          was precisely all this racial equity/equality stuff thru school busing , in which his kids were bused (UNNECESSARILY) to a white school, wherein they incurred more racism instead of staying in their black school, which was actually same-same with the white school (read poor white neighborhood).

          Thus balance neg , balance pos, it was neg.

          His issue was one of choice, sure gov’t agencies should affect these social experiments, but private sector should be given choice, which is the case here.

          Justice Thomas wanted a choice in the matter, as an individual citizen. There in lies the issue. He as private citizen had none, if his kids were in public school.

          • LCPL_X says:

            School busing issue has been fixed though thru the magnet program and charter schools, where the schools themselves invite (pull) students, no more mandatory social experiments (push), there’s choice. Ice Cube from N.W.A. was a product of the magnet program, famous for “Fuck da Police”.

            But now its the teaching of Critical Race theory in public schools, mandatory no choice.

            if it was taught where all students and teachers can share their views , sure anything that teaches them how to argue and change minds (including their own) , I’m all for that, but I gotta feeling it’ll be like Bible study in which there’s only one narrative (Jesus is God, God is Jesus, who knows who the Holy Spirit is, don’t question that).

            If there’s hearty debate encourage this could all be good, but if in fact its just ideology masking as theory, then everyone should resist it. Choice. that’s the basis of freedom.

            • LCPL_X says:

              How to make money should be the only subject in schools, whether thru STEM or the arts, whatever. Just git yours.

  3. Augurio Vargas Jr says:

    Very well said Joe, that is what happening in our country, but the sad part is still remains, that the masses dont understand it, that other people exploit it.
    Still, critical thinking Filipinos, still outnumbered by the masses who don’t understand or simply don’t care. And that is the plain truth!

  4. LCPL_X says:

    The best way to balance out bad unfair criticism is to criticize the critics , so this blog is fair, Joe.

    I hope you get all three women to criticize each other, that would be entertaining. And informative.

    but if you subtract those women, you’ll have sycophants instead. I have to point out that that might be a worst situation, not as entertaining but worst.

    • It’s not a criticism of journalists, exactly, but of a culture that does not recognize good faith. Journalists are the gatekeepers, so allow the dark twists to thrive.

      • LCPL_X says:

        Good faith is kinda hard to define. Like the word Terrorist and Freedom fighter. One’s good faith is another’s bad faith.

        Like karl’s example above of PNoy playing videogames, well which video game was it, if it was SimCity or ARMA3. which means PNOY was doing something actually important, wargaming or simulation. But if he was playing Mario Kart, then he deserves to be skewered. But then again, Mario Kart is good hand eye coordination.

        My point, maybe good in good faith doesn’t have to be defined, maybe Filipino journalists like that stingray above just needs to dig and dig underground to uncover facts, thus informing the rest of Filipinos. For the good of the nation. Details, more facts.

        Like that BBM/Imee Marcos photo with Inday Sara two days ago, did the Marcoses fly by private jet, whose? Was it a surprise dinner? or scheduled? Sure what was discussed may probably be uncoverable, but a good stingray will have sources in airports and other means. With more facts, journalists there won’t

        have to resort to morality plays, empty criticisms. But then again you can get killed in the Philippines for uncovering all this, so can’t really blame them for not sticking their necks out. Just cover weddings and parties, and who vacationed where, and who’s hooking up with who.

        Who’s PNoy dating these days? LOL!

  5. Teodor Locsin SENIOR once wrote the FF. and I think it explains the attitude of not understanding good faith, which includes the all too common appellation of “hypocrite” towards PNoy, Mar etc.. yes even the glee when De Lima’s affair with her driver was found out. A common street adage in the Philippines is “pare-pareho naman tayong di mga santo” – “none of us here is saint ey?” and is the culture of diskarte too its extreme.

    https://philippinesfreepress.wordpress.com/1986/08/23/is-he-august-23-1986/

    “..cynicism is only fear—fear of knowing what one is. To debase the good is to rise in self-estimation. If all men are vile, then you are not worse than you might think you are. You just know the human score. To face and recognize goodness is to sit in judgment on oneself. Avoid it..”

  6. Lita Guiao says:

    Hey Joe. Another superb piece. I continue to read and discern. Widen my perspective with all the regular commentaries, and occasional ones, as well. I must add, our current reporting and journaling has been deteriorating over the years. Am not inclined anymore to read them as I used to. I have gotten pretty selective. You can tell who I select.

  7. NHerrera says:

    Defending the unworthy good with the ever-ready and convenient, “basta …”

    Ask a loyalist why he prefers Marcos to another one, he answers: Marcos distributes money to us. When you return with, “And where did the money come from?” he retorts, “basta …”

    On distributing money, our boxing pride, Pacquiao at least did not get it from Dad’s and Mom’s kleptocracy. When you, however, ask, will he be a better President, again you are answered with, “basta …”

    • Ha! Yes, “think shallow, think loyal, or shaddup!”

      • Italian BA-sta (intonation on the first syllable as opposed to Filipino bas-TA) is also used in Germany. The populist Chancellor Schröder (1998-2005) was known for his politics of basta, and his followers (I was one at the start then was disappointed when I got better informed) loved his not giving long explanations. Basta can also be translated as “enough already” and the New York expression “alright already” may well be a Little Italy legacy.

        Probably basta also exists in Spanish, was it imported by Pigafetta for all we know?

        There is this Italian hit from the mid-1980s where my brother always joked that part of it sounded like basta sadya.. actually it is bastasse già.. the sense of the song is “if one good song was enough to change the world, it would be enough already”..

        LYRICS WITH TRANSLATION:

        Se bastasse una bella canzone a far piovere amore

        If a good song were enough to make love rain

        Si potrebbe cantarla un milione, un milione di volte

        You could sing it a million, a million times

        Bastasse già, bastasse già

        Enough was enough, enough already

        Non ci vorrebbe poi tanto a imparare ad amare di più

        It wouldn’t take so long to learn to love more

        Se bastasse una vera canzone per convincere gli altri

        If a real song were enough to convince others

        Si potrebbe cantarla più forte, visto che sono in tanti

        You could sing it louder, since there are so many

        Fosse così, fosse così

        If so, if so

        Non si dovrebbe lottare per farsi sentire di più

        You shouldn’t struggle to make yourself heard more

        Se bastasse una buona canzone a far dare una mano

        If a good song were enough to help

        Si potrebbe trovarla nel cuore, senza andare lontano

        You could find it in your heart, without going far

        Bastasse già, bastasse già

        Enough was enough, enough already

        Non ci sarebbe bisogno di chiedere la carità

        No need to ask for charity

        Dedicato a tutti quelli che sono allo sbando

        Dedicated to all those who are in disarray

        Dedicato a tutti quelli che non hanno avuto ancora niente

        Dedicated to all those who have not yet had anything

        E sono ai margini da sempre

        And they’ve always been on the sidelines

        Dedicato a tutti quelli che stanno aspettando

        Dedicated to all those who are waiting

        Dedicato a tutti quelli che rimangono dei sognatori

        Dedicated to all those who remain dreamers

        Per questo sempre più da soli

        That’s why more and more alone

        Se bastasse una grande canzone per parlare di pace

        If a great song were enough to talk about peace

        Si potrebbe chiamarla per nome aggiungendo una voce

        You could call it by name by adding an entry

        E un’altra poi e un’altra poi

        And another then and another then

        Finché diventa di un solo colore più vivo che mai

        As long as it becomes one color more alive than ever

        Dedicato a tutti quelli che sono allo sbando

        Dedicated to all those who are in disarray

        Dedicato a tutti quelli che hanno provato ad inventare

        Dedicated to all those who have tried to invent

        Una canzone per cambiare

        A song to change

        Dedicato a tutti quelli che stanno aspettando

        Dedicated to all those who are waiting

        Dedicato a tutti quelli che venuti su con troppo vento

        Dedicated to all those who came up with too much wind

        Quel tempo gli è rimasto dentro

        That time was left in him

        In ogni senso hanno creduto, cercato e voluto

        In every sense they believed, sought and wanted

        Che fosse così, che fosse così

        That it was so, that it was so

        Hanno creduto, cercato e voluto che fosse così

        They believed, sought and wished it to be so

  8. NHerrera says:

    Read this Wapo Opinion Article — Opinion: The Republican plot to steal the 2024 election

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2021/06/01/republican-plot-steal-2024-election/

    It sounds credible to me. The sinister scenario in the US plotted by the GOP seems worse than a scenario in the Philippines.

    In the Philippines, the Electoral System may be in place but the bad guys are just relying on the age-old gullibility of the mostly poor voters enticed by the promises and giveaways during the election period. In the US, if the scenario described is to be believed and recent events persuade (me, at least), the scenario is worse for the touted great democracy of the world.

    FAIR ELECTION = DEMOCRACY

    SUBVERTED ELECTION = FALSE DEMOCRACY

    • chemrock says:

      NH
      There is a freight train of audits coming and it will be the sciences of statistics, disruptive audit technologies and deep forensic scientists who will lay bare the truth on the table. Leftist state executives are scrambling for cover. Silly administrators in Arizona delete data, log and directory files on machines, (a felony that can send one to 20 years in prison) not knowing forensic experts can recover them, which they have done. Lying executives refuse to hand over routers by arguing it will jeopardise police databases when all IT people know routers contain only routing info and no transactional data.

      Those who want to know the truth say let the sciences lay them on the table. Arizona is showing show the way. Pennsylvannia has just sent a delegation to learn the first-in-class way to conduct an independent forensic audit. Georgia follows soon. as will New Hampshire.

      • Micha says:

        LOL, chempo went all the way from Singapore to Arizona to stop the steal.

        Time to move on chemp, your kiddo’s been disrobed; the Mar-A-Lago Pinocchio has no clothes.

        • chemrock says:

          For interest sake, let’s KIV this, till the freight train has rolled past.
          Arizona has a certain time line. Audit ends by June. Another say 60 days for audit reports. Then Legislative review. So everything will be out in the open before end October. Let’s wait.

          But something interesting here. I’m sure to have Lance’s attention.

          Whilst the Arizona audit was going on, a mysterious plane circled the airspace over the Veterans Coliseum in Maricopa County. It has been suggested the Fed was spying on the audit. The criss-crossing path was similar to what happened in the Boston bombings. The surveillance plane can pick up all telephony calls. So the Fed is collecting all the names of conservatives, who called who, for a database for tracking and possibly to go after them. This has precedence. Same as the way they hauled up triple-amputee army veteran Brian Kolfage, the organiser of Build-the wall org. 15 FBI agents arrested him and made him crawl in the rain to get into the FBI vehicle by himself. All the Fed wanted was his laptop to get the names of conservatives in the buiId-the-wall org to go after, the prize catch was Steven Banon.

          But the interesting part is this. In the past few weeks in Singapore, an Israeli plane was circling over our airspace. After much complaints, a Temasek-owned company explained the plane was doing a product demo.No other details provided. Malaysia was suspicious that it’s some radar or surveillance product, in which case of course Singapore has the sovereign right to do whatever is in our interest. Our northern neighbour also thought we may be assisting the Israelis to conduct spying on Hamas operatives in Malaysia, in which case we have been devilish neighbour. In the recent Palestinian-Israel bombings, Netanyahu had said Israel will now go after Hamas operatives in foreign countries – he mentioned several, including Malaysia. That may be what triggered the Malaysians’ concerned. But this is hubris. To spy on Hamas operatives there, the Israeli plane need to circle over Malaysia, not Singapore.

          So what were the Israelis doing in Singapore? I fear Singapore may be interested in acquiring the same surveillance technology as what the Fed has.

          This is the flight path of the planes at Maricopa (left) and the Israeli plane over Singapore (right)

          https://scontent.fsin5-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/186556717_10219948926532916_7424876394159958967_n.jpg?_nc_cat=104&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=Ig9YCTIlhjkAX92005k&_nc_ht=scontent.fsin5-1.fna&oh=19c8cf83a5894cd5abd064c96e0ecdff&oe=60DC8B33

          • The book “Rise and Kill First” details Israel’s assassination program from the days of Israel’s formation. Its security people are increasingly willing to undertake assassinations of Hamas leaders, or Iranian nuclear scientists, wherever her own agents can get to them. Israel does try to avoid foreign operations . . . they get self-punishing blowback from them . . . but does gather information relentlessly around the globe. I heartily recommend this book for anyone who wants to grasp the Israeli context.

          • Micha says:

            Paranoid much?

            The Fed already knows the names and phone numbers, and twitter accounts of everyone in America. They probably also know the girlfriends of those cowboys in the Arizona recount including the names of their dogs and squirrels and cats. Why send a freaking surveillance plane? Wouldn’t a drone be a more discreet toy?

          • LCPL_X says:

            chemp, I would imagine that if a fixed wing was carrying out surveillance it would be in a pattern not criss crossing. If its not surveillance like a police pursuit or crowd control then it makes sense but this is the reason they’d use rotor helicopters.

            So maybe it was just police for crowd control. But my point if you have fancy tech equipment you don’t need to criss cross, you’ll just simply fly in a pattern, either circle or horse race track or triangle.

            • LCPL_X says:

              If you notice the pattern of that Israeli Singaporean plane fits more my pattern, horse track, some triangles there, even squares, so fits that it was a product demo.

              Whereas Maricopa fits more a crowd control situation.

          • LCPL_X says:

            But I agree with Micha above, if you follow Snowden all things are already known, so no need to send a plane up there to obtain info, when there’s easier means. Counter productive and redundant really.

            Also, that box of criss cross above is actually to the west of the stadium, if you Google map it, and if you’ve ever visited Phoenix that’s one of the shitty parts of town, so Phoenix PD’s press release that their plane was actually supporting police activities and not surveillance makes sense. I was surprised they had fixed wings, only fixed wings in California are Calfire and CHP, state gov’t.

            But if one was so inclined to push this theory further, I guess i’d match the time of the flight paths indicated to police calls for air support and or police incidents on the ground. But its not above the stadium , chemp. it’s to the west.

            • chemrock says:

              Noted.
              Remains a big puzzle, both Singapore and Maricopa.

              • LCPL_X says:

                Not really a big puzzle, chemp, between surveillance and police activity, its look like police activity, chemp. Occam’s razor and all that, chemp.

              • LCPL_X says:

                Your flight path in question is on top of Little Mexico.

              • chemrock says:

                Lance, it was a plane, not helicopter.

              • LCPL_X says:

                Phoenix PD already said it was theirs, chemp. The PC12NG , https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pilatus_PC-12

                https://www.phoenix.gov/police/help/air-support

                Maggie Cox, a public information sergeant with the department, confirmed to The Associated Press that the plane’s activities were unrelated to the recount.

                “We have nothing, zero, zilch to do with that,” Cox said in a phone call to the AP. She said while the maps accurately represent the police department’s flights, “the aircraft was on police calls that had nothing to do with the events at the Veteran Memorial Coliseum.”

                Cox told the AP that on one of the flights, the plane was helping police on the ground work a stolen vehicle case. The department’s planes are “called on for many things,” Cox said, but the election audit has not been one of them.

      • NHerrera says:

        Interesting, Chempo. You seem to have a good pipeline to the GOP auditors. I certainly don’t.

        The Big Lie may end up as the Big Truth? In Pilipino: “Abangan.”

        Also, the end of October for the result of the audits is kinda late — considering the Disrobed Kiddo [Micha’s new appellation from the earlier Orange Man] says he will be reinstated or robed again by August.

        • chemrock says:

          “… (Trump) he will be reinstated or robed again by August”

          Ah yes that famous Miss Maggie Haberman. She is exactly the type of journalist Joe is talking about here.

          NH, nowadays one has to be very careful what one is talking about.

          There is no such New York Times report. It was NYT reporter Maggie Haberman tweeting. And she was very careful in her tweet that she heard from other people, that she was only sharing the information she heard, that Trump told people close to him that he expects to be re-instated by August. She said he said they said …… In short, she claimed…

          Sounds very much like the impeachment #1 hearing he said she said he said they said Trump said….. until the first person said no, he did’nt tell me that.

          Remember Georgia Sec of State Raffensberger’s assistant said Trump called to ask him to get the votes for him? They deleted the conversation tape but someone retained a copy which showed no such instructions from Trump in that telcon?

          Etc Etc Etc Tons of such lies.

          About this famous Maggie Haberman:

          1. Before NYT took her in to cover Hillary Clinton in 2015, she worked at Politico, a fact checking site owned by partisan leftists sole to discredit conservative talking points.

          Wikileaks gave us this : Joel Benenson, Hillary’s chief campaign strategist, e-mailed the Clinton campaign in January 2015.

          “Who: For something like this, especially in the absence of us teasing things out to others, we feel that it’s important to go with what is safe and what has worked in the past, and to a publication that will reach industry people for recruitment purposes. We have has a very good relationship with Maggie Haberman of Politico over the last year. We have had her tee up stories for us before and have never been disappointed. While we should have a larger conversation in the near future about a broader strategy for reengaging the beat press that covers HRC, for this we think we can achieve our objective and do the most shaping by going to Maggie.”

          IN OTHER WORDS, SHE IS A HACK, NOT A JOURNALIST
          TO CONFIRM THAT SHE IS A HACK —-

          Wikileaks: Jennifer Palmieri, Director of Communications with the Hillary campaign sent out this e-mail, a few months later in July of 2015

          “Maggie thinks it is responsible and that we are not going to have a problem with it – it will have all the caveats that HRC has not actually proposed these policies, and has said that we will pay for any new policies. She is going to read me the story later today off the record to further assure me. I will let you all know how that goes. Jen”

          In Jan 2018, to sow discord in the Trump impeachment camp, Maggie Haberman, without access to Trump’s team, simply published an out right lie that Trump is sacking his legal team. Lawyers John Dowd, Ty Cobb and Jay Sekulow. worked loyally for Trump all the way.

          Remember the incident Jan 2019 Lincoln Memorial were a group of MAGA kids from Kentucky came from a March For Life rally. The native American Vietnam vet Nathan Phillips had a face off wit one of the boys. The native American was beating his drums and starred inches from the boy’s smiling face, that incident. The leftist press totally skewed their reporting which caused the kids to be doxxed, death threats, school expulsion threats. Maggie Haberman slandered the boys in the NYT. She so pissed off esteemed attorney Robert Barnes that he said he will represent the kids if any of them were to sue NYT. Eventually they sued CNN and won the hundred million $ suit.

          Jan 2019 Maggie Haberman tweeted Trump was whisked off to the golf course by his aides. The narrative is White House aides are in charge of Trump. They think it is dangerous Trump left alone with TV he will tweet his nonsense. The whole leftist media went crazy and propagated Maggie’s lie. (The irony is, Biden is being chaperoned in the WH).

          So yes, 3 cheers for Maggie Haberman the great journalist from NYT.

          By the way, from Wikileaks, we know that 65 reporters from the leftist press worked in close association with the Hillary campaign.

          So yes, be careful with he said she said they said.

      • LCPL_X says:

        Just to clarify I’m not pro-Trump per se I’m a nationalist not a globalist. Thus Biden’s nationalist policies I like I’m pro-Biden for now. If he takes us to another war, I’ll be anti-Biden. That’s my threshold.

        But this talk of Trump getting back into the White House in August, theres just no precedent of this. Even in sports this doesn’t happen, you win the Super Bowl you find out later this and that happened, people will want win to stay win here regardless of what was discovered.

        So even if some stuff was uncovered in Arizona, big wow, unless the count is really significant (not just one state but more, gotta be real big), then Biden stays in the WH.

        chemp, I am seeing more Hispanics from California move to Arizona, most of whom are directly affected by all this homeless problem. Whites too are leaving. So there was a firefighter vs. firefighter shooting in Acton, CA yesterday which I’m sure made national news. That place is white as white can be, and those people are moving but not so much because of the homeless problem (nothing direct) but more liberal left policies, but they’re not moving to Arizona but up north Idaho, Montana, etc.

        Arizona will cease to be Republican is my point here. That’s what will happen in 2024. Trump may still take 2024, i dunno, and he can use whatever evidence he’s discovered if there are, but for sure he’ll not be in the WH this August. Its just not how America works, the rich don’t wanna rock the boat.

        p.s.

        chemp, kinda weird that you picked Sartre given the whole Sartre-Camus falling out. And the basis of that falling out. https://existentialcomics.com/comic/58 (best expressed in that comic strip, weirdly it reminds me of you and Micha re MMT, but both of you have not talked CBDC yet and how that changes or not change your positions , once CBDC is adopted ).

        • chemrock says:

          Look at the comments. I wasn’t the one who said August he will be reinstated. I was just pointing out it came from the tweet of a lying Maggie Haberman.

          Even if audits determined there was fraud, it’s uncharted territory. Who knows what will happen. Trump is not eloquent, but he has the uncanny ability to express things in very ways that sticks easily. Example is creepy Joe. You get it when you see the videos him smelling little girls and other men’s wives. In this case here, he asked ‘how does one govern when one is not elected?’.

          • LCPL_X says:

            chemp, but that’s your underlying assumption here, no? that somehow Trump will be back in the WH, becuz he was elected unlike Biden.

            To which I’m responding, that usually doesn’t happen, look at sports other contests, people want to move on, so theres precedent; Americans don’t want to relitigate election stuff.

            It’ll go to the courts and the courts will favor not rocking the boat as well. Everyone does, unless youre QAnon type then they don’t get tired of this stuff, but they are minority.

            Like i said, better off examining how CBDC will work out. This stuff is not popular really even among my die hard Trump friends. They’re talking Ivanka 2024 already, not 2020, chemp. Moved on they have.

            • I see ‘your pal’ Flynn is calling for a military coup like in Myanmar. Boy, not the America I grew up in.

              • LCPL_X says:

                It’s gotcha journalism, Joe.

                I had to youtube the thing, I’ve been out of the loop researching all this crypto and CBDC stuff.

                Some sort of event and a former Marine (looks like your peeps, Joe, Vietnam vet probably) asks why a Myanmar coup can’t happen here.

                Flynn answers it can it should.

                Then CNN and MSNBC, etc. piles on saying Flynn wants a coup. Journalists these days.

                Gotcha journalism.

                I may talk a lot about Generals, but I’m actually no fan of officers. I’m an enlisted guy. But when it comes to the military in general, I tend to follow your good faith principle. And from there disagree.

                Now a coup can be both, a good thing or a bad thing, like the War of Independence, or the Civil War, but Myanmar-like coup would be more akin to the attempted coup on FDR (in which Marine General Smedley Butler paid a key role in squashing it); then JFK by assassination.

                But in this particular case I think the Vietnam era Marine asking the question and Flynn were simply two ships passing in the night, both missing each others points. And Flynn did offer clarification that what

                he meant was that Sure Myanmar coups can happen here, why not?

                And he’s correct, coups and insurrections have happened. There’s a lot of things you can ding Flynn on, like fanning QAnon fans, etc. but that’s covered by the 1st amendment.

                In this case, Gen. Flynn is saying Myanmar coup can happen here, and liberal media is wrong in blowing that statement up because the American military has lots of safeguards. This is the reason why officers are rotated 2-3 years per billet, 4-5 for enlisted.

                By this very mechanism, military coups cannot happen. But to Flynn’s point it could it should happen. Liberal media is better served by explaining that although it could it should, that really realistically probability wise it just cannot.

              • Well, it’s not exactly stuff to ignore when a former security official says a coup is needed. The negligence would be to NOT be aghast. So he did a ‘gotcha’ to himself, I rather think. But all these Trump people are well worth ignoring these days. Most have big issues to work through.

              • LCPL_X says:

                Well, like your blog says the media over there was complicit in the DU30 election; so too here in the Trump election, because they covered him day in and day out;

                if the media doesn’t stop constantly putting Trump in the news, they’ll have more to answer come 2024.

                But I agree with you Flynn does say some crazy stuff; like Mattis or McChrystal (who got booted for talking too much against Obama). They’re not politicians.

                Flynn did clarify what he meant, and if we’re to follow the good faith principle seems good clarification enough, Joe.

            • chemrock says:

              Once again Lance, I made no reference nor implication about reinstatement.

              My interest is this. US is the beacon of democracy to the free world. If integrity of election cannot be ascertained in US, it’s a shame.

              Is the integrity ever in doubt. It depends on your partisan view or the news/ information/ misinformation one is exposed.

              For me, putting aside all the tons of evidence and first hand witness affidavits, I sit uneasy with just 3 statistics. That several states can stop their counts at about the same time and have votes flipped the next morning is incredulous. That there are fractional votes which can only be possible if a voter cuts himself into several parts to vote. That timeline of vote tallies can show reductions is a head scretcher.

              But whichever way one stands in this, surely we can all agree it is an issue that has millions of people in US and much more outside the US, on either side of the argument. Given this situation, surely a forensic audit can lay it on the table once and for all. On the side that said everything was above board – well if you are dead sure nothing was stolen and no fraud committed, don’t you want to be exonerated? And in your exoneration, you crush the credibility of the other side once and for all.

              I’m for establishing integrity of the process, not reinstatements of anybody.

              • LCPL_X says:

                chemp, these votes are done county by county; there have been audits in which GOP minders themselves say its good; now these new rounds of audits, fine… but my point is like NH’s point bellow , if irregularities are found 1 year past,

                Do you really think they’ll kick Biden out the WH? you’ll have a bunch of court cases, motions, by the end it will be 2024. I agree with your point about audits strengthening people’s belief in the system. Have at it. audit til the cows come home.

                But I assure you people have moved on, chemp… so I seriously doubt they’ll storm the capitol again. Which is my point. People have moved on.

              • chemrock says:

                Lance
                Once again, I have nothing to do with Micha’s point.
                Is it not good, indeed, is it not democratic, when voices are loud about election integrity to address it. Is it not good to audit and then fix what need to be fixed for future elections?

                To your point about most people moving on, I think it depends on the media/ information / disinformation you are exposed to. Take for example, majority are still living in bliss with the guidance of Dr Fauci in things Covid, but evidence are piling up of his complicity, in fact, culpability, in gains-of-function research and suppression of use of therapeutics which have saved Mexico survive a collapse of the health system and now doing same in India.

          • I find your use of descriptive words, slanderous for Haberman, creepy for President Biden, to be an example of how social media brings out the worst in expression where each individual is allowed to play moral custodian, without fact or context, and shade the world angrier and crazier with each word written.

            • chemrock says:

              I thought Haberman’s reporting or influencing the public via tweets more slanderous. I said she lied and mentioned those instances where she lied. Is that not fact? I said she is a hack and is she not? A political hack is one who works for a partisan political side. Surely wikileaks emails clearly demonstrated she was working in the interest of one party when she ought to be a neutral journalist? Sure the use of hack is pejorative, but working in the interest of a political person whilst professing to be an independent journalist is contemptible, befitting the description of hack.

              Now Micha brought up the August re-instatement. Is that fact, or Haberman’s tweet. Where is the fact?

              As for creepy Joe, ok I agree it is as bad name calling as small hands or orange mops. But still I feel creepy does describe it when one views those videos.

              • LCPL_X says:

                Biden said the little girl looks like she’s 19.

                Which I think was just his way of saying she ‘s a big girl now which little girls love as compliment.

                The legs crossed was just Biden describing how she was sitting.

                Now I think Delaware is a dirrrty state, fake corporations and credit cards and all. I have my opinion of the Bidens which match with yours, chemp.

                But stuff like this I think its just interpretation, so if you think Joe Biden is creepy then you ‘ll hear it as creepy, but if you listen to it as complement, seems Joe is just paying the girl a compliment then dirtied by FOX et al.

                As for biased reporters, they should be fair game. Criticize the critics and their criticism.

              • chemrock says:

                One video in isolation means nothing. Don’t make something out of nothing.
                2,3,4,5 videos do tell something.

              • LCPL_X says:

                That’s called cherry picking , chemp. One can cherry pick all the bargirls comment I’ve made here and conclude I’m some sex maniac; then cherry pick all my religious comments, then say I’m some saint. Then cherry pick, all my comments on crypto and CBDC, conclude I’m some sort of economic hitman.

                Of course I’m just some guy with a lot of time , thus able to post more than the norm. So too Biden he’s got lots of video it depends what you cherry pick. FOX loves to say sleepy Joe, but most talks he’s made thus far seem all normal to me, sure senior moments. Remember the liberal media did this with Trump and Ivanka, suggesting incest.

                But nothing as bad as all the conservative media purports with Biden, so your criticism on liberal/left media cuts both ways too , chemp. its an echo chamber, we should be wary enough to recognize echo chambers. For example Flynn its was also interpretation as i’ve explained; Maricopa plane thingy Google is your friend.

                As for audits, in and of itself its fine, I just hope the people that call for these audits are the ones paying for it and not out of taxpayer expense. Maricopa plane stuff was an easy thing to figure out, Fauci again if you assume he’s a bad guy then like Biden you’d assume the worst. Echo chamber.

                But my theory on all this is that most Americans really didn’t listen to the gov’t nor Fauci and the experts. During the first lockdown people here followed the order but by summer last year and the 2nd wave in the winter, people were actually out and about.

                So I think herd immunity happened here. But Fauci has a tough job. Its an art more than science figuring out people and virus, so I’m more forgiving; compared to say Hillary who knew exactly what would happen if they backed the people during Arab Spring, because we just had Iraq.

                Fauci’s dealing with more unknowns; Hillary was dealing with more knowns. Benefit of the doubt goes to Fauci. But you should be asking whose fronting the bill on these audits , chemp. You’re a banker think like a banker. What’s the ROI?

              • chemrock says:

                Agree cherry picking is not fair argument presentation. If it comes to the crunch, almost every argument can be attacked as cherry picking. But how many instances would then be considered fair comment? Cherry picking and then amplified via media and social media. That’s whats happening. As you said, cuts both ways. But when mainstream media are left-inclined, info is skewed one way.

                I was’nt referring to paying complements to little girls. I was referring to smelling other men’s wives.

                Talking of Flynn, this is one typical example of what you said — interpretation. There are 3 comments here on Flynn. Just wondering if anyone actually tuned in to the rally or simply have attennae picking up just the headlines. For heaven’s sake, Flynn never called for an uprising. He was responding to a question and he said, repeating the question, “Can the kind of uprising going on in Myanmar happen in US? Yes”. That’s all he said. Not a word more. You know what calling for uprising sounds like? It’s ” “stay on the street” and “get more confrontational”. You should know who I was quoting and which side actually called for violence.

                I agree Fauci had a tough job during the pandemic. (By the way, he is the highest paid public employee in US). I won’t even fault him flip flopping mask on mask off, as you said, he is dealing with the unknowns. But the damnation is he lied under oath and emerging evidence suggests culpability in illegal gain of function research. Personally I’m all for mask and social distancing.

                Re audit fees — no state expenditure, all private funding. By the way, I read NY state funding Gov Cuomo’s sexual abuse suits.

              • Karl Garcia says:

                In the old days my grandmother used smelling as a substitute to kissing. That was how she greeted me every time I hug her to say good bye.
                Maybe he prefers smelling instead of kissing, I do not know.

              • My Filipina grandmother did that too.

                Basically it was a slight sniff.

              • NHerrera says:

                Karl, Irineo: It seems the Filipino way, especially our Grandmothers, to be sure we stay healthy, by doing Guli every day — that is, smelling the freshly soaped skin of our once young skin. Hehe.

              • https://opinion.inquirer.net/86444/the-filipino-sense-of-smell – Dr. Gideon Lasco, physician, mountaineer and anthropologist writes about that cultural aspect:

                “..There are also customs that, like those words, can be seen as part of our “smell culture.” Sniffing food before eating it is one of them. Also, the way many Filipinos—and other Southeast Asians—traditionally kiss each other is called “sniff kiss” because it involves the lips touching the cheek, and sniffing. Perhaps this is why halik (kiss) is related to halimuyak (fragrance), which is in turn also associated with feminine sensuality. In the act of kissing—whether in a familial or romantic context—there is a dimension of the olfactory..

                ..As Ambeth Ocampo pointed out in one of his columns, even historical accounts of travelers point to the importance of smells among Filipinos. He adds: “I also remembered people who would travel to distant places carrying an unwashed hanky or article of clothing from a loved one to counter homesickness.” In my own research I dug up an account of an Englishman traveling in the Philippines in the 1700s:

                When the nostril is contracted (as in the act of smelling), and the [Filipino] looks towards a  person at a distance, it is deemed an invitation to a closer embrace. Strange stories are told  of the exquisite sense of smell possessed by the [Filipinos]; that by it they can distinguish  the dresses of their masters and mistresses, and lovers ascertain the state of each other’s affections..”

                Tarantadong Kalbo makes fun of the red-taggers who are paranoid about raised arms using a typically Filipino joke about smell:

              • chemrock says:

                Karl we all smell our love ones. We are animals after all. But do you smell other men’s wives, much as you many want to?

              • Karl Garcia says:

                thanks for the notes on smelling.

                Chemrock, I do not even want to google Biden smelling the said women to confirm this, there are lot of cringeworthy stuff around like when Duterte kisses a girl in public, cringeworthy for me, but others may like it. Your point is taken.

              • I share your revulsion of such claimed indiscretions as we don’t know the truths surrounding the incidents and I would not want to be caught in an intimacy that got fed to video and twisted to perversion to serve some fat white slob’s lunatic needs ala Rush Limbaugh. We know how modern argument is through memes and slanders fed to a base of panting lapdogs like raw liver to a pack of hyenas who pounce on the stuff and lap it up as if they’ve been starved for years. I mean, really. We ought to aspire to some dignity and discuss ideas rather than debate as if pubescent teenagers with a hard-on giggling over Playboy’s ribald classics.

              • Karl Garcia says:

                I will aspire to discuss ideaa with dignity. Thanks.

              • NHerrera says:

                Hear, hear!

              • LCPL_X says:

                chemp,

                I dunno what function research here is and what exactly he’s lied about under oath, but like I said lots of unks so lying under oath has to be provable. What exactly did he lie about???

                As for Flynn, he didn’t just give a one word answer to the question if Myanmar could happen here, his answer was Yes it should. But a day or two later after the liberal media aired this interaction, Flynn offered clarification.

                Can a Myanmar coup happen here? Yes, it should. (i’ll have to watch the video again, but that’s what was said summarized). How you got protest on the streets and confrontational from Myanmar coup is the point, Joe’s was that he was calling for a coup.

                Obviously a specific question was raised. Context of that question was another QAnon type rally. An answer was given, Yes, it should. The “it should” part is the problem. But the question was of a specific kind, the answer general but in the rally context consistent.

                But Flynn then offered clarification. Separate from the rally. Poetry and prose issue. Inciting or 1st amendment. Totality of the situation I’ve concluded poetry and 1st amendment. That’s what me and Joe talked about, his conclusion was Fair enough.

                Your interpretation though is stretching, chemp.

                Same with Maricopa plane, which I’ve clarified using a few searches on Google. Occam’s razor and we have a fair conclusion. Now of course you can continue to say it was the NSA or FBI, etc. But like the Myanmar coup, you’ll be out of the sphere of normal thinking process,

                as you’ll be denying important relevant details, like saying the earth is flat, and I show you the picture of the earth, and you retort we never landed on the moon or that we don’t have satellites up there to be able to take a picture proving the earth is a ball.

                As to Biden’s smelling of wives, I’m familiar with this. it is weird. But your cherry picking can only pay off if you’ve made a theory, like he’s a pedo or he’s got a fetish of smelling , either make it sexually irregular or maybe mental illness, etc.

                My point, when you cherry pick it helps to offer a theory in which the cherry picked items go.

                Otherwise, these are simply quirks that we all have. For example, when I go to a strip joint, I smell the girls there. its a sensory sexual experience and they smell good. The only thing stopping me from smelling my buddies wives or gfs is social norms i have to adhere to.

                But my argument here if you’re a rich or powerful dude, you don’t have to adhere to a lot of these norms. Weinstein, Trump, etc. But unless we see criminal behaviour, it is simply a weird thing.

                It’s up to you to make your case re Biden. I’d be more interested in Delaware as a state, than Biden’s weird quirks, but since the journalists both lib and con haven’t unearthd anything damning on the Bidens , this cherry picking of weird behaviour is just that, chemp.

                Give us a theory, not a shopping list.

                Now for the meat of the matter, who is paying for the audit. Obviously, the first round of audits under Trump were done, like Georgia is a heavy GOP state, and nothing found; the Dem states it was done too and GOP minders saw. Nothing.

                I have a feeling they’ll find nothing again. 90% sure of this, because Trump had his full administration look for irregularities. Nada.

                So the question you have to ask, is who is the private entity funding these audits. Do they really expect to find irregularities after Trump or do they simply want to prepare the field for 2024. That’s the question that needs to be asked, chemp.

              • NHerrera says:

                @Lance, that’s a full blog article there if one mentally fills in some background. I like the concept of a *theory to go along with a cherry-picking list.* Otherwise, to paraphrase you — something may be weird, otherwise, it is just that: a cherry-picking exercise. To stretch the point, we are all someone nutty, somewhat weird from the viewpoint of some. I know that if you ask my wife.

              • 🤣🤣🤣😂🤣🏆🍺👍+10

              • NHerrera says:

                * somewhat nutty

              • LCPL_X says:

                I’m not disparaging conspiracy theories or their utility here (the Boston tea party was conspiracy theory). One could argue if it wasn’t for that much of American history would not have proceeded the way it did.

                But not all conspiracy theories are equal. JFK being killed because he wanted to collaborate on the Space program with the Russians, that to me has preponderance of evidence, so the dots don’t lead anywhere specific, but it does point to a direction.

                For example , Oswald was arrested for the death of a police officer, a police officer also implicated in the shooting of JFK. There’s a lot of theories, Mafia, Cubans, etc. etc. but it being inhouse and due to the space program secrets and Russia, makes the best sense.

                Because of the quality of the operation.

                Until another theory is laid out that explains the dots and lines, you go with the most useful and practical theory.

                The audit being undertaken by Arizona’s GOP Senate, and funded in secret (you can’t figure out who’s paying for it), is suspect enough; but given the fact that Trump’s already gone thru AZ’s votes with a fine tooth comb.

                Tells me this is also a big scam (more than actual audit for truth), like a big GoFundMe page, selling nothing, becuz Trump’s already gone thru it. and nothing found. There’s no taxpayer money, so its like watching people respond to those Nigerian emails of princes asking for help.

                Have at it. There are worst things I suppose like Joel Osteen.

              • The problem with conspiracy theories is they are 99% theory but advocates argue the conspiracy 100%. So much of social media argument is fallacious horseshit nonsense postulated as moral truths. No, it’s nonsense, and when you try to build real life on top of it, it creates a whole lot of angst. And then people start doing really weird shit like shooting up the school yard or incorporating capitol break-ins as proper due process. In America. The US is a land living on the conspiracy part of some really wild-ass theories.

              • Back to bitcoin. I was struck by the last sentence in the article.

                https://www.reuters.com/technology/global-markets-bitcoin-2021-06-03/

              • Skin in the game full disclosure. I have 3 months worth of salary in Bitcoin. 4 if you include DeFi. Trading is 100 more fun than PSE. I just started early May but DeFi is a game changer. AMM and Smart Contracts (no matter how dumb they really are). DAO is an unregulated but infinitely fairer way of doing governance as the rules are all programmed ahead of time and like the constitution an overwhelming majority can be programmed as a requirement for change. I haven’t been this excited about technology since the early web when Iwas back in school.

              • Fantastic. I might have to stop ignoring it!

              • LCPL_X says:

                In the 1980s blacks in LA and LAPD narcotics officers were saying CIA was responsible for injecting coke and crack thru black gangs.

                People said it was conspiracy theory. Ridiculed it.

                Today it’s known as fact. Duane Clarridge was the CIA officer that perpetrated it. To fund his banana wars in Central America; related also to Iran-Contra.

                thus this is the best principle to adopt when talking about these thing, Joe…

                We’re seeing this also with CBDC and crypto. Whether it gets violently opposed is the issue, becuz this phase usually gets passed w/out problems. Straight to self evident.

                1st state is what we have to temper, in order to peacefully pass to 3rd state. Why arguing and debate is important.

              • See theories as theories, fine, see them as truths, that’s a problem. Science is based on theories pointing to new knowledge, not new moral judgments before the facts are in. Critics have little real data to use to attack Biden, because he’s been a dynamic, achievement-oriented President, so they throw up this perversion malarkey as if they knew the President’s inner soul. My guess is there is a greater chance that the people throwing this stuff out are the perverts, acting out their own dark drives. Biden’s just an Irish guy who emotes and flirts and enjoys the opposite sex. Hey! So do I! Seeing that as perversion is perverted political gameplaying. Hey, shaddup and let the President lead Americans to the needle, build bridges, and do other good works.

              • NHerrera says:

                @Irineo, that is a gem of a picture — and you are right about it being a complete article on conspiracy theory after connecting the dots. 🙂

              • LCPL_X says:

                “Bitcoin will be remembered for pushing central banks to adopt digital money,” he said, adding that governments and regulators will ultimately “stop the music.”

                Blanque said that it was much more important for investors to increase their exposure to the renminbi, China’s currency, then diversify into crypto currencies.

                __________________________________

                Makes sense , Joe. But that stop the music is problematic, Micha also said this. But its akin to saying stop the internet. You can censor the internet, ala China/Russia; but the internet still operates still continues, therein lies the problem, how do you stop Bitcoin?

                But I agree with pushing CBDC, becuz it gives crypto Bitcoin dogecoin legimacy. as the balancing force, central vs. de-centralize.

                Vigorous debate should be had on this, especially since BSP is also heading that way; so too the Fed. I’m also Singapore and Germany. We’re also talking about Joe jr. inheritance here, Joe.

              • LCPL_X says:

                Here’s the thread we’re continuing re CBDC and Bitcoin:

                https://joeam.com/2021/05/20/crafting-a-grown-ups-policy-with-china/#comment-430284

        • When I worked at the bank in California, UCLA’s economic forecasts were looked upon favorably for being detached from political bias. Their new forecast is out and explains the migration from California to Arizona and elsewhere. California is becoming too expensive. Here’s a write-up on the latest forecast, projecting a bit of a boom for the Golden State:

          https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2021-06-02/la-fi-california-economy-recovery-ucla-forecast-june-2021

          • LCPL_X says:

            I’d like to see the questionnaire used to divine their reasons for going to Arizona, specifically the Hispanics, Joe. Although I agree its expensive here and that a less expensive place would be sufficient pull to get folks out of California.

            I gotta feeling if the homeless issue was part of that questionnaire you’d have people also checking that box as reason for leaving. Your familiar with downtown LA and the USC area, Joe, well that’s all overrun by homeless now.

            As far as boom, I’d agree more schools are here, silicon valley tech stuff is still here, movies too, and the Chinese are doing business here. But the ones affected by costs and the homeless tend to be working class Hispanics.

            I can’t access the LA times article, i’m on my laptop, but I’m curious if their forecasts focus on mid-income Hispanics. Because my thinking is that the Dems are pushing them to Arizona via not doing anything about the homeless and over taxation, precisely

            to make Arizona democratic… or maybe I’m giving them too much credit. The inaction of the homeless problem just doesn’t make sense unless you factor that in, then it does.

        • LCPL_X says:

          https://www.gemini.com/cryptopedia/amm-what-are-automated-market-makers

          “Automated market makers (AMMs) are part of the decentralized finance (DeFi) ecosystem. They allow digital assets to be traded in a permissionless and automatic way by using liquidity pools rather than a traditional market of buyers and sellers. AMM users supply liquidity pools with crypto tokens, whose prices are determined by a constant mathematical formula. Liquidity pools can be optimized for different purposes, and are proving to be an important instrument in the DeFi ecosystem.”

          gian, this is all good stuff!

          Any chance we can have you write a blog on this topic? Do you think this is good for the Philippines? Individual Filipinos.

          I’m no expert on this just reading, but I have friends who are Bernie die hards and Trump die hards, and this is the stuff they both agree on. As a Luddite, I don’t understand a lot of this, but when two opposing parties actually agree on something, I take notice.

          And this subject of crypto, CBDC and exchanges, either because you wanna make the world a better place or you think the world’s gonna collapse (financial or otherwise). fits anyones plans whether optimist or pessimist, whatever the politics. its all the buzz really.

          So a blog would be timely.

          I don’t get this graph, but it looks interesting.

        • LCPL_X says:

          “Automated market makers (AMMs) are part of the decentralized finance (DeFi) ecosystem. They allow digital assets to be traded in a permissionless and automatic way by using liquidity pools rather than a traditional market of buyers and sellers. AMM users supply liquidity pools with crypto tokens, whose prices are determined by a constant mathematical formula. Liquidity pools can be optimized for different purposes, and are proving to be an important instrument in the DeFi ecosystem.”

          gian, this is all good stuff!

          Any chance we can have you write a blog on this topic? Do you think this is good for the Philippines? Individual Filipinos.

          I’m no expert on this just reading, but I have friends who are Bernie die hards and Trump die hards, and this is the stuff they both agree on. As a Luddite, I don’t understand a lot of this, but when two opposing parties actually agree on something, I take notice.

          And this subject of crypto, CBDC and exchanges, either because you wanna make the world a better place or you think the world’s gonna collapse (financial or otherwise). fits anyones plans whether optimist or pessimist, whatever the politics. its all the buzz really.

          So a blog would be timely.

          • LCPL_X says:

            LOL! I’m like at 0.2.

            • LCPL_X says:

              What is Dapp

              Dapps, or Decentralized Applications, are essentially unstoppable apps, which work on the Ethereum Blockchain and are powered by smart contracts. The main difference from ordinary apps is that Dapps are fully autonomous, they don’t require a middleman to operate and basically immune to censorship. In other words, they establish a direct connection between a user and a service. Through that, users can fully control the information and data they share.

              DAOs are basically a very ambitious breed of decentralized apps. As described in the Ethereum white paper, they fall into ‘other’ category, which includes voting and governance systems. The two other types of Dapps are money managing applications and apps where money is involved, but they also require another piece (insurance, charity, property, etc.).

              https://cointelegraph.com/ethereum-for-beginners/what-is-dao

              _______________________________________________________

              I still don’t understand what DAO is, but I like it.

            • 😂😂😁🤣😂🏆+10

  9. NHerrera says:

    Re good faith, this one is on bad faith.

    Beijing seems to get really addicted to that behavior. “Pilipinas hindi ka nag-iisa.” A big difference, though. When the Malaysian air force scrambled to identify them, the latter flew away. In the Philippines, they sail away — if at all — slower than turtles for reasons superfluous to state.

    https://sg.news.yahoo.com/malaysia-scrambles-jets-intercept-chinese-131436029.html

  10. Joe, I have the feeling Katrina Stuart-Santiago is referring to you.

    Funny that she isn’t answering your post on Twitter tho she could.

  11. chemrock says:

    What is good faith and what is bad faith?

    In your illustration of Pnoy and Mar Roxas I believe you ascribe the meaning to it as good-intentioned. This is actually subjective. One’s hero is another’s terrorist. Duterte’s EJK is well-intentioned as far as he personally believes.

    Let’s see if I can unpack Jean-Paul Sartre’s existentialism and see if it provides meaning here. We are all dual beings. We have a ‘being-in-itself’ and a ‘being-for-itself’. ‘In-itself’ loosely corresponds to the sub-conscious. It is passive, inert, self-identical and fixed. It is the sum status of our situation, much like it is what it is. If you have a moral compass, you simply have it. If you are a passionless killer, you are what you are. ‘For-itself’ is akin to the conscious. It is non-identical and dynamic. It is the internal negation of the ‘in-itself’ due to external stimulus. Thus the ‘in-itself’ is facticity whilst the ‘for-itself’ is transcendental. External factors may cause us to internalise and transcend the being-in-itself.

    In existentialism, authenticity means acting in congruent with facticity, no matter what the external pressures may be. The action does not transcend the person’s ‘being-in-itself”. We say that person is acting or living ‘in good faith’. Thus in your example, Pnoy and Mar Roxas acted in good faith if we assume they are moral persons and the actions were for moral good. By the same token, if we, just for discussion here, say D30 is immoral and he took immoral EJK action, he also acted in good faith because his act has authenticity as it’s in congruence with his ‘being-in-itself’.

    Conversely, inauthenticity is where action is not in congruent with facticity. External pressures caused the person to act out of character of his ‘in-itself’. His action transcended his ‘being’in’itself’.

    Thus the meaning of good faith as carried by this article, is explained in existentialism as :
    – a moral ‘being-in-itself’ acting in good faith with authenticity, or
    – an immoral ‘being-in-itself’ acting in bad faith without authenticity.

    • LCPL_X says:

      As far as pattern recognition, attempting to divine people’s actions or intentions, this is perfect; but as Machiavelli already posited (having been the victim of being trampled by titans) hard to divine or even match up peoples intentions and actions, maybe times they are incongruent. Thus consistency is abnormal. Normalcy is incongruence, how to navigate that is the issue.

      There’s no good and bad, there’s only faith or whatever one has ascribed good bad onto something. That’s why if BBM/Imee paid Inday Sara the visit 2 days ago, or Inday Sara summoned them, is important to know. Who cares what they had for lunch or dinner, that seems to be what Filipino journalists care more about, which

      I think is Joe’s point to the blog, not so much good/bad faith but just professional journalism.

    • The Constitution is the moral book. Following it gives authenticity.

      • NHerrera says:

        Yes. Even in this audit thing, whether or not expressed by Trump, his reinstatement — whether by Flynn’s coup or otherwise — must end somewhere. WHAT DOES THE CONSTITUTION SAY ABOUT IT? Otherwise let us assume academically, if a subsequent set of audits, finds that the previous audits were wrong, will Biden, in turn, be reinstated? And so on. Here is where a literal understanding of the Constitution is useful.

        Now to use the results of the audit for the campaign in the 2022 and 2024 elections is par for the course, although for sure the Democrats will claim that this was the result of a very partisan GOP audit, etc.

        • NHerrera says:

          Move for amending the Constitution to include reinstatement should a bipartisan audit (har, har, har on the first word) finds that the electoral college votes as certified by Congress were erroneous as a result of the audits? Then banana will be the national fruit.

      • chemrock says:

        Joe, that’s brilliant. I said I wrestled with the ideas in existentialism, but you saw it with clarity easily.

        Indeed, in the context of this article, the Constitution is facticity and cannot be transcended ….. except through referendum.

        So now it is so very easy to see. All acts that transcend the constitution is bad faith. Thus D30’s EJK is bad faith.

        It has been there before our eyes all along.

  12. caliphman says:

    Ahaha. The road to hell is paved with the assumed good faith, questionable moral standards, and utter incompetence of those in power. It is curious that many comments here express diametrically opposing assessments of US leaders and events instead of the stark reality of the hellish inferno that has engulfed the Philippines that the masses of its people and leaders have embraced. Then again Americans were only recently fast catching up to the all power to the president rule of the likes of Duterte, Bolsanero, etc. supported by their accolytes and adoring minions.

    • Well, the blog article is just a conceptual effort, rather like some kid’s term paper that goes to the teacher and then into a drawer. Nothing here is going to change the course of the Philippines. It’s bogged down in a broad, thick patina of dumb and self-punishing greed and nonsense. Joltin’ Joe’s got the US back on track. The conspiracy nuts will have to be dealt with in due course. God took care of Limbaugh and we’ll see what happens to the rest.

  13. mariaembry says:

    “the price of freedom is eternal vigilance” i was a critic of PNoy, now am a critic of PDuterte because i want them & all other officials to do a better job for the Philippines especially for my anti human trafficking advocacy folks are truly blind & deaf not to know that EJK violates the rule of law & thatprotecting the interest of China against your very own country is  treason 

    • Thank you for being candid Maria. You have a tremendously important advocacy. One of my daughters in the US does work with a shelter for battered women, and it makes a huge, real difference to people trapped and powerless. We need not argue over President Aquino. My expectations are different than most, I’ve discovered, and aren’t so demanding. But I can understand he let people down on this or that.

  14. caliphman says:

    You will find no argument here from someone who voted for Joltin Joe and is aligned with the Lincoln Republican movement. Not sure I will prevail with God to deal with the 70 million trumped supporters as He did in “good faith” with Limbaugh. But then again there are 80 million Americans like me that live in another galaxy, a separate reality,follow an alternate constitution, and believe contradictory truths dispensed by dualistic pandering media. There is no assurance that the course of this country will not follow that of the Philippines in the next four years. But thanks to God and certainly a lot to Biden, the new administration was much more competent, regardless of the degree of presidential good faith, in controlling a raging pandemic that has claimed the luves of 600,000 Americans.

  15. caliphman says:

    Darn it! There, did that do it for you? 🤣😝

  16. NHerrera says:

    This item is from Washington Post. It is just a heads-up item.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2021/06/03/trump-facebook-oversight-board/

    Excerpts:

    “Facebook plans to announce Friday that it will no longer automatically give politicians a pass when they break the company’s hate speech rules, a major reversal after years of criticism that it was too deferential to powerful figures during the Trump presidency.

    “Since the 2016 election, the company has applied a test to political speech that weighs the newsworthiness of the content against its propensity to cause harm. Now the company will throw out the first part of the test and will no longer consider newsworthiness as a factor, according to a person familiar with the company’s thinking who spoke on the condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to speak publicly.

    “But Facebook doesn’t plan to end the newsworthiness exception entirely. In the cases where an exception is made, the company will now disclose it publicly, the person said — after years of such decisions being closely held. And it will also become more transparent about its strikes system for people who violate its rules.”

  17. caliphman says:

    I posted this shoutout buried way above to my friend chemmy .

    Its good o know you are still gracing the blog with your presence, chemmy. Even better to learn you are not a Trump defender as that can be a rather mind (if not truth) bending proposition. I too remain a conservative at heart, unsure of MM economic theory,free enterprise, government intervention where it is required to serve the pressing public good. That used to be what the GOP party stood for(the same one that a white man named Lincoln led in believing political equity and equality for AfroAmericans). This is now established as the party of Trump and stands for whatever serves his interest and no public policy agenda except what GOP leaders will induce QAnon and his other diehard followers to keep

    • caliphman says:

      ….themselves in power.

    • chemrock says:

      Good to see you here too.
      I see Qanon mentioned again. I actually referred to Qanon and cult in my comment earlier in the daywhich went to spam. These are coronas of expediency to put on anyone so much as mentions the T word.

      Someone said whatever Biden touches turn to crab. I see you differ.

      ME is turning into a mess. Iran is roaring again. Mr Kim is shooting his rockets again. US is now open for hacking. China just told Blinken to his face US has no qualification to demand from a position of strength. Back home the New Black Panther Party can hold armed rally in Tulsa and say “one day we will have to kill anything in white”, $6B and another $5B on the way is pushing inflation for sure now. shutting down Keystone pipeline and Alaska gas projects are good faith for climate change policy but lifting sanction on Russian gas pipeline and buying oil from Iran is not oxymoronic, the border illegal immigration is still the previous admin’s fault and the solution is to solve the racist problem of climate change in Latin American countries, and so on and so on and scooby dooby dooby.

      I don’t care if it’s blue or red so long as it’s things one can cheer about. Sorry I can’t find anything to cheer about, honestly.

  18. chemrock says:

    STATEMENT>/b>

    Out of respect for this blog, which I honestly think is a very good and relevant topic in the context of Philippines politics, this will be my last comment touching on US politics as it tends to hijack the conversation. This is to (a) open the book on where I stand as some are baffled by my seemingly flipping from an anti-Marcos (as if Trump is Marcos) anti-populist views, (b) respond to some points raised, (c) to put on record as a marker here some matters so I can refer back to say “I told you so”.

    I can see I’m in an echo chamber here as far as views on US politics are concerned. There is no purpose in throwing something out for discussion if minds are closed. I can take counter views that come with a fair argument, which is what I get from Lance, even though I may disagree with him. My only problem with Lance is sometimes he gets a bit trollish.

    Anybody that takes a conservative view and supports pro-Trump policies is immediately a cult follower and Qanon nut. I’ve been called the later very often, many times by our dear Mary Gonzalez. I find it very insulting to my intellect. Here’s where I stand. I have actually never even heard of Qanon until maybe 5 ago by name recognition. I never bothered to find out what it is until maybe only 3 years ago. Up till today, I still don’t exactly know what it is all about and I don’t pay attention. I’m a conservative at heart by that I mean someone who believes in a moralistic God, an examined life, a moral compass, law and order, loyalty to country, take responsibility for my own life. A conservative is not a gun-totting hairy-chested, N-word spouting monster that the media make it out to be. I support some, not all, of Trumps policies from the perspective of a foreigner. If I were an American, I would support more. But it is always about policies. I separate conservative policies from the mud-slinging, the wheat from the chaff. That does not mean I’m totally against Liberal policies. There are some I support but it is increasingly difficult to see good policies coming from the WH today.

    As a distant observer, to me, Trump’s greatest contribution to the US is he unknowingly forced the extreme Left out into the open. The Marxist Left had been germinating in the shadows for decades. They are now out in the open when they still do not have strength in numbers yet. The demographics today is 26% Liberals. They played their hands too early and will be mauled in 2022. Marxists are very long term players whereas conservatives watch only near term markets. McCarthyism never ridded US of the commies.

    Obama is a master community organiser which he learnt well from Saul Alinksy’s Institute. While the GOP was sleeping, the Dems organised the base extremely well, especially during Obama’s time. The media, big tech and schools do not suddenly turn anti-Trump overnight. Why do GOP controlled swing states have AG and secretaries of states that are aliied to the Dems. Because all politics are local. Liberals understood this and invested in state executives. If the GOP lost because they were lax, they deserve it. George Sorros invested heavily at the state levels. 17 AGs were sponsored by him. His most famous AG Gascon’s latest act – he is arranging an early release for a double-homicide convict. His other AGs and State secretaries are all resisting the audits in the swing states . The sheriff he sponsored in Maricopa (to the tune of US$4m) inserted himself into the executives’ fight against releasing the router equipment to the auditors. What has a sheriff got to do with this?

    But why do I say 2022 will be a surprise for Pelosi? Probably for most of you here TSOH too because the popular media makes no mention of undercurrents. The conservative base have awakened. You see them taking over school boards. You see them getting into local Selectmen Committees. You see them demanding action at local Election Supervisor Board meetings. You see them galvanising non-establishment GOP legislative to act on improving election integrity laws and the audits.

    My parents escaped from communist China to Singapore almost a century ago. As a young kid, I easedropped on village menfolk as they chatter over a radio blarring out news from China during the cultural revolutions, listening to tales of children turning against parents, relatives snitching relatives, friends snitching friends, students snitching teachers, colleagues snitching colleagues. We heard tales of the unfortunates going for public mocking, thrown out of homes, schools, offices and into the streets, to re-education centres, or distant farms for hard labour. In my pre-teens I lived through street battles of communist youths against our British overlords, how the communist actually gained control of our legislature. Our history would have been different had it not been for a young lawyer by the name of Lee Kuan Yew who outfoxed the reds. In the US today, I see the cancel culture, the shaming of people, forced racial equity training in corporate world, the woke inspired curriculum for schools. It’s a replica of the turmoil of communist China, yet many are unable to see through the veil of pretend social justice and equity that is being weaved.

    ——————————

    Just some points here :

    1. On Karl who said he does not bother googling about creepy Joe. Good for you Karl, because it will be difficult for you. Youtube, FB, Google has done a great job to shield you from these bad stuff.

    Don’t criticise me as conspiracy theorist. CNN, Wapo and a few others have already admitted that’s what they did. It’s no longer conspiracy theory now. Go ask CNN’s Charlie Chester how they cooked anti-Trump news. I’m not cherry picking Chester, I’m just quoting an example. Hope you can see the difference in lexicon.

    I recommend “Breaking The News”. It’s a NYT best seller. OK I know it’s Alex Marlow from Breitbart, you won’t like it. Another Qanon.

    2. ON Lance who said 2,3,4,5 videos on creepy somebody is cherry picking. Kind of difficult the lexicon, it’nt it? Cherry pick and Examples. Lance said sniffing somebody’s hair is no creepy but weird. Again difficult lexicon. I thought good old dictionaries shown they are antonyms.

    3. On Flynn I said the spoken word was “Can” but Lance said “It should” without watching the speech. Where did you cherry pick that ‘it should’ from Lance?

    4. On Maggie Haberman I said she lied and she is a political hack. Joe said it’s wrong to thrash someone without facts. Wikileaks showed the emails which I referenced, Those are smoking guns.

    5. On the audits, many points to address which I won’t because no one is interested. I mean SCOTUS can make a court decision in 10 minutes, what is there to say. I will only say this — there have been a few audits, all said nothing to see here folks. But these were all conducted by the executives. If the thieves audit the thieves, what do you expect? New Hampshire audit, just completed, was audited by 3 teams — all related to Pelosi and the voting machine vendors. What reports do you expect?

    Arizona audit is different. It is the Legislative conducting the audit. Absolutely transparent. Using top people in the cybersecurity industry. One of the term Cyberninjas, CEO is a 2015 SANS awardeee. SANS Institute is the world’s leading cybersecurity training institute. Another personality whose technology is being used is Jolovan Pulitzer whose patents can be found in practically every electronic device you are using right now. Karl if you were to google, all you will find are damaging reports on Jolovan and Cyberninjas. There is nothing good you can find, I guarantee you. So don’t bother.

    Lance repeats the insinuation of the funding. There is no secret there, Lance. I mentioned the other non-independent audits by secretaries of states, those were official (eye wash) audits thus tax payers funded the audits. I said eyewash because they were restrictive in scope, not transparent, and done by the insidious group of people related to machine vendors, lined to Pelosi. Arizon audit is public funded, thus obsiously by conservatives folks and corporations.

    6. On Fauci lying under oath — Lance brushed it aside. Everyone lies, he said. Sure thing, but does that make it OK? People commit murders. That;s OK? Remember this blog is about good faith,

    7. On gains-of-function —- Lance asked what is this? I’m not expert, but just on covid, because it relates to the Fauci point, may I share what I know? From the SARS-cov2 genome scientists noted something peculiar. On the spiked protein (virus is a protein) there is something they call the furin cleveage. Corona virus do not have this furin cleveage. This points to lab work – someone was able to mutate the virus and added this feature. This has increased the virus function massively. Virus are activated when it enters cells by fusion. If it can’t penetrate the cell membranes, it dies off after some time. Furin is an enzyme which activates a virus by helping it to cut through our body’s cell membranes. The fusion cleveage increases the infectivity of the virus. When we say a virus is infectious, it does’nt it can get into us more easily. All sorts of virus enters our body when we are exposed to an atchoo. The SARS-cov2, with the added furin cleveage, can get into body cells easily. That’s why it is called infectious.

    Why does Fauci stand? He has been funding this research. It was determied in 2014 to be too dangerous, so the US banned it. The research was shipped over to China, to the Wuhan lab. Fauci continued to fund the project. Closely involved was scientist Dr. Barrick, When WHO went to investigate the Wuhan lab, Bsrrick was in the team. Can you see the pattern? Thieves audit thieves. WHO gave China and Wuhan good grades. No gain of function research, no lab-made virus.

    ——————————

    There have been unimaginable amount of gaslighting. Sure, conservatives try to make the left look bad, and vice versa. But the left controls media, so guess who is winning. There are lots of fact checking sites. But who checks the fact checkers. The Left has this covered. Take a deep dive to find out who are behind the fact ckecking sites before you place your trust in them.

    I have been to Facebook jail 2 times. All for just sharing a link about covid therapeutics Mr Zuckerberg did not like. Because they want everyone vaccinated.

    May I cheery pick this one example to illustrate?

    “In light of ongoing investigations into the origin of COVID-19 and in consultation with public health experts, we will no longer remove the claim that COVID-19 is man-made or manufactured from our apps,” Facebook said on Wednesday.

    Hurray, we can now comment and share links on subject matter of lab-leak covid. Mr Zuckerberg has granted us the right.

    We are in a different world as far as the exposure to information / misinformation is concerned. Thus we come with different perspectives and depth of understanding. In this light, I will cherry pick these 3 points so one day when we look back I can say “I told y’all”

    1. Fauci will exit soon. His culpability are coming into light. Conspiracy theorists wrote about a lot of this since 2014, nobody paid attention. It’s not you said I said she said. It’s emails after FOI demands by truth seekers.

    2. The Arizona audit will show once and for all, what the hell happened. I’m for let the evidence lead the way. Don’t close your eyes to the evidence and ask where is the evidence. Other swing states will follow the Arizona audit model.

    3. GOP will regain the Lower House in 2022.

    4. There is a possibility Trump will run for Congress in 2022 and take over Pelosi’s job.

    1-3 I’m certain. 4 is just a possibility.

    THAT’S IT. I’M DONE WITH US POLITICS HERE.

    • Point number 4 on predictions seems to be missing the name. I can insert it if you wish.

    • I enjoyed the read, actually. It’s like gaining insights into what drives the radical right in the US. There are two things about the conservative movement that I find disturbing. One is Trump’s ‘style’ which is abrasive at best and nasty and abusive at worst. I can see these with my own two eyes. I don’t like the guy or his values. The second is the willingness of both parties, and the GOP in particular, to put politics above laws, traditions, and decency. Trump’s failure to recognize the Biden electoral win, and inciting the capitol riot, are horrible reflections of our angry and uncivil times. These, too, I can see with my own eyes, so they are factually certain.

      My blog on good faith is not just a Philippine topic, but derives from seeking to tone down the name-calling, fallacious arguments, loyalty to people rather than principles, and social-media flame-throwing. The grounding has to be different and clear. The best grounding for me is the Constitution. Adhering to it deserves good faith respect. Abandoning or abusing it does not. So it is hard to grant good faith to either Duterte or Trump in major dealings. But for the rest of us, and for commenters here, the simple business of respecting other commenters can make the blog meaningful. Not doing that makes it trash. So the blog, and my struggles in editing it toward civil discussion, mirrors what is going on in politics in both the US and Philippines.

      • “Former Vice President Mike Pence called the Jan 6. riots on Capitol Hill a ‘dark’ and ‘tragic’ day in American history and said he is not sure if he and former President Trump will ‘ever see eye to eye on that day’”

        Reuters, today

      • chemrock says:

        I share your ideals on blog etiquette. My apologies if I’m in breach sometimes. It’ s unintentional and not out of disrespect. Passionate arguments have a funny effect. The fingers can move faster at the keyboard than the minds.

        I have mentioned I too am no fan of Trump’s style. In fact I was never a fan of Trump when he entered the political fray. I tipped over by the pull factor of his policies and his doggedness to get things done by not pandering to political correctness, and the push factor of the Left’s total eclipse of all things positive on Trump, the amplification of all things negative of him, and the Russian delusion. In defence of him, I would say the nastiness, whilst a fact, were fully overblown by media bias and the recipients of his verbiage were mostly all who had extended same to him but goes unreported.

        One incident of a much younger Trump that earned my respect was a project he did in New York city. It had the ethos of a Singapore work ethics of the past, a parallel that drew my attention on him. The rink closed for repair and the city struggled for more than a decade to get it fixed and reopened. Millions were poured in and contractors came and went. Part of the problem was due to the poor fiscal situation of the city. Finally the mayor decided to shut it down for good. A young Trump offered to do it for free at a cost for which he can recoup from operating the rink as a non-profit. Trump completed 2 months ahead of schedule and almost $1 million under budget. The rink opened in time for Xmas 1986 and mayor Ed Koch hailed Trump a hero. A Trump Trust was given the concession to operate for several years. Of course come 2021 Dem Mayor Bill de Blassio severed relationship with Trump. The orange mop may be a bastard, but he is manager who means business. Things get done. Of course we see in our work places all the time, there are more people who prefer very friendly managers but never get things done.

        I am in total agreement the good faith argument is rightly to be centred on the constitution. In this respect, the media is silent on Dems attack on the constitution in several areas. The Fed wants to gain control of election process which is a state domain. Pelosi wants statehood for DC and Puerto Rico which is crazy for she has not standing locus. It must be the residents of territories that themselves organise for statehood, not for Fed to determine. Then of course the 2nd Amendment rights that they want to shut out.

    • chemrock says:

      Thks, I just noted. Trump may run for Congress. He is mulling it. Go Congress, kick Pelosi out. 2024 come what may.

    • NHerrera says:

      Chempo, like our editor, I enjoyed reading the well-written, clear expanded comment which I view as this is where I am coming from, these are my beliefs and predictions, and here are my reasons.

    • LCPL_X says:

      Flynn: “No reason… I mean… it should happen here. No reason.” (at around :30 )

      The original video I saw which informed my initial comments with Joe on this, I can’t find anymore, but it was of Flynn on stage video facing stage, same event and everything said otherwise, chemp. That’s the transcript.

  19. chemrock says:

    Joe my last comment went to spam.
    If that’s your doing it’s fine with me. I defer to your perogative.
    I’m just wondering, is all.

  20. LCPL_X says:

    chemp,

    Sorry, you feel I’m trollish, but I’m sure you’ll agree the absence of name calling is better than arguing with Micha. As to the meat of the arguments I read somewhere that killer bees produce sweeter honey, thus maybe more protective of their honey.

    But apiarist do agree to it being sweeter. 😉

    I’ll not belabor the Flynn point, it can it should, my point was simply that he didn’t just say Yes. And that the rally was another QAnon, Lock Her Up rally. He knew is audience. but he’s covered under 1st Amendment.

    Creepy Joe, I’ve been banned here several times for my comments on Biden, chemp, so I’m not playing contrarian with you I’m just asking wheres the evidence. Lists are lists whether you call it cherry picking or not, they are not propositions.

    Arguments are built on propositions.

    For the audits and Fauci, I promise to post more. These two require deep dives, on my part as I’ve not considered them seriously really. And since we have the go ahead with Joe on continuing with these matters as it relates to good faith, we’ll proceed.

    I’ll on my part ensure to tug it back to good faith.

    These publicly funded audits do exactly what you’re talking about, chemp, undermines democracy. That’s my initial feel, will require evidence to make my case.

    As to Fauci, this relates to the whole issue of the US giving money to everyone around the world, globalists policies come back to bite. But how that connects with the actual pandemic, I’ll have to Google more.

    • LCPL_X says:

      The audits that happened under Trump while he was in office weren’t just done in Dem states, chemp.

      Wisconsin, Arizona, Georgia and Michigan. Are heavy GOP states, sure New Hampshire could be hoodwinked by the Dems, but you can’t say that for those 4 states.

      Georgia was prominent, the GOP looked, nothing.

      So your assumption that the GOP who were in office and over saw things, or that the GOP were so powerless that the Dems steam rolled the GOP minders in those 4 heavy GOP states is just wrong.

      Trump and the GOP tried to go to courts do recounts to no avail. I’d add Nevada and NM too has GOP minders to oversee. This presumption of a powerless GOP under the Trump presidency is wrong. Just wrong.

      ” New Hampshire audit, just completed, was audited by 3 teams — all related to Pelosi and the voting machine vendors. What reports do you expect?”

      I’ll give you Pelosi for NH, chemp, but the actual contested states, I doubt were so easily subverted. Given the GOP minders in those states. Thus the GOP had their day in court and in the counts, and failed to deliver, is the most rational conclusion.

      I’m still Googling these tech voting machines and “publicly” funded audits. Just wanted to address NH and Pelosi, a bit of slight of hand here chemp on your part.

      • Good to see you in full-bore analytical mode, selling nothing. I purposefully avoided comment because it is easy to get triggered by chempo’s argument. I personally cheer that my daughters in the US survived, are vaccinated, and are doing their good works. I attach that to President Biden. I also like seeing fans back in basketball arenas, and stocks are holding strong in spite of Biden’s liberal initiatives.

        • Germany and most of Europe is slowly getting back on track as well. The daily mail update I get from Süddeutsche Zeitung has switched from showing incidence rates (roughly the 7-day no of new infections per 100K people) to vaxx rates per state.

          Looks really good with almost half of Germans having gotten first dose and almost one fifth of Germans already with two doses. Most of the EU going at the same rate, except Hungary which went faster with Sputnik in the mix, and Bulgaria going inexplicably slow.

          Restaurants have reopened for outside dining, gyms have reopened for those who have been infected already within the last six months, those with two doses and two weeks after the second dose, as well as those who have had a quick PCR test.

          Don’t need to go to one of the two quick testing centers in walking distance – a Greek gambling joint and a popular chicken restaurant both otherwise still closed due to lockdown – as I am by definition fully immunized tomorrow, 2 weeks after 2nd jab.

          Interestingly my yellow WHO vaccine passport which I have had since I was a baby also has a record of my smallpox jab back in 1978, with official DOH stamp. FYI this is a cool Filipino YouTube video to convince vaccine hesitant “Takunas”, featuring “Papa Bakuna”.

          • LCPL_X says:

            “Good to see you in full-bore analytical mode, selling nothing.”

            I’m always selling something , Joe. I’m trying to lead all this to CBDC. Tall order I know. LOL!

            As to this Dems controlling state AGs, if that were the case why weren’t they able to stop Trump from becoming President. You can’t have it both ways. I’m here mostly to sell something, but also poking holes at weak propositions.

            • chemrock says:

              Lance

              i promised to zip up on US politics. I appreciate your critique because you provide your counters, and you often try to provide a different perspective of viewing an issue, sometimes good, sometimes like a guy after 2 six-packs. Don’t mean I agree with you. I just hv to say that quite a few issues I believed in over the past few years were bashed as conspiracies (not just in TSOH), but they have become fact. As far as conspiracies go, I’m selective, going through an impossible /possible /probable filter and cross-checking, and most importantly seeking the question — who benefits, and then tracking that line. Follow the money is always key.

              Look, UFO is now a reality.

              You have been click baiting CBDC. My Bitcoin project is almost done. I’ll ask Joe permission to put it here then we can all share and input our thoughts all in one place. If not, then I’ll just put a link somewhere.

    • LCPL_X says:

      6. On Fauci lying under oath — Lance brushed it aside. Everyone lies, he said. Sure thing, but does that make it OK? People commit murders. That;s OK? Remember this blog is about good faith,

      7. On gains-of-function —- Lance asked what is this? I’m not expert, but just on covid, because it relates to the Fauci point, may I share what I know? From the SARS-cov2 genome scientists noted something peculiar. On the spiked protein (virus is a protein) there is something they call the furin cleveage. Corona virus do not have this furin cleveage. This points to lab work – someone was able to mutate the virus and added this feature. This has increased the virus function massively. Virus are activated when it enters cells by fusion. If it can’t penetrate the cell membranes, it dies off after some time. Furin is an enzyme which activates a virus by helping it to cut through our body’s cell membranes. The fusion cleveage increases the infectivity of the virus. When we say a virus is infectious, it does’nt it can get into us more easily. All sorts of virus enters our body when we are exposed to an atchoo. The SARS-cov2, with the added furin cleveage, can get into body cells easily. That’s why it is called infectious.

      Why does Fauci stand? He has been funding this research. It was determied in 2014 to be too dangerous, so the US banned it. The research was shipped over to China, to the Wuhan lab. Fauci continued to fund the project. Closely involved was scientist Dr. Barrick, When WHO went to investigate the Wuhan lab, Bsrrick was in the team. Can you see the pattern? Thieves audit thieves. WHO gave China and Wuhan good grades. No gain of function research, no lab-made virus.

      ——————————

      Actually this is what I said,

      chemp,

      I dunno what function research here is and what exactly he’s lied about under oath, but like I said lots of unks so lying under oath has to be provable. What exactly did he lie about???

      And you didn’t exactly elaborate as to what Fauci lied about but after much Googling since early morning (though I admit I Googled more about DAO and on gian‘s post ), Fauci hasn’t really done anything criminal.

      As someone who deals with big organizations, chemp. You should know this better than most. I’m just Googling here. But why would Fauci be culpable for COVID19 if all you have really is funding that used to go from state to state; then as you’ve pointed out during Obama’s time was stopped;

      then went from state to NGO to state (US and China are states). This is like a money laundering case, you’d have to actually have Fauci signing these checks and most importantly ear marking the specific study you’ve explained above. https://www.ecohealthalliance.org/partners (Fauci isn’t CEO there)

      Which takes us to function research, chemp.

      And this one weirdly connects with our long thread on the Theory of Evolution. In which you say it’s God, and where I said it doesn’t require God (although you can inject Her anywhere in it), but more on the process of mutation and transmutation (and speciation).

      I’m not gonna be researching further into this process, as I’m not qualified , so we’ll just take your summation in good faith.

      The question now is what produced COVID19 (or the virus that cause it). Sure we’ve known how to engineer viruses, so human made corona virus is plausible; And we also know how viruses mutate and mutate again, I don’t know if speciation plays a role here, but we’ve had all these variants already.

      That’s the science of it in a nutshell. Unless you wanna add more. I don’t think we need to become virologists to affect our arguments here. My point, no way to know human or nature made. Unless you have more on this, let’s stop there.

      What Fauci lied about and/or what he’s culpable for is the thing being debated.

      Assuming bad faith, that Fauci wants to spread COVID19 to the rest of the world, how does this act profit him?

      Assuming criminal negligence, that Fauci funded bad research, and China spread it, how does that connect to him?

      Or is his fault simply that he said, it couldn’t have come from that Wuhan lab? If that’s his fault in all this, that’s neither criminal nor negligence, if anything he’s simply acting on good faith, that China has no reason to spread it. Or that the Wuhan lab ‘s protocols guaranteed safeguarding of said study.

      I myself think states and folks have no reason for spreading COVID19, chemp, but I’ve also been banned by Joe for proposing Bill Gates part in all this. So if your argument is more the Thanos argument, then I’ll be open to it. But Joe might not agree. Up to him.

      But again the conspiracy part of the theory has to be backed with evidence. Otherwise its just Intelligent Design theory, you have a gut feeling, and you want to share that gut feeling as school curriculum. Or as science. It’s not science, until you have evidence.

      Hard to make a curriculum on Guys, I have a hunch here, let’s study my hunch. That’s why theories are not all equal, they have to be backed by proof. Other people have to be able to chime in pro or con.

      So my gist here is , Fauci basically just “lied” (in quotes) about the likelihood of Wuhan lab spreading COVID19. Intentionally or by accident, Fauci just doesn’t seem culpable here , chemp. Maybe ding him for good faith naivete, that he thought China Wuhan lab had tight security protocols.

      Or ding him for not elaborating his connection to Wuhan , but as chief virologist for decades now, I don’t really know his exact title, he’d have worked with a bunch of labs in world.

      Meaning, he’ll be connected to all labs and their studies around the world, one way or another. Just so happens this particular study function research got on the radar. And lo and behold , he was connected to it.

      But again , I’ll ask…

      chemp,

      I dunno what function research here is and what exactly he’s lied about under oath, but like I said lots of unks so lying under oath has to be provable. What exactly did he lie about???

  21. Re Dr. Fauci this Twitter thread is highly instructive IMO:

    • LCPL_X says:

      Oh, so can tell if its man made or not, what I wonder how they do this, given the rate of mutation on viruses. Interesting. thanks!

      So that’s the reason why Fauci said it cannot be from Wuhan lab.

      • LCPL_X says:

        “You don’t want to go to Hoboken, New Jersey or to Fairfax, Virginia to be studying the bat-human interface that may lead to an outbreak, so you go to China,” Fauci said.

        “The Wuhan lab is a very large lab, to the tune of hundreds of millions if not billions of dollars — the grant that we’re talking about was $600,000 over five years,” Fauci said.

        The grant in question was given to a group called EcoHealth Alliance in 2002, which then paid the Wuhan Institute of Virology, which collects genetic material from wildlife and experiments with live viruses in animals to gauge human susceptibility.

        Fauci argued the amount of NIH funding which went to the lab was relatively low.

        “We’re not talking about the Communist Chinese party. We’re not talking about the Chinese military. We’re talking about scientists that we’ve had relationships for years,” Fauci said.

        https://www.newsnationnow.com/the-donlon-report/dr-anthony-fauci-responds-to-criticism-of-wuhan-lab-funding-release-of-thousands-of-his-emails/

        As to how much the grant was $100,000 plus a year for 5 years does seem small. And the reason for said grant makes sense. So there’s really no money issue. IMHO

  22. Pictures of the new BioNTech plant in Marburg which just started churning out the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine with expected capacity of one billion doses / year

  23. LCPL_X says:

    “A conservative is not a gun-totting hairy-chested, N-word spouting monster that the media make it out to be. I support some, not all, of Trumps policies from the perspective of a foreigner.”

    chemp, just for laughs you might wanna check out this page:

    https://www.gofundme.com/f/save-aocs-abuelas-ancestral-home ($104,000 raised thus far, i don’t know if the money’s actually going to where its intended, but conservatives calling liberals out, but the fund raising is the point hope it gets to AOC’s grandma. but the comments are funny.)

    • chemrock says:

      I am aware of this.
      I was writing something about champagne socialist in my other chat groups. You know, rich socialists who talk of raising taxes on the rich and redistribution to the poor. Just don’t take my money. I cherry picked an example, Bernie Sanders. He used to say tax the millionaires, until his books had a good run and he became a millionaire. Then he said tax the billionaires.
      Now I can expand my cherry pick list to AOC.

      • chemrock says:

        Incidentally, for those who don’t know about this AOC thingy, let me rub it in.

        Champagne socialist AOC pitied grandma, damaged home and no furniture. If it were you, I’m sure you go to Ikea and buy some stuff for your grandma and do the best you can, right?. No, it’s Trump’s fault. Funny she did’nt blame the racist climate change.

        The gofundme was started my Matt Walsh. This Walsh is not the comedian of the same name. Matt Walsh here is a popular conservative talk host. He said AOC won’t help grandma, I’ll help. We can safely assume a big chunk of contributions came from Walsh’s conservative fan base. God fearing people, always willing to help.

        • All the old stereotypes are crumbling. I think of banks as conservative and Republicans as conservative but today we learn that Chase Morgan will resume political donations, but not to the Republicans who would not recognize Joe Biden as President. Now we learn that the liberal bartender puts political gamesmanship ahead of helping granny. I think more people need to become Baptists and learn about Jesus. Baptists are good at Bible studies.

    • LCPL_X says:

      “Arizon audit is public funded, thus obsiously by conservatives folks and corporations.”

      Well, since we’re here now, let me just tie this AOC gofundme to your point above about this Arizona audit being public funded,

      And to tie it in to Joe’s good faith blog, I’m pretty sure 80% of those that gave money for AOC’s “abuela” (by the way that’s where Filipino word Lola came from , small world), were just folks (Trumpists too i’m sure) who wanted to give the finger to AOC;

      I’m gonna assume 20% gave in good faith here. Either way 100% gave what totalled $104,000+ , seems the fund raiser now is done. I gotta feeling Matt Walsh will rub AOC’s face with it, to which maybe AOC will say just keep your money,

      either Matt Walsh will keep the money for himself ala Trump (not judging, great way to make a buck), or in good faith he actually delivers it to AOC’s ‘abuela’ (whilst also making a big production of it).

      If all parties involved act in good faith the money will get to who needs it. Or not. Who knows…

      But your conservative folks and corporations, thats funding this audit, chemp… makes it sound like a good old conservative crusade (like saving AOC’s ‘abuela’), China and Russia I’m sure will want in on this “audit” movement. Thus undermine America.

      If I can sabotage every contest, be it sports or the Oscars, whatever, by simply crowd funding audits, I totally would. I think it was the 1st American Idol in which a Filipina-American contestant stayed on as finalist, and Simon was all like I dunno what you’re still doing here, but it turns out a bunch of people from the Philippines are calling a bunch of times just to keep her afloat.

      Kinda whats going on here.

      Which leads us to crypto, gian‘s post above was very fruitful, Defi and DAO. or De-centralized finance and De-centralized Autonomous Organization. Turns out DAO is the answer.

      I don’t share your incredulity of our voting system, because I know how it works here chemp. County by county, precinct by precinct, and these people know each other many old people but also young volunteers (they’ve done election cycles together). I live in a purple city and district, thus the votes tend to come close all the time, and why

      precinct by precinct and particularly the GOP folks keep a close keen eye on the count, because lately its swung Dems, but now back to GOP.

      That’s why I know there’s no need to crowd fund an audit giving Russia and China chance to partake, because the GOP in particular given the demographics change to more Dems, are very guarded with their votes. This is why Trump and his peeps couldn’t find anything and he “full-bore”d the might of the Executive branch to this endeavor. And nada.

      But if you allowed each precinct to make its own DAO, then you’ll get their take on how the election went per precinct, whether theres anomalies etc. Then have those DAOs connect with other precinct DAO, and every election you’ll have votes and the folks overseeing the votes and their take on what transpired in real time.

      Blockchain voting is what makes DAOs DAO, if a precinct all give 100% thumb up, then real time, you have an audit. The public can also partake directly or indirectly.

      Since the purpose of these DAOs is actually to use crypto currency (actually tokens), either for profit or non-profit, people the public could actually partake by funding their own precinct, either providing them snacks, or camera equipment for public viewing to keep tabs on the election. Whatever each DAO requests, and it won’t matter if China or Russia gives money because these DAOs will be 50-50 from both parties , even independents.

      So can’t go wrong;

      But China and Russia giving money to these “audits”, if you think about it no election or contest will ever be safe; can you imagine a world where people don’t win? Everyone loses. That’s the trajectory of your propositions, chemp. Thus dangerous and un-American.

      So, your 1-4 prognostications , only number 3 will happen, chemp, not because of anything you’ve outlined, but due to the results of the 2020 Census.

      • LCPL_X says:

        2022, I suspect the red arrow will just play pickaboo.

      • I googled ‘fauci e-mails foi truth seeker’ and got this Washington Post article, among others. The Post was one of the truth seekers. It’s enlightening.

        https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/interactive/2021/tony-fauci-emails/

        • LCPL_X says:

          Great read, Joe. And seems to jive with everything I’m reading. Assuming good faith all; but that’s whats at issue here, your good faith is anothers bad faith, and vice versa.

          So I’m talking to chemp like I usually talk or debate (usually over beers) with buddies who are Trumpists. And if you notice chemps already stating that he’s right (and he’s usually right).

          Fine. I’ve used this rhetoric before, but as polemic, here when chemp says it, he’s actually saying he’s been right all along when it comes to conspiracy theories; reminds me of an article i read awhile back of why women tend to get pregnant given the pain going in labor and all,

          supposedly there s something chemical or hormones or both that get injected to make her forget the actual trauma she undergoes so she gets pregnant again and again.

          chemp offered up the evidence of aliens as proof of his track record; i dunno about you guys but I have never read any of chemp’s comments here talking about aliens, that’s my expertise and i’ve injected it many times in debates.

          So I’d like chempo to actually list (no propositions) list out conspiracy theories he’s shared with us that s come true.

          Because like women getting pregnant, a conspiracy theory prone individual will just jump from one conspiracy to the next, with no problem.

          Now alot of these conspiracy theories will have no resolutions, but you get easy ones like the Maricopa plane that chemp told Micha about with all sorts of ominous ramifications, that s easily dissproved. As you see above.

          Doesn’t mean the next event of a similar nature chemp sees, he’ll go thru the process I’ve outlined for him looking into other saner possibilities , he’ll once again assume the gov’t is watching conservatives.

          As arguments go I find it really interesting because I get to see other peoples mental processes, and I enjoy that sort of thing, Joe. I’m just saying chemp will read that WaPo article with a different eye because he’s already made a bad faith assumption on Fauci.

          That’s hard to erase;

          So you go after chemp’s “track record” on conspiracy theories he’s proposed here that’s panned out, otherwise he can’t claim that he’s usually correct. That proposition requires proof.

          Essentially we’re trying to convince chempo to stop getting pregnant. Or at least be choosier in who or what you engage your brain with. But my other point is sex is just fun no matter with who. Whatever gets the brain juices pumping and heart pumping via exchange of idea s is I’m sure also good for one’s health. But I’m no psychologist or medical doctor. That’s just a hunch, Joe.

          Otherwise we’d all be rolling our own boogers into balls for fun. So all in good faith fun. Joe. Thanks for the long leash.

          • chemrock says:

            “supposedly there s something chemical or hormones or both that get injected to make her forget the actual trauma she undergoes so she gets pregnant again and again.

            Planned parenthood takes the financial pain away Lance.
            And the abortionist clinics hand out poor quality condoms so the girls will keep coming back. It’s great for business.

            Lance, as a military man, give me your view on an imaginary scenario.
            A top secret military raid was planned. A very dangerous op, known only to a handful of planners at cabinet level. The president OK the plan. One of the guys in the planning group told his wife of the op 2 days before it was to be carried out. Loose lips sink ships. Did that guy leak state secrets? Is that a serious matter?

            • LCPL_X says:

              chemp,

              If its really specific people get “read in”, which means the folks who know and are responsible for that knowledge are known; that’s a counter intel issue. If its of a general variety, like whole battalions coming and going harder to control info, but loose lips sink ships tend to handled by lesser counter intel S-2 JAG or within unit. Both are serious matters. Even more serious if people got hurt as a result.

              If its within the Executive branch then remember as commander in chief, the President also has the power to render ops unclassified, declassification is the Presidents perogative. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Kelley_(CIA_officer) and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valerie_Plame and I think some Navy SEALs have been dinged on this as well.

              As to Planned Parenthood, I’ve always said BLM should revolve around Planned Parenthood which tend to concentrate around black neighborhoods, and areas. You look at blacks dying in the ER, and hospitals in general, why not focus also on the doctors and nurses “killing” blacks, i’m sure the statistics for that number is far larger. I don’t wanna pay for a girl’s condom, buy it yourself is my motto.

          • Yes, conspiracy theories and guessing are not much different. The issues are if we believe them or not, and if we do, will we try to sell them to others, and if we try to sell them, will we shoot the people who disagree with our guesses. Or harass their kids on the way to school if they are wearing masks.

            Keep up the fine work.

  24. NHerrera says:

    Speaking of reinstatement, Trump got himself a conditional reinstatement to use Facebook on January 2023 per NYT.

  25. madlanglupa says:

    Offtopic: reporter Morong, famous for extraordinary patience dealing with otherwise convoluted presidential speeches, was recently fired from Palace beat.

    https://www.lionheartv.net/2021/05/gma-news-removes-joseph-morong-from-palace-beat-after-controversial-fact-check-report/

  26. chemrock says:

    The cultural reshaping of US has impact beyond its shores. That’s why I’m concerned. I see the attempt to raise BLM flag in Singapore as peddling of soft propaganda. I actually raised my concern with our foreign ministry.

    US media and big tech are now so woke and so marxist they bow at the feet of President Xi. I have been mentioning a lot of things you guys think its conspiracy theory. So you google. What do you expect to find? Of course you won’t find anything relating to the counter narrative. Take the Fauci emails. All MSM are freaking out and doing damage control. Joe produced a wapo article link. What do you expect Wapo to tell you?

    Thieves audit thieves, what report do you expect? Let me give another example. Next to Fauci, Dr Daszak ranks high in culpability. Yet Daszak represented US in the WHO investigation of Wuhan lab. The Chinese got a great bill of health. Then the decent health journal The Lancet formed a team to investigate and lo and behold, Daszak was the leader of the team. Again Pres Xi got a great bill of health. Thieves audit thieves, what report do you expect? They think the universe is full of stupid people.

    I want to zip up on US politics. Only brought this up because I want to make a point on PH. You think you don’t have problems with Marxist big tech in Philippines? Let me give you and example.

    Because Google sucks up to China, their search algorithms are skewed to favour China when it comes to certain sensitive issues. For example, when you google “DOES THE SOUTH CHINA SEA BELONG TO CHINA” or something in that nature, you get this :

    I suggest you click and read the short description. Those wordings came straight off some CCP materials.

    When you make a search, Google generates a short description. That’s called a Google Snippet. The google snippet above you actually cannot see anymore. After a Reddit Group discussion which raised the issue and made some noises, Google has taken it down. The link I placed above is actually my screenshot from internet archives.

    If you do the same google search now, you will see a bit more politically appropriate google snippet.

    https://www.google.com/search?q=does+the+south+china+sea+belong+to+china%3F&oq=does+the+south+china+sea+belong+to+china&aqs=chrome.0.69i59j69i57.11260j0j15&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

    So friends, Google and other big tech are marxists who skew information in favour of the left, both Democrats and President Xi. Who knows where else they are screwing Philippines.

    If one were Liberal, one won’t see bad faith in Google. Karl won’t be able to search creepy Joe. In my illustration, Google showed bad faith to Filipinos, until someone complained.

    This ain’t conspiracy. It’s reality.

    • Micha says:

      Your paranoia seems getting worst chemp. Marxist media and big tech? What the heck is getting through your brain?

      When I make the same search query, this is the one that I get on top of the list :

      http://www.coronadonewsca.com/opinion/the-south-china-sea-does-not-belong-to-china/article_4079878c-7f49-11e5-b013-e7ac642ef53e.html

      “The same reason why Indian ocean doesn’t belong to India , Persian gulf doesn’t belong to Iran (Persia), Gulf of Mexico doesn’t belong to Mexico.

      It is south of China and it was dominated by Chinese commerce so it is called South China sea.”

      Search result algo is location based and it doesn’t mean Google is sucking up to Marxist propaganda. It is up to the searcher discretion to determine credibility and/or reliability of sites displayed.

      Fear induced irrationality leads to loads of conspiracy theories. Maybe you need to see a shrink.

        • LCPL_X says:

          We can test this right now,

          for those in the Philippines copy/paste chemp’s

          “DOES THE SOUTH CHINA SEA BELONG TO CHINA”

          and share the first two links. I’m curious now how this Google search algorithm works.

          • South China Sea – Wikipediahttps://en.wikipedia.org › wiki › South_China_Sea
            This name is a result of early European interest in the sea as a route from Europe and South Asia to the trading opportunities of China. In the sixteenth century …

            Territorial disputes in the South China Sea – Wikipediahttps://en.wikipedia.org › wiki › Territorial_disputes_in…
            The South China Sea disputes involve both island and maritime claims by several sovereign states within the region, namely Brunei, the People’s Republic of …
            ‎Disputes in the South… · ‎History · ‎Security summits · ‎Non-claimant views

            How did the South China Sea dispute begin and where is it …https://scroll.in › World › International Relations
            29-Jul-2020 — As tensions in the region mount, a look at China’s claims and the West’s response.

            How China is bending the rules in the South China Seahttps://www.lowyinstitute.org › the-interpreter › how-c…
            17-Feb-2021 — The issue, however, is not that China flagrantly violates international law – it is that it does so while simultaneously creating a veneer of legal …

            South China Sea | Lowy Institutehttps://www.lowyinstitute.org › issues › south-china-sea
            What the Lowy Institute does. The Lowy Institute has a strong record of analysis, commentary and research on issues pertaining to the South China Sea, …

            The south china sea disputes: Who owns the islands and the …https://www.tandfonline.com › doi › pdf
            by C Park · 1978 · Cited by 93 — Introduction. The South China Sea has nearly 200 uninhabited islands that are hardly visible on … territory does not mean the relinquishing of a legitimate right. … east of a specified line—as the Paracels and the Spratlies were—belonged to.

            South China Sea | sea, Pacific Ocean | Britannicahttps://www.britannica.com › … › Oceans & Seas
            South China Sea, arm of the western Pacific Ocean that borders the Southeast Asian mainland. It is bounded on the northeast by the Taiwan Strait (by which it is …

            Political Map of the South China Sea – Nations Online Projecthttps://www.nationsonline.org › oneworld › South-Chin…
            The map shows the South China Sea and neighboring countries with international borders, major cities, and major port cities.

            South China Sea – International Waters Governancehttp://www.internationalwatersgovernance.com › south-…
            The Contracting Parties of the Treaty of Amity and Cooperation in Southeast Asia, as amended, which border the South China Sea are: Brunei, Cambodia, …

          • VPN off returns:

            South China Sea – Wikipediahttps://en.wikipedia.org › wiki › South_China_Sea
            This name is a result of early European interest in the sea as a route from Europe and South Asia to the trading opportunities of China. In the sixteenth century …

            Territorial disputes in the South China Sea – Wikipediahttps://en.wikipedia.org › wiki › Territorial_disputes_in…
            The South China Sea disputes involve both island and maritime claims by several sovereign states within the region, namely Brunei, the People’s Republic of …
            ‎Disputes in the South… · ‎History · ‎Security summits · ‎Non-claimant views

            How China is bending the rules in the South China Seahttps://www.lowyinstitute.org › the-interpreter › how-c…
            17 Feb 2021 — The issue, however, is not that China flagrantly violates international law – it is that it does so while simultaneously creating a veneer of legal …

            The south china sea disputes: Who owns the islands and the …https://www.tandfonline.com › doi › pdf
            by C Park · 1978 · Cited by 93 — Introduction. The South China Sea has nearly 200 uninhabited islands that are hardly visible on … territory does not mean the relinquishing of a legitimate right. … east of a specified line—as the Paracels and the Spratlies were—belonged to.

            Historical Support for China’s South China Sea Territorial Stancehttps://www.maritime-executive.com › editorials › histo…
            10 Aug 2019 — The chinese communist party does not own international waters hundreds of miles from china’s coast. But hey, nice try at making believe this is an …

            Territorial Disputes in the South China Sea | Global Conflict …https://microsites-live-backend.cfr.org › territorial-dispu…
            U.S. Warns China Against Aggression Toward Philippines. U.S. State Department Spokesperson Ned Price said an attack on the Philippines would “ trigger” U.S. …

            China’s Claims in the South China Sea – The Short Answer …https://www.wsj.com › articles
            China says it has sovereignty over virtually all South China Sea islands and their adjacent waters. It hasn’t defined those waters, but it issued a map that has what …

            South China Sea – International Waters Governancehttp://www.internationalwatersgovernance.com › south-…
            The Contracting Parties of the Treaty of Amity and Cooperation in Southeast Asia, as amended, which border the South China Sea are: Brunei, Cambodia, …

            South China Sea Territorial Disputes (continued) | Peace …https://www.peacepalacelibrary.nl › south-china-sea-terr…
            The delimitation of the maritime boundaries in the South China Sea should be … The islands belonging to the second category have no right to generate an … If so , they would be entitled to a 12 nautical mile (nm) territorial sea, but not to an …

        • chemrock says:

          Apparently Lance and Micha do not understand what is google snippet. Will someone else explain/

          • LCPL_X says:

            here.

            Now what exactly is the point to all this? Micha’s right its different for everyone, whether its location or search history, i dunno, but I’ve done this on my laptop and desktop now and its the same.

            Joe whos in the Philippines , nothing seems nefarious as you’ve indicated. So what gives?!!!

            Is this just more none sense?

          • I googled it. It’s a way to customize google search to get subjects you are most interested in to float to the top. Google already uses your geographic location and search history is a basis for filtering content unless you block them. Snippets allow further fine-tuning. So one can build an echo chamber, I suppose, or let Google build one for you.

            • LCPL_X says:

              I’m thinking also that chempo having clicked on that reddit Group thread, inadvertently ended up to said Google snippet , Joe.

              Like a positive loop engine. Like a self made conspiracy in real time, Joe.

              • Screw-ups I think are rarely results of major conspiracies, I tend to believe more in the unintended consequences theory of Manolo Quezon, where events take on their own momentum after a while. Yeah we tend to feel powerless individually so it is tempting to blame one group or the other that is seen as absolutely powerful, the Philippine version of that is blaming oligarchs, USA, red-tagging or even absurdly seeing the reds as agents of the yellows because Ninoy had the likes of Satur Ocampo for coffee early 1970s – but in the end even the very powerful usually cannot see all ends and outcomes.

                Things ought to be taken with a grain of salt always, but not too much of it either as that can lead to hypertension.

              • NHerrera says:

                Things ought to be taken with a grain of salt always, but not too much of it either as that can lead to hypertension.

                Indeed! This Senior Citizen appreciates that. 🙂

            • NHerrera says:

              Google — the answering machine. Reminds me how to frame your question to Dad, Mom, the Boss, or the Girl Friend to get the answer you like. Great learning from this blog topic and comments, among others.

              The use of your historical profile by Google seems a constraining item, I note. Solution — get another computer/ phone with a new identity and not often used so Google does not have a firm historical profile, along with a creatively phrased query?

      • NHerrera says:

        Search result algo is location based.

        As in a lot of things, the explanation is so obvious, clear once stated. Thanks, Micha.

        • NHerrera says:

          In China-friendly countries, a serious researcher on local and international-politics-related query may then ask relatives abroad to help google the query, or in JoeAm’s case use a VPN based in another country.

    • I blame China, not Google. And freedoms and capitalist competition generate aberrations, always have, always will. One ought not mistake the wart for the face.

        • Micha says:

          Most, if not all, media outlets (social or traditional) are owned by billionaire capitalists. For chempo to be calling them Marxist sympathizers is beyond ridiculous.

            • LCPL_X says:

              “The cultural reshaping of US has impact beyond its shores. That’s why I’m concerned. I see the attempt to raise BLM flag in Singapore as peddling of soft propaganda. I actually raised my concern with our foreign ministry.”

              I think we’ve figured out that Google searches for everyone will be different.

              But the fact that Google which is a business will stir people here and there to make a buck is no surprise. I remember in the early 2000s when search queries would take me to some pretty interesting blogs/pages. no more.

              Now it just takes me to newspapers and business sites. Which requires you to do more searches.

              Oh well, but I have never changed my mind one way or the other because of what comes up first in a search result, I dunno about you guys.

              But this reshaping of US is true. That’s the constant of the US, it is constantly reshaping itself. chempo likes to blame Marxists.

              Well as a Bernie supporter (AOC too) remember May 1 is celebrated around the world, but the reason for its celebration was this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Workers%27_Day “1 May was chosen to be International Workers’ Day to commemorate the 1886 Haymarket riot in Chicago.”

              This whole labor movement isn’t the Russians or the Chinese, this is Luddites, and Haymarket riot.

              This Marxist stuff is also legit American from the 1800s.

              But to call big tech Marxists, who thru their algorithms and gig economy bs, the very opposite of Marxism actually, and calling them Marxists just don’t make sense. What the GOP and the conservatives here don’t understand is this labor movement is very American. Unions too. sure it didn’t start here, England as far back as the Luddites.

              If American culture is bleeding into the world, that’s nothing new, we’ve been bleeding our values and dramas to the world for awhile now. All the stuff chempo consumes is straight from televangelist crap, Alex Jones, intelligent design, snowflake, anti- this and that… guess what that’s from America too.

              You’re simply playing out the drama here, and transporting it over there; so that BLM flag there and your anti-Marxist rhetoric are all from here.

              What you don’t have though is the on-the-ground stuff, and I’m telling you people regular people have moved on, that stuff you’re spouting is background noise these days. Especially now with all the openings.

              Now i don’t know economically if it will last that’s up to chemp and Micha to discuss,

              the feel here is there’s less QAnon Alex Jones stuff, less people I notice watch the news too, I loved it when Trump was in office because it seemed everyone knew everything about what was going on. there was a lot more arguing about the Wall or this or that.

              Most here are back to tuning out. Which I would argue is a more dangerous America. At least for the rest of the world. That’s when wars tend to happen.

              • LCPL_X says:

                What most people do talk about these days is Bitcoin, both side of aisle, and i guess it was COVID19 lockdowns that got people interested.

                So in a way, America as an economic engine is back. I don’t remember a time when people were so interested in money. I guess the 80s, but I was just a kid then. So

                all i have to go by are Oliver Stone movies.

                You walk to a Mcdonald’s or In n Out these days and you over hear teenagers talking about crypto and Bitcoin , stuff that still goes over my head. its all the buzz.

                So the guy to talk to here is gian.

          • chemrock says:

            “For chempo to be calling them Marxist sympathizers is beyond ridiculous.”

            Marxism is a social construct. Of class divides and they way it governs.
            Capitalism is an economic construct. Of freedom of enterprise.

            CCP are Marxists. But they are practicing capitalism.

            Dermocrats are socialist, but they are moving into the far left, as good as Marxists now with the way they are trying to restructure the society.

            Biden’s critical race theory is the epitome of the socialists’ yellow brick road to Marxism. People who came out of Mao’s Cultural Revolution, many are still alive today, see it as clear as day the 5 parallel paths the US is taking to the Cultural Revolution of China. Make no mistake, the US is undergoing a cultural revolution, the same one as China did which left 20 million dead.

            If saying Zuckerberg, Dorsey and all those CEO who made their fortunes under a capitalist US are sympathisers of the Dems / Marxists, is a ridiculous view, I don’t know what is not ridiculous.

            • Micha says:

              “Marxism is a social construct.”

              Marxism is an economic theory on control of the means of production. By asserting that it is merely a social construct in opposite juxtaposition of the capitalist one indicate that there’s no good faith discussion coming from your part and I would say that holds true for all the other sub-topics and bullshit you are spouting on in here.

              Zuckerberg and Rupert Murdoch are Marxist sympathizers? Come on, man, don’t get drained into the woo-woo world.

              Being blinded by your and your parents’ fear and personal experience of the Maoist revolution which Deng and Xi turned on its head is not a good way to start a discussion.

              • chemrock says:

                One can write a book just on trying to explain Marxism and Communism.

                By saying Marxism as a social construct I was simplifying the organising of society under the theories espoused by Marx.
                The organising of the economy under Marxism is communism which is based upon the ideas of common ownership and the absence of social classes, money and the state, sometimes loosely simplfied as a central planned economy.
                Of course the world has changed. CCP retains the Communists in its party name, but free enterprise is allowed. The lines are’nt so clear now.
                But the US is moving in the opposite direction, slipping into Marxism.

                I don’t think I’ll get a ‘F; from my economics teacher for this.

                Zuckerberg, Dorsey and other CEOs who have played politics (others – Jeff Zucker, Coca Cola etc). As I have likened Dems to Marxists, they are Marxist sympathisers. It’s a red world no woo-woo..

                One does’nt get blinded by one’s life experience, one learns from personal experiences.

                I made reference to what I see as parallels between the cultural restructuring going on in the US to Mao’s cultural revolution. There are people alive today who lived through this tumultous time. The can see the parallels. Deng and Xi are your problems,they are red herrings that you always bring into an argument.

                These are my views and my perceptions.

              • Micha says:

                “But the US is moving in the opposite direction, slipping into Marxism.”

                and this:

                “I made reference to what I see as parallels between the cultural restructuring going on in the US to Mao’s cultural revolution.”

                Say this to Amazon workers in Alabama who tried to organize a union but was promptly busted by Bezos’ goons. Or to Uber drivers in California who merely wanted to be recognized as proper employees eligible for standard wages and not as private contractors.

                What cultural restructuring are you talking about? Either you’re seeing ghost or you’ve been eating mercury-laced cereals for breakfast.

                Either way, you’d be better off taking your own advice to stop commenting on US politics because you definitely have severe blurry optics on it right now.

              • I’m guessing his ‘cultural restructuring’ refers to the BLM movement vs the anti-immigrant, racist tinged white-supremacist movement promoted by Bannon/Trump/Miller. Well, the tint of one’s glasses shapes that argument which essentially calls for an end to racially discriminatory policing policies, or ‘anti fascism’. Thus, Marxist I suppose. ‘Restructuring’ is an emotionally loaded description attached to what the US does as a matter of process: gather facts, put them into the democratic framework, abide by the spirit and law of the Constitution. The US is dynamic, not static, dealing with wars, economics, and social issues. It is persistently restructuring and refusing to fit into labels convenient for advocates of this or that.

              • Micha says:

                @JoeAm

                What chempo is doing here is standard Fox News fare of exaggerating or overblowing stuff up. If he can go unchallenged in branding CNN or Washington Post as Marxist sympathizers then why, President Biden’s administration is definitely leftist communist.

                And that’s before we mention Sen. Sanders’ policy proposals which, by European standards of Germany and France, are at best middle of the road left.

                So yes, “restructuring” is an emotionally loaded term and when you prefix it with the word “cultural” we’re transposed into this alarming phase of letting a thousand flowers bloom in the US of A.

              • Love those fields of orange poppies on the California hills in springtime. Definitely Marxist。

              • Which does remind me that we are all shaped by our youth, mine a part of the roaring 50s when consumerism blossomed, a post-WWII restructuring, then a short stint in Viet Nam, an anti-commie adjustment, followed by anti-war protests, flower children, and FBI parked across the street listening to me and my leftist wife making love. That was followed by a stint of conservative banking and global travel. Sorry. Easy labels don’t fit, and the US under Biden will be close to normal by my reckoning. And Trump will eventually get consigned to his rightful place.

              • Micha says:

                Rich personal illustration on the dynamism of America and its people. Thank you for sharing.

    • LCPL_X says:

      “Next to Fauci, Dr Daszak ranks high in culpability.”

      I’ve yet to read the link, but before we get to Dr. Daszak, I ask again chemp and this is the 3rd time now, what exactly is Dr. Fauci guilty of???!!!

      • chemrock says:

        If you do not know the answer it means you cut yourself off opposing narratives, never to ponder why are people saying that. Those sound bites have been going on for 15 months. Fauci emails shut up the mainstream. They have to deal with it now. Blinders are coming off, reluctantly.

        • LCPL_X says:

          I just wanted you to make your propositions instead of innuendos, chemp.

          “1. Fauci helped fund Wuhan lab for research banned by Obama in 2014.”

          To start off, let’s clarify when did all this funding happening. Before or after 2014? What are the years in question, chemp.

          And how’s this funding related to hydroxychloroquine? Or is this a separate unrelated matter all together.

          “4. Promoted the narrative Wuhan is non-military whereas in reality Chinese researches are always dual — means military and non-military. Wuhan lab in fact is under the direct supervision of military. Fauci covered President Xi’s ass.”

          Isn’t this already known by the US in general, chemp. I mean China didn’t exactly make this secret, ex. the 16 character policy civilian military same-same, etc.

          As a matter of fact, nothing gets done in China w/out PLA’s knowledge, so how did Fauci cover Xi’s ass, exactly?

          “5. — So Fauci continued illegal research in collaboration with a country that is a potential threat to the US. Why do biowarfare research with a potential enemy? Why? The answer is obviously monetary gains somewhere.”

          There’s a lot to unpack with question 5, but the last question of 5 is related to my questions with your 1.

          Again what are the dates in question, chemp? before or after 2014, but specifically what are the years in question?

          chemp, your questions 6 and 7 , is too technical for me to answer right now, but I think we can refer to the linked provided to us by Ireneo above as to the difference between man vs. nature made virus.

          If there’s argument here as to how this is done, offer your evidence to counter. But as far as science go, not delving too much into it, Ireneo’s link seem enough to counter your 6 and 7.

          “If you still think these emails are BS, you are terribly behind the curve.”

          I already think your “facts” are BS, chemp. But answers to my simply questions above should start us off quite splendidly. Thanks.

          My answers to the veracity of your speculations will be to your entire comment below.

          • LCPL_X says:

            “2. He lied under oath in Congress that he never fund gain of function research of Wuhan lab. Technically yes, his NIH did not directly fund Wuhan. He hid it by funding EchoHealth of Dr Daszak who then funded Wuhan.”

            Just to clarify, this is the only “criminal” matter in all the emails, correct?

            • chemrock says:

              1. Before 2014 the gain of function research was American project (with a lot of Chinese scientists). Fauci funded this research. Funding continued after the transfer of project to Wuhan right to the present.
              Hydroxychloroquine is a separate matter. Fauci pursues a vac policy and plays down on therapeutics such as hydro and ivermectine which have 200 over studies that proved their efficacy against covid with high success rates of 70%. Hydro is banned in US hospitals for covid I think. Banned in hospitals, but outlying private practioners use them.

              4. Exactly. Everybody knows the PLA is involved. Fauci has constantly made public utterances and in Senate hearing that its civilian research in China, that he trust the Chinese scientists etc. Conservatives are pissed off that Biden admin is working with the PLA. Fauci’s defence of Wuhan as a civili project saves Pres Xi’s ass from Conservatives.

              5. Before 2014 and after 2014 to the present. Basically, the specific research of gain of function on corona virus is funded by Fauci.

              6-7. We are not talking about the sciences of the great animal leap. You can go and chat till the cows come home. 10 scientists will say possible, another 10 will say no.

              We are talking of emails where there were discussion of progress of work. It point to success in the lab engineering. As a matter of fact, earlier interviews Dr Daszak had already said they know how it can be done, how easily they can do it. When China shared the gnome in the early days of the outbreak, an Indian scientist (I forgot the name) studied it and he said it’s lab made and explained something about splicing some HIV genes into the corona. And it appears the Indian scientist is in fact correct.

              Many scientists looked into the gnome. Email show some people wrote to Fauci telling him they are very suspicious, explaining the details that it showed lab engineering. Fauci said thanks, will get back. He shut the guy out.

              By now, many scientists who have studied said its lab made. The smoking gun is the furin cleveage.

              I’m not here to prove anything to you. Just answering your questions.

              • LCPL_X says:

                “10 scientists will say possible, another 10 will say no.”

                “By now, many scientists who have studied said its lab made.”

                Hahahaha… I call BS on both counts , chemp.

                Who are these scientists? Name 10. or 1 or 2. The use of the word many is suspect at best. I would even go as far as lying.

                It is rhetorical device to , appeal to authority (in this case made up).

              • chemrock says:

                Gosh Lance
                Biden admin and Facebook etc are all now receptive to the man-made lab-leak theory and you are still in denial.

                I said man-made. I made a statement. It’s for you to accept or not. If you don’t it’s fine. If for argument sake you wanna challenge, it’s for you to provide the counter proof.

              • LCPL_X says:

                I’m challenging your lie that there’s consensus that many scientists now think it is man-made from Fauci, chemp.

                Where’s this consensus?

            • chemrock says:

              2. He lied under oath
              You obviously did not pay attention to senate enquiries.
              Answers to the question — please see the long response below.

              • LCPL_X says:

                You don’t have to prove anything, chemp. But answers help show how wrong you are.

                Three words you keep repeating “banned”, “illegal” and “lied”. Are center here.

                Quick Google and says this ban is lifted, so where’s the illegal part of this come in, time frame of the ban? I agree with Joe if there’s utility to said research why ban?

                Your slight of hand using the words banned and illegal here, inform your definition of lied. Which too is wrong.

                “2. He lied under oath in Congress that he never fund gain of function research of Wuhan lab. Technically yes, his NIH did not directly fund Wuhan. He hid it by funding EchoHealth of Dr Daszak who then funded Wuhan.”

                You thus have to prove that Fauci did hide taxpayer money thru money laundering means to get to Wuhan.

                1. banned (not banned now)

                2. illegal (not illegal now)

                3. lied (again what did he lie about? that he money laundered taxpayer money via Ecohealth to go to Wuhan, where’s the evidence? usually when you accuse someone of lying it is because you’re in possession of the truth, so where is it?)

                See how your “facts” aren’t really facts, chemp??? Your playing loose with words is all. Follow the money right, you just have a hunch you’re touting as facts. is all.

                to be cont’d.

            • I actually saw Fauci’s testimony when he was being challenged on funding bio-research in China. I took it to mean that govt did not budget for or undertake the research directly, but funded the scientist as a program. For me, the issues are 1) is it appropriate for the US to understand ‘gain of function’ processes as they occur naturally or man made, 2) can this be done secretly by government, and 3) should it be politicized? My answers are yes, yes, no. The US/China scientific effort has been intertwined in many ways and is currently being unwound. Universities and think tanks are wound together. Frankly, I don’t see the basis for hair-pulling or going banshee over it, unless Republicans are witch-hunting on it to ‘get even’ with Fauci for this step or that. I’m having a hard time getting stirred up on it.

              • NHerrera says:

                Re good faith.

              • LCPL_X says:

                Joe, this is foreign affairs/diplomacy 101.

                I’m not familiar with labs and scientists, but for the military this all paid back in spades, when Hillary screwed up in Egypt and opened it up to Salafists.

                Thankfully, the age old exchange programs of inviting foreign military officers to the US for school, training , etc. thru relationship made via both countries officers, and the good faith

                developed therein, Egypt was saved. Can you imagine if Egypt fell too?

                So these programs and people exchanges pay off.

              • LCPL_X says:

                granted what the Egyptians did was democracy. for all intents and purposes.

                But America just can’t afford another Iran situation, so in place went the Egyptian military. i’d argue the Egyptians are better off for it. Not so good for religious hardliners though.

  27. chemrock says:

    1. Fauci helped fund Wuhan lab for research banned by Obama in 2014.
    2. He lied under oath in Congress that he never fund gain of function research of Wuhan lab. Technically yes, his NIH did not directly fund Wuhan. He hid it by funding EchoHealth of Dr Daszak who then funded Wuhan.
    3. He down played the use of therapeutic hydroxychloroquine, prevented its use in US when this was saving lives in Australia Mexico and now India.
    4. Promoted the narrative Wuhan is non-military whereas in reality Chinese researches are always dual — means military and non-military. Wuhan lab in fact is under the direct supervision of military. Fauci covered President Xi’s ass.
    5. Ecohealth is Daszak’s charity NGO (dunno who owns this). Echohealth had received $120m plus from govt (mostly from NIH and $39m from Pentagon. Why does Pentagon fund a charity? Under Obama admin they were doing gains of function research in a lab in North Carolina. It was biowarfare research. Scientists pushed for its closure because they were doing dangerous research and in breach of US laws. The US lab was closed down by Obama in 2014. Actually the research was transferred to Wuhan. The transfer involved Fauci/Daszak/Obama/Bill Gates and Chinese scientists who had worked for years in US. So Fauci continued illegal research in collaboration with a country that is a potential threat to the US. Why do biowarfare research with a potential enemy? Why? The answer is obviously monetary gains somewhere.
    6. When suspicion was floated about virus leak from Wuhan lab, Trump blocked a $3.7m fund that was about to be released. Of course, Micha’s non-Marxist big tech cried foul and roasted Trump and his conspiracy theory. According to big tech who are all not marxists but scientists, the virus jumped from bats to pangolins and to the filthy Chinese who slurped up bat soup in the wild animal market in Wuhan. The self-deprecating CCP propaganda cartoon of Chinese and bad soup went viral to cover President Xi’s ass. But non-Marxist big tech never asked anyone caught bats and pangolins with the virus to this day?
    7. Fauci continued to lie about the lab-leak theory when he already knew the real story.
    Fauci continued to push the natural animal-human lleap of the virus and dismissed lab engineering.

    All these above are fact. They are all culled from emails. If you search for answers from non-Marxist big tech and your favourite media, you won’t find answers. If you still think these emails are BS, you are terribly behind the curve.

    ICAN requested for info from NIH who pussy-footed. ICAN then sued under FOI. NIH then agreed to a gradual release. The first 3,000 came out recently which Buzzfeed had made it public. I won’t tell you where to find it, do your own research and see whether Google will lead you there.

    All the above that I indicated are verifiable by the emails and related supporting documents. You have the right to remain with your minds closed and believe what CNN told you the Portland riots were mainly peaceful BLM protests. If you believe wapo’s “Anthony Fauci’s pandemic emails: ‘All is well despite some crazy people in this world” you are within your rights.

    If you want a deep dive into the 3,000 emails, you need to read with an understanding of the timeline as it relates to events going on in the world. In other words, you need context. An isolated reading of each email will tell you very little. That’s wapo’s reading of the emails.

    Some of the emails were redacted. Under FOI when texts are redacted, there is a marker. The marker code explains why the portion was redacted. Some of the emails contained markers that indicate criminal investigation. Why does’nt wapo tell you this?

    —————————

    Now this part is speculation. Not pure speculation, but me trying to connect the dots.

    1. The HIV pandemic was handled by Fauci under somewhat similar cloud of obfuscation of misinformation and questionable drugs. Dr Kary Mulis was brought in. He soon realised that all the so-called science and data were wrong. He hated Fauci’s running on blind but pretending to know all. Mulis suspected Fauci’s promotion of a drug (I think it’s sanatex, I’m not sure) was wrong, which led to 100,000 deaths.

    2. Dr Mulis is a nobel prize awardee. He was an eccentric and bombastic biochemist who discovered the PCR (polymerase chain reaction) technique. The PCR is used to test whether you have SARS-cov2 or not. Mulis has said Fauci does not know what he is doing. He has been calling for Fauci’s blood. The inventor has told the world PCR does not show the presence of virus, but nobody listened to him. PCR allows biologists to see particles in molecules of body cells. It can be tuned low or high, the higher the more particles can be seen. When PCR is set high, everybody is covid positive. But you have not been infected, so they say aha you are asymtomatic. When you are not showing signs, you are asymptomatic. According to Mulis, you have no symptoms because you don’t have the virus in your body!

    If the inventor of PCR who should know what the test is all about, says Fauci is wrong, the question is what the hell is going on. Has the world been told a big lie about the pandemic? Mulis saw the same thing being done with covid pandemic just as during the HIV pandemic. But why do we not hear anything from him? Go ask the non-Marxist big tech, leftist media and big pharma, the traffic controller of information.

    3. Remember, I said my pursuit of conspiracies always follow the money? Well Fauci has a host of patents for HIV. I have not seen any patents for covid….Yet. Fauci’s NIH staffers received millions of royalties for the research and clinical trials they do at NIH. Damn big conflict of issues here that he is doing damage control.

    4. Now I asked a pertinent question. Why should Fauzi/Obama/Gates shift the gain of function research to Wuha? Why allow a potential enemy to have that technology? If and when the research is a success, why let a potential enemy to have a bioweapon that can kill you?

    The answer is very simple. It’s the only answer. Money. How does this work? Military research always have a defensive stance. They do research on deadly bios so that they can develop the vaccines ready for a future when the enemy develops the virus. Since US has banned the gain of function research on coronavirus, do it in Wuhan. When the Chinese have perfected the new virus, Fauci can take the new gnome and develop the vaccine. That’s where the money is.

    5. There is a lot of conspiracy theory about Bill Gates — euthanesia, population culling, stuff like that. I’m not into all this. There are questions in my mind, but the tale is too tall for me. But the Fauci emails are perplexing. It showed Fauci spent a heck of a lot of time with Gates. Now why is a private citizen so deeply involved in a field for which he has no expertise? Why has he become a spokesman of sorts for the emerging new world of new medical science?

    6. Now my question to these emails is this. The courts can easily cook up an excuse to deny ICAN access to the emails. I’m pretty sure if courts can throw Trumps election cases out in 10 minutes, they can throw an FOI case out in 1 minute. So why did they allow it? Why allow Pandora’s box to be opened? Ask yourself why?

    7. The only reason why Pandora’s box was opened has to be the simple reason that someone is now holding a trump card, pardon the pun. This is the way I see it. The context of timing is crucial.

    The intel team during Trump’s admin had been certain the virus was engineered in Wuhan. But nobody can talk about lab-leaks because Mr Zuckerberg and bearded Dorsey will have none of that. I went to FB jail twice when I shared lab-leak articles. Biden closed down that intel team and passed the lab-leak investigation to a new committee. Whatever the reason, we don’t know. Probably better for control of info.

    Shortly after this, Biden admin was singing a different tune. a 180 degree turn to a serious consideration that lab-leak was a high probability. Suddenly the FB is allowing posts about the lab-leak theory.

    The change of view hinges on the defection of a Chinese who worked in Wuhan. He has revealed a lot of info as regards lab-made virus. This is fact from a WH source. According to him, the lab-leak occurred in August 2019.

    (The date made me jump. It’s most likely pure coincidence. Dr Kary Mulis passed away silently in Aug 2019, aged 74, supposedly from pneumonia. I’m not suggesting anything. But surely in the context of what’s going on, some alarm bells ought to be ringing.)

    Now I’m thinking, with the Deep State going to bed with Biden admin, that Chinese defector would not be able to survive a week in US. What the WH leaker said made absolute sense. He said the Chinese cooperated and worked with an FBI team. For whatever reasons, this FBI team kept everything away from director Wray until they had everything wrapped up. Obviously, they never trusted Wray to be non-partisan. Whether this FBI team are Trumpers, conservatives or professional non-partisan public servants – what’s their motivation, we don’t know.

    It is obvious someone is holding a trump card. That’s the only reason WH, big tech, the courts are now recognising the lab-leak theory.

    The story is also coming out because certain conservative sites have been aggressively working and pushing for this investigation of Wuhan lab and Fauci for 15 months.

    Biden has no option but to let Fauci take the rap.

    Trump is right once again. Wuhan lab engineered SARS-cov2. But this is very difficult for leftist non-marxist media to swallow. So ABC’s Jon Karl put it nicely this way:

    “Some Things May Be True Even If Donald Trump Said Them”

    • i7sharp says:

      “Some Things May Be True Even If Donald Trump Said Them”
      Nice!!!

      Chemrock, I doubt if my response will see the light of day at JoeAmerica’s site, but one of the reasons I visit the site is to see, now and then, postings such as yours.

      The last posting from me that Joe had allowed to show up here is probably the one dated August 2020. I think it is the only posting that has mentioned Scott Atlas on this site.
      Having mentioned Atlas again, let me try to share this (as if Joe would allow it):
      https://imprimis.hillsdale.edu/science-politics-covid-will-truth-prevail/

      • chemrock says:

        Thanks for the link. It’s a good read. I agree generally with the article except for masks. I have no data, just my gut instinct tells me masks work. Those surgical masks work . Other fanciful cloth type masks I’m doubtful.

        In Singapore, people are generally more disciplined. In fact we wanted to be more stringent on 3 occasions which our government failed us, skewing toward economic considerations over what they felt was lower risks. First we wanted earlier border closure of Chinese traffic. Next we wanted masks but the govt said was not necessary. Third was the late closure of Indian traffic due to their new variant breakout. Other than these 3 misgivings, we did pretty well. In fact I never felt like there is a pandemic. Our schools were opened throughout except for a few weeks initially. But currently we had a resurgence due to the Indian variant.

        Personally I think lockdown works. But I think this is a local event. If there is a surge in a particular locality, you lock down for 3 or 4 weeks. By which time, the circuit is broken and contained. Singapore is a small place and we did these short term lock downs pretty well. Now we are back to 4 weeks lock down due to the Indian variant. 2 more weeks to do, then we will lift the lockdown again depending on the data. We have no total lockdown. Just cannot congregate or eat out. Food business remains open for takeouts.

        Contrarian view is a burden. If ISIS comes, you pay tax, get the hell out of town, convert, or get your head chopped off. You have freedom of choice.

        I find an anomaly in TSOH. I think quite a handful here have conservative views when discussing Philippines politics. Switch to US, they march to Liberal narratives.

        • LCPL_X says:

          Fauci wrote: “Masks are really for infected people to prevent them from spreading infection to people who are not infected rather than protecting uninfected people from acquiring infection.

          “The typical mask you buy in the drug store is not really effective in keeping out virus, which is small enough to pass through material. It might, however, provide some slight benefit in keep out gross droplets if someone coughs or sneezes on you.”

          _________________________________

          I didn’t Fauci to understand how small viruses were. Thus I usually double masked in grocery stores. Infected folks sneezed, I always assumed i’d be inhaling COVID, but with two masks on, just a little bit than w/out.

          I’ve told sonny when he was looking for N95 masks early last year , how if w/out proper seal N95 isn’t really useful.

          • LCPL_X says:

            I didn’t *need Fauci to understand

          • chemrock says:

            Fauci is “mask-on”, ‘mask-off”.
            His quotation depends on which side of the bed woke up.

            To each his own. For me, I believe masks help tons. On this issue, I’m opposed to the conservatives mask-free stance.

          • sonny says:

            On N-95 masks – I have discarded the search for these masks; I have breathing issues with those close to the specs of Home Depot brands for painters and the dusts they work with (asbestos protection).

            On non-N95 masks, I use basic chemistry on the molecules involved, viz principle of Brownian movement from the size of scent molecules to viral sizes and general polarity in the gases around us. Viruses are mega-large molecules (proteins, peptides) with some polarity, namely attraction/repulsion with gases & moistures in their surroundings; consider also the pH that make Covid19 viruses viable. Bottomline: I favor masks; I favor double-masks when in crowded environs. They are a prudent choice.

      • NHerrera says:

        i7Sharp, thanks for sharing Scott Atlas article; chempo, thanks too for the comments as it relates to your experience in Singapore.

        Scott Atlas problem which compelled him to write that rather belabored apologia — containing a reasonable argument, nevertheless, came in being seen as hired by Trump’s Administration as a tool to counter the more popular Fauci — not having the chance to explain effectively the way he did in that article. Poor fellow, he is also one who seems better read than heard.

        Side note, I do not believe that the article is one that Joe censors. In fact, framed as he had done in that article, I agree with him mostly.

        By the way, the same article was posted on 7 March 2021, titled “Scott Atlas: The Last Word” in The Stanford Review, Stanford’s Independent Newspaper, with the introductory note, Atlas delivered the following remarks in a virtual lecture hosted by the College Republicans.

        https://stanfordreview.org/scott-atlas-the-last-word/

    • Micha says:

      @chempo

      The lab leak theory at this time is inconclusive. President Biden gave intel agencies 90 days from end of May to make official report. I say we wait for that instead of making all sorts of Alex Jones-type conspiracy theories which are laden with inconsistencies and contradictions.

      CNN, Bloomberg, NYT, Washington Post, Financial Times, WSJ etc. have all made reports and coverage on this Fauci/Wuhan topic. You should be ashamed calling the Wall Street Journal a Marxist propaganda machine.

      • LCPL_X says:

        https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/20793561-leopold-nih-foia-anthony-fauci-emails

        Here’s the emails, Micha. I’m word searching for pizza orders to see if Fauci is also a pedophile. 😉

        • Micha says:

          Hahaha…

        • NHerrera says:

          Dr. LCPL_X, thanks for the link. You are not kidding about being a PhD graduate of Google University. 🙂

          • LCPL_X says:

            LOL!

            Basically we’re peer reviewing chempo’s thesis. Based on his performance so far, I’ll not confer to him any flattering title, NH.

            • A note I’ll drop here pertaining to the “Arizona Audit”. https://www.latimes.com/politics/story/2021-06-06/conservative-radio-host-pivots-arizona-election-audit-stance

              “An increasingly vocal share of Arizona Republicans see the recount as an act of self-sabotage, creating an albatross for statewide candidates in the run-up to a pivotal election year.”

              • chemrock says:

                Joe
                Not trying to rebut you, but like I say, depends on where you pick up the story.
                Rasmussen is the fairest pre-eminent poll today. Rasmussen has 95% confidence level, sampling error +/- 3%.
                Latest report Feb 2021 :

                – 43% said Biden was not voted in fairly.
                For Republican voters, this was 61%

                – 42% said mail-in led to unprecedented voter fraud.
                For Republican voters this was 70%
                For Democrat voters this was 11%
                For independents this was 46%
                For those who said Biden not voted in fairly, this was 76%

                Overall I would say the issue of voter fraud is helluva significant.

              • Only among the uninformed, obtuse, and lunatic. Trump had his days in court, some 30 or more of them, and persuaded none of the courts. That’s more telling than what people think in the mad mad world of social media advocacy over sense. I worry about the echo chamber you’ve decided to construct for yourself that ignores any evidence to the contrary and accepts theory as fact.

              • Reading on Rasmussen, it is oft-criticized for wording questions to elicit answers favoring the conservative agenda. Trump loves the company. It’s voting projections have been all over the place in terms of accuracy. But my issue is that people’s perceptions are only perceptions. I’d want to see the survey questionnaire and methodology.

              • chemrock says:

                Not just the question Joe. The methodology and the demographics of those polled. I think they are all available for checking.

                95% confidence level is 3 sigma I think . Error significance is pretty good for me.

                How does the latimes poll compare? Better than 95% and +/- 3%? Is it online poll – if it is, you should ignore it?

                The latime link is a poll consisting of 1 respondent.
                It’s the opinion of 1 airtime talk host, Mike Broomhead.

                He said :
                “An increasingly vocal share of Arizona Republicans see the recount as an act of self-sabotage…..” How many I wonder?

                LA Times said :
                “Broomhead is not shy about his opinions — that’s the whole point of being a talk radio host”

                Liberals went on overdrive to kill the Arizona audit. Including criminal acts. Including getting UN personalities involved. All these acts the mainstream media shut out.

                I was an auditor before. This much I know from personal experience. As I auditor I have a nose for client wrong doing. Two tell tale signs — (1) when the client is extremely helpful and goes overboard to be friendly; (2) when client is extremely nasty and obstructive and intimidating.

                The only objection to an audit is if there is something to hide.

              • There are the facts and the frame. When one chooses certain facts to fill out the frame, then it looks like it is whole, but it’s missing facts. That’s conspiracy theories. Because the frame lacks integrity, no one agrees on it. That’s us. In Arizona, it’s now the Republicans wanting to shut off the recount because they are going to get killed in local elections. What are they hiding?

                Here’s my belief. The election was fair, not fraudulent. Trump lost big, he really did. Everything else is people self-dealing.

              • Your frame has to include the 59 court challenges that Trump lost. You can’t cherry pick the polls you like and the news people you like and disregard other things.

                https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/zoetillman/trump-supreme-court-election-loss

              • LCPL_X says:

                Feb 2021?!!! Which means the actual poll was done Jan 2021, right.

                That’s when all the attempts of Trump trying to stop the steal happened, chemp. Product of the news cycle.

                What’s Rasmussen say now? don’t introduce old ass polls to inform on news going on today. Not cool.

              • chemrock says:

                Let’s wait for the outcome of AZ audit.

                As to having his day in court, I’m wondering for the greatest democracy in the world, how can a person have his day in court when his evidence was never called and not a single of his witness was heard?

                Now here’s how a court case should have proceeded. In the Antrim county Georgia, 3 family members involved in the vote count were outed by observers — the Freeman family. Father, Mother and Daughter. I won’t go into the details of what they did, just briefly they were seen to double triple count ballots and sneaking ballot boxes in after all workers had gone home. Caught on video. Now of them were investigated. Nobody interest in the video. Where is the evidence. Well now some private citizen has taken up a case against the daughter.

                Now the court has subpeonaed her for deposition. I’m not saying she is guilty, there was fraud. I’m saying the court is taking the right action. There was none of this sort of action by the courts in all those cases which have been thrown out.

              • That great democracy received 59 of his cases, different courts, different states, and none found merit. Judges in the US are law-based and ethical. Yet you believe the conspiracies. I’m gobsmacked. How does one get to that place? I can’t.

              • chemrock says:

                Joe, you see the election as fair – that’s fine.

                Just for argument here, can you or perhaps NH our in house statistician, can explain just 2 things here. I’m really puzzled. I’m not saying there was cheating in these 2 cases, I just want an answer.

                1. Vote tally in real time is progressive. It is always adding up for all candidates, right? Someone vote for you, your tally goes up. Next guy voted for another candidate, his tally goes up, and yours remain unchanged. There can never ever be a reduction in tallies, right? So what can explain in the many occasions when reductions were observed?

                2. Votes have to be whole numbers, right? one voter to one vote count. What can explain those tallies where votes were in decimals?

              • That’s technical beyond by knowledge. You are grasping for reasons to stick with an erroneous belief. I can’t help you.

              • chemrock says:

                That’s the whole argument is’nt it. There are issues to be answered. Can’t answer, it’s conspiracy theory.

                Every scientific discover comes from questions. I think this is called Socratic questioning.

              • LCPL_X says:

                Hey, I’ve been saying I’m Socrates here, chemp. There can’t be two in one blog!!! LOL!

            • chemrock says:

              Haha
              Very good Lance. Take your time with the 3,000 emails.
              Meanwhile, I add another comment on the emails. The thread is getting complex now so if you don’t mind I drop it in a fresh thread.

  28. LCPL_X says:

    the Mullis vs. Fauci drama is interesting, chemp. youtube of Mullis strikes me as a guy that won’t do too well in a bureaucratic setting, where as Fauci seems the type. Maybe that’s where the drama started, like a Steve Jobs and Woz situation.

    PCR is interesting. I know a buddy who for work had to get a nasal swab test, early last year. Signed up with all his info , got an appt. and went, but line was so long, he left. never took the test, but days later got a letter that said he was positive for COVID. LOL!

    I’m a fan of the Bill Gates theory, and yes its been known even w/out the emails that Fauci and Gates were close. Gates also wants to make human sterilization a thing to save people from poverty. Thus i’m a fan of this theory. But I won’t go further into this.

    Great work of speculation. like that Ireneo graph, you’ve managed to draw a unicorn, with the dots you were given. Your conjecture that Fauci is motivated by money is fair. Remember i work with the assumption that politicians are dirrrty (maybe some Mr. Smith goes to Washington types, but when faced with so much public money, people usually succumb, that’s my assumption, so your money

    motivation is in line with how I view the world, chemp).

    But what you seem to be failing to see here, chemp, is that you have this conjecture, which doesn’t prove anything, but you’re selling it like its been proven. You have a working theory, one that’s fruited again and again in past with all sorts of people (that people do bad things for money). big wow.

    So I agree with your follow the money motto, but your stated conjecture and actually having followed that money are two different events, and you’re mistaking the one for the other, chemp. You’ve effectively made your conclusion before following the actual money. and finding it.

    As to this trump card that someone’s holding, a scientist from Wuhan, is this Dr. Li-Meng Yan? I doubt her accusation against Fauci would be about money, so this is the most important person in your speculation, since money is easily hidden, but science not.

    So I’ll keep researching her accusations against Fauci specifically, chemp. And the science of man vs. nature made virus. But IMHO your speculation doesn’t hold water since it is dependent upon actually finding all of Fauci’s hidden wealth.

    end.

    • chemrock says:

      Dr. Li-Meng Yan is no mystery. Neither is it news. It’s old story.

      • LCPL_X says:

        “7. The only reason why Pandora’s box was opened has to be the simple reason that someone is now holding a trump card, pardon the pun. This is the way I see it. The context of timing is crucial.”

        OK. Just to clarify then, this “someone” is unk, could or could not exist. Just another hunch.

        • chemrock says:

          Did I not say the “this is the way I see it”?

          I left out names because it’s not 100%. The messenger we know, the source we do not know…. yet.

          Adam Housley is the one who said his White House source told him that. Houseley is not your armchair journalist the Don Lemon type. Check his wikipedia profile. He has covered extensively all over the world, including years as war correspondent. Hardly the type to crank something out for fame. Besides he understands perfectly well no mainstream media will cover his story.

          If you’re wondering is he a Rep, I suspect he is. He had a stint with Fox but he was 1 of 2 high level journalists at Fox who quit in 2018 “owing to his frustration that hard-news reporting was being de-emphasized in favor of commentary regarding President Donald Trump.”

          • LCPL_X says:

            Thanks, chemp. I too am sharing the way I see it.

            https://redstate.com/jenvanlaar/2021/06/04/exclusive-high-ranking-chinese-defector-has-direct-knowledge-of-several-chinese-special-weapons-programs-n391238

            Adam Housley isn’t insinuating what you are insinuating though, chemp. And this is how I’m seeing it.

            Housley ‘s reporting of a defector from Chinese lab/bioweapons program, doesn’t necessarily tie in to Fauci though. Make that connection when there’s connection to be made is my point here.

            No drawing of unicorns just yet.

            Either way its interesting. So thanks for this.

            But remember your Sun Tzu: https://web.mit.edu/~dcltdw/AOW/13.html (my hunch, and this is a hunch, I’m not assuming truth here, just lots of movies and books by Le Carré , is its a dead spy, to sow disinformation… or no information at all)

            To test that theory, you’d have to figure out how he defected. DIA is military, they don’t have access to passports. Try smuggling an important scientist out of China, needs funding. DIA is JV , not varsity.

            China’s borders are closed; not like ours.

            Of course, this Chinese scientist could have come here as student, teacher or simply as tourist. But why make deals with JV who really can’t grant you stuff.

            So already there’s a flaw there. Focus on the bureaucracy and the hierarchy of agencies, like going to DMV to get a passport. Wrong office sorry.

            Red flags for me.

            That China may have allowed COVID to spread while giving early vaccines to VIPs is perfectly plausible, how this all ties in to Fauci is key.

            But reading that Redstate article, I think their narrative is dubious; Housley who is saying less to me seem more plausible. Redstate ignores how the gov’t works.

            • chemrock says:

              Perhaps you have a better idea for the big flip by admin and big teck and media from lab-leak conspiracy to lab-leak possibility?

              I mean it’s a Trump lie and we know how everybody hates anything Trump right? Anything Trump goes out the window immediately. So it has to be a big story there for them to do a Jen Psaki ‘circle back’.

  29. i7sharp says:

    Question:
    Is it now “1984” to some degree at “The Society of Honor”?

    I came upon this article, below, a few minutes ago,
    after I had googled for something that relates the present to “1984.”
    http://magilas.me/1984-2021

    Excerpt:
    x-
    Clandestine printing houses and rotary presses have been set: they are all mechanical so they cannot be monitored. The market for manual typewriters has exploded – we buy them second-hand because the sellers are not required to identify the buyers – at least for the time being. The public phone booths are all very clean and very well maintained – we do it ourselves. It’s our preferred method of communication: from booth to booth, changing regularly, and at preset times.
    In the last election, Democrats won the presidency, Congress, and the governorship of all states by 96.56 percent. The Republicans got 2.13 percent. Turnout was 137.6 percent.

    Rare echoes of fraud were heard here and there, but the individuals who made these accusations were immediately classified as conspirators, and the FBI raided their homes.
    The FBI issued a report saying there was no voter fraud.
    -x

    Factual? Insightful?

  30. chemrock says:

    @ Lance

    Has anyone completed going through the emails and picked up anything?
    As I mentioned, you need context to understand the emails and connect dots or raise questions. If you cannot contextualise, all the emails are innocent. Here’s one illustration.

    31 Jan 2020
    K.G. Anderson to Fauci : He and his fellow said SARS-cov2 has unusual features and looked engineered, inconsistent with natural evolutionary theory.

    2 Feb 2020
    Fauci to KGA : “Thanks Kristian. Talk soon on the call”.

    Absolutely nothing here right? Even though KGA took pains to explain his opinion. Now one would expect Fauci, as a scientist, to jump with excitement and make immediately querries. Instead he brushed it off with 7 words.

    Now to put into context.

    17 March 2020
    KGA, together et al (Andrew Rambaut, W. Ian Lipkin, Edward C. Holmes & Robert F. Garry) published a report titled : The proximal origin of SARS-CoV-2
    This was posted in http://www.nature.com

    The report concluded that “…we do not believe that any type of laboratory-based scenario is plausible.”

    The email 2 Feb 2020 Fauci indicated he will call back. Did they meet up, or just a telcon. What did they talk about? Because in about 1-1/2 month after the email, KGA sure as hell made a 180 degree turn.

    Certainly there were other virologists who had opinions one way or the other, but they publish a report. KGA had to publish his. To help strengthen the natural evolution narrative.

    This is report Fauci can rely on to support their denial of gain of function research. This is their shield.

    Aug 2020
    NIH established Centers for Research in Emerging Infectious Diseases (CREID). In the same month CREID dished out 11 grants totalling $17m.

    KGA got $1.88 million.
    Dr Daszak got $1.54 million

    6 Jun 2021
    GKA tweeted reply to someone who was apparently enquiring about some of his older tweets. GKA replied “….old tweets auto-deletes”

    That’s a big lie. There is no such tool to set an auto-delete for up to a particular date. All his tweets prior to 27 Mar 2021 had been deleted. He was caught flat out. He was deleting his tweets for the whole of the week.

    Presently
    GKA has deleted his twitter account.

    Journal of Medical Virology
    How was GKA’s natural evolution paper received?
    There were counter arguments.
    Murat Seyran et al published in the Journal of Medical Virology (vs GKA’s nature.com – a question of integrity).
    The concluded “…,These unique features of SARS-CoV-2 raise several questions concerning the proximal origin of the virus that require further discussion.”
    In other words, the natural evolution narrative is challenged.

    Conflict of interest of medical reports
    The integrity of the scientific literature from improper influence by vested interests is a big concern. There is bad faith aplenty. Scientists willing to distort scientific research to serve vested interests receive millions of dollars for their services.
    Compare the The Journal of Medical Virology publication to GKA’s publication. The Journal carried the writers’ ‘Declaration of No Conflict of Interest’. GKA did not.

    We see again and again the use of ‘thiefes audit thieves’ technique

    • LCPL_X says:

      There’s a new Chinese defector with something new to add to this theory that COVID virus was not only engineered but allowed to spread. That’s not circling back, that’s adding another dot. But like I said, until the fruits of that debrief comes to light and verified, we’ll have to take with a grain of salt.

      I’m actually enjoying the read, of these emails especially the linked articles, chemp. But you are right so far so good. I don’t have the background info that you’ve just shared re GKA, but what I have is a discerning mind. So I’m looking for references of pizzas, especially anchovies.

      This engineering of virus is also very interesting. Let’s say we use CRISPR to invent a new kind of human, but the way we do it is to make it look not new, but just run of the mill human. What certain genes or behaviour can we tweak to make it less obvious that we’ve just invented a new kind of human.

      That’s a paradox no?

      Like Mary Shelley’s Frankenstein. What’s human now?

      Say you chempo were hired to audit Hunter Bidens’ business, and here’s me LCPL_X always had a gut feeling and 6 th sense that Hunder Biden is dirrrty, with a capital D and 3 r’s , and once youve audited , you tell the world, Hey this dude’s clean, he’s clean like a new born’s tush. I’m gonna shout theives auditing thieves, chempo ‘s sold out. Delaware sucks! Also Singapore, fuck the merlion! How ‘d a lion end up in Singapore, lies!

      Let’s assume for a moment, that LCPL_X has no access to GoFundMe, to get China and Russia’s money to affect another “private” audit of Hunter Biden.

      What is LCPL_X supposed to do here? I need a smoking gun, no? something that proves chempo is also a thief as well as Biden. Where’s the proof? You’re an auditor, where ‘s the proof to convince me, that Hunter Biden is clean, or that Fauci is dirrrty.

      Like that Redstate article, it just doesn’t make sense, but to the person reading it with no knowledge of how gov’t works that there s bureaucracy, certain agencies handles this and that by law, you’d read it as gospel. In a way I’m auditing your work here, but I’m just a Google PhD. thus can only spot word plays and bad deduction and weak propositions.

      As to you and Joe’s argument above, that’s exactly like the Intelligent Design vs. Darwinism debate, its about false equivalencies, like when you said 10 scientist pos; 10 scientists no and that theres consensus in science. No. preponderance of truth is what we work with. One side has more proof, the courts function is also to throw out frivolous or lawsuits without the threshhold of evidence expected.

      I seriously doubt AZ audit will fruit anything, but if it fruits a better election system, then sure. thats a plus. I just think China and Russia are having fun funding it, chemp. and for such a China hater, your stance should be is there Chinese money going into the AZ audit. We’ll never know, why? cuz its PRIVATE!!!

      Always be wary of when your interests align with the same folks you’ve maligned. Remember your Sartre comment? same-same here.

      • chemrock says:

        “Always be wary of when your interests align with the same folks”

        Your final line just aligned with my “Thieves audit thieves”
        – Daszak funds Wuhan, Daszak in WHO investigates Wuhan, Daszak leads Lansate team investigates Wuhan
        – GK Anderson writes report supports natural evolution — GK Anderson receives #1.88 grant.all those sate audits, lots of example.

        In all those state audits, lots of examples of thieves audit thieves. You just choose to ignore.

        • LCPL_X says:

          Who is this Daszak fella, and why is he everywhere? Is he some kind of evil Forrest Gump?

          GKA I’ll have to read up on, but Daszak you’re making up to be as some sort of omnipresent figure , chemp. Automatically, that’s a red flag.

          I’m not ignoring , I’m prodding you to make your case. So far its not really convincing. I’m not convinced.

          Let me read up on both these folks. But the fact your affording Daszak super power abilities of being everywhere is already suspect for me. chemp. sorry.

          This GKA study is interesting.

          • chemrock says:

            Lance
            Some personalities I intentionally did no introduction. This tells me the reader’s exposure to what type of media. You are right Daszak is everywhere. Your enquiry at least tells me you read with interest. Most will read my first para and say aaaah conspiracy nonsense.

            Daszak is president of Ecohealth Alliance, a global environmental health nonprofit organization dedicated to protecting wildlife and public health from the emergence of disease. It receives grants from the US government, certainly from Fauci’s NIAID.

            In the scheme of things in the Wuhan story, Ecohealth is an added layer that obfuscates the flow of funds from the US govt to ultimate recipients.

            • LCPL_X says:

              “…the flow of funds from the US govt to ultimate recipients.”

              As an anti-globalist , why I’m a fan of Trump and Bernie, I’ve been complaining about American taxpayer money being spread around to undeserving groups and individuals around the world. I’ve sit on these bricks of cash myself.

              So I’d be very interested in your case against this Daszak fella, chemp.

              • chemrock says:

                I know nothing of Echohealth. They seem to have been around for a long time. But I’m turning into a cynic, what with so much incidents of corporations with bad faith. They could be doing really great work, I just have no idea.
                But I have since grown great distrust on what I read on corporate websites. Of course there is no problem with companies we know — coca cola, bank of america etc. NGOs I distrust completely. Especially those in cultural, social, human rights kind of stuff. Those with “Democratic” something in their name I distrust the most. I have grown to 1000% distrust George Sorros. Our Mary Gonzalex once chided me, and she said she was very impressed with Sorros’ charity. You know why 1000%? Because Sorros has 1000 NGOs all over the world, infiltrating into all sorts of civil movements, waiting for the chance to do the workd he does best – destabilise the place. He tried to same in Singapore a few years back. Our regulatory authorities were on the ball and nipped it in the bud.

              • chemrock says:

                Sorry, forgot to mention.
                There is a video I saw a few years back which has resurfaced. In a public interview he let on that they already know how to re-engineer coronavirus. He discussed the technique and laughingly said its actually quite simple.
                I’ll drop the video here if I can find it again.

              • LCPL_X says:

                That’s no secret, chemp. Humans have engineered viruses for sometime now.

                Viruses aren’t even alive, like sonny said just protein molecules really. Their complexity really is in how they spread.

                I gotta feeling you’ll find other videos of other virologists probably saying the same thing.

                Here’s a 1999 article on this (I’m Googling when scientists actually started engineering them)

                https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/is-it-possible-to-enginee/

                Humans can also make other humans via CRISPR. engineered humans.

              • It’s the strangest debate I’ve ever seen. One side argues “there are no facts to show it was manmade” and the other side argues “there are no facts to show it is natural”, the President says “pull everything together and give me the facts as we know them”, and both sides criticize the President. 😂😂🤣😂😂 Anyone pretending to have the answer is just pushing agenda. I’m with Biden on it and laugh, just laugh, at all the pompous pretenders sitting at home knowing what went on in Wuhan.

              • LCPL_X says:

                I don’t think we’ll ever know, one way or the other, because viruses tend to mutate, that’s why they’ve been around since before us.

                For all we know viruses, made us, to suit their needs. Not vice versa.

                If there’s no way to know either way, renders all arguments of origin of COVID19 moot , doesn’t it.

            • LCPL_X says:

              I don’t care about Soros really , chemp, there’s more powerful conservatives that do the same thing with more money and power.

              What I’m worried about are Wall Street and investment banks, because they have the power to screw things up, and they have.

              Then the companies polluting the environment. Soros is at the bottom in my list of corporations and NGOs to worry about.

              The US gov’t when its driven by globalists, I worry about; that’s why i was pro Trump and pro Bernie, they’re nationalists regardless of ideologies or lack thereof when it came to spending money abroad;

              so far Biden’s followed suit (so far). I hope money stays in the US for now to straighten out things over here, what psychologists call some me time. This saving the world is taxing. pun intended.

    • chemrock says:

      Lance I reprint your comment in this thread :

      ——————–

      THE COMMENTS FROM LANCE
      MY RESPONSE IN BOLD ITALICS :
      ———————

      “There were counter arguments.
      Murat Seyran et al published in the Journal of Medical Virology (vs GKA’s nature.com – a question of integrity).
      The concluded “…,These unique features of SARS-CoV-2 raise several questions concerning the proximal origin of the virus that require further discussion.”
      In other words, the natural evolution narrative is challenged.”

      Where are these counter arguments, and what exactly is their proof that COVID virus is man made?

      The GKA paper said virus was from natural evolution. The counter argument never said the virus was man-made. It challenged the natural evolution assumptions as suggested in the GKA papers.. In points to assumptions lab-made theory is a possibility.
      No need for the details. None of us can understand the chemical biology dissection.

      Having read the nature article I still don’t see what the fuss was, what is GKA accused of doing here, really?

      It points to complicity of the part of GKA. Changing their positions within 1-1/2 months from lab-made theory to natural evolutionary theory for the $1.88m dangled by Fauci. In February Fauci was under pressure from Senator Tom Cotton and Trump assistant Peter Navarro who were at that point raising the gain of function research and lab leak theory. GKA paper on natural evolution served as something Fauci can wave as he supported Wuhan lab scientists doing only non-bio research. Emails show Fauci in fact circulated that paper to Daszak, Shi and other scientists involved and said in capital print the paper is IMPORTANT. (meaning guys, use this to cover your ass). Daszak emailed to thank Fauci for standing up for the natural evolution theory.

      “More scientific data could swing the balance of evidence to favor one hypothesis over another. Obtaining related viral sequences from animal sources would be the most definitive way of revealing viral origins. For example, a future observation of an intermediate or fully formed polybasic cleavage site in a SARS-CoV-2-like virus from animals would lend even further support to the natural-selection hypotheses. It would also be helpful to obtain more genetic and functional data about SARS-CoV-2, including animal studies. The identification of a potential intermediate host of SARS-CoV-2, as well as sequencing of the virus from very early cases, would similarly be highly informative. Irrespective of the exact mechanisms by which SARS-CoV-2 originated via natural selection, the ongoing surveillance of pneumonia in humans and other animals is clearly of utmost importance.”

      “The genomic features described here may explain in part the infectiousness and transmissibility of SARS-CoV-2 in humans. Although the evidence shows that SARS-CoV-2 is not a purposefully manipulated virus, it is currently impossible to prove or disprove the other theories of its origin described here. However, since we observed all notable SARS-CoV-2 features, including the optimized RBD and polybasic cleavage site, in related coronaviruses in nature, we do not believe that any type of laboratory-based scenario is plausible.”

      GKA actually leaves open the possibility that COVID virus was man made, chemp. “currently impossible to prove or disprove”; which means that if this Chinese scientist can prove it, then good right?

      Some said natural, some said lab made.
      That’s the whole idea why Trump had the Defence Intel people doing an investigation in 2018. A couple of months ago, Biden stopped the Defence Intel investigation and passed the work to an Investigation committee. Why? I don’t know. But just look at the timeframe.

      Daszak’s position in your conspiracy theory (meaning there’s conspiracy afoot) seems to be in orchestrating all this cover up. Though his place in this conspiracy theory would be akin to Bill Gates place, so is he then top or under Bill Gates in this hierarchy of conspiracy.

      Understanding his part and place in all this is key, so far this is murky, unless you can clarify. But GKA’s article seems pretty consistent with how scientific papers are, “currently impossible” leaves open for further evidence to be considered in the future.

      Fastforward to now, what are these further evidence, and how are they compelling enough to prove “purposefully manipulated virus”; so this is where you link to articles or papers to “counter arguments”, chemp. GKA is no boogeyman to me. Sorry.

      • LCPL_X says:

        “10 scientists will say possible, another 10 will say no.”

        “By now, many scientists who have studied said its lab made.”

        Some said natural, some said lab made.

        “GKA paper on natural evolution served as something Fauci can wave as he supported Wuhan lab scientists doing only non-bio research.”

        ————————-

        “The counter argument never said the virus was man-made. It challenged the natural evolution assumptions as suggested in the GKA papers.. In points to assumptions lab-made theory is a possibility.”

        chemp,

        There’s some serious flaw in your thinking here.

        By now, 1 year after that GKA paper , there should now be more articles or evidence that GKA was wrong.

        But you are saying that’s not the case. Ergo, unless there’s evidence to the contrary, we’ll have to go with GKA was correct.

        Correct?

        That’s why theories need evidence, otherwise we’d all go thru this world like i7sharp. that’s not a good thing.

        • chemrock says:

          Lance
          Supercharging the virus has actually been known all along. A common technique is what they called a double CCG. And when someone does this, it shows up in the gnome. In this particular Wuhan case, they did the CCG in a manner that was quite difficult to detect. GKA saw this and ward Fauci in the 31 Jan 2020 email.

          Lab-made is by now passe. Evidence established that. Fauci emails show that he knew it all along so the fact the Fauci lied is passe. There are 2 issues left to figure out :.

          (1) Was the lab leak accidental (which I think it was) or some nefarious plot to unleash on the world. In this regards, US has banned biowarfare research, whilst the Chinese bio research is dual. Fauci’s NIAID is supposedly non-military, whilst Wuhan is not.

          (2) Now gain of function research is a very sensitive topic in the scientific world. Research on re-engineering of virus is done for the purpose of gaining more knowledge on the virus to study its pathogenuous capabilities and to improve vaccine production. But there is a thin red line when this re-engineering crosses into very dangerous grounds. Thus you find Fuaci explaining all the time about risk and benefit analysis that they took. This is the grey area that legislators like Rand Paul are trying to fix. Basically, the question is who makes the analysis and determines its ok to take the risks.

          So the situation here is, did Fauci make all those risk taking decisions in good faith? Why lie about funding Wuhan and gain of function research? Remember, Fauci handled the AIDs pandemic and he ended up holding several HIV patents.

          You can believe all you want on the retraction by GKA in his paper. but mainstream media, MSM, not conspiracy sites, already accepted the lab made theory> Examples –

          Wall Street Journal
          “Although the double CGG is suppressed naturally, the opposite is true in laboratory work. The insertive sequence of choice is the double CGG. That’s because it is readily available and convenient, and scientists have a great deal of experience inserting it. An additional advantage of the double CGG compared to the other 35 choices : It creaqtes a useful beacon that permits the scientists to track the insertion in the laboratory.

          Now the damning fact, It was this exact sequence that appears in Cov-2. Proponents of zoonotic origin must explain why the novel coronavirus, when it mutated or recombined, happened to pick its least favorite combination, the double CGG. Why did it replicate the choice the lab’s gain of function researchers would have made?”
          ———-

          Wall Street Journal
          “When the lab’s Shi Zhengli and colleagues published a paper in Februaru 2020 with the virus’ partial genome, they omitted any mention of the sequence that supercharges the virus or the double rare double CGG section. Yet the fingerprint is easily identified in the data that accompanied the paper. Was it omitted in the hope that nobody would notice this evidence of gain of function origin?
          ———-

          It’s in the Asian Wall Street Journal. Back in early 2020 Trump admin deliberated confronting the Chinese on the culpability of Wuhan lab. Some steps were initiated but nipped by State officialdom…..aka Deep State. The previous admin already knew about it, but they called Trump’s ‘China virus’ hate speech.

          • Two thought strike me, random associations I suppose. (1) A Filipino man was beaten in a NY subway in New York today and told to go home. Hate is rising. Trump/Miller fueled it. (2) I viewed a clip of a woman testifying before this committee or that, saying that vaccinated people are magnetized with keys sticking to their foreheads and arms. “It’s all over the internet.” Also, they are somehow connected to 5G cell towers. About 20 people behind her looked on, serious, some nodding.

            Speculations serve no purpose other than as guideposts for further study. If they become the basis for decisions, or judgments of people that are shared with others as if true, we descend into a deep state of lunacy.

            • chemrock says:

              Of course I agree there’s a lot of nonsense from the internet. What’s preventing people from taking baths in cow manure or drink cow urine to protect oneself from covid. Some will follow, some won’t.

              But I’m curious. As what Lance asked…where are the 10 scientists that said lab leak. So curiously, may I ask where did Trump promote sucker punching Asians? Where are the white supremacists? All the violence are coming from one race and people are just too afraid to say it as what it is. And unlike Trump, there are responsible people who said it out loud on TV to go violent in the streets but folks are ok with that.

              Nobody wants to see the descend to chaos and lunacy. Both the Left and the Right have roles in this development. It does not help if both sides refuse to see the contribution of the other side to the mayhem.

              • There were three ‘racially’ tinged policy steps undertaken by Trump, with early guidance from white supremacist Stephen Bannon and full-term guidance from anti-immigration policy adviser Stephen Miller: (1) ban immigration from Muslim countries, (2) build a wall to keep the Mexicans out, and (3) attack the Wuhan virus and trade policies from China. The BLM movement became number 4, postured as anti-police (anti-white-police). So the Trump base picked up on these themes, amplified them on social media, and made them a ‘conspiracy’ cause. Hate attacks rose from that. And the capitol attack.

                I don’t know what you mean about the left being okay with violence. BLM protests?

              • chemrock says:

                My thoughts on these :
                (1) Muslim country ban was on the basis they have difficulty vetting the good guys from the bad ones. Fort Hood was’nt exactly encouraging. I appreciate liberals want openess. I would be happy to see liberals ask questions that UNWatch once asked in UN — Yeman, where are your Jews. Algeria where are your Jews…..
                Right or wrong I think Trump saw the problems in EU and UK. He had good faith in this policy. Not fair, yes.

                (2) Mexico — yes he mentioned Mexcan rapists and drug dealers. That was bad, I agree. But of course he was referring to the many illegals who had criminal records. Of course not all, but many. So again, I think there was good faith. I heard the coyotes Mexican human smugglers charge $10k for each crossing. Good business.

                (3) As info, once blocked out by mainstream media and big tec, now comes to light, his attack on Wuhan lab seems decisive. Attack on trade policies – nothing wrong. All leaders fight in the interest of their country.

                My warning to Trump though, is this. His call for reparation from China for the covid damage is dangerous for the US. Because the dust has not settled. It could be the US outsourced the gain of function research to Wuhan lab. If that was in fact the case, what then is the legal ramifications for US and China?

                “BLM postured as anti-police”.!!
                OK I get it, as CNN said, Portland and the 2020 summer of protests were peaceful demonstrations. Its the Right who made it out to look like BLM are anti-police and violent.

                Jan 6 was insurrection. How many arms were seized? How many leftist or police killed? (Actually an arms cache was seized in a vehicle belonging to antifa group)
                2017 inauguration of Trump was a very peaceful rally by the Left at the White House.

              • You asked where the hate behind the hate crimes derives. I gave you the background. You can accept it or not. If not, you have to figure out why there has been a step-up in Asian hate crimes. I read a report that fear among Asians is significant as they can no longer stay at home but are vaccinated and have to go out and go to work.

                As for BLM and the capitol break-in, they are topics I’m not inclined to opine on. I know there have been over 400 arrests for the capitol break-in and Republicans chose not to investigate which of their members were on the phones with the rioters that day as colleagues hid in fear of their lives. It will play out in the courts and at the polls without my help.

              • LCPL_X says:

                “If that was in fact the case, what then is the legal ramifications for US and China?”

                chemp , let me jump in here. Joe and I actually already discussed Asian hate, and as a result also covered BLM and Capitol riot as compare/contrast. Antifa too. If I remember correctly (maybe karl remembers that thread), the issue specific to the Capitol riot that ‘s not present in your BLM/Antifa Dem collusion, is that GOP reps actually opened doors, and were documented having toured these folks. Thus in the Capitol riot the GOP reps were actually complicit. that’s a big deal.

                But I just wanted to quickly address that question above, since that’s related to Wuhan.

                Is your assumptiion here that China didn’t know what was going on in Wuhan lab? pls. clarify.

              • chemrock says:

                There are no side I’m taking, whether it’s China, US, Red or Blue. Just burning questions.

                1. Does China know — I’m thinking nothing escapes CCP or PLA. There is obvious US-China collaboration and cooperation in the Wuhan research. Whether their motivations and objectives are similar I have no idea. But certainly interesting to prise.

                2. I agree with Joe the Capitol event is best left to the courts. But I have questions. There are thousands of hours of CCTV videos which is of great help to law enforcements to track down the 400 or so who got inside. But how is it none of those who broke windows have been caught? The GOP-opening doors theory is of course adds to the ‘insurrection’ claim. But the fact is Capitol doors have certain security features with auto control locking system. If locked, it can only be opened from the inside, not manually but by access to security codes. These are US standards even in their embassies all over the world. Capitol security top honcho is Nancy Pelosi, no GOPs.

                To me it is pretty obvious DOJ and FBI puts on great drama when they go out to arrest those who entered the building. Helicopters, armoured cars, 20 armed to the teeth personnel etc etc and only CNN the accredited news people. Sometimes to arrest gramdmas in MAGA caps.

                Just stating one point here only. There are many, but I’m really not interest to go into this. Let the courts work out. Only thing is I don’t see the equity in the case treatment. When one compares to those arrested for rioting in other cities who are released on bail put up with Sorros money.

              • What is the source for the statement that none of the window-breakers has been arrested? It’s a peculiar accusation. For sure some people facilitating break-in have been charged:

                https://www.justice.gov/usao-dc/pr/active-duty-us-marine-corps-officer-arrested-assault-federal-law-enforcement-officer

                This recent CBS report summarizes the arrests:

                https://www.cbsnews.com/news/capitol-riot-arrests-latest-2021-06-08/

                I think as far as equity of cases, judicially, one would have to know the cases being compared. Federal crimes or local? Individuals or conspiracies? What laws were broken? So you’d have to sort that out. I’m sure there are legitimate differences. You’d also have to provide source documentation that Soros money is being used systematically to get people out on bail. Some capitol rioters have been let out on bail. That requires more research, too.

                The one thing that is different about the capitol law-breaking is that it was conspiracy (Oathkeepers, Proud Boys), and it was overthrow of the nation (serious federal crime). So window-breaking was not the crime. Conspiracy, sedition, attacking police . . . those were the focus of inquiry.

              • Here is a video recap of the riot by the Washington Post. One of the window-breakers was a woman shot and killed by capitol police.

              • Here is the charge against the Oathkeepers, so you can see that it is specific to the federal crimes and conspiracy angle.

                https://www.justice.gov/usao-dc/case-multi-defendant/file/1369071/download

              • This article explains the lack of bail for some of the capitol riot arrestees. There are usually reasons for everything if one starts with the presumption of good faith. https://www.wusa9.com/article/news/national/capitol-riots/threats-against-witnesses-keep-proud-boy-christopher-worrell-in-jail-on-capitol-riot-charges/65-8dc7fd58-460c-4c9d-9a69-3407df836299

              • chemrock says:

                (1) Source for no window breakers arrested :: Agree this is speculation on my part. But it is based on this. DOJ/FBI makes a big drama show of arresting grandmas in MAGA hats. Many old folks caught in there said they wandered in, got pushed along, some said police waved them in. If they had caught window breakers one can be damn sure they will publicise those photos and show culprits nabbed.

                (2) Equity of cases — yes I understand your point about state/federal laws and insurgency acts and the difference in gravity. That’s the whole idea about calling it insurgency. But this seems to be falling apart due to lack of evidence.

                (3) Sorros money.
                A lot of money have been poured into racial equity non-profits. Open Society poured in $220m. Of course some went to fund legitmate projects, some to expanded in undeserving projects. The sponsors had no control over the detailed expenditure. BLM got a lot of the dole. Of course some went to payment for the 4 real estate purchases by the Cullors-Khan.

                More damaging than just funding is the 17 DAs that Sorros sponsored into office. Just look at the ant-establishment work they are doing. Especially against law and order. Look at Gascon. Presently, he is in the process of releasing a double homicide jailbird.

                Here are some areas that questions and investigations are needed:

                Non-profit : Minnesota Freedom Fund
                The fund to help rioters skip bail
                Sorros $35m
                Many Hollywood types chipped in
                Kamala staffers donated.
                13 Biden staffers donated (https://www.yahoo.com/news/biden-staff-donate-group-pays-211635699.html)
                Kamala’s tweet for contributions to fund bail money for Minnesota rioters

                Amongst people this fund helped to release :
                Darnika Floyd is an accused murderer who was in jail for stabbing a man to death.
                Donovan Boone is a violent fugitive who was in jail for breaking and entering and attempting to strangle his ex-girlfriend.
                Jaleel Stallings is an attempted cop killer who was in jail for firing at police during the George Floyd riots.
                Christopher Boswell is a serial rapist who was in jail on sexual assault and kidnapping charges.

                Non-Profit: The Bail Project
                2 members were “Sorros Justice Fellows” (which received funds from Sorros’ Open Society)
                Received $350,000-$1m from federal Covid loans (according to CNN Politics)
                In the rioting in Louisville re Breonna Taylor’s death — antifa caught on camera collecting riot gears from a U-haul. Vehicle was rented to Holly Zoeller from The Bail Project.

              • 1) It was a theory with no basis used to imply wrongdoing. Horrible stuff. 2) What is falling apart? Source. 3) Racial equity non-profits are a bad thing? I’ll have to research some of these leads.

                As for the overall gist of your comments, can you bullet-point what it is you think needs to change? I’m seeing a lot of flakey aspersions flying about with no where to go. What can we focus on to try to reach an understanding? Soros and racial equity legal processes is one. What else?

              • I will use this comment box (edited) to document discoveries. Give me a little time to wade through this, as it will be updated.

                1. George Soros is a rich capitalist who runs philanthropy efforts around the world.
                2. Open Society Foundations (OSF) operate in 37 countries and spends about $1.2 billion. It is the second biggest philanthropy program next to that of the Gates Foundation. OSF is banned in Russia and has problems in a few other countries as well.
                3. OSF granted ‘at least’ $33 million to civil rights. Presumably 2020.
                4. Other donation programs are general ‘liberal’ or ‘leftist’.
                5. Minnesota Freedom Fund (MFF) was set up after the police killing of George Floyd to help provide bail and legal assistance to protestors who were arrested. Millions of donations poured in followed by criticisms about whether money was being used properly. It appears they were pushing money out so fast (good faith to donors) they put it behind bad people. Note: “Minnesota’s incarcerated population boasts one of the largest racial disparities in the country, with an incarcerated ratio of 11 Native Americans and 4.7 African Americans to every white person incarcerated.”
                6. Protestors vs rioters. The definition probably depends on one’s political cause. Ha! A conservative would consider the capitol gathering to be a protest and a BLM gathering to be a riot. A liberal would see it the opposite.
                7. Biden staffer donations and Harris appeal for donations? Good faith. They were putting their money behind their words. Extreme press present the story as MFF being an agent of Biden/Harris rather than a cause they donate to. Background: https://www.rawstory.com/2020/08/right-wing-news-sites-appear-to-sync-racist-messaging-with-the-trump-campaign-in-against-biden/
                8. Darnika Floyd; accused murderer; MFF paid bail of $100,000; widely criticized.
                9. Donovan Boone; attempting to strangle his ex-girlfriend; MFF paid bail of $3,000; widely criticized.
                10. Jaleel Stallings; “attempted cop killer” (shot at SWAT team responding to riot); MFF provided bail of $75,000; widely criticized.
                11. Christopher Boswell; “serial rapist” (twice convicted); MFF paid bail of $350,000; widely criticized.
                12. The Bail Project. Similar to MFF, providing bail to the underprivileged with a couple of cases going famously bad.

                I am struck in googling the cases as to how they form an orchestrated effort among right wing groups to attach the Biden name to cases he probably knew nothing about, that went bad. Very much the DDS style of taking bad news and making it the real character of people trying to do good deeds. Smear work.

                Okay. I’m done with this comment now.

              • Editorial comment. The Soros donations seem to be in support of giving legal assistance to the disadvantaged, like Free Legal Assistance in the Philippines. Wholly well-intended unless one believes people with little means don’t deserve legal representation.

              • I’m impressed by Prime Minister Johnson’s awareness of what the BLM protests are about. https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/with-nod-black-lives-matter-uks-johnson-gives-biden-mural-photo-2021-06-10/

          • LCPL_X says:

            “Why did it replicate the choice the lab’s gain of function researchers would have made?”

            “Was it omitted in the hope that nobody would notice this evidence of gain of function origin?”

            These are just leading questions though, chemp. Not evidence. By this time they should be able to conclusively say Hey this is why it’s man-made, because this and that…

            Why no scientific papers making this point yet?

            “Thus you find Fuaci explaining all the time about risk and benefit analysis that they took. This is the grey area that legislators like Rand Paul are trying to fix. Basically, the question is who makes the analysis and determines its ok to take the risks.”

            This is at the crux of your conspiracy theory, chemp. Bureaucracies tend to operate on their own, for example I’m sure not every American knew that the American gov’t was testing nuclear weapons; or that the Marine Corps was gonna switch to one camouflage pattern and patent it as to prevent other services from using it.

            These are decisions that don’t really require bad actors, but just humans making decisions using their positions within said bureaucracies, sometimes their decisions don’t really bother anyone, other times it affects people and their decisions become open to all sorts of bad faith conclusions.

            So, in short , the answer to the question you ask is its the gov’t that makes those decisions. For example, abortions will be illegal again. There will be people that say make them legal, and those that will fight to ensure its illegal. Function research I assume only scientists and virologists would be pulling and tugging as to its benefits or danger.

            You’d further your argument if you can explain why there are no scientific papers explaining that this CGG gene is the smoking gun meaning man-made; and you can further implicate Fauci if he in fact had man-made espousing virologist killed, or just professionally ostracized. But the question still stands, why no conclusive lad-made evidence til now.

            • I really appreciate the balancing you give this, LCX. It has helped me to see the pernicious drift from bias to mistrust to suspicion to leading questions to presumptions to conspiracies to new truths built on absolutely no facts. It’s the modern social media perversion, better than porn. Haha.

              • LCPL_X says:

                “Although the double CGG is suppressed naturally, the opposite is true in laboratory work.”

                I’m no scientist, Joe. but that to me is already suspect, I mean how do you know this particular virus doesn’t suppress that CGG combination. You’d have to account for the possibility that in fact this virus prefers it no?

              • I’ve not followed the technical details. I’m waiting for Biden’s report.

              • LCPL_X says:

                Joe,

                My point is that , this isn’t really technical, its common sensical.

                We know the sphere of man’s understanding represented by the lab here, and all that’s known under the subsphere of virology… that’s the technical side of this.

                Outside that sphere is nature, and everything that occurs outside our sphere of understanding. In this case virology. We know that nature is more immense, a lot of unknowns, than what we humans can ever know.

                Which renders this statement…

                “Although the double CGG is suppressed naturally, the opposite is true in laboratory work.”

                That particular statement is suspect because it presumes that we know more of the sphere of nature, than we do of lab work (sphere of human understanding).

                What we know in the lab informs what occurs in nature, not vice versa… but that statement already closes all possibility that theres still a lot of unks in nature, and it assumes nature is already known by us, that we know what

                nature favors and what it doesn’t favor. And this is wrong. Thus whoever wrote that Wall Street article has not a discerning mind, nor common sense. Don’t trust everything in print.

                The better question to ask is:

                Does the virus that causes COVID prefer that CGG combination?

  31. i7sharp says:

    About the masks … and a LOT MORE!:
    “The Fauci Papers”
    [deleted link]
    The Savage Nation – Michael Savage

    • I deleted the link as it would not connect for me, so I could not preview the material. As I have stated before, this is a discussion thread, in the main. Perhaps you could summarize his main points. If Savage is the heir apparent to Rush Limbaugh, I won’t publish links to his work. Readers can follow him if they choose.

    • i7sharp says:

      About the masks:
      x-
      “After all, size matters. The pore size of cloth face coverings range from 20 to 100 microns. The COVID virus is 200 to 1000 times smaller than that, at 0.1 microns. Putting up a chain link fence will not keep out a mosquito. Even the most esteemed medical journals admit their purpose is to calm anxiety. ‘The expanded masking protocol’s greatest contribution may be to reduce the transmission of anxiety.’ “
      -x
      Source: https://www.newsmax.com/michaelsavage/Anthony-Fauci-Medical-CDC-Cover-up/2021/06/04/id/1023963/

      • I will post this because it reflects the kind of dysfunctional, emotionalized discourse that people are using to make real decisions these days. It is the last such piece I will publish here because people’s real lives are at stake.

        Here is the CDC’s brief on masks:

        https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/science/science-briefs/masking-science-sars-cov2.html

        • This article addresses the size issue. Masks don’t stop individual viruses, they stop human respiratory droplets, to which the virus attaches with enough ‘load’ to be contagious. So the ‘mosquito through a chain link fence’ argument is wrong. The mosquito attaches to a bird which is blocked by the fence, so it is blocked. Wear a mask, eh? Be a JoeAm, not an i7Sharp. 🤣🤣😂

          https://www.news-medical.net/health/The-Size-of-SARS-CoV-2-Compared-to-Other-Things.aspx

          • sonny says:

            Right on the nose, Joe. That’s why I brought up the polarity of viruses and moisture/pH in our exhalations as additional factors to consider, the birds, as you pointed out. 🙂 These could minimize the critical number of viruses reaching our nasal passages.

            • I tell you sonny, the level of nonsense going around is so thick I wonder if the concept of humans as intelligent beings is flat-out wrong. More likely we are in a collective deep dive toward delusional.

        • NHerrera says:

          The non-believers in masks are free not to wear masks, except of course if one lives in the PH and other countries which mandate such or face a penalty.

          My credo on masks:

          – there is a preponderance of studies that show the decrease in transmissibility of the virus due to a combination of “Source Control to Block Exhaled Virus” and “Filtration for Wearer Protection” [CDC’s phrases];
          – the amount of viral load one acquires is relevant to the susceptibility to acquiring the virus;
          – the decrease in transmissibility of the virus (item 1) decreases the infection build-up due to the virus source and un-infected both wearing masks and thus the scary math of exponential growth of infections;
          – until vaccines offer the more effective inhibitor of the growth;
          – I am a conscientious student of statistics and math;
          – wearing a mask for a bicycle rider or alone in a closed car, or even with an open window, I concede is ridiculous.

          I double-mask and make sure the masks fit snuggly on my face, regardless of what the non-wearers say. My wife and I (ages 81, 82) both got our first dose of AstraZeneca vaccines three weeks ago, but I still double-mask when I go out on average bi-weekly occasions even for a short time.

          • NHerrera says:

            To the TSH Editor: I am not preaching and seeking converts to my “religion” here; I am just making a comment. 🙂

          • Makes good sense to me. It’s statistical. Work ’em.

            • LCPL_X says:

              The other reason I kinda like masks is facial recognition software.

              So although I double mask in especially crowded places. I these days wear one when in heavy cameras area. Like the mall or getting gas. I like the fact that masks are now normalized, to allow me the feeling that I’m somehow screwing up facial recognition software.

              But that’ s just a feeling. Which comes cheap with only a mask. So I’m happy.

              I’ve been trying to introduce facial recognition as reason for masking to folks I know who are rabidly anti-mask. The science of droplets they doubt, but I seem to be getting some traction with facial recognition.

              I don’t tell them that its just a feeling being satiated, unknown if softwares actually sabotaged, but I figure less data to analyze for AI, better for humans when it comes to facial recognition.

              • NHerrera says:

                Frustrating Big Brother, but you’re not in Hongkong or mainland China especially in Xinjiang but in the US of A, Lance. And you did not participate in that tourist walk in the Capitol on January 6? Please clarify.

              • LCPL_X says:

                Much of that tech used in HK, China and the Gulf states are from startup companies here, NH. Not only facial recognition but of gait recognition as well. Why I also tend to walk with hands in pocket and a little skip and a hop now and then. In my mind, I’m moving like Fred Astaire, but I’m sure it just looks weird.

                SF outlawed it , but too late, Nest and other software its everywhere really.

                Although I’m for decentralized digital money, I’m not for decentralized surveillance. So not so much Big Brother per se, but AI in general knowing my face and gait, NH. chemp, might say Hey, LCPL_X, why worry if you have nothing to hide. My answer is, what if sometime in the future I will have something to hide.

                (but these are just feelings that I’m somehow sabotaging A.I., NH, for all I know my face and gait have already been inputted. But IMHO little acts of rebellion in the end are healthy, offers some semblance of control is all.)

              • The most hilarious street performer I ever saw was a guy on the Venice bikepath who would walk behind people and imitate their gait. He’d collected a huge crowd. When the person he was mocking turned around to see what the crowd was laughing at, he’d walk normally, innocent as hell. Huge confusion. More laughter. You can develop skills, y’know.

              • LCPL_X says:

                Never thought of that… like a chameleon but of gaits.

  32. chemrock says:

    I feel that this article of Joe’s hit at one crux of the malaise of the country. I kind of have a vision of Joe sitting under a coconut tree and dishing out wisdom like a Filipino Sadhguru.

    This is indeed a lesson that one can teach a class of school kids, pass on to colleagues, talk with friends at Starbucks, and more importantly, amongst family members as we hunker down for the night. Wisdom ought to be passed along in this manner and these are contributions that the small man, or woman, can make to our society.

    I have always thought that if I were a school teacher, I would always expand 5 minutes each day before lesson proper, just to relate some current affairs and shine some wisdom on the ethics or virtues the story provides. It will be my teaching moments, my making a difference even if I were a small time mathematics or accounts teacher.

    Good faith, without doubt, is the barometer to measure a person’s deeds. But just what is good faith. Some examples are quoted, woods like ‘good intent’ floated. Can we just assume that everyone knows what good faith is? After all, the blog title is a question “Do Filipinos understand….??”

    The Doctrine of Good Faith underpines all contractual relationships. When parties enter into a contract, both expect the other to perform to the best of his abilities under the contract and to be above board in terms of information etc. Indeed, in insurance contracts, both parties rely on UTMOST good faith. If you buy a vehicle insurance policy, you are expected to drive with due diligence. If you buy a life policy and you tick in the box you are not a smoker, it is expected that you really honest to goodness, do not smoke.

    In the context of politics, when we elect officials, a similar doctrine of good faith exists. We expect elected officials to perform in good faith. Equally, our country expects of us voters to vote in good faith. A voter’s good faith demands upon him the responsibly to use his ballot wisely. He should vote for the candidate that he feels is best for the constituency. This imposes on the voter to study the candidate’s qualification, agenda, history, etc. Absence of good faith by either voter or elected official condemns the constituency to mediocrity.

    In a hierarchical organisation, line operatives expect, and rely on, the good faith of those above or below them. Government officials rely on the good faith of their subordinates. This has to be so or the organisation becomes impossible to function. In this regards, from the perspective of a foreign observer, Philippines has a problem. Much has been talked about micro-managing being prevalent in most offices. Good faith is lacking which creates an incumbency to micro-manage. The task of micro-managing is resource wasting and inefficiency in performance.

    Government officials cannot rely on the veil of good faith of subordinates to defray accountability. The Supreme Court in 2018 case of DPWH-ARMM executives Farouk Abubakar, Ulama Baraguir, and Dtukan Guiani sets out the inapplicability of reliance on good faith when circumstances put the superiors on notice to pursue enquiries.

    Good faith boils down to the motive of the performance as driven in the best interest of party being served. In the case of the public interest, it has also got to be for the greater good. The DPWH builds a road through the village for everyone. They can’t build it to best serve the village chief’s residence. Dengxavia could have cause some fatalities, but it was a program to save lives.

    Judging an official’s act on whether it was in the best interest of a greater public is the test of good faith.

    • Giant bamboo trees, actually. Your paper gets commendations, having crystalized the role of good faith very, very well.

    • chemrock says:

      “Government officials cannot rely on hide behind the veil of good faith

    • LCPL_X says:

      “There were counter arguments.
      Murat Seyran et al published in the Journal of Medical Virology (vs GKA’s nature.com – a question of integrity).
      The concluded “…,These unique features of SARS-CoV-2 raise several questions concerning the proximal origin of the virus that require further discussion.”
      In other words, the natural evolution narrative is challenged.”

      Where are these counter arguments, and what exactly is their proof that COVID virus is man made?

      Having read the nature article I still don’t see what the fuss was, what is GKA accused of doing here, really?

      “More scientific data could swing the balance of evidence to favor one hypothesis over another. Obtaining related viral sequences from animal sources would be the most definitive way of revealing viral origins. For example, a future observation of an intermediate or fully formed polybasic cleavage site in a SARS-CoV-2-like virus from animals would lend even further support to the natural-selection hypotheses. It would also be helpful to obtain more genetic and functional data about SARS-CoV-2, including animal studies. The identification of a potential intermediate host of SARS-CoV-2, as well as sequencing of the virus from very early cases, would similarly be highly informative. Irrespective of the exact mechanisms by which SARS-CoV-2 originated via natural selection, the ongoing surveillance of pneumonia in humans and other animals is clearly of utmost importance.”

      “The genomic features described here may explain in part the infectiousness and transmissibility of SARS-CoV-2 in humans. Although the evidence shows that SARS-CoV-2 is not a purposefully manipulated virus, it is currently impossible to prove or disprove the other theories of its origin described here. However, since we observed all notable SARS-CoV-2 features, including the optimized RBD and polybasic cleavage site, in related coronaviruses in nature, we do not believe that any type of laboratory-based scenario is plausible.”

      GKA actually leaves open the possibility that COVID virus was man made, chemp. “currently impossible to prove or disprove”; which means that if this Chinese scientist can prove it, then good right?

      Daszak’s position in your conspiracy theory (meaning there’s conspiracy afoot) seems to be in orchestrating all this cover up. Though his place in this conspiracy theory would be akin to Bill Gates place, so is he then top or under Bill Gates in this hierarchy of conspiracy.

      Understanding his part and place in all this is key, so far this is murky, unless you can clarify. But GKA’s article seems pretty consistent with how scientific papers are, “currently impossible” leaves open for further evidence to be considered in the future.

      Fastforward to now, what are these further evidence, and how are they compelling enough to prove “purposefully manipulated virus”; so this is where you link to articles or papers to “counter arguments”, chemp. GKA is no boogeyman to me. Sorry.

    • i7sharp says:

      “Good faith, without doubt, is the barometer to measure a person’s deeds. But just what is good faith.”

      Chemrock,
      “What is good faith?” you ask.
      How about we define “faith” first?
      ——-
      “Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.”
      ——-

      Now ready to discuss this with you … and with, of course, Joe. And others.

      To try to keep things in context, let me say I do not think Michael Savage, whose latest podcast is titled “The Fauci Papers,” is an (or the) “heir apparent” to Rush Limbaugh.

      • chemrock says:

        There is nothing to muddy the meaning of faith in the context of this blog.
        It is the voter’s trust placed on the elected officials that the latter will perform their duties in the best interest of the constituents.

        Thus, in our context here, the ‘faith’ (for that which are wished for) belongs to the voters. We are talking of the voters’ faith in the official. When the official acts, his performance should be to deliver goods or services in congruence with the wishes and or in the best interest of the voters. If he does that, the official has acted in good faith.

        However, this puts us in a bind as it’s a circular idea.

        All candidates are likely to be seen to act in good faith in the eyes of their constituents.

        Folks who voted Liberal want things done in a constitutional manner. Thus they are likely to vote Leni, Bam, Roxa, Pnoy, even Trillanes etc as they deem these are candidates that will act constitutionally.

        Folks who vote Duterte, Pacman, etc wants macho man. They don’t want mushy elitist scholars. So when officials act via muscles and guns and goons, they act in good faith to deliver what their votes hoped for.

        Getting too nutty for me.

        • Yes, you capture the fluidity of good faith well. Everyone thinks they are acting in it. That’s when you hold up the Constitution as the moral guidepost. Guns and goons are for defense, and maybe to secure elections, but not to influence them, and not to kill people outside of due process and limits on restraint of force.

          • chemrock says:

            Yes.Agreed.

            So the yellows and the macho lovers can only settle their debate by having an Absolute good faith. In a democracy, we need to be dogmatic constitutionalists. The Constitution is the absolute truth.

            • Postwar Germany (I tend to agree with the West German “core state theory” that never fully recognized East Germany as a real state, thus diplomatic missions between the two de facto countries were called “permanent missions” and not Embassies, and one of the final acts to establish unity in 1990 was the reunification of Berlin as one city-state and the five states of old East Germany joining the Federal Republic) has been stabilized by dogmatic Constitutionalism, the venerable 1949 Constitution is like a secular Bible.

              The experience of the Weimar Republic having been torn apart by right-wing and left-wing extremists waging pitched street battles was seen as to be avoided at all costs. And that one extremist group ruled Germany from ’33-’45 and another East Germany from ’49-’89.

  33. NHerrera says:

    More on good faith.

    Obama, the thinking US President, was interviewed by CNN’s Anderson Cooper. While he may not be 100% unbiased, his relatively relaxed perch now, his characteristic deliberation and his vantage point from being a former President suggest (to me at least) that he has something important to say — on US Democracy going forward, among others.

    https://southeast.newschannelnebraska.com/story/44049973/obama-reflects-on-becoming-a-man-program-i-understood-what-it-means-to-be-an-outsider

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out /  Change )

Google photo

You are commenting using your Google account. Log Out /  Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out /  Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out /  Change )

Connecting to %s

This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.