Crazy conspiracy theorists and the Philippines

Analysis and Opinion

By Joe America

A conspiracy arises when we have only a part of the picture and so invent the rest of it, then find other believers who, by the weight of their agreement, legitimize and defend it. If the picture is Monet or graffiti, no worries, it’s ours.

One current conspiracy theory among DDS is that Joe America is Edwin Lacierda or Abigail Valte. I guess they’ve figured out that MLQ3 and I have wholly different styles and have drifted away from that one.

The fictions we live have been around a long time. Miguel de Cervantes published Don Quixote in 1605. The protagonist was a lot like today’s social media denizens but the medium was different. The Don read so many romance stories that he became unable to discern truth from fiction. He lost his mind, not unlike DDS. But at least he had his honor intact.

  • About a third of America believes Joe Biden stole the last election from Donald Trump.
  • Anti-vaxxers tell stories of tracking chips in the vaccines and people getting magnetized with forks sticking to their foreheads.
  • And of course America filmed the moon landings in Hollywood.

In the Philippines, National Government pumps out so much propaganda that we know absolutely nothing for sure, other than that Government pumps out a lot of propaganda. Social media is conspiracy media, people making up stuff on the fly and living their lives accordingly.

The Philippines is a nation that operates with conspiracy advocates as leaders, troll armies pumping out manipulative untruths, and people believing in all manner of superstition.

It’s legitimately lunatic. A nation completely unhinged. There is no framework allowing good deeds to prosper. The good intent exists but it is overwhelmed by the liars and gameplayers and citizens living voodoo lives.

I rummaged around to see why conspiracy lunatics are so prominent, over sense and truth. Here’s a thumbnail sketch:


“According to a 2018 study, people who believe in conspiracy theories tend to show personality traits and characteristics such as:

  • paranoid or suspicious thinking
  • eccentricity
  • low trust in others
  • stronger need to feel special 
  • belief in the world as a dangerous place
  • seeing meaningful patterns where none exist

The strongest predictor of belief in conspiracy theories, according to the study, is having a personality that falls into the spectrum of schizotypy.”



Then I came across this book:

The book describes how dysfunctional social media have become and suggests ways to reclaim sanity. I’ve not read it yet, but it’s next on my list after Detective Harry Bosch gets out of his current predicament.

If people who comment on my blog find me getting a little short with them, they might want to read the book, too, and figure out how to return their own thinkings and writing to the path of sense and civility. Diversions, generalizing from anecdotes, mistaking one’s own argument for fact . . . reading and reciting from conspiracy sources and rejecting critical views. This is the stuff we wade through these days in the guise of intelligence.

It’s not intelligence. It is self-deceit.

I’m convinced we must do better or see debate collapse into a dysfunctional morass of lies and hostility. It is sand, quicksand. We must search out the rocks and build there.


Photo source: Royal Museums Greenwich

267 Responses to “Crazy conspiracy theorists and the Philippines”
  1. The Philippines is full of conspiracy theories, some documented in Bob Couttie’s Fools Gold book. Bob is an amateur historian (by definition one who didn’t study the subject as a major is an amateur so MLQ3 is too) who made his name on the Balangiga bells.

    This is a review of the book:

    This is a sample of the table of contents and first pages:

    Click to access intro.pdf

    A lot of nonsense was taught as history with a straight face by teachers 50 years ago: the wave theory of Philippine migration that was just a conjecture by Otley Beyer, that the Philippines was part of Sri-Vijaya which was 1000 km away by sea, that Datu Puti from Borneo for whom there is zero evidence was a founder of the Philippines, that there was an actual Code of Kalantiaw in pre-Spanish Philippines though that was a total hoax, or more recently that Yamashita actually left a treasure in the Philippines during WW2.

    Stories are nice, they make sometimes boring reality more entertaining, but you have to know when reality starts again. I do like Pirates of the Caribbean or Trese, for instance.

    There are a dozen versions of what allegedly happened to the money of the First Philippine Republic, not sure if Bob has written about them, his book has two volumes going on three. Some say Aguinaldo pocketed it, others say Heneral Luna left it with his girlfriend (a Cojuangco) before he was killed (thus founding the Cojuangco fortune) and the other versions I don’t remember. People will believe what they want about those they don’t like, including the sticky story that is disproven about Mar and Yolanda funds.

    It gets to be truly harmful when people believe Senator de Lima is a drug lord and somehow deserves to be in jail. There are enough who do, due to the trolls.

    By comparison, the Mindanaoans who badly wanted Limasawa, Leyte of Pigafetta to be Mazaua in Butuan and tried to find reasons why it could be that way were harmless. But the thinking that lacks Occam’s Razor is too common in the Philippines – for me that razor in the Limasawa case is that locals guiding Magellan had no reason to stray 100 km southwards as they were headed to Cebu and wouldn’t just get lost. Of course the bragging rights for the first mass are important but why bend the truth so wilfully.

    And as we “know”, all infrastructure finished now is part of Duterte’s Build Build Build while the rotten state of the MRT was solely the fault of the PNoy admin. And the debts incurred by Dutz, the bad state of the economy his successor inherits, will be solely the fault of the successor. I am not surprised that VP Leni is taking her time to decide to run, as it is not a thankful job to be an honest Philippine President by all indications, with a people that mostly prefers delusions to the slog of reality they might feel is hopeless.

    • Thanks for the historical references and framing. ‘with a people that mostly prefers delusions’. . . Nice, or as my son would say in the modern gaming vernacular, “noice”. Once one recognizes that all mental constructs are illusion, I suppose it is a lot like being on drugs, but not illegal.

      I trust you are safe from the floods in your area. Electricity seems to be working.

      • Thanks, fortunately our area wasn’t flooded, though parts of Bavaria were some weeks ago the flooding in the Western part of Germany is worse than anything ever experienced over here. Closer to what parts of the Philippines get, indeed with global warming it looks to me like the cycle of extreme heat followed by extreme rain from evaporated water has reached places totally unprepared. Just like the US-style tornado that hit the Western part of the Czech Republic and wrecked houses something like a month ago.

        Well, in the time when the Grimm brothers collected the fairy tales of Germany, a lot of peasants here might have actually believed them. Austrian woodcutters imported as cheap labor by forest owners in parts of Bavaria (first village turned suburb close to Munich I lived in was close to that area) may actually have believed in Krampusses as an explanation for the gusty cold winds of year’s end near the mountains, or some may already have seen it as an entertaining way to pass the shortest nights of the year. Just like some of my classmates in high school during CAT bivouac in the mountains of Laguna found it cool to listen to ghost stories by an old man in the dead of night.

        It is kind of a “trip”. Trese was that for me in a way, taking a walk on the wild side of the Filipino unconscious. As long as one manages to wake up and not get caught in the trip – like with LSD that some people say can cause permanent insanity – that is fine I guess. Of course all we have are the mental models of reality. Chinese of old believed lunar eclipses were caused by a dragon blood trying to swallow the moon, and made a lot of noise to scare away the dragon. We today have a more real model, thanks to science.

        • “..caused by a dragon trying to swallow the moon..” correction.

          It does strike me also that even a page called “Get Real..” is unreal. And of course that Isko Moreno is popular “because he came from the poor” while real achievements of PNoy are still ignored by most. Why, because “a camel can more easily pass the eye of a needle than a rich man be considered good in the Philippines”? Or is it “he was RIIIIICH anyway, he should have given it all to us on a silver platter!”. Magical Thinking?

          • kasambahay says:

            the poor, the most addressed during election time. maawa naman kayo sa akoa, oft said and mentioned. how utterly, utterly poor the uber rich politicians once were. how they ilk a living selling fish in the local market, hence the hook of the villars and their once very humble beginning. made themselves relatable to majority of voters: life is hard work. now, I seriously doubt if the villars would stand shoulder to shoulder with fisherfolks and their diminishing livelihood, thanks to china.

            there are those that made hookie out of sleeping in kulambo, when most cannot even afford kulambo and if they owned one, it’s often full of holes and shrunken beyond repair. the insect screens in their rented homes unheard of, their leantos under bridges and the numerous mosquito bites on thier skin, their badge.

            then, there’s a daughter that seems to be seeking the political nous and guidance of a big time election cheater, cheated right on the same mass of island the daughter holds office, their meeting seen a number of times so important that quarantine rules are relaxed, just for them. hiya! mayhap both have the same sickness and were exchanging notes.

            get real, that’s why there is komiks, lol!

    • Karl Garcia says:

      @Irineo, Keep safe.

      On conspiracy theories, just a few months ago, I was told by chemrock not to criticize him as a conspiracy theorist, again, after all this years, I still have much to learn in interacting and simply being mindful.

      Moving on,

      To avoid conspiracies like reacting quickly to a satirical post and taking it literally.

      My guide posts are: If it is Duterte speaking, chances are, he will say it is hyperbole.
      So no hope in taking him seriously.
      Never deny or downplay the existence of trolls, or else you will be played.
      Do not be a troll yourself.

      • kasambahay says:

        methink, hyperbole rule was also applied to a teacher who bragged in facebook? and was saved 3x from imprisonment. 50million to kill he who is mega big on hyperbole, and the teacher being poor and penniless, could not possibly raise 50millions and was dismissed as charlatan.

        • Karl Garcia says:

          That inciting to sedition case was dismissed due to arresting with out warrant.

          • Karl Garcia says:

            Now some judges are called out for being warrant factories.

            • kasambahay says:

              still, 3x lucky yong teacher, kung ako siya, I’d buy lotto tickets baka manalo ng 50million, there! money problem solved instantly.

              shame about warrant factory judges, para bang mag competisyon sila who issue the most warrants of arrest baka mabigyan pa sila ng order of sikatuna, lol!

        • Karl Garcia says:

          Back to hyperboles and joke onlies.

          Will the people allow him to get away with his pronouncements of running for vp for non existent immunity and bringing sack loads of cash in the campaign.

          Now I appreciate, the accountabilty article more.
          Some maybe remorseful for voting for Duterte, but
          remorse without accountability is nothing.
          It will sink in to enough people eventually but let it be less than ten months.

          • kasambahay says:

            sack loads of cash? baka sack loads of waste paper made in china, lol!

            at saka sa coming last sona, he had better show the pinagmamalaking sack loads of cash, open the sacks and give glimpse of what’s inside. make sure it’s not durog na dolomite o nfa rice.

            and if he failed to show the sack loads of cash, those in attendance are entitled to throw tomatoes at him ala tomatina gaya sa italy. naghahagisan ng tomatoes.

            • kasambahay says:

              pinag-initan na naman ni mega hyperbolic si dating foreign sec del rosario. idedemanda kuno si del rosario for losing part of our territory to china.

              at kung ako si del rosario, I’ll humor mega hyperbolic at kumandidato rin po bilang vp for immunity purpose.

            • Karl Garcia says:

              Sa DOH din.

              • kasambahay says:

                doh would soon be very busy taking anal swab for sequencing delta variant.

              • Karl Garcia says:

                Yeah, but have you seen frontliners throwing tomatoes at DOH for not being paid their hazard pay, their allowance, etc.
                If DOH do a Food panda move, Ubos ang healthworkers natin if they suspend them for ten years. or even ten days.

              • kasambahay says:

                tomato throwing in not habit of health care workers, but overcharging sick patients is, lol!

                food panda drivers in dabaw are lucky, the daughter is busy politiking and doing the round of the sisterhood politicians in cebu and zamboanga, else mabugbog sila on top of losing their jobs.

                if the drivers are near the end of losing patience, they can always create their own cooperative to rival that of food panda inc. necessity being mother of invention.

                nobody not even belo seems to be helping the hapless drivers. and other drivers betrayed fellow drivers at sinumbong sila at naudlot ang proposed strike. their hinanaing were not addressed tuloy, the low pay that gets lower, their none existent health benefits whose fees were taken off their already low wages, etc.

                risa hontiveros is proposing inquiry to get to the bottom of the plight of food panda drivers.

              • Karl Garcia says:

                Not a habit but our healthworkers had too much, I guess.


              • kasambahay says:

                those food panda drivers that lost thier jobs and not re-instated can always approached political candidates running for public offices in 2022, to help them secure business registration in case they want to create their own cooperative.

              • Karl Garcia says:

                They could.

      • Like in Dilbert comics it is Dogbert who is often smarter, in Pugad Baboy it is Polgas:

        Many a discussion in Pugad Baboy is typically Filipino, especially middle class:

        Maybe the entire Republic is sometimes Pugad Baboy.

        • kasambahay says:

          you got that right, Irineo, part of election campaign will be social media based, pandemic wise. our country has a long and weary way to go, delta variant has arrived and not leaving soon.

          • It is partly pandemic related, but also related to the more common mode of communication in the “National Village” of the Philippines.

            The first phase of forming the Philippines was due to a small circle of writers, the ilustrados, the Propaganda Movement, latching on to an earlier movement of Filipino priests fighting for equality that ended with Gomburza being executed, and also to a phase of Spanish liberalization that started with the Cadiz Constitution and also ended with Gomburza after liberal Governor Dela Torre was replaced and his reactionary successor decided that the “natives” had been given “too much freedom”.

            The Katipunan had Bonifacio and Jacinto popularizing and indigenizing the ideas of the Propaganda and the short-lived Liga, the Republic had its main thinker Mabini, then there was the gradual path to self-rule under the USA that had nationalistic writing continuing.

            But around 1920, according to some authors, the moralistic and preachy tone of Tagalog literature (also Cebuano and Hiligaynon writings) was found boring by many people and writing gradually switched to English and a lot of people preferred popular entertainment. Still literacy grew from 10% in 1920 to over 50% by 1950, and the spirit of the times was still one of aspiring to higher literacy, the likes of Sonny and Edgar its products – Sonny especially showing the mix of erudite and popular culture that generation grew up with.

            The 1970s had comics artists like Nonoy Marcelo or strips like Baltik and Company – arguably a predecessor of Crazy Jhenny. Mars Ravelo’s Darna was from the 1950s. Socially conscious movies liked those of Lino Brocka captured the Filipino imagination. OPM music gave Filipino language music a broad national audience and of course the likes of Erap and Fernando Poe Jr. had their heyday in those times. The writing of the Marcos propagandists and leftists bored most people by that time, audience was lost.

            Enter videotape making the assasination of Ninoy more than real for a national audience, the Agrava panel investigating it on national TV as a prelude to future Senate hearings, moskito press spreading censored news, Mr. and Ms. magazine as the future Inquirer asking political questions, Radyo Bandido and Radyo Veritas calling to EDSA in 1986, cellphone text massages calling people to EDSA Dos in early 2000..

            TV Patrol raising awareness about things happening but also heating things up, Tulfos, finally the socmed-fueled victory of Duterte in 2016. Now I have the feeling YouTube videos have the more direct influence on the masses whose style of communication is personal and visual. Even the Twitter crowd which is the most literate has taken to Twitter spaces and Spotify podcasts. On Facebook on may find longer essays by key players, a somewhat older crowd than Twitter mainly. It is also interesting to see how the crowd responding to TSOH differs on Facebook and Twitter. The main action isn’t HERE in the discussion threads. We here are a relatively small group of regulars, mostly.

            • kasambahay says:

              there are lurkers about, some hesitant to yodel here because of resident editor, joeam, lol!

              I’m thankful for joeam’s editing skills though, keeping the blog shipshape, clean and mean and safe for commenters. joeam calling out those with multiple handles pretending to be different person/s. they may not be trolls but can be overwhelming and pesky.

              one person, one vote, and still many are not yet registered but active to very active in social media. comelec has been asking the unregistered to register early and to avoid the rush.

              the rise of social media influencers is probly rewarding, for the ego and for the bank balance, vanity and profit. for the young and not so young, for the vaingloriously photoshopped and for those that dont shave their whiskers with machete, lol!

            • sonny says:

              “… by 1950, and the spirit of the times was still one of aspiring to higher literacy, the likes of Sonny and Edgar its products – Sonny especially showing the mix of erudite and popular culture that generation grew up with. …”

              Irineo, your summary observation is uncannily accurate. I don’t know the circumstances of my late tocayo’s (Edgar Lores) personal history. I’ll trace mine.

              You stated 1950 as the beginning of “the spirit of the times …” 1949 was it for me – I was in Grade 1. My formative awakening lasted till 1967. The “mix of erudition and popular culture” that I extracted from can mostly be traced to inside these 18 years: 3 Catholic colleges for the erudition and Manila society/environs for the pop culture. These are what I carried with me to my 51 years of American struggle for survival.

      • chemrock says:

        @ Karl
        I was branded a conspiracy theorist, but look:
        He “lied’ about Lab leak, but now everyone believes there was a lab leak.
        He “lied” about Hydroxychloroquine but now it’s agreed it helps in the covid treatment.
        He called Rafferberger to get the votes for him, now its revealed there was no such conversation.
        He had the police to tear gas and use rubber bullets on the crowds at Lafeyette Sq just so he can have a photo ops at the church. Now its revealed the crowd was cleared by local authorities because they were preventing contractors from building a fence,
        He “lied” about vote fraud, and now the evidences that the courts refused to look are coming out from the full forensic AZ. And Pennsyvannia and Georgia and gearing up to do a similar AZ full forensic audit.

        And so on and so on and scooby dooby dooby.

        • Karl Garcia says:

          If I branded you as one, that was inappropriate and I apologize.

          If I may disagree with some of your points, even if my reactions were or are weird, I still want to listen to your world view.

          Please do include the political ones, again.

        • Your sources are clearly different than mine. That’s quite a slew of items you list, and each has its context and data, none of which is as simple as you state. Let’s go to the big one. Was Joe Biden elected President or not? If not, please provide a reference source or sources for that conclusion so it is not the two of us slinging mud at each other.

          • chemrock says:

            Let it work it’s way out from Arizona. Big deal going on with PA and GA now, but mainstream are misreporting.
            No point in the details because they are from sources you suspect, and your sources are now all suspect. Cable news media trust rating is now at all time low.

            • Wait, after throwing all that argument against the wall, you want to walk away and blame me? Geez.

              I just posted this article. I believe it is honest and honorable. From a Republican.


              • i7sharp says:

                Joe to Chemrock:
                “I just posted this article. I believe it is honest and honorable. From a Republican.”

                Joe, what is the date of the article?
                “The Arizona election audit cannot accomplish its stated goals. It’s time to focus on the future.”

                In any case, I will focus on three days from now.
                It is now Monday, July 19, about 1:30AM here
                On Thursday, July 22, about this time – if not much sooner – I will share, fwiw, what I will have found out.

            • @ Chempo, “mainstream are misreporting” Please document this accusation.

              Red Herring fallacy. A red herring is a smelly fish that would distract even a bloodhound. It is also a digression that leads the reasoner off the track of considering only relevant information.

              • chemrock says:

                OK Joe
                I don;t want to lead to any arguments. There are too many issues to go over it will require several pages. But just to underline what I said I’ll just entice with one sliver.. Then you can see how the media twist it and what happens in the end.

                From the very beginning November one electronics engineer who has expertise in a special field of kinematics was drawn into this fraud claims. He was never into politics. He was hearing all the fraud claims about ballots then he realised that he actually has the know how and technology to forensically ballots. Traditionally, audits are just manual counts. His technology can forensically audit the scanned ballots.

                So he started volunteering and wanted to share his expertise. His name is Jovan Pulitzer. He has more than 200 patents to his name. Every electronic gadget you have, laptops, mobile fax machines, etc has some of his patents in it. I won’t go into the technicals of how his technology works but basically kinematics is about motion. In the election, ballots are scanned and machine counted. The scanned image are archived. But going through the scanned image, his technology can detect various frauds — such as duplicated ballots, mail-in ballots that were never mailed out in the first place, signature duplicity, unofficial ballot papers, etc.

                Now don’t try to google him. All you will find are condemnation and jokes about him. Mainstream media practically assasinated his character and works. You will never find anything credited to him. If you had listened to interviews of him, his presentation to state legislature at GA, the way he explained how his methodology works, you will see an IT geek with brain cells we don’t understand.

                Just one example of how media made him look like a fool. There were lots of conspiracy theorists and all sorts of people making all sorts of claims. Some for fame or infamy, some are obviously false flags. There was this particular guy who claimed Mongolian royalty. He said he had prove about a Chinese company wan given a last minute order to print millions of ballots. There was a lot of talk about this. What Jovan said was his technology can prove this. So he said if his technology proves it, this story has credence, if not, then its just nonsense, But it certainly something to look at. This is the way he explains it.

                He explained a lot of things about manufactured paper you and I never knew before. Remember, it’s kinematics, in which he has expertise. In US, papers are produced from pulps in a certain way. In China they don’t have the same technology and they use bamboo fibres.. So paper that are manufactured in China is different and it shows up in the ballots. Jovan was simply saying he is interested in the bamboo. if bamboo paper shows up in his forensic audit, the Mongolian guy is the real thing, if not then he Jovan would want the bamboo to beat the shit out of the Mongolian prince. Go google and see how CNN MSNBC and gang made fun of the failed inventor.

                Jovan explained every printer leaves a certain mark on the paper manufactured. It’s a technical signature trail. All US ballots are printed by certained designated authorised printers. It is possible to determine fake ballots from unauthorised printers.

                Were there fake ballot printers discovered? The AZ audit has yet to make a full report. In their preliminary report they disclosed some issues, those that ilSharp pointed out. But they showed samples of how same ballots were scanned several times and they showed the problem of the use of sharpies which were report by voters. The sharpies smudge the markings, thus invalidated the ballot which then goes to manual adjudication. Thus the vote can be manually changed. Why did the sharpie smudge the ballots? Because the ballot papers were diferent.

                The question is, why were sharpies used? Kelly Dixon, an assistant director of Maricopa County Election Board, specifically advised staff to make sure ball pens are always issued, except on election day itself when they must issue sharpies. The conjuncture is most of Trump supporters vote on election day.

                Kelly’s instruction is in the link below.

                None of these were carried by mainstream. This is just an illustration of so many issues uncovered. People just are’nt talking trough their noses. There are evidence, videos, affidavits, reliable witnesses, and even whistle blowers whom some secretaries threatened to prosecute. The tide is turning. That’s why they had to rush Biden to Philly to condemns the push for audit and voter integrity legislation.

                Trump can never hold a candle up to Obama or Hillary in eloquence, but he has a way of communicating crisply. He said to Biden ” Don’t hold up the forensic audits, Joe. Let it go. Let it show how honest it was”. Honestly, that’s all I wanted to see too. It it was clean, the conservatives will loose both the 2 houses in 2022. So why not prove it?

              • Thanks for the brief. You have not provided information in a form I can trust and verify, so it remains fiction to me. Could I be wrong? Sure. But I will not go down the rabbit hole of attaching my thoughts to what appears to be fallacy and nonsense. I leave you to pursue that on your own. I’m happy to review legitimate, authoritative sources I can recognize and trust. If you can’t find any, that, too, is your problem, not mine.

              • chemrock says:

                You read from mainstream and I presented actual documents.
                That is precisely the reason why I don’t want to provide details here and you say I’m running away after splashing the wall.

              • Well that real document was genuinely helpful, thanks. The comments where you threw everything against the wall, and then said forget it because I wouldn’t accept your sources, made impressions, too. I think your hesitancy to present sources is your lack of confidence in them because you know they are from the fringes. But no matter, I don’t mind not having to read them.

              • LCPL_X says:


                I finally just read that email.

                Looks like they were just telling their boss that they were running out of Sharpies, I use to steal those in bulk from supply.

                So the boss lady said, just give ’em pens for now. Occam’s razor. Sharpies are probably just being stolen.

        • Karl Garcia says:

          For Georgia.
          Source: USA Today

          “The claim: A preliminary audit in Georgia found 30,000 ‘fake ballots’

          Another review of ballots in Georgia’s most populous county has inspired a rash of misinformation about the results of the 2020 presidential election.

          On May 21, a Georgia judge agreed to unseal more than 145,000 absentee ballots in a case that alleges Fulton County, home of Atlanta, mishandled ballots. The review is one of a slew of efforts to question election results in states like Arizona and New Hampshire.

          None of those efforts will change the outcome of the 2020 election, but an image in a May 27 Facebook post says the Georgia review has already uncovered fraud.

          “Preliminary audit finds 30,000 fake ballots that are on the wrong paper, have no folds and have been filled out by machine,” says text in the image, which has more than 1,000 shares.

          Fact check: Georgia military, overseas ballots not evidence of election fraud

          Since President Joe Biden beat incumbent Donald Trump in Georgia by more than 12,000 votes, the state has been a hot spot for misinformation about election fraud. But three separate audits found no evidence of wrongdoing affecting the state’s election results — and the review mentioned in the post hasn’t even started yet.

          USA TODAY reached out to the Facebook user who shared the post for comment.

          Three audits didn’t find fraud
          The Georgia secretary of state’s office has audited the state’s election results three times. None of those audits turned up evidence of widespread fraud.

          “Our law enforcement officers and secretary of state’s office spent literally thousands of hours examining ballots in Fulton County and other counties trying to track these kinds of claims down, and so far we’ve seen nothing give any merit to it,” Gabriel Sterling, the Republican chief operating officer and chief financial officer for the Georgia secretary of state’s office, said in a recent interview with CNN.

          • It is easy to be placed on the defensive by the reports because they are reported by somebody as factual. I think that is backward. It falls to the complainants to put authoritative backing to their accusations. It strikes me that there is absolutely ZERO certified or official data about wrongdoing. So until they start coming up with data, I’m treating them as nutcases.

            • Karl Garcia says:

              Yes , it is backward, the burden of proof must be with the complainants.

              • chemrock says:

                Absolutely correct Karl. The onus of proof is on complainants. But the courts have thrown cases out without looking at the evidence.

                The Fulton audit is not a forensic audit. It was simply a private individual who brought a case for his right to examine the ballots. So the judge allowed only a very restricted scope for examining them. Even with the restrictions, they were able to uncover a lot of stuff.

                The Fulton case has coincidental incidents that happens often in Philippines. The state secretary and the election board resisted all the way. Pending the outcome of a TRO the judge ordered the ballots to be under heavy security. So it was vaulted, security cameras, and even 2 armed sheriff stood guard. On a particular day, the guards mysteriously abandoned their post for 2 hours, the cameras were off. When guards returned, the vault was open. Incredulous.

                Constituents demand for audits in New Hampshire and GA forced the state to conduct a few audits. All these were sample counts, they were not done forensically, they were done by parties related to Dominion. Ownself-check-ownself. Constituent appointed auditors were denied. Frauds can never be detected with sample counts.

                AZ is a full forensic audit of Maricopa county managed by state legislature using technology and cyber security experts, performed under surveillance 24×7. Democrat lawmakers, state secretaries, and the election board were invited to participate. They rejected, and did not even appoint monitors. There was one controversial guy who misrepresented himself as media to enter the stadium and bear witness. And of course he goes to Wapo CNN and you read what you want to read.

                So yes, complainants have the onus of proving. But they must be given opportunity to do discovery work. They had it in Maricopa. The private individual had it in Fulton. Let’s just wait for the reports.

                Normally when a complaint has lodged in courts, there must be depositions in order to move forward. All cases were thrown out without the courts looking at evidence and without any deposition being ordered. Now in Fulton, there is a separate court case where depositions have been order on 3 defendants. These are the Ralph family, father, mother and daughter who chased everybody out of the ballot counting room, locked up, and started scanning ballots pulled out of suitcases. The ballots were repeatedly scanned over several times. All these were caught on surveillance camera.

              • Karl Garcia says:

                Usually if courts dismiss cases for lack of evidence, the complainants have to provide more evidence.
                You say they were not given a chance .
                The audit is not yet done and you say there is more to come, so there is the chance of providing evidence.

                Take for instance the case mentioned by kasambahay where a teacher offered 50 million to anyone who would assasinate the president.
                Some how it was dismissed three times.
                Not because the court did not want to look at the evidence,they looked at it but found that it was still not enough to proceed

                Going back to the audits.
                So again let see, if the complainants will be blocked for efforts to find more evidence in all the fraud accusations.

              • chemrock says:

                Karl I don’t know about Kasambay’s case.

                In the cases I mentioned, the court took 10 minutes for a decision. How long does it take to read 700 pages of documents.
                You know, we look to US and UK often for precedent cases. But recent US jurisprudence is really disappointing as the courts have taken partisan stance, either way. Its value has diminished greatly. Sad.

              • According to the Washington Post . . . , instead of alleging “widespread fraud or election-changing conspiracy” the lawsuits pushed by Trump’s team and allies focused on smaller complaints, which were largely dismissed by judges due to a lack of evidence. “The Republicans did not provide evidence to back up their assertions — just speculation, rumors or hearsay.”


              • Here’s a brief on some 40 Trump cases that went nowhere, and the reasons. The American judicial system is among the best in the world and you should be ashamed for disparaging it. You on a contract with China by any chance?


              • Karl Garcia says:

                Re: kasambahay case.
                That case was PH news where a certain teacher offered 50 M PHP to who ever whacks Duts, inciting to sedition cases were filed but due to lack of a warrant of arrest and insufficient evidence that the accused was the one who posted the threat in socmed, the teacher got released.

              • LCPL_X says:

                “In the cases I mentioned, the court took 10 minutes for a decision. How long does it take to read 700 pages of documents.”

                I’m no lawyer , chemp. But I’m pretty sure it works the opposite way, you don’t waste a courts time by expecting them to read 700 pages of documents, you present your evidence in 10 minutes and the court decides if there s cause.

                You don’t make the court do your own homework;

                though this is a game played by big law firms when they sue the little guys, they give ’em 700 pages to go thru. But you don’t play the same game with the court. If you can’t outline your case in 10 minutes, then its assumed

                you don’t have nothing. Burden of proof and all.

              • Karl Garcia says:


                The right to discovery is for the accused, not the complainant.

                Discovery is the process by which someone charged with a crime can obtain information from the prosecutor before they go to trial. “

              • Karl Garcia says:

                Had to check wiki.

                It is a two way street.

                “Discovery, in the law of common law jurisdictions, is a pre-trial procedure in a lawsuit in which each party, through the law of civil procedure, can obtain evidence from the other party or parties by means of discovery devices such as interrogatories, requests for production of documents, requests for admissions and depositions.[2] Discovery can be obtained from non-parties using subpoenas. When a discovery request is objected to, the requesting party may seek the assistance of the court by filing a motion to compel discovery.”

  2. i7sharp says:

    Of conspiracies and bitcoin …
    Of crazy conspiracies and bitcoin …

    him Bill Gates he’s gonna mark everybody
    with the mark of the beast when he gives
    them the syringe calm down but it does
    have something to do with using body
    activity you get my pin using body
    activity data with a crypto what
    currency now Donna the software lady
    sent me this and I said okay explain it
    to me and she said well I really can’t
    I’m not exactly sure how crypto currency
    works I mean I know there is such a
    thing as crypto currency and I know it’s
    related to block chain I have no idea
    what that is okay and somehow you can
    mine cryptocurrency I have absolutely no
    idea how to do that don’t know what it
    is couldn’t describe it to you if a gun
    was to my head however Microsoft giving
    a number six oh six oh six to an
    implanted device possibly an implanted
    device I
    don’t know that when you do something it
    goes and when you do it again it goes

    • @Sharp, I’ve put you back on moderation. I can’t stand these Limbaugh style preachers and won’t have them on my blog. Here’s my suggestion if you wish to contribute here. Write straight original thought. Bring in resources if necessary. Don’t be mysterious or cute or play games to dig at me. Teach or learn. Imagine you are at a college seminar on the Philippines, not on the bible. Go from there.

      • LCPL_X says:

        paranoid or suspicious thinking >>>>>>>> 8
        eccentricity >>>>>> 6
        low trust in others >>>>>>>>> 9
        stronger need to feel special >>>>> 5
        belief in the world as a dangerous place >>>>>> 6
        seeing meaningful patterns where none exist >>> 3 (I think i7sharp is at a 10 here; and maybe chempo around an 8 ).

        Joe, I did some self assessment here, and came up with the numbers above.

        So though i’m a fan of conspiracy theories , I can break ranks just as quick is my assessment. Like when karl changed my mind about Bitcoin last nite via what they’re calling an inflation bug (in 2018), turns out that happened before in 2010 too; but chemp is correct it was handled within hours and appropriately, but the suspicion now should be if its happened before it will happen again, thus that 8 for suspicious thinking and 9 for low trust in others comes to play.

        But i was thinking about the opposites of all those qualities, so

        Sheeple thinking <<< which would be bad
        Average <<< again who wants to be average, boring
        Too trusting <<< that's worst
        Not special <<< lack of ego means you're predisposed to follow others with bigger egos
        The world is safe <<< again i'm a Locke-ian in this, not Hobbesian (world is pretty boring), but to walk around like everythings rainbows and unicorns, thats also dangerous
        No patterns exist <<< That's the exact opposite of how your brain works, Joe!

        Thus i think that's the best antidote to all the ills that you've outlined above, Joe. Now I'm still researching this 51% attack on blockchain, via chempo, but it was karl saying Bitcoin has been comprimised and the example posted. Thus I'm wrong.

        Thank you again, karl.

        • LCPL_X says:

          I would just add that I do value i7sharp’s connections, but they generally aren’t relevant; chempo’s is always relevant,

          but my point here isn’t to disparage both, its folks that think in patterns (even when none seemingly exists, especially if they can back their theories), that tend to move the world.

          Can you imagine if the Jews didn’t apply all those qualities outline above, they’d still be in Egypt; or if the Americans didn’t follow John Hancock and his conspiracy theories; sonny posted on Cromwell awhile ago, that moved people too.

          conspiracy theories move people because human brains like novel and weird things, new ideas, thus new patterns. But conspiracy theories are not all equal. Thus a blanket bias against them, like closing your mind to anything you deem weird or not within your own world view,

          is also detrimental.

          • There is no question that socialized intelligence has become hallucinatory, fed by conspiracy theories and manipulators and fallacious reasoning. To accept this as constructive is the biggest nonsense of them all.

          • Sharp is in moderation and if he doesn’t get his thinking aligned with what this blog is about, we won’t be hearing much from him. This is not his FB page where he can say what he wants. It’s a discussion page where we address issues relevant to the Philippines in a style acceptable to the editor. He fights it and I have no interest in engaging with him.

          • sonny says:

            LC, my current “conspiratorial” pre-occupation is Erich Von Daniken’s mysteries. 🙂

            On Bitcoin, I’m inclined to stay with Micha, Karl & Joe. There seems to be many Pure & Applied mathematicians out there with a lot of time on their hands.

            • LCPL_X says:

              What I’ve been focused on lately on that same vein , sonny, are these mother ships sightings. Astronomy prof. also now delving into UFO studies, focuses on this. The recent gov’t outing of UFOs as real , has now got academia interested, with the data already collected and implications of future studies of these objects.

              Re math, sonny, I’m really bad in math, averaged Cs and Ds in high school. But had math been taught as competing ideas, instead of just numbers , I think I would’ve gotten better grades. These guys Godel and Galois are really interesting characters, why wasn’t this covered in high school.

              Its the drama that gets us interested further in ideas. Thus coat the ideas in drama.

     (Read Galois’ last letter, before he goes off and dies in a duel unsurprisingly over a woman)

              Mathematician Hermann Weyl said of this testament, “This letter, if judged by the novelty and profundity of ideas it contains, is perhaps the most substantial piece of writing in the whole literature of mankind.”

              • sonny says:

                LC, my Math record is same as yours, ‘Cs’ n ‘Ds’ just enuf to get admitted to Chem curricula. I so wanted to complete that Chem background. 😦

              • Karl Garcia says:

                But you aced the Sciences for sure,

            • chemrock says:

              @ Sonny
              Wow that you mentioned Erik Von Daniken.
              He was one of the very first. Oh boy how he was ridiculed in the early years. And since then, he has people spinning off his ideas into so many History Channel sequels. I believe of of those guys, the Greek with funny hairdo, he had a gig in Philippines some time back.

              Many of Von Doniken’s “conspiracy theories” have since been supported by new evidence.
              Sonny, I was one of his early followers, decades ago, pre internet. Not that I believed just like that, mindlessly at everything he said. Of course I tried to connect dots, make sense of it, search for other collaborations, etc. Not that I now believe everything. The point is, out of such wild claims, one may perceive something that makes sense.

              It may interest you to know, poor von Daniken never made money out his publications. He was keen to share his findings out to the public and was not much of a businessman. So he signed away his rights without understanding the monetary implications.

              • sonny says:

                Chempo, the era of the Internet is means to construct “Erich Von Daniken Redux” aka CHARIOT OF THE GODS II. The year 1968 was my first intro to Erich’s mysteries. At that time I couldn’t get enough of Von Daniken. I read Gerald O’Neill’s THE HIGH FRONTIER: Human Colonies in Space, with him, Von Daniken, as background.resource.

                Note: I recommend THE COLLAPSING UNIVERSE: The Story of Black Holes, by Isaac Asimov. Good stuff, more readable than A Brief History of Time, by Hawking 🙂

              • chemrock says:

                Asimov is one of my fabs. Read several of his books. But the Collapsing Universe I have not read. Will try to get hold of it.

                Sonny, Asimov has one short story that I found fascinating and been trying to use it to quote for a lot of situations. But I have forgotten the title. It does’nt seem to be listed in my google searches. Perhaps you may recall.

                The story is like young man goes to a settlement, another time, another planet. Place is managed by group of elders. There is a deep secret which is closely guarded by the elders. Young man heard of the secret. He looked into it. Came to conclusion the secret is some kind of knowledge which can benefit everyone. Young man ask elders – good for all, why don’t reveal secret. Elders said it’s good, but will destroy the settlement. Young man later got hold of the knowledge and opened it to the public. It soon destroyed the settlement.

                The knowledge is how to read other people’s minds. Just imagines, everybody knows what everybody else is thinking.

              • sonny says:

                I have not come across that short story either, chempo. I will be on the lookout for that plot and renew my acquaintance with Asimov of course. (I think he has passed on.) Thanks for the ‘recommend’.

        • Karl Garcia says:

          I was actually inspired by your one too many argument when I opined that bitcoin may have been compromised more than once.
          But upgrades are par of the course, if you go full conspiracy theorist, you would think that there is malice in every software upgrade, software patches.
          Every vaccine booster etc.
          Or as you are anti-war even for a Marine, would you think that wars are manufactured?

        • Well, your opposites are not really opposites. The opposite of paranoia is sane, not sheeple. The opposite of eccentricity is conventional, not average. The opposite of low-trust is not to trust everything, but to believe in good faith. The opposite of a need to feel special is being secure, not following others. The opposite of believing the world is a dangerous place is to believe it is generally safe, not be pollyanna. The opposite of hallucinating is not dullness of mind. The characteristics were identified by scientists, not me. One should listen, I think.

          • LCPL_X says:


            I argued the best I could when defending Bitcoin ,karl, but when you checkmated me, I had to Google more about these inflation bugs, and that’s a totally wild hole to jump into, i’m now perusing Bitcoin forums. I can’t understand half the things they’re talking about. LOL.

            Hat tip to you, karl. And…

            For sure most wars post WWII were manufactured. This is why I’m libertarian and nationalist (anti-globalists, they cause wars) but also pro-Bernie, he agrees these wars are unnecessary (thought I’ve not heard him say manufactured, Chomsky does though, and am sure Bernie likes Chomsky).


            I mean opposite as opposite sides of the spectrum. You’re talking about middle. Of course being in the middle is best for everyone. My point was just that you roll down the other side, and well that’s no good neither.

            And no…

            Not really scientists , Joe, but social scientists, and we all know psychology and sociology are not exact sciences (even economics), thus these words these characteristics they’ve outlined are also questionable. Skepticisms always good when it comes to the social sciences IMHO. They are no authority.

            So no, I don’t agree with your “One should listen”, for me One should question. Always. Though Sheeple listen. And obey.

            Be open of mind is all I’m saying , Joe. You can’t get any more constructive than that, I think.

            The moment you say that’s conspiracy theory! or that’s fake news! you’ve closed the discussion before it even started, and for what?! for uniformity of thought! Wrong. Debate should be encouraged, only way to change minds.

            • LCPL_X says:

              p.s. — I’m not defending i7sharp, he should be on moderation. But in fairness to his seeing connections every where, I’m totally read ing more about KJV and that era now, all because of his postings on KJV.

              it may not be apparently relevant to the Philippines, but since many Filipinos now are jumping on the Protestant bandwagon, especially going Evangelical, good to know what and how Filipinos will be thinking about the Bible.

              I mean Jesuits have to go thru schooling and study Philosophy etc., and these new evangelical pastors do some stupid correspondence course in the US and lo & behold, they’re pastors! There’s no comparison, Joe.

              My point, hey maybe Catholic priests do play around but atleast you know theres some education in them, can you imagine more pastors in the Philippines?

              • You do two important things, contribute original thought and relate discussions to the Philippines. Your videos and pictures are generally supportive of your arguments. Sharp talks in mysteries, peddles his bible wares and technology tricks, and offers some blowhard conspiracy-theory preacher as primary content. In a discussion about how we need to get to sense, science, and facts over personal neediness, illogic, and dysfunction.

                If I want to clean up the discussion here, and walk the talk, I can’t allow the cancer to fester here.

            • But but but you said in big yellow posterboard “argue as if you’re right and listen as if you’re wrong!” So which is it, listen if it supports your case and dismiss it if it doesn’t? Color me confused or you nonsensical. Social scientists do the research that leads to insights that you and I don’t have. Call it knowledge. And you want to toss it because it’s inconvenient? Open-mindedness as an excuse for bad thinking is not a good thing. Maybe use it to solve the problem of the dysfunctional conversations taking place rather than arguing for the dysfunction as a thing of beauty, and then contributing to it.

              • LCPL_X says:

                LOL! That Argue and Listen is a balancing act, Joe. Your Listen is different in that you mean, Listen to social scientists. And if academia has taught as anything when it comes to the social sciences, they tend to be wrong a lot. Ethics and loose definitions, etc. etc.

                Now i can only read the abstract in the link you’ve shared, won’t allow me any further, so I can’t go into the study itself, but it reminds me of a past study where “scientists” determined that conservatives tended to be more stupid than liberals.

                So there’s an element of bias in these things, in the methods, in the way questions are asked, in the way studies are framed. Granted I do agree that conspiracy theorists are not normal people, but the kicker is that normal people will tend to believe in these conspiracy theories

                when enough people do, herd mentality and what not. So any study that attempts to identify how stupid conspiracy theorists are in the end is all moot , because we already know that people will buy into an idea, given the popularity. Then the cycle restarts,

                within popular ideas, unpopular ones sprout up, and conspiracy theories again. Thus its not the people, but the ideas that need studying, Joe. So again I am not listening to psychologists, w/out being a skeptic first.

                Nor should anyone.

              • Well, again, you are dismissing that which is inconvenient because, well, you say it should be dismissed. That’s dirrrrty thinking in my book. I believe there is a problem and they are working earnestly on solution. You are opposing that.

              • LCPL_X says:

                You’re not getting my point, Joe, I am not dismissing it; I’m saying question it. And I’ve outlined the flaw above.

              • Your argument is that academics are wasting their time saying conspiracy theorists are stupid because the argument is moot because stupidity is popular. Mine is that conspiracy thinking is damaging, we need to discover why it exists, and develop the tools to recognize it and not allow it to be the framework we live by.

              • Karl Garcia says:


                Another thing that confuses me is this.
                You said the moment that when fake news or conspiracy theories gets called out, the discussion is ended before it started.
                You have the habit of being skeptical as a default, isn’t that also ending the conversation even before starting it?

              • LCPL_X says:

                “Mine is that conspiracy thinking is damaging, we need to discover why it exists, and develop the tools to recognize it and not allow it to be the framework we live by.”

                Your summary is all wrong, but just re read what i wrot e above. I’ll not bother rehashing.

                I’ll focus on what you’ve just said.

                Conspiracy thinking by itself isn’t the issue, many times they’re right for example Fauci and his folks were really involved in gain of function research in China, but last year that would’ve been pooh-poohed by the smart folks as conspiracy theory.


                As to why it exists, you don’t have to be a PhD, Joe, its the same reason our minds can see pictures in Magic Eye stereo-images or why we can discern the front or back of masks as the same face, the human mind is geared for patterns.

                Tools to recognize it shouldn’t be focus on ad hominems but in debate and finding holes in said theories. For example, you said below Bitcoin is the biggest conspiracy theory, but you’ve not proven why or how; nor chempo really, especially not Micha. But karl’s inflation bug is one such proof.

                If you noticed Micha tried to play hero below and rub it in, and say hey I told you so, LCPL_X to which i shot Micha down right away.

                This I told you so, when one hasn’t successfully debated is no winning strategy, Joe. Remember only karl shot me down. And karl didn’t do so by ad hominem, ie. you’re a dope.

                karl stirred me to a better way of looking at this. Period.

                As for your last point, about framework, I agree that everyones framework for thinking should be tight, but there’s plenty of frameworks out there, scaffolds, models, theories… and I’m pretty sure the study you’ve linked to doesn’t offer a “better” framework, they seldom do.

                Thus theres an absence of which is best or better. I-Ching is as valid.

                Thus stick with tackling conspiracy theories one theory at a time. Without ad hominems, Joe. That’s my bigger point here.

              • If we take them one conspiracy at a time, the nonsense will win because it is everywhere and oppressive, defeating problem-solving and good sense. The Philippines is a nation operating on conspiracies and it’s a mess. The US is heading there, too, as every yahoo becomes a moralist and like yahoos band together and claim they are the real Americans. The ties that bind, respect and inclusion, discussion over partisanship . . . they are losing. The craziness is winning. It’s like global warming. If we look at one glacier melting fast, we don’t see global catastrophe bearing down. I’m a social environmentalist. Catastrophe is bearing down.

              • LCPL_X says:

                “You have the habit of being skeptical as a default, isn’t that also ending the conversation even before starting it?”

                No, karl. Because i’m encouraging engagement, prodding for more opposing arguments.

                For example, if Joe was so inclined he can post more on the research and we can debate it more. I’m simply questioning the research, as a hunch (historical pattern of social sciences). I’m challenging. If Joe wants to play, he’ll outline the research further and we can have at it. My position as opposition will be that

                that research is conspiracy theory, but that’s for polemic and rhetoric only, i’ll be open to Joe actually laying out the research. But theres only so many hours in a day and Joe’s got better things to do.

                Skepticism isn’t closed ended, its a framework, or lens, of seeing the world. Not concrete , karl. What Joe is espousing is akin to censorship. But for his blog, its understandable. Not as framework IMHO.

              • One does not have to be a social scientist to see the dysfunction that surrounds us. One only has to watch. I personally take the research you consider to be a conspiracy theory as, not all-defining or 100% correct, but as an ACADEMIC theory. The difference between a conspiracy theory and academic theory is that one is emotional, based on personal neediness, and the other is intellectual, based on a desire to solve problems and build. I’m not espousing censorship. I’m espousing self-reflection and the building of forms of discourse that are constructive and respectful. Of course, any editor is a censor, as is every critic.

              • Here’s today’s form of discussion.

              • Karl Garcia says:

                Thanks, no further questions on why you question.
                Maybe you are an auditor, they are professional skeptics.

              • LCPL_X says:


                Theories purport to explain. Makes no difference if you see it as conspiracy or academic or spiritual/religious, they attempt to inform, conspiracy just means that theres a conspiracy afoot.

                You’re essentially describing life. in that first comment.

                In that Ted Cruz tweet, you’d simply go to the hospital, check who is hospitalized and voila! the truth as to who is spreading the virus. In the news, they are saying, and this is local news in Socal,

                that everyone sick has not been vaccinated. I can make an informed guess because I know over the year now there was a huge drive to vaccinate illegals here, and that was successful what they said.

                Thus it shouldn’t be illegals, because getting jabbed for free and health folks going out there seems like an easy deal.

                But to Ted Cruz’s point, of course he is wrong because he said the word “released”, meaning he’s talking about illegal aliens caught , detained by ICE and then released, because I know a buddy that’s a nurse practicioner in the national guard,

                that is there now. Much of the medical military folks got activated, and a bunch ended up in the ICE detainment centers precisely to vaccinate them.

                So if they got out, they’d be vaccinated. No break outs in the news, prison escape or what not. But then again, I also read a while back that there was a huge covid spread within these facilities, so the question is having been vaccinated can you still spread.

                See how complicated the thought process is now. I can go on and on…

                My point is, all things have to be considered and not deem it a waste of time. Because it isn’t. If I was active on Tweeter and cared what Sen. Cruz says, I’d write that. But I’m not and I don’t.

                So the solution is to turn off all this, or not care what certain so and so says. I care about what you’re blog does and what this blog is saying specifically, so i take the time to elaborate. I care about what chemp or Micha says, el al. that’s because theres community here.

                The problem i think is that you genuinely think, Joe, that you’re changing the world. Take a load off!

                Like in the Philippines theres so many flies when you eat; you can’t eat if you’re constantly swatting flies. Just eat and enjoy, is my advice. Flies will fly around. Your meal is your focus, but so is theirs, so share. Flies use acid which actually kills bacteria so they are sanitary.

                Mosquitoes are a different matter.

              • “The problem i think is that you genuinely think, Joe, that you’re changing the world. Take a load off!”

                About the most arrogant pile of shit argument since Edgar stopped responding to you about your advocacy for EJKs. I write a blog from the Philippines that a couple of thousand people read on a good day, from a lost island in a lost nation in a crazy world inhabited by nut cases, and because I argue for sanity in discussions, you go banshee ad hominem? Get a life.

              • And, no, academic theories are not the same as conspiracy theories simply because the success of your argument requires it to be so.

              • LCPL_X says:

                Joe, sorry didn’t mean to be offensive.

                I don’t understand how you even took offence to “take a load off”, if you read my last post in context, “take a load off” is essentially another strategy, not as bad as censorship is my point, but good for the soul.

                You’ve actually done this before, when you’ve just shut down the blog, or activated it but let Ireneo and karl drive, etc.

                I’m simply comparing it to the strategy of censorship type thinking, ah! that’s all conspiracy theories, conspiracy theorists are stupid, etc. If unable to counter by counter ideas you don’t like, “take a load off” , meaning take a break. But my point was,

                attempt to counter by counter these theories to dismantle them. Not dismiss. In lieu of that, “take a load off”.

                Nothing I’m posting is personal nor emotional, Joe. Please don’t construe it as such. Just pushing back on your blog topic.

              • We all come at issues from our vantage points. Mine is as a blog editor and social media minor minor influencer focused on defending the Constitution and human rights, in the main. I’m hounded by trolls who use fallacious arguments and here at the blog I can easily spot the ‘conspiracy buffs’ pushing one side of arguments backed by extremist thinkers. All I want is straightforward discussion. When I argue for a ‘come to jesus’ realization that our whole discussion framework is poisoned, you say I want to change the world and should stop doing that. You say take them one conspiracy at a time. No. Democracy is failing. We should be ashamed. You’re having a good time. You think I’m the problem. I think you’re the problem.

              • Karl Garcia says:

                I said no more questions, but I have to butt in again.
                We were allowed to provide content here with Joe’s permission, and we did not do it to hijack the blog by telling Joe to just take a break and leave it to us. Who are we to do even suggest that?

              • It just so happened that we had this creative phase in a time when Joe was clearly a bit annoyed and had closed comments. In fact the first three articles of Going Home are with closed comments as Joe asked me if I wanted to moderate and I said for now no.

                I was happy though to see Joe – and then WILL who hadn’t written at all since Otso Diretso lost in mid-2019 – writing again from early this year onwards. But the reason for Joe’s annoyedness in mid-2020 and for this article here is the one and the same I think. Though I now see Joe’s short postings on FB being shared by the likes of Ninotchka Rosca (a strong influencer herself) or Joe’s Tweets being screencapped and shared all over Philippine socmed – the focus of the action has moved it is no longer just here.

              • You are correct on both points, my ‘exhaustion’ here and the greater spread of posts on Twitter and FB. I don’t know if it is rediscovery or greater political activism there. Whenever an old blog gets posted, there are several happy readers, for the first time. Today it was my commentary on Aquino and Yolanda.

              • Yep, read that. As PNoy is now part of history, your old blogs on him are important written testimonials to his six years in office.

                BTW we are having our own Yolanda moments now in Germany with the deadly flash floods that hit the area where the candidate of Merkel’s party for Chancellor in Sept. happens to be Prime Minister. Every detail of what he does and says is being watched.

              • He’s the man caught laughing in the background?

              • Karl Garcia says:

                Yes that is where the action is.
                I also saw that Yolanda article and am.happy for Joe that people appreciate it.

              • LCPL_X says:

                ” our whole discussion framework is poisoned, you say I want to change the world and should stop doing that. You say take them one conspiracy at a time. No. Democracy is failing. “

                Joe, I’m not saying for you to stop!!! I’m posing two strategies, between censorship or taking a break, taking a break is better than censorship. That’s it. Because censorship (in general) adds to the problem, doesn’t solve. Again I agree with your editorialship here. I’ve always deferred to it not questioned it, but I will push back on points.

                Karl Garcia says:

                “by telling Joe to just take a break and leave it to us. Who are we to do even suggest that?”

                I’m not suggesting that, karl, I’m making a comparison.

                Further, karl, my disagreement with Joe here is in how we’re viewing this whole phenomena of social media, Joe thinks democracy is failing; I think its thriving. This is democracy!!! and all thanks to social media.

                It’s messy!

                I’m gonna venture that you’ve already finished the last Loki E6, karl, so essentially its like Joe is Kang (or One Who Remains) who’s intent on pruning variant timelines over the sacred timeline via the TVA, but the sacred timeline was simply one he’s chosen as best;

                Not the only one.

                Sylvie (I guess Evil Loki too) are me, skepticism and mischief leading to the discovery of various variants and variance. Like how you came to inflation bugs in Bitcoin, karl. I’ve been Googling about Bitcoin chinks in its armour for awhile now, and you found it. that sort of discovery.

                I’m not gonna ruin the episode further, but Joe was the good guy. But regardless,

                my point here is to not approach this current phenomena as a censor, with Twitter and Instagram, with everyone having a say at everything and on everyone, don’t prune, either avoid or interact.

                That avoid is my point in this now prolonged thread, avoiding is better than pruning, but interacting is best. Best for democracy. Pruning never is. it paves the way for consolidation of ideas, you don’t want that for democracy you want all voices heard. Even if theres chaos.

                Disagreements. all that define democracy.

                The burden in attempting to go against Web 2.0 now going to Web 3.0 is like Atlas carrying the world, it has to be exhausting if you’re doing it to change things, granted individual sense of duty is their own, karl, but that sense of needing to prune invariably leads to censorship. That is the enemy of democracy.

                Teach people to argue , if not then teach them to discern at least. One cannot discern if opposing points are blocked, pruned from the sacred timeline.

              • There is a difference between messy and failing, between debate and capitol riots, and between patriotism and treason. We disagree on the condition of democracy in the US and presumably Philippines, too, so therefore are unlikely go gain much by beating the horse dead with words. I intend to read the book posted in the blog article and may return to the subject later.

              • Sigh. Vibrant American democracy. Jefferson would be so proud, I guess. AP is neutral, right? Politically neutral?


              • Karl Garcia says:

                I will use your fly analogy. To enjoy your meal with out having to shoo the flies away all the time you do the following:

                Shut the door and windows if indoors.
                Then light a candle.(No, you do not spray the dining room with pesticides while eating)

                You will do everything that is within your control, so that you can enjoy.

                In real life, you can have irreconcilable differences with people even the ones you love or loved, but life goes on.

                Btw if you are a gardener, pruning can make your plants grow properly and look better at the same time.

              • I grew roses in the US. My favorite was a yellow one, fancy that. In the fall, I’d chop them back to the stumps, about a foot high. They rest for the winter, then come spring, “pow”, gorgeous roses and a scent to die for. Well, that’s extreme pruning.

              • LCPL_X says:

                Great analogies both, Joe and karl.

                karl, on flies in the Philippines you’re correct but most houses in the Philippines don’t have airconditioning, meaning they have to open windows, then with open canals it gets worst, plus dog poop all over the place. I don’t think you can help it, flies will come in.

                Of course here in the US when its cold in the winter the flies disappear. No winter in the Philippines. sure get the maid to swat while you eat, but my point is general.

                So there has to be certain amount of luxury or “progress” involved to enjoy the civility youre envisioning. Of course if you’re dealing with all academics or say actors or professionals, you’ll have an element of civility. In true democracy you don’t.

                Therein lies the issue, a doctor with all this education and a standby will have the same voice in a democracy. In convincing that standby that he is wrong, telling him that he is stupid I’ve notice will not gain you favor.

                As for the pruning of roses metaphor, this is an aethetics differences, I really don’t like European gardens nor the Japanese ones, overly manicured, but some botanical gardens here allow plants to keep on growing, like native shrubs and when they flower its really beautiful.

                Theres an element of chaos captured in Botanical gardens that is very realistic, its what you see in the wild. In Nature. Thus more beautiful IMHO.

                As to Joe’s point about the US and the Philippines. Here’s a great quote from Carl Sagan in 1995,

                “I have a foreboding of an America in my children’s or grandchildren’s time — when the United States is a service and information economy; when nearly all the key manufacturing industries have slipped away to other countries; when awesome technological powers are in the hands of a very few, and no one representing the public interest can even grasp the issues; when the people have lost the ability to set their own agendas or knowledgeably question those in authority; when, clutching our crystals and nervously consulting our horoscopes, our critical faculties in decline, unable to distinguish between what feels good and whats true, we slide, almost without noticing, back into superstition and darkness. The dumbing down of America is most evident in the slow decay of substantive content in the enormously influential media, the 30-second sound bites (now down to 10 seconds or less), the lowest common denominator programming, credulous presentations on pseudoscience and superstition, but especially a kind of celebration of ignorance.”

                In 1996, FOX News was founded. Ever since then, there’s been a tug of war. Without FOX News its safe to say the pruning would’ve been complete; with FOX News , now all sorts of media, and social media, its utter chaos. with all sorts of rebuttals. and counter arguments.

                The Philippines is experiencing this chaos too, but not the same way we are here. Over here, everyone is opinionated, I can’t imagine a time in which Americans were without opinion. It part of the DNA i think, since the Puritans then Pioneers, then just being American. Maybe its the school system.

                In the Philippines I think, Filipinos are prone to follow and obey, but since social media, they get to like posts and re-tweet them, whether or not Filipinos in general are capable of original thought as a whole, remains to be seen. I think BPOs interactions with Americans have probably done this. Rub off some.

                My point here is that this same chaos is affecting the two countries differently. But to Carl Sagan’s point because MSNBC is talking about this quote like its talking about FOX News and social media, no … Carl’s talking about MSM, he was talking about them

              • Yes, the liberal media are also dumbing down and going tabloidian. Fox is going nuts. 🤣😂🤣 The Philippines is passive, for sure. It’s amazing what people will not see, pretend not to see, or simply accept. Americans have more agendas, but the dumbing down has removed some of the capacity to grasp how working together is better for everyone. It’s my ox goring yours.

              • Hmm.. our house at UP had no aircon except for the ones in the bedrooms used to cool them for an hour or two before sleeping as we couldn’t afford the electricity for more..

                But we did have screens on the windows that kept flies and mosquitoes out effectively. Yep, transparent screens, metal wire grids? Don’t know if there is another word for them.

                The old, open layout ancestral Filipino homes had something like a huge fan above the table which a servant moved back and forth to dispel flies while the well-off owners ate.

                Non-aircon eateries in 1970s Ermita or Quiapo had big electric fans on the ceiling.

                Not the same kind of fans they have in Cuba, but I guess same tropical motivations.

              • LCPL_X says:


                Democracy isn’t really about working together. If you want working together , there are better options for that, you got dictatorship or one party rule, USSR or China, hell bring back monarchy.

                If you want individual freedoms you go with democracy. The assumption being that if everyones got dignity, and can do whatever they want (within the law) then you get a semblance of harmony,

                which will spill over to a semblance of unity.

                But unity is best expressed also under conditions of homogeneity , either shared culture or shared race (ie. Japan, Korea, Iceland, Scandanavia).

                I would argue that Carl Sagan’s correct, without countering ideas, you’ll get to idiocy, with counter ideas, more democracy. Eventually you’ll get to some sort of consensus or agreement, like in the 1990s, one thought,

                then things change where disagreements happens, but this is allowed in democracy, ebb & flow, Joe. Democracy thrives in this millieu. its just confusing and most times annoying, but again thats democracy. Chaos it is.

                Not 1984.

              • LCX: “Democracy isn’t really about working together.”

                Constitution: “We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.”

              • LCPL_X says:

                Joe, the “to form a more perfect Union” is the operant phrase there.

                China is already a more perfect Union than the US because of one party rule, more things done in one party rule. How did China get to be here in just 20 years? By pruning!!!

                The US, which IMHO is a better model, accounts for less pruning. No pruning IMHO is best.

              • chemrock says:

                @ Lance

                I outlined in my reply in the previous blog. “karl’s inflation bug” is wrong. Nothing against Karl. He brought that out because yeah, it made sense for his argument. But I say it is wrong because no one can just go in and change the Bitcoin core code. That is the security offered by a decentralised system. That is the sovereignty the crypto universe loves, and as also expressed by Gian.

              • Karl Garcia says:

                I have been spending too much time with LCX, that I question everything and find a convenient argument that fits and continue to argue even if proven wrong.
                (Joke of course)

              • That’s the beauty of gaslighting. It lures you down the rabbit hole and then you are lost. One of them, fangs and all.

              • LCPL_X says:


                A checkmate is a checkmate, and Joe has not done that yet. But I don’t think this is a game with a checkmate, its a definitions game and a best practices game, in which differences will exist. So no one’s wrong just yet.

                chemp, thanks for this. I understand that , but Bitcoin blockchain has been touted as tight, well if that happened, even if as you say still secured in context of the wider system, my point is that it will be a source of suspicion.

                I’m already suspicious why this isn’t easily Google-able.

                And since a lot of this Bitcoin popularity is essentially based on propaganda, I still don’t really now the technical computer science aspect of all this, thus will defer to folks like gian, et al. But

                for me as a lay person in all this, doubt has been cast.

              • I have no interest in check-mating you, but great interest in figuring out how to hold onto sense in a world that is thick with deceits, ignorance, and nonsense. Fallacies abound. You use them, Chempo has just thrown a batch against the wall, Sharp is off in some la la land battle over my editorial prerogatives, and Karl is spinning fast, fast in the wind. Irineo is reading comics and kasambahay is laughing at us.

              • Hahaha! I wonder if there is a ‘throwing a ton of shit against the wall’ fallacy because that’s what Chempo has just done. It’s impossible to respond and I suppose that’s the intent. Don’t try to solve problems or disagreements. Make them worse! 😂😂🤣😂🤣🤦‍♂️

              • There is! Argument by gibberish! 😂🤣😂🤣😂👏👏👏👏👏 “It can also be a “snow job”, AKA “baffle them with BS”, by someone actually familiar with the jargon.”

              • LCPL_X says:

                karl: “and find a convenient argument that fits and continue to argue even if proven wrong.”

                Nor I you, Joe.

                But I was responding to karl. Difficult to prove wrong or right here because this is more about perceptions and preferences, I like disagreements, you don’t. Whether one is better than the other in a democracy, is the issue. Obviously I’m saying the more the better.

                If Joe says agreement is better, how do you prove that? Thus this is not the type of argument that begets wrong or right, karl.

                For example, chempo below posted on Georgia election, i’ve not heard of it, so I’m gonna Google it. Before saying chempo you’re wrong outright, I’m gonna do some research then counter, because I’m operating from the assumption that Trump couldn’t prove it then, how now?

                But I’m not gonna say chempo, that’s none sense! You conspiracy theorist! Hear him out. Engage and interact, that’s democracy.

              • I’m willing to. One topic at a time. He needs to document his statements though.

                “A false authority is an authority figure whose authority is invalid in a certain context because there is a problem with their associated credentials or expertise, such as that they’re irrelevant, dubious, insufficient, or missing entirely. For example, an actor who has no medical training but encourages people to use a certain type of alternative medicine is considered a false authority, because they lack relevant credentials or expertise.”

              • LCPL_X says:

                “I’m willing to. One topic at a time. He needs to document his statements though.”

                Then we’re in agreement , Joe.

              • Karl Garcia says:

                Spinning is a heavy fallacy, thanks for pointing out my tendency to spin fast in the wind. It should stop. Here I am telling sharp to be straight forward not noticing that I am even worse.

              • Ha! No! No you are not! 😂🤣😂

              • chemrock says:

                @ Lance
                Regarding cheddar cheese, I’ll pass anyway.
                But you never pay attention. I did cover that in the video. Not as a hack, but about the possibilties of changing the 21m.

                Re your googling re the AZ audit, you are only going to see controlled views. Conservative views have been ably blocked out.

              • @Chempo, “Conservative views have been ably blocked out” Where do you come up with this stuff?

              • LCPL_X says:


       <<< I asked several times.

                I did ask it asking the question if 21M can be changed, and you never answered. If I didn't catch it in the videos, you can't expe ct me to pay too much attention especially with robotic sounding chempo narrating, lulls me to sleep! Prove your own points!

                So cheddar cheese still goes to karl.

                karl, don’t let anyone Kanye West your cheddar cheese.

                chemp ,

                You have to make your own points, we can’t make ’em for you. If you say I can’t Google this stuff, how do I verify all this and counter your arguments? It’s like youre Moses and you’re the only one that can go up the mountain.

                Prove your points, man! This geisha showing upper thigh routine does not befit you!

              • chemrock says:

                Re bitcoin and tight code — the point is mute. I’m not claiming the cheddar.
                Open source — anyone can have excess.
                Decentralised — non one can control the codes.
                It is understood. There is no need for me to dwell on a point that for me won;t happen.

                About proving fraud — it’s gonna take 50 pages for me. The court cases they present 600-700 pages, nobody bothers to read.

                Somewhere in the comments here, I illustrated just one example just to demo that it’s not empty talk. There’s a lot of substance in these claims.

                As my caveat that you won’t find in googling, it’s fact. The many things that I have come to learn about, I can never see them with google search.

              • LCPL_X says:

                “About proving fraud — it’s gonna take 50 pages for me. “

                Ah, c’mon, chemp. Don’t be coy!!! Show it already, don’t tease us. Such a tease!!!

                No need for 50 pages, just one paragraph or two.

              • chemrock says:


                Re the tweet.

                Leftist expletives as a substitute for discussion seems the norm because I see it all the time.
                I guess he does emphasise that he is right and Cruz is wrong.

                Off the cuff logic.
                Covid has been around for quite a while.
                Texas had been having a relatively low infection rate compare to several red states.
                Then came the immigrant deluge.
                Then positive cases went up.
                I wonder how Aristotle will compute in his sagely brain.

              • Hey, I’m with the second guy. His literary expression is spot on. Fallacious reasoning of Cruz is nonsense.

            • Micha says:

              Geez corporal, you seem to be such intellectually inquisitive dude, why have you fallen for the bitcoin ponzi scam?

              • LCPL_X says:

                All my arguments still stand in chemp’s blog, Micha.

                But karl has opened my eyes re inflation bugs; though, you and chemp never brought that up in our arguments so no cheddar cheese for you; only karl. So karl is number 1.

              • Micha says:

                You still believe bitcoin is here to stay?

              • Bitcoin seems to be the mother of all conspiracy theories to me.

              • LCPL_X says:

                That’s a good question. Let me read further on this inflation bug stuff.

              • chemrock says:

                @ Micha

                Lance was referring to an article that Karl shared which basically pointed out the Bitcoin protocol is open source which means anybody can change the source codes. The deflationary argument about bitcoin is the cap of 21m tokens. So Karl and Lance point is that the deflationary argument is easily busted, anyone can go in and change the source codes.
                I was just trying to share that technical possibility is not the same as practical possibility. No one can do a protocol hack in a decentralised system.

              • Karl Garcia says:

                I submit.
                and I am not clsiming any cheddar cheese so no need to Kanye West my Taylor swift moment.
                I never said it was easy and open source.
                No one can do a protocol hack in a decentralized system
                But with AI and Quantum computing.And all the know your client data around due to financial surveillance.
                At least secuing of bit coin wallets needs more risk managenent.
                If there is still bitcoin when Quantum Computing arrives.

              • LCPL_X says:

                Whether you accept said award or not its still your award, karl.

                “CHEDDAR CHEESE 2021”
                >>>>> karl garcia <<<<<

              • 😂🤣😂 Get him a cheese hat from Wisconsin.

              • Karl Garcia says:

                That I can keep together with the certificate without having to worry who ate my cheese.

  3. Micha says:

    Haha, maybe it’s because you’ve been hanging out with Mr. Lacierda and Ms. Valte on twitter sphere Joe.

  4. i7sharp says:

    I came upon this just now (a few minutes ago):

    **The conspiracy subreddit is a thinking ground. Above all else, we respect everyone’s opinions and ALL religious beliefs and creeds. We hope to challenge issues which have captured the public’s imagination, from JFK and UFOs to 9/11. This is a forum for free thinking, not hate speech. Respect other views and opinions, and keep an open mind.** **Our intentions are aimed towards a fairer, more transparent world and a better future for everyone.**
    Let us see what “Joe” says about or does with it.

    • Well, for one thing, your persistent animosity directed at “Joe” is dirrrty thinking. For another thing, presenting or “peddling” one side of an issue is not good critical thinking. It persists with the misrepresentations and lunacy that characterizes modern debate, especially from wild-eyed Trump fanatics.

      Tell us, “Sharp”, what do democrats in Congress think of the audit? That is, what is the “other side” saying? Can you put it to paper in a dry, analytical way? Or are you just a bucket of emotional hostility like so many conspiracy theory mavens?

      • chemrock says:


        This is’nt partisanship argument. Not a pro him or her. It’s looking at evidences now.

        But you do really need to tune in to those Arizona senate hearings and watch the evidence being presented. You really need to pop into the Arizona audit which had live online streaming 24×7 at every corner in the room. Sorry if you had’nt because the show there is over.

        Since anything coming from the conservative side appears conspiratorial to you, I wonder if you have read the report of Carter Jones, or even heard of him. He is the contracted independent election monitor appointed by office of the Secretary of State, Georgia. He went all over the state during election and he recorded everything that he saw. His records took the form like a diary. He submitted a very damaging report. All that he saw and reported conformed with all the various affidavits of witnesses who saw wrong doing. Rafferberger had possession of the report and knew in early January about the wrong doings of the election board. But he kept quite and threw Trump under the bus. That reports leaked out 2 months ago and Rafferberger had to do a 180% flip. He now demands the resignation of the election board on account of what he has now learnt. He certified the election with full knowledge there was fraud. Now that he is facing possible litigation, he is trying to play patriot games.

        No mainstream media reports about Carter Jones.

    • Micha says:


      How about this for perspective?

      “Arizona county election officials have identified fewer than 200 cases of potential voter fraud out of more than 3 million ballots cast in last year’s presidential election, further discrediting former President Donald Trump’s claims of a stolen election as his allies continue a disputed ballot review in the state’s most populous county.

      An Associated Press investigation found 182 cases where problems were clear enough that officials referred them to investigators for further review. So far, only four cases have led to charges, including those identified in a separate state investigation. No one has been convicted. No person’s vote was counted twice.

      While it’s possible more cases could emerge, the numbers illustrate the implausibility of Trump’s claims that fraud and irregularities in Arizona cost him the state’s electorate votes. In final, certified and audited results, Biden won 10,400 more votes than Trump out of 3.4 million cast.”

    • Micha says:

      And there’s former Attorney General William Barr, who backed up so much of Trump’s insanity, only to see the light after he left the job, telling ABC News journalist Jonathan Karl for his new book, “Betrayal,” that Trump’s claims of election fraud were “all bullshit.”

  5. i7sharp says:

    This article,
    Are Filipinos a Siphonophore?
    Posted by edgar lores on September 24, 2015
    produced a great number of responses (375 in all?).

    A good source or reference to help us in our present discussions, don’t you think?

    • Karl Garcia says:

      Yes that is a good reference, but have you at least tried to reply to Joe and Micha?

      • i7sharp says:

        I can tell you I have tried to reply to Joe but as you probably know some of my replies do not get posted.
        I have not yet tried replying to Micha. I don’t think I have ever had any exchanges with him/her,
        But I am forgetful. Much of what I had posted in the “siphonopore” article I have already forgotten. But what I saw in my postings (after a very brief browsing) I found to be not too bad, Can you point to something there that justifies Joe’s recent description of me?

        But let us try to focus on ideas that can help the Philippines. I have a lot to share, IIMSSM.
        Karl, any idea I have shared in the past that you want to criticize or think is bad?

        • The postings which aren’t published are challenges of the editor in the main, a complete waste of time. I also won’t publish any more preachy videos that make one-sided arguments or sly innuendo or are outright extremist ravings. I can’t advocate for sense and civility in discussions and then post stuff that makes my intellectual and moral skin crawl. You can take that somewhere else. Here you can talk about the Philippines in a helpful and ordinary way. It’s easy to do.

        • Karl Garcia says:

          If I may suggest for you
          not dwell on it, and not look for evidence in judgement calls of an editor.

          In my observation all admonishments were straight forward enough.

          Ok, I guess the rest is up to you.

      • sonny says:

        On Edgar’s blog on siphonophores:

        A. I miss him and his discussions.
        B. Edgar’s metaphor of the Portuguese Man-O-War and the Philippines is masterful and his essay is elegant and substantial. His use of the Taxonomy of Linnaeus is impeccable.

        • Karl Garcia says:

          One of our discussions was about Windmills and you posted the theme from Thomas Crowne affair: Wind Mills of your mind. Now we speak of Don Quixote.

  6. Yes, in the background of the President making a solemn speech.

  7. i7sharp says:

    May I ask who is being talked about here?:

    The Society of Honor says:
    July 18, 2021 at 7:37 pm

    He’s the man caught laughing in the background?

    Irineo B. R. Salazar says:
    July 18, 2021 at 8:54 pm

    Yes, in the background of the President making a solemn speech.

    Did I miss any links?

  8. chemrock says:

    Conspiracy theorists are behind every door and in every cupboard.

    I once had an argument with someone on Facebook. And all that guy did was grab a Wikipedia article and plonk in down as his response. Meaning Wikipedia is the social media Bible.

    Well I had news for him. Wikipedia co-founder Larry Sangher himself has warned that Wikipedia cannot now be trusted. It is pure propaganda.

    You see, good folks don’t do nasty things. We just defend reactively.
    Bad folks plan and so they are proactive. So they take pains to propagate their narrative. Wikipedia will mostly tell you Marcos Sn had all his gold long before he became president, that junior had remarkable achievements in Oxford, UK, Imee have not offshore bank accounts, and the Beautiful One is…. well really beautiful.

    • Well, if you know nothing about a new topic, wikipedia gets you started. It is written by people who have an interest or knowledge in the topic. Sometimes they inject spin that editors try to identify and clean up. Take it for what it is, not perfect, and it’s very helpful. The alternative is to become an expert through primary research, something few of us are in business to do. I use wiki often because my knowledge-goal is wide, not narrow. I’d estimate it is genuinely helpful 97% of the time, and shallow or political 3% of the time. It’s a good resource. Saying it is not is applying the ‘fallacy of the exception’, I believe.

      “The Exception Fallacy. The exception fallacy, also known as the stereotype fallacy makes a conclusion about a group of people based on observations of or data on one individual. For example, getting cut off in traffic by an older gentleman driving a car may result in the generalization that all old people must be bad drivers—a stereotype fallacy.”

  9. distant observer says:

    Are there sane conspiracy theorists too, or are they always crazy?

    I thought Vanity Vair, not necessarily the beacon of truth, but sometimes interesting, put it quite well. Under the headline “The Jeffrey Epstein Case Shows That Paranoia Is The Only Possible Response To This Moment” it says
    “It’s no wonder that half of Americans think Epstein didn’t kill himself, leaving only the other half, who think the same thing but won’t say it. The outliers are journalists, who not only believe the official story but insist the rest of us do so, too. […] one of the sadder developments of our time is that journalists seem on the whole to be getting less skeptical of authorities—with half of MSNBC looking as if it’s staffed by retired spooks and legacy newspapers citing political activists as if they’re disinterested analysts—even as most Americans are going in the opposite direction. Rather than convincing the public to ease up on this growing wave of distrust, the prestige press has instead joined countless other institutions in reputational erosion.


    “The other problem with our new predilections toward self-directed detective work, the tragic one, is that conspiracy theories are the product of lost trust. When you have reason to doubt the official story, or even the basic decency of those telling it, you’ll be hard-pressed to avoid formulating alternative possibilities. Because the reputation of our press has been as much in decline as that of any other authority, it can do little to quell even the stupidest ideas. Instead, our news outlets have done better at disseminating bad notions than debunking them.”

    The very same argument can be made for the Philippines too.

    While “The Woke” cheer the Silicon Valley’s censorship of disagreeing voices, the QAnon people still believe that Trump (a quite good confidant of Epstein btw) will give his presidential comeback this summer.
    Who is the arbiter of truth? Facebook’s Mark or Twitter’s Jack? Censorship does not counteract conspiracy theories, open debate does. As painstaking it might be.

    I for my part, if someone labels me a conspiracy theorist because I point out the fact that World Trade Center 7 collapsed completely on 9/11, without ever being hit by an airplane, I quickly lose my interest to discuss such a topic further.

    • LCPL_X says:

      chempo: “Rafferberger had possession of the report and knew in early January about the wrong doings of the election board.”

      link from distant observer: “When you have reason to doubt the official story, or even the basic decency of those telling it, you’ll be hard-pressed to avoid formulating alternative possibilities.”

      In the case of Carter Jones’ report, he himself said there was no fraud. So the report is moot.

      What then is the alternative possibility? Because essentially Trumpists are just exploiting this report when it was just some mysterious report, but now the author of that report has concluded no fraud. What now? If you’ve built a conspiracy around a report which the author contradicts, said conspiracy falters.

      ATLANTA (AP) — Election processes in Georgia’s most populous county were badly managed, sloppy and chaotic, but there was no evidence of fraud, said an independent monitor who spent many hours over several months observing county election workers.

      Detailed notes kept by Carter Jones over the week of the general election in November and obtained by The Associated Press challenge many of the allegations of fraud and misconduct that have circulated since the election. They chronicle everything Jones saw in Fulton County from the evening of Monday, Nov. 2, the day before the election, through late Saturday, Nov. 7, when the last ballots were counted.

      “It’s not what it looks like during the election. It’s what happens after the election and what it looks like at the end,” Jones said in an exclusive interview with the AP on Wednesday. “Fulton was able to make their numbers zero out and there was nothing that should challenge the certification of this election.”

      • chemrock says:


        You make your comments without reading Carter Jones’ report. So APNews is your Bible.

        Carter Jones made a 29 page report and the followed up by another 14 page report. The first report contained many observations of wrong doing. The second report also made additional observations.

        You can view the 14 page report here;

        Carter Page never wanted the job in the first place. But was asked. He did his job well and reported what he observed. For months Raffenberger took not action. It was a clean election he said. Jones kept quiet. When his report leaked, he flipped his story. But too bad, his reports are available. That’s why Raffensber is singing a different tune. He is calling for the election board to resign and he is also calling for an audit.

        • LCPL_X says:


          Both of them are saying no fraud.

          Essentially he’s saying sure review it again, to shut conspiracy theorists up! Another scam like AZ, obviously taxpayers will not agree with this, so private entities like China and Russia will gladly pay, so again private review.

          We circle back to our AZ audit debate, only this time theres no plane circling around , chemp. LOL!

          Q: So, if there was no fraud, what’s the value of this review?

          A: At the end of the day, I believe if you have the right levels of accessibility with transparency and the right procedures in place, and you make sure you have the oversight of this process, then you’re going to get results very similar to what we got in November. We did a 100% hand recount, a hand audit. Every single absentee ballot was counted again. Every single early vote was counted again. And every single day-of-election ballot was counted. Every single one of those ballots, all 5 million, have been recounted by hand. And we got virtually the same result. So hopefully, this puts it to bed.

          … We have a paper ballot, which allows us to do these recounts. And that’s a good thing. Because, at the end of the day, when it’s recounted and you keep recounting and you keep getting the same results, this should put it to rest. And then we can move forward.

          • I read the report and came to the same conclusion. The report detailed what went well and where there were problems, for the benefit of future poll managers. I googled for more info on the report and came up with one right wing publication that described the honest post mortem as showing a ‘hugely flawed election’. So basically it’s a gigantic deceit or case of self-confirming bias feeding into Trump’s strategy of claiming the election was stolen from him. It was not. The Trump base is trying to steal the election from the American People, unified, no political persuasion. So people like Chemrock are knowingly or gullibly doing what Trump is accusing pollsters of doing: fraudulently stealing the election.

            • I presume it is a fraud to claim fraud when there is none.

            • chemrock says:

              Maybe you want to read the 29 page report.
              He observed a littany of integrity issues. If double scanning falls within your understanding of ‘flawed’ vs criminal, I have nothing to say.

              Bear in mind, you totally rejected all those claims by voters, whistleblowers and witnesses. And I guess you are unfamiliar with lots of those claims. Therefore, your context when reading Carter Jones’ report is entirely different.

              Click to access Unabridged%20Notes.pdf

              • @Chemrock, You know, a lot of good people work the polls. Many are volunteers. They do their best. I think people who want to leverage the errors of their ways to try to make them carry the burden of an election that did not turn out the ‘right’ way are despicable people. Yes, you are working against my bias and the sloppy arguments, the fallacies, the failure to document . . . they are shutting the door tight. I question your motives, for it is not honest discovery.

              • LCPL_X says:

                that’s why its “conspiracy” theory, joe, because although everyone knows there a bunch of moving parts , conspiracy theorists focus on the assumption that either one group or one person is taking control , or everyone just being complicit being bad.

                In the end it s about zero’ing out the ballots. So Cater Jones is correct its messy but no fraud.

              • The two main conspiracy theories in the US seem to be the “big lie” that Biden defrauded Trump and that vaccines are a scam. I suppose BLM is in there, too. It’s a shame that some people have to die so others can prove intellectual superiority to satisfy their emotional needs, or to promote a political agenda.

                The Philippines pretty much is a conspiracy culture in which star-worship (extension of self), the badness of success, and a host of rites and beliefs inspire people to live in the nether world between logic and voodoo thinking.

          • chemrock says:

            Carter retracted verbally, I would too if I were him. I don’t want to be cancelled. But too bad his reports put his boss in hot soup.

            Raffensberger proclaimed clean election. Lied about the Trump call to get him votes. After Carter’s reports surfaced, he asked for the resignation of the Election Board. If it was so clean, he should be kissing the asses of board members, should’nt he?

            After the reports surfaced and the judge ordered the inspection of the ballots, he supported the audit of the ballots.

            • LCPL_X says:

              Then the judge is your proof in all this, chempo.

              Carter and Raffenberger said no fraud.

              If the judge said there’s evidence of fraud.

              What was the minimum evidence presented that the judge accepted for this court order?

              That s public info.

          • chemrock says:

            After election, there is a usual audit. This is just a random count audit. GA did the usual. Audit was in Nov 2020. After which Raffensperger proclaimed the audit was clean.

            Raffie used the firm Pro V&V. It has been revealed Pro V&V was not a certified auditor at the time. (firm needs to be certified by Fed Election Commission). On the basis of this audit, Rafie proclaimed a clean audit. He made a report which was posted on the official website. Any querry on the audit gets pointed to Raffie’s statement. The audit report itself was never posted.

            After an FOIA request, Rafie finally submitted the following to requester :
            1.memo from Pro V&V signed by Jack Cobb to Michael Barnes, a director in the Center for Election Systems GA. Jack is owner of Pro V&V. Memo was to info Barnes of the audit requested by office of Raffie and requested for equipment at selected counties they will audit.
            2. email dd 12 Nov 2020 from Barnes to Jack. Email said ok go ahead.
            3. copy of pdf of audit report.

            Sweet is’nt it. There you are folks, they have documentary proof to show audit request and audit work.

            But the devil is always in the details. Crooks always get caught by the smallest of details. Here’s where they have a huge problem.

            a). Memo (1) was dated 16 Jul 2021. A careless mistake They got careless and got caught by anachronism. And don’t ask me to prove the memo actually came from Cobb. Firstly the 3 documents were sent by GA sec office under FOIA. Secondly the memo has been metadata tested and proven to indeed coming from Cobb.
            b). Cobb’s memo (1) mentioned 4 counties they had been asked to audit. Their audit report (3) mentioned 6 counties they audited. They got caught by carelessness.
            c). The audit was simply a check on 2 pieces of equipment. There was no ballot audit. No ballots were counted by auditors.

            Raffie tried sloppy anachronistic attempt to demonstrate a post audit and ballot count was conducted in Nov 2020, on which basis he proclaimed the GA audit was clean. This is criminal.

            There Lance. This is real journalism. Pursue evidence. Go FOIA. Affidavits, Witnesses etc. Not leftist mainstream media.

            • chemrock says:

              Oops forgot the evidence.
              Here na

              • LCPL_X says:

                This one’s got some meat, chemp. Good one.

                I see the underlying assumption is that those are the only two parties involved in watching elections.

                Like I said in our last discussion, these things are done county by county, with GOP and Dem minders, there are volunteers, there are universities involved too , including all public entities.

                The notion that it all comes down to Pro V&V is not realistic. There are other checks and balances involved. I will bet my left nut that Pro V&V are run and owned by Republicans, that Jack Cobb is a card carrying Republican, just based on his photo in Google.

                With that same vein of thought, Trump should’ve been President, my point why couldn’t they have cheated the other way, and in fact after the 2016 election, in 2017 when those Russians surfaced they did exactly that, questioned how Trump won.

                And again nothing was found.

              • Here is the report from which Chemrock drew his good journalism. Do consider the author’s credentials after the report, and the venue in which the publication operates. The matter is fresh so it’s not possible to know the fall-out yet.


              • The same report ran on other extreme-right media. One response to the ‘explosive” news was this:

                “One thing to keep in mind regarding the “memo for field audit.pdf” with a date of July 16.
                The email from November 12 contains an attachment, “Memo for field audit.docx”
                The PDF was authored by the CEO of Pro V&V.
                This could clearly be a case where, simply, CEO was asked to provide that document and instead of sending the original Word doc, printed it to PDF (“Acrobat PDFMaker 11 for Word”) on the 16th. The date on the memo header may be an auto-filled field using the system’s current date/time.
                Can’t say definitively that’s what happened, but it could be a completely innocent explanation.”

              • LCPL_X says:

                For example, in precincts that tend to vote 90% GOP or Dems, they can afford no minders, I doubt GOP minders drive all the way to say Compton. But in contested areas, where it goes 60% one way one cycle, then 60% the other way, there will be people keeping a close eye.

                Thus just because an email is back dated, doesn’t really prove wrong doing.

                If indeed it is criminal as you’ve stated, where is the case against Reffensberger or Jack Cobb? I gotta feeling unless they both were conspiring to defraud the American people, specially Georgians, you’ll get qualified immunity for them too,

                Jack Cobb, I’m sure will be able to produce Fed and state level certifications for his machines.

                So it all comes back to where is the fraud? Wheres the evidence, chemp?

              • Related, reflecting the hostility between Trump’s people and Georgia electoral officials, we have this court document:

                Click to access STATE_DEFENDANTS%27_RESPONSE_TO_THE_COURT’S_ORDER%2C_%5BDOC.%20957%5D.pdf

              • chemrock says:

                There are a lot of meat on the table.
                I just don’t have the time, neither the interest to knock against walls.

                That last comment FOIA — do you think you can google mainstream media? Fat chance.

                By the way since on FOIA and cospiracy — there was one regarding Seth Rich’s killing. Conspiracy had been swirling it was a hit job because he gave Hillary’s emails to Julian Assange. For years FBI claimed they had nothing on the case. After FOIA FBI finally revealed they had Seth Rich’s laptop. Lots of emails were turned but heavily redacted tll meaningless. FBI retained certain documents, so new FOIA was submitted. This time, FBI forgot to appeal in time and forfeited their right to reject requests. So instead of submitting to the FOIA they simply publicised those documents.Some very very interesting stuff were there. There was discussion by some people of assasinating Seth Rich.

            • Karl Garcia says:

              The mailroom set the dates in PDF to automatic. No Mystery here.
              The so called check in the email server means nothing, it just means that on that date an email was sent, it does not mean that the same document was not sent earlier.

              Another red herring.

              • And one that extremist publications shout to high heaven as the ‘smoking gun’ of fraud. Even Chempo raved about the great journalism. Nope. Conspiracy fraud, most likely.

              • Karl Garcia says:

                We will not just sit here and not do some fact checking our selves.
                All of us here had been fair in counter-checking Chem’s claims.
                Unfortunately I can’t understand the claim that google is biased, but I still use it, same with wikipedia.
                There is more that I do not understand, but as Chempo says, it will take 50 pages. Hehe

                But I agree that is fraud to claim fraud without proving it and claiming that no right to discovery was given.

              • Well, Chemrock is a smart fellow. I have no idea what leads a person down a rabbit hole. But it helped me refine my understandings. Here’s what I published on Twitter a while ago:

                “A conspiracy theory is when knowledge is replaced with a guess and defended to preserve one’s reputation. A conspiracy fraud is when liars make something good look bad, then sell it to gain personal advantage.”

              • Karl Garcia says:


        • Karl Garcia says:

          The 14 page repor by Carter Page

          Was about the processes.

          Some of the things I read.
          He reported lapses by temporary staffers and offfered a solution of more training.
          To avoid data entry errors, like the addresses of absentee voters, etc
          There will always be a problem in terms of cost and little time.

          Permanent staffers are not overwhelmed after the elections, but they will be be months before and during the election, so they hire temps, time is spent for recruiting and hiring those that no longer need training on the basics only the need to learn stuff.
          More training time as you often tell me is: “not practical.”


          • Karl Garcia says:

            But for the recounts they might need another batch of temps.

          • chemrock says:


            Yes it’s a report on lapses. That was Carter’s job. He was a resource to monitor and report so they can improve the process. Nothing wrong with that. But the reports showed tremendous wrong doing and yet the Secretary said we had a very clean election. The first report showed a lot of the lapses reported by voters. One lapse is excusable, 2, 3 maybe ok. Where will you draw the line?

            • LCPL_X says:

              If its not fraud its not fraud.

              lapses is not criminal, chemp. you have to prove conspiracy.

              That’s the whole point, what’s the criminal evidence in all this?

              The judge’s court order is your best proof. not in speculation and conjecture.

              • chemrock says:

                Well OK if you accept double scanning of ballots is not fraud then it’s not fraud.

                Can I ask you an off topic question? Just curiosity. In the US, as an average ordinary guy going about my everyday existence. Doing ordinary every day stuff — go work, buy this and that, go for movie, go watch NFL, NBA, go bank, take social security,buy petrol — just everyday things. Can I get by without having any ID of sorts?

                Can anybody live without having an ID?

              • LCPL_X says:


                a crime is compose of two things generally the intent and the action, the crime.

                Double scanning , is fraud if the intent was to do so. Since no courts have deemed it crime, why should we conclude thus?

                As for ID’s , theres plenty of illegals here that don’t have IDs, some have fake IDs (but not lately because IDs are more difficult to fake these days). But yeah, I’d venture its pretty easy to live your life here as undocumented, for example county hospitals don’t ask for papers as a rule.

                Filipinos call them TNT, for Tago Ng Tago, hide and hide. You don’t really have to hide, though I think if you were Icelandic and decided to go TNT here, you’d have a more difficult time because no support system, but

                if you’re Indian from India, Hispanic, Chinese, even African nationals, there’s plenty of sub-communities and church groups that offer help. Medical is the least of your concern because of county.

              • LCPL_X says:

                I know illegals who had bank accounts and owned homes, but I didn’t really know how, so Google said this is how,

                While some undocumented immigrants pay for their homes in cash, others have been able to obtain little-known ITIN mortgages. ITIN stands for individual tax identification number. ITINs were created to enable tax payment by foreign nationals who are not eligible for a social security number but own businesses or assets in the U.S. But since its creation, the program has also been used by undocumented immigrants living in the U.S. Undocumented immigrants can use ITINs to open bank accounts and pay taxes on their U.S. income.

                Alterra Home Loans is one of the lenders that provides ITIN mortgages. They have issued about 300 such mortgages.

                “Out of all of the ITIN loans that we’ve done, we have had three loans pay off completely and we’ve had zero loans default or go delinquent,” said Jason Madiedo, president and CEO of Alterra. To take out an ITIN mortgage, borrowers have to save enough money for a 20 percent down payment. The mortgage is a 30-year-fixed rate mortgages. “So, it doesn’t adjust and there’s no prepayment penalty,” explained Madiedo.

          • chemrock says:


            It’s Carter Jones, not Carter Page.
            Page is a much much bigger conspiracy.

            • Karl Garcia says:

              Oops. I stand corrected.

            • Karl Garcia says:

              Why was I thinking of Carter Page. Freud’s excuse slip.

              Carter William Page (born June 3, 1971) is an American petroleum industry consultant and a former foreign-policy adviser to Donald Trump during his 2016 presidential election campaign.[1] Page is the founder and managing partner of Global Energy Capital, a one-man investment fund and consulting firm specializing in the Russian and Central Asian oil and gas business.[2][3][4]

            • Karl Garcia says:

              Now I know why. From your comment.
              July 20: 12:43 am

              “Carter Page never wanted the job in the first place. But was asked. He did his job well and reported what he observed.”

        • LCPL_X says:

          By Stanley Dunlap – May 21, 2021

          A Henry County Superior Court Judge will give a group of Georgia residents claiming many fraudulent votes were cast in the November election the ability to review 145,000 Fulton County absentee ballots.

          Judge Brian Amero ruled Friday in favor of nine plaintiffs that Fulton election officials must unseal ballots challenged by a group led by Garland Favorito, a self-styled government watchdog who will hire the firm to conduct the review.

          The review will be paid for by the plaintiffs, and its findings won’t change the election results.


          Seems like a big joke to me, ie. you guys wanna waste our time, you pay for it. Go on git. LOL!

          • chemrock says:

            This is the one and only judge who has allow complainant the right to discovery.
            Favorito has dug out lots of shit.
            I’m waiting to see how he throws it on the wall.

            It’s the reason why the election board members are now junking their election lawyers to criminal lawyers.

            • LCPL_X says:

              I read up on this case and it looks like its going nowhere, chemp.

              The plaintiffs were allowed a looksy, but unless they find “proof”,

              I gotta feeling this case will be thrown out. Again, unless theres crime found.

              There’s no crime mentioned , and the judge ruled qualified immunity because they’re just doing their job.

              Means Mr. Favorito will have to produce otherwise, no case.

    • There are many truths, I suppose, and we each become the arbiter of our own.

      • distant observer says:

        Well I’d say there’s only one truth. The issue is rather that each and everyone’s perception, and interpretation of that, differs widely. That’s why it’s imperative that we exchange our perspectives and learn from each other’s, in order to approach the objective truth, at least infinitesimally. That’s what happened at least in this comment section on the 2020 US elections. Hastily labelling someone a crazy conspiracy theorist is actually a disservice to finding the truth.

        Different topic: is there actually someone going to write an article on the late Noynoy Aquino? I don’t think I’m in a position to do that, but his life and legacy would merit a conversation.

        • No article on Noynoy Aquino is planned.

          Truths get shaded by self interests, so there is not always one truth, or the truth that exists is beyond our capacity to reconcile. That’s why wars are fought and critics abound. The ideal of arriving at that one objective truth is blocked by conspiracy theorists who replace knowledge with allegiance to a false idea. They are crazy from the standpoint that it is hard to get them to knowledge even if their lives are at risk. The anti-vaccine, anti-mask people being a case in point. Plus their illogic is crazy-making so I’ve lost all patience with reasoning and slip easily into name-calling. But that’s just my context. You are free to work your own and try to work them back to knowledge.

        • In this rather lengthy video, (leftist?) journalist-now-talking-face Acosta calls the anti-vaxxers crazy, foxed-up so to speak. Late in the clip he shows a guy adamantly saying “there is no covid”. Isn’t Acosta obliged, in truth-saying, to call this crazy?

    • LCPL_X says:

      “But going through the scanned image, his technology can detect various frauds — such as duplicated ballots, mail-in ballots that were never mailed out in the first place, signature duplicity, unofficial ballot papers, etc.”

      chemp, I brought this issue down here since its Georgia related.

      There’s no need for tech if you’re hand counting, you simply need to match the registered voter with his/her vote.

      So if 1 person voted twice, you’ll have a 1 for 1 match, the voter registration to the vote.

      Same same with mail in, there’s the voter and their ballot.

      I assume signature duplicity is same with mail in. But again covered by the fact that theres registration.

      Unofficial ballot, again if a certain number exceeded the registered list, then voila! found.

      Mr. Pulitzers’ invention seem redundant. And unnecessary. This is the pollsters meat and potatoes!

      Again, let me post Carter Jones’ quote,

      “It’s not what it looks like during the election. It’s what happens after the election and what it looks like at the end,” Jones said in an exclusive interview with the AP on Wednesday. “Fulton was able to make their numbers zero out and there was nothing that should challenge the certification of this election.”

      • LCPL_X says:

        “The sharpies smudge the markings, thus invalidated the ballot which then goes to manual adjudication.”

        As for bamboo fiber papers, I just Googled it and theres zero evidence of it. That’s probably the easiest one to find, without even zero’ing out ballots, Hey this is bamboo paper! Trump’s president again!

        But nope no evidence of bamboo paper.

        In my experience , having mistakenly written on a white board with a Sharpie marker, those things don’t smudge. So I can deduce that smudging on bamboo paper would be equally impossible.

        Just right now I wrote “cheddar cheese” on a glossy fancy magazine paper with my Sharpie and no smudge. I assume it s a pretty easy theory to debunk, just get a bamboo paper write with Sharpie, voila! case closed.

      • I find it peculiar that Trump is willing to destroy Republicans who get in his way. So this is not really a political initiative other than how Republicans use it to avoid Trump blowback or gain advantage with their extreme-leaning base. It’s a megalomaniac at work, supported by a lunatic fringe. The fringe is huge, it seems, so maybe I need a different word. It’s this craziness, and my trying to operate in it, that was the reason for writing the blog article.

        • LCPL_X says:

          I agree, Joe. I’m having fun; whilst you’re probably getting an ulcer right now.

          As for Trumpists growing in scope, I doubt it. Sure he grew his 2016 votes in 2020, but I don’t think its increased since. And will increase in time for 2024, but still let him run if GOP fronts him.

          I assure you , I’m friends with Trumpists, and they don’t know the stuff chempo’s spouting, these were the same folks into QAnon, no more though.

          Like I said , I think they’re more into Bitcoin and crypto. I asked them if they donated to the AZ recount, nope.

          I’m plug into all this, but chempo is way off base now, he’s in Indian country. Like I said people here have moved on.

          • Well, I appreciate that you took up the matter. Saved me a lot of emotional energy. I’ve made the best of the discussion and formulated two ways to respond to extreme commentary: 1) honed my knowledge on fallacies; they are the dominant form of expression, and 2) learned to place the onus of documentation on the commenter rather than sinking into the troll-victim’s morass of defending things.

            • i7sharp says:

              “… honed my knowledge on fallacies”

              I came upon this
              Chasing the Ark of God
              about a year ago and shortly thereafter got in touch with the author.
              I pointed out something to him which he would not address (as far as I recall).

              If asked, I will share what I had pointed out to the author.
              Perhaps Joe (or Lance, others) can see the fallacy/ies right away?

          • chemrock says:

            Qanon is a false flag for heaven’s sake. You know, I actually hate it whenever a discussion on conservatism turns to Q.
            Prove to me Qanon exist. Who is he? Don’t show me his website. Show me who is he?

            So far you guys are the ones who always mention Q. I have never quoted on his authority. You must be nuts to listen to someone you don’t even know. I have never ever visited his website. I actually heard of Q maybe 4 years ago. Actually I heard about Q not from the political circles, but from an investment guy. What this guy said intrigued me a bit. He was working on a theory because he stumbled across data that showed a relationship between Q’s pronouncements and market movements.

            Joe we may not know in person. By our engagement we know for sure he is not a robot, that he is American, that he has views which have been consistent, he is authentic.

            • @Chempo, I never use Q, never have referred to it or him, because I don’t know what he/him is, or how to spell it. So you must be talking to someone else. Also the idea that US ‘liberal’ media don’t count is nonsense. Each article has it’s sources, who are they? Each writer has his credentials, what are they? There are a number of fallacies to describe this erroneous argument. Scapegoating. Jumping to conclusions. Lying. Diversion. You fill your conspiracy with junk, hold knowledge at bay, and use bad reasoning to put them together. I have yet to read anything from you that is not agenda pushing empty ideas. You say judges can’t read 700 pages in 10 minutes, and LCX explains how courts work. I give you 40 cases that failed for a whole variety of reasons and you throw ad hominem at the whole judicial system. But I do give you credit for one thing. You are showing why I wrote the blog article. You are showing what modern debate is like.

            • LCPL_X says:

              I don’t know who Q is either,

              But it was the QAnon movement that started all the stuff you’re covering now, chemp.

              Qdrops were prophetic comments, almost Nostradamus like but less poetic, then

              you get people on youtube and blogs, doing exactly what that link shared by distantobserver, they played detective and connected the dots and creating unicorns out of ’em.

              I know only one prophesy that came true for QAnon, that was Epstein, but see QAnon just mentions how Hillary et al were pedophiles or catered to pedophiles, then Epstein got caught then comes his obvious suicide in prison.

              Perfect storm , from there QAnon went main stream, but that was his only legit prophesy if you can all it that. Dumb luck more likely.

              The last QAnon drop which precipitated the very subject you’re now covering is election fraud, and it was connected to all the stuff that happened with Smartmatic and Dominion in the Philippines, something QAnon was too familiar with.

              then everyone became auditors all of the sudden. There are no more QAnon drops. But the election fraud stuff remained.

              You may not know who QAnon is, or are part of this movement (now defunct ), but you are for sure touting their line, chemp. but hey its fun going down the rabbit hole with you, so long as Joe’s cool with it.

              I don’t mind.

      • chemrock says:

        re bamboo papers
        Go read my comments regarding bamboo papers. you totally misread my comments on bamboos.

        Unlike you and Dems, when you believe there was no fraud, you don’t want others to investigate.
        Jovan thought bamboo paper claim was raised. He can look at it in his process. What’s the big deal? If no bamboo, integrity scores 1 point. Screw the Mongolian prince.

        • LCPL_X says:

          chemp, my point was that the bamboo paper issue is the easiest to prove in AZ, why isn’t being leaked now? Because if theres bamboo paper , its checkmate, Trump won!

          But why no mention of bamboo papers still?

          • chemrock says:

            For your info, I never bite the bamboo angle. Because the Mongolian prince story reeks. I’m curious but ain’t dumb.

            All I said was Jovan said his technology can pick out all this stuff. All I was saying is that Jovan simply made that statement which basically said hey, my tech can pick out this stuff. If there was bamboo then the Mongolian guy is authentic. That’s all to it. Sane people talking intelligently. My comment was to show you from a sane comment by Jovan, all mainstream made a fool of him, like a Sherlock Holmes with his glass searching fr bamboos in the US. And what a pity you never pick up my point on the media, but like them, joke about the bamboo. You totally missed the woods for the bamboos.

            • Karl Garcia says:

              My reading was : Hey this Jovan has tech that can do wonders.
              But do not google him because he was ridiculed in the internet.

              • LCPL_X says:

                They are looking for bamboo papers in AZ, or were, since the audits complete now, chemp. No bamboos found. It doesn’t matter what Jovan says or what tech he has says, or Mongolian prince, or what media says, there’s no bamboo papers!

                Stick with the evidence.

                Otherwise that’s the first thing they would’ve leaked. If no bamboo papers it means Jovan and Mongolian and auditors searching for bamboo paper were all wrong.

              • Karl Garcia says:

                Off topic:
                In Loki Mobius was pruned in ep 4.

                So all this pruning rants was inspired or influenced by Loki?

              • i7sharp says:

                Perhaps this talk about Mobius and bamboos will take us closer ideas beneficial to the home country (with or without conspiracies – crazy or otherwise).
                I googled for mobius strips and bamboo.
                I can share ideas about bamboo but they might be shot down.

              • Karl Garcia says:

                Mobiius is a character played by Owen Wilson on a TV show called Loki, I got interested because LCX mentioned it. But wow I never thought of mobius strips which also happens to be paper.
                As to bamboo paper, you need lab techs and muctoscopes to find the alleged 40k disappearing paper. I doubt that the auditing firm will bother.
                This was a red herring straight from a Chinese restaurant.

              • Karl Garcia says:


              • LCPL_X says:

                In a way the sacred timeline vs. the chaos that would happen if there was none or the TVA didn’t prune, is about censorship. But Loki actually is a marketing ploy , sets you up for the next phase of Marvel shows.

                So I pushed backed on Joe’s premise, he was basically pro-pruning; I said no pruning is better.

                And Joe let me play it out with chempo, so without Joe pruning, though he pruned much of i7sharp i suspect, we were able to hear out chempo’s variant timelines, ie. AZ and Georgia, not yet PA though, but hopefully, he’ll share.

                So AZ is wrapping up now as we speak within a month or 2 we’ll hear what they discovered;

                Georgia looks like dead on arrival, they’ll only get to count 145,000 or so , if they don’t find anything no go. They wanted an AZ styled full audit.

                PA I’m not so sure.

                So the experiment here is what happens if you let these conspiracy theories play out, and we’ve proven I think that we can sufficiently expose them as simply gut feelings , no evidence, “Just wait, guys, something big is gonna happen” type crap.

                Thus why fear it, don’t prune, let these variant timelines play out, and if it has no merit it’ll shrivel up. No virile. If it has, then we’ll accept them as part of the sacred timeline.

                But why actively seek out conspiracy theories is a better question to ask related to Joe’s blog, I myself am only now aware of this (in this level of detail), but that’s just because I was countering chempo,

                I don’t actively seek out these things i have better things to do, well the UFO stuff I do, Bitcoin because that s zeitgeist , but no one I know here knows anything about these audits. People have moved on.

                So this is where Joe’s psychology characteristics come in, karl. But it was a fun ride, and that was my ancillary point, which Joe took offence to, ie. if you’re not having fun just take a break, you don’t have to ride the roller coaster everyday. this poem comes to mind.


              • Excellent summation.

              • I am struck by a vision of the riot at the capitol emerging out of a date difference that occurred when a doc file was transcribed to pdf. That’s not what happened – they were unrelated incidents – but it illustrates the fictions that are built up to satisfy people’s need to conquer. The US is a nation of Don Quixotes tilting at windmills in order to get a date. Haha! And they are being jabbed in the ass with a spear by Russians and Chinese.

              • Karl Garcia says:

                As Joe said excellent summation. This thread made me appreciate your countering, earlier I was disagreeing with the way you disagree.Because, I kept on remembering when you said that there is no such thing as agree to disagree.But I am not good at showing how I disagree my self. This is a grand learning experience. What a ride from the rabbit hole and back.

              • i7sharp says:


                If I am not mistaken, Joe was referring to your post
                when he said, “Excellent summation.”

                In any case,
                I followed the link to Poetry Foundation that led to Wordsworth’s “Happy Warrior.”
                I think I have read the poem before – many times, probably but I have forgotten.

                Let me just mention, fwiw, that I sometimes still mistake Wordsworth with Wadsworth Longfellow.
                William Wordsworth (7 April 1770 – 23 April 1850) 251 poems
                Henry Wadsworth Longfellow (February 27, 1807 – March 24, 1882) 83 poems

                Wordsworth was probably more religious than Longfellow.
                Longfellow is not mentioned in the “Chasing of the Ark” that I have mentioned but his ancestor who arrived onboard the Mayflower was.

              • i7sharp says:


                “Longfellow is not mentioned in the “Chasing of the Ark” that I have mentioned but his ancestor who arrived onboard the Mayflower was.”

                Sorry, Joe, I realized my mistake right after I had pressed the “Send” button.
                I meant, of course, “Chasing the Ark of God.”
                And I should have just included this link – that mentioned John Alden:

  10. The Devil Unbound says:

    Your opening paragraph is perfect. Your article is rich, elegant, and a reflection of high intelligence.

    I’ll be coming around often.

  11. Kim Wooten says:

    Lel. Why would people put tracking devices on the vaccine when phones can do that better? Probably explains why these tracking conspiracies are still on the internet and not just completely offline.

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