There’s no such thing as “crony capitalism”; it’s “crony corruption”
Crony capitalists [Photo source: The Economist]
By Joe America
The term “crony capitalism” pastes an unfortunate, calming label, on a very bad economic situation. A crony is a powerful person who has an advantage by being known to other cronies. They collect as a gang and pass favors and advantages to one another, thereby locking out competent people not having such advantages, power, or wealth.
A correct term for the system would be “crony corruption” or “crony corrosion” because the whole process is unethical and unproductive. It takes “competition” out of the economic framework, and fair dealing upon which economic success depends.
The subject arises because of the death of Marcos crony Danding Cojuangco. And because of our current awareness that Dennis Uy is the crony favored by the Chinese contingent in the Palace, which essentially is President Duterte, Senator/Aide Bong Go, and, out of Beijing, economic adviser Michael Yang. Dennis Uy is building a Chinese business empire in New Clark City. This is no “Chinatown”, it’s a “Chinaregion”.
We end up with China in control of the National Grid, a third telco, a whole lot of real estate, and other business enterprises. Through her crony Filipinos whose patriotic verve appears to be for China, and not the Philippines.
It’s a whole new set of “collaborators”, another word that requires attention, as it did during World War II when there was argument about the Filipinos who served the Japanese and ran the civilian government under occupation. But China occupies no land today, in a military way. There is no threat that China will slaughter Filipinos if Bong Go refuses to back pogos, crony favorites (the frigate escapade), and the flow of presumably illicit (laundered) money from China into the Philippines.
So if there are advantages to the State from today’s collaborators, it is hard to sort out what they might be. Other than self-enrichment for the cronies.
Therein we see the corrupt or corrosive effect of favoritism as the ethical foundation for economic activities. They don’t benefit the sovereign well-being of the nation, or the taxpayers who fund the State’s “crony activities”. They benefit the favoreds. The cronies.
The Society of Honor by Joe America 
The Philippine comfort zone of old always was country club management and cronyism, it just happened that the old elite had to shape up when the winds of neoliberalism shook up things. There are huge differences between President Roxas who gave the USA parity rights in exchange for rebuilding money (for the country) and preferential sugar tarrifs (for his group) and his grandson Mar Roxas who competitively helped BPOs set foot in the Philippines, leading I think to a new breed of managers in Makati and elsewhere. The group around Duterte wants what the old school oligarchs had until the 1960s, think Harry Stonehill instead of Michael Yang, or what Marcos cronies had in the 1970s. One may criticize neoliberalism but it is indeed leaner and meaner than the old school the Philippines had – its inequities are another matter of course.
The movement towards more transparency got started in the 1990s and changed the way global capitalism works. Not perfectly of course, but modern investors prefer transparency and rule of law to bribing and fixing stuff like the norm in the 1970s. The Philippines is losing the new crowd.
This is a economic layman’s view of course, subject to revision by the more expert in this blog.
Thanks for the historical framing. Risk management is big with today’s investors and nothing smell more like high risk than demanded commissions.
konting offshoot lang po ito: There is no threat that China will slaughter Filipinos, writes joeam. not yet sagot ko po. already, china slaughtered 20 indian soldiers. we could well be next if we so as stand up to china, and push back. even protesting hongkongers vs china’s security law got the baton treatment at binugbog.
tayo, go farther out to our sea sa pagasa, and china greets us all with welcome to china. even lorenzana, anyo and national security chief esperon got the greetings, dining with the frenemy.
few yrs na in existence yang chinese greetings and still the proposed communication tower natin that will greet those pumapalaot with welcome to philippines ay proposal pa rin, pa rin, pa rin.
Well, yes, China is dangerous. But the Mutual Defense Treaty with the US makes that unlikely. During WWII, the collaborators were on their own, as the US had been kicked out. They had extenuating circumstances that made what they did necessary. That ‘necessity’ is not present today. Leaders choose to collaborate not because they have to, but because they want to.
escalating and not backing down china is, and collaborating with china serves only to make china more aggressive.
remember the long range missiles china installed sa west phil sea, na sabi po in lorenzana na hindi dapat natin ikabahala dahil the missiles are not pointing at us!
wonky jungle drums said china is soon to deploy ADIZ, air defence ID zone, of the disputed sea making china its sovereign owner. ships at sea and aircraft within the zone would soon be challenged, china has long range missiles with range of 160 nautical miles for back up.
west phil sea is ideal for all out war, whereas the terrain of the border between china and india is not. too mountainous, valleys too narrow, too many trees and the tracks are best suited for carts and sure footed mountain goats, lol!
@kasambahay
” china slaughtered 20 indian soldiers”,
Modi: “no one has crossed the border into India and none of our military outposts were taken.” This is a direct quote from his speech on June 20th.
The Indian parliament opposite party then asked: “If the Chinese didn’t cross the border, why do we lost 20 of our soldiers?”
Yes, Prime Minister Modi, can you answer that question? If the Chinese didn’t cross the border, does that mean that 20 Indian soldiers died because they crossed into China? These are the only two possibilities, right?
If someone comes uninvited at night in my home he will be dead. Make sense, isn’t?
Facts are true even if you don’t like it.
For the benefit of regular readers/contributors, may we know your nationality, location, and what brings you to a blog about the Philippines? Thank you.
@Franz,
PM Modi sounded like PDurte if the quote is acurate, but in newer reports Modi is claiming to be musquoted.
I will look for that article.
*misquoted
Modi’s office on Saturday issued a statement seeking to clarify the “mischievous interpretation” given to his remarks.
“Prime Minister was clear that India would respond firmly to any attempts to transgress the Line of Actual Control. In fact, he specifically emphasized that in contrast to the past neglect of such challenges, Indian forces now decisively counter any violations of LAC,” the statement reads. “Violence in Galwan on 15 June arose because Chinese side was seeking to erect structures just across the LAC and refused to desist from such actions.”
@karlgarcia, it’s very clear that the Indians don’t know what they are saying. Who at night go looking at some structures (done by construction workers) and encounters suddenly a whole Chinese army. Use a drone in morning time. China doesn’t release any details about their causalities, this would embarrass India even more. China just want to give PM Modi face. What is so funny, few days later the Indians had an issue with Pakistan. Looks like they wanted to put all attentions away from their failure with China. Also Bhutan and Nepal are knocking at their door but being small India can suppress them.
aba, karlg, may isa rito hindi alam kung ano ang ibig sabihin ng guards on duty beynte kuatro oras. may bantay sa araw at gabi, yong chekwa kasi mahilig magnakaw ng teritoryo,e, lol!
Fransz
If you say so.
By the way,
You have not answered the questions of the blog owner/ editor/ host.
Kindly answer them so we would not assume anything.
Thank you.
Parity meant full access to Philippine natural resources for America. This was reviewed and renegotiated to get better terms for the Philippines by Magsaysay, whereas Garcia was I think the one who introduced the 60% local ownership clause. Marcos let parity treaties run out, dividing the pie among his cronies, who happily logged and mined their way through places like Samar, backed by military and police very often. 1995 was the Philippine mining act which might have paved the way for many an island to be strip mined today. A Ramos era law which seems to have been fully used in Arroyo times. How many local profiteers benefited from that, and how little was it taxed as it could have funded a lot of stuff?
BPO was also little taxed but at least the Filipino middle class benefitted, spent money fueling the economy. BPO used PEZA, the post-Marcos mutation of EPZA. The Philippines is a nation of weird acronyms. Just some more unsorted economic layman’s thoughts.
Acronyms. PCSO was encouraging casino money long before POGOs. Easy money again.
yahoooooo! love, love, love easy money. and doh has it good. all that billions of medical expenses supposedly unaudited and unchecked, duque not only doh sec but also chair of philhealth, the medical shaman lives in two worlds, just like his boss got offices in both dabaw and malakanyang, straddling two worlds sila. no wonder they both click.
fellow medical croony ni duque na si vergeire tumalon kaagad and defended boss with bottomless pocket. very sad kuno ang mga health workers that their much loved and respected duque is to be investigated by ombudsman.
ako rin very sad. had those health workers ensured their boss is honest, there would have been no investigation. still, it’s not too late for duque and his medical croonies. instead of being sad, they should be happy that their boss have chance to clear his name. to be heard by the whole nation, his story aired, how far or near is he from the beaten track.
this investigation by the ombudsman is not calamity for duque but chance for him to shine and show how blameless he truly is, how duty bound and how true he stayed to the medical oath that gave him certification.
From cronies to kingmakers.
Danding was the King maker.Who did he make president? Erap.
He got back San Miguel because of that, even if Erap’s reign was only short.
In 1992 the Marcos crony lost to Ramos( and Miriam) because Imelda also ran.
Without Imelda, he could have been president, oh boy, good thing he did not stop her ftom running by making a deal
Will Dennis Uy be a kingmaker or queen maker? Please no.
uhm, king danding’s greatest disappointment must have been the failure of his manboy with good muscle control to become greatest vice president of all times, lol! halos lahat na contortions nagawa yata, the money spent on electioneering 2016 humongous and still, voters talaga ay may sense of humor: brought manboy so close to winning and then, mothballed him.
imee’s marcos marcos sunk faster than bismarch, short lived too. manboy left clinging to his coconut ‘rock’, victory denied.
He was a rock in his life.
Was the rock tied to him that made him sink faster than the Bismarck?(Lots of lives and money wasted in that aircraft carrier).
Three US aircraft carriers are now on or towards South China sea not in response to any events per one report and escalating war if words per Forbes.
Escalating war of words that was also what happened in the China-Knfia border until it turned into an arm to arm combat with no arms(ammo).
China kept their casualties secret , I sm sure there are Chinese smong the fallen(literally).
*China-India border
the terrain of the border between china and india is best suited for guerilla warfare.
Agreed, but
China alteady claimed the valley.
If they can fo that to a fellow nuclear powered neighbor, we are sitting ducks eithoit the MDT.
Good thing Roque is not accurate (intentionally?)when he said that WPS is not part of the Pacific making MDT questionable.
We need VFA and EDCA back.
History is important so as not to repeat past mistakes, not to dwell on the mistakes.
all that weapons in china and india’s arsenal and both ended up brawling with sticks and stones and clubs with nails. still, both sides refrained from using catapults and boiling oil, and setting the enemy on fire. methink their clothes are not flame retardant and will catch fire easily. they’d be burned crisp.
military issue knives not used, good for close combat yang knives, knuckle brass too. maybe dont want to lose those knives, baka kagalitan ni commander. their kit kasi is already expensive and replenishing lost gadgets might be at soldier’s own expense.
if the border fight was one of those isolated incidents one too many, both sides must be smarting by now.
we lose territory, china been grabbing. we lose edca as well, 2x the loser we are.
chinese collaborators in our populace may think they have good lives, their holdings are booming. kaso, there will come a time when mainlanders: chinese communist bureaucrats will confiscate collaborators’ holdings, for the state.
Gulp! What a nightmare if assets of collabirators will be sequestered by China.
Much worse thsn my hypothetical of WB-IMF confiscating assets.
Going back to EDCA on a related note we kmow that Duterte halted his termination of the VFA
Methinks because he can’t just shoo away the US fleet once the tension escalates.
If India and China will have a trade war,
Bye bye cheap medicine.
For now it is just protest to boycottt China.
@karlgarcia
Last week while the Youtube videos were flooding the world about Indians tossing Chinese TVs from the balcony, a couple new Chinese cell phone models went on sale in Mumbai – sold out in minutes. No joke. Check it yourselves.
Wow!
Sold out!
I’ll take your word for it.
But of course, I checked it.
https://m.economictimes.com/tech/hardware/chinese-phones-continue-to-ring-at-full-volume/articleshow/76435951.cms
trade war, if only the chinese listen to xi! chinese daigus in oz (australia) continue to send baby milk formulas to china. what sells for $20 in oz, sells $80 in china. oz baby milk formulas continue to be in high demand in china, the formulas being wholesome and not adulterated.
Look at the related stories after the article
on how China is adjusting their Marketing Strategy inclufing rebranding those manufactured in India.
china must be feeling unloved these days. got territorial conflict with south east asian countries namely vietnam, indonesisa, phillipines, japan, etc. then there is trouble in hongkong and taiwan is playing truant. as well, china is having trade war with USA, australia, india, and waging cyber attacks on both USA and australia. then the virus flattens world economy and people are dying still.
When I read the post I am sharing, I was reminded of Fransz.
Here it goes.
Trump, Putin and Xi were arguing on Who’s in charge of the world?… US, Russia or China?
Without any conclusion, they turned to Narendra Modi (India prime) and asked him Who’s in charge of the world?…
Modi’s replied ‘All I know is’:-
1. Google CEO is an Indian
2. Microsoft CEO is an Indian
3. Citigroup CEO was an Indian
4. SoftBank Vision Fund CEO is an Indian!!!!
5. Adobe CEO is an Indian
6. NetApp CEO is an Indian
7. PepsiCo CEO was an Indian
8. Nokia CEO is an Indian
9. MasterCard CEO is an Indian
10. DBS CEO is an Indian
11. Cognizant CEO was an Indian
12. Novartis CEO is an Indian
13. Conduent CEO was an Indian
14. Diageo CEO is an Indian
15. SanDisk CEO was an Indian
16. Motorola CEO was an Indian
17. Harman CEO is an Indian
18. Micron CEO is an Indian
19. Palo Alto Networks CEO is an Indian
20. Reckitt Benckiser CEO is an Indian
21. Now IBM CEO is also an Indian origin guy
22. Britain’s Chancellor is an Indian
23. Britain’s Home Secretary is an Indian
24. Ireland’s Prime minister is an Indian.
Have a great day!
My undergraduate degree was in mathematics. My most advanced course was Tensor Analysis with Applications to Mechanics of Continua. I was there with 8 Indian students. The professor gave me a C because I showed up every day. He knew I could not think at that level. The Indians got the A’s. Their brains work better than ours.
Was the professor Indian?
Haha, no, a skinny fairly young American, probably of European heritage.
Haha
🙂
Dont forget urban plumbing also started in the Indus valley. They got us coming and going.
Uy is building a palace based on a foundation made of loose sand. That is, he already spread himself too thin.
Funny you mentioned sand that is the main thing the Chinese use In the reclamation of Scarborough.
Perhaps Uy has already spread himself too thin.
On top of a weak foundation.
Maybe he is like a house of cards, one touch then all falls down.
The scenario kasambahay mentioned where the assets of the collaborators will be confuicated by China might really happen because Uy has been piling up on debt. If he calls that leverage then he is trying to move a mountain using a spoon.
it is the good old boy network. if one belongs to the gang, one benefits. now there is a group ganged with USA and another group ganged with Tsina. i have 2 hands the left and the right. who are the leftist and who are the rightist. those whom are pro ams, are they the rightist. and those who are the pro chins, are they the leftist. how about the pro fils, they may be the patriots (centrist, it is the center limb that gives happenis) but on their own they can not stand, maybe they can if no korakots…they need to be allied. now with whom. just heard that pinas is negotiating to get attack helos from various sources usa, turkey, sokor who are allied to usa. also pinas got some ships from sokor a badly needed sea vessel to patrol ps. but without the help of other powers like usa, japan, australia, india and others, the pinas big ship may just be pushed around by the bully. and pinas is not ending vfa yet and subic is going to be available for us ships again on a more long term basis… sana. change your dancing partners, the dance caller shouted.
Now the bully bullied the peace lover india at indian galwan valley and the bully got retaliated. and there were casualties on both sides…action on hand to hand combat, about equal casualties per indian news and other sources but no comfirmation from china side. if the rightist nations allied together to curtail the leftist dragon tail, perhaps the bully will mellow yellow. tibet and taiwan needs to be recognized as independent countries, and perhaps a dominion of hongkong and dominion of macao be establised too, and there is also the uyghur land and mongolia which were annexed by the bully. if these lands/culture are separated from the claws of the dragon maybe the dragon will be tamed. diba chinships are famous for ramming small boats, bakit kaya di punuin ng mga mangingisda ng dinamita ang isang bangka at remotely control patakbuhin habang sila ay nangingisda at pag nagbully si bully itong loaded na bangka ang iparam para pag nabundol sasabog. may ibedensya na di accidente ang pagkabundol kasi may damage din ang ngbundol. kung walang bubundol walang sasabog…passive defense. mag iisip isipn siguro ang gustong bumundol. ay juan kanino kang krony.
today’s existing croonies: legal croonies, political croonies, medical croonies, croony croonies are going to be gifted with terror bill, ping lacson is strong proponent. terror bill will ensure the smooth and seamless breathing space of and for current croonies. air grievances and it’s warrantless arrest, maybe on top of yet another extended warrantless arrest.
aha, methink ping lacson is eyeing dilg chair, his prize for making the lives of croonies heavenly. though the man is wishing for the vice presidency; pass the terror bill and ping lacson is halfway there.
Yes. Crony of Cronies Inc.
***
Merriam Webster
crony = a close friend especially one of long standing
***
To go by that definition we are not alone. But in politics and corruption we may assuredly not be in the bottom of an international list.
Ah, DILG. Yes, he’d love that position.
He was also rumored for the DILG during the time of DILG Sec Jesse Robredo.
Neph, bakit ganun? Back to internecine assassination like the times of Aguinaldo & KKK. Siempre mas grabe ngayon with the internet & social media.
Parang pierde gana.
He who wins loses.
Indeed it is more vicious recently.
Let that not be an excuse for anti- terror bill.
The trolls are foving people to file charges like libel .
Mali
He who loses wins
foving- provoking
Btw uncle Sonny.
Irineo tweeted about your trans-pacific cruise
How do I see Irineo’s tweet?
Many thanks, Neph & Irineo! Feels good to have this “data” remembered. 🙂
Welcome.
Irineo astutely observed then: two Ilocanos migrating, the late edgar and I crossed paths in that ship SS Pres Wilson, edgar on his way to Paoay and me going away from Paoay. And you said something so very nice about us. 🙂
Joe was very generous in his attention to that comment. I forgot to thank him then. So, thanks a heap, Joe. 🙂
Ha! Always a delight, for sure. 🙂
Joe, that particular blogarticle you wrote was a cream of an article. It evoked a slew of productive reactions from many sides of the thinking caps of your readership, in my honest opinion. It was framed as a dream of what the Philippine potential can arrive at. It is worth revisiting by anybody desiring a sane specific view as a Filipinophile:
https://joeam.com/2018/05/16/the-new-visayas-playground-of-the-pacific/
Thanks, sonny. It could be done with a business productivity mindset. But with Gwen Garcia in Cebu, I doubt it would happen. It’s a bunch of bickering tribes with no dreams to work from.
liked the post. but where’s his air purifier? lol.
I almost forgot of one more Marcos crony: Lucio Tan.
For two years Duterte had been cursing him then suddenly he said sorry and said he will shut up on his tax liabilities.
Here’s another scandal involving banks over there and money going missing, or in this case… never there? LOL!
http://www.asianage.com/business/companies/220620/whats-the-wirecard-scandal-heres-five-things-to-know.html
Who is behind the missing cash?
German news weekly Der Spiegel named Mark Tolentino, a lawyer working in the Philippines, as the trustee responsible for the missing cash.
Based in Philippine financial centre Makati City, his website had vanished by Monday, although a Facebook page with public legal Q+A video sessions remained online.
Meanwhile one of the country’s largest banks—BPI—where some of the missing money was supposedly deposited—confirmed to AFP that an employee was on “preventive suspension”.
Media had reported that an assistant manager at BPI signed a forged document relating to the supposed deposits at the bank.
…
Scandal-hit payments firm Wirecard has said the €1.9bn (£1.7bn) missing from its accounts simply may not exist.
Wirecard’s chief executive quit on Friday as the search for the missing cash hit a dead end in the Philippines.
On Sunday the central bank of Philippines said none of the money appears to have entered the country’s financial system.
The German company also said it was withdrawing its financial results for 2019 and the first quarter of 2020.
“The Management Board of Wirecard assesses on the basis of further examination that there is a prevailing likelihood that the bank trust account balances in the amount of 1.9 billion EUR do not exist,” the company said in a statement on Monday.
The missing money accounts for around a quarter of its total balance sheet.
The company said it was continuing to discuss a financial lifeline with banks, including a current arrangement that is due to expire at the end of this month.
It said it was also considering several potential plans to save the company, including cost cuts, the restructuring of its operations, and selling or shutting parts of the business.
The scandal emerged after a series of articles in the Financial Times last year focusing on alleged accounting irregularities in Wirecard’s Asian operations.
The missing money was supposed to be held in accounts at two Asian banks and had been set aside for “risk management”, the company said.
The exit of Wirecard’s chief executive Markus Braun on Friday came after auditor EY refused to sign off its 2019 accounts over the missing funds.
Wirecard joined Germany’s blue-chip Dax 30 share index two years ago. At the time, it was valued at €24bn, but its shares have crashed in recent days giving it a stock market valuation of less than €3bn.
If it did not exist then why was wirecard’s CEO arrested?
https://www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/articles/2020-06-23/wirecard-s-former-ceo-braun-arrested-in-accounting-scandal?__twitter_impression=true
almost same thing happened few years ago and philippines was also involved: the bank heist at christmas season. while everybody was celebrating, cyber crooks struck and wired funds from USA to philippines and then on to sri lanka, then the money just evaporated. it was planned well, during the christmas holiday banks are closed and no one was supposedly looking. it was thought inside job dahil, computers done sleep and dont really have holidays, and would have alerted authorities of breaches. there would have been silent warning, and someone let the warning go.
the money this time with wirecard is much bigger.
shame of being exposed and caught flat footed? wirecard administrators would have to say the billions of money did not exist! sorry.
👍
Bangladesh instead of Sri Lanka.
https://joeam.com/2016/03/18/the-great-bangladesh-central-bank-heist/
The story is developing. Here’s today’s report:
https://www.gmanetwork.com/news/news/nation/743781/mark-tolentino-filipino-lawyer-tagged-in-wirecard-controversy-denies-irregularities/story/
Tucked away in that report is this line that’s interesting:
“Tolentino was a former assistant secretary of the Department of Transportation. He was sacked by President Rodrigo Duterte for allegedly having dealings with the chief executive’s sister. “
Yes, and from that I can tell you read the entire article, because it was at the end.
Today, Tolentino is claiming someone stole his identity and masqueraded as him. It appears he was set up to receive 2 billion, but he knew nothing about it, other than he was in process of becoming a trustee.
https://www.rappler.com/business/264644-wirecard-trustee-mark-tolentino-says-victim-frame-up-identity-theft
Also the German version, which reports that the person in question is in the country: https://www.sueddeutsche.de/wirtschaft/wirecard-markus-braun-ermittlungen-1.4945168
Thanks.
Markus Braun turned himself in but his colleague Jan Marsalek is suspected to be here.
So Jan Marsalek was the guy Tolentino never met. Maybe Marsalek was covering his face during their zoom meeting same with Braun.
Jan Marsslek has this ability not to be seen in CCTVs, but appear in flight manifests of non-existent flights and immigration records.
haha, makes me think this jan marsalek guy is tolentino hisself.
Hehe
He was spotted on Cebu last June 23 then left for China.
UPDATE OF US DAILY COV CASES
Since the US data are available to me without much googling, I am presenting an update on it with my look at the development from an angle that washes out most of the daily ups and downs of the daily cases. The US case also represents with, its huge case numbers, a good statistical base. It mirrors qualitatively what is happening worldwide and other countries.
The chart below is the focus of this comment. Immediately above the chart are notations on the horizontal and vertical axis numbers.
The 14-day Change (vertical axis) is interesting and discomforting in that up to May 15, there is an encouraging development of zero to negative change (a decline in daily cases) with the lowest on May 15 at about -21%. Mid-May also corresponds to many US States having reopened some of its business activities and the ending of residential lockdowns, starting in early May.
But starting in Mid-May there is a reversal of this 14-day change to an almost monotonic increase to June 23 where it stands at about 44%. No wonder the US health experts all expressed their great discomfort on this development of the COV when they testified before the US House of Representatives.
***
The horizontal axis numbers represent days with
Day 01 [first point in the chart] = April 20
Day 26 [lowest point in the chart] = May 15
Day 44 [the day I noted a possible upsurge] = June 2
Day 65 [last point in the chart] = June 23
The vertical axis numbers represent the 14-day Percentage Change in the 7-day Moving Average of the Daily COV cases.
On Day 44 [June 2] of the Chart above, I noted in an earlier TSH Blog — RECOGNIZING THE DECENT PEOPLE FIGHTING THE VIRUS — the following:
June 2, 2020 at 2:30 pm
I notice the trend of a declining phase of US coronavirus daily infections to a flatter one – presaging (?) an upturn as a result, among others, of the early easing of lockdowns and the recent “social-closeness” in protests in the wake of George Floyd killing.
I may mention that I used “worldometer coronavirus” data for the daily cases numbers, out of which I generated the 14-day change Chart. Others may have used other data. NYT, for example, has its own database, different from JHU and worldometer. NYT’s latest 14-day change in the daily cases (also using 7-day moving average), for example is 40% to correspond to my 44% above. [A habit of a technical man. I may lie on inconsequential item to the wife, but not on technical items. Haha.]
LATEST. The June 24 (US-ET) US daily case is reported as 38,386 (worldometer). This brackets one end of the two top daily cases so far, occurring in the following dates, two months apart:
April 24 cases = 39,072;
June 24 cases = 38, 386.
Scary.
Indeed. Keep safe.
Stay safe NH.
Thank you for your Covid analysis and updates.
Here, I still have no idea on how we will recover.
The sad stories are no longer from those attention grabbers but from stranded Ofws and other stranded individuals who will not be welcomed home without certification.
Lots of unemployed and we here again the need for hiring of foreigners.
Thanks for the information. And please take care of yourself and your family, karl.
Indeed, along with the coronavirus infections/ deaths, we have the additional sad state of affairs concerning the OFWs dubbed as Filipino Heroes for their Dollar Remittances which kept the PH’s economy afloat for many past years. Their treatment when compared to the welcome and treatment of the foreign workers is very sad — a crying shame.
😦
kawawa ang land of the morning ko, cebu! bagong hotspot ng virus at si ex army general cimatu is going to head covid fight. I’m thinking tuloy na baka cebu might become another marawi!
high ranking and famous public official sa cebu ayaw mag-face mask, does not want to hide her beauty behind a mask, dont want to muck up the foundation and expensive lipstick.
ah, the nose siguro is surgically enhanced and the mask could well push the artificial nasal bridge into the nasal cavity and choking could occur. okay, I got it. still, face shield can be worn though. little protection is better than no protection.
About Cebu.
Medyo nadown ako sa
nabasa ko.
Ayaw patawirin ang isang lola para bumili ng gamot dahil ibang baranggay na daw yun.
Pwede ka lang bumili ng gamot sa loob ng baranggay mo.
Pano kung walang drug store sa baranggay.
Re Gov Gwen Garcia
I also read about the expensive nose.
After the reason of breathing own carbon dioxide received back lash.
She gave the official excuse of being asthmatic.
She is not the only asthmatic who have to wear the mask for a long time.
tuob worries me. all those public employees having tuob kits in their work stations, I wonder how much more was gouged off covid health fund. nakaugalian na yata yan to gouge money from govt. dati, overpriced yong mga electric post na pinatayo, then bumili pa ng swamp.
there is cheaper version po of tuob kits, try vicks inhaler, mas mura yan, lol!
Oo nga kesa pawis na pawis ka habang nasa work, vicks inhaler na lang.
A GENDERIST I AM?
I am not a racist. But this sounds like genderist of me.
The NYT comment section on the to-and-fro between Gov Cuomo of NY and Gov DeSantis of Florida — about the coronavirus developments in their States — is more interesting than the article itself.
There is this one involving the phone conversation of a female commenter with her sister in the parking lot of a Florida Home Depot after the latter came out of it with her cart. Said the sister: “Over the period of about an hour, not one man entering the store wore a face mask — even when accompanied by masked females. In contrast, over half the women were masked.”
Is it a case of men having a larger than life ego or the case of women having more brain matter and intelligence than men? I believe it is more the latter. With the indulgence of my many male friends in TSH.
Here is more:
In a reply to the first commenter, another female commenter added:
… same reason why most of the time I don’t get lost but my husband does…
We may rightly talk about the failures of the PH government and the people themselves, but one thing we can say is that Filipinos in general, whether male or female, have enough intelligence to wear masks.
NH, I think everything starts with the brain, then the brain mixed with the amounts of testosterone and estrogen present in either gender; then in the mechanism of complementarity moderated by oxytocin when pairs of genders are locked on to each other. 🙂
Sonny, thanks.
I read your science info as: the testosterone and estrogen levels are just about right for a human female of the specie as nature intends it to be — that is, an optimum mix. Whereas in the male, the testosterone is out of balance with the estrogen. That imbalance is most pronounced in the case of Trump. 🙂
🙂
Yes, NH. Among other things, that the male gender has more of the sex hormone (T) guarantees the continuance of the human species. The female of the species has enough (T) to desire coitus to realize the creation of an addition to the human race at the same time that she was provided by Nature’s God with plenty of the estrogen (E) to nurture that addition. Then oxytocin was provided by the same Nature’s God to ensure that the addition will survive to maturity in the presence of protection (T) and nurture (E).
So yes, Trump seems to exhibit that imbalance that there could be too much of (T) that can cloud the brain.
This topic brings up the question of gender classifications and should bring me up to current ‘wisdom’ on gender. Facebook lists 58, others say 64, others say 72.
More knowledge for me — the functions of T,E in male/ female; then that other, O (oxytocin) for the addition. Thanks.
On a related note, here is Michael Tan’s article on Sex, Gender and Covid19.
https://opinion.inquirer.net/131163/sex-gender-and-covid-19
Oy vey, Neph. Very interesting piece.
But there is more after clicking to the next article, one by Ambeth Ocampo, on Theodore Roosevelt’s hand on US colonization of the Philippines at the turn of 20-th century.
https://opinion.inquirer.net/131161/theodore-roosevelt-in-ph-history
(Paging also Irineo & LCpl) 🙂
Theodore Roosevelt bypasses his superior and gave the go signal to Commodore Dewey to proceed with the battle of Manila Bay.
I see posts from so called nationalists that the battle was a mock battle.
Neph, I first knew about the ‘mock battle of Manila Bay’ in 1998 while reading IN OUR IMAGE’ by Stanley Karnow. It seems like the things mentioned by Ambeth were quite well known to journalists/historians interested in US-Philippines affairs. the inside politics of the US Executive branch is almost an open book to anybody interested, e.g. the interest of Theodore Roosevelt to become Gov-Gen of the Philippines because his own star was fading with respect to his own ambitions of the US presidency; so also his espousal of T. Mahan’s concept of US Navy supremacy in the Pacific – Teddy wrote a political paper based on Mahan’s naval philosophy. If my memory serves me right. I wouldn’t be surprised if these materials are required reading for Xi and his minions. Only Philippine political leaders are clueless of these, IMO.
That article by Ocampo revealed that if both the US and Spain left the Philipines the Germans or the British would have taken over.
Oh my those are big what ifs.
McKinley even said because of heavy losses during the start of the war.
In a moment of contemplation after the start of the Philippine-American War, President William McKinley noted: “If old Dewey had just sailed away when he smashed the Spanish fleet, what a lot of trouble he would have saved us.”
Read more: https://opinion.inquirer.net/122303/theodore-roosevelts-forgotten-war#ixzz6QcGyeQaE
Follow us: @inquirerdotnet on Twitter | inquirerdotnet on Facebook
After McKinley was assassinated Teddy took over.
So he is not a non factor in Philipine History.
If the Germans decided to go after Dewey, here is the hypothetical German vs American Squadron.
https://sites.google.com/site/ageofsteelandcoal/home/confrontation-at-manila-bay-1898-99
Powerful German fleet. The article lends credence to the American argument that “if we don’t keep the Philippines, other nations will seize her.”
Very true.
Just a confirmation from Digital History.
American war, pressure on President William McKinley to annex the Philippines was intense. After originally declaring that it would “be criminal aggression” for the United States to annex the archipelago, he reversed himself, partly out of fear that another power would seize the Philippines. Six weeks after Dewey defeated the Spanish fleet at Manila Bay, a German fleet sought to set up a naval base there. The British, French, and Japanese also sought bases in the Philippines. Unaware that the Philippines were the only predominantly Catholic nation in Asia, President McKinley said that American occupation was necessary to “uplift and Christianize” the Filipinos.
Document: When next I realized that the Philippines had dropped into our laps, I confess I did not know what to do with them. I sought counsel from all sides-Democrats as well as Republicans-but got little help. I thought first we would take only Manila; then Luzon; then other islands, perhaps, also.
I walked the floor of the White House night after night until midnight; and I am not ashamed to tell you, gentlemen, that I went down on my knees and prayed to Almighty God for light and guidance more than one night. And one night late it came to me this way-I don’t know how it was, but it came:
(1) That we could not give them back to Spain-that would be cowardly and dishonorable;
(2) That we could not turn them over to France or Germany, our commercial rivals in the Orient-that would be bad business and discreditable;
(3) That we could not leave them to themselves-they were unfit for self-government, and they would soon have anarchy and misrule worse then Spain’s was; and
(4) That there was nothing left for us to do but to take them all, and to educate the Filipinos, and uplift and civilize and Christianize them and by God’s grace do the very best we could by them, as our fellow men for whom Christ also died.
And then I went to bed and went to sleep, and slept soundly, and the next morning I sent for the chief engineer of the War Department (our map-maker), and I told him to put the Philippines on the map of the United States (pointing to a large map on the wall of his office), and there they are and there they will stay while I am President!
Source: General James Rusling, “Interview with President William McKinley,” The Christian Advocate 22 January 1903, 17.
Even after 122 years from Theo Roosevelt’s sleight of hand under Sec Long’s nose, Subic Bay’s military/economic value is obvious to an expert’s and layman’s eyes. Can we pivot back to those years of yore? 😦
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2015/05/18/how-south-china-sea-tensions-have-leaders-in-one-philippine-province-hoping-the-u-s-navy-returns-to-its-old-base-in-subic-bay/
It’s sure a no-brainer to me. But I think the US has neglected the PH since WWII, frankly.
Joe, my opinion: the fault is somewhere in between: US had and gave the money for rebuilding, reparation, participation; the Philippines didn’t have the organization to distribute, leverage the money and even the good sense to show what will work. There were immediate needs (e.g. feed the starving Filipinos all over the islands, there were no infrastructure for the long term, there was terrible social unrest in the central plains of Luzon to pacify (Hukbalahaps), there were vendetta attitudes to defuse (these were wounds to fester in the municipal level), there were the carpetbaggers to take advantage of unaccounted pockets of material largesse, etc.); there was the American timetable to satisfy US Congress accounting to show American citizens how they were footing the bill; this would have been the Marshall plan for the Philippines; there were only minimal appropriate expertise on both American and Filipino sides to broker solutions to long-term breakdown of law & order and to rebuild the national bureaucracy that was totally obliterated.
Wonderful condensation. I would only add that the Middle East wars distracted US attention from Asia and Obama never got pivoted. But the other problems you cite were certainly dominant. Thanks for the panoramic snapshot.
It should be known that the Obama administration effected payments approx $216,000,000 to 18,000 Filipino WW2 veterans by 2011. Deservedly, thank you for that. This action was fortuitous because the Philippine veteran records were not touched by a fire in the US archives. The roster of conscripts into the Commonwealth Army was 260,000 before the start of WW2. There were, likewise, Philippine records that were irretrievable in the time that intervened.
https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov/blog/2013/07/09/recognizing-extraordinary-contribution-filipino-veterans
New Yorker Cartoonist Robert Mankoff has this satirical cartoon appropriate for our times:
I laugh now, but I can relate.
Meanwhile here Duque does not even have preparations to panic.
Bello is in denial that our OFWs are scavenging and selling blood.
Roque said the loss of thousands of jobs were not anticipated.
Duterte has the gall to tell ASEAN that gender crimes are not the fault of the victims and do not allow tensions to escalate in as. ( No reason to panic)
*escalate in SCS.
ostrich na naman siya, hiding his humongous but empty cabeza in the bughaw na buhangin, lol! do not allow tension to escalate . . . in india, china has better way of putting down tension: bludgeoned them indian soldiers. see? no tension.
do not allow tension to escalate and china is definitely not listening. and methink, duterte is talking to hisself. most countries around the disputed region are defending their own sovereignty, india, vietnam, indonesia, japan, to name a few. hongkong is also hanging on to democracy and freedom, taiwan likewise; all resisting and defending their way of life in any which way they can.
panic is good, makes one aware there is threat. fight or flight? he’ll choose flight, of course. ostriches cannot fly, but by jove, they can run!
Duterte talking to himself.
They put him on mute then just read the transcript(maybe not)
I hope he would not tske credit for ASEAN to adhere to UNCLOS.
Who is he kidding?
He made known to the world that he does not recognize the UN.
Duque was not late to act, others just panicked so they were early to buy ppes.
Oh my gosh.
duque is not early bird and did not get the worms. he wore a number of hats too: doh chief, officiates at research institute of tropical meds (ritm) then occupies a chair at philhealth. truly a multi purpose man siya and man of many talents.
ombudsman is better off asking the public general purchasing officer when the order for ppes was done, and how long had the order been sitting in duque’s inbasket. sorry, I forgot to say na nabasa ko somewhere na may sariling hospital kuno ang pamilya ni duque. did the ppes ordered for public hospitals went there instead, by accident? tanong lang po.
at ang narinig ko po ay yong brother ni duque is good friend of duterte.
I also heard those.
duque looks lost these days. he seems to have lost initiatives and letting others lead covid fight. overworked kuno considering marami ang trabahong hawak. if he cannot lead from the front and do all the pulling, he can lead from the back and do all the pushing, and push hard.
still, missing in action pa rin siya at both ends, seen and rarely heard methink. and if he is also de facto ceo of his family’s hospital, ay kabboomm! super pandemic.
parami na sa mga front liners ang nahawaan, health workers included. all happening in duque’s watch.
kung ako lang, I’d forego contact tracing sa hotspots, medyo late na kasi at may pandemic na. I would hate to see contact tracers added to stats of those nahawaan.
I’d go for mass testing of everyone sa hotspots, hotspots after hotspots, and not letting anyone in or out. house to house testing if need be.
inter agency task force, kung may gumption man sila, ought to take the lead and hard line specially now that duque is non-event. and if they dont want to hurt duque’s feeling, well, they can always cart him around, see? he’s working hard with us, the face of covid fight, lol! no rest for the wicked.
Serving under the pleasure of the president is the most unbecoming excuse of a kakit tuko public servant.
Duque resign!
Kasambahay who is your pick as replacement?
my funny bone said dr jekyl would do well as replacement! man with air purifier could not tell the difference, lol!
Hehe unless Duque has a sex tape or something else to stay in his position.
https://joeam.com/2020/06/19/theres-no-such-thing-as-crony-capitalism-its-crony-corruption/#comment-361434
Sonny, a gem of a posting that explains in a nutshell the reasons for the failure of the postwar republic.
social unrest, vendetta attitudes, carpetbaggers, hunger, little infrastructure, broken state.
– and few people on both Filipino and US side truly able to help get the situation under control.
Magsaysay was able to, for a while, even if he swept dirt under the rug by giving landless peasants a chance in Mindanao, one reason why the Huk uprising was defused.
Just wondering: seems the Macapagal era had a bit of an economic boom, people came to the city, one peso was one Deutsche Mark when we arrived in 1968 and had HIGHER buying power, Philippines still ahead of most other SEA countries. why did people still go for Marcos?
The Huk rebellion was gone by the 1960s. The NPA was yet to be founded.
Sure, fear of warlord mayors and governors was, I recall, one thing that made Marcos and Martial Law popular. Major seizure of private arms when Martial Law started.
Just shortly before Martial Law, the Godfather-like murder of Ilocos Sur governor Floro Crisologo (Chavit Singson’s uncle) in Vigan Cathedral on Easter Sunday.
The kind of mayors Mindanao is known for were COMMON in Luzon and Visayas of the 1950s and 196g0s, especially if one reads An Anarchy of Families by Prof. McCoy. Of course removing police from local control created another monster now called PNP.
Possibly warlordism and lack of genuine opportunity in the countryside were push for factors going to Manila and the USA. Possibly rising crime in Manila was what tempted the middle class to like Marcos – same story as today with Duterte. Was the Macapagal-era economic boom possibly not inclusive enough, was the greed of some too big? The major event I recall from history books is Harry Stonehill, an American con artist. And the old stories of Marcos and Imelda as a Philippine JFK and Jackie Kennedy – of all things.
MLQ3 explains the failure of the “Fifth Republic” – the period from 1986-2016 – very well.
But nobody, not even him, was able to make so clear why the “Fourth Republic” of 1946-1972 failed. Agoncillo’s classic also failed to explain it clear and satisfyingly for me.
It always gave me the feeling of something where everybody knew where the skeletons in the closet were but nobody wanted to say anything, as if there was a curse upon those who spoke freely. Thanks Sonny for risking that curse or maybe even breaking it.
What wonderful enlightenment has popped out of this discussion.
Found this also:
“In January 1946, Paul V. McNutt, the U.S. High Commissioner to the Philippines, delivered a report to President Truman outlining conditions and their effects on the scheduled independence of the islands that July. “The situation is critical,” McNutt reported, “it does not at this moment seem possible for the Filipino people, ravaged and demoralized by the cruelest and most destructive of wars, politically split between loyalists and enemy collaborators, with several well-armed dissident groups still at large, to cope with the coincidence of political independence and the tremendous economic demands of rehabilitation.”
(Much emotion bubbling out trying to process this, Joe)
‘… risking that curse or maybe even breaking it.”
I’m as old as my country (1946) that I was born (1943) into, I thought. The skeletons were handed down by my immediate progenitors. They were always there and are now coming out of our collective national closets in addition to the ones that are currently being calcified by my generation. Just as we are sons of our history we are fast becoming the history of our sons. Either way truth should be every generation’s guide.
You’re welcome, Irineo. 🙂
@Irineo
What is MLQ3’s explanation for the failure of the “fifth republic”?
From John Nery.
This brings us to the question of the 4th Republic: The convention in legal circles is it is a constitution that demarcates one regime from another. Setting aside the validity, or lack of it, of the ratification of the 1973 Constitution, there is the question of whether the Fourth Republic began in 1973 or 1981. In this situation it seems that President Marcos himself provides the guide. [He] issued Proclamation 1081 placing the country under Martial Law which he lifted on Jan. 17, 1981 and it was not until after he secured a “fresh mandate” that year that he proclaimed the birth of a “New Republic” on June 30, 1981.
https://opinion.inquirer.net/49067/quezon-on-the-5-philippine-republics
Per wiki it is 1981
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Philippines_(1965%E2%80%931986)
Aside from the minor details about the fourth republic.
Thanks again for the enlightening valuable posts.
Found Manolo’s article.
https://opinion.inquirer.net/123446/rise-and-fall-of-our-fifth-republic
There is another article where MLQ3 writes about the new middle class, based on BPO and OFW money, and the old middle class which partly migrated or became cynical in the Arroyo period.
Of course the class split he describes between middle class and masses will have to do with inequality which I think increased especially in Arroyo’s time.
This one.
https://opinion.inquirer.net/127613/ignorance-is-bliss
Another good read, maybe not exactly the one you are looking for.
http://www.quezon.ph/2006/09/01/old-and-new/comment-page-1/
Now this is very comprehensive written for the Republic day, the Fourth of July. 2016.
https://pt-br.facebook.com/notes/manuel-l-quezon-iii/republic-day-thoughts-on-70-years-of-philippine-independence/893573054121911/
Thanks. The picture gets to be very clear now.
Welcome!
Apropos to all the #BLM and Defund Police and toppling of statues and taking down of flags over here, related to karl’s Pres. McKinley’s choice (which I’m sure we can all agree choice #4 was actually the only choice to make ), and
also sonny’s distillation of what happened post-WWII, related to all that is what happened to the Buffalo soldiers that is the 9th/10th Cavalry as well as the 24th/25th Infantry, who were formed shortly after the Civil War, saw much action in the Indian Wars and rescued Teddy Roosevelt’s unit in Cuba, eventually going to the Philippines (with a few units diverted to quell the Boxer “rebellion” in China ),
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Fagen more than any wars in US military history, has there been so much mass desertion than the Philippine-American war, on the flip side, the first and only objectively prosecuted counter-insurgency strategy (until Af-Pak that is) were done by units of said soldiers.
To test , like a litmus test, if McKinley’s decision truly fruited, one only needs to gather stories of blacks who eventually opted to stay in the Philippines instead of returning to Jim Crow America. Actually, Jim Crow America had not really taken root until post WWI , Black Wall Stree/Tulsa OK race riots happened in 1921.
Because how black Americans were treated in the Philippines 1899-1902 (back again in 1907-1909), to WWII, to Korean, to Vietnam, eventually to the first Gulf War is good parallel of how the US treated the Philippines. there’s a few up and downs, and fair weather friendships, but all in all objectively speaking there is a clear forward trajectory.
Then eventually, it’s McKinley’s choice #4, represented by DU30, this is i think where we part ways, though Singapore has opted for American 5G, so one can test the Philippines’ inclination in their 5G taste, if it follow Singapore’s decision then the US/Philippine love affair, like the blacks, will continue.
And as that Ali McGraw’s Jennifer says, “Love means never having to say you’re sorry”.
That IMHO is the best debate on everything going on here in the US, one arguing subjective, the other objective, of perception vs. statistics (NH would love this debate), but both although like two ships in the night, both sides are hauntingly valid, and explains all in just an hour of debate. All of what America is all about. Distilled. IMHO. so watch it in its entirety.
I remember Caliphman wrote a post about Magsaysay.
Maybe he was guidng me or somone else accordingly for having CIA and Magsaysay in one sentence.(I forgot the details,) but thet wss not the only time I was guided accordingly by caliphman.
The Huks were very familiar to Sonny because those were the days his dad was active in the service.
Macapagal was said to have a stiff personality.
He did some socioeconomic reforns, but I do not know what appeal Marcos had then.
“Like Ramon Magsaysay, President Diosdado Macapagal came from the masses. He savored calling himself the “Poor boy from Lubao”.[15] Ironically, he had little popularity among the masses.[15] This could be attributed to an absence any charismatic appeal owing to his stiff personality.[15] But despite this, Macapagal had certain achievements.[15] Foremost of these was the Agricultural Land Reform Code of 1963 (Republic Act No. 3844) which provided for the purchase of private farmlands with the intention of distributing them in small lots to the landless tenants on easy term of payment.[15] It is a major development in history of land reform in the Philippines,”
Wiki summarized it well.
“Ferdinand Marcos was a member of the Liberal Party (LP) in 1965, becoming Senate President during the presidential term of fellow Liberal Macapagal. Marcos found his ambitions to run for president blocked when Macapagal decided to run for a second term, so Marcos jumped from the LP to the Nacionalista Party (NP), eventually becoming the NP’s candidate for president.[4]
An acknowledged “master of populist imagery”, Marcos projected a persona of youth and virility, having himself photographed by rice farmers in their fields.[5] He also cast himself as a war hero, claiming to be the “most decorated war hero of the Philippines” on the strength of 27 supposed war medals and decorations which were later revealed to be mostly propaganda,[6] being inaccurate or untrue.[7][8][9]”
—
His spending for infastructure became popular enough to earn him a second term until inflation came into the picture.
1965, my one and only suffrage exercised. I bought, hook, line and sinker into the Marcos ‘mystique.’ I hoped for so long a time that it was not a mistake.
The Huks are still a plenty in Mindanao, karl. a different generation but still they remember. There’s Ilocanos too, mostly military who stayed; and Ilongos too, like Huks itinerants, though Huks were placed there by the gov’t. sonny’s carpetbaggers are Tagalogs, whilst Bisayans have been there longer, ie. Northern Mindanao coast.
Davao, I think is the means to understand Mindanao, though i’ve never been, Zamboanga is helpful, as far as Spanish influence goes, i’ve been to Zamboanga, but American influence, you have to go to Davao for that. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Davao_City#Spanish_era
That basically is, US/Philippine relations in a nutshell, in Davao, karl. everything sonny wrote about above, converges in Davao starting 1900.
sonny,
Teddy Roosevelt was the first US President to look towards China, not Europe. evidenced by his book on Naval strategy, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Naval_War_of_1812#Impact masked as history book. He also elevated the American West.
I gotta feeling with all this statue toppling that Mt. Rushmore will be next, I believe George Orwell wrote about this very practice, the Taliban and ISIS loved destroying statues too. Whatever the rationale, be it Evil or offensive, same-same. Like book burning.
Whoozat? Washington, Jefferson, T. Roosevelt, and Lincoln. It is not exactly a tribute to the South or slavery, even if one argues that three of the four were of racist times and social circumstances. Lincoln being there makes it a historical monument, not a discriminatory symbol.
In California they are toppling Junipero Serra statues, Joe.
No statues are safe nowadays. To think Father Serra probably saved California natives during the Gold Rush, no credit there i guess. Cascade and Sierra Nevada range indians of California were decimated, w/out mission protection during and after the Gold Rush of 1849.
All rationalizations are valid now, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gutzon_Borglum#Stone_Mountain
Well, all the names starting with SAN are in their sights: San Diego, San Luis Obispo, San Francisco, San Gabriel, San Mateo, San Bernardino, … etc, counted 32 of them), St Louis, Mo., Corpus Christi, San Antonio, Nuestra Senora la Reina de LOS ANGELES, Calif., Santa Fe …
as for Lincoln, BLM wants this statue toppled too, in D.C.
Okay, a case of beer. I’ll take “Rushmore is historical, not racial, symbolism”. It will remain, as it is, a very popular national monument.
LOL!, I’ll first need the engineers input as to how easy this would be. If simple enough, I know the Sioux would love to topple Mt. Rushmore.
Or, all the Native-American tribes can fund an accelerated schedule for the completion of the Chief Crazy Horse sculpture. The current rate of private funds & tourist dollars coming in
is but a trickle. The current sculpture has only blasted a hole on the hillside. The souvenir photos show the complete sketch superimposed on that hole! (NB: the owners of the project will not accept federal funding.)
Maybe assign the Air National Guard to keep a restricted air space over Mt. Rushmore and the unfinished statue of Chief Crazy Horse. Our Lakota Indians will take care of a ground restricted perimeter.
LC, I forget the name of the Frenchman who first said to look to China ahead of TR. Of note, A.T. Mahan is required reading at Naval War College (I hear).
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fran%C3%A7ois_de_la_Chaise
Just a hunch, since he is the confessor. And the Jesuits were sent to China.
You’re right, Neph. I forgot all about Fr. Mateo Ricci, SJ. He translated Euclid’s Geometry into Mandarin and had the ear of the emperor of China at that time. He also showed a more accurate map of his domain, turns out to be larger than what royal Chinese cartographers had!
Wrong Jesuit.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesuit_China_missions
Deja vu all over again! Pope Francis’s go-to person for Chinese culture is Cardinal Gokim-Tagle. I wonder why. 🙂
Some BLM netizens react violently to any mention of All lives matter.
karl, it’s not just BLM, it’s Antifa, K-pop fans, Tik-Tok folks, the rest, it’s also basically everyone who took ethnic studies in college instead of math and science, blame-someone-else folks. My favourite Marine that talks extensively about this subject is Thomas Sowell and
Those two speak the truth.
sonny , I know a guy that’s from that area (Mt. Rushmore) and says the Crazy Horse monument isn’t designed to be completed, its designed to have tourists donate forever. in perpetuity.
As for statue toppling,
I thought this LA Times opinion piece is spot on, we should start tearing down infrastructure, because you know racism… LOL! (but the history is spot on, we didn’t have Jim Crow per se in California we had real estate racism, culminating in Japanese-Americans being herded out of their communities in WWII, then after that the great suburban boom, pricing people out, no racism, just good old gentrification). Good read.
https://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/2020-06-24/bulldoze-la-freeways-racism-monument
By MATTHEW FLEISCHER SENIOR DIGITAL EDITOR
JUNE 24, 202011:54 AM
“Across the country, Confederate monuments are tumbling. Museums are stripping effigies of racist presidents past. Here in Los Angeles, indigenous activists toppled a statue of Junipero Serra, a canonized saint who founded the mission system that enslaved and brutalized generations of California Indians into abandoning their traditions.
The aftermath of George Floyd’s death while in police custody has created a moment for radical truth-telling. So here’s some ugly truth about the city of Los Angeles: Our freeway system is one of the most noxious monuments to racism and segregation in the country.
Most Angelenos don’t think about it as we spew carbon monoxide across the city on our way from Point A to Point B, but our toxic exhaust fumes feed into a pot of racism that’s been stewing for nearly a century. To understand exactly how that works, you have to know what things were like here before freeways came to dominate L.A.’s landscape.
Los Angeles was never a paradise of racial acceptance, but in 1910 some 36% of L.A.’s African Americans were homeowners (compared with 2.4% in New York City) — tops in the nation. L.A.’s comprehensive Red Car transit system, which offered easy, unsegregated access to the region’s growing economic opportunities, was fundamental to this success. Integrated, racially diverse neighborhoods like Watts and Boyle Heights emerged and thrived along these transit corridors.
But as L.A.’s population surged from 320,000 in 1910 to more than 1.2 million in 1930 — including tens of thousands of African Americans from the Deep South — white Los Angeles decided it was time to ramp up its own brand of Jim Crow segregation.
These efforts took many forms — most famously racially restrictive covenants, which barred African Americans and other ethnic minorities by deed from living in houses and neighborhoods deemed “white.” Where covenants failed to keep the races separate and unequal, rising Ku Klux Klan violence targeted African American families who attempted to integrate. Bombings, cross burnings and even drive-by shootings were largely successful in keeping people of color out of “white” communities like Eagle Rock in northeast Los Angeles. Then there was Manhattan Beach, which seized the homes of every African American property owner in town by eminent domain and razed them. The city then turned the land into a whites-only park.
But neither the Klan nor legally dubious covenants nor flagrantly unconstitutional land grabs were arguably as effective as the automobile and its attendant infrastructure at turning Los Angeles into an intentionally segregated city.
When the 1944 Federal-Aid Highway Act allocated funds for 1,938 miles of freeways in California, planners used the opportunity, with full federal support, to obliterate as much as possible the casual mingling of the races.
Local officials rerouted the elaborate designs of freeway engineers — often at considerable expense — to destroy thousands of homes in racially diverse communities. As detailed by Gilbert Estrada in “If You Build It, They Will Move,” mixed-race Boyle Heights was gutted by freeways. Despite a mandate to avoid parks at all costs, planners put lanes through the middle of Hollenbeck Park while spending millions to reroute around a park in the white suburb of San Dimas. Dozens of Boyle Heights homes were destroyed just to give white suburban shoppers easier freeway access to a Sears department store.”
equally damning is this Booker T. Washington quote more than a century ago, karl,
which I got watching this,
LC, I read Sowell a long time ago. I like his even-handed attitude, racewise. The subject of racism must scrutinized case by case. I think we can make mental experiments, for example by thinking out how slave-ships should be dealt with and slave captives too by using our measures of human rights we use today and see what considerations come up. Martin Luther King said the black slaves could not get integrated into American society the same way other immigrants could. I tend to see that as a big factor.
What’s troubling to me, sonny, is how the media has for the most part quelled conservative black voices such as Sowell (who by the way is a Marine), in favor of folks like Al Sharpton. Only FOX News is airing voices like Sowell’s.
And that’s why I gave the example of the Buffalo Soldiers above, I don’t think there was another figure such as David Fagen in US military history, sure a few turn coats (spies) and deserters , but to actually command the other side?!!!
My point, at some point a person has to get tired of being a victim all the time, and just stand up. I love Killer Mike especially when he’s featured on CNN, because he says stuff like blacks need to buy & own guns,
then Killer Mike would add, and also to learn to farm again, and grow their own food and go hunting with guns once in awhile.
sonny, that’s all Buffalo Soldier values, hard fought in the Indian wars, then over there in the Philippines, first against Filipinos then against Moros.
If you’ve not already listen to Booker T. Washington’s Atlanta speech, here…
http://americanradioworks.publicradio.org/features/sayitplain/btwashington.html
“Historian David Levering Lewis counts Washington’s Atlanta Exposition speech as “one of the most consequential pronouncements in American History.” Washington’s message was printed in newspapers across the country; white politicians North and South embraced the speech and its author.
So did most other black leaders – for a time. The 1895 Atlanta speech came at a time when black hopes for an equitable place in American society were being decimated by the white backlash against Reconstruction. Segregation laws multiplied across the South as lynchings and other racial violence increased. To many, Washington’s message of modesty, rectitude, and service offered a soothing promise of social order and gradual change. Before long, though, other black leaders would assail Washington as an accommodationist and, ultimately, a traitor to the race.
Eleven years after he made the Atlanta speech, Washington recorded portions of it in a Columbia Phonograph Company studio. The recording date is known – December 5, 1906 – but the location is not. It is also unclear why Washington recorded the speech. Tim Brooks, a historian of recorded sound, speculates the cylinder may have been made for fund-raising or simply as a family heirloom. It is the only known recording of Washington’s voice.3
The recording is only three minutes and twenty-nine seconds long and captures roughly a third of the speech. The maximum length of a cylinder recording was about four minutes. Washington abridges his speech by dropping the fifth paragraph. The recording ends after the sixth paragraph. It is possible that Washington continued the address on additional cylinders that have not survived or been located.
By the time he made the recording, Washington’s Atlanta speech – and his enormous power as a black leader – had come under growing attack from other African Americans, most famously by W.E.B. Du Bois. He was criticized for accommodating white supremacy and using his authority as the de facto spokesman for black America to suppress his rivals. Still, Washington was an enormously influential figure in African American history and a powerful speaker at a time when black social activism was under fierce attack in the South.”
I’ve started a savings plan for the case of beer I may end up owing you. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/01/us/mount-rushmore.html
The two monuments side by side in the land of the Native American create a powerful human contextual image and symbol of the USA. Those images in the middle of nowhere and somewhere have got to be seen and reflected upon: Freedom, Diversity, Solidarity, Transcendence.
Thanks for the enlightenment. I just read more on ALM with Walmart pulling out their ALM T-Shirts, ALM do not get the point etc.
As for Booker T, the BT I know was the Pro-Wrestler.
LCX ,
This woke call out era…
If no one calls out no one bothers.
It always has to hit close to home.
The antifas even had to knock on the doors of every home to feed them or else.(not cool)
Yes it is always blame someone else.
Enjoy your beer.
Heh heh, beer. He’s not won it yet but the monument has become a racial symbol, thanks to that stupid NYT article. But it has to get torn down for him to win.
Just to get my case of beer, Joe.
I’ll hitch hike all the way over there, and jump on top of old Teddy’s head, until his head comes tumbling down. I ‘m no geologist and don’t know anything about granite but that should cause a domino effect, thus bringing down all three other faces crumbling.
I’m sure a NYTimes reporter or opinion’er will be there, and they’ll ask, Did you do it because the monument was racist, and I’ll say nope, it just ruined a fine natural cliff, is all— and for a case of Red Horse beer! and the reporter will ask, what’s Red Horse? and I’ll say
TAMANG TAMA!
Hehehe
Never thought I would, I now prefer Red Horse over Sn Miguel Pale Pilsen on sweltering Tagudin summer days. 🙂 Bring my own to share.
sonny,
A worthy Red Horse bet
is how the hell did these SE Asian peoples get to Madagascar, i mean sure i can picture to Hawaii, to New Zealand, even to Chile, i can understand because you can island hop a bunch of islands in the South Pacific and Pacific,
law of probability explains SE Asians (Austronesians technically) even getting as far as California , the Chumash people have physical evidence, DNA evidence i dunno,
but how they got to Madagascar, with no islands to hop one to the other like stepping stones, just one continuous trip on sea, now that is a feat more worthy of study than the Polynesians, sonny! Why are no academics studying this journey, from Indonesia to Madagascar?!!!
I propose, UFOs.
Okay, i guess no UFOs, the prevailing theory is that the Monsoons probably blew an outrigger or several outriggers (separate times, and with women on board apparently) towards Madagascar from SE Asia. And they brought with them rice and bananas, and chickens.
Here’s three very interesting links i’ve come across in my readings on Madagascar. Enjoy!
1. https://afropop.org/articles/wendy-wilson-fall-on-malagasy-americans (book about Madagascar and US slave trade)
2. https://networks.h-net.org/node/28765/reviews/5546360/bresnahan-campbell-africa-and-indian-ocean-world-early-times-circa (book about how people ended up in Madagascar and the Indian ocean economy and trade)
3. https://steemit.com/travel-diary/@paradigmprospect/the-amazing-adventures-of-an-american-filmmaker-traveling-to-africa-featuring-matt-kresling-s-madagascar-journals (youtube series about a dude from L.A. , not entirely about Madagascar, but its quality documentary film-making, well worth your time)
All three are reviews. i’ve ordered the 2 books still inbound, but have watched in youtube “Madagascar Journals”, its well done. I hope he makes more films.
LC, I will review my notes on the Out-of-Taiwan theory on the Malay spread westward from Taiwan. The evidence, if any, I’m on the lookout for is for timing when they reached Madagascar.
Malays reached Madagascar around 500 AD.
Our last discussion on this is that land Bridges are either a hoaxes or not.
Where did te Aettas come from?
LCx, you are familiar with the balangay, right?
https://www.philstar.com/opinion/2014/08/06/1354385/sailing-across-indian-ocean-south-pacific-balangay
Karl, what I found to approximate an answer to the origins of the Aetas, consider:
The Anthropology/Archeology report on the first human inhabitants of the Philippines (U of Alberta paper, can’t find the links):
“No pre-hominid or hominid species such as australopithecus or homo erectus has been found in the Philippines. The first human beings probably reached the Philippines about 40,000 years ago at roughly the same time as they reached Australia and New Guinea. The Philippines, like Australia and New Guinea, were never actually joined to the south east Asian mainland but, at the low ocean levels, the water barrier was much less. The earliest human bones found in the Philippines were on Palawan of modern type and date to 22,000 B.P. although stone tools from Palawan date back to 30,000 B.P.
(Note: 30,000 BP = 30,000 years before 1950 AD)
The original people of the Philippines were the ancestors of the people known today as Negritos or Aeta. They are an Australo-Melanesian people with dark skin and tight, curly brown hair. They are also distinctively small and of short stature. As the Pygmies in the equatorial forests of Africa, the Aeta are believed to have adapted locally to the tropical jungles of the Philippines.”
Regarding land bridges in the Philippines, here’s a graphic from Chicago, Field Museum of Natural History:
http://archive.fieldmuseum.org/vanishing_treasures/Origins_3.htm
Thank you.
You’re welcome, Neph.
Karl, the phenotype of the Aetas is shared to all appearances by the natives of New Guinea and aborigines of Australia. This is begging for a common origin. That this phenotype is different from other human species suggests polygenism for the human race. Yet other studies point to monogenism for all descendants of Adam & Eve. Also plate tectonics suggests the connectedness of the Philippines to New Guinea & Australia. Thus, quo vadis? is still the agenda for answers. 😦 (Epigenetics, anyone?)
LC, Wiki resource link, Austronesian Languages to complement Madagascar & the Malay migration:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austronesian_languages
What about the lost continent of Lemuria?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lemuria_(continent)
Discredited since the 19th century but who knows what fact finding and fact checking can produce in the future.(if anyone bothers)
LCX, Just fact check the Wikipedia article.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Madagascar
sonny,
Although Aetas of the Philippines, and PNG/Australia Aborigines’, migration pattern is also another interesting topic— i read somewhere that their mtDNA were closest shared with Bushmen of the Kalahari (have you guys seen “the Gods Must Be Crazy”??? ) — I’m sure they don’t figure into the Madagascar and the Malagasies mystery.
I read also (and Ireneo can correct) that Aetas don’t have words for ocean, or ocean currents or boats, meaning they never were seafaring, becuz they walked into the Philippines, just as the Aborigines did further down into Australia and PNG. So we can rule them out.
Plus they are a lot older.
But that shared or closest shared mtDNA with Kalahari Bushmen, I’ll keep an eye out for further developments on that.
Back to Madagascar.
karl,
The most likely scenario now is that of Sri Visayan empire. that it was no accident of just people getting caught up in Indian ocean current patterns accidentally, that in fact Madagascar was a trading post, just like the Philippines was, to the Sri Visayan empire based in Java. Colony if you will.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Srivijaya#Thalassocratic_empire (i’ve never heard of the word, ‘thalassocratic’ before, but apparently that was the Sri Visayan empire )
I’ll leave you with this really good article, to seal the deal…
https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/full/10.1098/rspb.2012.0012
“Our highest likelihood model describes a settlement process in which relatively few women, most travelling from Indonesia, founded the Malagasy population—with a much smaller, but just as important, biological contribution from Africa.
This is the first genetic analysis where statistical bounds have been placed on the demographic parameters of Malagasy settlement. The most likely model favours a small founding population, which brings into question the broader context in which the settlement of Madagascar took place. A recurring hypothesis is that Indonesian maritime traders initially settled Madagascar, either as a single colonization event or via repeated settlement waves from the same source population (a process known to the Malagasy as ranto) [2,49,50]. Indeed, merchants have plied coastal Indian Ocean trade routes between east Africa and northern China at least since the Roman era [12]. However, early written records imply that these trading voyages were dominated by men; there is no mention of women on board long-distance trading vessels [13]. There is no clear evidence suggesting that Madagascar was settled in multiple waves, but because ranto is mentioned in traditional Malagasy narratives, this may be a profitable direction for future simulations.
An alternative hypothesis is that Madagascar was settled as a formal trading colony, perhaps under the auspices of the Srivijaya Empire (although Malagasy are not Hindu today), and possibly resembling later Arab trading centres in the region. Or perhaps Madagascar was settled as an ad hoc centre for refugees, drawn from those who lost land and power during the rapid expansion of Srivijayan influence. Such colonies would be established to be self-sufficient, and therefore, might be expected to include Indonesian women. However, there is little evidence—historical, archaeological or biological—of other Indonesian bases around the Indian Ocean, including the east African coast, although there may have been a Malay trading post in what is now Sri Lanka [50]. Founding such a centre in any official capacity on Madagascar—at the far extreme of Indonesia’s trading reach—therefore seems out of keeping with contemporary Indonesian trading practices. Along related lines, historical documents leave no record of refugees fleeing the Srivijaya Empire, although early chroniclers seldom paid attention to powerless groups as these refugees would likely have been.
A third hypothesis is that Madagascar was settled via a direct sailing route across the Indian Ocean, perhaps even as the result of an unintended transoceanic voyage. This view is traditionally considered unlikely, but has recently been revived based on seafaring simulations using ocean currents and monsoon weather patterns [51]. Indeed, during the Second World War, wreckage from ships bombed in the vicinity of Sumatra and Java later washed up in Madagascar, including—in one instance—a survivor in a lifeboat [52]. Cargo ships were substantial vessels during the first millennium AD—up to 500 tonnes and manned by over 100 sailors [53,54]. It is therefore not beyond the realms of possibility that a single wayward vessel might have effected the settlement of Madagascar. This would certainly be consistent with the extremely small initial size of the Malagasy population, although perhaps not with the mixed-sex founding group suggested by Malagasy genetics.”
________________________________________
karl, sonny, et al.
let me look more into linguistics and post Malagasy words, i gotta feeling Filipino Visayan words will be common, as per the theory above. And assuming Visaya is indeed from Sri Vijaya as theorized. Tausug too is close to Visayan, so I guess they’d be related too. let me approach this from linguistics and see where we end up, sonny can do Ilocano fact-checking and karl Tagalog, and Joe Bisayan. this is getting more and more interesting…
Proviso: 1) if there is an impasse in close arguments, repartee I should not continue beyond 4-level deep; my point – I hope Joe will allow & moderate; thus:
THALASSOCRACY: 1) the term conjures up high adventure & possibilities; it means rule or reign involving motion n change in the high seas; 2) examples: 100s-strong group like a barangay settling a coastal area, a society based on sea commerce (UK, the Dutch, Spain, Portugal, the US, China somewhat limited coastline)
LINGUISTICS: vocabulary to describe one’s physical surroundings, e.g. Ilocano contains words proper only to Ilocanos w/experience of the coastline; words learned thru universal experience, like labial sounds learned suckling the breast, or onomatopaeic sounds to denote surroundings, e.g. boom, splash, hiss.
These are some jigsaw pieces I use, apropos the great Malayo/Polynesian migration.
“Sri-Vijaya, 650-1377 AD
The first evidence for the opening of the sea route between India and China comes from the report of a Chinese traveller, Fa Hsien, in 413 AD that he had taken a ship from Sri Lanka directly to China. The beginning of the T’ang dynasty in 618 AD brought renewed stability to China and greatly stimulated the trade and traffic on the India-China sea route through the Indo-Malayan archipelago. For the kingdoms along the Sunda and Malacca Straits, their goal was no longer merely to participate in the China-India trade but to control it as it passed by their territories.
For more than 600 years, the Buddhist kingdom of Sri Vijaya was the strongest of the Straits kingdoms. Sri Vijaya was located at Palembang in southern Sumatra facing out on the Sunda Straits. The kingdom is first recorded in 650 AD as having conquered the west Java kingdom of Taruma. A passing Chinese monk in 671, I-Tsing, comments favourably on Sri Vijaya as a fine centre of Buddhist learning. The kingdom was in regular communication and exchange with Nalanda; the centre of Buddhist scholarship in the Ganges delta of northern India.
By 686, Sri Vijaya had asserted its hegemony over the Sunda Straits and the adjacent Javanese kingdoms. A century later, in 775, it had similarly dominated the Straits of Malacca and commanded tribute from all the kingdoms along its shores. Attaining monopoly control over the trade through the Straits and then keeping it demands a special ruthlessness in suppressing rivals and discouraging interlopers. Sri Vijaya was equal to the task.
While Sri Vijaya was establishing its predominance, three generations of Sailendra kings in central Java, between 770 and 825, built the magnificent Buddhist temple complex of Borobudur.” — U of Alberta paper
sonny,
I’m more leaning towards the third hypothesis again, seeing that that era in that region was very Hindu and Buddhist, still in the island of Bali today both religions are viewed as one really.
You’ve been to those stations of the cross places in the Philippines, where instead of inside the church, its outside wherein you have to walk a certain amount of distances, some short, & some others are actually a trek,
well Borobudur, is similar, where you’re suppose to walk, taking in each lesson from each station until you reach the top, reach Nirvana.
Why that was not brought to the Philippines, Hinduism/Buddhism, better yet physical representations of said beliefs and processes, tells me that whoever ended up in the Philippines and Madagascar, weren’t really too excited about Hinduism/Buddhism.
That would’ve been the first order of business for me, build something that everyone can participate in. Which reminds me of that TV series “Lost”, probably easier said than done, sonny.
My point, i think all hypotheses are still open.
As for 1-10 in Cebuano and Ilocano, my first thought was that there shouldn’t be likeness as you’ve indicated, Ilocano being representative of Taiwan to Northern Philippines theory of migration, then Cebuano representative of migration from the south (maybe Borneo) up north to the Visayas.
but if you think about it further, 1-10 isn’t actually the best gauge, is it ??? 1-10 and numbers in general would be the first to become universalized, just to ease trade. Thus we have to look at other words.
“Why that was not brought to the Philippines, Hinduism/Buddhism, better yet physical representations of said beliefs and processes, tells me that whoever ended up in the Philippines and Madagascar, weren’t really too excited about Hinduism/Buddhism.”
Very perceptive insight, LC.
The Hindu/Buddhist culture goes way back. So there was a connectivity lag between the animist Malays (pre-historic) & the high culture (‘modern’) of India. The Hindus (pantheists) located Borobudur at the heart of the Malay jungle (animist). Hindus seem to be saying ‘follow us whether you care or not’ The Javanese exhibit this duality through Sanskrit and the Malay language. The Philippines/rain forest remained an outlier until modern technology started to bulldoze the jungles.
https://sites.ualberta.ca/~vmitchel/rev4.html
To begin, here’s 1-10, and already there’s plenty of similarities. Supposedly , Malagasy language is also peppered with Bantu/Arabic/Hindi words, but the grammar and structure is Austronesian solidly.
i’m still trying to find other Malagasi words matrixed similarly as above. And also I’m kinda tangentially curious about Aeta/negrito language now as well.
The Ilocano similarity to Cebuano is very striking: 1 thru 10 is as follows, maysa, dua, tal-lo, up-at, lima, innem, pito, walo, siyam. sanga-pulo. It is to be noted that Northern Luzon (Ilocanos, Ibanags) were the earliest settlements from Formosa; artifacts attest to this).
Of interest also, is how the banana got to Madagascar:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banana#Historical_cultivation
These ancient introductions resulted in the banana subgroup now known as the “true” plantains, which include the East African Highland bananas and the Pacific plantains (the Iholena and Maoli-Popo’ulu subgroups). East African Highland bananas originated from banana populations introduced to Madagascar probably from the region between Java, Borneo, and New Guinea; while Pacific plantains were introduced to the Pacific Islands from either eastern New Guinea or the Bismarck Archipelago.[47][48]
Phytolith discoveries in Cameroon dating to the first millennium BCE[51] triggered an as yet unresolved debate about the date of first cultivation in Africa. There is linguistic evidence that bananas were known in Madagascar around that time.[52] The earliest prior evidence indicates that cultivation dates to no earlier than late 6th century CE.[53] It is likely, however, that bananas were brought at least to Madagascar if not to the East African coast during the phase of Malagasy colonization of the island from South East Asia c. 400 CE.[54]
A second wave of introductions later spread bananas to other parts of tropical Asia, particularly Indochina and the Indian Subcontinent.[47][48] However, there is evidence that bananas were known to the Indus Valley Civilisation from phytoliths recovered from the Kot Diji archaeological site in Pakistan (although they are absent in other contemporary sites in South Asia). This may be a possible indication of very early dispersal of bananas by Austronesian traders by sea from as early as 2000 BCE. But this is still putative, as they may have come from local wild Musa species used for fiber or as ornamentals, not food.[49]
Southeast Asia remains the region of primary diversity of the banana. Areas of secondary diversity are found in Africa, indicating a long history of banana cultivation in these regions.[55]