Kay Binay walang masamang tinapay?

binay angry

Does he get angry? [Photo source: Inquirer]

Does Binay Get Mad at Corruption or Not?

Guest article by Andrew Lim

I am writing this personal piece because there is something that bothers me about the front runner in the 2016 presidential race. And I hope it stirs a response in those who read it, specially those with personal information on the Vice-President (like Senator Saguisag), and those who are undecided yet for 2016.

Before we go to Binay, I share my own little story.  I am not a diehard yellow army fanatic, to use the tired epithet of the intellectually lazy.  I was orange before. Due to an organizational affiliation and knowing his management skills, I believed Villar was the best choice. When the 2010 campaign started and the brickbats started flying, I advised his handlers to go on the offensive themselves. But he was not that type and preferred the high road. When he finally went on the offensive, much of his earlier lead had evaporated. In the end, even the non campaigner Erap overtook him.

But two years into the term of Aquino, I came to the realization that he is a rare leader in the sense that he was willing to spend political capital on causes he believed in, even if it meant taking on against institutions like the courts and the church.

You see, for me, it takes a special person to get mad at the corrupt and go after them. Most of us do get mad but do nothing about it. Arroyo barely lifted a finger and even her appointees to the judiciary were installed to sit on cases. The Catholic church teaches us that stealing goes against the seventh commandment, but inadvertently creates a culture that is so docile and forgiving it ends up enabling the corrupt. Forgiveness and reconciliation then obscures the need for justice. (I wrote a previous piece on this:  Does Catholicism make us more tolerant of corruption?)

Now with Binay:  I don’t get the impression that this man stands for good governance the way Aquino or Robredo did. He will get things done, alright, but it may come at a price.

Does he belong to the camp of those who believe in “Di baleng corrupt, basta matulungin sa mahirap”?

Let me refresh your memory:

  • Binay’s reaction to the plunder evidence against his UNA partners. Why is he not aghast at the allegations against his political partners? Why does  he belittle the efforts of the DOJ? [‘Slam dunk’ a dud –  Binay; Inquirer]
  • Has Binay stood against corruption in his long stint as mayor or as VP?  His spokesman Jonvic Remulla has stated that corruption in Makati city hall has long been entrenched. What has he done about it? Why does it seem to me that he tolerates it? [Binay camp on accusers: Triumvirate of corruption; Inquirer]

I urge netizens and others who read this to do crowdsourced research on the individuals or staff members of Binay- the Gerry Limlingans, the Erlinda Chongs, etc.  I ask this because if you do an analysis of the staffers of many UNA members, you will notice that many of them are the same cast of characters employed as staff assistants or social secretaries or executive assistants that have been embroiled in previous scandals.

I also ask the honorable former Senator Rene Saguisag who was Binay’s partner in human rights lawyering:  Can you vouch for Jojo’s integrity and put that in writing?

I need not ask the Aquino sisters about Binay, because their answer is what will be good for them, not necessarily what’s good for the country.  Kris Aquino: “I like him. We like him. He’s helped us a lot. He is always there for us.” [A ‘flighty” Q&A with Kris Aquino: Why endorse Jejomar Binay?; Inquirer] [‘Why not?’ Aquino sisters open to endorsing Binay; Rappler]

If you can ally yourself with Estrada and Enrile, shouldn’t that be a cause for concern?  (Kung kaya niya makipag-alyansa kay Enrile at Estrada, hindi ka ba magdududa sa inaasal ng UNA?)

Can anybody certify that if Binay wins, he will appoint a new NBI chief and DOJ secretary who will not sabotage the plunder cases against Enrile and Estrada?

To be fair, Binay’s human rights work for MABINI during the martial law years is commendable. But I have not seen enough in the man to make me sleep comfortably at night, not knowing if he is really a man of integrity or not.

He can get things done for sure, but they may not be all necessarily on the side of good.

Does corruption anger Binay or not? Or does he consider the corrupt a Philippine reality, and they should be tolerated and forgiven and turned into allies?


51 Responses to “Kay Binay walang masamang tinapay?”
  1. orlando marasigan says:

    a very good question sir

  2. edgar lores says:

    1. Wonderful piece, Andrew. The tone is pitch perfect: sober, balanced, more questioning than condemnatory.

    2. All parents teach their children to choose their friends wisely. We are influenced – and judged – by the company we keep. Using Robredo’s standards, can we say that Binay is not mahusay judging from his fellow tinapay?

    3. You also put the shoe on the foot of Binay’s associates by challenging former Senator Saguisag to vouch for Binay’s integrity. This dovetails with JoeAm’s post for Senator Poe to declare her sentiments, one way or the other.

    4. Binay is on the roast. Will he be toast? Or will he coast?

    • andrewlim8 says:

      Thanks. Seeking the highest post in the land requires both integrity and competence. It seems Binay is content with competence.

      I was watching a replay of an interview of Toby Tiangco (UNA’s campaign manager) and Prof. Holmes of Pulse Asia with Ms Hontiveros on Solar News 9. What made me sit up and take note was Tiangco’s statement about the 10 pt decline in Binay’s preference surveys:

      “What’s unfair is that the VP kept on doing his job and kept on performing during the Senate hearings and yet his standing suffered.”

      He missed the whole point! The imbroglio was about integrity, not competence! And he was still harping on performance!

  3. what bothers me is that despite all these allegations of corruption and mounting evidences supporting them, binay is still topping surveys.

  4. Bing Garcia says:

    Binay used COA as his defense in the speech while COA preliminary investigation reveals the parking building was overpriced.

  5. macspeed says:

    @Joe Am
    There are voters of different kind but let me summarized that into two (2) divisions. The rich and the poor are the main division and each main division, there are sub categories for each.
    Rich Division:
    The rich voters are divided into two (2) sub categories of voters, namely those who look for good governance and those who live through typical favors with their businesses. Perhaps the ratio of these voters, the good ones are more in numbers than the bad ones.
    Poor Division:
    This division compose of very poor, poor and the middle or working class. The very poor and poor voters are more in numbers and are easily purchased with promises or direct vote buying. Gossips easily transfer from mouth to mouth. They don’t really care who is the winner; most of them goes to vote whom their neighbor has voted. One voter will be at war if one questioned their chosen candidate. This is where the trapos get their number of votes multiplied. Giving t-shirts, snacks and some sort of gifts and most specially a hug and kisses (beso beso) from the candidate, this is where VP Binay is so strong. How can PNOY candidate can win if the present and presence are not available. PNOY parties should continue the marketing philosophy to win the heart of the poor and very poor voters. The jailing of the corrupt politicians are a good attractions for all type of voters. Quick reactions for victim of calamities are also a magnetic force to yield voters in favor of candidate of PNOY. Other things should be implemented now to get some additional attractions for PNOY candidate.
    The middle or working class such as the OFW can somehow be divided into pro Binay or anti-Binay. The swing vote also depend on favors for some middle or working class voters, such as housing being provided for some, work employment, businesses as livelihood.
    Trapos action:
    In order to win, one candidate should act like a trapo. Take a look for example Erap who won in Mayor of Manila despite the case which unseat him as president. Now, Erap has manifested to be good, avoiding corruptions and doing really management for Manila. If Mar Roxas can get his act better everyday plus the favor he will have to give including beso beso during election time, he may win hands down.
    Other Candidates:
    For Grace Poe, is it true she is the daughter of Marcos? This is scandal mongering arising from mouth to mouth and blog to blog. I asked one blogger to provide proof before saying, such as that. Grace Poe has the ability to do trapo on as required basis and she will defeat VP Binay for sure.

    • Joe America says:

      As long as VP Binay has his sister city allegiances in place, with local mayors telling the good story about him, along with handing out some freebies funded by the huge piles of money that are out there, then he remains a tough candidate. If I were a candidate or the backer of one, I’d try to break down the sister city relationships.

      As for Poe and Marcos, how can that be given more credence than the connection of Binay and his corrupt brothers, a connection of similar values? Superstition has more weight than fact for way too many people.

  6. Dolly Gonzales says:

    So right. ‘Walang masamang tinapay.’ I’ve heard his strategy described as ‘politics of addition.’ It does add up. 🙂

    Does he get angry? It seems, so far, only at those who dig up anomalies involving him or his family, like Heidi Mendoza, Cayetano, Trillanes, and even Ombudsman Morales (for reviving a dismissed case vs his wife).

    He is also angry at (now-detained) Delfin Lee who – strangely – wants desperately to air his side in a senate inquiry, claiming to be a ‘political prisoner’ of Binay. (Whom did Binay take over from as VP and as head of housing/Pag-IBIG? Maybe we’ll hear more about this issue soon?)

    Funny, the link you provided on Binay’s reaction to Cayetano and dummies… If a reporter’s question can throw him off-balance like that, no wonder he avoids being questioned by Cayetano…

  7. The Binays want to shut down the Senate subcommittee hearings because they are televised. They do not want the public to see their body language nor hear their pleadings. I also think it will be good to televise the Ombudsman’s investigations and Sandigan Bayan hearings so a larger chunk of the populace could see how their tax money work.

    Binay knows that delaying techniques are standard lawyering procedures. Even the SC could not stop Senate hearings so the jurisdictional challenge is just an effort to buy him more time so his lawyer can look for technicalities.

    Binay should be reminded that graft and corruption will be at every 2016 presidential candidate’s platform. He can’t continue dodging the allegations or he will meet his Waterloo in 2016. The pork scam and other ongoing investigations and hearings will keep graft and corruption fresh in people’s mind so the best thing Binay can do is tackle the allegations head on NOW in a forum preferred by the people. That will be the televised Senate hearing, or the soon-to-be-televised Ombudsman’s investigation and Sandigan Bayan hearings.

    • Joe America says:

      The VP is a master of accomplishment, as Edgar notes. Even now you can see his thinking at work. Delay, avoid, challenge, confuse, work his media people, speak out loudly for the poor, and associate with Pacquiao and any other popular person able to withstand being seen with him.

  8. edgar lores says:

    1. Another aspect that to me is glaring of the shortcomings of Filipino political law is the matter of unused campaign funds (UCF). A good part of the “wealth” reflected in Binay’s SALNs is the bump caused by UCFs.

    (Source: http://www.rappler.com/newsbreak/investigative/71007-jejomar-binay-saln-highest-vice-president)

    2. The law is silent on how UCFs should be administered except that the money must be declared as taxable income and, therefore, subject to tax. From this, it appears that a candidate can keep the funds as personal income.

    3. In the US, the rule is that UCFs cannot be considered for personal use. There are several options for administering UCFs post-election, such as keeping the money for re-election; repaying the money to donors; turning the money over to the party treasury; donating the money to charity; or funding scholarships.

    3.1. In Australia, campaign expenditures are capped and are reimbursed retroactively, after the election, by public funding based on the margin of votes garnered. Yes, government money. (Political spending is not lavish because there is no way to recoup it.) Fund raising events and private donations are permitted for on-going funding of campaign expenditures. I believe UCFs, if any, are maintained by the party secretariat for future election funding.

    4. Because political parties are unstable entities, I would propose that UCFs, unless donated to charity or scholarships, be surrendered to the Comelec for safekeeping and released back to the candidate when and if he decides to run for office.
    4.1. If the candidate does not put himself up for re-election, he may release the funds as a donation or pass it on to a nominated party/candidate.
    4.2. After a specified period of non-use, say two election terms, unclaimed UCFs may be sequestered and used by the Comelec to defray a specific and limited set of functions such as recall elections.


    5. A troubling aspect of the Filipino character is that we are not finicky about money. We do not care so much where money comes from as long as we can have it. And we have a sense of entitlement. We treat other people’s money – including the national treasury – as our own.

    5.1. How people handle money is one of the best indicators of character – or the lack of it. People who are scrupulous about money are often trustworthy. As a corollary, people who are UNscrupulous about money are NOT trustworthy.

    5.2. In this, we Filipinos are sorely lacking in integrity which is the notion, where wealth is concerned, that when dealing with self the money we earn/spend and borrow/pay must at all times be in a wholesome manner.

    5.3. In this, we are also lacking in that quality called honor, which is the notion, where wealth is concerned, that when dealing with others the money we earn/spend and borrow/pay must at all time be in an honest manner.

    5.4. But, no, we will prostitute, steal, cheat, kill for the green stuff.

    6. As we have seen – in the mysterious source of their wealth, the fixed biddings, the overpriced procurements, the rumoured duffel bags full of cash, and the epal giveaways (some of which are sourced from foreign aid) – the Binays are UNscrupulous.

    • gerverg1885 says:

      Binay had been so fixated with power and money ever since he saw what the Marcoses amassed during their reign and what Estrada and Enrile were able to build from scratch He is a man on a personalized (or a family) mission to rule this country as long as he wants to like in Makati because he learned so much from Estrada on how to tickle the imagination of the simple people who kept on voting for him despite his conviction.
      Nahuli niya ang kiliti ng mga mahihirap.
      (About that giveaway sourced from foreign aid. I commented once in this blog about my letter to the late Billy Esposo regarding those household items given by his campaign organization in the Cordillera mountains before the 2010 elections. Included in each package was a brand new spade donated by the Denmark Red Cross.)
      His giving away those houses should not be considered performance. I’d like to say it is early campaigning while deftly dodging the hearings that’s damaging whatever integrity ha had left.
      And that’s what insatiable greed can do to anybody who no longer understands the meaning of the word ‘ENOUGH.’
      I simply pity him!

      • edgar lores says:


        It was the memory of your story that triggered that parenthetical clause about the misuse of foreign aid. Thanks for calling a spade a spade!

        “Enough” is not in the vocabulary of our politicians and priests. We would protest, “Tama na! Sobra na!” And they would say, “Sandali, marami pa! Gusto ko pa!” And sadly we would give in and say, “Sigue na, bahala na.”

        But now it’s different. We have seen the monsters we have created, the triumvirates of corruption languishing in detention… and it is not good.

        So now as Binay says, “Gusto ko pa!” – Andrew and netizens forestall him and chorus, “No way, Jose! Si Binay ay masamang tinapay!”

        This is a chorus that, in as many forms and in as many variations, must be heard across the land.

        • gerverg1885 says:

          This is not to sound desperate but this country is being run by a clique of people whose greed for money and power knows no end because it knows how to make promises to the poor folks who had not seen through all the lies they made through the years. It’s the same line which Binay copied from Estrada as it had been proven to be so effective since the latter entered politics.

          The writer Matt Taibbi was so right when he wrote that “organized greed always defeats organized democracy.” And it will always remain defeated since it had been a disorganized democracy since that supposed independence handed down by the Americans.

    • parengtony says:

      Even Senator Mirriam confirmed this fact – that Erap’s wealth actually came from unspent campaign funds. During the 1998 campaign, at least two donors gave more than a billion pesos each. But, unlike Binay, Erap is very kuripot with campaign spending. In 1998, the only time he spent big money was for precinct watchers to safeguard the vote counting process. He knew the masa loves him. He was so confident of this that when he got elected president he never had second thoughts about not giving in to the self serving demands of the rich people who donated to big money to his campaign. Thus came EDSA 2.

      • edgar lores says:


        Thanks for that.

        So successful politicians have at least 7 sources of income?

        (1) unused campaign funds (UCF)
        (2) pork barrel
        (3) kickbacks
        (4) protection money which is a specific form of kickback (e.g. from jueteng)
        (5) ex gratia donations while in office (e.g. discounts on motor vehicles)
        (6) regular salary and allowances
        (7) irregular bonuses (e.g. Enrile’s X’mas gifts).

        It would be interesting to know what share of the pie each source contributes. I suspect that for Binay UCFs are but the tip of the iceberg, and that kickbacks (Mr. 13%) would constitute the biggest wedge of the pie.

  9. BFD says:

    I’d like to share with you this insight about this Filipino saying (Nasa Diyos ang awa) put into perspective by Efren N. Padilla who wrote it in the Opinion > Blogs section of gmanetwork.com.

    Link: http://www.gmanetwork.com/news/story/380402/opinion/blogs/what-s-in-sa-awa-ng-diyos-and-vp-jejomar-binay?ref=related_stories

  10. Seems like Binay’s spokeperson came out to say that he divested from the piggery and flower business in 2010 because the farm caretaker reported that a helicopter is flying around the property. Could it be Failon and his gang?


  11. Cory Hipolito says:

    I recently heard about a focus discussion being conducted prior to the 2010 elections. The lawyer who was conducting it was a Mabini colleague and co teacher of Binay at St. Scholastica’s College. He gathered a few of Scholastican graduates and asked them why they would not vote for Binay for VP? The Scholasticans wanted the issue of corruption answered first. No answer, the response was at least you know him since he was your former professor.
    I wonder if Senator Saguisag will tell the truth or be like the lawyer who turned a blind eye just because they are friends.

    • Joe America says:

      Integrity, patriotism, loyalty to friends. President Aquino deals with the same tugs, and given that political parties are personality based, rather than platform based, friendships and not making enemies means a lot. Thus we have a quiet Poe, a quiet Saguisag, and a nation that is more obsessed over the Police Chief’s house than the shocking testimony presented to the Senate Subcommittee dealing with the parking garage.

  12. brianitus says:

    Binay is a special animal. Even the incumbent president cannot go after him directly.

    Anyway, rest assured that my clan won’t vote for him. My friends won’t vote for him.

  13. josephivo says:

    Eating even pansit with your fingers and smile as if you do it every day is more important than integrity. That’s what creates political capital. Most politicians know this and seeing his ratings they will not take any risk by questioning his integrity.

  14. sonny says:

    @ Andrew

    A very good tickler of an article: pointed questions, some hints pointing to answers, information that must be gathered about the person of mr. Binay, etc.

    Points that caught my eye:

    “But two years into the term of Aquino, I came to the realization that he is a rare leader in the sense that he was willing to spend political capital on causes he believed in, even if it meant taking on against institutions like the courts and the church.
    You see, for me, it takes a special person to get mad at the corrupt and go after them. Most of us do get mad but do nothing about it. Arroyo barely lifted a finger and even her appointees to the judiciary were installed to sit on cases.”

    The act of ‘to jaywalk or not to jaywalk’ – there is no middle ground. The pedestrian either goes to where crossing is legal or proceeds to the nearest straight line to cross to the other side. Are there physical barriers to crossing straight-ways? Are law-enforcers ready to act on jaywalkers? Can I afford the fine? What are the other pedestrians doing? (the enforcers can be overwhelmed) Is the time I gain worth it? What decision and motive do I act on?… IMO, this paradigm is acted out by good and bad citizens alike, on grave, medium, trivial matters, Much more so our politicians. For example, on the RH Bill, was the president being a good president when he signed it to law? Was he a good Catholic? Is this a true dichotomy? I feel this ‘scorecard’ is God’s and the individual’s and the people affected. A Catholic absolution is unconditional in an admission in the sacrament of Penance. If the sense of social justice is not fulfilled or reinforced, all bets are off as to God’s justice and the penitent is living on borrowed time, so to speak (sudden death whisks him off to God’s tribunal, else a continuance exists). This is what I understand about a life of sin vs the life of grace. One can escape human sanction but NEVER God’s accounting. What’s true for the individual is also true of governments and peoples. In this example, whatever and however the decision-process of the president, we look at the gains & losses resulting from that decision. The Roman Catholic Church’s (RCC) view is always what is good for Faith & Morals. Like in the RH Bill, the RCC cannot compromise the preservation of life at inception, continuation, and completion (the Fifth Commandment).

    “The Catholic church teaches us that stealing goes against the seventh commandment, but inadvertently creates a culture that is so docile and forgiving it ends up enabling the corrupt. Forgiveness and reconciliation then obscures the need for justice. (I wrote a previous piece on this: Does Catholicism make us more tolerant of corruption?)”

    I had a chance to read your 2013 article. Another interesting read mr Andrew. Messrs. Mouse & M. made cogent Catholic replies, I thought. There was the nagging question why a Catholic nation such as the Philippines is so beset by corruption and malfeasance in spite of being under the Catholic influence for more than 300 yrs. In addition to some answers in the combox, I will suggest one more – the perennial shortage of missionaries in the Catholic Church. At the beginning of the Spanish colonization in 1565, there was approximately 1 missionary to 4000 Filipino souls. At close of the Spanish era in 1898, this ratio was still the same. Today, the situation is worse. it is 1 priest to minister to 40,000 Filipinos!

    From the point of view of Christian evangelization, this is a critical situation. Then as now Baptism (be it at birth or adulthood) is only the start of a Christian life. To a Catholic this beginning leads to the life of the 7 sacraments, channels of God’s grace as revealed by him through the Scriptures and the Church. This is God’s economy, sociology and governance. Priests figure in this as teachers, pastors and administrators of the sacraments, a direct connection to Christ himself. The upward and downward dynamic of this God-to-man relationship is the Christian’s life. (The Catechism of the RCC explains this dynamic in 21 paragraphs). Paragraphs 1131 & 1134 sums up sacraments thusly:

    (from RCC Catechism)

    “1131 The sacraments are efficacious signs of grace, instituted by Christ and entrusted to the Church, by which divine life is dispensed to us. The visible rites by which the sacraments are celebrated signify and make present the graces proper to each sacrament. They bear fruit in those who receive them with the required dispositions.


    1134 The fruit of sacramental life is both personal and ecclesial. For every one of the faithful on the one hand, this fruit is life for God in Christ Jesus; for the Church, on the other, it is an increase in charity and in her mission of witness.”

    • sonny says:


      1132 The Church celebrates the sacraments as a priestly community structured by the baptismal priesthood and the priesthood of ordained ministers.

    • andrewlim8 says:

      Thanks for the comments.

      1. What is your take on the 2014 Univision survey that showed significant divergence of Catholics around the world on certain issues from the official position of the RCC?


      2. What is your take on the “last minute conversion” or the deathbed conversion in terms of absolution? Does it work or are there conditions for it to work? Do you think it is a technique used by the corrupt? How does the story of the thief nailed to the cross who asked for forgiveness? Is that an example of this?

      • sonny says:

        Thanks for the chance to comment:

        1. On the Univision survey: The results across the board reflect my opinion that much, much has to be done, now and the future, by the Catholic Church (hierarchy and laity) to educate everyone about the authentic doctrine and practice of Catholicism. The categories measured in the survey are fair categories to address for the clarification of the general population and the catechesis of the Catholic membership. The Second Vatican Council has formulated for Catholics and non-Catholics what this authenticity is. The Constitutional documents and Catechism embody the canons (norms) of the Catholic Church for EVERYONE to see and understand. The obligation to proclaim these is incumbent on both Catholic hierarchy and laity. The well-catechized Catholic should be able to parse the statistics that display the numeric parameters of how the Catholic Church is perceived by the world through the UNIVISION lens.

        My opinion:

        Divorce: Catholic Sacramental marriage is between man and woman and it is covenantal, not merely contractual.

        Women becoming priests: This can never happen. The Catholic priesthood is first of all a pure physical symbol, i.e. Christ was male, no Scriptural reference says otherwise. Christ the High Priest is married to his Church, his bride.

        Married Priests: Latin Rite priests will always be unmarried; Easter Rite priests have traditionally been married, not all.

        Abortion: Against the 7th commandment

        Contraceptives: Artificial contraception is never allowed.

        Gay marriage: Not allowed. Chastity is incumbent on all – homosexuals and heterosexuals alike. Any sex outside of marriage is a sin: homosexuals, the sin of sodomy; heterosexuals, the sin of fornication.

        2. I’m glad you identified the last-minute conversion as a deathbed conversion. Absolution is outright forgiveness, deathbed or not. For the thief, how we wish we were all in his shoes – God himself, w/o mediation, forgiving and the first penitent to be ‘whisked’ to heaven, non-stop! Yet such is not the case for the rest of the people who Jesus Christ redeemed. For the rest of us, time intervenes. We admit our sinfulness and ask forgiveness and end this confession with a promise NEVER to sin again and perform reparation for the injustice one has done. In Catechism classes we learn that to die immediately after confession is like the good thief’s situation. We call the situational sequence as DEATH-JUDGMENT-HEAVEN OR HELL. But such is not the case for the majority of us – we don’t die after absolution, rather we are given the chance to live the conversion of heart of the absolution and live out the promise/resolution never to sin again. If we do otherwise, we are automatically condemned back to hell. If one dies w/o a petition for forgiveness in one’s heart, the consequence is fast and sure. To fake contrition is just to deceive oneself. This is the short version of the sacrament of Penance.

        • sonny says:

          Should read: … Eastern Rite priests

        • sonny says:

          (Important note):
          In the sacrament of Penance, the economy of forgiveness includes the mediation of priest dispensing absolution. This is so because of Christ himself delegated such authority.

          The long version:


        • andrewlim8 says:

          Sonny, thanks for the elucidation.

          But just like before, they are the “should be” and not “what is”. So many of the nominal members of the RCC do not understand or know this. Which is why they slip all the time.

          Hence, the burden is on the hierarchy.

        • sonny says:

          Andrew, between what was said in this your blog and your blog in 2013, there is much to think about, many questions and answers. You have put the burden on the Church hierarchy; I say, the state, its agents, the citizenry, the Church, her agents and its members have equal burdens. If this is a non-answer, then truly we have a lot of work to do.

          Allow me to allude to a state of affairs during the Spanish Inquisition. It was a time when heresy was also considered a civil crime because it threatened the unity and peace of the kingdom (Jews, Muslims, Christians). There was a Christian majority but there was also a strong Jewish and Muslim leverage in commerce and education. To adjudicate heresy, the king allowed the Church to pass judgment as to who were truly Christians and who pretended to be Christians (for gain). The final judgment and punishment was ALWAYS meted out by the King. Even Saints Teresa of Avila and Ignatius of Loyola were not exempt from the courts of the Inquisition.

          • andrewlim8 says:

            That’s definitely a big non-answer, and it leads to nowhere. It has been like that for the past three hundred plus years, so nothing much comes out of it. It’s like that standard answer “change will come from each one of us”

            Who owns the proprietary control over the brand or the product? Why not exert better control over the followers to make sure they understand and apply it to their lives? Of what use are good doctrines if its proprietors do not explain it well and demand accountability among its followers?

  15. sonny says:

    “… Of what use are good doctrines if its proprietors do not explain it well and demand accountability among its followers?”

    I get you. Thanks.

    At what point should the “proprietors” disengage?

    • andrewlim8 says:

      Should they?

      Why not weed out those who cannot understand or those who choose to disobey? The size of the flock may diminish but the “brand” will be enhanced. It will become known as the brand that has a very positive effect on its followers – that of being more resistant to corruption.

      My purpose is not to get too caught up in “theological narcissism” or be “self-referential” as Francis has warned. Too often the apologists I have encountered have been too comfortable that there is nothing wrong in the doctrine ergo the hierarchy need not do anything different.

    • sonny says:

      Andrew, I need a clarification here. Who are we calling the “proprietors”?

  16. Halala2016 says:

    If he din’t do anything wrong he should not be afraid

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