Crafting a Grown-Up’s Policy with China

Analysis and Opinion

By Joe America

This article is completely hypothetical, in the interest of promoting further discussion.

China forces other nations into a parent-child relationship in which China is the parent and the child is dealt with severely if he gets out of order.

The Philippines under President Duterte is very much the child, acquiescing to China’s guidance and instructions, and perhaps payments, who knows.

In this article, I will argue that a close relationship with China makes sense, but it needs to be grown-up to grown-up or Filipinos will be subjects rather than equals to Chinese citizens.

Why it Makes Sense

Filipinos need good paying jobs. China will have them. China needs resources. The Philippines has them.

China’s one-child policy is leaving her without enough young people to keep the farms, factories, and businesses working. It is an OFW paradise in the making. Millions of jobs. Dwarfing any existing Filipino OFW market.

The Philippines has ores and food, including a whole underwater plateau of methane gas in the Philippine Rise (formerly Benham Rise). China is an export paradise.

What is “Grown-Up”?

Grown-up, from the Philippine viewpoint, is to recognize that the Philippines is not some poor victim, a helpless, hopeless, poverty-wracked orphan of Asia. The Philippines has its own strengths, resources, climate, location, and size. It is not a small place, or a small market. It has people.

A grown-up foreign policy simply insists that China recognize the right of Filipinos to run their own affairs, under law. Then the Philippines can help China immensely. The policy of confrontation and occupation must end. If the Philippines becomes more Chinese in character, language, and population, it must occur naturally under normal rules of respect and equality.

If China does not find these terms acceptable, the Philippines can craft deals with other nations and, if China insists on playing the bully parent, remove China’s influence and businesses from Philippine markets, starting with China Telecom. Then the mines.

Some Policy Rules

Forgive me if I am abrupt or out of the box. We can discuss some of these points further in the discussion thread.

Here is a sampling of the kinds of policy rules to be implemented, shaped further through debate or Legislative acts:

  • Any Chinese or joint developments in Philippine territory, including its Exclusive Economic Zone, must be according to Philippine laws and adjudicated in Philippine courts.
  • China may build one military base in Philippine EEZ waters, subject to Philippine Legislative approval, and remove it upon Legislative demand. China will lease this base according to agreed terms.
  • China will desist from overseeing fishing, exploration, or mining operations by the Philippines and Filipinos in the Philippine EEZ.
  • Chinese business interests will end the practice of establishing segregated enclaves for Chinese workers and residents in the Philippines and will work to assure open and equal access to jobs and homes by Filipinos.
    • Businesses will build and operate Mandarin language schools if Chinese-language employment in a business or area exceeds 250 jobs.
    • The Philippine Legislature will establish “equal opportunity” hiring targets for Filipinos in businesses run by Chinese owners or interests.
  • Filipino workers in China will be granted professional status as free-market workers who have the right to make employment choices without fear, favor, or force. They will be treated fairly and humanely.,


Should China persist in infringing upon Philippine sovereignty, the Philippines will be forced to find military security in alliances with other states, and will nurture export and OFW placements outside of China.

The ultimate goal is for the Philippines to remain unaligned, free, independent, prosperous, and grown-up.

China can realize tremendous benefits by helping the Philippines achieve this goal.


Photo from Global Times

257 Responses to “Crafting a Grown-Up’s Policy with China”
  1. Joe America says:

    This article, out this morning, reflects the confrontational relationship that harms both China and the Philippines.

  2. NHerrera says:

    I want to join the thoughts in this article with Duterte’s statement that China is a friend. The latter statement to be accurate is one Filipino expressing his view — he is the President of the country, but my view, as well as others, is that that statement is not the general sentiment of the Filipinos. To others, it may be more accurate to say China wants to be a friend of the country and most Filipinos. Current and medium-term historical actuation of China, however, drives most Filipinos away from accepting China as a friend, particularly when there is the stark contrast of the US as a handy reference.

    In short to be a real friend, be a friend.

  3. AJ Carpio said something very important in an interview – Reed Bank exploration could be hampered by Dutz saying China is “in possession” of the WPS.

    Why Reed Bank exploration is critical stunned me: Carpio said that Malampaya might run out by 2024 (verified this) and that it supplies 60% of Luzon’s electricity (believe Carpio on this as I couldn’t verify it) which would mean 12 hours of brownouts per day.

    More shocking: no Filipino paper picked that up. Too little sense of what really matters.

  4. Karl Garcia says:

    Mary alerted me to this news on FB, she saw my dad’s name included.

  5. distant observer says:

    The Chinese Communist Party has a plan for the Philippines

    Allow me to add a darker take on this topic.

    Since the late 1980s/early 1990s, the CCP has ruled pretty much by buying its citizens’ acquiescence through economic improvement. Every year, China’s GDP grew astronomically and the average Chinese earned more than the previous year. We are talking about an annual wage growth above 10% since the mid 1990s. But these heydays are over. The Party needs to get growth rates to sustainable levels. On the other side, we have the average Chinese worker who is used to such regular wage increases. The Party faces a difficult dilemma. The Party exploits ethnic minorities to work under slave-like conditions in order to be able to remain highly competitive in international markets. But all these Uyghurs, Mongols, Tibetans and other groups not directly relevant for the Party’s legitimacy, are just too small in numbers. The Party needs to look elsewhere, abroad.

    The Philippines has a lot to offer. More than 100 Million people with an advantageous age pyramid, close to the mainland, and already pervaded by Chinese (state controlled) companies.

    If nothing changes fundamentally, the Party certainly will not work towards securing good paying jobs for Filipinos, rather the opposite. The good paying jobs will remain firmly in Han Chinese hands. China’s need for young workers will certainly contribute to the country becoming a huge market for Filipino OFWs. But this seemingly OFW paradise might well turn into a nightmare, reminiscent of the worst experiences from Saudi Arabia and other places. The problem could quickly reach unimagined dimensions, Raffy Tulfo won’t be able to rescue them all. The Party treats its own peoples with disdain, why should it be more benevolent to Filipinos?

    Yes, some growing-up needs to take place. But don’t expect too much from the CCP. Better; expect nothing from the Party. The Philippines has to become aware and be confident in its strengths, talents and resources. There are many! Calling world leaders sons of bitches is the behavior of an adolescent. We all know how growing up hurts: all these first-time experiences and failings, unrequited love and self-doubt. In these times, a dependable point of reference helps to foster a mature identity. I hope that TSOH can play a tiny part as such a reference.

    • Good point. Good topic for a blog. Thanks for that.

    • Karl Garcia says:

      Thanks DO, care to write again here?

    • NHerrera says:

      @distant observer, you have put your thoughts in a nutshell. Thanks. A full article in TSH may stimulate more comments/ discussions from other readers and commenters on a very important and timely topic. Please consider.

    • LCPL_X says:

      “The Philippines has a lot to offer. More than 100 Million people with an advantageous age pyramid, close to the mainland, and already pervaded by Chinese (state controlled) companies.”

      do you think, DO, that China is the one funding all these care-giving schools and licensure programs? What other industries to look out for, to stay clear from? Unless you end up in China like some poor Uyghur or Tibetan.

      Partnership for Israel with more and more Filipinos going there (sure yes as care-givers, and servants) but their progenies who grow up there get to join the IDF and have paths to citizenship.

      Again Israel and Palestinian long game fight is population pyramid driven. Filipinos make lots of babies plus have skills to offer. Plus will switch religions at will like Pacquiao. Israel and Philippines, not Phillipines and China.

      Plus Israel is leaps and bounds when it comes to fresh water and desalination.

      • I’m trying to decipher this posting. Key thoughts seem to be: China is training Filipinos to be servants. China is a horrible place to be for the discriminatory attitudes. Israel is a better place to work, yes as care-givers and servants (subtly demeaning view). Their kids can join the army and become citizens there. Filipinos make lots of babies (outright obnoxious view) so can help in some population pyramid battle plan. Plus Filipinos switch religions at will (citing Pacquiao to complete the fallacious and demeaning argument). So go to Israel, not China.

        What a singularly ugly-American posting, offering specious and demeaning argument on cultural stereotypes. Kindly refrain from posting further on this subject.

        Many Filipinos work in Israel. There will be millions of job availabilities in China. All kinds. And as Filipinos become admirals and doctors and engineers and nurses and caretakers in the United States, they do the noble work of raising families and caring for their relatives in the Philippines. They can do the same thing in China if they master the language. It will be an employee’s market, the demand and wages attractive for the adventuring soul. Some can get jobs in Israel, too.

        The point of the article is the massive job opportunities, all kinds, coming on-line, right here in Asia, two or three hours away. Opportunities to do noble work.

        • Kindly resist your normal response of twisting the ugly arguments further thereby continuing them. You have one shot to stay out of moderation. Please take it and zip it.

          • LCPL_X says:

            “If nothing changes fundamentally, the Party certainly will not work towards securing good paying jobs for Filipinos, rather the opposite. The good paying jobs will remain firmly in Han Chinese hands.”

            Youre missing DO’s warning, which I posted awhile back on. No riposte just DO’s warning. And I’ll leave it at that.

            • His warning is that China is hopelessly discriminatory and my bullet point “Filipino workers in China will be granted professional status as free-market workers who have the right to make employment choices without fear, favor, or force. They will be treated fairly and humanely.” is unlikely to happen. China would be an abusive place for Filipino workers. I would counter that Hong Kong has been a huge worker’s pool of opportunity, with some incidents of abuse, yes, but also considerable respect. I’m not aware that Filipinos there are busy making babies or swapping religions, nor did DO make those points.

              • LCPL_X says:

                Not Filipinos here, Joe. Filipinos there, here like any average 2.5 kids. There, especially the poor, average 8 (my guesstimate). Population pyramids is all about this.

              • That’s a side issue, not core. The trend line in the Philippines is toward smaller families.

              • distant observer says:

                Yes this was my warning.
                Hong Kong HAS BEEN a relatively safe place for Filipino OFWs.
                But: Hong Kong is not the same as before…

                On the population pyramid discussion, please refer to chemrock’s point below.

              • True, but it may be that the need for labor in China will change the mainland. The assumption that all Chinese are brutes because government is one seems a stretch to me.

  6. Karl Garcia says:

    Floating Solar by Aboitiz
    60 Mw to 200 mw

  7. Micha says:

    “The ultimate goal is for the Philippines to remain unaligned, free, independent, prosperous, and grown-up.”

    The only way to attain that is to develop the strategic advantage of our local economy – not promote and/or encourage the export of human labor; to China or elsewhere.

    • LCPL_X says:

      This I agree with , Micha.

    • That’s a fair argument. It pre-supposes a population willing to invest long term to build that economy, and a leadership capable of both leading the economic boom and the people toward that end. It also would have to forge come kind of relationship with China that would give the fish in the seas back to Filipinos. I don’t know how that gets done. So we run into the barrier of pragmatics. But yes, if that can be managed, it’s the better choice.

      • Micha says:

        “It pre-supposes a population willing to invest long term to build that economy…”

        No, it will only take one visionary leader of our national gov’t (meaning our national CEO, the President) and a compliant Congress to do that.

        We’ve been having this pragmatics thing for the last 35 years and look how have we been faring so far in terms of dignity, independence, and prosperity index.

        • Right. That’s the situation, and the best we can do here is an assessment of the likelihood of that happening. If you think it can change, great. I’m with you.

          • Micha says:

            It was Marcos who started this dependency on foreign remittances.

            And yet, from Cory’s time onwards, up to and including this present admin, we never bothered to discontinue, let alone re-assess the soundness of that policy.

          • LCPL_X says:

            Personally, I think this can be done via propaganda, just simply dissuade Filipinos from thinking that the grass is always greener on the otherside.

            It’s like the Mars colonization debate. And this ad/billboard outside of Elon Musk’s SpaceX office,

            Abroad sucks, it sucks here too, but its more fun here. Boom. or something like that, I’m not ad guy.

            Once you have a generation that think going abroad sucks, then Micha’s vision can happen, or not. My point is just that its cultural, this notion that the Earth is gonna be ruined thus we go to Mars, it’s similar

            to the Philippines going down, like a sinking ship, thus go abroad philosophy in life. Fix that first, i dunno what happens after, but if you fix that mindset that it sucks where you are, then you’ll make the best with it. IMHO.

            • Micha says:

              Very valid points.

              Musk is making a killing on his low orbit satellites but Starlink internet has connectivity issues that needs fixing too.

      • Micha says:

        We don’t have to necessarily forbid people from seeking job opportunities abroad. All I’m saying is, it should not be our national govt’s policy of depending on foreign remittances to sustain its economy.

        • LCPL_X says:

          I would just add that industries that lead nowhere should be cut off from the git-go, looking into sectors that grow. Or create new sectors. That’s why I always hammer hard on this slave/servant industries for Filipinos. Think bigger.

          p.s.– I don’t really know the science of birthrates, all I know is most poor Filipinos there had like 6 to 10 siblings. And I myself have seen plenty of times 5 year olds babysitting 1 year olds there. So that’s my take re population pyramid, as human resources go… China will see it as oh more care-givers for us; but my point is Micha’s point, that’s a nice looking population pyramid, let’s make the best out of it.

          As for religious conversions, that’s the reason by balik Islam movement is there; why Mormons are there. etc. etc. Many Filipinos who go to the ME also convert to Islam; why not Judaism. What ever gives you an advantage is my point.

          • Micha says:

            Fully agree on population bubble. There just have to come to a point when we must have to say no more.

            • According to Philippine census data, average household size was as follows:

              2000: 5.0
              2010: 4.6
              2015: 4.4


              • Micha says:

                Thanks Joe.

                That’s encouraging if not a bit deceiving. Philippine population still increased by 10 million in 5 years (2015 to 2020) on track to maintain our growth rate since 2000.

              • No deception intended. Just the facts related to baby-making. Years ago, I argued that population growth was a problem and got arguments that it is not. Indeed, China’s one child policy has created problems. So that debate needs more depth to it.

              • LCPL_X says:

                Maybe these graphs will help,

              • In what way? The Philippine population chart by age favors economic growth. The GDP per person chart shows the weakness in manufacturing and the productive aspects of an economy. More a weakness in the numerator than the denominator.

              • LCPL_X says:


                You are correct the pyramid favors economic growth, we ‘re simply saying don’t squander it, by favoring economies that don’t provide actual growth. But I agree on the down trend of births, though Micha’s correct the population growth is still trending, so maybe NH can clarify here.

                As for this third graph Indonesia seems the most populated in ASEAN, but we can already surmise that China won’t be dipping into their human capital; so too Malaysia. Because as Micha says brain drain is a purely Philippine policy. Compare other ASEANs population pyramids, and looks like the Philippines is it.

                At least as far as China’s concerned.

                Whether it goes well as you’ve postulated; or about even as DO suggests depending on the Party; or worst as I’m suggesting (and I think Micha), we’ll see. But those 3 graphs suggests, China’s interest in the Philippines may not be for material but for its people.

                So all 4 of us I think are correct simultaneously, quantitatively speaking. BUT China gets a say, qualitatively because Han chinese are Han chinese not because they favor heterogeneity.

              • Right. Well, Hans will be Hans, I suppose. There are no simple paths. My argument is that the Philippines should be grown up enough to know it has leverage over China, and ought to use that leverage to craft a mutually beneficial relationship. If the Hans think dominance is the only path, then it will likely play out badly. My presumption is they can be grown-up, too. That may be wrong. But it can be tested.

              • LCPL_X says:

                I’m sure brain drain is an issue for most countries around the world, karl.

                Take for instance Israel.

                Young talented educated Israelis are leaving Israel, like Gal Gadot. The folks left behind are plenty of Hasidic Jews, who have lots of babies and just study Yeshiva all day, and not even do military service. They hate Palestinians. Thus more right wing, anti- Palestinian, anti- non-Jews policies.

                But Israel isn’t really encouraging them to leave Israel. Just better opportunities and quality of life abroad.

                The Philippines though encourages its citizenry to leave and send money . The economy is buoyed by this. I’m sure Indonesians, Thais, Malaysians, don’t have a whole industry built around the receiving of big boxes from abroad.

                Dependency and encouraging of brain drain is the issue. Irony is not just brain drain but unskilled labor drain as well. Therein lies the ripeness of the problem, perfect for the picking by the Chinese. Like taking candy from a baby.

                But like Joe said, maybe it will be profitable. Hope for the best, prepare for the worst.

              • “The Last Word

                OFW remittances are closing the gap between the poor and the wealthy by contributing to a growing middle class. With improved living conditions and more disposable income, the consumption of goods and services increases, which drives the economy forward.

                In conclusion, the inflow of remittances can have a significant impact on the country’s economy. OFW remittances have significantly contributed to a positive force on the country’s earnings of foreign exchange. By substantially adding to the country’s earnings in foreign exchange, these remittances have contributed to the strengthening of the nation’s balance of payments position, sustaining the surpluses on current accounts.

                Even though it is a personal sacrifice to leave behind families and loved ones to go abroad and seek employment with higher wages. The remittances sent by the foreign workers are not only contributing at the macroscopic level of the national economy of the Philippines but also at the microscopic level of household finances.”


              • There’s a lot of literature about OFWs. The above article provides some basics.

              • Indonesia for instance does a lot for its students abroad via its Embassies – what I assume is they try to make sure most return. Thailand does have a lot of its women marrying Westerners, but a lot of Western men married to Thai women move to Thailand to retire, sure so do Westerners married to Filipinas but my hunch is that the Western expat community in Thailand is way bigger based on anecdotes I heard, plenty of Western men found small businesses and thrive there.

                Vietnam does have its immigrants in Eastern Europe from pre-1989. I have heard of returnees that speak German acting as bridgeheads for German firms – even SMEs – investing in Vietnam. I can imagine that a lot of Vietnamese restaurant owners over here (feels like there are more of them than Chinese restaurants by now) in Germany invest back home, but that community is not particularly talkative so I don’t know for sure.

                Seems they all indeed have smarter strategies in the long term than the Philippines.

              • chemrock says:

                Much has been said about Philippines demographics which is at a sweet spot. This has been boasted about for the last 12 years. I wrote something on this too in a past article.

                This demographic is the base from which a lot of countries break out economically, hence called a sweet spot. It was at one time thought that the same was holding true for PH when economic numbers improved tremendously under Pnoy. Alas, it sputtered as DU30 is unable to carry the torch further.

                In 10 years time, the sweet spot will pass the PH by and the country will enter the danger zone. That’s when falling birth rates, higher aging population, and poor savings will meet in a perfect storm. SSS may run out of cash by then. The clock is ticking.

        • I suppose there are two ways to look at people who go overseas like my great great grandfather did. With pity or with admiration. In writing the article, I was more trying to solve the China problem than advocate for overseas work as an ‘industry’.

          • kasambahay says:

            baon ang bansa natin sa utang, joeam. so heavily into chinese debt, generations to come will have hard time paying off chinese loans if we are not in debt trap already. ex pres noy aquino tried hard to pay off loans and previous loans accumulated by prior admins and was having success only for duterte to squander the gains. I doubt if people appreciate what pres aquino was doing, the bad debts cemented before their times.

            now, those ofws’ remittances are not taxed, di ba? money straight into the pocket, fluid. and you are correct too, remittances help boost local economy. and in a way, though circuitous maybe, help pay off our humongous and still growing foreign debts.

    • distant observer says:

      Thanks Micha! Couldn’t agree more.
      It all starts with a vision, not with a feasibility study.

    • Karl Garcia says:

      China will control the pipeline to Batangas, our energy sector will be under China’smercy.
      As said earlier all nearby fields will interconnect to Malampaya’spipeline.
      China had figured us out decades ago.

      • kasambahay says:

        it would be very easy for chinese consortium to export gas to china mainland and to other countries in need of gas, leaving little gas for us to use that maybe, our own supply would have to be rationed out, and priced nearly out of our reach.

  8. Karl Garcia says:

    China is building up on its electric car manufacturing.

    In the PH,the ejeep and the e tricycle is still on the experiment stage.

    • kasambahay says:

      our country has lost its competitive edge and has very little luck in attracting foreign investors, too many layers of red tape, etc. even food and drug admin is dragging its feet, there are around 300 manufacturers waiting renewals of trade license of previously registered products. I think, mostly those aligned with duterte got their license renewed like the one that was recently renewed for another 25yrs, even though the firm has questionable fund to cover its base and meet obligations.

      labor might be cheap here, but the political shenanigans stink and not conducive to business.

  9. Karl Garcia says:

    It may not be an official policy but offering nursing courses because it is in demand abroad…
    Offering Maritime courses to be the world’s seafarers.
    Offering caregiving courses to be caregivers of the aging world.

    The institutions must stop doing that.

    • Why? Where and how will people find jobs?

      • Karl Garcia says:

        Right, jobs first.

        Enough hospitals and facilities for healthcare pros.
        Enough shipyards. for shipbuilders and naval architects,etc.

        • Yes, definitely need more of such productive endeavors. But the scale of need is huge. There were 2.2 million OFWs in 2019. I think if you cut off the training, you cut off the opportunities and you get crime and struggling people. Seafaring is what nations have done for centuries. The Philippines excels at it. Filipino nurses are the best and staff US medical facilities. It’s the good life for many.

          • Or maybe I’m reading you wrong. Do you think it should be more training in those fields, or less?

            • Karl Garcia says:

              More training is needed, we are failing international standards in so many fields.
              If I sounded that I am against people seeking jobs abroad, then I will clarify that I am not.
              I was against schools being proactive in recruiting enrollees for jobs overseas and not here.

              If there is something wrong with that, then I am wrong.

              • If there were industries and hospitals here, and pay scales were better, I’d find it easier to agree. But I think there is nothing wrong with citizens seeking good jobs anywhere in the world. Training just fulfills a need. It doesn’t drive that, and shouldn’t be used to force people to take poor-paying jobs here.

              • Karl Garcia says:


  10. Re how Filipino OFWs are left behind during the pamdemic by Raissa Robles:

    Some infos on their history:

    1) POEA was founded in 1975.

    2) originally OFWs were forced to remit a part of their income via the Embassies using the official exchange rate which gave far less pesos than the (black) market rate. Tourists also had to exchange some of their Western currency via that rate, a practice very similar to what Communist countries like East Germany did in order to have more reserves of Western currency. Forced remittances were stopped after numerous complaints.

    3) OFWs and migrants were also double taxed, nearly every Philippine Embassy had a BIR office and passports were renewed only upon submission of complete BIR receipts for all past years. That was discontinued as many migrants gave up Filipino citizenship totally.

    4) Filipino “labor attaches” were allegedly indifferent to unfair employers way into the late 1980s, seamen with issues with employers often allegedly more pressured than helped.

    5) pressure from OFW and migrant groups who took the promise of democracy seriously from 1986 onwards slowly made DFA improve its services. Professionalization after the favored appointee Marcos period also helped.

    What is being reported now sounds like a return to Marcos-era treatment.

    BTW what is important to look at is what % of the population of a country works abroad. The Philippines with around 8% is quite high up, even if Romania with 25% has way more.

    • LCPL_X says:

      To piggy back off karl and Joe’s conversation above.

      And Ireneo’s linked article.

      The importance is also pathways to permanent residence and/or citizenship. Otherwise, like I’ve hammered again and again here, its just slave labor— the justification for improved economy based on the back of OFWs should have already improved conditions,

      instead these are the biggest DU30 supporters (what gives???!!) precisely because more of the OFWs’ money is being used to buy shabu. Of course, I’m not arguing statistics here, I’m arguing the process of raising a family when mom or dad or both are abroad.

      And what that does to a nation as a whole.

      I bet you Romania’s 25% are in Germany, France and UK, better life not worst, again I don’t know the stats and the side issue of that is BREXIT. So my idea for Filipinos to go to Israel would also incur an equal and opposite reaction, nonetheless theres legal residency/citizenship.

      So we return to Micha’s argument above, focus on keeping everything in house and develop from there, Japan, S. Korea did this, and China recently. Its not impossible.

      Between Joe’s vision of things (which I think is too rosy a picture of OFWs) and Micha’s , I am for Micha.

      So maybe the start of a solution here is if there’s an OFW bureau or something that grants visa/document for travel, maybe stop granting Filipinos docs to live and work, in such and such country that offer no path for permanent residence/citizenship.

      “I think if you cut off the training, you cut off the opportunities and you get crime and struggling people. Seafaring is what nations have done for centuries. The Philippines excels at it. Filipino nurses are the best and staff US medical facilities. It’s the good life for many.”

      Sorry, Joe, but that’s a false equivalence. Unless Filipino seamen are offered permanent residency/citizenship, then actually there’s no path forward, just your standard slave labor.

      As for crime , see above.

      So I think karl is moving to our team now, me and Micha’s, but karl is focused on training as the culprit which I think he’s on to something here because those “training” facilities have been known to bamboozle “trainees” , so again specify what defines official training, and stuff like care-giver training, etc.

      A lot of Filipinos pay for these services only the see they’ve paid for nothing, and or pay for them only to end up in a really bad situation abroad.

      Filipinos are already citizens of the Philippines which means any injustices can be addressed officially or unofficially; w/out citizenship youre at the mercy of your employers abroad.

      So although I agree with karl above, in regulating those “training” facilities, knowing the under and over the table dealings in the Philippines, you’ll be better off affecting some sort of DFA rule disallowing Filipinos from migrating and/or working to worst off places (I know that’s subjective, but I’m banking on Micha’s vision).

      • LCPL_X says:

        p.s.— I’m pretty sure the definition of a seafaring nation is one that produces officers and crews and ships that ply international waters, the Philippines just produces crew that answer to foreign officers and to man ships that s owned by foreign companies.

        But I do agree that the stuff of a seafaring nation is in the Philippines, but to affect that you do what Micha’s suggests, not by sending more seamen abroad.

        In addition to seamen, you also have retirees there from the US Navy (Filipinos who have joined via the Subic program). So the resource is there to make the Philippines into a true seafaring nation.

        Everything Micha has described is there, just needs policies to be set in place to affect said existing resources in order to play a national role.

        Further, to be a seafaring nation, the Philippines should already have ferries going back and forth, to and fro everywhere in the Philippines. Like Puget Sound but grander.

        • LCPL_X says:

          p.p.s. —–

          Many of the bargirls that I met there had mom’s who went to Singapore or HK as nannies. So the story usually goes, grandma was mean to them, dad too busy doing tagay, they dropped out of high school, thus ended up drinking watered down tequila with LCPL_X listening to Bon Jovi songs. Interspersed is that god awful Macarena song. That still gives me nightmares.

          My point, OFW isn’t really pink and rosy, it has a soundtrack.

          • The broader soundtrack is that of traditional Philippine society which was highly centered on family and small communities breaking down from the late 1960s onwards by all indications:

            1) urban migration to Manila from the 1960s had its winners and losers, with the winners, the urban middle class of the early 1970s, voting Marcos into power, who put drunken tambays (all they had was gin in those days no shabu yet) into openly displayed cages etc. – and it also had the middle classes moving more and more into gated communities as Martial Law had street crime reduced but burglaries increasing. UP Campus didn’t have a gate yet towards Balara but we did put grilles on our windows after several break-ins.

            2) greener pastures of migration starting with the generation of Sonny in the late 1960s to the mid-1980s to the United States. These were the urban professionals.

            3) an entire generation of the intellectual elite killed, forced abroad or corrupted during the time of Marcos. Ninotchka Rosca is one of the last of them, living in New York City. Many in my generation chose to play safe and make money, not rock the boat.

            4) of course the OFW phenomenon. Andrew Lim in an older article mentioned many young Marcos loyalists as being kids left to grow up in the Philippines by OFW parents, with little guidance and therefore looking for a virtual father in their fake idea of old Marcos.

            5) the Internet age together with the 1-4 further dislocated things for an entire generation IMO. The loss of guidance from traditional elder figures, the old middle class behind gated community walls and no longer respectable neighborhood figures to emulate, the intellectual elite of thought and opinion leaders, professors and teachers discredited, disoriented or decimated. No more compass in a complex world. Feels that way at times.

          • Life has a soundtrack. The one on land in the Philippines is a screech. The one overseas can be classical or torture chamber.

        • “the Philippines just produces crew” Well, on all ships there are more crew than pilots, but Filipinos pilot the ships, too. Naval, Biliran, has enclaves where they live, nice homes, as much as 259,000 pesos per month salary. So I think you’d have to document that statement of yours to move it from opinion to fact.

          • LCPL_X says:

            Officers of the Watch
            The Officers of the Watch are the highest ranking crew within the Deck Department. They all possess the certifications needed to occupy these positions and are also known as ‘licensed crew’.

            Chief Mate (First Officer/Chief Officer/First Mate)
            The Chief Mate is the second in command. As such, the Chief Mate is responsible for all deck operations and for applying the company’s procedures and regulations to both the equipment and the crew. The Chief Mate is also responsible for a Watch.

            Second Mate (Second Officer)
            The Second Mate is the ship’s navigator and is responsible for maintaining efficient navigation equipment. The Second Mate needs to update all the charts and publications and prepare the ship’s passage plans. The Second Mate is also responsible for a Watch.

            Third Mate (Third Officer)
            The Third Mate is the most junior officer in the Deck Department and accomplishes tasks as instructed by the Master and the Chief Mate. The Third Mate is also responsible for a Watch.

            Ratings, otherwise known as ‘unlicensed crew’, are not necessarily unlicensed. Though some positions require a specialized certificate, these crew members have not gone through officer training.

            Able-Bodied Seaman / Certified Rating
            The Able-Bodied Seaman takes on this position after having passed the Bridge Watch Rating (BWR) certificate. The Able-Bodied Seaman acts as the Helmsman or the Lookout and, during the unloading of the vessels, performs deck duties under the orders of the Officer of the Watch. The Able-Bodied Seaman also serves as a Watchkeeper.

            Ordinary Seaman (O/S) / Uncertified Rating
            The Ordinary Seaman (O/S) occupies the most junior position on the ship. The O/S works under the supervision of the Officer of the Watch and acts according to the Officer’s instructions.



            Joe, I’ve never met one, but sure I’ll concede there are Filipino maritime officers. Just never met one. Maybe Asian ships, or local int’l cargo ships there. I was more referring to Cruise ships and other Int’l cargo ships.

            I doubt they’d be from Maersk, Evergreen, etc. etc.

              • LCPL_X says:

                Thanks, Ireneo. Good to see Filipinos occupy those positions. This is what I was looking for from one of the links,

                Those guys would know the actual number of Filipinos as captains; officers; crew in cargo/tanker/cruise ships. Will research further. My hunch is still that officer to crew ration given all the maritime schools there, is still where those two folks you’ve shared, well they are pretty much unicorns.

              • Not totally the first but still pretty rare, surely, as their existence per se is newsworthy. We knew a Filipino captain who did Baltic Sea routes living in Bonn in the 1990s, but he was married to a German woman and quite settled.

                Just like one Filipino doctor we knew who had worked in Saudi in a high position was a Finnish citizen and had gotten hired from Europe with Euro pay grades and rank.

                Or even in the UN, where Filipinos above P3 (P=professionals) rank are rare. P4 and P5 people are usually Westerners, Northeast Asians or Indians. But like I mentioned there is this kind of food chain and it takes time to get perceived as fitting into senior positions.

            • Well, the US has a Filipino admiral, so I’m not accepting your guess.


              • LCPL_X says:

                Joe, you keep on merging Filipinos and Filipino-Americans, I am not talking about Filipino Americans at all, the point here is the Philippines. When I ‘m talking about Filipinos in the US I’ll make sure to point it out, otherwise it is Filipinos from Philippines.

                There have been Fil-Am generals as well.

              • Right。 The path sometimes takes generations。 We are talking about paths that start in the Philippines. In 40 years, there may be Chinese-Filipino admirals. There is nothing that separates a Filipino from success other than lack of opportunity.

              • LCPL_X says:

                Something tells me that the DNA for China then and now, doesn’t account for that reality , Joe. The U.S. back in Pres. Jefferson’s day, absolutely no Filipino admirals/generals; fastforward to now Filipino CEOs, admirals, generals, millionaires, etc. etc.

                All goes back to this notion of all men are equal, sure it had to be fought for; but China I don’t think will ever have non-Hans, because the definition for Chinese is very specific, Joe.

                But I’ll concede a Chinese company may have a Filipino master/captain, but that’s more than 40 years away, Joe (if at all !!! ). Again look up the definition of Chinese.

                As to masters/captains that Ireneo and karl have submitted, none are Chinese companies, if anything they are western European. So again , Western ideals (though in this case not necessarily American) play a huge role here.

                So that 40 years is highly unlikely, admiral here as a military rank; but substitute shipping company CEO, still highly unlikely. China is not the West.

          • Have two HS friends whose dads were Captain and another was an Engineer on international ships. 1M and 500K per month.

            A neighbor in the province 500K per month as a Captain.

            Hard dealing with generalizations because if I only look within my friends I would say all the people who work in ships I personally know the lowest salary is 500K.

            If instead, we look at it in terms of we are producing captains at the same rate we are producing PHDs then the issue is not the people but the environment.

            For a lot of people, a job is only as good as the salary it gives you. whereas if you view your job as a craft and you respect your craft you will stumble into being a captain if that is your thing or being a great whatever.

            The expectations of our environment rule most of us and it is hard (from my own demons) to go beyond that. Most people don’t dare.

      • Micha says:

        What’s with the fascination with Israel? Or why would you want Filipinos to go to Israel instead?

        • LCPL_X says:

          Opportunity, Micha.

          Yerida is what Gal Gadot did, plenty of folks like her.

          The Liberals there now want to counter act Hasidic rise.

          They’ll be open to Filipino permanent residence to citizenship.

          The time is now.

          • Micha says:

            A small country surrounded by hostile neighbors.

            What are the upside and the downside?

            • LCPL_X says:

              If you’re Filipino it should all be upside in Israel.

              I remember reading about Filipina nurses when the S hit the fan in Libya and the DFA offered to evac them out, and they were like No Thanks we’ll take our chances here in Libya, than the Philippines.

              My point is simply path to citizenship and/or permanent residency , Micha.

              Die here, die there, same die.

      • LCPL_X, correct, most Romanian migrants are in Western Europe which means two things:

        1) citizenship or nearly equal status as EU nationals. For instance all who are citizens of any State of the Union may vote in local elections if they have established permanent residency, there is a social security pact, meaning social security / pension payments incurred working legally anywhere in the EU are credited across the EU, meaning part of years credited to your pension so indeed there are migrants here who retire to their usually less expensive home countries and boost their economies as an effect – Romanians are now where Spanish and Portuguese were 3 decades ago, Italians 5 decades ago.

        2) Just 1-2 hours flight home so they get to see their families more often, families can visit and eventually kids do move if parents decide to stay in the host country.

        England was a special case as its labor market and job security is more like the USA, that in combination with open borders meant a lot of “Brooklyn” or “Queens” style jobs for “tourists”, massive illegal migration from Eastern Europe into low paid service sector. Jobless white (and some black) Englishmen saw these migrants as a threat and these guys where among those who voted for Brexit.

        First batch of manual laborers migrating from Romania went to Spain and Italy though. Language was easy for them as Romanian is related, the living language closest to Latin. That migration kind of stopped when those countries economies went down recently.

        >> most Romanians abroad vote for reformers though, because they have experienced the good life abroad as almost equals and want their country to become more like the advanced European countries, especially less corrupt, inefficient and all of that.

        >>> Which is different from the experience Filipinos even in Spain and Italy have of being underdogs, made to feel so very often that they aren’t really part of the host society. So they cluster in their own small groups and usually vote Duterte. Things are a bit different now in the more “woke” European countries like France, Germany, Netherlands and Scandinavia but it still isn’t quite like in the classic migration countries for Filipinos like USA, Canada, Australia, NZ where most old middle class that speaks good English went.

      • Karl Garcia says:

        There’s a team? I do not want to go to Israel.

        There is regulations, but fly by night schools have run for a few years before being padlocked.

        on Maritime schools recently the EU said we are becoming subpar, that is per DFA Sec Locsin.

          • Totally off topic, but informative. Dennis Uy’s purchase of Shell’s Malampaya stake was funded by foreign banks in New Zealand, Australia, and Germany. Not China. Not Philippine banks. Good article.


            • Karl Garcia says:

              I thought Uy is saddled with debt, what gives?

              • The article says lenders are looking strictly at the Malampaya project. They deem it good collateral I suspect. His other problems don’t affect that deal.

              • Karl Garcia says:

                Thanks Joe.

              • Karl Garcia says:

                The benefit of the doubt: A viable asset.

                “But perhaps the foreign banks’ nod reflects not just their confidence on DAU’s ability to meet his obligations, but more so on the viability of Malampaya.”

              • kasambahay says:

                banks po are in the habit of lending loans, three overseas banks in new zealand, australia and germany, a trio of banks with their own rules and differing interest rates suddenly in cahoot and acting as one, triad comes to my mind.

                so, uy aside, who orchestrated, stiched and unified the three loans and why secretive about name/s? if it’s multinational, surely their consortium got name and they have board of directors.

                I think, there is more below the surface than what we are made to believe, the deal done and signed in singapore, I am presuming, around the time inday sara was also in singapore on health reasons kuno.

              • Banks don’t reveal loan details so there is no ‘hiding’ going on. They also would not do illegal deals, but would be happy to have a Chinese guarantor on a loan, as they always seek multiple ways to assure payback. Banks often do consortiums on big loans, so nothing strange there. I doubt that Sara would be involved in a Uy financial transaction. She adds nothing. So I think this conspiracy theory is destined for the trash heap.

            • LCPL_X says:

              I don’t understand the hoopla surrounding Dennis Uy, Filipinos in general should be thankful that people like Dennis Uy can rise so far up, surpassing the oligarch/haciendero class there that’s entrenched, dislodge of Ayalas, Aranetas, Aboitiz, etc. etc. should be seen as improvement.

              • Lack of trust and wariness that he is working for China is the concern. China Telecom is his partner. He is instrumental in building New Clark City, a Chinese business/cultural hub. The Legislature may investigate the Malampaya purchase. So the wariness is real. I hope that clears up your lack of understanding. 🙂

              • LCPL_X says:

                That’s my point, Joe.

                With new players in then those that dominate (oligarchs) will have to up their game now because precisely of new players.

                So what’s the old players doing, just talking trash, or are they in position to better Philippine connection now?

                This is capitalism 101, more competition, better for customers. I’m sure the US will counter offer. All good for Filipino customers, no?

              • Yes, I’m pro-oligarch myself.

              • LCPL_X says:

                If the oligarchs and newcomers start acting like newcomers and want to offer the best goods and services to Filipinos then I’m pro-oligarch too! Like Candace Gotianuy , I think this is who Micha’s been talking about a Filipina with vision.

    • Thanks for the article. It raises the question of State obligation to care for citizens who have chosen to live or work elsewhere. To expect the nation to fund the complete welfare of those overseas seems overmuch to me. I’m essentially on OFW from America in the business of being retired. The US has an Embassy here, is helpful, but wouldn’t pay my way home or get me vaccinated. In choosing to leave the US, I accept certain risks and burdens. OFWs do, too. The Philippine government does a lot. Not everyone gets what they want so it is not perfect. And more is likely done in countries where there is OFW structure.

      • Recently Filipino migrants in different roles and countries have started using the Internet to create an entire universe of blogs and vlogs exchanging practical advice on work, life and papers in different places abroad.

        The picture some might still have of OFWs as helpless and ignorant victims is no longer as true as it used to be I think. It never really was and is much less now as the younger generations use the Internet to get a picture of things.

        A lot of savvy building up in that community which is changing with time. Two examples I have checked out in recent researches:

    • Hey, that’s great! I tell you, Filipinos have skills, they just don’t have a lot of opportunity.

      • Karl Garcia says:

        Yes, indeed.

        • LCPL_X says:

          Micha’s still correct, teams like them should be doing it for the Philippines. BUT…

          To karl’s idea of quality controlling training, I looked further into Univ. of Cebu, and it seems that news article above of its alumnus isn’t an exception but the norm for Univ. of Cebu.

          So maybe replicate what their doing right across Philippines.

          Now in her 14th year of running the University of Cebu Educational System as its chancellor, Gotianuy is in charge of the four campuses in the booming central Visayan island. She also runs a separate institution called the College of Technological Sciences.

          Candace Gotianuy’s drive to further improve the quality of the University of Cebu was stoked by her stint at Harvard University where she earned her master’s degree in education.

          What she learned from one of the world’s best universities would prove invaluable in her drive to change things back home, including implementing some painful reforms that required some new people to be brought in and some longtime staffers to be let go.

          According to her, however, once a leader starts the ball rolling, “change” and “reform” can easily gather momentum.

          “If you are passionate about quality and excellence, and you believe that this is the way your organization should be, you will eventually attract like-minded people, and let go of people whose visions are not aligned, and you will have a team that will change your system,” she says.

          Indeed, the small college started by her father in 1964 has grown in size, becoming a full-fledged university in 1992. All told, some 44,000 students study in the various schools she runs, studying maritime courses, information technology, nursing and, more recently, engineering.

          “We’re one of the biggest private universities in the country,” she states. “But I want quality, more than the numbers. We had to invest in facilities and in people.” (Sunstar)

          • Karl Garcia says:

            We need a transformative leader,not all talk and promises and not the likes of Duterte who is full of hot-air from his behind.
            Speaking of transformation.


            • LCPL_X says:

              I agree.

              Candace Gotianuy looks like she’s taking something left to her by her father, and making truly transformational of it. That’s just the Univ. of Cebu group of schools. If you expand to the national level, which is the link above, if there’s demand there’s room for negotiation, karl.

              But the captains that Ireneo has shared; your link on Mr. Morano; and Joe’s neighbors who are maritime officers. Not to take away from their achievements, but my hunch is all those Filipinos will not be on par with their European counter parts. Same to superior skills, but pay (I gotta feeling) will not be on the same level.

              For example, Mr. Moreno’s award… did that translate to a pay increase. etc. etc.

              So I think Atty. Pimentel (your shared link) is echoing Micha’s sentiments of keeping it inhouse, but I think she’s also calling for parity there. How to do that, i dunno, as salaries unless its the public sector are kept hidden. Maybe Joe or chemp can comment on it.

              But part of maritime education should be teaching these future professionals what European colleagues are making, and to strive for parity. 1st world pay for 1st world work; no 3rd world pay. I’m sure you’ll agree this would add to Atty. Pimentel’s vision.

              • I was reading today that Filipinos in the US exceed American averages in educational achievement and average salary. So I think your hunches may be wrong. I repeat my observation that the only thing holding Filipinos back is lack of opportunity, not some inherent laggardness as you seem to imply. Deeply ingrained corruption and favoritism leads to the poor performance in-country.

              • LCPL_X says:

                Joe, I don’t doubt that. In the US and other English speaking nations, plus Western Europe. I think Filipinos who have immigrated here and to those places specifically will do very well.

                But specific to the maritime industry…

                Though I still stand by my hunch that less officers vs. more crew , and gian provided very good input here, I am still researching as to the actual statistics.

                gian‘s correct, if his experience is of those 3 examples, then its a valid observation, and he is correct if more Filipnos match his experience then maybe more Filipinos will venture out to that level as a whole.

                And my other hunch of lower pay in comparison may or may not be related to the first hunch. sure its a labor issue…

                But I ‘m gonna say that gian‘s “1M to 500K per month” (i believe you’ve mention similar salary in Naval, Biliran) will be pennies to the dollar when compared to European captains.

                Again, I stress I’m not doubting Filipinos skills here, maybe training as karl has also indicated but thats an easy fix, my point is parity in this particular field. Other fields may also apply like engineering and design (like karl’s article on Mr. Moreno), but i cannot form a hunch there.

                But gian brings up another good issue. And that’s the PhD population in the Philippines, like Ireneo’s Dr. Abinales. I don’t know academia (so I hope Ireneo can chime in here), but I remember every position in state colleges/universities there were all like PhDs.

                where a head office administrator for example would have a PhD. lots of PhDs.

                In which the pecking order in this sea of PhDs is if one has gone abroad to either complete his/her Phd or been part of some Western nation’s scholar program. For example, Dr. Candace Gotienuy ‘s having gone to Harvard, her PhD would’ve come direct from her father’s personal funds so a totally different matter.

                Dr. Abinales for example (Ireneo’s link) teaches now in University of Hawaii, having obtained his PhD in some American college.

                So with all the PhDs the Philippines has, how many can do what Dr. Abinales has done. that’s one question and another related to the pay parity is would they be paid the same as their American or Western EU or Australian colleagues. or

                would it be in some form of say Rhodes, Fulbright or whatever scholar program specific to PhDs.

                My point here, is that even in the PhD realm (my tangential hunch here based on gian‘s commentary above), there exists this issue of parity. And the only solution is Micha’s. <<< this is where I'm driving at.

              • The matter of Filipino PhDs is really close to home for me, literally. Used to be the ONLY PhD that mattered was one gotten abroad, usually in the USA.

                American colonial period had the “pensionados” sent to the USA for education. Postwar it was Fulbright scholarships and similar, also to the USA.

                One of my godfathers, a UP history professor, liked to tell how he studied in Florida I think in the 1960s and was classified as “black”. Another history professor whose kids I grew up with was in Michigan, more liberal place, and married an American woman, a former Peace Corps volunteer. Sue Evangelista is BTW mentioned in Cha’s old article “Tito Sotto is not a woman”, she and her daughter Amy have an initiative for reproductive health.

                In that generation’s time hardly any Filipino got to stay in the USA as a professor. Plenty of UP Colleges had American Deans until the 1950s or so. The Filipinos who came back to UP pushed the last Americans there aside and got the first UP PhD programs started. The UP PhD programs are extremely hard, probably one reason was to show that it wasn’t much easier than in the USA. One should IMO also see UP nationalism as a product of the process of postwar Filipinization. Foreign-trained Filipinos saying move over to Yanks.

                Filipinos seriously I think only started getting US academic posts from the 1970s onwards, usually in subjects related to the Philippines. Pre-1970s was pre-civil rights.

                The newer conflict is Filipino-based academics calling Filipinos who have tenure in the USA, Australia etc. “compradors” aka sellouts. Local UP PhDs have also spread and in turn created PhD programs in the major Philippine universities.

                In fact someone with a foreign PhD who isn’t from an existing academic clique at UP, Ateneo or La Salle may have a hard time finding a place coming home. Could be one reason why the Dra. from Cebu has her private university.

                Academic cliques in the Philippines often guard their turfs as viciously or worse than political groupings there. There is for instance the story of Leloy Claudio who was viciously mobbed out of Ateneo and La Salle – he is back in the USA now.

                It is a totally different world than that of “ordinary workers” no matter how qualified. Especially UP where professors (and those students who are in dormitories) live on campus and their kids get to study there for free, often become professors too. Know lots of fellow professor’s kids from elementary school who are also married to professor’s kids and are professors themselves, living in the same UP faculty houses they grew up in. That might have been my life too but I found it too inbred and too inward-focused.

              • LCPL_X says:

                Ireneo, thanks this is good insight.

                Question, do you know of any Philippine PhD, whether UP/Ateneo/La Salle, etc. etc. who are teaching at Western universities, but not Filipino specific subjects, like Quantum physics, or any other hard sciences, or if social science, or lib arts, but separate from Philippine subjects?

              • There is exactly one I know of, Jude Thaddeus Socrates who is math prof at CalTech.

                Liza Virata, the daughter of Marcos’s PM Virata, is a Chem PhD and works at US FDA.

                Dr. Mahar Lagmay of Project NOAH went to Cambridge but went back to work at U.P.

                Dr. Gideon Lasco studied medical anthropology in Holland but also is back in PH.

                There is a Filipina international law professor in Bremen, Germany who was at UNCLOS.

                Dr. Amador Muriel (Physics, NYC) never got tenure and founded a computer firm in NYC – it did help a bit that his wife was (both are retired now) an M.D. earning good money.

                Dr. Eduardo Mendoza (long retired too) who studied Math in Bonn never got tenure in Germany either, his career was in the Munich IT industry, first at BMW-owned Softlab then at Microsoft Germany where he made it up to head of Consulting for Europe or similar.

                Don’t know about those around 30-40 but I doubt there are that many, Giancarlo might know more about that age group.

              • The FB page Filipino Scientists feature Filipino Scientists mostly getting PHDs abroad my batch mates in HS we have probably 30 PHDs in my batch all in science most of them abroad. I know 4 batchmates who were recruited in foreign universities by promise of tenure and their own lab.

                One of my batchmates who was recruited

              • sorry was to quick to reply. My reply was wrong. most probably all of those 30 PHDs studied undergraduate in the Philippines but studied PHD in foreign universities. Apologies.

              • Same for my reply as all my examples did their PhDs abroad.

                Most came from UP of course, did their Bachelors there.

              • similar cohorts really just different batches

              • More people in your batch getting tenure abroad than in mine though.

                And significantly more than in the generation now retired.

              • in our batch only one studied overseas for their undergrad. for the younger batches i believe that number is around 20 to 60 now.

              • LCPL_X says:

                Okay, so to clarify those above examples are all foreign univ. PhDs then. Whereas Filipino univ. PhDs serve more local domestic positions???

                I think Pullman’s HIS DARK MATERIALS series would probably get more Filipinos to go out and venture to teaching positions abroad instead of the local waters. its like Harry Potter/Narnia but for academia. I think its about Quantum physics, would like to see more Filipinos tackle this.

                Into this wild abyss,
                The womb of nature and perhaps her grave,
                Of neither sea, nor shore, nor air, nor fire,
                But all these in their pregnant causes mixed
                Confusedly, and which thus must ever fight,
                Unless the almighty maker them ordain
                His dark materials to create more worlds,
                Into this wild abyss the wary fiend
                Stood on the brink of hell and look a while,
                Pondering his voyage…

                –John Milton, Paradise Lost, Book II

              • It seems that DOST just like the DFA is one of the most professional and modern government departments in the Philippines.

                It did manage to get a number of important projects off the ground like the first Philippine microsatellite, the first Filipino-built train etc. during PNoys time.

                How good the follow through on all that has been recently I am not updated.

                Though UP Genomics has done some important research not only on Covid recently but over the years on human migration including evidence that supports “Out of Taiwan”.

                What the Ayala-funded places in UP are doing as of now I am not too updated either.

              • chemrock says:

                Filipinos generally are interested in and more knowledgeable in the National Arts Award and or every punch that Pacquaio threw than the giants of science in PH. Who can remember Dr. Gavino Trono, Dr. Angel Alcala, Dr. Ramon Barba, and Dr. Edgardo Gomez, the 4 PhD awardees of National Scientists in 2014 from Pnoy?

                There are brains in the country but I think there is lacking a good ecosystem that can harness the talents to move from pure sciences to the applied realm and commercialisation.

              • LCPL_X says:

                Agree w/ chemp here. The proclivities of Filipinos to awards (and dressing up) is insane, turn that into a bonus or a salary increase, develop instead to turn these hard earned skills into monetary value.

                Because an award a gift is akin to those AA 30, 60, 90 day coins. Corporations are mean entities man, they’ll fluff you up but still secure their bottom line. And this is my point here, Filipinos need to not be comfy on the bottom.

                karl’s wiki CNN link to Filipinos going to China, well that’s already coming to light, cheap labor caregivers to China, why raise hell about South China sea, when Filipinos have already surrendered to China for low wages.

                See how its all connected.

                Whereas Micha’s vision is key. Everything we’ve discussed when viewed from the lense of parity, its all actually cheap labor.

              • sonny says:

                Two PhD’s I follow:

                Reinabelle Reyes –

                Fr. Nicanor Austriaco, OP (Dominican) –

              • Karl Garcia says:

                There is less than 20k Filipinos in the Mainland, the 400 k plus is divided between HK and TW, who themselves are not giving in to China’s ways. Why do you keep advising that we give up the WPS?

      • kasambahay says:

        joeam’s ‘Filipinos have skills, they just don’t have a lot of opportunity.’ begging you pardon po, sometimes kasi filipinos just dont know how to present themselves and grab opportunities, too modest some of them and many refrained from making killer presentation of what they have accomplished and achieved so far.

        during job interview, most applicants have similar qualifications but so vastly different in pace, tone and presentation. I once served food and drinks at such an event and was able to watch and see and much to my horror, the filipino contingent has much to catch up. I could have given them tips, but since they looked down on me, dressed in the humble black and white of catering service, I passed the tray of finger foods, smiled and kept quiet.

        competition for the top job is fierce, the opportunity is there and they have 30minutes to make a killing, to impress and to make it their own. and sometimes, they’re ask to come to 2nd and 3rd interview, most filipinos rarely make to the 3rd.

        p.s. it was about the whistle, apparently those most at sea, knows all about the whistle. one applicant made the whistle and ask to come onboard and sit for interview. he turned heads and broke the ice. sounds corny, but he got there.

        • Maybe so. I don’t get the sense that Filipinos are job-hoppers though. More like work diligently, get recognized, move up. That was my path. Never interviewed for the job. Hired at the bottom. Did good work. Came out rather uppish. But, yes, I can imagine job interviews would be awkward. Still, a lot of BPO people got hired. I dunno. . .

  11. chemrock says:

    Philippines is loosing out in many areas in the new e-commerce world. This is very obvious when the most famous name in the tech world in Philippines is associated with political progaganda. I’m of course referring to Nic Gabunada. Where are the geeks pushing the envelopes, seeding new companies and creating jobs?

    Of course we can’t expect to have an e-Bays, Amazons, Ali-Babas or Tencents in PH. But in many other countries with a sizeable population, they all have their own successful local e-commerce platforms. Lazada and Shoppee are highly successful and have sizeable markets in Philippnes. When I was in PH I thought all along there are Filipinos. I was actually totally surprised to learn later they are Singapore entities!

    In the ride hailing business, there is Uber and Grab. Again, surprised that Grab is Singaporean.

    What happened to you Philippines? Even Indonesia has their Tokopedia and GoJek.

    • LCPL_X says:

      8 chan was hosted in the Philippines. Though not e-commerce, one can say technically the Philippines is champion of freedom of speech. Sorta.

    • I do note there are some electronic payments systems, home grown, emerging in the Philippines. G-Cash is perhaps most notable. They arise out of ‘consumerism’ which is the most advanced industry in the Philippines.

    • Chempo we have 3 Unicorns in the Blockchain world. The Venus Protocol with is powering the Binance Smart Chain is led and founded by a Pinoy. These are not classic unicorns because this is not by valuation rather they have over 1B USD Assets Under Management.

      • we are also pretty much in the tick of the NFT world

        • LCPL_X says:

          Good to see Filipinos in cryptocurrency, with China divesting from it, I hope this is one way the Philippines can diverge from China. But if the Philippines goes with Chinese internet/telecom then its moot.

          But if I remember correctly, chempo’s anti crypto, gian. thanks by the way, i’d never heard of this Venus protocol, and just know of Gemini. I gotta Google how they differ.

      • chemrock says:

        Thks Gian.

        I know Revolution Pinecrafted and Micab fizzled out.


        Venus Protocol is not crypto per se. It’s a financial app that sits on top of other cryptos. I tried reading it’s white paper and I’m lost! I get the gist of it, but the details are bewildering to me. Anyway, if anything, Ali Baba’s Ant IPO fiasco tells us something. No government will let an unregulated platform run around with a financial application for much too long. The more the model gets closer to quasi banking, the sooner the government will close in.

        But technology and idea wise, Venus Protocol is pretty fascinating. Whether it can be a sustainable operation, it’s not easy to see.

        • LCPL_X says:

          I’m very suspicious of the Winklevoss twins, because of what you’ve just said on it, chemp.

          Crypto should be crypto, no crypto to dollar (or peso) application, otherwise it water downs what crypto is attempting to do. Buy goods/services with it, the value inherent to it will magically appear once more people get involve and like Jesus, believe in it. Faith based.

          otherwise, if tied to fiat money (per Micha’s definition via MMT), you’ll sink two ships at once. Thus have to be separate. I like the fact that China’s divested from it, so the experiment can proceed without so much scaling.

          daraja, daraja as Arabs like to say, step by step, little increments. No big steps should be the mantra for crypto.

          • chemrock says:

            No crypto is serving the function it was intended, ie as a medium of exchange for peer to peer transaction in the market place of goods and services. Period. They have all become casino chips. It is also the perfect mechanism for laundering ill gotten money from scams, ransomwares, terrorism financing, and illicit trades. There is no economics argument for cryptos.

            I have completed 4 videos on Bitcoin which I shall be hosting on youtube shortly. Got a bit of copyright issues to sort out. Will be published soon. It’s my humble and really unprofessional work as far as videos go, but I think a fairly decent primer without the hypes and noises. It covers what is Bitcoin and how it works, the cryptology in Bitcoin and mining, some Bitcoin issues and whether it will replace central bank currency, and lastly the 9 fallacies of Bitcoins.

          • Micha says:


            Crypto is the province of criminals. It won’t be long before governments around the world begin cracking on the shit coin bubble. I think both China and Russia already started.

            Apart from the fact that its not ever going to achieve universal usage, there’s also the non-functionality of reverse transaction.




            • Three links sends a comment to moderation.

              • LCPL_X says:


                I’m happy to finally see you and chempo agree on something!!! LOL!

                Isn’t fiat money also the province of criminals? in prison they use cigarettes and instant noodles.

                But I agree with you gov’t will crack down on it; but just as China & Russia cannot really shut down the internet, so too crypto. The US is still figuring out what to do, since its not China and Russia.

                The best way to not shut it down, because you know freedoms and human rights and all that crap, is to simply sabotage it, walks in the Winklevoss twins, et al. But there’s ways to remain anonymous.


                Get a prepaid credit card and buy anonymously on Localbitcoins and Paxful. Then get a hot (internet connected) or cold (not connected to internet, can be a piece a paper or your memory) wallet.


                Stay clear from these exchanges like Gemini, they require ID , have your own wallet. Theoretically, you can store your bitcoins in your wallet, then when comes time to pay the rent or bills or groceries, go back to Localbitcoins and Paxful, trade for whatever currency you need and voila!

                Otherwise , if you live in a city that have plenty of people and businesses that accept bitcoin no need to trade bitcoins for dollars/etc. thus peer-to-peer transaction.

              • LCPL_X says:

                p.s.— there’s the speculation/investment in exchanges; and the actual usage of bitcoins. I’m sharing actual usage, you’re commenting on speculation and frauds therein.

              • Micha says:


                The only reason why our friend chempo doesn’t like crypto is because his bank cannot make loans denominated in Bitcoins.

              • LCPL_X says:

                But MMT folks should be for crypto right? As means to further undermine folks like chempo.

                So what gives, Micha? monetary sovereignty only w/out the gov’t. that’s essentially what crypto is.

              • Micha says:


                What is sovereignty without a government?

                In the old days, the sovereign is called a king. In our modern supposedly democratic world, the sovereign is the duly constituted gov’t with a monopoly on the legal use of persuasive force.

                The value of fiat currency solely rest on the structure of power and authority of the sovereign state.

                Crypto has none of that.

                The only way to undermine folks like chempo is to make banking public and wrest the ability of issuing money from private bankers. President Andrew Jackson tried to do exactly that and they plotted to kill him.

              • LCPL_X says:

                Modern democracy = will of the people = sovereign ; meaning the highest power is not gov’t but what that gov’t represents, and in modern democracy it is the will of the people.

                Thus with peer- to -peer transaction, you have the will of the people using money as they see fit, but without gov’t. Thus monetary sovereignty w/ out gov’t.

                Jesus would’ve been totally into crypto currency, Micha, and you know it.

              • Micha says:


                Imagine a world where even Jesus is using crypto. Who is going to settle disputes (as they are bound to happen) in our everyday trade and commerce?

              • LCPL_X says:

                The disputes won’t be with the blockchain per se (I guess once quantum computing comes online then the crypto in crypto currency will shift, that part I don’t know).

                But blockchain covers the dispute portion; as to hacking etc. etc. Like for example Winklevoss twins via their Gemini would know your crypto info , thus that kinda dispute is already called fraud and or theft or some sort of financial crime. But…

                I don’t see any dispute based on the crypto and the currency itself, Micha. Because blockchain.

              • Micha says:

                And therein lies the many contradictions of crypto. It’s supposed to be decentralized, deregulated, and public but the whole system, by its nature, cannot be any of these.

                “Something truly based on blockchain technology should be public, decentralized, permissionless, and trustless. But looking at DLT and corporate blockchain experiments, almost all of them are private, centralized and permissioned—because a small group of people has the ability to validate transactions—and most are authenticated by a trusted institution. And even among these projects, few have actually worked. One study looking at 43 applications of blockchain technologies in the non-profit sphere for reasons such as banking the unbanked, giving IDs to refugees, and transferring remittances found that zero actually worked.”

                “…the crypto ecosystem is not decentralized because an oligopoly of miners essentially controls about 70-80% of Bitcoin and Ether mining… and 99% of all crypto transactions occur on centralized exchanges.”

                “What is “Bitcoin” without the ability to convert it to fiat currency? What is it that you actually own? Who wants Bitcoin if it can’t be converted to dollars (or euros or yen or yuan or something else that can be used to settle trade deals or tax obligations)? Presumably nobody.”


              • LCPL_X says:

                Therein lies the issue with the Vinklewoss twins, Micha.

                And I agree, it is a very big issue. Hence people should either get their bitcoin by mining themselves or buy direct from miners, or do services for them (even sexual) to get bitcoins.

                But stay clear away from the Vinklewoss twins et al. They are there to sabotage.

                The disputes stemming from crypto /blockchain by itself w/out the 3rd parties is pretty strong; even Dogecoin– whose only difference to Bitcoin (and similar concepts currencies) is that there is no cap, but they do have algorithms to control said inflation based on their concept.

                So I’m not as convinced re Dogecoin (becuz of this no cap).

                But your issue is one of people, and seems easily fixed (by not going with 3rd parties, and simply procuring bitcoins on your own, and keeping them in wallets of your choosing). Goes back to daraja daraja I said above.

              • LCPL_X says:

                Think of the Winklevosses as Myspace in the early 2000s. Sure everyone thought that the pinnacle of social network, but it wasn’t.

            • LCPL_X says:


              That’s a good primer on this.

              “What is “Bitcoin” without the ability to convert it to fiat currency? What is it that you actually own? Who wants Bitcoin if it can’t be converted to dollars (or euros or yen or yuan or something else that can be used to settle trade deals or tax obligations)? Presumably nobody.”

              that’s a false presumption, Micha.

              Just as I could care less if my dollars convert to yens or some other items or totems, Bitcoin doesn’t necessarily have to need conversion to fiat. All i’m interested in is if others wanna use Bitcoin with me. its intrinsic value and usefulness is key, thru time and space.

              • Micha says:

                As a stand alone unit of “money” bitcoin is worth less than crap. It has zero intrinsic value and this whole bitcoin bubble is a gigantic scam.

                One of the wild claims by its developer(s) is that it is supposed to be a hedge on the instability of fiat money. And yet, when China banned bitcoin trading back in 2018 (good for them) its value nosedived by over 80%. There were in fact several instances when its value fluctuated wildly. And did you noticed why its value is always measured in dollars? That alone gives you a clue that it can never – ever – replace state issued fiat currency.

                And here’s the thing that will put to rest any more bitcoin delusion : if tomorrow President Biden, thru the advice of the Fed, will also ban bitcoin trading, as China did, because it causes, among other things, disruption and instability in our present monetary system, bitcoin’s value will be worth less than shit.

                And President Biden’s order will be enforced by the FBI, the police, and if needed, maybe an F-15 fly by on a bitcoin mining headquarters although I think that is going to be an overkill. But you do get the idea, right?

              • LCPL_X says:

                That’s my point, Micha. Why would the Fed be so scared of Bitcoin that it needs to do that.

                And as you know Americans will flock to mining if the Fed does issue this order, you know because we’re Americans. So you’re wrong.

                As a matter of fact , since China made Bitcoin mining illegal, a bunch of home operations, meaning 20 year olds with 10 GPUs in their mom’s basement are thinking mining’s profitable again.

                No the Fed’s not gonna attempt to stop Bitcoin, it will attempt to sabotage it thru very complex means, but to stop it is akin to saying they’re gonna stop Napster, remember Napster?

                Blockchain’s out of the box, no one can stop it.

                But remember your arguments against it is about the speculation of it, you’ve not succeeded in arguing against its efficacy, Micha. Sure I agree it’s value is associated with the dollar, that’s becuz its 10-12 years old only and people need to conceptualize its possibilities,

                until then they’ll have to swim parallel to shore, which is the dollar. The more it will be use, the more confidence it will earn.

                Focus your arguments against, in its use, not the speculation (the speculation is the most forgivable part of Bitcoin, becuz its temporary).

                Here’s 2 of 4 points shared by gian above from Stonebridge Capital:

                1) Salability across time

                Gold has been a reliable store of value because of its scarcity and historically low annual supply growth of only 1-2%/year. There has never been a “gold hyperinflation.” Indeed, gold has held its value over the centuries, while hundreds of other monies have come and gone. However, gold’s supply is not impervious to its demand. If, hypothetically, gold went to $100,000/oz tomorrow (up more than 50x overnight), we can be sure enormous resources would immediately shift to gold mining, and the miners would find some way, somehow, to accelerate its supply growth, driving its value down.

                In contrast, there will only ever be 21 million Bitcoin. Bitcoin’s annual supply growth, which asymptotically approaches zero over time, is now down to about 1%, on par with the historical annual growth in the supply of gold. While far from perfect, gold is Bitcoin’s closest real-world analogy. However, the ultimate supply of Bitcoin is fundamentally limited by the design of the protocol itself and cannot be increased regardless of its value or the level of demand. Bitcoin is the first store of value in history for which its supply is entirely unaffected by increased demand. From this perspective, Bitcoin is better at being gold than gold – it’s even more salable across time.

                2) Salability across space

                As we moved beyond traveling by foot and horse, beyond the development of affordable commercial air travel, and then, especially, beyond the internet’s Cambrian-like explosion of network power, gold’s low spatial salability became an acute flaw even the most ardent “goldbugs” miss. Gold is simply hard to transport. This is where USGPM, or the Fiat Standard in general, shines. Though fiat’s periodic, human-nature-induced hyperinflations made it a huge step backward in terms of salability across time, it was a substantial leap forward in terms of salability across space.

                However, contrary to common misconception, Bitcoin moves much faster across space than fiat, increasing our capacity for long-distance international settlement by about 500,000 transactions a day, and completing that settlement in about an hour, rather than the current state-of-the-art 3-5 days, or longer, for final international fiat settlement. Bitcoin’s protocol and network topology renders national borders irrelevant, which is especially empowering to the world’s most vulnerable and unprepared for fiat hyperinflations (think: Venezuela, Turkey, Lebanon today).

                Even within a country like ours, do not confuse the speed of your Visa payment with its final settlement. No settlement occurs when you buy your coffee at Starbucks. Rather, your bank and Starbucks’ bank generally settle 2-3 days later, with each bank taking credit risk to the other along the way, with rare, but occasionally disastrous results. Bitcoin safely settles about every hour and, as a bearer instrument, credit risk is not a concept. From this perspective, Bitcoin is better at being fiat than fiat – it’s even more salable across space and, because it’s not debt like fiat, has no credit risk.

              • Micha says:


                1.Is Jerome Powell scared of bitcoin? I don’t think so. The fact that it tolerated its existence for far too long suggests it might only be seeing it as a 2 bit pretender.

                2. By comparing bitcoin to gold, you are only digging its grave even deeper. Now I am not a gold bug by any stretch, but gold at least has way more intrinsic value. Because of its physical property of being extremely malleable you can fashion it in all forms jewelries or even make a golden bathtub or golden arinola.. It is also an excellent conductor of electricity, so there’s actually minute quantities of gold dust in the microchips of your cellphones and computers.

                3. What are bitcoin’s physical properties? Nothing. It has zero intrinsic value. It’s a cryptographic hocus egged on by nothing more than a libertarian delusion.

              • LCPL_X says:

                1. No one should be scared of Bitcoin is my point, Micha. Just do research on it, but focus on the peer to peer aspect not the speculation of exchanges. The beauty of exchanges I must say is that its getting people into it, once they find out that Hey I can do this direct myself w/out the middle man, BOOM they’ve understood Bitcoin! More people is better, but more informed people is awesome. That will subvert middlemen. There will come a time, when people don’t use these exchanges.

                Either the exchange offer a different service, or it disappears.

                2. As for gold, that was analogy. Of course Gold as element is valuable now techwise, but back then at the beginning we humans just thought it was bright and shiny, yes malleable was probably what brought it value initially. But it was also its rarity. That’s why that asteroid made of gold if brought back to earth, would decrease its value, too much of it. That’s the analogy Strone Ridge (sorry not Stonebridge) was going for.

                3. Value has no physical property, Micha. Take that dollar you have in your wallet, you’re correct the US gov’t backs that piece of paper (actually cloth) but what is its value, nothing a tissue paper at least has intrinsic value you can blow your nose or wipe your butt, try doing that with paper currency, especially those plastic ones like australia’s. Messy.

                But you think its valuable because you have faith in the US gov’t. So same here, people have faith in the blockchain, either youre thinking Dogecoin is good because its a newer blockchain algorithm, (I don’t know the computer science aspect of all this), or Bitcoin because its been around more, thus the concept of peerage/pedigree comes too play. That you can track where each bitcoin has been transacted.

                So don’t look at the bitcoin look at the cryptography behind it, Micha. The value of something here people will come to value from use— again I’m telling you the speculation of all this is not the way to argue against Bitcoin. its fleeting. Temporary.

                Focus on why people use fiat. it’s faith right? Just faith. there’s nothing really backing it. But if enough people believe in it, BOOM its valuable.

                chempo = ledger; micha = gov’t ; LCpl_X = blockchain , blockchain has both qualities of the ledger and gov’t. it keeps track and is deserving of your faith, why? because peer to peer, no need for middleman. bankers and representatives are middlemen. Thus better.

              • Micha says:

                Faith in US government and faith in US dollar is NOT the same. Stop conflating the two.

                The infrastructure of the US government has a physical existence. Picture the US capitol, the White House, the FRB building, the Supreme Court building, the Pentagon etc.

                The faith part in the “faith and credit of the US government” suggest that the we the people entrust this whole system of governance that have been assembled to work for the general good and well-being of all citizens – or at least that’s the ideal of our democratic value and narrative.

                Therefore, we are willing to submit to its fiat declaration that our money system will be based on the US dollar.

                And that, my dear, is how we get to use this dollar system for over two centuries now.


                If your goal is to really push your beloved bitcoin for universal acceptance, your strategy should involve undermining the entire system and infrastructure of the US government and hope for the state to wither away.

                Then, and only then, will you be able to achieve your libertarian nirvana where bitcoins are used for all trade and commerce.

                Are you prepared to go that route?

              • LCPL_X says:

                2 centuries, sure.

                But it had to start at day 1 , correct? And Bitcoin is just 12 years old, did everyone believe in the US gov’t and US dollar in 1788? Alexander Hamilton our 1st Puerto Rican President wasn’t even Sec. of Treasury yet.

                As for your false dichotomy, Micha, its not either or; just as one can be Pro-Trump and Pro-Bernie, you only need commonality. Thus Bitcoin and US dollar can co-exist, but yes you are correct, eventually…

                people will diverge. Think of Cebu when Magellan came by, there’s a market there where I got all my cheap DVDs from Badjaos, called Carbon market; I’m sure that market has been around since Datu Humabon’s time,

                that’s 500 years! 5 centuries, the market still stands and continuous even with malls around now.

                And think about all the different currencies that have been used since Magellan landed there, til now. Boggles the mind. Now there’s Bitcoin, and I’m sure people will just find it useful, the way they found changing from Spanish to American, and to Filipino, etc.

                There’s three paths now, US dollar, China or Bitcoin. or chempo’s; Micha’s ; LCpl_X’s. An economy can function with all 3 at the same time. but one will dominate, then another Cambrian age will occur, again consolidation, over and over again…

                It’s called progress, Micha. Think of money as technology, and you’ll understand that progress is just simply part of it.

                p.s. Micha your best argument against bitcoin is its blockchain but that would require you to understand cryptography and computer science, which I’m sure we’re both not qualified. Thus, if you understand money as technology, then people I’m sure will just jump on over to quantum cryptography.

              • LCPL_X says:


                And you’ve already indicated President Andrew Jackson’s part in all this, all the rubbing and tugging. Thus as I’ve already indicated people buying into all this is really arbitrary, Micha. Its power isn’t in all the symbols you’ve listed but in people’s buy in. And all that is really arbitrary. Thus Bitcoin is saying its better than gold and fiat. And as you’ve seen, there ‘s really no argument against that proposition, Micha. For it is.

              • LCPL_X says:

                Think about it, Micha.

                You have authority when you speak here, and you’re anonymous. We don’t know your profession or training. But we all listen when you talk MMT. Why? because time and again you’ve proven that you’re right.

                That’s essentially what blockchain is. You take gold or fiat, and there’s no peerage/pedigree process like that. Gold relies on rarity; fiat relies on as you’ve indicated old buildings that represent a false sense of continuance.

                Thus weight with Bitcoin is due to blockchain, similar to your weight

                here, as Micha the MMT expert.

              • Micha says:

                No sir, one government, one state, one money system.

                If you are not prepared to go the route of destroying the current system and structure of US government so you could have your crypto universe, then bitcoin and the people who push for bitcoin are nothing more than scammers and frauds.

                Personally, I am all for a ban on bitcoin trading, as China did, and prosecute all involved in it for treason.

                That much is clear.

    • kasambahay says:

      crypto missing in action? much like his attendance at work and now he’s having verbal stoush with good friend pia cayetano re more funding for olympic committee.

      • Karl Garcia says:

        Cayetano walked out and never returned, ut she denied she was missing in action. Paquiao’s name was used in endorsing bitcoin revolution.
        A scam.

        • kasambahay says:

          the financial planner I’ve a chat with over a cup of weak coffee that could do with a bit of suntory, has said the same thing and opined bitcoin is a scam and if I want to lose money to go right ahead and invest on bitcoins. I can afford to lose a bit of money but not to scammers, so I give bitcoin a miss and donate to my fave charity, the cancer fund.

          here’s hoping pacman was smart to ask for shares in bitcoin in return for his endorsement and in a way, invest. then, he would know how sound or unsound his investment is.

  12. Karl Garcia says:

    Based on records from the Philippine Department of Foreign Affairs, there were about 12,254 overseas Filipinos in mainland China. Most of them live in cities such as Beijing (2,492), Chongqing (164), Guangzhou (4,564), Shanghai (4,264) and Xiamen (7,707).[3

  13. Karl Garcia says:

    I thought there was a shortage?
    2 million about to be wasted and binned in HK plus the 2 million about to expire in PH.

    • Karl Garcia says:

      It is just like solving world hunger, with lots of food waste statistics too boot.

      • kasambahay says:

        there maybe shortage of good vaccines, it is much on high demand, but glut of unwanted vaccines that comes with no paperwork. taiwan refused to accept sinovac and some countries have sinovac put on storage coz of sinovac’s failure to provide much needed paperwork and corresponding data. receiving countries have to do their own preliminary research and testing, both expensive and time consuming.

        when vaccines arrived, there ought to be accompanying paperwork detailing not just contents of the vaccines but also results of any trials already done, so when we do our own follow up testings, we can compare our data with the the baseline data that comes with the vaccines, and note any discrepancies. we can then make informed decision and take risks when necessary. vaccinees can then be assured of safety and indemnified for extreme adverse reaction.

        • kasambahay says:

          p.s. there has been talk among medical staff that the needles accompanying chinese vaccines have dislodged and stayed in vaccinees’ arm. also, there have been needle stick injuries among nurses, trying to gouged out the needles embedded.

        • Karl Garcia says:

          thanks for inputs

  14. Karl Garcia says:

    Chempo mentioned some names of the National Scientists, here are more.

  15. Karl Garcia says:

    There were commenters here that insist on defending China’s intellectual property, I do not know what they are made to believe, but it is documented that they pirated many stuff.

    • kasambahay says:

      sometimes countries offered scholarships and phds to deserving foreign students and free accommodation is sometimes included. there is contract though like must have higher than average tests score each time, must not be absent from class for more than two days without medical cert, must have no criminal record and not be member of any extreme orgs, etc. upon successful completion of phd, must work for certain companies and firms for 2yrs.

      only those that meet criteria are accepted and considering that our students are way below standard and having bombed at pisa, the international test for students, it is not surprising our current batch of students rarely attract academic attention.

      • Karl Garcia says:


      • Karl Garcia says:

        It is harder to get a phd here because research materials are scarce and scant.

        • The massive digitalization of research material nowadays – including a lot of major libraries and archives – could change that situation. Finding sources for some of the articles I recently wrote was a world of difference to the “old days”, for example.

          One reason I didn’t go for history was that I didn’t like working in dusty archives, which is what the old school does, including deciphering almost unreadable old manuscripts written in beautiful but strange “permanship”.

          Besides even a Masters can be a test of patience, including being at a young age and hardly earning money – for me it was. Later on I saw what a test of endurance and patience it was for my brother, even though it was a topic he really liked a lot.

          One just has to read between the lines of some tweets by Mapmakerdavid or XiaoChua on Twitter to see what an Agony and Ecstasy working on one’s PhD can be. With Xiao there is of course the temptation that he is already quite popular with what he is doing now.

          But still, in UP Master’s and even more PhD’s ALWAYS had the reputation of being hard by all standards. Don’t know how the labs are today for natural scientists, must be light years from the misery of before as the Ayalas heavily invested via their Technohub.

          • LCPL_X says:

            I’m just a PhD in Google, but I’d assume any study requires you to agree or disagree, support or dismantle , an already existing theory/fact; then there’s another path in which you make for yourself.

            So maybe the strategy here is to set out on study that has not been undertaken before, wherein the bulk of what you have to construct is all new material, and maybe just research (like Ireneo said via Google or some private database) to add colour.

            • A Masters is considered proof that one is capable of research work and involves tackling one significant new ASPECT of a major topic independently, which means one can spend a year or two maximum including all the preliminaries, though some universities give you a six month time limit once you officially start writing it down, whereas a PhD is about tackling an entire new major topic independently, which it why it can take 5-more years.

              So yes, it often is about looking at things nobody has really looked at in depth before. My father’s doctorate was about the concept of anito (ancestor worship) in the Austronesian world, basically the wooden ones in the Philippines to those of stone on Easter Island. My mother’s doctorate was about 500 years of European research into Philippine languages, from the friars of old to types like the German Otto Scheerer who founded his first family in Baguio – and his second family in Japan, as his personal obsession was with Asia.

              My brother’s doctorate was about German businessmen in the Philippines from the late 19th century to 1916 when the US declaring war on Germany made them either totally go for Filipino citizenship to secure their assets or go back to the Reich. Archives were a drag for my brother but his visiting the German Club in Manila or going to originally German firms there like Zuellig pharmaceuticals seemed to have been fun. I think he even got to interview the Tausug descendants of Captain Shück in Sulu. One thing a PhD does prove is commitment. Fact-checking and logic-checking the final work is also not easy.

              • LCPL_X says:

                Ireneo, I’m thinking your mom’s and brother’s work were more dependent on source materials found in archives, there or EU or the US;

                But your dad’s is the stuff I’m talking about, I don’t think anito or other folklore , or stuff like that, would be found in anyone’s library, thus would require more fieldwork.

                I guess what I’m trying to say is if karl’s point is that source materials are hard to come by over there, why not focus on sources that ‘s only found in the Philippines.

                For example, I would really be interested on those seeds and/or or rocks that Filipinos stick under their skins for protection or power, I dunno if your father included that.

                Sure this is probably more social science, but hard science was developed with less resources, so maybe focusing on Filipino source materials too is possible when in comes to the hard science.

                For example , Western PhDs are now studying Badjaos for their lung capacity, and the ability to stay underwater, other organs are involved too. That all starts with social science, then measurements and testing of the whole notion of human evolution via aquatic ape theory, etc. etc.

                So why no Filipinos that jumped on this? Because IMHO too much reliance on this notion that you have to find Western source materials or validate it with such, to even realize the importance of source materials already found within the Philippines.

          • Karl Garcia says:

            Correct! Thanks again,!

  16. Micha says:

    It’s memorial day weekend here in the US so I want to send my memorial day greetings to our host, JoeAm, who served in Vietnam, and to our Lance Corporal X who served in Cebu.


  17. Karl Garcia says:

    Banning Fb to have their own. Socmed, banning crypto to have their own.

    • Micha says:

      More like an attempt to de-dollarize world trade and get rid of the SWIFT payment system.

      • LCPL_X says:

        Thanks, karl!

        Happy Memorial Day , Micha!

        This perfectly segues to your last point of ‘one gov’t, one country, and one money’.

        If China can go crypto, why not the U.S.? By definition it does satisfy one money.

        US Fed is doing it too; but if it bans Bitcoin knowing damn well they are doing it too. Well…

        That’s just hypocrisy. Thus your ban won’t hold water, Micha (or the US gov’t if they affect it).

      • Karl Garcia says:


        • LCPL_X says:

          Here’s a good video from the Economist,

          Basically, centralized (Central Bank cryptos) vs. de-centralized (Bitcoin, et al).

          Which means there’ll be times you want to use money that’s centralized (maybe for work, official stuff), and then use money that’s de-centralized (like for fun, holiday etc.)

          My bet is that fun will win. Nobody wants Central Banks to be all up in yo bidnes! Hell no.

          from Manila Times:

          THE Bangko Sentral ng Pilipinas (BSP) said it is looking deeper into the viability of a central bank digital currency (CBDC) in the Philippines.

          During a virtual briefing late last week, BSP Governor Benjamin Diokno said the Bangko Sentral has already documented the developments and initiatives of other central banks on CBDC in a report released last month.

          A CBDC is a digital form of central bank money that is denominated in a national unit of account and functions as both a medium of exchange and a store of value.

          The recently released BSP study has recommended continuing research, capacity building and the establishment of networks with central banks and institutions that are also researching on the currency.

          While the BSP is not keen on issuing its own digital currency anytime soon, Diokno said it continues to monitor developments in private digital currencies and CBDCs in both the domestic and global markets.

          “We are currently preparing to undertake a study of its existing payments and settlement system vis-a-vis its digitalization agenda to assess any gaps that may be addressed by a CBDC, and its value proposition against existing payment system,” he stressed.

          “We believe that the ongoing experiments around the region are also motivated by the need to better understand the technology and operational aspect of CBDC, including its challenges,” he added.


          Micha, basically its MMT but with tighter, crazy tight, controls. But it will legitimize Bitcoin. IMHO. The choice can’t be any more clearer.

          • Karl Garcia says:

            TY! No argument from me, whatever works must be sustained.

            • LCPL_X says:

              the Marshall islands are already running it, karl. This is Micha’s MMT in action just using cryptocurrency (albeit centralized). Here,

              What about the impact of digital money on money supply and inflation?

              The tiny Marshall Islands in the Pacific Ocean last year announced the launch of the Marshallese Sovereign (SOV), a digital currency operating on the Algorand blockchain in parallel with the islands’ main currency, the US dollar. The SOV money supply growth is fixed algorithmically at 4% a year to prevent inflation. This percentage growth in money supply cannot be altered by the whims of politicians or budgetary emergencies.

              Fisher says the perception that CBDCs or digital money will be able to impact money supply is a misnomer. “Retail currency, both cash and deposits, make up a tiny portion of the money supply. In fact the introduction of a single digital store of value that is interchangeable will reduce the amount of capital banks, retailers, fintech providers and money transfer agents need to tie up inexpensive liquidity pools.

              “The introduction of digital currency is guaranteed to increase per capita GDP and stimulate growth among SMEs.”


              • LCPL_X says:

                Its actually already going on there.

                karl, heres another video. I remember the bargirls over there, especially the hot ones were making like 20K pesos a month, age/look vary but some more than that even. And they didn’t have bank accounts.

                So money usually went back to mom back in the province , or it went to shabu , there was no concept or notion that they were actually making on par with teachers there. So maybe blockchain is the answer.

                Next time i go to Mango Ave. it’ll be peer to peer no more mamasans married to Scandanavians, karl. Peer to peer.

              • LCPL_X says:

                Once BSP adopts CBDC, UnionBank’s DC will disappear, and once CBDC becomes the only show in town (as poignantly pointed out by Micha, 1 nation; 1 gov’t ; 1 money) , there will be no more need for banks. Thus accomplishing what Micha set out to do in MMT.

                Chempo’s out of the job. Micha wins.

                The opposite of CBDC then becomes Bitcoin, et al.

              • Interesting case. Thanks.

              • LCPL_X says:

                Looks like there’s consensus soon, Joe.

                If you understand crypto (especially the tern censorship resistance) , there’s really no need to artificially create a middleman, just counter productive, just there to placate customers and middlemen;

                So centralized vs. de-centralized is the choice, whether or not the two can exist together is the question.

    • The Philippines if DDS continues to rule will replace FB with PangitBook.

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