Filipinos are the Indians of the Wild, Wild East

Resolution. Concluding scene from the Good, the Bad, and the Ugly. [Photo from film-grab.com]

By Joe Am

The American Indians lost the great ethnic war of the Wild West. They were out-gunned and poisoned with diseases and betrayed, when they tried to talk.

But they had their victories, ask Custer about that.

Settlers plodding across the nation in covered wagons circled their wagons for defense against attacking Indian bands. When they settled, they built forts of tall pine.

The Indians also had a few tactics that worked. One was to launch fire arrows into the dry, flammable wood of the wagons and forts.

Today, words are arrows. Mass and social media is the air through which they fly.

Bear with me as I describe the Philippine scene, emerging as today’s great ethnic war of the Wild East as China seeks to relegate Filipinos to the reservation.

The Philippine government is run by autocratic self-dealers, in the main. One or two decent people are scattered among the cabinet, but it is mostly stacked with loyalists, sycophants, and money-grubbing power brokers. It’s made to the President’s liking. The House, Senate, Ombudsman, and Supreme Court are overlaid with a thick paste of self-dealing as well. But there are a few decent and principled people there, too.

Surrounding government are the Yellows, mostly well-educated, well-traveled people who believe in the freedoms and responsibilities of democracy as the most wholesome and productive form of government. They are the Indians who circle round and round, with their eyes warily watching the government.

Behind the Yellows in the rocky hills are the DDS bandits, the scurrilous and nasty moral midgets, the guns for hire, the uglies in the Good, Bad, and Ugly, firing mercilessly at the Yellows below.

In the surrounding mountains and plains are the towns and ranches. Laboring there are the people of the earth, hard-working and struggling. They don’t care much for politics and bend like wheat to the most powerful breeze.

Is the picture vivid enough? Does it strike your fancy?

Well, the important point in this narrative is perhaps a surprising recognition that the government is surrounded by Yellows. It does not stand over them. Government is more like the bulls eye of the target than a strong army in the field. Indeed, it is starting to look weak with corruption, incompetence, failed accomplishments, and lagging economy.

Now those snipers in the rocks are a problem, yes. But sappers are working on identifying and taking them out, one at a time, and good for them. Facebook and Twitter . . . who are rather like the industrialists in far-away cities . . . don’t like them there either. The dirty rats are messing with their highly profitable economic harmonies.

The government is vulnerable to flaming arrows. That’s what I think, as an analyst, not a provocateur.

They may even be on the run, having committed some massive blunders recently: loyalty to the enemy China, abandonment of Marawi, beating on fishermen, farmers, contract workers, and honest businessmen, and doing nothing to stop the scourge of dengue.

They are grasping at straws, with spokesman Panelo sounding more lunatic with each nonsensical utterance. Department of Foreign Affairs Secretary Locsin is twisting slowly, slowly in the winds, winds that seem to blow every direction but up. Department of Defense Secretary Lorenzana looks like a guy with an eternal wedgie. Or severe gas.

Some, it seems (the economists, for example), are in a state of near-panic.

I’m guessing that there are decent people among the bad and ugly who will soon start to realize that this scene is getting downright ridiculous . . . and that safety is found behind the flaming arrows, not in front. They will start to think about outcomes. About trials. About jail. About family reputation.

About what they want their nation to be.

If the tide turns, it will be a stampede.

Just maybe. Maybe, in the chaos of battle, the Indians can win this one.

But they have to be smart, and determined, for sure. And they have to keep shooting those flaming word arrows.

 

Comments
104 Responses to “Filipinos are the Indians of the Wild, Wild East”
  1. LG says:

    On point.

    Should the first arrow aim at chaos inciter Larry Gadon who wants to have impeached SCJ Carpio?

    Good day to you in spite of it all.

  2. karlgarcia says:

    One thing the pilgrims gave to the Indians is syphilis.
    Those pilgrims from our Northwest is also giving us syphilis of another kind.

  3. karlgarcia says:

    Chuck Jugo is still borderline lecturing us to look at the value of Chinese.
    The chinese is a blessing more than a curse.
    Those Pogo workers speak to Mandarin speaking clients which we don’t have …….
    Even argued with a lawyer that even if it is illegal it is not always wrong.
    Etc.

    • Chuck Jugo causes me to scratch my head and roll my eyeballs.

    • kasambahay says:

      now, about value of the chinese that chuck jugo harbingers about, my own theory of relativity declares that the correlation between duterte’s rating and chinese value ay medyo apparent na po. the higher the rating, the more the chinese mainlanders proliferate in illegalities; the more scatter brain panelo becomes and the more lorenzana and esperon revert to primacy.

      85% rating, not exactly 100%, those mainlanders must be cheapskate! verballing the agreement cheaper than legaling the agreement. and what does the conduitive mm, (cannot remember his name but involved with something station siya) got to do with all this? ah, the love of money, better the the smell of napalm in the morning, lol!

      pass on the buck, mm did, people approve highly kuno of duterte; yeah, the chinese people did!

      • Juana Pilipinas says:

        Am I following this? So, SWS and Pulse Asia are using the Chinese mainlanders as their survey samples? LOL.

        Pardon me, I often find humor in the government’s absurdities to keep my sanity.

        • karlgarcia says:

          That is another purpose of the Chinese to pad the satisfaction surveys.
          On another note, the Manchurian candidate is no longer fiction.
          Ack, before we thought that Binay was the Manchurian candidate.

          • kasambahay says:

            the mainlander chinese have taken over the jobs that ought to be pinoy’s, pushed put pinoys from rental market and prime properties, possessed the shoal na and taken over our fishing grounds, and it would not be surprising but natural progression for the mainlanders to also populate prime surveys such as mm’s. duterte is their survival, host, best friend and patron that looks after their interests, gotta prop him up.

  4. NHerrera says:

    To me, the current blog is related to the previous blog on edgar — not in their temporal proximity but in this sense: how these people [the bad and ugly ones] will be remembered when they are gone.

    Doubtless when they die, eulogies will be made, eulogies likely to come through a pleading request for some kind words to be said about them, not in the spirit we wrote about edgar without being asked. [It seems rather blasphemous to even compare those eulogies with what we wrote about our friend edgar.]

    I repeat again with emphasis what Irineo wrote about edgar:

    Probably the only immortality we have is in how we inspire others around us, in mind and in heart. Through all those he has inspired, Edgar lives on.

    For how can we speak of the inspiration in mind and heart that we derive from the likes of Panelo, Pacquiao, Locsin, among others.

    Thank you, for writing these blog topics one after the other.

    • sonny says:

      NH, the tribal nature in our (Filipino) sociology has been consistently alluded to by the blog owner and the commentariat of TSH. The term tribal means Me, My group, My people right or wrong and thus strongly predisposes, and limits the capability of said group exclusively to the best abilities of its membership and severely deprives its capacities for change and development, favoring the limitations of its worst members. This robs the group of the opportunities for betterment that is available through openness, negotiation, and exploring other avenues of action and progress from other groups.

      • NHerrera says:

        Thanks for the note.

      • Sonny, in a recent and long Twitter exchange with MLQ3 and others, MLQ3 told me that 1986-2016 failed to change the basic parameters of Philippine society, so tweaking and reforming things finally was to no avail. Something about the rulers and ruled still thinking in terms of the village while others had overcome that mindset. I responded yes, even the remote parts of Europe have by now, Moldova, Georgia no, maybe Kosova but the rest yes.

        In the parochial mindset the Philippines has not yet overcome, most people can hardly see beyond the next kanto, hardly are capable of abstraction, literally prefer experience to proof-proof which is what Bato recently said, then wisdom that uses distilled experience out of generalization and abstraction is centuries away, maybe. PCSO, Dalian trains, Dengvaxia.. all experience where proof-proof was not believed. Kitam is what my Ilocana nanny told me when I had been stubborn and refused to listen and what she had warned me about. The Philippines is being ruled by people at the conceptual level of 8 year olds. Or pre-school. “What if I pricked the balloon with a pin and it popped? That would scare my sister, and she’d drop the vase she’s carrying!” c/o Sesame Street. At least Sally in that example thinks before acting. Nobody tells her kitam afterward.

        • sonny says:

          “MLQ3 told me that 1986-2016 failed to change the basic parameters of Philippine society, so tweaking and reforming things finally was to no avail.”

          To make this assessment on PH at this interval is an appropriate reality check. 30 years is good and valid to do this, IMO. The elapsed time is like looking at the earth from the vantage point of an orbiting satellite and seeing the undeniable curvature of the planet. The age of the president presumably allows him to make conclusions such as MLQ3 and you did make on the state of governance of the country. The conclusions so derived will differ depending on the tools used and the mental lenses/goals one had in mind.

        • Micha says:

          “MLQ3 told me that 1986-2016 failed to change the basic parameters of Philippine society, so tweaking and reforming things finally was to no avail.”

          Did he elaborate the reason for that failure?

    • karlgarcia says:

      NH,
      Are you based in Metro Manila.
      We will meet at Green Belt chapel for the 545 pm mass on Wednesday.
      This is for our friend and family member Edgar

  5. Gemino H. Abad says:

    Let’s keep shooting, demolish “Maybe,” Joe! THANKS!

  6. NHerrera says:

    ON THE FUN MLQIII HAD WATCHING THE DRILON-TOLENTIONO EXCHANGE

    I watched the YouTube video clip of that exchange about the so-called Duterte-Xi agreement on fishing at EEZ of the West Philippine Sea. I had fun too — really It was hysterically funny [MLQIII, the diplomat, methinks understated the effect on him]. Three things came to mind while I had my hilarious fun:

    – Tolentiono should have put his experience/ expertise (?) on traffic management on his first Senate Bout. Then he could have fenced reasonably well with the sharp legal mind of Drilon;
    – At the moment I cannot say which is the better senator, in so far as their utterances in the Senate Floor is concerned — Tolentiono, Bato, Pacquiao or Lapid;
    – We have to indulge Tolentiono: he somehow has to say “thank you” to his patron for his election at the Senate. He may still learn to study before he shoots his mouth and cross swords with the likes of Drilon.

    • NHerrera says:

      Oops:

      Tolentiono = Tolentino

      [I hate this automatic words the phone puts in place of the ones I typed!]

      • Sup says:

        strange. If you google there are many Tolentino’s but only 1 Tolentiono……
        i think google is getting tired of that corporal….. 🙂

        • NHerrera says:

          Surely, you must be kidding, sup.

          Just googled “Tolentiono” and I got this, among many [First Names]: Lorna, Robert, Chel, Leticia, Maria, Herminigilda, Narda, Jason.

          Fun day and Cheers to you. 🙂

        • Hahaha… I google the fuck out of Google, Sup.

          but honestly, 15 years ago you find more interesting things just Googling, now it’s all businesses. Example, rubber stamps (I collect ’em, ever since Indonesia, weirdly you can get any design made just off the street, and they carve it up right in front of you).

          Before when you Googled rubber stamps, you get blogs and interesting articles on it, now it’s all these wholesale type stores, same with custom flags. Google just ain’t what it used to.

        • Sup,

          that’s a great podcast, thanks for pointing it out, here’s part of it below (adding more context as transcript, but do listen to the full show it’s done very well):


          essentially, it’s about a group of friends that experienced something out of this world, and them keeping the faith even when it meant its just the few of them, and Elna Baker as a Mormon apostate felt similarly, thus the podcast.

          But it’s about faith, and the company you keep, and how that affects your faith.

    • kasambahay says:

      good on drilon! he knows how to shoot flaming arrow and hit tolentino.

  7. NHerrera says:

    MY TRANSLATION

    Sec Lorenzana: “Chinese Ambassador speaks with forked tongue.”

    • NHerrera says:

      The good Secretary must be distancing himself from the Chinese Quartet in the Administration. Sya nga nama: masamang maisama duon.

      • kasambahay says:

        methink po, the problem with lorenzana is that he speaks, spoke and was spoken to. and that’s about it.

        what stops him from forming his own quartet of like minded? he must be really in love with his job, adlibbing now and then, just so he can stay relevant.

        distancing himself, and yet, stayed within arms length and fist pumping all the while. that must be hard on his elbow joint, lol!

        if the smiling chinese ambassador, (is there a contest of who among the chinese can smile like monalisa? xi also smiles a lot like monalisa, lol!) speaks in forked tongue, likewise si lorenzana. I have not forgotten what lorenzana said about the recto 22, and how supportive of the rammers he appears.

        bringing into our awareness that the chinese ambassador is bad prism and multi faceted, what is else is new po? for lorenzana to be gargling what many already know, belated intel si lorenzana, lol! how terribly civil of him to let us know that he know what many already knew.

        like what lorenzana’s boss said, it’s all toilet paper.

        I have yet to see po and indeed hear lorenzan say to the chinese ambassador and straight to the ambassador’s face, that the ambassador speaks in forked tongue! instead of lorenzana telling the media what sort of tongue the chinese ambassador has.

        and in all honesty po and in my irreverence, I say lorenzana is with them, one of them and circulates with them. and can say only what he is allowed to say. nothing more, nothing less. and given a day or two, lorenzana will execute what many in the military do: about face!

  8. Nherrera, let us pray for our favorite official.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/SuperficialGZT/status/1156577423103811584

    All the late Edgar Lores will have to say to her is: “kitam!” which in Ilocano means “you see!”.

    • NHerrera says:

      Nagkasakit ba si Persida Acosta?

      Masamang ma-dapuan ng dengue ang matatanda — mas masahol pa yata sa mga bata.

      Awan ti dengue vaccine kasi.

      • kasambahay says:

        preparing herself kaya for the blitzkrieg that is to come? her grandstanding caused deaths to many; aba, due for retribution siya.

        mourning pa po ang families of the dengue dead. once mourning is over, all hell may well break loose. dengue deaths were foreseeable and preventable. and the families could take legal action en masse vs acosta. I hope the families will not settle for just tig-iisang kaban ng bigas. they’re in for a gold mine! take legal action sooner and before statutes of limitation kicks in.

        deaths attributable to a top official in the country and chr is just as quiet. I bet lawyers are now looking around, see who is 1st of jump.

        • chemrock says:

          But poor people, who will they get to represent them – the public attorney Acosta.

          • kasambahay says:

            chemrock, who will rep the poor people vs the almighty public attorney? methink po, considering the higher profile of the public attorney, outranking ordinary attorneys, and the way she went around the nation, huffing and puffing and discrediting the vaccine that could have saved lives and then, blocking the public’s access to said vaccine, it would have to be team of lawyers vs the public attorney.

            but who will rep the poor people? trust in the divine providence, god will provide. I believe
            there are lawyers out there who will take her on.

            food and drug admin has put the vaccine on prohibited list, thanks to her. she took away people’s choice to vaccinate or not. and many died.

        • “dengue deaths were foreseeable and preventable. and the families could take legal action en masse vs acosta.”

          I just read up on this Dengvaxia stuff and it reads very similarly to the Ebola vaccine scare in Africa right now, and measles vaccine here re Autism connection.

          But for there to be a crime, there has to be intent (or criminal negligence ), then I guess the Dengue vaccine as the instrument of said crime.

          to argue that not giving said vaccine, thus the patient ‘s death, seems to me a stretch, especially since the efficacy of the vaccine is the issue here.

          if the argument was that giving the vaccine was what in fact killed them, then sure a class action lawsuit against the French company that made lab rats out of Filipinos is reasonable, French companies have deep pockets,

          but to blame public heath officials for vaccinating children, then qualified immunity applies here, that knowing what they knew at the time they meant no harm, but good only.

          But I just don’t see a case for not giving vaccines out, if for some reason such a case will surface, then it becomes a wrongful death case (I doubt the crime will be that of mass murder),

          wrongful death, the remedy is blood money (for lack of a better word), and sadly that is calculated thru a person’s earning power (having died, that earning potential is gone, thus the remedy).

          from what I know, an adult’s life there is around P10,000 give or take; a child has to be P5,000 give or take.

          So , honestly, there’s no money to be had either way. The money is with the French company that makes the vaccine. But they are not liable either way here, unless there’s some fraud where they knew their vaccine was in fact dangerous.

          • For illustration, if a hiker gets bit by a rattlesnake, paramedics are called out, they come along with anti-venom, for some reason, criminal intent/negligence, they don’t administer said anti-venom, hiker dies.

            That’s murder. First or second degree, I dunno; but the point is the anti-venom is known already to work. So I guess if you can say the same for Dengvaxia, thus not administering it leads to death (thus murder), then that can be your case;

            but see, you’ll have to prove that Dengvaxia works 100% (or close to that) of the time, and has a track record. Hence the comparison to Ebola vaccine above, it’s new thus efficacy is still in question. And why there’ s no criminal case here, in my non-legal layman opinion. 😉

              • Correct, so this is more actuarial stuff than anything sinister really.

                There’s no fraud, like the Tuskegee experiment and other Nazi experiments on people.

                For the part of gov’t officials over there, there is no malice, for both ways, giving vaccines out, also not giving them out.

                It’s a statistics issue, with new unproven vaccine; the safest move here was to not give out the vaccine given the statistics below (from the article):

                “Not everyone infected with a dengue virus gets sick: three out of four who get bitten will have no symptoms. The rest may suffer one of three sets of symptoms: a fever that mimics many other viral illnesses; “dengue fever,” which is accompanied by headache, pain behind the eyes, aching joints and bones, and, in rare cases, internal bleeding; and severe disease encompassing dengue hemorrhagic fever and dengue shock syndrome. In severe cases, plasma seeps out of capillaries, liquid pools around organs, massive internal bleeding ensues, and the brain, kidneys and liver begin to fail. Although swift hospitalization and careful case management can and do save lives, more than 20,000 people die of dengue every year. Many are children.”

                but since PNoy and his administration wanted to save children he took a risk.

                These are all risks, not really prosecutable in court is my point, karl. Like I said, if there’s no fraud and/or malice on anybody’s part, everyone was just playing the numbers.

                This isn’t an Erin Brocovich case is all.

              • karlgarcia says:

                Your opinion about no malice is your opinion.
                The PAO started an anti vaxx chain reaction which exacerbated the pre-existing ignorance of the anti-vaxxers.
                You can not vulcan logic me into agreeing that this is a no harm, no foul thing. The demolition job going on is very obvious.

              • It is very clear that there was political agenda and in the process of emotionalizing the base against Aquino, parents got afraid about vaccines. The smallpox outbreak ensued, and now a resurgence of dengue, which was on the way DOWN during the dispensing of the vaccine. The purpose of the political campaign was not to scare parents away from vaccines, but that fear was long ago recognized as fall-out from the hysteria. It became malicious when it was obvious that people were running from vaccines but it was still loudly proclaimed that the dengue vaccine had caused deaths. True pathologists said no deaths were caused by the vaccine. The deaths were from pre-existing problems.

                It is malicious to claim there was no malice.

              • karlgarcia says:

                Thanks, and I agree.

              • “The purpose of the political campaign was not to scare parents away from vaccines, but that fear was long ago recognized as fall-out from the hysteria.”

                How do you even prosecute this type of reasoning in court, Joe???

                And what crime would it be??? It’s not fraud, not criminal negligence, IF you guys’ claim that there is in fact malice/intent then you’re looking at mass murder (which by definition does not fit here).

                So what crime are you guys talking about here???

                Aside from,

                1. fraud

                2. negligence

                3. mass murder

              • Well there is new case law now being prosecuted,

                4. loss of chance

                but essentially it is a type of wrongful death, a civil matter not criminal, and it boils back down to the decease’s earning power and potential at the time of death,

                again… we’re talking about P10,000 and P5,000 for the average Filipino.

                If there’s a …

                5.

                6.

                7.

                etc. etc. do share, but 1-3 and 4 is all you got, sorry.

              • karlgarcia says:

                What on earth are you talking about?

              • karlgarcia says:

                November 7, 2017 – Health Assistant Secretary Lyndon Lee Suy says that despite the controversies hounding the immunization program, it is not ethically right to abruptly stop the vaccination process without completing all 3 doses. “There will be more problems if you don’t complete the 3 doses,” he says.

              • kasambahay says:

                still ringing in my ears ang pahayag ni acosta na ang dengvax kuno is weapon of mass destruction!

              • karlgarcia says:

                basta bakuna, bad daw

              • karl,

                The question as posed by kasambahay‘s original comment above, and chemp’s which lawyer question, is can this Persida Acosta be held criminality liable for the deaths of these kids, no? That’s the question here.

                I’m saying w/out fraud; negligence; murder , what are they gonna try her for??? What is the crime???

                I’m pretty sure in criminal law you can’t try someone just for Ethics (if that were so all would go to jail) , like I said for a vaccine that’s new, wherein you can argue for or against it, there’s just nothing criminal here.

                That is why I’m asking, on what charge??? What will they try her for???

              • “There will be more problems if you don’t complete the 3 doses,” he says.

                Doesn’t that sound wrong to you??? So basically they ‘re saying youre better off not starting the doses , than if you did and not finish it.

              • karlgarcia says:

                kasambahay will answer that.
                Acosta is not worth arguing about.
                The question is
                What about those given one or two doses, are they at risk of dying of severe dengue because they were under dosed?
                Antibiotics must be completed, correct?
                Any under dose or overdose, not good.

              • I agree it has to be completed , karl.

                But the flipside is the doctors have to explain, properly explain, the pros and cons, ie. if you start it, you have to finish it.

                I’m more focused on the not starting it at all option here.

                A few years ago we had something similar here in the form of HPV vaccines, same i think 2 or 3 shots to complete; but somewhat different since your behaviour affects the likelihood of your getting the virus; dengue affects all.

                Well, the school districts were kinda shady about explaining the need for this particular vaccine, turns out it was for STDs, in and of itself no worries; but since public health pros and school administrators were requiring it,

                ie. mandatory, mandatory,

                why the lack of explanation on the front end of this??? well parents finally got whiff that the purpose of these vaccines was STDs, and all the Christian parents were up in arms, why inject a 9 or 10 year old with this??? why make this mandatory, it’s not like measles or flu vaccines, where its contagious to other kids,

                you have to be doing the nasty to actually get it, so why not make said vaccine into a choice later on, ie. after someone’s an adult.

                So then the whole actuarial arguments came out, public health issues, etc. then the scare mongering, of side effects and other stuff (this part’s like your dengvaxia over there), but in the end…

                my issue isn’t STDs, or side-effects, my issue is why didn’t the health care pros explain their side better as to alleviate all concerns early on, both political (STDs) and medical (side-effects).

                Many kids and their parents opted out of the 2nd and/or 3rd shots. making this example somewhat, somewhat similar to this completion issue of doses.

              • Your original issue was that no laws have been broken, but it has now shifted to the health care pros and why they didn’t explain their side better. These are worthy questions for you to pursue with the principals involved, none of whom contributes regularly in this discussion thread. This dancing around becomes frustrating to people who are interested in responding to your challenges to the best of their ability.

                The Philippines (govt) has filed a case against the drug maker for failing to adequately disclose the possible damaging effects of the drug. I personally think they will not collect because Sanofi Pasteur did not try to sneak anything past the government, and conveyed what they knew when they knew it. The drug was new with limited track record. Cases have also been filed against former President Aquino and his DOH people. I believe these cases are political finger-pointing, in the main, and I’d be surprised if any of them were won by govt.

                A good tort attorney in the US would have little difficulty taking all the people who have died from dengue after the drug was removed from the Philippines, combining their damages, and laying a heavy case on the government for negligence and malicious intent (or whatever other legal poundings can be done). He would cite the decline in incidence that occurred as the drug was being used (it was a very effective, quickly done program), and all the other nations now using the drug. He would point to PAO Chief Acosta’s posturing as an expert in medical affairs (the govt even referred to her as Dr. Acosta in one posting), her histrionics and death claims (there were none), and callous disregard for the well-being of Filipinos.

                Well, I’m neither a doctor nor an attorney, but I’ve witnessed the outlandish claims, and read the trends in dengue, and someone fucked up.

                As an aside, two attempts have been made to levy ‘murder’ charges against President Aquino. One on Mamasapano (dismissed by Ombudsman, I believe) and the dengue case (which is ludicrous). That shows the politics behind the effort, likely emanating from former President Arroyo, seeking vengeance for her own jail time. That is the malfeasance, when innocent Filipinos pay the price for political shenanigans.

                If you have lingering questions, please pursue them in a different forum. You may cite your own opinion, fine. Cite it. Support it with logic or references. But don’t challenge people here, none of whom is an expert, to provide the expert facts and read-outs you demand. Stop shifting the issue around and belaboring the point.

                Thank you.

              • This article was just brought to my attention. It addresses the question of legal liabilities for Acosta, et al.

                https://www.gmanetwork.com/news/news/nation/693992/graft-complaints-filed-vs-acosta-erfe-over-dengvaxia-scare/story/

              • “Your original issue was that no laws have been broken, but it has now shifted to the health care pros and why they didn’t explain their side better. “

                Laws was with kasambahay, Joe. Health care pros was in response to karl, who brought up the dosing issue.

                I’ll await kasambahay’s response, if none that’s okay too; If karl wishes to pursue vaccines in general, I have more to say re Christians over here, their penchant for home schooling, HPV vaccines, and their credulity towards science and the medical field in general, vaccines in particular— which I believe helped in the Dengvaxia hysteria that developed there. I can connect it to chemp’s anti-Darwin stance, which you can originate to the Bible belt over here.

                As for your tort attorney and class action case, I disagree (pipe dream). But will read up on that last link you’ve provided. Thanks!

              • *incredulity

                p.s.— Joe, like i’ve said here before I demand no answer, no retort, I simply respond to interesting comments, if folks feel like responding back fine, if not fine too, such is the nature of a forum, but please no one should feel pressured to respond to my questions. No pressure. But yes my questions are designed to test your opinions, which may be irritating, or enlightening. Feel free to do the same to me. 😉

              • My goal is to run a blog discussion forum that is earnest and honest and free of the gameplaying and tricks common in social media. Your devil’s advocacy position is fine if it is socratic or instructional and the discussion comes back to facts and honest exchange. As an enduring methodology, it is tiresome and unfair to readers who are not familiar with your methods. We’ve been down this path before. If you don’t share the goals for the blog, as others do, kindly take your arguments elsewhere.

              • For honesty, this is the first I’ve actually delve into this whole Dengvaxia-gate fiasco there, and i’m seeing similarities to what’s going on over here with vaccines in general, a lot of skepticism (mostly on the part of Evangelical Christians, born-agains, but also from parents with “special needs” children), Joe. So , this is actually getting more and more interesting for me.

                I’m reading up on the Ebola vaccine now to see if the hysterias come from one source.

                per the link you’ve shared above,

                “Public Attorney’s Office (PAO) chief Persida Acosta and PAO Forensic Laboratory Chief Dr. Erwin Erfe are facing criminal and administrative complaints for graft and misuse of their public office and of public funds in connection with the public anger and alleged hysteria over the anti-dengue vaccine Dengvaxia.

                In a 20-page complaint filed with the Office of the Ombudsman, Attorney Wilfredo Garrido Jr. alleged that Acosta and Erfe violated the Anti-Graft and Corrupt Practices Act; falsification of public documents; malversation of public funds; and illegal use of public funds or property.”

                That’s par for the course for over there, that’s the first ever i’ve seen the word “malversation“. but notice the charges is far from a class action ‘blame one person for a bunch of deaths’ case you’ve posited , its a public office charge.


                I’m curious if these are all the same or similar charges brought to Presidents after they serve their term over there; my point being these charges smell similar to impeachment charges, only two outcomes here,

                1. if Acosta has juice, she’ll slither away from said charges (or get house arrest).

                2. if Acosta has no juice, she’ll serve actual jail time, w/out karaoke. 😉

                ====================================

                as to this,

                “A good tort attorney in the US would have little difficulty taking all the people who have died from dengue after the drug was removed from the Philippines, combining their damages, and laying a heavy case on the government for negligence and malicious intent (or whatever other legal poundings can be done). He would cite the decline in incidence that occurred as the drug was being used (it was a very effective, quickly done program), and all the other nations now using the drug. He would point to PAO Chief Acosta’s posturing as an expert in medical affairs (the govt even referred to her as Dr. Acosta in one posting), her histrionics and death claims (there were none), and callous disregard for the well-being of Filipinos.”

                This is correlation vs. causation 101 , Joe. I’m no lawyer but I can already tell you this won’t fly in court, anywhere.

                Just as you can argue that PNoy meant well, one can also argue that Acosta too meant well— especially given the WHO and Sanofi ‘s outing of this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antibody-dependent_enhancement

                So, Acosta can claim that she had the well-being of Filipinos all along given the above, giving her qualified immunity (which I’m sure isn’t a Filipino concept, but we are talking about “a good tort attorney in the US”).

                The question is, what was Acosta’s actual motivations for blocking Dengvaxia?

                1. To sabotage PNoy’s program??? (small potatoes)

                2. To sabotage Sanofi??? (big potatoes)

                3. To sabotage vaccines in general, co-opt scientific norms and medical advancements???
                (more conspiracy theory stuff, but also more fun than third world politics and multinational pharmaceuticals)

                Number 3 is where I’m driving towards now. How’s that for honesty??? 😉 but it’s an interesting thread to pull, and all thanks to kasambahay.

              • kasambahay says:

                not in the army po ako and not giving any more intel to the corporal, lol! I dont answer to the corporal po. and gladly not giving him anymore amos too.

              • Lol! Good choice, kasambahay; regarding Amos here’s a good video (tangent but kinda related here, apropos): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGgWaPGpGz4

    • NHerrera says:

      Irineo, prayer, as in:

      Our Father … forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us.

    • karlgarcia says:

      Speaking for my self here, I did not like the joke.

      • The Edgar part is not a joke. I doubt that he would explain and enumerate to fools. He might be saying Kitam when it comes to the PCSO decision as well. Because those who prefer experience to proof-proof (c) Bato deserve to learn things the hard way. Or to repeat their mistakes for eternity and not notice.

        • karlgarcia says:

          The joke I am talking about was that parody article you linked.

          • karlgarcia says:

            Praying for the eternal repose mockingly is no different from Philip Salvador’s mamatay na kayo.

            • The difference being that Persida caused deaths by her scare against the vaccine.

              I personally hope for a giant mutant mosquito eating her, like in a 50s B-movie. Not nice but that’s it.

              • To answer Joe’s tweet here as I am on self-imposed Twitter break: that is called STEADFAST and FIRM in the Philippines and is admired over weak-ass sorry-sorry and korek-korek-mistake. If you know you know and once you decide you decide, Pilipino never like that and never retreat!

                https://mobile.twitter.com/societyofhonor/status/1156827467291586561

              • karlgarcia says:

                Okay, just venting. I hated that scare that reinforced the scare of the anti- vax.
                A deadly mix.
                Misinfo multiplied by ignorance

              • And of course Joe DDS man will not admit mistake so you will block many DDS in Twitter. Like Filipino if cock gets hard never go soft until finish. DDS real men not wimps. /sarcasm

              • karlgarcia says:

                About your breaks, We have been there and done that. I have found a way to know whom to block.
                What I do is Look fior trolls in that earlier post of Joe and block.l go to Raisss and hot Manila, I block those it doesn’t matter what you think posters .
                I even went to benign0s tweets to know whom to block.

                That is a start.

              • My breaks are not about trolls they are about information overload and digital detox. Clearing the brain of noise is good for clarity of thought.

                My father might say ha Western people are not resilient to noise, stress, pollution, hardship and all, Manila it is always loud but still we can concentrate. Yeah, maybe even the filter for nonsense is better developed in the Filipino brain. Fish have gills after all.

              • karlgarcia says:

                Like I said, we have been there and done that.

              • Ireneo, do you know of any Art & Design schools in the Philippines???

                Dance, Studio art, Performance art, Music, creative Writing, cartoon, theater , computer animation, interior/exterior design, Fashion costume design, Game design, etc. etc. Walt Disney i think perfected the concept , all other Art & Design schools are building on this format:

              • https://www.google.com/maps/@14.1604149,121.2163676,558m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en

                Okay, per Google there’s only one Arts (not Design) school in the Philippines & it’s a high school at the bottom of Mt. Makiling.

                there are no strictly Art/Design schools, but there are programs within Universities– ie. means to an end, not the end.

                https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philippine_High_School_for_the_Arts IMHO, opinion this looks like how arts schools were prior to Walt Disney re-conceptualizing them, there’s really no end, just art for the sake of art. there has to be a design component as Disney envisioned.

                I noticed the Philippine HS for the Arts has no Twitter presence, so too other arts programs in Universities. Do Filipinos not need nor appreciate art/design over there???

            • Joe re your tweet whether Filipinos want a nation of assholes, yeah ask Benign Zero and Ilda who consider nice people weak and assholes strong.

              Karpman triangle and all, former victims sometimes try to feel strong by being what their tormentors were. Filipinos have been too nice for centuries so VP Leni rubs some the wrong way, but strangely Nancy Be Nice (don’t pout) does not, wonder why.

    • here’s an interesting take… related to this discussion.

  9. Two death anniversaries today. MLQ 75 years ago. Cory 10 years ago.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/mlq3/status/1156749750160355329

    While MLQ3 commemorates his grandfather, Xiao Chua who is from the captured Chinese province of Tarlac commemorates Cory.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/Xiao_Chua/status/1156683130171875328

    What would Edgar ask the two, meeting them?

    • kasambahay says:

      kaming mga taga probinsya would say na earthbound pa po ang kaluluwa ni mang edgar lores. that only after 30 days of mourning will he be free of all earthly ties. by then, he would have visited all the places he wanted to visit, seen all the people he wanted to see at nagparamdam.

      what would he say to mlq and to cory on meeting them? methink no words will be spoken po, the dead surrendered their human voices the moment they passed the threshold. high fives and low fives, so happy to see you! all done in silence. rest in peace.

  10. NHerrera says:

    DUPLICITOUS CHINA AND DOING WHAT IS RIGHT.

    This report,

    CHINESE VESSELS SWARM PAG-ASA ISLAND
    PH fires off protest vs China,

    https://www.manilatimes.net/ph-fires-off-protest-vs-china/593061/

    brings these things to me: the consistent duplicity of China; PH doing what is the least expected of her.

    Again I reiterate what I wrote before: compared to the PH Administration’s Human Rights issues which bring out the worst reaction from the Administration, the Administration is choosing to react rationally on this Pag-asa Chinese vessels swarm . PH does this because it is choosing to act on something that does not harm the sensibilities of the President [despite the over-dramatized friendship/ love between the PH-China leaders.] This, considering:

    – the promised improvement of the lives of the masses remains just a promise,

    – the looming trade/ economic slowdown,

    – the build-build-build conundrum becoming instead a drag-drag-drag activity [one can almost do a rapping song on it],

    compared to Vietnam, the country whose fishermen had the kindness to give succor to our fishermen left to die by the fishermen-cum-militia from China, the country whose leader, Xi, our President professes to love.

  11. NHerrera says:

    Sourced from my reading of the Twitter Section of the Blog is this Heydarian article which I believe should be highlighted:

    China’s overreach provokes backlash across Southeast Asia

    https://asia.nikkei.com/Opinion/China-s-overreach-provokes-backlash-across-Southeast-Asia

    Excerpt:

    Across Asia, there is overwhelming anxiety over China’s recently hamfisted foreign policy, including maritime expansionism in adjacent waters and controversial investment deals driving smaller states into bankruptcy, and bid for hegemony. This partly explains a near-universal preference for American leadership. According to a Pew Research Center survey last year, more than seven out of ten respondents across Asia favored U.S. leadership over China’s.

    Far from an inevitable march toward Chinese hegemony, what we are instead witnessing is growing reassertion of autonomy and collective dignity among Beijing’s near neighbors. The Hong Kong protests are only the most dramatic manifestation of the widening anti-China backlash.

  12. NHerrera says:

    Some of the noteworthy elements:

    – the backlash on things Chinese;
    – The dengue vaccine and “Doctor” Acosta.

    Is this a gathering storm or just a storm in a teacup?

    [gathering storm = non-trivial trouble that is coming; storm in a teacup = great outrage about a trivial matter. ]

    Let us just hope the economy does not take a big quantum dive — or Tolentino does not make another Senate Speech.

    • sonny says:

      NH, non-trivial indeed: ocean temperature up 1 deg C, two Fiji islands being swallowed slowly but surely and village-size populations have been permanently relocated by UN.

  13. NHerrera says:

    QUOTABLE QUOTE

    Solita Monsod:

    The sycophancy of our Congress, with respect to the President, is no match for the President’s sycophancy with respect to China.

  14. NHerrera says:

    A PAUSE THAT REFRESHES

    With the insanity of the Officialdom, with all the rightful criticisms, one word comes to mind: impervious. I think I will take a breather, Joe. But will take a peek at what is happening here now and then.

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