The lion about to roar at Grace Poe: “Americans in the Palace!”
The Poe-Llamanzares family, with Senator Poe’s mother, Susan Roces [Photo credit: philstar]
Here are the three stations:
One: Grace Poe’s birth
I’ve been on record with a very determined – I’d say principled – opinion on Senator Grace Poe’s birth and parentage:
Senator Grace Poe’s parentage is irrelevant. She was born a Filipino. Imposing a DNA test (Marcos baby?) is ridiculous, as if a child cannot be allowed to stand apart from mommy and daddy. That would say we don’t have the intellectual grasp, the strength of character, to let people DEMONSTRATE who they are. It is a form of bigotry, of bias, of judgment not unlike racism. What is important are Ms. Poe’s deeds, as an adult. The same is true for Senator Marcos, I might add. However, that’s a different blog. [Refer to: “The Poe files: a little matter of parentage“, and to: “Poe Part II: Do Filipinos grasp freedom?“]
The particulars of Grace Poe’s birth are absolutely, totally, completely irrelevant. She was not transported to the Philippines by flying saucer, not flown here by DHL. She was born here, under circumstances that ought to be respected. She was born a Filipino, a citizen, automatically, by definition. Anything laid on top of that is mainly titillation or prejudice or an over-abundance of insecurity.
Two: Grace Poe’s citizenship
Grace Poe is a Philippine citizen. She only carries a Philippine passport. She was not a Philippine citizen for a good many years, the exact term depending on how the end points are defined. But it was not short, 15 years or more as a young adult. She was American. Her husband is American, and will evidently remain American. Her kids are American, and will likely remain American.
The particulars of dates and documents have to be sorted out to determine if she qualifies to hold public office and still qualifies as a “natural born citizen”. I get a headache trying to read the lawyers at top blogger Raissa Robles’ site as they parse the dates and documents and legalities of Ms. Poe’s citizenship record down to the spaces between words that she wrote on the forms. I shall leave the sorting out of that to the various qualifying and judicial bodies. That’s their job.
I just come to a point in the decision tree that will eventually go one way or another, depending on how the referees rule:
- If they say she is not qualified to run for the Presidency, or even be a Senator, case closed. The rules are the rules, just as it is the age rule that prevents Senator Bam Aquino from running for President in 2016.
- If she is qualified to remain in the Senate, and run for President, then we need to move past the legalisms to the matter of allegiance, for that is what is behind the citizenship rules.
Three: Grace Poe’s allegiance
Citizenship represents, to the State, a bond that gives the nation confidence that people – citizens – are loyal. It determines who gets full rights under the Constitution.
It seems to me that various qualification criteria for high government officials, notably age and term-of-citizenship, are benchmark standards. They are somewhat subjective, because what does one year mean in Bam Aquino’s ability to work hard and smart? He’s doing that now. Why is a 10-year citizen any more loyal or less a security risk than a 9-year citizen? What does the single-nation citizenship requirement really mean when loyalty is a mental construct, a decision, a commitment, and not a tattoo on the forehead?
The criteria mean very little as far as I can tell. Deeds say a lot more. Bam Aquino is already qualified in my book, no matter his age.
However, the criteria do satisfy our innate need to FEEL confident and secure in our leadership. The criteria reflect that we possess a dose of skepticism, of wariness, of mistrust, of an “abundance of caution”. It’s like we want someone standing guard around the campfire all night even if no beasts have been heard or seen.
The criteria represent an emotional checkpoint, more than anything. An assurance.
And I think it is Filipino emotions that will judge Senator Poe’s fitness for the presidency. Not years as a citizen or some other practical, finite matter like the forms she filled out.
The emotional hot button for Filipinos is likely to be:
“Americans in the Palace!”
I think the people have yet to realize or record their emotional reaction to Americans in the Palace, but as I watch my Twitter feed, I can sense that they are waking up to a certain discomfort.
It’s even a problem for me, an American. I am nervous about where her allegiances rest.
I wish the rules didn’t allow someone who is not born in the Philippines, and a permanent citizen for life, to be President. I wish the “10 year citizenship rule” were an “always a citizen” rule.
I don’t think I should be President, ever. I don’t think Inquirer columnist Peter Wallace should be president 10 years after he is made a Philippine citizen, even if he has been here since 1975. I don’t think brilliant Society commenter, Filipino-Aussie Edgar Lores, should be president in 10 years if he were to return to the Philippines and toss his Australian documents and allegiance.
Something is missing or diluted in people who have been citizens of other lands. Oh, something is added, yes, a depth of experience and awareness and adaption. But it’s like pouring sugar into water. It makes the water sweeter, but the water is also not the same. It is diluted, maybe even tainted.
I think real, “highest integrity” allegiance runs deep. It is the kind of devotion that drives soldiers to dive on live grenades to save their buddies, or firemen to run up a building fire escape as a building is collapsing (World Trade Towers), or people to choke up when the Philippine national anthem is played in a foreign land. It is a kind of dedication that can’t really be put into words. A person who was born in the Philippines and lives his or her life belonging to the nation is different than one who takes that allegiance elsewhere, or consciously gives up that deep, deep dedication for some material or lifestyle advantage.
Can newcomers like me learn to love the Philippines? Of course. Do overseas Filipinos who are citizens of other lands love the Philippines? Of course. But we are missing something, and that is the honor, the privilege, the integrity of being forever and always, Filipino.
To be frank, I also question the allegiance of a lot of Filipino citizens who have always been citizens. I can’t comprehend a patriot willing to steal taxpayer money, for example. Feed Filipino kids dirty bread. Take the clothes from their backs. Sell arms to the enemy. I can’t relate pride and sacrifice and a soaring heart – for the Philippines – to crass, manipulative, thieves and murderers who believe they are entitled BY GOD to steal from innocents.
Talk about high risk beasts and a need for wariness . . .
But back to Grace Poe.
My own personal wariness as to Grace Poe’s allegiance is a product of her deeds. It is cerebral more than emotional.
Judging by her deeds . . . not heritage . . . Grace Poe’s allegiance is fickle. It is fluid. It goes with expediency, not principle. Her avid willingness to criticize the standing government displays an odd lack of pride in the Philippines and the Aquino Administration’s considerable accomplishments.
Well, it’s much like her ability to offer up oaths here and there, on citizenship. To drop and swap allegiances as they suit her. Allegiance seems to be a tool for her, for her goals.
Her deeds, her words, here in the Philippines, in public office as a Senator, reflect that fluidity:
- What patriotic senator would insert herself into Philippine foreign affairs and suggest a change in direction is to be expected with regard to America, unless it is because the statement would be popular among Filipinos? [“Grace Poe: PHL shouldn’t rely on US in West Philippine Sea dispute“; GMA News Online]
- What realm of sacrifice for nation is embodied in her willingness to decline the offer of the Vice Presidency graciously presented by President Aquino?
- What was gained from the Mamasapano hearings she chaired with Senator Escudero? A political result castigating the President, generals in tears, secrets dumped into public view, integrity of earnest peace negotiators questioned, and the BBL in tatters. No healing. No uplift of the nation. It is a rather peculiar way to demonstrate care-taking of nation. But it was great for her popularity as she surfed deftly onto the Mamasapano rage.
- What was the meaning of her statement (again with Senator Escudero) saying that she did not support the BBL, a statement recanted the next day by Senator Escudero? What is the good Senator FOR, I often wonder. [“Poe, Escudero say they’re against BBL, lifting of limits“; Inquirer]
- What was gained by her refusal to support law and order over a reckless Iglesia ni Cristo church seeking to avoid a police investigation by staging a mass protest?
So I look for dedication to the Philippines, and I see political play, angling for popularity rather than what is good for the nation. I’m wary.
To tell the truth, I suspect that for many Filipinos, such logic will be irrelevant. What will be relevant is the widespread love/hate relationship that Filipinos have with the US, the hate attached to the history of a brutal Philippine American War and its attendant racism, the insult of occupancy, destruction of Manila in WW II, and US support of the brutal Marcos regime.
Their reaction, I suspect, will be simple. And visceral.
“Americans in the Palace?”
“No way.”
That is likely to be the toughest hurdle for Senator Poe to overcome.
The Society of Honor by Joe America 
Interestingly, just this morning, guess what Lani Robredo was talking about in the media…
http://www.abs-cbnnews.com/nation/09/14/15/we-dont-deserve-president-who-renounced-citizenship-leni
Yes, I did nod in reading about that. She does a good roar.
Who the fuck is Grace Poe that she will be deserving of the love and affection of every filipino? Tell me.
Well, I can’t say you said it well, but you said it blunt. You have to ask someone else, because I don’t quite get it, either.
I feel anger in my heart as I read your blog. Maybe because I know that not a few people don’t realize how serious the citizenship issue is and will just call out the ones who take this seriously as insecure, bitter or Martards.
Don’t be angry, mssyj. I suspect there are more like you than there appear to be. The realization has just not yet set in.
“It’s even a problem for me, an American. I am nervous about where her allegiances rest.”
If Philippine and American interests converge more so than oppose each other, shouldn’t this be a none issue?
A bunch of world leaders spent time or worked in the West, Aung San Suu Kyi, Ho Chi Minh, Basher al-Assad, etc.
Aren’t Pres. Cory Aquino’s youngest kids (all her kids for that matter) pretty much products of the USofA?
Couldn’t mere citizenship in this regard also just be a type of legalese? Didn’t Mar Roxas attend school and worked in the US?
The question should be is Poe a global citizen. What’s your take on this?
Would President Obama had been elected if he had dropped his US citizenship to live in Ghana or Kenya for 15 years as a young man making his way into the world, and then returned to become Senator and run for President?
The issue is an intangible that goes beyond intellectual rigor. It is more attuned to faith, and you are arguing the atheist’s position. I said early in the article that a person should be judged on deeds and not bias, and I suppose this “integrity/loyalty” issue can be set aside for the very strong of reason, which I’d imagine is about 0.001% of the Philippine population.
I’m articulating the views, emotional, intangible, that I think are material.
I agree, in the US it wouldn’t fly. Hell, Obama’s still getting flack (from conservatives) for attending a Muslim elementary school in Indonesia. So you’re right it wouldn’t go the opposite way over here.
For Filipinos though, since their allegiance is more to the US (arguably) than the Philippines, wouldn’t the fact that all these folks (the Marcoses, Aquinos, Napoles, etc.) are somehow connected to the US, a positive rather than a negative?
I’m definitely missing something here, and defer to your nuance on this. But my reading of Filipinos is that most think they are already Americans (or somehow related to the US, directly or indirectly), ie. their parents, aunts, cousins are in the US, would rather go to the US, marry someone from the US (US passport),
so why not vote Poe from the US?
The US was evicted in 1991, so I’d guess the admiration is at a personal level, for opportunity and good life-styles. On an institutional level, there is lingering wariness or outright dislike for the tendency of the US to dominate the Philippines. I think a lot of this is ghosts, but you do have people like Senator Santiago and leftist Walden Bello railing against ties to the US, and Poe got very close to that at the Mamasapano hearing but more mature people pulled her back. She wanted the relationship explicitly stated.
But I admit,I can be wrong on this. I try to read a lot of little signs and put them together as a generalization. If people were to say, “Yeah, but voters put an American in the Senate”, I’d say they put an actor’s daughter in the Senate, to join the other actors there. The presidency I’m thinking just might be a little different.
It is a complicated relationship, but at the ground level (today), I think the whole US citizenship will be a none issue.
“and leftist Walden Bello railing against ties to the US”
LOL! This guy’s based in Oakland, CA (we were just talking about Oakland!). How can you be anti-American and live in America?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walden_Bello
A lot of anti-Americanism is a reflex of the educated, especially UP crowd. Walden Bello of course is UP. For those who are not aware, UP was founded in 1908 and patterned after a typical American State University. Americans basically ran the place until 1945 and even after there were simply some who stayed in power until the 1960s, similar to the last Spanish priests who left their Philippine parishes in the 1930s. The generation that came in after them wanted to make sure “hey this is our turf” – and one should never forget that MRP is basically right, a large part of those who run the Philippine are educated by UP and learn their attitudes there. Santiago even taught at UP for a while if I am not mistaken.
The masa crowd on the other hand is NOT anti-American. They are in fact less US-influenced and speak “less better” English than the educated crowd, but they see the USA as a place where some relatives made it good – exactly like Edgar Lores observed.
It’s like the ME right now, everyone’s espousing pan-Arab or pan-Muslim sentiments, but people are leaving for Europe and not to KSA or Gulf States.
Galit po ang maliliit na tao sa isang AMERIKANO SA MALACANANG PALACE. Bakit naman kinakailangan na isa pang TUMALIKOD SA PAGKA PILIPINO ang magiging Presidente. Ito ang magiging sentro ng batikos kung tatakbo talaga si Grace Poe. Mahilig ang mga Pinoy sa mestiso at mestisa pero kung titingnan talaga, mas sumisikat ay yung tunay na mukhang Pinoy – sa pulitka: si Marcos at Magsaysay, sa pelikula: si Nora at si Sarah. Yung masa, gusto kamukha nila ang Pangulo nila.
caliphman
That is true. But without these senate hearings exposing to the public Binays corrupt dealings, he would have been a shoo-in as the next Philippine president.
Can’t compare exposing Binay’s corruption and plundering ways with exposing state intelligence secrets, no way Jose.
My Filipina wife keeps reminding me that it is the Tagalogs who are anti-Americans. She believes that the Visayans are pro Americans. She blames Tagalogs for mismanaging and misguiding the country.
We’ll see. I’ll not wager you. As for Bello, again, the distinction is love at a personal level, wariness at an institutional level.
It’s like the former NPA/Communists from over there in the 80s, instead of seeking asylum in China or Russia, they go straight to the belly of the capitalist beast. Same with MNLF/MILF types, instead of going to the ME, it’s to the US.
Ireneo‘s “schizophrenia” seem more appropriate.
I won’t wager you either, Joe. At least over here, I already know the Donald’s gonna win. Your race there is a bigger toss up.
Bello is a special case – he happens to be one of the darlings of the international new Left, meaning Attac/Occupy and those against globalization. His writings are often quoted internationally by that crowd – and happen to be of intellectually very high quality.
He would probably get along better with an American from that crowd than with a Filipino from the masa who would have no problem going to KFC and buying Nike if he has the $.
Bello was in the US for his Princeton studies (Sociology) when martial law struck. I would not venture to say love at a personal level, Joe. Many scholars like Walden were stranded physically and morally by that event wherever they were. Some were on their way home and proceeded to where their fortunes and dreams beckoned. The default position was where their dependencies were. This was class ’66, AdeM Arts & Sciences, anyway.
Sorry, Joe. S/B admiration not love. Dunno, haven’t talked to him in ages. 🙂
He is a smart guy, for sure. He’s a leftist who earned my respect, even if I disagree with him on a few matters. But I thought his anger fit on Mamasapano was a little overmuch. He lost his reasoning.
Bello’s reason for leaving Akbayan and withdrawing his support from Aquino was to protest the selective application of Daang Matuwid and making exceptions when it came to friends and allies. And my recollection of why the American role in the Mamasapano debacle was such a sensitve issue to the public and the senate hearings was not so much grandstanding on Poe’s part but news stories about the extent of that involvement. These stories had it that the paid informers in Marwan and Usman’s encampment were CIA and feeding General Purisima, that US special forces trained and equipped the SAF raiding force including the horrible maps in use, that US drones were observing the hostilities, that US military were with Napenas at his Agua Shariff command post, that one of this had asked if not ordered a Filipino division commander to provide artillery support, that these same personnel were later seen in the battlefield evacuating wounded SAF in a helicopter, and that Marwan’s finger with his DNA specimen was sent to an FBI lab in the US insteas of an NBI or military lab for analysis. Many of these stories were corroborated and the senate hearings would be remiss in its duty to investigate and inform the public of the US role and responsibility for the Mamasapano disaster.
It would be remiss of its duty to investigate in private session, but remiss as well if it informed the public of State secrets. It is a delicate line the Legislature walks, and it generally ought to be walked in favor of State defense rather than public’s desire to know secrets.
That is true. But without these senate hearings exposing to the public Binays corrupt dealings, he would have been a shoo-in as the next Philippine president.
“investigate and inform the public of the US role and responsibility for the Mamasapano disaster.”
I think the better question is why the PNP was tasked.
Because it’s the same dilemma as over here, whether to treat Islamic terrorism as a police matter or a military one. If the police is tasked, it means you handle things with the law in mind, the goal of prosecution and imprisonment. Tactics we can Monday morning quarterback all day, til the cows come home.
Pres. Obama’s playing the same game here, police or military, capture & prosecute, or bomb & deny. Operation Nemesis, http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Latest-News-Wires/2012/0202/Most-wanted-terror-leaders-killed-in-the-Philippines
“The ongoing withdrawal of U.S. SOF is a major move for the Pentagon because the mission in the Philippines is widely viewed as a model for how “foreign internal defense” should work, said Linda Robinson, a special operations analyst with the Rand Corporation. Under the concept, the Pentagon sends small amounts of highly trained troops to a foreign country that wants U.S. help and is willing to do the bulk of the fighting itself rather than sending in large numbers of American troops and equipment.
“The thing that made the Philippines such a good model was they maintained constant touch with the Philippine government and forces they were training,” Robinson said. “They didn’t come and go; they had them there consistently.”
http://www.oafnation.com/international/2014/5/1/us-special-operations-to-reduce-forces-in-philippines
Whether or not the Americans are prosecuting an FID campaign over there, is obvious– no need to investigate, sometimes advisors get in the mix (these are men that have bonded and have loyalty to each other, this part should be stressed but conspiracy theories are sexier), http://www.mensjournal.com/magazine/the-way-of-the-sniper-20130228
Is this a police or military matter, that’s the question– by that I don’t mean PNP vs. AFP, pettiness, I mean it broadly.
It does get strange to have police fighting terrorists. But the best way I can put it is that they are considered domestic gangs, and therefore within police auspices.
Joe,
But Americans don’t see them simply as a local threat, at least for JI it’s an int’l one. So the internal debate at least from the American side is not only Police vs. Military, but the old Title 10 vs. Title 50 difference, http://www.nationalsecuritylawbrief.com/cia-or-dod-clarifying-the-legal-framework-applicable-to-the-drone-authority-debate-2/
All these considerations are of course political, if something like the bin Laden raid necessitates Pres. findings, requires that Obama weigh options. Calculated risks are taken all the time, some times they don’t go well, ie. Operation Eagle Claw. The bin Laden kill could’ve resulted in all Americans killed.
Benghazi is a recent example, one closest to politicization of a military/police disaster, every disaster gets a movie, https://youtu.be/4CJBuUwd0Os
Right. I agree with your take on it, it is rather strange, but am trying to express why it is viewed differently here. It is clear that American intelligence was working with the PNP on the raid. Today’s headlines say an unidentified caucasian was among the dead, so maybe there was operating engagement. Big deal, that.
Until there are PMA graduates in the PNP chain of command. SAF fighting terrorists in the boondocks,is bound to happen again, and its founder FVR was PC, a military branch, so SAF will always have military color.But yes, SWAT tactics should be left in urban areas.
“For Filipinos though, since their allegiance is more to the Us (arguably) than the Phils, ….” i DO NOT THINK SO.
I watched a video where Kris Aquino was being interviewed and she said she asked Ninoy if they can just stay in the US and be Americans something to that effect and Ninoy said Hindi pwede Kris Pilipino tayo. Ninoy never renounced his Filipino citizenship even when he can apply for political asylum
Depending on how skilled their PR folks are, these things can be spun either way, ie. Yes, Poe became a US citizen, but her love for country was so great (legendary even!) that she and her American family left the promised land at the height of their success, to return to the pearl of the Orient, because in her heart she and her family are Filipinos.
By virtue of giving something big up, she’s just become super Filipino (man, I should be a PR consultant). Because as caliphman indicated those Filipinos that have done well outside the Philippines, don’t really have to go back. It’s a big gamble on their part, so in playing the who’s LESS American game, weight of sacrifice should be considered.
Maria Clara, if you are in fact Kris Aquino, I just want to say I have a big crush on you.
ooops, can you /b it after caliphman, Joe?
LC, the best answer to that is it was a political matter. Purisima had the intelligence and he called the shots because the CnC let him carry the ball. You been reading up on COIN topics. Pray tell, why and how would one task law enforcement with a COIN raid outside the US? i would love to know if the FBI has a secret program to have agents undergo tactical training for that over at Fort Bragg…hehehe
There’s none. Where police and military converge is in SWAT tactics. And you can’t use SWAT tactics in the boondocks.
We lost 17 operators in Somalia and that was not just from a failure in tactics, doubt if those get much better than delta force SOP’s. Many similarities in the two cases,find and neutralize top fugutive being protected deep in unknown enemy territory. In Somalia as in the Bin Laden takedown, the mission was tasked appropriately to special ops, the former was a failure and the latter a success principally because of superb intelligence. Any US sponsorship, planning, training and logistical support of the Masasapano operation failed to recognize the political nature of the entire mission, the folly of tasking the raid to essentially a law enforcement unit, the very poor quality of its leadership at command and tactical levels, among other things that should have been evident to US military intelligence operatives coordinating joint operations against terrorist and jihadist threats in the southern Philippines theater. If neutralizing Marwan was a joint US-Philippines priority, the simplest and most expedient would have been a Predator missle strike given that terrorist larget locations were available from informers inside their encampment. As I posted early, inteloigence was good, Purisima wanted to hog the glory, and Napenas completely botched the planning and execution of the raid!
“If neutralizing Marwan was a joint US-Philippines priority, the simplest and most expedient would have been a Predator missle strike given that terrorist larget locations”
Same with the UBL raid, they didn’t because, they didn’t know 100%. So they took a bigger risk going in and taking an even closer looksy.
Your assumption here is that the Philippine PNP and AFP (though they weren’t in the mix here), can’t do their own operations. It’s standard FID, if like Host Nation is non-existent then 100% falls on the US. If Host Nation has capability, ie. officer corps, experience, training, etc. then maybe 5% (arbitrary number simply for comparison) falls on US.
Personally, and I have no direct knowledge here, the decision was made to go with police handling of terrorism–that’s a policy choice. Maybe other units were seen as unqualified or for secrecy sake outside units were tasked. No one knows. But the US having learned all sorts of lessons from the War on Terror, would never recommend such an engagement.
Grace Poe’s renouncing her American citizenship in 2010 wasn’t sincere as she even applied for a U.S. Passport in 2011 if what I have read is true . I have nothing about Fil-Ams but in my opinion, if she wants to be president she should’ve never renounced her beloved country. She even promised to defend the U.S. against the Philippines when she took her oath. That for me says it all. She lacks delicadeza to still want to run for president. At least she should know where to draw the line like all other Fil-Ams.
At that time she has no plans yet to run for the presidency. She is only running now because the surveys says she has big chance of winning.
Do you know what’s special about the case of Poe? She renounced her citizenship. All the other people you mentioned didn’t. I hope you understood the article.
Global citizen? Charotera.
LOL! I had to scroll all the way up just to make sure you were talking to me, Renier. Charotera? Is that the same as Chuntera in Mexican? LOL!
“All the other people you mentioned didn’t.”
Again the difference isn’t so much in kind but in degrees.
The point is everyone in power over there has interests outside the Philippines, whether in the US or Canada. That should be the first order of business, lay everyone’s foreign interests on the table–then play compare & contrast. Allegiance and citizenship are toooo abstract concepts, you wanna see where everyone’s hedging their bets, you’ll see it in property, business & investments abroad.
How’s that for renounce?
They didn’t choose to be in the US. They were political exiles, and they didn’t change citizenship.
Some Filipino traits are very difficult to grasp for me. How they mix meters and inches, Fahrenheit and Celsius, kilos and ounces, American frequency with European voltage… . It seems impossible for them to make a choice or to impose a choice. Or maybe they never noticed the difference between the metric and the imperial world. Maybe it all depends from the circumstances, what you are measuring, who you talk to, where you are. Nationality might be a similar fuzzy notion, flexible, depending of the situation, especially with the millions of OFWs. What is the job at hand? Optimizing taxes, insurances, ownerships? Supporting for Pacquiao or Mayweather? Voting or fulfilling a mandate? Different situations resulting in different preferences.
Progress will require a stronger, a comprehensive national pride. A country and not Imperial Manila with its fiefdoms. A country first, a different “we” feeling, more then just the family. In this case one would vote for someone who has never compromised his/her national pride, someone who has roots in every direction with the country, education, family, business. Senator Grace Poe has to show extra assets to compensate for the minus points in this area.
But maybe too few voters care, maybe her hairdo and the color of her dress will be more influential.
Right. If Grace Poe came across as pro-Philippines and patriotic and supportive of the straight path, and made decisions for the well-being of the nation rather than personal popularity, she could diminish people’s wariness. But she is just another critic like Binay and Marcos, backbiting good people (Filipino citizens for life). Put that together with her opportunism in switching national allegiances, and it is a strong statement that she has – by deed – not done much to say anything but “I’m popular”.
Exactly.
Citizenship is not the issue.
I have no faith in Ms. Poe’s ability to run the country and I base it on one factor: decision making. Her actions provide enough evidence for me, that, when faced with a tough decision, she will always go for the popular option–nevermind if the unpopular one was the right choice.
She is absolutely adept at pandering.
She does have skills.
Progress will require a stronger, a comprehensive national pride. A country and not Imperial Manila with its fiefdoms. A country first, a different “we” feeling, more then just the family.
The mentality of most representatives Imperial Manila is WE are the Philippines and define what is right – who cares about masa, who cares about what is outside Manila. In fact it is a more dangerous mentality because those who have it are not even conscious of it – I know because I grew up as part of that elite, the intellectual not the business part of it, but I suspect the business elite is more or less the same. Having been in one of Europe’s most federal countries for long – and meeting Filipinos from elsewhere – has change me a lot.
Now back to Grace Poe. Eastern European countries often have had politicians who went to the US and even became citizens – but because they HAD to, fleeing hated Communism and often even more hated Russians. Now as for having been in the US, Noynoy also was, Mar Roxas was. And there is a certain schizophrenia in the attitude the Philippines has towards the USA: to some extent trying to be different, on the other hand they do identify with the USA, some do like Edgar Lores has duly noted. So how do you define FILIPINO?
As for allegiance and loyalty, many Filipino OFWs and migrants do not really care that much, one even told me “well for me the government and the country are the same thing”. If you look at it that way, that is very realistic. They know that they belong to the “caste” of people that will never have much of a chance in the Philippines, they have been treated rudely by their own people from the get-go, in their Embassies, at Customs and more. The children of many of these migrants have opportunities in their new countries they never would have had back home, because I know people who studied business management in night school and did not get jobs in some places back home because they used to be maids.This is the kind of social apartheid that leads to MRP-type attitudes, getting even.
In fact I believe that because Grace Poe comes from an artista family and has the common touch, many ordinary Filipinos will see here as being more one of their own than Mar Roxas, who will never be able to shake off his origins, it is something simply there just like I will never shake off my “educated” origins no matter how much I learn masa speak there is always something they see and feel. Citizenship, papers, laws – that for many masa is simply a construct that the ruling classes or their colonial antecedents created. He or she is one of us is something they feel in the heart, I don’t think that Binay’s supporters, if there are any left, would care if he had Kenyan citizenship. Until the formal and informal reality in the Philippines merge will take a lot of time. This is a gap that is often not perceived.
“Citizenship, papers, laws – that for many masa is simply a construct that the ruling classes or their colonial antecedents created.”
Perfectly stated.
Check. Put two very bright people, you and LCX, in the “non-issue” column.
yeah for sodas we still tell the tinderas can I buy 8 0z or 12 oz?. I still say 5′ 9 ” for my height and I don’t know my height in centimeters or meters.
During Marcos days going metric was attempted, we all had to learn the system. Of course in Europe everything is metric, except in England where there is a mixture of systems.
It was funny when the Russians tried to clone American PCs. They made equivalents to the 5 1/4 inch floppy disk but had to stick to the metric system and in Communism no deviation from rules. So what they made was almost the same but definitely not compatible.
you are just over six years older than me, so medyo contemporary tayo.
just multiply inches by 2.54 then you’ll get centimeters.subtract 32 from degrees farenheight, the result, keep it in mind,because you’ll multiply that by 5 over 9…
I still remember the song.
I know the song but too lazy to remember my height in metric. Thanks to Edgar, I will keep it in mind.
funny I don’t – but then again UP Elementary was never under DepEd (MinEd noon) so possibly we did not have it. I think I was Grade 4 or 5 when the metric stuff came.
http://www.sleeplessinkl.com/2011/02/16/subtract-32-from-degrees-farenheit
It’s easy to change from English to metric.
The system is fun if you know it.
So, let’s all convert from English to metric.
We’ll do it, and share it and show it!
Just multiply inches by 2.54 and there you’ll get centimeters.
The feet multiplied by 0.305 will you equivalent meters.
Multiply pounds by 0.45 will give you kilograms it’s true.
The gallons times 3.79 will turn into liters for you.
Subtract 32 from degrees Farenheit, the result keep it in mind.
Why, when you multiply that by 5 over 9, you’ll get Celcius just fine.
The yards and the miles are things of the past. Use meters and go kilometers.
So out with the English. We’re modern at last. The system of metric is better!
*******
That’s 175.26 cm or 1.7526 meters. (Just say, 1.75 meters for short… or tall).
*****
Thanks Edgar. 🙂
Are you sure?
I think 5.9 is taller…:-)
https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20101220135026AAJKmka
Edgar is the guru, yahoo answers must stand down. 🙂
I an 5.8 and all my live 1.78 cm..
If you with 5.9 like to be smaller it’s up to you..At least i feel taller.. 🙂
*******
Karl denoted his height in feet and inches: 5 feet 9 inches is different from 5.9, which is a percentage. As a percentage, 5.9 converts to 5 feet and 10.8 inches.
*****
So…i am taller… 🙂 Thank you Edgar ….i feel good.. 🙂
*******
You’re welcome… although I did not add a micromillimeter to your height. 🙂
*****
Joe – – you mentioned earlier that I am taking things personally.
Yes and no.
To me – – – -calling Grace Poe opportunistic for switching nationalities is questioning her character. She switched because she was required to. To serve certain positions in government, she needed to renounce. Is that opportunistic. No it is not. She was just complying with the requirement. She was following the law. It would be evil if she took an oath in the Philippine government for certain position knowing fully well that she didn’t renounce her American citizenship. The fact that she did shows that she was conscious of this requirement and followed this requirement.
If Philippine law considers it wrong to reacquire Philippine citizenship, why allow it in the first place? A law allows something that the State has deemed not something that is wrong, immoral, etc. – – -that’s why it makes it a law. So for her to renounce her American citizenship and become a Filipino citizen is not opportunism – – she simply had to comply with the law.
I think that’s the thing here – – -many people are coloring her action and imputing motives. When the fact is – – -is was required – – plain and simple.
In other words if not for the job opportunities, she would’ve have stayed a US citizen forever. I know some people who live in the US who stayed green card holders forever because they didn’t want to renounce their being Filipinos. If she wants to be president of the Philippines even if it is allowed by our laws she should have some delicadeza because at one point in her life she swore allegiance to the U.S. and even promised to defend the U.S. against any other countries and guess what? That includes the Philippines. How’s that for a president?
Escudero is the new Rasputin…
People tend to vote with their hearts, less with their minds. If you look at all the candidates for president, Mar Roxas is the best educated and the most experienced – congressman, senator, and cabinet posts in trade, transport and communications, and the interior and local governments – and his reputation for honesty and fairness is unassailabe. And yet…..
I suspect Grace will spin the issue in a manner that many Filipinos can relate to: “I became an American citizen because I married a Fil-Am who was working in America but I have always been a Filipino at heart.”
She married an American citizen, having done that, does it follow that she had to take the Oath of Allegiance to the US of A and be a US citizen herself? If not, why did she?
If it is optional and she can stay there in the US for as long as she wants to even without taking that oath, why did she?
If her husband, an American citizen having married a foreigner (a Filipino), would he be charged for violating an existing law of the USA? If he wouldn’t, why did she?
A different situation is of an OFW or a tourist who wanted to work in the US and had to marry a US citizen in order for her to have gainful employment there. It is a different matter, he/she had to do it for economic reasons. Grace has wealthy parents, she went with a student visa; upon graduation was offered a teaching job which she accepted, end of story. She can stay there as long as he is lawfully employed, from student visa, she had a working visa. Then she married a US citizen, why did she had to take that oath of allegiance? She could always be an Filipino wife of that US citizen, a Filipino citizen lawfully employed, why did she?
She did not have take that oath of allegiance, she was an adult, no one forced her.
She did take the oath of allegiance so she can avail of all the benefits of being a US citizen, she did it without anybody or circumstance forcing her – for her benefit, later renounced it when opportunity to be a government official was offered.
An opportunity knocked, she grabbed it.
Now she is saying she was and will always be a Filipino at heart. It would be alright, even great – if she is not seeking the top post of the land, but she is. Words are easy to say, but her actions belied her words. Pardon me if I don’t trust a candidate with a flip flopping allegiance.
Her allegiance is strictly for herself.
Joe said it best, her deeds had betrayed her and in so doing, betrayed us.
indeed, actions reveal more than spoken words. if one acts like a trapoe, walks like a trapoe, and thinks like a trapoe even thou one talks a la santo, one is no doubt still a trapoe.
Mary,
For most immigrants here the decision to go for citizenship vs. stay with legal resident status is economic. Legal residency has to get renewed every so often and every time the renewal fee goes up. So might as well pay the one time citizenship fee, saves money.
Another thing, I don’t know when Poe opted for US citizenship, but post-9/11, people who were long time legal residents here, just opted for citizenship to escape the hassle in int’l airports.
So the decision was more likely for practical purposes than high-falutin ideals of patriotism and allegiance.
Remember that Tsin Tong Wah story, at the end of the day, they were still Chinese syllables just moved around. LOL!
Noted with thanks, Lance Cpl_X
Economic reasons are the usual reasons cited by most immigrants, OFW or not. When you already have a working visa or if one is aleady a wife of a US citizen, would you still be subject to the hassle in int’l airports?
Economic reasons I understand and empathize with, convenience? not so, if you are still decided on being a Filipino and can still reside and work in the US and not fear the immigration people, why renounce your citizenship? It muddled her status, from a foundling to a Filipino citizen (a gift from parents who adopted her, renounced for convenience and reacquired again so she can be a cabinet member, then senator, and now presidential candidate.)
This seeming nitpicking on her citizenship status and residential requirements is for the purpose of compliance with what the constitution requires for those seeking the highest and second highest post of the country. If in this simple compliance cannot be done by Poe, how much more in other more complex and complicated matters that will crop up during her presidency if ever she wins? The constitution is not just a document, it is the framework on which all our laws should be based, not something to be trifled with.
In any case it’s not the only thing I am considering about her, it’s mostly her actions/inaction, her pronouncements that indicate she is still green, has not enough deep comprehension on important and complex matters presented to her for consideration, her lack of discernment on people around her and advising her. Hers is still about protecting her peers in the Senate and compadres and friends, her silence is deafening even if strong evidences are being exposed against them… she only decided to speak against Binay after she was already being attacked by his spokesmen when her ratings have overtaken him.
Tsin Tong Wah story, hahaha, yes. He greeted party mates with ” hi, I’m Washington, welcome”…. that’s a hoot, surely….
Mary,
Don’t the majority of politicians there, have visas, or residency status, or have immediate family who have dual citizenship. I forgot where I read this. But a big percentage of your politicians have on-going vested interests here in the US (or Canada, our 51st state).
So maybe in the name of transparency vis-a-vis allegiance, economic or otherwise, every politician should divulge interests in the US. So when they point their fingers, saying ‘you are an American’, there’s 3 fingers (or 4 if you’re really limber) pointing back that you have stores or several homes, or a huge bank account in the US.
As for the fees involved in residency renewals, $100 (I’m too lazy to look up the actual amount) every 3 (?) or so years, vs. a one time fee of $200 (?) for citizenship. Any accountant would choose the most cost effective option, and opt for the one time fee.
There’s two lines when you arrive from out of country back to the US, US citizens and all others (I’m not really sure if permanent residents fall under citizens), the hassle I think is more a perceived one than real post-9/11. But for US citizens, it’s usually a short “Welcome back!”
“a gift from parents who adopted her, renounced for convenience and reacquired again so she can be a cabinet member, then senator, and now presidential candidate”
1. gift, I thought citizenship is by also birth over there.
2. convenience, I’m simply arguing here that it’s an all too practical convenience.
3. reacquired, did she renounce her US citizenship? (cuz Maria Clara above is saying otherwise)
As for her family, keeping their US citizenship, same as all those other politicians who have lifesavers and/or parachutes readied to bail out if (or when) the Philippines goes down– how’s that for allegiance.
If other politicians can play the ‘let’s hedge our bets’ game and are ready to jump ship to the US (or Canada), Poe’s in perfect company, no? So the field’s pretty even when it comes to outside allegiance, the difference is not in type but degree.
1. gift, I thought citizenship is by also birth over there. –
she was foundling before, stateless according to “legal luminaries”.
By legally adopting her, she was able to follow the citizenship of her adopted parents.
3. reacquired, did she renounce her US citizenship? (cuz Maria Clara above is saying otherwise)
Yep, she renounced her US citizenship so she can take oath as Movie Review head, as appointee by PNOY.
She cannot be a Senate candidate if she is not a natural born Filipino citizen and has resided in the Philippines for at least 2 years.
To be qualified as presidential and VP-presidential candidate, she has to be NBFC and has 10 year residency period.
So all orphans over there are not Filipino citizens?
haha…orphans follow their dead parent’s citizenship
foundlings, since they were found while infant, whose parents can’t be traced, will be given the citizenship of the couples who will adopt the foundling.
unless we become signatory or ratify a UN something something that gives the foundlings citizenship on the country where they are found. (hey Lance, you got me confused there, hahaha…
We follow this here – Jus sanguinis (Latin: right of blood) is a principle of nationality law by which citizenship is not determined by place of birth but by having one or both parents who are citizens of the state.
I visited an orphanage, populated by mostly products of incest, hence given up, but there were also quite a lot of abandoned, just left, children. So you’re saying if they don’t get adopted, and they reach adult age, they are w/out citizenship? It doesn’t seem right, Mary.
yep, I share your feelings. unless they are adopted, they are stateless, I think, unless we have already signed or ratified that UN resolution on foundlings lately, that is after Poe was already adopted.
That’s why when applying for passports, they are given a certificate that they are foundlings, not sure the exact term for that certificate. I maybe wrong, but I think Poe used that initially before she was legally adopted by the Poes.
Then she should tell her husband to quit being American, bec she (Poe) sacrificed and gave up her citizenship for her husband, now it’s Neil’s (?) turn to sacrifice and give up his American citizenship.
Again, you seem to be making judgments on what people did and impute motive.
If we follow your argument – -then no Filipino needs to take an oath of allegiance to the US or Canada or Australia or NZ, etc. and just rely on his or her permanent residency visa.
Because honestly, none of your compatriots who live abroad need to acquire citizenship in order to live and work abroad. All we need is either a work permit or a permanent residency visa.
So when you start questioning her and saying “Why did she?” – – – then you should start questioning ALL FILIPINOS WHO ACQUIRE CITIZENSHIP of ANOTHER COUNTRY – – including me.
Because honestly, I could live and work in Canada with my permanent residency visa which I had to only renew every 5 years. But still, I chose to acquire Canadian citizenship.
Why did I do it?
Well – – to follow your arguments – – – -why did I do it? And in your mind – – I probably did it for lack of love of country because honestly, I don’t have to acquire Philippine citizenship.
So this thing you say – – that the situation is different from an OFW or a tourist – – -truth is – -for them to work in these countries – -NONE OF THEM HAVE TO GAIN CITIZENSHIP TOO. All they need is just a work permit or a permanent residency visa.
If you will say to me now that I am less of a Filipino – – – -and that you won’t believe me when I say to you – -I love the Philippines and I was always a filipino by heart – – – – – – -I say to you – – – -sad – – because now you had made me less of a filipino simply by living abroad and acquiring citizenship.
If you think I left the Philippines because of poverty – – no i didn’t. I am highly educated in the Philippines and the States – – and my fortune of studying in the US allowed me to easily get a Canadian permanent residency visa. So yes – -I chose to live in the US and eventually Canada. And I took an oath simply because I was in Canada and after living here for several years, it was “natural” for me to go the route of taking an oath as a Canadian.
But even if I took my oath as a canadian and love things canadian like hockey, poutine, etc. – – -I always remained filipino too by heart. I read Inquirer, I talk Filipino to my friends, I call home, I send balikbayan boxes, etc.
So for you to now say that Grace Poe is not a real filipino for taking her oath of US citizenship when she didn’t have to – – -I say ALL FILIPINOS DON’T HAVE TO TAKE A CITIZENSHIP OATH TO WORK ABROAD BECAUSE ALL THAT’S NEEDED IS A WORK VISA OR PERMANENT RESIDENCY VISA (in the US it is called a Green card).
So your argument that Grace Poe is in a unique situation is baloney and has no basis at all.
If that bar is higher, then the constitution should say so.
But all the citizenship requires are:
1. One must be natural born
2. One must be a citizen
3. One must reside for 10 years prior to one’s oath of office
4. One must be 40 by the time one assumes office.
So when you say the bar should be higher, you are imposing a requirement that not even the constitution imposes.
If the constitution really wanted to – – the constitution should have said:
“No one can run for president if he/or she at any point in time lost Philippine citizenship”
But there’s nothing on that. The constitution never says that.
What it requires is one is a citizen and one was natural born.
Grace Poe is both.
The thing that needs to be proven is she resided at least 10 years prior to assuming office.
But the issue of citizenship is clear. There is no higher bar. The bar that should be applied is the one the constitution imposes. And the constitution never said ban those who at one point became a citizen of another country.
(Daisy) A question of allegiance: Has Grace Poe’s evolving – almost chameleon-like – citizenship changes a product of loyalty or expediency? Why has she been so “fluid” and “flexible”? There are a great number of Filipinos who have become naturalized American citizens after residing in the United States for a long time (me included), just as there are many Americans in the Philippines who may well have become Filipino citizens. But, as far as I know currently, none of us are presidential wannabes. The citizenship bar understandably is – and must be – higher for people aspiring to become President of the Philippines! Mr. Joe America, thanks for putting into words some concepts and nuances that are hard for most people (me included) to articulate. Great critical analysis!
“The citizenship bar understandably is – and must be – higher for people aspiring to become President of the Philippines!” Correct – but the citizenship aspect is simply laws trying to put into fixed rules something that is hard to measure – LOYALTY. The 1987 Philippine constitution understood this better than the previous ones. Somewhere there it says something like “dual ALLEGIANCE is inimical to national interest and shall be dealt with by law”. Allegiance is simply the loyalty that you have stated.
As for loyalty, the DFA used to ask for women diplomats – don’t know about the men – who married foreigners to tender their courtesy resignations. It was then a matter for the Commission on Appointments to decide whether they were to be reinstated into service.
While loyalty is indeed subjective and difficult to measure and quantify, entities such as foreign service and intelligence agencies have a way of vetting their “recruits.” There are certain expectations vis-à-vis allegiance for such people as diplomats and spies (I think that’s the reason behind security clearances) and certainly the bar should even be higher for those who aspire to become the “supreme leader” of a nation. A President, after all, does not only manage a country’s affairs and lead. He or she is also a symbol representing the entire nation and its people.
Thank you, Dingding. I agree it is a tough one, and my views here might not be the views of many, or even most, but the issue is for sure going to be put on the table.
It’s definitely a relevant issue! I’ve read pros and cons on social media, and at least based on posted comments, I see that more and more people are taking the allegiance and expediency factors into consideration. Predictably, Mar Roxas supporters and those who look at merit and qualifications have the same view as you (and I) do, but those who dislike PNOY and his pick, for whatever reason, probaby see Poe as a good-enough, novel, or lesser-evil alternative (the worse evil being Binay), regardless of the issues. Do the Filipino people want good governance and platform-based initiatives or are they going to make their choice based on personality and nostalgia for a famous movie star, now dead and believed to have been cheated out of the Presidency? (And that touching foundling story?) I think that eventually, the fight will come down to whose campaign is more effective in terms of selling ideas (and emotions!) And for the sake of the country, I hope the majority of the voters will choose merit and qualifications over personality and entertainment!
Me, too.
I totally agree with you
If that bar is higher, then the constitution should say so.
But all the citizenship requires are:
1. One must be natural born
2. One must be a citizen
3. One must reside for 10 years prior to one’s oath of office
4. One must be 40 by the time one assumes office.
So when you say the bar should be higher, you are imposing a requirement that not even the constitution imposes.
If the constitution really wanted to – – the constitution should have said:
“No one can run for president if he/or she at any point in time lost Philippine citizenship”
But there’s nothing on that. The constitution never says that.
What it requires is one is a citizen and one was natural born.
Grace Poe is both.
The thing that needs to be proven is she resided at least 10 years prior to assuming office.
But the issue of citizenship is clear. There is no higher bar. The bar that should be applied is the one the constitution imposes. And the constitution never said ban those who at one point became a citizen of another country.
Reply
Dingding Laag says:
September 14, 2015 at 4:50 pm
(Daisy) A question of allegiance: Has Grace Poe’s evolving – almost
The criticisms leveled against Grace Poe and her candidacy for president stem primarily from the accusation that her personality and character cannot be trusted, with her allegiance to the Philippines being questionable because she chose to join her husband and family who then were natural born US citizens and the only way to do so was to become a naturalized American citizen at the age of 41which meant she had no choice but to give up her Philippine citizenship, an unwanted cosequence which the Philippines redressed by enacting the dual citizenship law belatedly two years later in 2003. I took advantage of this law and many more Filipino green cardholders did as their children and grandchildren found life, liberty and happiness not in their homeland but elsewhere together with their families. Many bloggers including those who visit and comment on this and other blogsites have also found lives and happiness not in the land of their birth and I find the insinuation absurd that their character and allegiance is now questioned and tainted to such an extent that some are declaring them unfit if not unworthy to be elected president even if by the laws of the land they are entitled the opportunity to do so. It is no less absurd to question JoeAm’s personality,character, and allegiance to the US of which last I heard he still is a citizen of because he too found his love, life, happiness and his talent for blogging not in his homeland where similar and pethaps greater opportunities abound. And in the end he followed his heart, not that he is allowed under our laws to run for public office because of his citizenship but he has shown enough patriotism through his blogs that he could be trusted to.
It is also suggested in the article that having a husband and children who are US citizens would be a significant hurdle for Poe if she was to run for president. First of all, whether they or are not is just mere speculation and not confirmed fact. What is known is the spouse was a US citizen which is how GP got her citizenship. It is not known if he was and still is a natural born citizen or if he renounced either of his citizenships. It is likely that all of the children are natural born Filipino citizens and except for the eldest, if he was born in the US, the other kids who were born in the Philippines will have the option to become US citizens once they become eighteen. So all this speculation is unwarranted at this point and ignores the fact that the entire family is also Filipino regardless of whether they are American or not. Not that it matters legally anyway, since there is no bar in the constitution as to the nationality of the members of the president’s family.
Finally, I disagree with the premise that anti-Amerixan sentiment is so strong and so prevalent among the majority of Filipino voters that it would be a negative for Americam members of the First Family to be residing in Malacanang. In fact, I would assume given the geo-political situation and potential for confrontation between the Philippines and China, the US would be percieved more as a potential ally and counterweight to the looming threat of Chinese hegemony over their self-declared inland sea.
A great counter to the presentation in the blog. I find the matter wonderfully intricate, as it really does shed a lot of light on the way America is viewed in the Philippines. It could be that politicians have gamed the relationship in the past because it played well, and, given that China is right over there on Philippine rocks in Philippine seas, the mood may be different than in 1991. Plus, if young people are forgetting President Marcos, then the Philippine American War, and destruction of Manila in WWII, and US support for Marcos may be non-issues to 98% of the population. It is just among the nationalists, or intellectual elite, that the issue is disturbing.
Thanks for the point of view.
Or among the fans of opposed political candidates.
Right now, people–including Poe/Escudera, and their opponents–are focused on the election. So the matter of birth/citizenship is being played out by both the Poe camp and opponents with winning as the objective. As Joe says above, it may in fact be a non-issue for most Filipinos. But looking ahead to a possible Poe presidency, I’d say that the citizenship issue will actually weigh more heavily then, weaken us internationally, and be used relentlessly to manipulate/destabilize her administration.
If even an awkward smile by Aquino or a happy anniversary wish by Roxas can be used for political attack to devastating effect, just imagine the possibilities for calls for impeachment for treason because of citizenship conflicts. Imagine how this will impinge on and limit the country’s foreign policy options, at a time when China is lurching about, thumping its chest while dealing with internal pressures that it will partly deal with by increased forays into territories outside its borders.The Philippines will be hamstrung in working with the U.S. and other Asian countries to maintain peace and stability in the region–because questions regarding Poe’s honesty and nationalism will be raked over again and again. By Filipinos. Because there are people here who do that for a living, or just because they can. Like it, or not like it, an alliance with the U.S. and allies in Asia Pacific is crucial to maintaining a balance of power in the region. Rent-seeking trapos left without a slice of the pie will join hands with leftist groups, or pseudo-leftist groups (who have been consistently, deafeningly silent on the nine-dash line and related issues) to question Ms. Poe’s credibility much more than they’re doing now. There’ll be a frenzy to revive the old nationalism card, for reasons which will have nothing to do with actual nationalism. In all this, real devotion to country will count for nothing, against the desire among these motley groups and individuals for power, dominance by a fossilized ideology, and possibilities for currying favor China.
Binay has already shown eagerness to ingratiate himself with the mainland (like that was a surprise), and got public flak for it. Poe has done so as well, slighting the U.S. ambassador gracelessly, early in the game. Escudero presumably would like to make nice with China. That little distancing gambit vis-à-vis the ambassador: it may have fallen flat, locally, but drew attention from across the water, no doubt. Escudero’s supposed to be good at a certain type of deal-making, so I wonder how it’s going with the politicians, local leftists, and the China card.
On matters of territorial sovereignty and nationalism, Aquino has international credibility. With one of the most deficient military forces in Asia, under the furious eye of Beijing, his administration has steadily and systematically sought to maintain and protect the Philippines’ territorial integrity, through legal measures, without bombast, in the international courts. This has gained respect for the Philippines, and may well establish a template for small or weak nations asserting their rights in the face of well-funded and militarily powerful countries,. You could say it’s in his DNA (his mother’s administration led to the closure of the U.S. bases, after all). But it would be difficult to maintain this kind of momentum under a president whose semi-citizenship, or almost-citizenship, or national allegiance has been a problem since her candidacy was just a rumor. Just wait until she’s sitting behind that desk in Malacanang.
“You could say it’s in his DNA (his mother’s administration led to the closure of the U.S. bases, after all). ”
What I know about this is that Cory has worked hard for the renewal of the US bases’ stay here. The Senate vote has prevailed notwithstanding her appeal and her leading a pro US rally. She along with the majority of the Filipinos would have preferred the US bases to stay here, much like in Japan who ironically are ultra-nationalist.
That is sometimes the problem in a democracy, with an independent Legislative and Judiciary branch. The US has the same kind of problem over there, with the Iranian nuclear deal and the ratification of the UNCLOS.
Except for my comment above, I agree with you.
Powerful piece, bringing some new concerns to the table.
What I find disturbing is your note that Binay’s willingness to cozy up to China raised no significant objection. This, I think, is the point that several people have made here, the broad electorate is not into these issues as much as an educated, political few. That’s scary, frankly.
Your last paragraph is so very, very, very profound. I wish it could find its way onto the front page of the Inquirer.
“Many bloggers including those who visit and comment on this and other blogsites have also found lives and happiness not in the land of their birth and I find the insinuation absurd that their character and allegiance is now questioned and tainted to such an extent that some are declaring them unfit if not unworthy to be elected president even if by the laws of the land they are entitled the opportunity to do so.”
Those who have lived abroad for too long no longer can relate to the life in the Philippines like someone who has been there all his life and has only left for short periods. Somebody who is to lead a community of people must be able to relate to their life and attitudes. After a while the distance to the way of life of the original community grows and one adjusts more to the way of life in the new community – this is the reason for the 10-year residency.
As for the natural-born requirement, the reason for this is that the candidate must be properly rooted in the community, must have true and full identification with it, since leadership entails service and sacrifice. However due to ius sanguinis one can be natural-born but have spent the formative years of ones youth totally abroad and therefore not be truly rooted in the community. So this rule somehow defeats its own purpose.
“the entire family is also Filipino regardless of whether they are American or not.” This reminds me of the Russian concepts of citizenship and nationality dating back to Tsarist times. Back then you had Russian citizenship, later Soviet, but your nationality (meaning ethnic group) could be Russian, German, Jewish, Armenian or a lot of other choices. This was officially part of your papers, the so-called 5th item in your identity card or passport.
For an American, only citizenship counts because this is the way they have learned to think about it – this is the reason for Joe’s interpretation, even if recent developments in the USA have made German-American, Italian-American and other hyphenated identities count a little bit more. Now the question is – what defines a Filipino? Fernando Poe was no doubt a Filipino, even if by blood he probably was more white than Joe’s son is. Good questions…
Irineo, what do you think makes you,I and others who have lived so happily and so long away from the land of our births relate and still care so much about the Philippines? I submit that attachment and the strength of it explains why we identify as Filipinos even as the everyday world one lives in is completely alien from that we experienced in our youth. I wouldike to ask those who accuse Poe and others who sought to better their lives and earn for themselves and their families a decent and honest livelihood elsewhere when the prospects are dim in their land of birth, is it really necessary to tar them as opportunists, acting only for their selfish interests, and unworthy of being entrusted with a job asking to do whats best for the country? A capitalist society and a free market economy which the Philippines, the US and much of the globe now espouses is based on the concept that things work for the best wheb each member of society acts in his or her own interest, without breaking its rules or laws.This includes finding the best market for ones labor and sevices wherever it may be, which is what Poe and many of us did regardless of where one comes from and where one ends up in. Suffice it to say once finding a decent home, good paying jobs, and living in relative comfort with ones family in the US, it is an extremely difficult decision to uproot everything and to start new careers and face an uncertain future in order to return to her roots and an identity she had seemingly never lost, being Filipina.
Let us then wait for the courts to decide on whether Poe satisfies the requirements for qualification to be President as embodied in the Constitution.
I am not a lawyer, I just offer my layman’s opinion, but I will defer to the court’s decision.
Even if she qualifies, I will still not vote for her for reasons I have already stated here and in other blog articles of Joe’s site as well as in raissa’s.
What if, she comes out of those hurdles, she is initially pronounced qualified (never know how they can spin around justice here and Constitution rulings’ interpretations), gets elected with Escudero? Then by protests filed, she gets disqualified and Escudero by default becomes the President? “I’m wary.”
If she gets disqualified, the second leading presidential candidate becomes the president not Escudero.
of course keso will not make the move until the trapoe and keso had taken their oath of office for keso is not that less gifted of attention to details. at least the trapoe has to be a president for a minute before the vice president can assume the coveted post per law of pinas succession. but that is another debate for legal eagles.
She’s a citizen of the Republic of Escudero. That’s all there is to it, pancit.
Not just a citizen, but his spokesperson. There were one or two stories floated wherein it was made to appear that she was distancing herself from Chiz the Wiz, who’s been keeping a comparatively low profile, but I’d just as soon believe the fake reports of Miss Piggy and Kermit parting ways.
Puppets mate for life; there aren’t too many other options for them, let’s just say. 🙂
Joe America this is for you…” namamangka siya sa dalawang ilog “
That’s not an uncommon view, actually. Most people call me either a hypocrite or, if they are more polite, inconsistent. Generally that is for one of three reasons, all underpinned by the penchant for Filipinos to adopt a stand and then defend it through hell and high water. In the case of Poe, time and circumstance changed my view, and her actual deeds, which fell short of the ideals I held early on. Another is that my job is to be provocative and stir up discussion, and sometimes I will take a position when I really am not sure what is the best position to take. But taking a position gives something for others to speak either to or against. It makes the blog discussion work. Third, I listen to what others say, and consider any information they present, and if their case is strong, I’ll change my view. My esteem is not hooked to the first position taken.
Joeam, I think Chocolate was referring to Grace as in “…” namamangka siya sa dalawang ilog “ instead of “namamangka ka sa dalawang ilog.” Surely another great article.
Ah, well, all that thinking for naught . . . 🙂 Glad you liked the article, Enrico.
I’m sorry if you hurt yourself looking for a translator or a pinoy dictionary !
How to strike a balance between my long, winded and circuitous style and one liner comments to attain KISS, keep it simple sir….
or sistah….
hey sistah, your so called long and winded comments is better than my non sequiturs at any given day.
and thanks too, karl..didn’t see this comment of yours until now
I enjoy your lengthy parsing of issues and arguments. Many issues are intricate, with multiple facets, and you are expert at lining them up and explaining things clearly. So kindly don’t cut the quality in favor of short.
Thanks for reassuring me again, Joe. really appreciate this.
Thanks Enrico for standing up for me.
Which led me to think, why was he being defensive all of a sudden? Aah, nuances . . .intrigues . . . .
Even if the courts decide that she is qualified re the residency and citizenship requirements, even if they rule that her taking an oath of allegiance to a foreign country does not disqualify her to run for the highest post of the country, my trust in her which made me vote for her as senator will not come back. Her actions and pronouncements these last few months, for me has revealed her true character, her lack of discernment and right intuition.
Your readout is the same as mine, a matter of her deeds more than “patriotism”.
With permission from the Bard :’ Let us not to the marriage of true minds, admit impediment’ , , , with some liberty taken, of course ☺ Sorry, but I am a bit rusty on my style manual. Grad school was some time ago.
🙂
“Her actions and pronouncements these last few months, for me has revealed her true character, her lack of discernment and right intuition.”
Agreed, but not up to “right intuition”. I’d say “a propensity to act on a basal instinct to be a figure of mass adoration” instead.
Even when provided with unassailable empirical evidence on a certain matter–say, for example, that Mount Apo is the highest mountain in the country at 2,954 meters, beating Mount Pulag by 32 meters–it is not impossible for me to think that she may give Pulag the prize… if this was the popular opinion.
I’ve asked myself how she would have handled the Mamasapano operation. A referendum? Pwede, no?
Yeah. I wonder. And I wonder what she will do when she knows all the secrets between the Phils and US. Good points.
Poe or Foe? Pun intended of course. With her posturing now, she has become one.
It is amazing to me that Binay and Poe/Escudero sound so much alike, looking for points to criticize that have popular appeal, then schmoozing up to people when they visit here and there. Today I had to laugh because Binay attacked Escudero. Guy doesn’t have many friends left.
Faux
*****
1. Of the five Constitutional qualifications for the presidency, I would say 3 are arbitrary and 2 are essential. The three arbitrary ones are being: (a) a natural-born citizen; (b) at least forty years of age; and (c) a resident of the Philippines for at least ten years preceding an election. The two essential ones are: (d) being a registered voter and (e) having the ability to read and write.
2. Accordingly:
2.1. First Station. Parentage is immaterial.
2.2. Second and a Third Station: Natural-born citizenship is immaterial. It is only relevant because of the constitutional requirement.
2.3. Second and a Half Station. Age is immaterial. It is only relevant because of the constitutional requirement.
2.4. Second and Two-Thirds Station. Residency is immaterial. It is only relevant because of the constitutional requirement.
2.5. Third Station: Allegiance – defined as the “loyalty or commitment to a superior or to a group or cause.”– is material but it is not an explicit constitutional requirement.
2.5.1. Implicitly, allegiance is imputed in the natural-born citizenship and the residency requirements.
2.5.2. But I have said that these two requirements are immaterial. Of course, Grace will have to overcome these hurdles.
2.5.3. My first question is: How does one explicitly detect and measure loyalty to country?
2.5.4. The answer is: by Word and Deed.
3. Grace has been disloyal to the country in the following ways:
3.1. By renouncing her citizenship
3.2. By pledging allegiance to a foreign country, the US
3.3. A third possibility: by fudging details on relevant Philippine documents
4. On the other hand, Grace has been loyal to the Philippines in the following ways:
4.1 By returning to live in the country
4.2. By forswearing her sworn allegiance to the US
4.3. By renewing her oath of allegiance to the country
4.4. By working as a public servant
4.5. By seeking and winning office
5. My second question is: Is Grace’s loyalty divided?
5.1. Potentially, yes, because her husband is an American citizen (there has been no news to the contrary). His loyalty is to his wife, a Filipino, and to his country, the US. Should a conflict arise, will he put his loyalty to his wife ahead of his loyalty to his country? In the same manner, should a conflict arise, will Grace always put her loyalty to the country ahead of her loyalty to her husband?
5.2. Where there is a conflict between national and personal interests, elected officials are mandated to disclose and divest their personal interests. What is the mandated action, if any, in this case? (The post does not indicate any.)
6. My third and final question is: Is Grace ready to be president?
6.1. I previously posited in a previous post that the two main criteria for leadership are character and judgment.
6.2. I can forget the arbitrary constitutional requirements. I will concede that Grace’s loyalty is not in question, although there are potential issues about this as outlined in item 5.1. It should be a cause for concern. However, the potency of this issue may not cause an uproar given that the majority of Filipinos see the US as the country’s closest ally and their first preferred home away from home.
6.3. It is on this last question that, for me, Grace is wanting. Not on character but on judgment.
6.4. To me she does not have the necessary comprehension of issues as enumerated in the post. And therefore her judgment will always be suspect.
6.5. Additionally, it is said that the date of her announcing her run is based on Feng Shui. This is at worst superstition, and at best pseudoscience. (Noted that Mar’s anointment was announced on an auspicious date as well, but not based on Feng Shui?)
6.6. She may have character, she may be steely-eyed, she may be magnanimous (although I doubt it), but if she is not clear-eyed then that places the country at risk.
6.7. No doubt she is a better choice than Binay. Between her and Mar, I am at a loss because I question Mar’s judgment too, although on INC he was clearer eyed.
*****
OT, So you have another PM ???
Yeah! Like, man, that came out of the blue. Out with Abbot, in with Goldman Sachs.
*******
And aren’t I glad? Well, yes, but not so much. I like Turnbull’s republican instincts. Abbott was an absolute disaster, but Turnbull butchered the NBN scheme at Abbott’s bidding. (NBN is the upgrade of the Internet network to optic fiber.) I await to see whether Turnbull will reverse NBN policy; otherwise he is just a — gadzooks! — trapo.
*****
A lot of money being made; all those vultures plying fiber optic connections that don’t work, but back to Ms. Llamanzares we go. She’s already fiber opted for all we know.
Superb reasoning. Two questions:
1) How do you think the “Americans in the Palace” will resonate with voters? A number of commenters have said that it is not a serious issue, and that Senator Poe can lay concerns to rest. The one thing that leads me to start to agree is that I can see the vehemence of objection comes mainly from Roxas supporters. I suspect Binay will hammer at the matter though. Leni Robredo spoke to it yesterday. I honestly can’t read it well at all. It is an emotional issue, you have spoken to reason, the voting base is emotional.
2) Can you itemize two or three instances of poor judgment by Roxas? Not the details, which we can research ourselves, but the incidents.
Thanks.
*******
1. Re item 1: I have answered this question in item 5.1: “However, the potency of this issue may not cause an uproar given that the majority of Filipinos see the US as the country’s closest ally and their first preferred home away from home.” The issue will not resonate at all.
1.1. Having said that, it is a serious issue. Refer to my 5.2. The issue should definitely resonate.
1.2. There are several ways for the issue to be resolved.
1.2.1. One, Grace should give up her ambition to become president if her husband intends to remain a foreign citizen. Seriously.
1.2.2. Two, Grace’s husband should renounce his American citizenship and become (regain?) a Filipino citizen. This should be done ASAP, before the elections. This will demonstrate commitment to the country and remove the conflict of interest. The children are not involved in this issue; it is up to them to choose which country they belong to.
1.2.3. Three, divorce. Not really an option.
2. Re item 2: Poor judgment includes poor performance.
2.1. The photo opportunities. These are gimmickry. On the positive side, the motorcycle spill.
2.2. NAIA. The troubles, the troubles.
2.3. MRT/LRT. The late renewal of maintenance licensing, the deplorable maintenance, the lack of foresight in ordering new cars. Am aware MRT is a private concern, and there have been legal obstacles.
2.4. The continuing proliferation of jueteng.
(2.5. MRP will include marriage to Korina, but I disagree. She would make a fine First Lady.)
*****
Okay, thanks for pointing out the shortcomings in my speed reading techniques. 🙂 That puts you in the camp of the other brains hereabouts that it is, from the standpoint of the broad base of voters, pretty much a non-issue.
On Roxas, I suppose I’ll have to dig deeper to find out if this was genuinely his lack of judgment, or if there were other points to consider, like what various contracts stipulate. It is all a little fuzzy to me, and I know that Abaya’s poor results WILL get laid at Roxas’ feet during the election if he does not have a clear response that people will trust.
2.1 Agree, in a Yogi Berra kind of way. 2.4, yes, accept that. Add to it 2.6 his “happy anniversary” wish to Zamboanga a few days ago. On the positive side, put improved storm response, effective implementation of DOTC’s part of Yolanda recovery, generally up-graded police order and reputation coming from the Pope’s visit and INC work.
Certainly in terms of experience, he has it in spades, particularly crisis engagement. Grace Poe has none.
I appreciate the elaboration.
Also, I think LGU’s are increasingly treated as a part of the government’s management heirarchy, rather than being left alone as royal fiefdoms. Roxas followed the Robredo formula on this.
To become a senator is beyond the reach of many of us, it is a destiny, and if I were Grace I’d be thankful and be content I reached the pinnacle of success without much effort and ado. I’m naturalized American too and I’m willing to be a governor or congressman or even mayor in exchange of my citizenship, but I know that’s like hitting the lottery jackpot twice.
Right. No patriotism involved at all. Just pragmatics. Hey, basketball players cite oaths of allegiance to get to play for the Philippines, so everyone has loyalties to what’s in their interest. Thanks for making the point.
I just put my fingers on Filipino psyche. They wanted to speak English like Americans, dress like Americans, eat like Americans, buy nothing but Made-in-the-U.S.A., wanted to look like Americans be as white as Americans. Their textbooks are American authored. They wanted to come to my country to suck it dry of social security without life-altering contribution. Well, there is life-altering contribution but I have to Google it not top-of-my-head who-is-who life-altering contributor.
It is an honor to study in the U.S. The U.S. is a mecca of Filipino pilgrims to show off they made it. The fanatically religious corrupt Roman Catholic Filipinos would rather go to Mecca in the U.S. than go to the land-of-birth of Jesus Christ hands-down.
Those Filipinos who faked-and-forged immigration documents apply for citizenship, took an oath of allegiance to my country, got their citizenship papers THEN take a bus ride to Philippine Consulate to apply for dual citizenship. TRAITORS !!!! TOTALLY TRAITORS !!!! They traitored their Country-of-Birth and turned around traitored Americans by getting Philippine Passports to maintain their Filipinoness Citizenship.
TRAITORS !!! I do not care if it is in the Philippine Constitution that they are allowed to do that …. I do not care if Americans allowed it. A person cannot ally to two countries only one country.
They do this for the American welfare benefits they will get. They do this because Americans protect their citizens despite being traitors. We, Americans protect them than Filipino Government protect their citizens. THAT IS WHY I AM UNTOUCHABLE. I go to any places in the world, if they touch a hair of my body Americans send an armada of F-16s and flotilla of Aircraft carrier to extricate me. The Philippine Government cannot do that. The Philippine Government is inutile.
Filipinos are only lucky if they are corrupt and get caught with their hands in the cookie jars and they graduated from University of the Philippines because they protect their own
Here is Grace Poe who has confused citizenship. She was born and raised in the Philippines. She went to the US because she couldn’t find a decent job in the Philippines. Met and married her present husband. Now, it has become an issue.
What about those citizenship-card carrying fake American Filipino citizens who were naturalized? What about those imported half-bred half-white American and German citizen beauty queens to represent 99% of browned skin Filipinos?
Grace Poe is a liar. She should come clean. Those who question Grace Poe’s eligibility and qualification should also come clean. Rid the Philippine schools of American-authored textbooks. Question the citizenship of imported beauty queens and basketball players.
What is the difference between the brains of those Filipinos who surrendered their citizenship and those beauty queens and basketball players from the rest of the Filipinos? They are still Filipinos in brain and in deeds.
Grace Poe should quit the race. Go back to teaching. I am sure plenty of handsome high school students would lure her to their beds. She should go back to the States. Watch CNN to enjoy the drama, incompetence and corruptions of 100% unadulterated Filipino Citizen politicians crooking Filipinos in the comfort of her home with her American husband.
Grace Poe will have the last laugh when the Filipinos found out that Malacanang Kitchen Staff resigned in mass when they found out Korina Sanchez is actually First Lady Korina Sanchez-Roxas the maid-beater.
“Grace Poe is a liar. She should come clean. Those who question Grace Poe’s eligibility and qualification should also come clean. Rid the Philippine schools of American-authored textbooks. Question the citizenship of imported beauty queens and basketball players.” You do see the ridiculous in our standards, that’s for sure.
For sure I will not vote for Grace Poe for one simple rule, “Conflict of Interest”. Her legal dilemma on her citizenship and residency status is far for me to comprehend and argue. Some companies prohibits hiring husband and wife working together because of this simple rule or one cannot work on another job because of this. If she gets elected as president and for whatever reason a conflict arises between the US and The Phil. Where then is her side of loyalty? Her family who are all US Citizen or the Filipino people?
That is a common concern, I think. Her statement to the American Ambassador was at the edge of rude. I think she was posturing that she is not about to bow to American interests, to show her independence. Well, that’s wrong, too. It isn’t about Grace Poe. We ought not adjust international policy for Grace Poe’s political reputation. It’s about Philippine security.
Robert P
You are making it appear that her husband is a high ranking political operative of the US who could influence US policy towards the Philippines. That is a bit of a stretch, bro. And to be practical and realistic about it, there will never be a conflict between the US and the Philippines. The conflict of interest issue will never play out.
JICA should not be allowed to make studies on how to remedy traffic gridlock. They should use UP graduates !!! Because it violates Philippine Patrimony.
Philippines should not allow my country to protect themselves because it violates Philippine Sanctity.
Grace Poe should read the Philippine Myths that are promoted by U.P. Graduates
DepEd approved textbooks that are full of factual feel-goot errors:
1. EDSA REVOLUTION …. there was no revoluton at EDSA !!! It was the squabble between Marcos and Honasan-Ramos-Enrile. The Filipinos massing there was in for entertainment wanting to witness who would be the winner. If it was a Revolution who were those Filipinos in favor of? Corrupt Marcos or Corrupt Honasan-Ramos0-Enrile ?
2. PHILIPPINE IS AGRICULTURAL COUNTRY … Philippines is not an agricultural country. Philippines smuggle rice, garlic onions, noodles because Philippines cannot produce them, therefore, Philippines is not AGRICULTURAL COUNTRY.
3. GENERAL EMILIO AGUINALDO WAS A HERO. Emilio aguinaldo was a traitor and murderer. He sold the Philippines and Filipinos to Spain and murdered Luna to make Spaniards happy. The textbook made by U.P. historian also insinuate that Emilio aguianldo sold the Philippines and Filipinos to buy arms for the rfilipino rebels to give credene to June 1w independence which was originally in July 4th
4. FILIPINOS ARE CROOKS AND THIEVES BECAUSE OF COLONIAL MENTALITY. Colonial Mentality is Goot !!!! all crooks in the Philippines are nog-nog browned skin punk’d nose not the tiosys and tisays ex-colonist mestizo class. Therefore Colonial mentality is goot. The Mestizo ex-colonist mestizo class are the most honest people in the Philippines they were never involved in corruption, crookery and thievery.. Therefore, colonial mentality is goot !
What I am saying, If it is brown-skin, kurakot. If it is Tisoys Tisays Mestizo Class IT IS HONEST. To this day since Ferdinand Magellan landed in the shores of Maynilad The Spanish conquistadores were never charged of corruption, bribery and thievery.
The Spaniards wanted to colonize the Filipnos to change their mindset. Instead the DepEd approved textbooks written by UP Doctorate in History professors accused the COLONIAL MENTALITY that made the Filipinos crook.
WHO IS CROOK NOW?
Maybe people are listening to you, Mariano, and THAT’s why they did not go with UP, but with Japanese pros. You ought not condemn them for achieving enlightenment.
@Joe America
x-
Photo caption reads:
“The Poe-llamanzares family, with Senator Poe’s mother, Susan Roces [Photo credit: philstar]”
-x
——-
It should read “Llamanzares,” tama?
Ahahaha, yes, can you lend me your glasses? Mine are obviously defective.
Hmmm, …
Now that I see two exactly the same posts dated 6:14 am,
I wonder if my glasses have suddenly become DOUBLE vision.
That is the fault of my cheap Chinese mouse, not your glasses. I’ve removed the duplicate.
OT, my chinese friend just bought a new SUV, a SKODA of all things ☺But, of course, she’s in southwestern China ‘ where the people are all good-looking . . . .blah . . blah and feast on powder-milk biscuits.
I, too have noticed your duplicate posts before, and was just ignoring it, it happened again in your response to Nani Banaticla re Bam Aquino and factoring in him in 2022. The unfinished comment was posted before you click the Post Comment button courtesy of your cheap Chinese mouse…haha!
Irineo’s Swiss keyboard and mouse must be considered, I think…joke!
Hahaha, yes, where can I buy a good Swiss mouse hereabouts . . . 🙂
There is a Swiss restaurant somewhere in Cebu.
Buy Swiss cheese and the mouse will come by itself.
Capable mouse. Hairy paws, probably . . .
My Manila/Luzon bias is shining through – wasn’t thinking it’s all Visayas to me… 🙂
But a capable mouse would be good to take care of whatever Chiz there is…
You keep on saying Cebu, Joe is from Biliran. You might know any Swiss restos there so Joe won’t have to spend for plane tickets.Peace, bro.
Loyalty is subjective hard to pin down. No question Poe is a natural born Filipino. When she reacquired Filipino citizenship she then pledged allegiance to the republic. So we have to measure her ability to be president against her leadership experience in government either exceutive or legislative or both. Six years as a senator is not enough. She has to pay her dues, toughen up and know the nuts and bolts of government. Erap for all his native intelligence and charisma was found to be totally inadequate for the job. Popularity and acting won’t cut it. Got to have substance. I’d say at least 10 years in government (both legislative and executive) better 15 years. Then she would been thoroughly tested. There’s just no shortcut. We’ve had too many failures lost too many years.
Good assessment. You go on skill and knowledge of National affairs. It is a little scary turning over a Fortune 500 corporation to a trainee down in Law.
My own personal takeaway from the blog and its commentary is that the question of Poe’s citizenship is really a non-issue whether one is referring to the legality of her candidacy or to outcomes at the ballot box. Should it be so? Were I to answer that question from my understanding and knowledge of election law or what other legal minds more clever and competent than mine in such matters, I would say yes. But the SET Tribunal is only a quasi legal court composed mostly of senators with political agendas and the Supreme Court where this issue will ultimately be decided has shown in its recent Enrile ruling that its decisions do not necessarily abide by what the constitution or blind justice prescribes. JoeAm’s view is probably best which is to let the courts decide instead twisting and bending that goes on at other blogs to demonstrate that their version of the facts and the law shows that an outcome that fits their own biases will prevail.
There will always be those who might have set their expectations of Poe’s conduct in the political arena exceedingly high and now have a genuine distrust of her character and motivations. I am not one of those and I have always believed that our most loved if not our most well regarded presidents came from the best, brightest, and most well-prepared candidates. To cite but a few, Cory Quirino, Ramon Magsaysay and of course, Benigno Aquino. I would throw in that D grade movie actor Ronald Reagan who did not come from an Ivy League background unlike Clinton, Bush, Obama, etc. but we are talking Philippine citizens and past presidents.
Its really all up to Mar because his candidacy lives or dies whether his campaign can raise his popularity with the masa, and as much superiority, condescencion and outright disdain one might have about the voting preferences of the masa, they are who most of our fellow citizens are and as plebeian, uninformed, and different their voting preferences are, the next president by necessity has to identify with their priorities, cares and concerns and not what a narrow slice of the voting population consider the best choice for the entire country.
It is also all up to Poe, she has to find new mentors, advisors, financial and political supporters other than the rogues gallery that supported her father’s presidential and her senatorial campaign. If she cannot find or develop the moral compass to understand and make this happen during her campaign, then it is hard to figure out how she can possibly continue the preferable parts of Aquino’s Daang Matuwid policies if her cabinet and advisors are picked by the same cast of shady characters. I would hate to think that the election becomes a choice between Binay or Binay Light.
Errata:
I am not one of those and I have always believed that our most loved if not our most well regarded presidents do NOT come from the best, brightest, and most well-prepared candidates. To cite but a few, Cory Quirino, Ramon Magsaysay and of course, Benigno Aquino. I would throw in that D grade movie actor Ronald Reagan who did not come from an Ivy League background unlike Clinton, Bush, Obama, etc. but we are talking Philippine citizens and past presidents.
Ha, yes. But Ronald Reagan may have been a D grade actor, he was an excellent President of the Screen Actor’s Guild, not the easiest job. And he was a pretty decent governor of California.
It must be said that there was hardly any career track from acting or the film industry to the governorship of california. It set a precedent for Arnold the Gobernator, and he did not have organizational skills from an SAG presidency to point too.
Its also a very established track in the Philippines, based on how many actors/senators there are.
Where do I sign to attest my fullest agreement to this assessment. If Mar Roxas keeps wishing happy anniversary on the occasion of tragedy, he will flame out fast. If Poe can’t stand for positive, rather than tear-down of Aquino’s progress, she is indeed little more than Binay light.
Very nicely said.
Cory Quirino is meant to be Cory Aquino.Freudian Slip.
She is a very pretty lady whom I used to know.
She is very pretty.
“Its really all up to Mar because his candidacy lives or dies whether his campaign can raise his popularity with the masa, and as much superiority, condescenscion and outright disdain one might have about the voting preferences of the masa, they are who most of our fellow citizens are and as plebeian, uninformed, and different their voting preferences are, the next president by necessity has to identify with their priorities, cares and concerns and not what a narrow slice of the voting population consider the best choice for the entire country.”
Fuck but Mar’s such a hard sell, no?
I think he should just be himself and work on becoming beautifully eloquent.
The kind of eloquent where he can sufficiently explain to a forum of a mixed demographic that any tax cuts should be made in consideration of the country’s credit rating… and the participants come out of it either with a decent level of understanding or armed with questions for the next discussion.
Man, won’t that be something.
(Daisy) We are rooting for MAR ROXAS because we believe that among the candidates, he possesses the necessary and desired qualifications to become President of the Philippines. In terms of merit alone – education, experience and skills – he’s the only one truly qualified. Add to that, character, integrity and trustworthiness, and ROXAS wins hands down! At the risk of sounding condescending or like a Kool-Aid drinker, I dare say there’s no one in the field who comes close to having his credentials. However, we’re also aware that different people think differently, have different frames of reference, and are motivated by different things. We can only hope that the best person receives the blessing of the majority in May 2016 – for the sake of the country! In our objective opinion, that person is MAR ROXAS!
I’m sure the Roxas supporters are nodding. Thanks for stopping by to comment.
yeah, that happy anniversary has not died in twitter bash world yet. Every one has their short comings and netizens are just waiting for the latest Faux Pax.
even if my vp of choice Trillanes supports Poe, I will still vote for Roxas
But Pnoy acknowledging that MILF killed Marwan is questionable The President should give that credit to the fallen SAF.
I don’t think the President acknowledged MILF killing of Marwan. He just said an alternative version was emerging. He is President of the indigeneous/Muslim community as well as the SAF. He must give consideration to both and have DOJ put the matter in order that he can understand and be confident of.
Ok Joe.
Excuse me for going out of topic …. I just cannot resist posting this incredible saga of Mamasapanot:
http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/721976/unidentified-caucasian-killed-in-mamasapano
Caucasian died in Mamasapano operation …. Now, that sure amused Obama in the quest for $25.0M reward money. Obama is not giving in. He is not giving the rewards. He wanted to be amused constantly by UP graduates.
Biazarre and incredible like a bazaar in Agdao.
Here is my prediction. Grace Poe will join Liberal Party and becomes Vice President to Mar Roxas.
Everybody is happy except the attack dogs of Binay.
really sorry but if mar accepts grace to lp then all hell will break loose.
she’s not a person who would wear the skin of daang matuwid well. far from it.
If you have time, JoeAm, go watch Heneral Luna the movie. Bewildered by the way Filipinos think with regards loyalty or heavens, patriotism? The movie says hello, where have you been, this is the Philippines. Intellectual elite, you said? Yes, and the valiant few. Perhaps Abraham’s ten good people are here with us, that’s why we have been spared so far. Comes now Grace, with the eternal smile (is it a smirk?). She knows she can get away with anything as long as she holds high the family crest—Poe not Llamanzares. And she knows she’s okay as long as we accept her citizenship—Filipino not American. Oh yes, we’re loyal, but loyal to people, not loyal to anything beyond our houses and petty concerns. I don’t like myself when I’m in this mood. It’ll pass. And then I’ll be positive again.
Well, I do get confused, as it seems that the matter of skill is overlooked at the ballot box, but when things don’t work right, they shout at the people they elected. I suppose when people start shouting at themselves for not thinking things through very well, then things will improve.
if i thought, then it may be…breaking news…breaking news.
comelec finaliize p and vp list. una-binay/marcos. independents-poe/escudero. lp-roxas/robredo and lone independent vp-trillanes.
several full moons later. comelec proclaims poe p winner with robredo vp elect. poe won by 25k votes over close runner up roxas. poe and robredo took their oaths as p and vp after proclaimed by congress. meanwhile roxas is just completing his election protest filed his protest with congress. again several half moons later, a deal was struck that a presidential pardon was given to pogi, sexy and lolo in exchange for admission of guilt for the sake of nation healing and moving on to priority of nation building. then a quarter moon later, the apo was interred at the libingan ng mga bayani with the leytena humming dahil sa iyo during the occasion with exvp n bong2 in attendance. so outraged was trilla that he asked his magdalo friends to march to luneta, lo and behold, many people joined the rally and they demanded for the american first family to vacate malacanan.
and so it was an american chopper that evacuated the americans (and ex-american) of malacanan. meanwhile, the serene and the holy ones gathered at monumento de rizal, near the photobomber torre de manila, with the holy one entangle providing the spiritual support, the serene one to administer the oath of office to the bicolana (whose beloved husband is the son of a tsina born here in pina). because of traffic jam at roxas blvd, it was the cars, taxis, jeepneys, buses, trucks and trikes that provided the beeps and oinks of the occasion with rest of the people who squezzed themselves among the spaces. and thus, leni and her girls moved into malcanan. and life was normal again and for the better for most pinoys.
3years later the electoral protest tribunal convened to hear the roxas issue…abangan ang new moon, the sequel. gude God is Great. and Thank You Lord for a Wonderful and Fun Philippines
okay, “beeps and oinks” sent me over the edge. Wonderful look at the future. I can hardly wait for it to play out. 🙂
Indeed. It’s not about technicalities but serious allegiance. Her past conduct shows otherwise. She has no qualms about being here nor there depending on what’s convenient at the moment. She has renounced her Filipino citizenship for the convenience of US residency, particularly, at a moment of turmoil in the Philippines. Now that she has a serious chance at the presidency, she wants to be Filipino. I bet she would be American again.or whatever should she fail in this quest.
Thanks for stopping by with an opinion, Gico. She does seem to me to be a bit of an opportunist. I temper that with the observation that most politicians are.
I really dont have a huge problem with Poes abilities, if she win the presidency, i have no problem with that. The thing that concerns me the most is Escudero. With Poe’s over reliance on him and her lack of experience, my spider sense is telling me that this wont end well.
What is that relationship all about? It almost seems kinky that Senator Poe is so attached. They speak for one another all the time. Indeed, it is likely to be a package at the ballot box and there is only one possible way to separate them. Vote for someone else.
Give it up!
To whom do you speak, and what is “it”. By the way, this is a discussion thread, not a chat room or a place for flame throwers to ride in and shoot their spit, then ride out again. Kindly make a point next visit.
LOL! You’re old, Joe. I’m pretty sure that’s a compliment, as in “Let’s give it up for…”
😃
Let us look beyond 2016… let’s look further ahead to 2022.
If Grace Poe decided to go ahead with her presidential ambition, I think Bongbong Marcos will retreat and maybe just try the VP post. The Marcoses will support Grace Poe. We all know Susan Roces and FPJ are very close to the Marcoses during their heydays. Marcos will not support Binay given the Binays’ mindset of dynastical rule and history of turning back from their supporters. If Grace Poe wins, then Bongbong Marcos has the best chance to be the next president in 2022. Why, because Grace Poe is alone and young. No one in her immediate horizon has the potential. Not even Escudero. Chiz is just a fly that can be easily swat by Marcos. Even Ongpin, Chiz closest financier at the moment will abandon him in favor of the Marcoses. This can happen because majority of the 2016 voters could no longer relate on the horrors of the Martial law years. And we already have a preview of what a binay presidency will look like. Question is, do you want this to happen?
One way not to let it happen is not to support either Grace Poe or Binay. As I posted earlier, a pragmatic approach is to choose among the current presidentiables who can do the least damage to our country. I think Mar Roxas is our safe choice. And if Roxas will choose Leni Robredo or Leila De Lima (the VP dark horse now) as his VP, then we can see a better 2022 ahead. We can proudly say to the next generations that we are leaving them in good hands.
So, my battlecry now is Leni Robredo or Leila de Lima in 2022!!!
Kindly factor in Bam Aquino. As far as I can tell, he is the only senator who is actually doing work for the people, proactively, rather than considering politics or special interests first. Maybe Sonny Angara, too, when he is not watching sports. Bam Aquino seems to think “I am a senator, an important job, and I’m going to do it to the best of my ability.” Okay, Pimentel is earnest, too. Just not dynamic.
yes, Joe. I admire Bam Aquino’s low-key work attitude. But he gets things done. I admire his works and Joey Con in their GoNegosyo programs to help SME’s. Bam has a lot of years ahead of him. 2026 will suit him best. Hope and pray I’m still alive by then, so I can still vote for him.
Yes, that is good, actually. 12 more years of good, nation-remodeling work in the senate, then finish it off with a flourish as President. 2028, I believe.
For me it is choosing between the lesser of two evils. Can Roxas win? If not, I have to choose Poe. That’s why the next survey is crucial specially for Roxas.
if voter a will think “can roxas win?” and use this reason not to vote for him, then that is one vote less for roxas…amplify that, then there will be more who would not be voting for roxas.
but if we think that roxas is the best option, and they vote for him then there will more votes counted for roxas…and the bigger the chances for roxas to win and the better odds for the birthland of many migrant dualtizens OFWs to become better and great again.
hopefully many retired dualtizens will return to birthland and enjoy the fruits of their labor, thus help in the economic boom. and if they stay for good and hire local domestictecian to care give for them, then there will be less incidence of domestic abuse of filipinas in filipina rooms in the foreign land.
and of course, the retired dualtizens can form their own not-for-profit NGOs and perhaps use their experience and talent to improve the life situations of their less fortunate fellow pinoys. gude and GOD BLESS US ALL..vote for mar roxas.
Juanlee, I am a firm believer in the law of attraction. You are right that if people do not vote for a candidate because they think that candidate will not win… then that candidate will not win. Isn’t that such a low-IQ way of voting? Which is why I also do not say “Ingat!” when saying my goodbyes since that implies there is danger lurking and we invariably end up attracting it.
Many of my baby boomer fellow immigrants have gone back to retire in the Phil. I think that trend will continue and I agree with you it will add a positive component to the evolution of the Phil.
There is only one poll that matters. That’s the one to be taken on 9 May 2016.
Other polls/surveys may have strategic value and may even take you to the ball park, but it is not the game.
All of us here are just entertainers — banging away on our key boards to display enlightened views that support or counter the articles viewpoint based on perceptions of our own ordinary often mirserable worldly life. Commenters here stripped the citizenship issue into layers for discussion — loyalty, economic expediencies, dates, honesty, conflicts of interest, emotional vs rational, etc etc..
For people tasked with the country’s well-being and security, little blips in the world keep them up at night. Citizenship for the presidency is viewed with cold steely eyes. It is one single issue for which there is no compromise, no looking into hearts. It’s un-emotional and unwavering. They don’t play dice with state security.
Aung Si Kyi had a much tougher time, and she never renounced her citizenship at any time. Was and has been a Myamar citizen at all times. The military junta never relented, partly because of power, and partly because her husband was and children are British citizens. They can never accept Brits in the Palace. She is now leader of the democratic opposition, it’s still left to see if she will occupy the throne. People clamour for her (emotions), the military keeps her at bay (steely eyes).
The citizenship (birth/allegiance issues) in the to do list of Sen. Grace Poe requires settlement for her to legally compete for the highest office in the land in 2016. I don’t know the exact details of the complaint and I get it that those are the requirements to be able to run for public office but I’m not really interested in knowing it just so I can have basis for what I’m going to say about her and her intention to run for the presidency.
Citizen or not, I think that Sen. Poe is not yet ready or should pass on the 2016 presidential race because I don’t believe she’s in it simply to serve the public. She’s there because the opportunity presented itself. In other words, she’s just taking advantage of the situation that at present favors her. The FPJ factor is what really drives the Grace Poe machine. She’s aspiring for the position her stepfather failed to covet and maybe thinking that she rightfully deserve it as payback consequence of what happened to him. In other words, I don’t buy the idea that she’s running with the interest of the country foremost in her mind.
A couple of years ago, since the time FPJ’s death, we have not heard of Grace Poe as an aspiring or an up and coming leader that FJP would want to get involve in politics. She was living abroad and only decided to come home to attend to family business after his death. And that is where it all started. As expected, as the usual way in our politics, name recall is the thing. A “Poe” surname will get you places and she soon realized this when PNoy enticed her to join the gov’t. not only once but twice to be a part of his administration and a guest candidate of his party (MTRCB head & senator). And the rest, as they say is history.
On the issue of ‘Americans in the Palace’, I don’t think the allegation, sans confirmation, merits any value to ordinary Filipinos. In fact, even if legally found to be wanting, most will agree that she’s really a Filipino. It’s a good political material to attack her qualification but won’t convince most people that she’s not like us. Anyway, the fear is, she could win it if she is not stopped. And to prevent that from happening the legal question as to her citizenship is what some people think might do it. 👮
Agree, jameboy. It’s like in a car race where the strategy of an aspirant hoping to win the race is to sabotage the engines of the other racer’s car to conk out along the way.
In a way it’s a sabotage and most people see it that way. As such, most of the time the strategy backfires because the subject often gets the sympathy for being unfairly prosecuted or being treated high-handedly. 💩
As for Bam Aquino, do we really want the Aquinos or any influential families for that matter to have the franchise, the patent, the exclusive right for the presidency? I mean, there are 100 million+ of us. Let us avoid tempting or teasing those people from families that have monopolize powers for years on end to pursue a goal or set an ambition to aspire to be president. I feel that we have to make a deliberate effort to diversify our way of choosing and grooming leaders of tomorrow. Okay, I’ll give Noynoy the pass because at that time had he not run the possibility is great that Erap could have captured Malacanang the second time around and we’ll be the biggest joke in the entire world.
I don’t mind them being governors, congressmen, etc. just stay away from the presidency because their elders had they turn already and we’ve never been the better for it.
Even if the objective this time, for example, is to stop Jojo Binay I would rather go for those whom I think is more deserving and more representative of what and who we are: people who have the equal opportunity to become what they aspire for because they have the intelligence, skills and talent to do it and not just name-recall like a Marcos, Revilla, Estrada, Aquino, etc.
I think it’s about time for Filipinos to take that leap of faith in order to change the constancy, the boredom and abuses in the way we run things on political matters. 🙈
He’s a nephew of the President, I think, not a close family member. I think he is outside the bounds of what is being considered anti-dynasty restrictions. He doesn’t hang out with Kris or name-drop his uncle. He works. He’s a case in point of why anti-dynasty laws would not be necessary if the voters were attuned to skill and achievement rather than name. I would find it a shame to exclude the one senator who is doing it the right way . . . because of his name. Let reason prevail. Character, competence.
Find some other people of equal skill and experience with a different name, and . . . sure, put them up for visibility and politics. I’ve asked readers in the past to name some alternatives in the business arena, and it is hard to find them. They make too much money in business.
Air Fluff Feather Echo Hollow
These words come to mind when I think of Grace,
so what has she got to offer, save from image
and imagination, could it be true that she
wants to be president for personal reasons
quite apart from leading and saving the country,
oh yes, she was on top of surveys, and that’s
all, that’s all she has in her head, that she
can win this, never mind if she’s a kindergarten
teacher and her husband and children are (what?!)
American citizens, what has gotten into her
head—an empty head is the devil’s playground—
and did it not occur to her that she won’t win
and the admin candidate can actually lose
because people who will flock to her will vote
for her because she can make a difference,
she can make a difference, oh yes, for Binay
who will have his 37 per cent intact, Mar’s
57 per cent will be split in two, a confusing
situation, because she said she represents
the people but how can she when even the
President can’t make her go down from the
Tree of the Knowledge of Power on which
she has climbed, never to let go, until she
makes it to Malacañang, Lord Almighty,
save us from pretenders who have no love for us,
just love for themselves, that they are the stars,
the moon and the sun and when they ascend to
the seat of power, what has the country got to do
with it, it’s just a job, the presidency, my father
should be the one sitting here, she would
say, I have my revenge, The Big One is not
the earthquake, it’s Grace Poe,
the one with the big head.
Will
September 15, 2015
Wham. Powerful. That’s it. Such vanity, devoid of national conscience. I don’t think she’d make a very good American, frankly.
Reminds me of a song my father used to sing around the house, oh a year or six decades ago: “I don’t want her, you can have her, she’s too fat for me!”
I suppose it was a popular song back in the raucous days after the war, jazzed up with sax and champagne. Today, our great social awareness would require “weight challenged”, but that’s another matter.
“I don’t want her, you can have her, her head’s too fat for me!”
Thanks, Joe. The Big One.
Got dizzy reading all the posts about Poe at Raissa’s. Victin Luz is relentless.
Her statement in the INC’s brouhaha created a crack if not a dent on her. How she’s reacting to issues is so trapo. I doubt if she can sustain a nationwide presidential campaign without keeping her feet on the ground, because what I see in her is that, she’s up in the clouds. There’s another impending blow against her when she will declare Chiz as her VP.
Her platform is to be presented today. That, too, will be interesting to read.
There is something strange about this whole citizenship issue.
I am a Filipino and was born a filipino. Now I am a Canadian citizen. Under Philippine law, even if dual citizenship is recognized, I was stripped of my Philippine citizenship when I took an oath to be a Canadian.
In other words, Philippine law deemed me to have renounced my Philippine citizenship. Even if I didn’t actually renounce it (“I renounce being a Filipino”), I was deemed to have renounced it by taking an oath to become Canadian.
When you think about it – it is just all labels. It has nothing to do with what’s in my heart and mind.
The strangeness of it all is that the Philippines recognizes dual (or more) citizenship. Yet it treats its “former” citizens as if they betrayed their country for taking an oath to be a citizen of another country.
So what is it Philippines? Are your compatriots now traitors for purposes of qualifying them to run for office? But they’re heroes for sending money home or sending balikbayan boxes home and for maintaining ties to home (like relatives and friends?).
I am a loyal canadian citizen. I am a loyal filipino too (even if under the law I am deemed to have renounced my citizenship and must reacquire it). But woe and damn to anyone back home who will say that I am a traitor to the Philippines or someone who is suddenly foreign and alien.
I agree that anyone who wishes to be president of the Philippines must only have one citizenship. And that’s what Grace Poe has done. But when she lived in the States and became an American, it was laws that prevented her from maintaining her Filipino citizenship.
The Filipino has become a global citizen. We are everywhere. And because we are everywhere, the definition of what is Filipino should be drastically revised. No more of this “traitor for being a citizen of another country” BS! Many of us have become citizens of other countries even if many of us have lived most of our lives in the Philippines. Many of us may be married or partnered with non-Filipinos. Many of us may have kids that are multi-racial.
To all those doubting the allegiances of Filipinos who now live abroad – -I say this – – -“Do not divide Filipinos based on where they live”. Filipinos living outside of the Philippines are as Filipino as those living back home.
And to those who have hangups about Grace Poe and the fact that she once was an american citizen, I say this:
a. Stop considering Filipinos living in the States as Fil-Ams (or Fil-Can or Fil-Aussie, etc. if you conveniently consider them “traitors” or of doubtful allegiances when they go back home.
b. Stop being xenophobic and stop falling into the divisive mentality of considering those who left the Philippines as somehow less Filipino yet welcoming their monies, etc. and hailing them as heroes.
c. Stop thinking that we renounced Philippine citizenship. If Philippine law truly allows dual (or more citizenships), we should not be considered as having renounced Philippine citizenship unless we actually go to the Philippine embassy and consulate to renounce Philippine citizenship. It is strange that we are considered to have renounced it even if the law allows us to have multiple citizenship.
In many countries, the fact that one acquires the citizenship of another country does not make them lose the citizenship of their original country unless a formal and direct act of renounciation is made.
I am really sick and tired of this nationalist rant against Filipinos who became citizens of other countries and making them seem less Filipino.
If that’s how many people feel about us, then don’t call us heroes, don’t get all riled up about balikbayan boxes, and don’t start attaching the word “Fil” when you start claiming that we are part of the Philippines or have a Philippine heritage.
Because if you do, you are nothing but hypocrites who want to divide the Philippines and throw all of us who are living in other lands and have acquired the citizenship of other countries as traitors when it is convenient to treat us as such.
I am always and forever a Filipino even if the laws have deemed me as having renounced my citizenship by becoming canadian.
It is really absurd.
And that same absurdness applies to those who fear Grace Poe as having allegiances to the USA.
Thanks for adding a new perspective to the discussion, Gerry, the recognition that many Filipinos are abroad and only going through the citizenship routine there to be able to live and earn and support the Philippines. Possibly it does apply to Grace Poe. As I look at some of her deeds, I see politician, and one of little diplomacy. I can’t really read her heart, on loyalty, but I do know many people are raising the issue.
Gerry is right. It is not just the leftist who say that those who leave are traitors.Even some bloggers,commenters(not here of course) maybe for effect. They all live in a bubble.We never ran out of crabs and inggiteros.
Add me to those who say taking oath to the US by Grace is not betraying the country.
Economic reasons or not.I will not vote for her,but not becase of all those legal circus.
In my writing, I often try to channel what others are thinking. I am a great believer in mental and emotional toughness, and in reason and discipline and dedication to principles, and achievement. In that context, citizenship is absolutely irrelevant. But when Senator Poe exhibits, through her deeds, a lack of those qualities, then citizenship and loyalty become important issues. She ought not be playing with the Philippines and Filipinos for her own personal aggrandizement. It makes her little different than Binay. Just poorer, financially.
I think she is a player and a gamer.
Yes, and very good at it. For herself. Not necessarily us.
Joe,
When John Kerry ran for US president, his wife was a Portuguese citizen as well as American. And people – -particularly the republicans were branding Kerry – -by virture of marriage – -as someone who could not be totally trusted because he was married to a foreigner. They were saying this about a guy who has shown complete loyalty to the US, who fought in Vietnam, and who served in the US government. It is a polarizing argument that taps into the nativist sentiments (something that Trump and his ilk are exploiting now a days) of many Americans who fear change.
And so when I see the same arguments leveled against Grace Poe, I know that those raising these arguments are tapping into the ultra nationalist, purists, and xenophobic psyche of many Filipinos.
The spouse of Grace Poe is Filipino. His parents are Filipinos. When he moved to the states in the 80s, he acquired American citizenship. What’s wrong with that. I am sure he just did what many Filipinos do when they move to a new country – -that is learn to become part of the fabric of that country and become citizens. I am sure if you asked him in the 80s if he wanted to renounce Philippine citizenship, I am sure he would say no. But he never had a choice (just as me – who became a citizen of Canada in 2012). Once we take an oath to be a citizen of another country – -the Philippines considers us as having renounced our Philippine citizenship.
Grace Poe married Neil and acquired American citizenship in the process. She did nothing out of the ordinary. She simply did in the 90s what most Filipinos would do in her situation – -acquire American citizenship. I am sure if you asked her then if she wanted to renounce her Philippine citizenship, she would say what most Filipinos would say – -which is “NO”. But again, she had no choice. Philippine law considers her as having renounced it.
As to her deeds – – please attribute that to her personality/experiences/etc. But please do not impute it to the fact that she became an American citizen. It has nothing to do with that. To question her patriotism simply because she became an American in the past ignores that situation all Filipinos who become citizens of other countries undergoes and it also gives fuel to the argument that all of us living abroad who are citizens of other countries are “less Filipino” that those who live back home even as the Philippines now recognizes dual (and multiple) citizenship.
Her husband and kids do not have to renounce their American citizenship. They are not running for office. They won’t hold office if Grace Poe becomes president. In fact, when Panfilo Lacson was considering running for president in the past, his entire family lived in the US and were citizens (or green card holders). No one questioned Lacson’s patriotism to the Philippines nor demanded that his family change their status. The same situation applied to Fred Lim when he ran for president in 1998 and his family were living in the US and were citizens (or at least green card holders).
And here, you have Neil and the kids – -agreeing to uproot themselves from the US – – -and going back to the philippines to make a life there – – -and reacquiring Philippine citizenship — and now they are being seens alien, foreign, untrustworthy, etc. Honestly, if they didn’t give a damn about the Philippines, they could have just decided to stay in the US and say – – to hell with the Philippines and we are not going back to that god-forsaken hell hole. No. They went back. And now their patriotism is being questioned.
To demand them to renounce their American citizenship is akin to people demanding that Teresa Heinz-Kerry renounce her portuguese citizenship even if she was also an American citizen when John Kerry ran for president. And we do know that those making that demand were the rightest of the right of the American political spectrum who are to be honest, bigots in the truest sense of the word.
you don’t need to renounce your citizenship if you marry a foreigner. if you serve in the US armed forces, yes, that’s automatic renunciation.
Poe didn’t have to renounce her citizenship. as a resident, she could have all the privileges of an American except the blue passport and the right to vote.
But see – – if she decides to acquire the citizenship of her spouse (or get an american green card to be able to work in the US) – – – many Filipinos will think that is tantamount to renunciation.
Look – – I never went to the Philippine consulate and signed an affidavit saying “I don’t want to be a Filipino – and I renounce my citizenship”.
You make it appear that that’s what all Filipinos have done. No. The law simply considers us as having “renounced” by acquiring a different citizenship.
But look at this absurdity – – -it will allow us to go to the consulate and on the same day deemed to have reacquired our Philippine citizenship by signing a form and paying a fee.
And here’s another absurdity – – – the Philippines seems nothing wrong with dual citizenship. It never declares people with dual citizenship as traitors, etc. But here you have someone who no longer has dual citizenship and her patriotism is still being questioned.
If renunciation was so big a deal to people like you, so why then does the Philippines allow us traitors to reacquire Philippine citizenship by merely paying a fee and filing an affidavit. If you feel so strongly about all this citizenship label, then I think you should support the following:
a. Immediate repeal of the dual citizenship law
b. Ending of the policy of allowing reacquisition of Filipino citizenship (because whatever we do, we will never be seen as really become a real filipino again)
c. Immediate stoppage of using terms like Fil-Am, Fil-Can, Fil-Aussie because truth is, we are no longer Filipinos and are traitors or less patriotic or less trustworthy.
Look at the absurdity of it all.
If you will call me less of a Filipino simply because I am now a Canadian citizen even if I am involved in Philippine affairs and caring about what happens to my country, and maintaining my ties with my filipino friends back home, and bonding with my fellow filipinos in Canada – – -then that will be a very, very sad situation indeed because you have now divided the Philippines into new categories and segments and judging them on who is more filipino and less filipino.
as Rep Robredo said, nothing “wrong” with it, since it is even a law, but doing it then seeking the highest position in the land is just indefensible. maybe legal but not moral as they say
as I said below..sinuka mo na tapos kakainin mo ulit
So wait – – – -if a Filipino who becomes American reacquires Philippine citizenship and goes back home to fund Philippine startups – – I am sure you will say that person is admirable and a true Filipino.
But here you have a Filipino who was american and reacquired Philippine citizenship and goes back home to do public service and be part of government – -that person is now an opportunist and evil and less patriotic and untrustworthy?
If that’s the case, then the constitution should say that none of millions of Filipinos who became citizens of other countries cannot serve in Philippine government and help reform the system because they are not MORALLY FIT TO RUN FOR OFFICE.
Wow. Thank you Philippines for condemning your fellow Filipinos abroad who you now consider less moral, less patriotic, less trustworthy, etc. that all of you back home.
That is why we never prosper – – we love a slice and dice our country and judge one as more worthy over the other.
Whoa, Nellie, you are taking this in a direction wholly not intended. No one is questioning your moral bearing or or patriotism or trustworthiness, and you are accusing the Philippines (and good Filipinos) of discriminating against you, when the nation is simply following international protocols, designating who is a citizen of what nation, entitled to certain rights by that designation. Take the argument off the Philippines and ask why other nations have the same laws and standards?
You took an oath to Canada. That means something.
You can re-acquire full rights as a citizen of the Philippines when returning to the Philippines.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CO_JWCOUsAAi8up.jpg:large
Joe – -I am not taking it personally.
But by making those arguments against grace poe on the citizenship front, you are making those arguments against all of us who took an oath to another country.
Okay – – -so I am a Canadian citizen. I am not running for office – – for president of the Philippines.
But let’s say – for some freak accident – -I do run in say 2028 – – and for some freak accident, I actually become very popular and famous because somehow, I become this super successful businessman in Canada.
So now I want to go back to the Philippines in say 2018 – – – – -and I reacquire Phillippine citizenship – – and I live there for 10 years. And btw, I renounce my Canadian citizenship. And then i use the money I earned in Canada as a super rich billionaire – – and I donate to charities back home and I also set up several businesses at home that become successful.
And so now 2028 comes – – and I decide I am running for president.
So now – – will now someone say I was less filipino.
The reason why there is a 10 year residency requirement is that it prevents the situation where someone returns to the Philippines right before an election and runs. If grace poe returned from the States in 2014 and decides to run for the 2016 election, then count me in and let us question whether she is being opportunistic or not.
But there is that 10 year residency requirement. During that time, one should demonstrate now one’s true love for the Philippines.
To the constittution, one only needs to be:
a. Natural born
b. A Philippine citizen
c. 10 year resident prior to assuming office
d. 40 years old.
That 10 years is there for a reason. It prevents precisely the opportunism that arises when once loses citizenship and reacquires it. The assumption made by the constitution is that 10 years is enough time to “prove” your filipino-ness again.
So if you still think that she was an opportunist even after she came back home in 2004 and has lived here now for 11 years, then I think even 15 or 20 years will never be enough.
In the end, one just needs to look at the constitution.
From a law perspective, she is in good ground.
From a factual perspective, she needs to prove those 10 years residency.
I think that’s what’s lost here. This whole – -prove your loyalty etc and prove youre not an opportunist – – -well, she didn’t move to the Philippines yesterday and run for president. She has lived here now for 10 years.
And that’s one thing I don’t see anyone even mention here in this blog.
Now – – do I support grace poe. I told you previously in an old post that I was for her but I have doubts about her judgement and competence.
But I won’t join the people here who question her patriotism and love of country. If she is a politician and is being too ambitious or opportunistic now – -then so be it. But I will never ever question her Filipino loyalty because she has in fact returned 10 years ago and making sure she complies with that requirement under the constitution.
If the constitution felt that any Filipino who had previously renounced Philippine citizenship has no right to ever run for president – -it should have said so. It never did.
And if the constitution felt that one must have lived in the Philippines at least 20 years before becoming president to be truly considered filipino – – it should have said so. But the constitution did say that 10 years was good enough. We cannot impose a requirement higher than that 10 years.
Yes Joe – – I am not saying that the “natural born” requirement is something to be done away with. As a Canadian citizen, I can never be Prime Minister because I wasn’t a natural born / native born Canadian. Fine.
And many Fil-Ams cannot run for president of the US for the same reason. That’s why arnold swarcheneger can only be governor but not president.
And the Philippines also has the same laws.
So applying that:
a. Grace Poe is a natural born citizen. If anyone disputes that, it will be on the argument that she was a “foundling” – – -but even that is insane.
b. Now – -once natural born, forever natural born. If you can show to me a law that says “natural born” status can be changed, then you’re the genius the Grace Poe opposition would love to hear from. But no – – since natural status happens at the time of one’s birth – -it can never be taken away. So yes, Grace Poe is a natural born citizen.
c. Next requirement, is she a citizen of the Philippines. Yes she is. She is now. Sure she lost it. But the constitution doesn’t say if you lost your citizenship, you can never run for president or be president. It simply says you must be a citizen when you become president.
d. Now, I totally get you when you say – -that’s dangerous. YOu have these people who will conveniently switch allegiance just so once can run for president. Well, here’s the good news. The constitution never made it easy for opportunists to run for president. That’s why it imposed a 10 year residency. For whatever sin someone who took allegiance to another country – – that sin is atoned and remedied by residing in the Philippines for 10 years. The constitution appears to think that 10 years is enough time to show one is truly loyal to the Philippines.
And yes – -Grace Poe must prove that she has indeed resided in the Philippines for 10 years.
Not that the 10 years is on the residency – – -not on the citizenship. The consitution never said you must be a citizen for at least 10 years before running for office/ assume office (I think assume office is basis). No – it said you must have resided in the Philippines for 10 years.
If the constitution felt that no amount of time can cure the defect of losing one’s citizenship – -it should have said so. BUt it never did.
And if the constitution felt 10 years was too short, it would never made it a “litmus” test to begin with. To the constitution, 10 year works.
So there – – – – that’s my position.
Okay – – I’m chill if you consider those with allegiances to other countries as not the same as other filipinos in the eyes of the law. That’s fair. I can’t run for president today. that’s for sure.
But as I tried to point out here, the constitution does put those litmus tests and I think Grace Poe passes it.
It is another thing to question her competence, etc. I actually think she is not ready to be president and would have wanted her to run with Mar as VP.
But I won’t join this bandwagon in this blog that is questioning her patriotism, her filipinoness etc. and imposing standards more than what the constitution actually imposes.
And to me – – -that whole worry of her filipinoness is addressed squarely by the consitution by deeming 10 years residency as sufficient to prove one’s loyalty to the Philippines.
I appreciate you making your case. I’m sure you speak for many.
The oath you took to become an American citizen says, in part:
“I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen; that I will support and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States of America …”
You did disavow allegiance to the Philippines.
Oops. My bad. Canadian . . . brb
“I swear (or affirm) that I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II, Queen of Canada, Her Heirs and Successors, and that I will faithfully observe the laws of Canada and fulfil my duties as a Canadian citizen.”
A little softer. But Grace Poe for sure renounced her Philippine citizenship and allegiance.
I swear (or affirm) that I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth the Second, Queen of Canada, her heirs and successors, and that I will faithfully observe the laws of Canada and fulfil my duties as a Canadian citizen.
*************
Okay – the US oath seems to be explicit.
But here’s the thing – – -that’s the way the oath is worded. And honestly, it is what it is.
But to question her loyalty to the Philippines now is not a productive exercise. Why?
a. The requirement is simply that one be a natural born citizen. She was. And once a natural born citizen, you’re always to have been a natural born citizen.
b. Losing her citizenship means she was for a period, not a Philippine citizen. And that disqualified her to run.
c. But having reacquired Philippine citizenship, the only issue now is whether she meets the residency requirement.
All the extraneous arguments that she is probably less of a Filipino or less patriotic that Filipinos who never acquired the citizenship of another country – – -would be a telling statement that tells me and all those who are now citizens of other countries that we are “less filipino, less patriotic, less trustworthy, etc.”.
You’d have to study case law on the subject or get into the minds of those who drafted the Constitution, but, yes, it seems to me that Filipinos who have registered citizenship elsewhere are considered something less (less loyal, more a risk) than local Filipino citizens, just as I am considered less even though I live here and perhaps participate more than most. Grace Poe will be an interesting case if that “less than” can be recaptured by an oath back to the Philippines. That is what is being argued, and there are different minds about it. This is all rather superficial stuff, because it can’t read the hearts and minds of the individual. They are just tests or benchmarks to establish some rules. Best not to take them personally, I think.
I am a Canadian now.
If a natural born Canadian considers me not a “real” Canadian because I didn’t grow up in Canada creates a new class of citizens that is less Canadians than those born in Canada (even if Canada adheres by the jus sanguinis principle of citizenship).
It is interesting too if my original country, the Philippines – -now considers me less Filipino and now a Canadian by taking an oath to Canada.
In other words – -all people with 2 or more citizenships – — are in this state of limbo where they are never truly citizens of any the countries they are citizens of.
By law, yes, they are in limbo. By heart and mind, most are probably loyal citizens of 2 or more countries.
But by making those arguments against grace poe on the citizenship front, you are making those arguments against all of us who took an oath to another country.
Okay – – -so I am a Canadian citizen. I am not running for office – – for president of the Philippines.
But let’s say – for some freak accident – -I do run in say 2028 – – and for some freak accident, I actually become very popular and famous because somehow, I become this super successful businessman in Canada. – Gerry
==========
I think you are stretching it too far. Grace Poe’s case is a unique one because there is an FPJ (don’t forget that) factor in the equation. She’s not popular nor a success before PNoy plucked her from obscurity. She’s just a simple Mrs. Llamanzares remember?
Those inquiries and criticisms and doubts as to her person is a normal part of the political environment and process she decides to join in. Opportunist or not, it is really up to her to prove her critics wrong. People simply don’t know her. I don’t know her, you don’t know her, I assume. To run for the highest office of the land she will encounter issues meant to magnify, expose and uncover who the real Grace Poe is.
With regard to the Constitutional prohibition, I’m with you that she could pass it if what you alleged as evidence of her residency is accurate. However, in case she failed, which is a possibility, I’m of the opinion that majority of the Filipinos will not agree that she is ‘less Filipino’ than the rest of us just because a legal document says so. 😎
Gerry, as to the renunciation issue, there’s no doubt that applicants for citizenship (US, Canada, etc,) are required to comply with the oath of allegiance with the adopted country. It is not really a personal rejection of one’s own country but a legal and formal procedure of compliance requiring one to manifest in a legal process his or her intent to submit and support the laws of his/her adopted country. It’s not an evidence of one’s abhorrence or dislike of one’s country of origin. I agree with you on that. Actually, the term ‘renounce’ is given a negative meaning projecting personal motive grounded on something sinister or immoral against one’s former country. It’s unfair but that’s politics. 😎
DAgimas
Ano ba ang katangian ng isang ulirang Pilipinang asawa? Di ba ito ang sundan ang kapalaran ng kaniyang asawa kahit anuman iyon. Sa katayuan ni Grace Poe na wala man lang sa pangarap na maging kasapi sa kalakarang political ng Pilipinas ng mga panahong iyon, diba nararapat na sumunod lamang sya sa katayuan ng kanyang asawa. Tama si Gerry. Ang kapakanan ng pamilya ang iniisip ng mga kababayang nangngibang bansa. Hindi ba ito ang dapat isaisip ng isang ina? Kung ang pagiging American citizen ang makaktulong sa iyong pamilya, bakit hindi mo gagawin? Bilib nga ako sa knaiya sapgkat hindi niya inisip na umasa na lamang sa maiiwang kayamanan ng kaniyang mga magulang.
Ako ay nanggigigil sa mg taong nagmamaliit sa kaniyang pagiging kindergarten titser. Hindo bat kahanga hanga ang isang taong nagsusimikap na mamuhay ng mabuti kaysa lamang sa umasa sa kaniyang magulang na hindi naman matatawaran ang kariwasaan.
Noong mga panahong iyon, sa palagay mo ba may nais pa niyang bumalik sa Pilipinas? Di bat nagpasiya na siay na magtrabaho at doon na nga nakapagasawa. Sa palagay mo ba ng mga panahngah iyon ay may balak pa siyang bumalik sa Pilipinas?
Ano nga ba ang naging dahilan ng kaniyang pagbalik ? Nakalimutan mo na ata na ang dahilan ay ang pagkamatay ng kaniyang ama noong 2004. Wala ng kasama ang kaniyang ina kayat minabuti na lang niyang bumalik.
as i said, she didnt have to renounce it..
Sure, she didn’t have to.
Does the constitution bar someone who renounced filipino citizenship from becoming president.
No it doesn’t.
You are imposing a requirement that the framers of the constitution didn’t even see as necessary.
If you’re worried that she is a traitor or less of a filipino or an opportunist, well the framers solved that by requiring that:
a. Once be natural born (she is – -and never loses that status because once natural born, always natural born. It is a status that is acquired upon birth)
b. Requires that one be a flipino citizen (she is now).
c. And requires 10 year residency. Sure she has to prove this. But it seems the framers consider this the “absolution” to those who renounced filipino citizenship. . . . .that they just can reacquire filipino citizenship and run – – -they must have resided in the Philippines for 10 years.
d. And lastly, one must be 40 years old.
So again – -can you please point to me where in the constitution that someone says:
Anyone who renounces Philippine citizenship and later on reacquires it is banned from ever becoming president.
Your requirements are all arguments out of passion – – but when we go to the constitution – -even the constitution doesn’t ban ex-filipinos who have again become filipino citizens from becoming president.
Yep you did. But I said “ang kapakanan ng pamilya ang iniisip”. Certainly there are advantages for the children if both parents are citizens. I think many of our countrymen if put in her position would also decide as she did.
Gerry,
I am Canadian citizen, too. And we cannot run as Prime Minister bec we’re not natural born Canadians. When we took our allegiance to Queen Elizabeth, (even if some Fil-Canadians only did it for economic reasons), we chose to abide by the rules of Canada. We hate it when we are discirminated against at the workplace or anywhere else. We are so vocal and yes, we follow the laws of Canada and the province where we reside. So as former citizens of the Philippines, we cannot demand that Filipinos in the Philippines recognize Grace Poe to be a TRUE FILIPINO. It’s like having her cake and eating it, too. When we renounced our Filipino citizenship, we didn’t renounce our Filipino heritage, but YES, we switched our loyalties. We did it for our own self interests, for our own agenda. So,as former citizens of the Philippines, let’s quit defending Grace Poe Llamanzares, by saying she’s still a Filipino at heart, blah blah blah. She better go back to the States and seek a local seat in a county where there are a plenty of Pinoys.
*******
As a Fil-Aussie, I can empathize.
Allegiance is not demarcated by a certificate of citizenship. It is demarcated by how one feels and what one thinks.
However, in my view, there are are aspects of allegiance regarding Grace. Her taking up US citizenship and renouncing it is not an issue with me.
But the allegiance of her spouse is. There is a potential conflict of interest and, where there is such, that conflict must be divested… preferably beforehand.
Binay is a natural-born citizen and his allegiance might be more in question than Grace’s. His allegiance seems to be more to himself, his family and his minions than to the nation.
The question is: As reflected in her actions and judgments, is it the same with Grace?
*****
I am glad we are on the same page regarding Grace Poe’s citizenship and patriotism.
But as to her spouse and children – -here’s my position:
1. They are not running for office. To require them to renounce means that we are imposing a new requirement for someone to run for office – -that is their spouse or children should be a citizen of no other country other than the Philippines.
2. To impose that requirement is not supported by law nor is it practical.
Why? We have a dual citizenship law. If dual citizenship is recognized in the Philippines, this means that the state sees nothing wrong about it or inherently dangerous. If that’s the case, why then can’t the spouse/children of a president be treated the same way as other filipinos of dual or multiple citizenship when that spouse is not holding office.
On a practical perspective, it will mean that no filipino who wants to run for president should ever marry a “foreigner”. So lets’ say Noynoy in 2008 fell in love with a woman who is Indian and a citizen of India and he met her in say, New Delhi. Will we now say in 2010 that NoyNoy cannot be trusted because he is married to an Indian?
Will we now say that NoyNoy can’t be trusted because he will reveal secrets to his Indian wife who will possibly betray the Philippines to her Indian compatriots?
And so we now say that NoyNoy’s wife must renounce her Indian citizenship and become a Filipino citizen. I am sure even if we grant her Filipino citizenship and she renounces Indian citizenship, people will still say she will never be a true or real filipino and still can’t be trusted.
As you can see, patriotism and loyalty is being judged based on “documents” and “labels” rather than the content of a person’s character and actions.
That’s why I say that only the person running for office (particularly for president) should renounce his/her foreign citizenship but that requirement should not be demanded of his/her family.
You can rant at the absurdities of it all but unless we amend the constitution, there’s nothing we can do about it. (I am with you, seems unfair, but no one is calling you a traitor, you did it for economic reasons) but then we are not the framers of the said fundamental law of the land, we ratified it not knowing that one Grace Poe will be given a chance to be a government official. That is one complication that was not foreseen. Life is unfair, it sometimes sucks but the law and the constitution has to be respected. We have the courts to help us interpret and unravel everything. If they rule that she is qualified, that’s it, the electorate will now decide based on qualification and character.
Let’s wait.
*******
It is the potential conflict of interest that is the issue. If Poe’s husband was willing to move back to the Philippines, for what reason would he refuse to take up Filipino citizenship again? It is not only the substance of allegiance that must be adhered to, it is also the appearance. One cannot have one’s cake and eat it too.
Also read the Oath of Allegiance as quoted by JoeAm.
*****
That’s fine.
If you can quote to me a law that requires the spouse of a candidate for president to be solely Filipino and that her kids be solely filipino, then I’d be glad to concede. But I am sure you can find no law on that. The arguments being made are not legal but more of “moral” arguments.
As to citizenship, sure, let the courts decide.
All I’m saying is that the constitution says one must be a natural born citizen.
And honestly, once a natural born, always a natural born.
One may lose citizenship but not the fact that one was natural born.
And citizenship lost can be reacquired.
And so, if one is:
a. Natural born
b. A citizen of the Philippines
c. At least a 10 year resident
d. And I think 40 years old at the time one takes office, then the person can become president of the Philippines.
As simple as that.
If you can show to me past rulings or a law that says:
a. Natural born status can be lost, then hail to you. You win.
b. That citizenship lost cannot be reacquired. Then you win.
I suppose you could call it moral, as that’s what laws are built on. Sometimes it is just gut feelings or personal dislikes, or ways we all make up our minds about complex issues. People are entitled to their reservations, even if based on total ignorance, and that’s what a ballot box is for. To sort them out.
I’m for sure not in it to win an argument, just represent a view held by many.
But there’s the rub – – – – -even the constitution didn’t consider it a moral issue. If it did – – it would have completely banned all filipinos that acquired the citizenship of another country from ever becoming president. But it didn’t.
So if people feel it is not right – -then sure – -amend it.
But as far as I know, the framers studies these situations and didn’t consider it fatal. That’s why what they required is that one be natural born. I guess they felt that as long as one is natural born – – – -that is a good foundation to start with. I have stated to in many places in this blog my position on the 10 year residency and the citizenship requirement and no need for me to repeat here.
I know you to be a man of laws. And honestly, all I’m doing here is pointing out the laws and that even the framers didn’t see the situation of losing one’s citizenship and then reacquiring it as fatal. If they had considered that a big moral issue, they should have banned then ex-filipinos. But they didn’t. That shows that to them – – it was not “immoral” and if ever it was – – it was remediable (by acquiring filipino citizenship and residing 10 years).
OKay to represent the view held by many – – but isn’t your role too to enlighten and not just to report. I have seen you express your opinions and so there’s no reason to suddenly withhold it in this case.
But okay – – -that’s another issue – – and to me a non- issue.
But at least I was able to express the consitutional provisions – – because those got lost in the whole article and in the comments of many of your readers.
So I went back to basics and made sure those requirements are reiterated.
The constitution says, natural born citizen of the Philippines then went on to define NBCP as someone who is a citizen by birth without doing additional process to declare her or him as so. Since we follow jus sanguinis (citizenship by blood of the parents) the court has to rule whether a foundling whose parents are unknown will be declared NBCP. You see, a foundling found in the Philippines maybe a child of foreigners who may look like Filipinos in features or skin color. In her renunciation of his oath of allegiance to USA, she was supposed to have reverted back to her status before taking that oath, now, what is that status, natural or not?… the court has to rule on that.
That’s what I meant when I say we have to amend the constitution in Poe’s case or in others with similar situations like being a foundling. In other Filipinos in diaspora, I think there is no need as they will just revert to their NBCP status when they renounce their oath of allegiance to the country where they are citizens of.
My understanding and opinion only, I will accept any correction or clarification.
Gerry,
Below is an article just published in the Inquirer. Interesting to compare the mayor’s position with that of Grace Poe who was reported to have used her US passport after renouncing her US citizenship.
Kauswagan mayor loses post over citizenship issue
A PERSON who became a US citizen, renounced it and re-acquired Filipino citizenship, then took an oath of allegiance but used the American passport several times cannot run for public office, the Supreme Court said.
In a 21-page decision penned by Associate Justice Mariano del Castillo, the high court dismissed the petition filed by Rommel C. Arnado and affirmed the Commission on Elections (Comelec) ruling disqualifying him to sit as mayor of Kauswagan, Lanao del Norte.
Arnado is a natural-born Filipino citizen who became an American citizen as a consequence of his naturalization. He relinquished his American citizenship and on July 10, 2008 he took his oath of allegiance to the Republic of the Philippines. Then, on April 3, 2009 he executed an affidavit of renunciation of his foreign citizenship.
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That same year, Arnado filed his Certificate of Candidacy (COC) to run for mayor of Kauswagan, Lanao del Norte for the 2010 polls. A petition was filed to disqualify him saying he is still a US citizen due to his continued use of his US passport.
The Comelec First Division disqualified Arnado but its en banc reversed the ruling saying his use of his US passport did not operate to revert his status to dual citizenship. While the case was pending, the filing of COCs has started for the 2013 elections. Arnado again filed his COC for the same position.
Eventually, in 2013, the high court reversed the Comelec en banc’s ruling.
Then, a disqualification case was again filed against Arnado citing the high court’s 2013 ruling that disqualified him for the 2010 post.
Then, Arnado was proclaimed winner in the 2013 polls.
The Comelec second division disqualified Arnado, citing his failure to comply with the requirements under Republic Act No. 9225 otherwise known as the Citizenship Retention and Reacquisition Act of 2003 of making personal and sworn renunciation of any and all foreign citizenship.
Comelec said while he executed an Affidavit of Renunciation in 2009, it is deemed withdrawn after he used his US passport to travel abroad. Arnado appealed the ruling to the Comelec en banc, which only affirmed the decision of the Comelec’s 2nd division.
Arnado then went to the high court which upheld the Comelec’s ruling.
The high court, in its recent ruling, said Arnado failed to correct the faults in the re-acquisition of his Filipino citizenship that became the basis for his disqualification in the 2010 elections.
“Only natural-born Filipinos who owe total and undivided allegiance to the Republic of the Philippines could run for and hold elective public office,” the high court said.
“The Court ruled that the use of a foreign passport after renouncing one’s foreign citizenship is a positive and voluntary act of representation as to one’s nationality and citizenship, it does not divest one of the reacquired Filipino citizenship but recants the Oath of Renunciation required to qualify one to run for an elective position,” the high court said.
The high court said Arnado should have executed an affidavit of renunciation every election period simply to avoid disqualification bids.
http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/722992/kauswagan-mayor-loses-post-over-citizenship-issue
http://www.comelec.gov.ph/?r=References/RelatedLaws/ElectionLaws/OAV/RA9225
IMO, the high court should also rule whether a foundling is a natural born citizen of the country so the other foundlings would not be deemed stateless here in our country, and best of all, so that even a foundling can qualify to be president without any disqualification bid that will possibly hound him/her.
Edgar and anyone else who might have missed my post just after this blog came out, it focuses on mistaken and unconfirmed assumptions about the citizenships of Poe’s family. Before anyone starts declaring that they or Poe’s allegiance might be compromised because they are not Filipino citizens and are instead US nationals, and then go about demanding they should renounce their US citizenships. You are probably ignorant of the fact that except for the oldest, the chilren are not in fact US citizens because they were born in the Philippines. Its a bit difficult for these to renounce a citizenship they do not have, dont you think? Since we are trying to diminish your ignorance, let me explain why. US law states that children birth of a US parent, which Poe was until 2010, only have the option to elect US citizenship when they turn 18. Furthermore, US law prohibits minors from renouncing this option.
And unless you have proof, it is to date, an unverified assumption that GP’s husband Neil is still an American citizen and that he did not also renounce his US citizenship like his wife, considering that they seem to decide on the same decisions. Further, Neil was most likely born in the US of Filipino parents who both immigrated to the US. As such, he us a natural born Filipino citizen which he did not lose because he dud not have to become naturalized to acquire US citizenship. So what you are asking really is.a whole family of natural born Filipinos to renounce US citizenships they msy not have because you are concerned that the mother ‘s allegiance might be less to theitr Filipino citizenships but more to the US citizenships most of them do not.have or might once have. Please consider this info before making the same declarations and demands. Ignorance is curable but there may be little hope for stupidity.
I can feel Gerry. I would have been a Canadian myself by now if not for some technicality. My mother and sisters are all Canadians. I’m a Filipino, simply put, because I have nowhere to go. Put another way, if any country a degree better than the Philippines (Thailand for instance) would take me, I’m outta here. See? Who doesn’t want a better country? But wait. For some reason, both Gerry and I love the Philippines like a first love that won’t go away. And hey, I’m here, and I won’t take Binay sitting down, or for that matter a Poe who has nothing but her father’s name as shield and sword. If there were no credible candidates for the presidency, if (I have to use caps) WE DIDN’T NEED TO REJECT BINAY BY WAY OF DEFEATING HIM IN THE PRESIDENTIAL POLLS, then we can have Poe and other wannabees as candidates. But we have to sharpen our tools. Time is running out. Mar Roxas has no panache, no kilig (thrill, Joe) factor, but he will do as president because he isn’t corrupt. That’s a low standard, but we’re talking about the Philippines and corruption kills a poor country, and we have to survive as a nation. So for Mar to win, it has to be him versus Binay, no one else on the ring. Poe doesn’t get this, hence her entire judgment apparatus is in question—her citizenship, her temerity, her loose principles (INC), everything about her is in question because she seems totally unaware of the nation’s make-or-break fight against corruption. If she wins, her trustworthiness—already in tatters—will be tested and will be found wanting. Gerry, do we want a president like that?
Will,
While waiting for Gerry to respond, may I but in.
IMHO, (and this is mine alone, so there’s no need for others to be insulted or ridiculed, I respect Jolly’s and Gerry’s admiration for Poe, even caliphman’s) but I observe and conclude that Poe, because of her high opinion of herself (maybe due to her high ratings on surveys) doesn’t care if Binay wins, doesn’t care that the anti-Binay votes will be split between Mar and herself. Survey ratings should not be the sole basis in choosing the candidates for the presidency, experience, character, record and the company one keeps should also be looked into.
She is not into finding out about the truth re the various SBRSC hearings and investigative journalists as shown by her disinterest in those hearings and not saying anything about it publicly. She went with those of her peers who did not care that the country is being robbed left and right and cared only of not hurting the feelings of her Senator friends and compadres accused of plunder.
The only time she cared is when she is already considered presidential material after the surveys results were released, made a show of being among the first to quickly sign the committee report, and responded mildly to Binay when attacked by his spokesmen.
Re the 3 Senators detained at that time – nada.
She cared only for her ambition so she rejected PNOY’s overtures to be Mar’s VP candidate, she cares very much on how to increase her ratings by joining the nitpicking and bashing of this administration’s every single perceived errors for the media’s benefit, some of which demonstrated her lack of experience and weak comprehension of the bigger issues, but saying that Daang Matuwid is not exclusive to one group, meaning Mar and PNOY. How can she say that when all those around her (Estrada, Escudero’s Roberto Ongpin, etc) are all linked to plunder and and influence peddling?
I will wait for the courts’ decision on her citizenship and residency issues.
See thats an assumption that’s not right.
I honestly was for Poe earlier this year. But I felt as of 2 months ago that she is not ready to be president/
I am defending Poe’s right to run for president because I believe she meets the requirements stated by the Philippine constitution.
I came to her defense on this issue because the arguments made here all hinged on questioning her motives and the fact that she became an american citizen and consequently renounced Philippine citizenship.
I came to her defense because at the end of the day, the framers of the constitution set the requirements. The studied many scenarios. And to them, it is clear that:
If a natural born filipino loses his/her citizenship — -that fact is not fatal – – if one wanted to be president. Otherwise, the constitution would have said “No person can run for president or become president if he/she, at any point in time, had acquired the citizenship of another country”.
The framers could have easily written that in. By 1987, there were tons of filipinos who had already migrated to other countries and were citizens of those countries.
But it didn’t.
Instead, the framers said:
a. You must be natural born
b. You must be a Philippine citizen
c. YOu must have resided 10 years in the Philippines prior to assuming office
d. you are 40 years old.
*C is important. It seems to be the “remedy” for those who appear to have shown “disloyalty” by leaving the Philippines.
And so by continuously questioning her motives, etc. on this citizenship issue – – -you seem to be saying that there is no remedy at all. So what will it take for her to prove that she is indeed filipino again – – – -20 years, 30 years? Well, the consitution thinks 10 is enough. So we can’t demand more.
And if you think no amount of time will ever solve that – – that once a person took an oath to be loyal to another country that that can never erase the sin of disloyalty – – -then let me ask you – – – -where in the consitution say that that is a sin that in unforgivable and so unforgivable that it disqualifies one from ever running or assuming the presidency.
Nothing. Nada. There is nothing in the consitution that bans ex-filipinos from running or assuming the presidency. It simply requires that one have filipino citizenship (those who lost it can reacquire filipino citizenship) . . . . . .that one was natural born (yes, this is a status conferred upon birth – -either you have it or you don’t – – -grace poe has it) . . . . . .that one resides for 10 years (now she has to prove it) . . . .and she is 40 and up (okay – – she is definitely more than 40).
Mary,
I think you missed my comment to Mr Joe in a previous blog. In that comment I said that “Poe lost my support and respect” by supporting the INC. Like Gerry I was trying to defend her decision to become an American citizen. A fact which immediately tainted her as a traitor and unpatriotic. This is totally unacceptable to me because I have relatives abroad whose patriotism is unquestionable but had chosen to be a citizen of the country they are in.
Jolly
Thanks. I completely understand where you are coming from and my comment above did not touch on citizenship and residency issues, I said I will wait for the court to decide on it, my opinions re those 2 issues which I have posted before are simply a laywoman’s view.
Your relatives and Gerry himself, including his relatives who were citizens of another country have reason to be hurt or defensive by the seemingly judgmental perception being hurled at Poe, based on their interpretation of the constitution, which could be wrong or right notwithstanding the fact that they are educated people. All I can say to that is: those Filipinos in diaspora are not running for the top post of the land so those perception does not apply to them. Their loyalty and patriotism are not in question, Poe’s are, and I will reiterate – the court should have a final say to that. After that, the electorate will have their say thru the ballot box, hopefully on the basis of experience, character, and the people the candidate surround himself/herself with, and never because of survey ratings. For myself, I will decide based on my own analysis and reflections and not on somebody else’s, scientific method or not.. I don’t ride the band wagon ever since I started to vote.
*******
My comments are on record.
1. Re the citizenship of Poe’s husband: “5.1. Potentially, yes, because her husband is an American citizen (there has been no news to the contrary).”
2. Re the children: “1.2.2. …”The children are not involved in this issue; it is up to them to choose which country they belong to.”
*****
From Rappler (Sept 4) , TIMELINE: Grace Poe’s citizenship, residency
1991
July 27 – She got married to husband Neil Llamanzares in the Philippines. Her husband is a dual citizen of the US and the Philippines since birth.
2006
July 7 – As required by Republic Act Number 9225 or the “Citizenship Retention and Reacquisition Act of 2003,” Poe took her Oath of Allegiance to the Republic of the Philippines for her to re-acquire her natural born status. She also requested the same for her 3 children, which is allowed under the same law.
July 31 – The BI issued Identification Certificates (IC) for Poe and her kids. This means Poe and her 3 kids re-acquired their Philippine citizenship as per the law. At this point, they are now dual citizens of the US and the Philippines.
*******
Thanks, Cha.
I was only concerned about the citizenship of Grace’s husband. So he has dual citizenship, and not solely American citizenship. I stand corrected on this point.
If he has dual citizenship since birth that means he was born in the US (jus soli) with one Filipino parent (jus sanguinis), or so I assume.
Both the US and the Philippines allow for dual citizenship.
If Grace’s husband was purely a US citizen (as reported in the news and as the basis for Grace’s assumption of US citizenship), my concerns would still be valid and my opinion would be that he should (re)acquire Filipino citizenship… if she were aiming for the presidency.
With dual citizenship, the issue of divided loyalty is less sharp… or is it a non-issue? I am not sure. There is still the possibility of a conflict of interest, granted a slim one.
I would leave the matter up to husband and wife, unless there is wide public concern. Some would say it is neither here nor there. Others would say Caesar’s wife must be above (the possibility of) suspicion.
*****
I love it when a small set of facts has you talking in a circle. Hahahaha. For sure, if the husband campaigns, he could take the edge off this issue in about 10 minutes.
By the way, I was thoughtful about this. One of the twitter Photos I saw was also a family photo, and it was paled out like face whitening commercials are done over here, and I thought it misrepresented the family as WHITE Americans, which is not the case, as shown in my more natural photo. I almost dropped the article I was so miffed about the misrepresentation. But, hey . . . it’s on the lips and minds, we ought to solve it. For ourselves.
*******
Take the edge off means to reduce the issue.
Is it because he has a Filipino complexion? What if he talks like an American cowboy? 🙂
*****
He probably does if he lived his whole life in the US. I rather like the guy myself, he has not really imposed himself on anybody, just works and raises a family. He let’s Escudero whisper in his wife’s ear. Has a fine family from all appearances. The son is forthright and open, I understand, and is behind his mother all the way. One does not sense entitlement from this family as we do with the Binays. I might vote the husband before the wife if I knew him a little better.
Or had a vote. (chortle)
*******
Here’s a “What If” that would highlight the possible ethical dilemma of a foreign citizenship or a dual citizenship I have been hypothesizing about:
What if the spouse of a presidential candidate was a Chinese-Filipino citizen? Should there be concern?
*****
It does. That highlights the dangers of conflict of interest quite well. What it does suggest, as well, if the several people here are right, that Poe as an American is a non-issue for most, then that means the anti-American qualms are probably really limited to the tabloid press stirring up angst, and a few people intellectually steeped in America’s bad deeds of the past. The “anti-american in the Palace” may merely be a political play, or bit of desperation, by Roxas and Binay supporters. In truth, the Philippines is fondly attached to America. Rich people are not off buying homes in Shanghai for sure.
There is no reality but the one we concoct for the moment, truly. All is illusive or illusion.
“Ignorance is curable but there may be little hope for stupidity.”
I think there’s no need for such words here, let’s try to discuss things like mature people that we are. I remember you labeling yvonne something before you left raissa’s blog. All because you so wanted to defend Poe. Defend her if you must, but let’s just be calm about it.
Campaign season has yet to start and yet the discussion is heating up. whew!
Sorry, Joe… I think it’s not my place to remind those things. Just a knee jerk reaction.
I hereby appoint you Deputy Tanod, reporting to Karl. You are authorized to remind people that blog policy does not permit personal aspersions such as those used by Caliphman. I feel just as you do, but I get tired of nagging, and Caliphman and I have our own history over at Raissa’s.
Ok, thanks…Karl, I will report to you.
Take charge Mary. What a relief. I hereby knight you deputy
in my absence, I understand you took care of RHiro on your own. He is the original and pioneer calling eveybody ignorant and stupid in the blogosphere
“Binay is a natural-born citizen” – the question some are discussing now at Raissas is whether he is a natural-born thief or a naturalized one, by virtue of his rising in politics.
Roxas should just pound on that issue. she renounced her Philippine citizenship when it is not even needed to live in the states. now that she want to be a politician, she wants it back. how convenient. she made it a commodity. its understable for many kababayans but they don’t seek the highest office of the land.
its gross but you can bombard the TV with ads like this: isinuka mo na tapos kakainin mo ulit? just for your ambition
convice Robredo to be your Veep..its a good contrast to Poe
Really?
Then that means all filipinos who acquire the citizenship of another country should never do it. Because really, all filipinos simply need a resident visa or a work visa to live in another country.
Then secondly, if you are saying she shouldn’t have – – you are imposing a new requirement that even the framers didn’t deem fatal.
If the framers of the 1987 constitution felt that no filipino who has migrated and acquired the citizenship of another country and lost filipino citizenship is an unforgivable sin – -they should have said so. They never did. NOte that in 1987 – – the phenomenon of the Philippine diaspora was already widespread. So many filipinos had left beginning in 1965 and continued on.
So the framers knew back then that an ex-filipino might want to run for president – -that possibility was there.
How did they tackle that issue.
Well they said:
a. First you must have been natural born. So this means people like Joe can never become president of the Philippines.
b. Second, you must be a Philippine citizen. They never said that ex-citizens are banned. What they required is that one be a citizen – – – which means if one lost it and was natural born, all they have to do is reaquire it.
c. And to prevent this situation where on simply reacquires by convenience, then let’s impose the 10 year residency rule. If you think 10 years is not good enough – -well too bad. The framers felt 10 years is good enough. Otherwise, they would have said 15, or 20, or 30.
And if they felt no amount of time was good enough, they would have just said “Hey, sorry – – if you lost your philippine citizenship at any time – -then you have committed the ultimate sin and you can never ever run. That’s your punishment.”
Well they never said that, did they.
So really – – – – thanks for imposing to Grace Poe new requirements other than those imposed by the constitution.
And if you think I am a grace poe troll defending her here – – no. I actually feel she is not ready to be president after initially wanting her to be the administration candidate.
But honestly – – -I need to defend her right to run – -as well as defend her patriotism. You question her patriotism. All I’ll say is if that constitution never questioned it by actually allowing ex-filipinos to run (the consitution never banned ex-filiipnos to run as long as they meet the requirements it imposes upon assuming office).
You seem to have things mixed up.
Many voters will not support and vote for Grace because she renounced her Filipino citizenship at one time. It is their call, it does not have to be enshrined in the constitution.
Where did you see opposition to Grace’s filing for Presidency with her renunciation as the MAIN reason? It is being used as supplement to the criteria set by the Constitution.
In short, you and others of similar circumstance, can run for office as long as the qualifications are met and NOT hampered by being in the circumstance you were in.
But don’t take it against others not to SUPPORT and VOTE for you because of that.
You may argue against that thinking, and you could be right. But insisting that it is not in the constitution is where you got it wrong.
Support/Against for “qualification to run” and “to vote” are 2 different things.
When Grace decided to “support and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic; bear arms on behalf of the United States when required…” I know I will not vote for those kind of people. However, I support their right to file their candidacy as long as the requirements are met.
I agree so let us wait for the Supreme Court ruling on whether Poe has satisfied those requirements, that is the natural born citizen and residency issues.
I’m not aware if we have now ratified the UN resolution granting natural born citizenship for foundlings found here. She was granted a Filipino citizenship by her adoptive parents (the Poes) that gift of citizenship is not a natural born citizenship in nature, since a something had to be done for her to have that (adoption) and that’s not how the Constitution has defined natural born Filipino citizenship. Anyway she rejected/renounced that gift of citizenship when she took the oath of allegiance to the US when she allegedly rebelled against something we don’t know of, it surely is not for economic reason since she has ultra rich parents who can afford to send her to the the US to study there.
As an adult, she made the decision to opt for US citizenship even if she can stay there indefinitely then, having a worker’s visa and married to a US citizen. Convenience not loyalty was the reason she did that, in much the same way she renounced it later when she was offered to head a government agency by PNOY.
It is our call to weigh how she makes major decisions in her life, and we say that is for convenience and expediency. We observe how she panders to popular sentiments even if it not for the general good of the country, how she panders to any group (like INC and the people who wanted PNOY to resign because of the Mamasapano tragedy) all for popularity and expected votes. We see her lack of deep comprehension on complicated issues and depend on what people around her whisper to her ears. That to us, is a dangerous attitude, knowing the kind of people she associates now which are mostly remnants of the Marcos regime.
However the courts, (SET or SC) decide, we have made our decisions and it is our call, too, to help people to understand where we are coming from.
We want continuity of economic progress, of the fight against corruption, of honest governance.
Under the 1935 Constitution which applies to Poe, Carpio said Article 4, Section 1 (5) of the Constitution should apply.
Section 1 (5) considers “those who are naturalized in accordance with law” as citizens of the Philippines.
Carpio said international law provides that every human being has a right to acquire nationality and every State must avoid statelessness.
“So, a foundling has a right to acquire nationality,” Carpio said.
However, he pointed out that Poe, a foundling, cannot be natural born because it would violate the Constitution.
“So if there is a customary international law which says a foundling shall become a natural born citizen where a country it was found shall not apply to our country because it will be contrary to the Constitution,” Carpio said.
http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/723927/poe-is-naturalized-filipino-citizen-justice-carpio-tells-set
here is a piece from Ms Doyo of the Inquirer today:
“During the Marcos dictatorship, many Filipino patriots sought asylum abroad to escape persecution and, while there, continued the fight for freedom. Among them were President Noynoy Aquino, who was an exile along with his parents, Ninoy (assassinated upon his return in 1983 at the then Manila International Airport)) and Cory (who would become president of the Philippines and its revolutionary government in 1986), as well as Raul Manglapus, Jovito Salonga, Serge Osmeña, Heherson Alvarez, Charito Planas, Gaston Ortigas. They never renounced their Philippine citizenship; they came back as soon as democracy was restored. Some became elected officials. They never renounced the land of their birth”.
very well said.
I renounced my Philippine citizenship also. I love the Philippines but have no plan of reacquiring my citizenship just so I can run for President or Senator. I submit that we should treat allegiance/loyalty a serious matter and not treat it as though a commodity or for convenience only.
but then that’s just me, an ordinary person, without the ambition to become the next president
Nice to read your article, very helpful. On my end, I don’t believe it’s because of the “Americans in the Palace” that the people are wary about. It could be Spanish, Chinese, etc. But the fact that Sen. Poe change her citizenship for whatever reason makes us question her allegiance to our nation when she will be the head of state. Let’s say it’s more of like an ethical matter. Of course I do agree it’s her right to pick out the citizenship she wants. Nevertheless, the position she’s aspiring to have many rules and responsibilities with their corresponding contraptions. Most of the Filipino people will forever be skeptical. Why? Simply look at our country’s history and it will tell why.
Sen. Poe’s predicament is common for Filipino voters. There are a set of politicians here who does switch their citizenship when the situation is more convenient for them. And then this is how I viewed her. It’s a good thing that Sen. Poe challenges the administration how things are being managed. In fact, it’s actually quite refreshing. Yet, the big question is if the changes she proposed did not take effect what will happen to her? Is she going to break up and go to what’s convenient for her? Being a president of a certain country requires not just citizenship, but the integrity and dedication to its country as well.
by Susan Diokno Bilas
Grace is over her head with this. She will find out soon enough she is way out of this league. She is absolutely not prepared, even saying that no one has exclusive rights to Daang Matuwid. She took Aquino/Roxas platform and making it her own. If she wants the same thing for the Philippines, wouldn’t it make more sense if they all teamed up? Obviously, her decision has nothing to do with what is good for the country but what is good for Grace. Obviously, she thinks she is More Qualified than Roxas to carry out Aquino’s programs. Based on what? Your limited showbiz experience? The Filipinos would be fools to elect someone whose idea of campaigning is showing old films of her adoptive father.
And PNoy was so well prepared and ready then, with zero Senate or Congressional bills to show off (Lapid is better off) and heading his security agency at their Tarlac plantation as professional experience? People have poor memory… 😦
What do you expect when you belong to the very few minority? You should have known when Gloria has been bribing almost everyone so she can stay in power she stole in 2004, when all the “honorable” members are kowtowing to her every wishes in exchange for PDAF releases and other favors, what can you do when your resolutions and voice are drowned out by the vested interest keepers in the Senate and House of Representatives.
Lapid? He is one of them, you don’t know that?
Stupid politicians are not the problem, it’s the stupid people who keep electing them! As Binay would say it…”Pino-Poelitika lang tayo nyan.”
My observation from observing the local poor is that they are not stupid, but are caught in a need system and set of loyalties (and jealousies) that we are generally fortunate not to have to deal with.
i do not question her allegiance at all , its not about the philippines or the united states, she both renounce it, its very clear to me her allegiance is all to herself and her ambitions
That’s my reading of her top priority. All her platform is aimed at popularity it seems to me.
My prediction: Poe, will win! Sympathy vote, the usual. The Susan will be out there as the aggrieved widow. Poe Ii already was quoting Poe I on Day 1.
I heard this many times: “Emotion knows no logic.”
This explains too the bankability of teleserye-type scripts in Philippine TV and cinema.
Why did Pnoy win, have we forgotten?
Whom would you have preferred, over President Aquino, back in 2010?
By the way, I agree that emotion drives votes these days, but the voice of reason is getting louder.
Would have been Roxas but he was relegated to the back seat. And when he lost (VP) and Estrada was a close 2nd (Prez) lots of “what if’s” among my circle.
No-clue Poe would hopefully be a Prove-Me-Wrong Pnoy.
P.S. And I bet the Poe II enablers are defecting Binay / Roxas / Duterte balimbing wannabes.
#RealityCheck (#FilShame)
Napaka galing ng pag-kaka-sulat. Ang i-isang puna ko lang Po. SANA PO ISALIN MO ITO SA ATING SARILING WIKA; UPANG SA GAYON AY HIGIT NA MA-U-UNAWAAN NG NAKARARAMI PA SA MGA MASA. AT I-POST MULI. SALAMAT PO.
What was gained from the Mamasapano hearings? The TRUTH… the plain truth that even your fave President cannot reveal… Only Senator Poe had the balls then to unearth the same… Oh btw, where was your fave candidate (Mar) in all these ….in the dark….
I’d say half the truth was presented, then tailored to a political conclusion, rather than one that healed the nation. I wrote sex or seven blogs dealing with the hearings, and don’t see need to recast them here. You can search the blog on “mamasapano hearing” or “mamasapano report” and read up on it. I rather think you won’t do that, because you fall into what I consider those with a set mind and an agenda to push, and that’s fine. Enjoy yourself.
Tsk, tsk, Jeffrey, please try to read and listen to what the media is spouting, try to think for yourself and not swallow the slanted way they reported everything. Read again and analyze, there is still hope left in you. Try to see the big picture, not just the trees in the forest.
Poe has time and again pandered to what the media and what the people wanted to hear from her. Anything for popularity, never mind what is for ultimate good for the majority of the people.
Mar was in the dark, yes because it was a secret operation that has failed so many times because of leaks coming from unidentified officers in the police hierarchy. The less people know of the operation, the better the chance of success. Since it was not known who provided the leaks, it is better that Mar is kept out of the loop for he has to have the confidence of the whole general police force, being the DILG Sec. at that time.
There are secrets that our fave President cannot reveal, state secrets that all Presidents or heads of states cannot reveal, intel secrets that the media doesn’t care if international fight against terrorism will be affected just so they can scoop each other out.
Read and understand more for your children and grand children’s sake. Poe will bring back the Marcos era if she is elected judging by the people you see surrounding her now.
Think about that.
I don’t take JoeAm seriously because I feel that he will defend anything Yellow no matter what….
And you will disregard the truth even if it is facing you in your face if is has even the hint of yellow in it.
Okay, jeffrey, you’ve popped off with four short trollish comments. If you have a point to make, kindly do it, as this is a discussion blog, not a place for taking pot-shots at people. I’d frankly prefer that you just go off and play with your delusions, as you don’t really add much to the debate.
Hello Joe! The people have a lot to remember about Grace Poe even with just the INC rally. Just that and you could see a foreshadowing of her leadership…placate more the side which she gets the more benefits. And it’s dangerous…you will not be able to bank on what is right. Just imagine, talking about faith when it was not the issue. How did you describe her before, calculating? Crystal clear.
define filipino citizenship, and regardless of motives by critics or supporters, rules should be rules. no bending of rules — whether they favor poe or not. let the SC rule on the interpretation before she launches the campaign — in fairness to filipinos and to her.