Return the ill-gotten wealth first, Bongbong (#SaanGalingAngPeraMo)
Young Bongbong . . . out of touch?
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by Andrew Lim
With Bongbong Marcos running for Vice-President in 2016 sans standard bearer and party nomination, one easily sees it as a tactical move, one that sets a higher future objective: becoming President of the Republic. It is a test, now or never, and would be the Marcos family’s last chance since Bongbong’s siblings are not interested and their matriarch is near the end of her life. A last chance to artificially cleanse their legacy and revise history.
A common rationale – “he is not his father”, used in the past by the extreme Left when the Nacionalista Party adopted Satur Ocampo, and used lately by the plummeting Binay does not hold water because of the massive ill-gotten wealth. In both instances laughable since all their principles went out the window. Where exactly did the Marcos wealth come from?
An even weaker argument – one that this writer believes is a product of the “easy forgiveness” culture encouraged by the dominant religion here- is that we should forgive and forget, and move on. As if the pursuit of justice is not as central and important to one’s faith as forgiveness.
Marcos Squid Tactics
Bongbong is not the least apologetic. He re-frames constantly, avoiding direct responsibility for anything, and tries to dangle alternatives to make people forget their track record.
“We are here to serve. That has always been the culture in my family.”
“Many cases have been brought to court here and in the US. But if you talk to people, they are not concerned about that. Filipinos are concerned about their lives today. They want answers: ‘Why are there drugs in our streets? Why is the crime rate going up at an alarming rate? Why is the educational sector miserable? Why is distribution of wealth not happening? Why is the government not doing anything?’ . . . This is what people are worried about, and that’s what I will address.”
“What happened in 1986 happened already. These things have already been decided. To analyze it belongs to those historical scholars. But I am not a historical analyst. I am a public servant. All I look at is what people want from their public servants. It’s very simple: leadership, a plan, a program, policies to improve their lives.” [Marcos: Filipinos want solutions, not history talk]
The senator shows no remorse about his family’s role in Philippine history.
“I felt it to be an advantage, a blessing and I’m very thankful that I am a Marcos. . . . I am very happy that I was born into the Marcos family. I never felt it to be a burden.” [Bongbong: ‘I’m thankful I’m a Marcos’]
This comment has earned some sharp rebukes, and I hope the President and others in civil society will take up the cudgels and rebut the Senator.
Here’s the best tongue-in-cheek response to Bongbong, written by Boying Pimentel for the Inquirer; Boying was a veteran of the student protest movements in the eighties.
“It’s tough to know what’s going on when there’s so much partying going on. And as we now know from the home movies retrieved from Malacanang after the Marcoses were chased out of the country, the dictator and his family loved to party!
So how in the world would Bongbong know about the repression and the plunder that was taking place around the country. How was he supposed to understand this dark era of pain and brutality when all he saw were bright party lights and happy times.” [Bongbong Marcos is right: Why should he say ‘Sorry?’]
And for levity, Boying has this to say in a separate article:
“Yes, I think Marcos Jr. running for president would be a great idea for the following reasons:
(1) He wouldn’t win. . . .
(2) Bongbong would speak (and say crazy things). . . .
(3) Imelda would be in the spotlight again, speak (and say crazy things). . . .
(4) It would force the Marcoses to tap and move their hidden billions. . . .
(5) It would remind young Filipinos what Marcos Sr. did to the country. . . . “[Why Bongbong Marcos should run for president in 2016]
A Brief Primer on these Neo-Marcos Loyalists
Most of the originial Marcos loyalists – the politicos comprising the Kilusang Bagong Lipunan, the corrupt military men, and the civilians are either very old or have died by now. Kit Tatad, the youngest then in Marcos’ Martial Law cabinet is already in his late seventies. So who are these new supporters of the Marcoses?
Intrigued by this development, I investigated this phenomenon some years ago by engaging a number of these neo-Marcos loyalists in online and face to face conversations. And this is the disturbing and sad insight I got: Many of these kids come from very dysfunctional and broken families. The absence of responsible adults in their lives make them vulnerable to targeting by the Marcos camp. Some have one or both parents who work abroad, and multiple problems emerge from this set-up: many of the marriages break down, one parent carries an affair and the long periods of separation lead inevitably to alienation amongst the family members. Gradually, all crumble. The kids are adrift. They have to fend for themselves – either economically, socially, mentally and for the unfortunate ones, in all of them.
Lucky are those who have aunts and uncles or grandparents who can take over parental responsibilities, but they generally cannot give the constant attention and teaching, specially on political awareness.
It is a very gloomy world these kids live in, full of frustration and despair. They see the country as hopeless, and their futures bleak.
Enter the Marcos camp. Making full use of internet-era tools like Youtube, Facebook and blogsites, they create alternate universes of reality – that the Marcos era was a morally upright one, and cite its dubious achievements while glossing about the corruption and the abuse.
The head-scratching thing about it, though is that due to the absence of educated and responsible adults in their lives, these kids lap it all up, when all they have to do is ask around and read the reputable news sources. They are content to just read the Marcos-supplied propaganda, many coming from non-reputable sources.
A close parallel are the youthful ISIS recruits who are so disillusioned and distraught with their personal lives that they succumb to this romantic notion that joining ISIS is a noble adventure that would give meaning to their personal narratives. Female recruits are sold the fantasy of meeting their future husband-warriors in ISIS.
Why does this happen? My personal theory is that the fable that there was once a golden era and there is a chance it can be restored is a soothing one; it eases all the pain and angst these kids are undergoing, and that things are not in their control. There is a saviour, a white knight that will banish all their demons and magically restore their broken lives. And that messiah, albeit a false one, is a Marcos.
Not all of these Marcos loyalists are youngsters, though. On Raissa Robles’ website, I was able to converse briefly with an elderly loyalist. Intrigued as to her authencity, I requested her to provide bona fides. To my surprise, she did. Unfortunately, she never replied back, probably spooked as to how I was able to sniff out her real identity. I was most interested in having a real conversation with a person who lived through all those years and still come out in support of the Marcoses.
Except for benefiting personally from the corruption, perhaps a faulty, selective assessment?
- You can find our exchange here: Marcos Pa Rin; My husbands Lovers.
There is just one practical way for Bongbong to make amends to the Filipino people. Apologize, and back it up by returning the rest of the ill-gotten wealth.
Otherwise, he is just as evil as his father and mother, and should be rejected resolutely.
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The Society of Honor by Joe America 
Discussing with the young Marcos loyalists sometimes feels like a lost cause. Even if you show them “the truth”, even if you show them the facts, even if you show them the data, even if you share with them actual experiences of Martial Law, they will simply not listen, or even worse, they will dismiss these as “propaganda”. As if pro-Marcos YT videos and Facebook posts aren’t propaganda. These loyalists only seem to care about “discipline”, at the expense of every thing else. They also keep talking about “cheap prices”, even though these prices date back to the term of Quezon and in fact became more expensive DURING Martial Law. Finally, they talk about all the infrastructure. This is one of the few things I agree with them: Marcos did leave a legacy of infrastructure. But at what cost? Ballooning debt and increasing poverty. They not only do not appear to be well-versed in logic and in fact seem to abhor it; talk to them and they’ll dismiss you as a “Yellowtard” or a “Noytard”, forgetting about the fallacy of the false alternative: while probably most anti-Marcos people are pro-Aquino, not all are: people who are anti-Marcos and anti-Aquino exist (such as the militants). Just because you are pro-Marcos doesn’t mean you are anti-Aquino, and vice-versa.
Perhaps the saddest thing about loyalists is that a few support a return to Martial Law precisely because of a lack of freedom of speech: they feel that the “lack of discipline” today can be traced to freedom of speech. Yeah right: if Martial Law were in place today, Facebook, Twitter, and other social media would either be blocked or heavily censored.
Same thing with Dutertards. Discuss with them his problems (his being part of a political dynasty, his friendship with Joma Sison, his indecisiveness, etc.), and they shut you out.
They could very well be part of the propaganda team of the Marcoses themselves; from time to time they pop up in Raissa’s site. At some point, they have appeared here also. So it’s pretty useless to try convincing them otherwise. One posted several links that were written by Marcos propagandists.
It’s tough to be both young and stupid at the same time. Try telling them to choose just one. 🙂
OBVIOUSLY YOU PEOPLE DON’T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT LEADERSHIP STANDARDS OR POLITICAL ECONOMY….FEEL FREE TO MEET ME IN A DEBATE ANYTIME, OF COURSE WITH RULES, ABOUT THE MERITS OF MARCOS…. I WILL USE THE USA’S LIBRARY OF CONGRESS AND PEER-REVIEWED JOURNALS TO MAKE YOU LOOK LIKE THE IDIOT AQUINO FOLLOWERS THAT YOU ARE…
So what are these merits of Marcos? Both father and son.
This posting by LCpl_X pertains to multiple postings by the same individual, referenced here: https://joeam.com/2015/10/10/return-the-ill-gotten-wealth-first-bongbong-saangalingangperamo/#comment-140678
Flippinflips, I have deleted your other two cut and paste jobs and sent them to the spam file. I’m leaving this comment in so that people can witness the incivility of the pro-Marcos crowd that believes in rude insertion into respectful discussions, in loud caps, in blustering dares and threats. A fine replica of Old Man Marcos. Such uncivil behavior is astounding to me, truly. It is like pubescent teens striving for manhood with nothing to back it up.
That kind of behavior isn’t surprising anymore. A ton of these loyalists ask people who question their arguments to “research”, and when the anti-Marcos people return with researched facts, data, etc., the loyalists will dismiss these as propaganda. I have never heard of a case where memes and false YouTube videos are suddenly more reliable than books, charts, actual detailed experiences rather than vague ones about “discipline”. Marcos loyalists sound a lot like conspiracy theorists these days.
I don’t think, Flippinflips, will return.
So allow me to play Devil’s Advocate here.
This is Bong-Bong Marcos’ resume:
Vice Governor – Province of Ilocos Norte (1980–1983)
His political career started with his election to Ilocos Norte’s vice-gubernatorial post in 1980. His term expired in 1983.
Governor – Province of Ilocos Norte (1983–1986)
Was he in Hawaii, exiled with his family, for 1986-1992 ?????
Congressman – 2nd District, Ilocos Norte (1992–1995)
He then was elected as Representative of the 2nd district of Ilocos Norte in the Congress of the Philippines, serving from 1992 until 1995.
What happened during 1995-1998 ?????
Governor – Province of Ilocos Norte (1998–2007)
He again was elected to the gubernatorial post in 1998. He ran against his father’s closest friend and ally, Roque Ablan Jr., and served for three consecutive terms ending in 2007.
Congressman – 2nd District, Ilocos Norte (2007–2010)
He ran, unopposed, for the congressional seat in the 2007 Philippine Elections, which was previously held by his older sister Imee. He is the founder of Confederation of Ilokano Associations Incorporated.
Senator – 15th & 16th Congress (2010–present)
He ran for a national post, as a Senator in the 2010 elections. He placed 7th with 13,169,634 votes.
His family’s ill gotten wealth, notwithstanding, how was Bong-Bong Marcos as Vice-Gov, Gov, Congressman and Senator?
His only “contribution” was during the BBL deliberations and even then me-thinks he was only active there because the BBL is the brainchild of his nemesis. He has filed a few bills but I think only or two ever got passed. Arguably that’s a better track record than Aquino during his time in Congress, but the difference is that Aquino was never accused of corruption or lying whereas Bongbong was, dating back to the time of Martial Law where he was apparently CEO of some company (Philcomsat?) but never attended meeting, the rumor being he was only part of that company so that the profits would go to his father’s pockets. I’d still pick the mediocre but incorruptible legislator over the mediocre and corrupt one.
Remember the President of Hungary who resigned after it was discovered that he plagiarized (meaning: faked) his doctorate thesis? I’m surprised there was no public clamor for Bongbong to do the same.
“I’d still pick the mediocre but incorruptible legislator over the mediocre and corrupt one.”
That’s a pretty low standard.
“I’m surprised there was no public clamor for Bongbong to do the same.”
It’s says “earned a Special Diploma”, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bongbong_Marcos#Early_life_and_education Is this what you’re talking about?
How about Wharton, cuz Trump’s daughter went here as well.
That’s the problem. He claimed to have graduated from Oxford when in fact he only got a special diploma. If he were more transparent about it; meaning, if he admitted from the start that he did not graduate from Oxford, then that would not have been a problem.
So this “Special diploma” is fake? What exactly is it? I know Oxford has a weird system, so maybe it is legit. Anyone contacted Oxford on this?
http://www.rappler.com/newsbreak/investigative/85844-oxford-university-confirms-bongbong-marcos-got-only-special-diploma
Thanks, Mami, this is perfect. Diploma & degree are considered different in the UK! LOL!
# # #
Marcos Jr equates a diploma with a degree, an apparent attempt to fudge the facts. “I got a diploma!” he told reporters. “What do you get when you graduate? A diploma,” he said.
In the UK educational system, a diploma is not equivalent to a degree. The University of Oxford Department for Continuing Education is explicit:
‘An Undergraduate Diploma is the same as the second year of an undergraduate degree.’
A student from a UK university told us that “anyone who only has a diploma did not complete the 3-year degree course, did not take the exams, and therefore has not been conferred a BA.”
A graduate of Oxford, who commenced with Marcos Jr at St Edmund Hall, put it sharply: “Essentially this means that Marcos is a college dropout, in the sense that he has not completed a degree to Bachelor level.”
# # #
Now Marcos loyalists, this is what you call research. Tell me to “basa muna” and then I’ll show them actual facts. Don’t dismiss them as propaganda or biased because they are backed up with data. I should probably challenge the Marcos loyalists: give unbiased data on the economy during Marcos’ time, preferably from foreign institutions such as the IMF. Don’t dismiss them as propaganda, just find them.
Or better yet, I’ll challenge them to not use social media for the rest of their lives, and to not say anything bad about the government due to the risk of being “salvaged”. I’ll tell them that that is what life was under Martial Law. I’d probably have to remind them that if Marcos wasn’t in power, they probably wouldn’t even be able to go online and make pro-Marcos statements… because their websites would be blocked ala-China.
I think the best way to fight Marcos loyalists is to throw at them a bunch of reductio ad absurdum. If prices were cheap during the time of Marcos, then prices must have been even cheaper during the time of Aguinaldo: does this mean Aguinaldo is the best president ever?
“His family’s ill gotten wealth, notwithstanding, how was Bong-Bong Marcos as Vice-Gov, Gov, Congressman and Senator?” The Ilocos vote. I remember a trip to Ilocos Sur and Ilocos Norte – the Spanish-style town of Vigan, the fortress-like ramparts of Sarrat, and the town of Batac where Marcos was born. Everything REALLY clean and fixed. And careers especially in the military for Ilocanos. Now Ilocanos seem to have the warrior gene in them – Filipino GIs are often Ilocanos or Igorots, there is a joke that GI means genuine Ilocano…
1995 -1998 – he run for senate in 1995 and lost.
Ah, yes, I understand the approach better now, thanks. They do sound loopy to me, too.
Not only some people’s incivility, but their cowardice by using aliases rather than their real names to avoid accountability for their words.
Correct, but we are honorable gentlemen. I as a gentleman – gentleman bandit sometimes – am civil even to barbarians. And counter their nonsense with logic, as much as possible.
Yeah, really, what a jerk these cowardly no-names are. (It is always good when a first time visitor comes in and declares his moral superiority over those who have worked years developing a reputation for civility, intelligence and respect.)
I want to smile and grin on that, but I won’t.
Sneak it in, Bert. I won’t tell.
Okay, Joe, I trusts you. 🙂
I want to smile and grin on that, . . . so I did . . .
And here’s the grin…:)
@Flippinflips
Thank you for revealing your character right away with your first post. Justifies everything.
We don’t have to debate, Flippinflips (your name is racist btw). Show me all the books from all the libraries you can think of. I’m sure you’ll skip the Guiness Book of World Records. Me, I’ll simply show you a single picture of the Marcoses in the plane to exile in Hawaii, show you their faces. If they were any more heroic than you imagine them to be, they’ll be angry, eager to return to settle scores, to right the wrong. No, they didn’t. They simply counted in their heads their stash of gold, jewelry and Bagong Lipunan notes, and looked at each other askance. scornful at everyone and no one, despirited, shorn of agenda or vision, defeat in their faces. Still want that debate?
Oh, from https://www.facebook.com/FerdinandEMarcosBestPhilippinePresident/photos/a.704683709601634.1073741862.331489700254372/821635824573088/
“On the day of reckoning, when all the cameras are there when FPJ registers in the COMELEC, FPJ could say one more thing: Now the mudslinging can begin in earnest. ‘To all my enemies and accusers The day I will start my work as President, I have this to say: I will seriously consider and call the best lawyers to file the biggest court case on earth, Filipino people against the Guinness Book Of Records for $100Billion. For lying to the world about our late President and for destroying the credibility of a whole nation! At least they will have to show us where they got the information that Marcos was the biggest robber of all times, from which court and when. Maybe they can tell us how much he stole. If not, well, that I leave to the lawyers’.”
Read these and weep, Flipper:
This contains the partial list of money plundered by the Marcoses from Filipinos:
http://asianjournalusa.com/chronology-of-the-marcos-plunder-p10909-67.htm
This article summarizes the REAL Marcos regime. Leadership standards and political economy, my foot!:
http://thedailyguardian.net/index.php/iloilo-opinion/17659-we-must-not-forget
No need for me to research much – I lived in that era as a child and youth. My mother is German and was born in Berlin just a year before WW2, meaning I have firsthand experiences of Ferdie Marcos and direct family accounts of Adolf Hitler. Two dictators.
When we came back to the Philippines with my father who had completed his doctorate in anthropology in Paris – REAL doctorate about the ancestor cult in the Pacific, the ANITO – Deutsche Mark to Peso was one to one and the buying power of the Peso was higher. Effectively Philippines was more AFFLUENT than Germany at that time, for the people. When I left DEM to PHP was 4:1. Now EUR (around 2 DEM) is 80 PHP. Inflation started during the Marcos era because he plundered the country and financed using debts.
Exchange rate =/= good economy. Just look at Japan or South Korea.
The GDP per capita would be a better indicator. My point being, that the Philippines was a RICH country when Marcos started, at the same level for middle class people as Germany. Marcos ruined that rich country – which reminds me to research historical GDP per capita.
My mother came from Germany in 1968, and told me how life got harder in Marcos days. In the 1950s the Philippines was second only to Japan in East Asia, ahead of Korea.
I mean GDP PPP (purchasing power) . We left the Philippines in 1982 and life had definitely gotten harder than in the late 60s when we came to the Philippines.
Ah, I see. For a moment I was worried that you were defending Marcos, but your other comments made me realize otherwise.
Could you check how the GDP and GDP per capita was before and after Marcos? I know that at present the Philippines is technically a rich country, with a high GDP, the problem is that GDP capita is low which means that wealth is not reaching the masses.
Actually I am hoping that some of our people here can do that research – the crowdsourcing approach. The Marcos trolls are in my blog now with their propaganda.
SUGOD, MGA KABABAYAN!
But I will not go first like Capt. Rusca. I will join when I see some support.
I remember how half of the Filipino community did not join the planned occupation of the Philippine Embassy in Bonn that I led in 1986, which failed as a result. I left the country because both KM and the Marcos regime had me on their list as a 17-year old teenager…
As long as the mentality is like that – you do it, you go forward, tulak tapos iwan – or worse, Heneral Luna clutching his guts while running from cowards and assasins – not going back.
http://www.tradingeconomics.com/philippines/gdp
Gdp 1960-1986
http://www.tradingeconomics.com/philippines/gdp-per-capita-ppp – by purchasing power parity is more significant… but there you have the data only starting from 1990.
It should alway be per capita as well, because of the growing population. GDP per capita PPP was the previous chart, this one is GDP per capita: http://www.tradingeconomics.com/philippines/gdp-per-capita
The good news being: GDP per capita PPP has grown 30% since 2010.
Meaning: the purchasing power of each Filipino on the average is 30% larger now.
The next interesting question is: how is this increase distributed among ALL Filipinos?
Another important indicator is Debt to GDP, thanks Karl for the link:
it is now at 45%, it was 75% in 1994, 70+% in 2004 – it was already down to 50+% in 1997-something but the Asian financial crisis seemed to have messed it up…
http://www.tradingeconomics.com/philippines/government-debt-to-gdp
The competitiveness index also looks good:
http://www.tradingeconomics.com/philippines/competitiveness-index
You are giving me too much credit,my way of saying thanks.
thats a false indicator maam mami as neither the Japanese Yen nor the South Korean won have cents so comparing the exchange rate of those countries to the dollar our baseline here who does have cents is a bit lopsided. you have to take into account that as well so instead think of it as comparing 1 won/yen to 1cents of a dollar then youll see there is a strong correlation if not an indication of a strong economy and purchasing power of a currency. 🙂
Trying to be scholarly huh,iharap ko sayo si Mercedez wala kang ibubuga. Kita kayo sa Library of Congress. …and that’s a fact in the library of congress.
Sige nga flippinflips, ipamudmud mo sa mga SIAF’s.
“Same thing with Dutertards. Discuss with them his problems (his being part of a political dynasty, his friendship with Joma Sison, his indecisiveness, etc.), and they shut you out.”
Uuuh, about being part of the political dynasty wouldn’t be a problem if you did best as a public servant. About friendship with Joma, it wouldn’t matter if it’s just personal, but if Duterte did something that ultimately sacrificed the public interest for the sake if his friendship with the commie, that would cross the line. About his indecisiveness, well, running for President of the Republic is not just something that you can decide on in a snap (specially in Dolphy’s reasoning) unless you have vested interest. If you’re calling those pro-Duterte “Dutertards”, who do you think is the candidate worth endorsing by the people like them, tired of being stuck with “retard” incumbents?
>if Duterte did something that ultimately sacrificed the public interest for the sake if his friendship with the commie, that would cross the line
He personally admitted to “coddling” communists. That sounds like crossing the line to me.
I think you were just fed up with gossips by yellow group. All negative things you know about marcos’ are reported by media who are against them. Your experiences during martial law might be bad but that doesn’t have to mean martial law is not good in general. Only a very very very small portion of the country’s population have had bad experiences during marcos’ time and that cant represent “The Philippines”. Saan galing ang pera nya? Not from the public. The philippine govt doent have gold bars. People of the philippines dont pay taxes in the form of goldbars. The gold bars were given to him in exchange for his services as a very good lawyer. It’s a fact. “Ill gotten wealth”…only cory said that and now noynoy. Balloning debt, its like an idividual who lent money from the bank and doent pay on time or does pay at all. You know what will happen right? So that is what cory did after they throw marcos. They did not pay the debt so that it will appear as marcos’ dark moments. They cant even prove that marcos’ fortune are ill gotten. Overall, i think anti marcos like you are not the one listening and not doesnt want to accept facts. You will stick to the idea of aquino’s. Those were completely baseless and just want to destroy marcos’ great reputation as a leader. Now, would you tell how aquino lead the nation? Its the worst economy fell during cory, and then noy noy and now his lying the economy is rising. But i dont think you will do that. B/c you stick to your stand and will not listen to facts. So who is not listening.
Ah, it is refreshing getting such an incisive analysis done here, making a lie of everything those biased and incompetent international news and rating agencies are reporting about the Philippine economic gains. We can set aside the analyses of S&P, Moodys, the Economist, Transparency International and others in favor of Glenn’s statement of fact.
By the way, Glenn, who the hell are you? If you don’t mind me asking. I am sure you must have credentials better than those other people, given your confidence and willingness to discount what they say.
What, Marcos announces his campaign and suddenly every ignorant nut in the Philippines flocks to the internet to create new realities. That’s just my opinion, reflecting a small touch of frustration that so many Filipinos really want their nation to be a piece of shit forever.
Your heart, Joe. The beloved country is beloved not only by angels but also by devils. For some reason, devils have taken residence in our country. Why? I think they just want to live like kings and queens because we let them. It’s not in our culture to say no to powerful concepts or personages. Traffic is one indication of this syndrome. Law enforcement is two-tiered. Carry that over to all aspects of Philippine life and you can see that it’s really heaven here for the rich and powerful. Marcosian history is being rewritten courtesy of this cultural loophole. Angels have their work cut out for them. How? Go to the other side of the ship, swim against the tide hoping that this time you may get a following. This time you may get enough angels to get to tipping point.
Social media, unfortunately, is a fine outlet for devils as well as angels. And I fear that the field for growing horns and tails is fertile. People with good values are at a disadvantage to those who will lie and deceive. The number of intelligent people willing not to use their intelligence disturbs me.
We generally do not practice preventive medicine, maintenance, politics. We wait till crisis spreads, bringing the entire body politic to paralysis and near-death and then it’s time to act, time to turn the tide. Winners on either side do not cut off heads, so you basically get the same mix to stir up trouble, crisis, response, the cycle of rise and fall. I suppose it’s a human condition, like disease, never completely eradicated.
Evil triumphs when good men do nothing: https://joeam.com/2015/10/10/return-the-ill-gotten-wealth-first-bongbong-saangalingangperamo/#comment-140952
Wadapak Glenn you think those gold bars came from the Yamashita treasure LOL.Only the rich dont pay taxes,the poor who has work does. Only a few were affected? Why because out of 40 Million Filipinos only a few thousand were killed and tortured? Mukha tayong casillas if you take a look at the top view of the ccp,you will see a toilet.BNPP was an epic fail and we pad for it.Join Flip’s debate team,he needs another one for his dumb and dumber team.
Have those two guys who said Marcoses are already aquitted so we better what and learn as backup.
Merciful Christ.
The problem with some people is they don’t know what they are talking about. Hindi nga din nila alam na gagawin lahat nang mga Marcoses makabalik lang sila sa pinaka mataas na pwesto para mabago nila ang kanilang amoy basurang pinag gagawa during Martial Law.
Isa sa mga halimbawa nang political strategy nila ay ang i-encourage na tumakbo bilang President si Mayor Duterte, na pinalalabas nila na maraming taong gusto maging President si Duterte at si Bongbong ang Vice President. Kasi sa oras na biglang mamatay (huwag naman sana) si Duterte, sino ang papalit sa kanya? Di si BBM. kung sakaling sila nga ang manalo sa 2016 elections.
Bakit si Mayor Duterte ang pinili at ginuguyo nila na tumakbo bilang President? Kasi si Mayor ay maraming may gusto sa kanya at madaling ibinta sa mga taong ayaw nang Democracy. Si Duterte ay honest na tao at matapang. Pero siya ay may idad na. Kaya ginagamit ni Bongbong Marcos si Duterte para mapadali ang pag upo nila bilang President at magawa ang gusto nila…
Also, I do agree with the statement that “Bongbong is not his father” and so does not necessarily inherit the sins of his father. However, I do not like Bongbong based on his own merits. Firstly, he misinformed the people about his educational background, claiming to have graduated from Oxford and Wharton when in fact he dropped out from both. At least Recto apologized for his inaccurate educational background while Lito Lapid admitted that he only finished high school. In other countries, politicians who have lied about their educational background have either resigned or were publicly shamed. Only in the Philippines could such a politician still have a solid fanbase, even among the youth. Secondly, while the child does not necessarily inherit the sins of their parents, Bongbong is different. He personally admitted in a past interview that he was involved in Macoy’s antics. Finally, and most importantly, he has never apologized for what his parents did: in fact, he says that there is nothing wrong with Martial Law. Such a statement is disrespectful to the thousands of people who lost their lives, thousands more who were jailed, and countless Filipinos whose lives deteriorated during that time. The fact that there are still youth, the same youth who do not even know why Apolinario Mabini kept sitting in Heneral Luna, who support Bongbong is making me worried about the future of the country.
Historical ignorance among Filipinos today possibly also had to do with UP historians being forced to work for Marcos on his Tadhana project. Not forced really, but being given “offers they could not refuse” by Godfather Marcos. Is Agoncillo still used as THE history textbook?
Agoncillo was dated even in the 1970s. Now no historian wrote a new textbook if I am not mistaken. I am now asking myself why. Could it be that many were like certain musicians forced to play for the Nazis – to have their hands broken afterwards, never to play again?
The climate in the Marcos era was very anti-intellectual. UP people were the first to be detained – ABCed was the term for that. Their children were observed, there were even attempts to make them spy on their parents, to harrass them in school and other stuff.
The only institution that I think survived the stupidification of the Philippines in that time was the DOST. I was Pisay, and the dictator wanted to train technocrats. But not people who think independently about political issues. Ignorance is Strength. Orwellian Philippines.
If I come to think of it, inane consumerism and shallow entertainment – bread and circuses for the people to keep from thinking – were also something that started in the Marcos era. The paradox is that some Marcos loyalists use these phenomena to criticize present times.
In UP, yes. As far as I know, it’s also the basis for most High School history textbooks. I think the problem not only lies in the textbooks (which are outdated although they do show the horrors of the Marcos era), but History is not being taught well enough.
The funny thing is, I normally don’t agree with people like Renato Reyes and other progressives, but when it comes to Marcos’ issues, they are spot ton.
People in the Philippines should stop thinking about AlDub and Pastillas Girl 24/7 and instead put that fanaticism to good use, such as educating the masses and helping the poor. As JFK (or his classmate?) said: “ask not your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country.”
“History is not being taught well enough” Definitely not. Names and dates instead of the STORIES about how people lived, what motivated them, what made them succeed/fail. Which is a gap that Heneral Luna the movie addresses. My blog attempts to do it as well.
Looking from afar, the Philippines looks like a barangay on an island, contentedly partying while Chinese ships are approaching. And unlike Lapu-Lapu, they are not ready to defend.
You know, it wouldn’t have been so bad if Bongbong at least admitted that he never completed his studies at Oxford, similar to how Recto admitted he had yet to complete his MA degrees, but no, he had to lie.
The Bongbong is not his father argument doesn’t give any traction i believe. If these people where in their right minds (Irene, Imee, Bongbong), and if they’re not their father, then they should have admitted already to their family’stransgressions and returned their loot. Kung baga, they were in part accessories to the loot dahil they themselves benefited from our people’s tax money. To continue to deny the wrongdoings simply makes him guilty just the same as his father’s… I mean family’s transgressions.
Exactly.
Very well said Ty.
Bongbong isn’t his father, but he certainly seems to take after his mother. Amoral and delusional.
He takes after both of them…in short, too risky to be president.
I’m bothered to hear and see social media posts from youth today, expressing their support to Duterte and Marcos. I wonder if the public safety issues today is what pushes them to look for people who have dictatorial/tyrannical tendencies and who do not even know the word “remorse.” The youth have forgotten how to be critical. They are easily carried away by propaganda coming from these two’s fantards.
The saddest part is that not only do many of them eschew at critical thinking; they actually balk at the idea. Question their arguments and you’re dismissed as being a “Noytard”. “Aquino loyalists” who believe that Cory was perfect and ignore issues such as the power crisis and the Hacienda Luisita massacre aren’t much better but at least I rarely see them say “Marcostard” (except maybe as a tongue-in-cheek reply to being called a “Noytard”).
Since many Filipinos are visual and not logical in their thinking – preferring movies instead of reading, which is why Heneral Luna had such an impact – and I am no exception, work hard at cultivating the logical aspect because I am among a very logical people, possibly visual stuff will shock them like this statue of Marcos, which clearly shows that he was a sociopath, a Filipino wannabe Ramses – and combine that with Shelley’s Ozymandias…
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ozymandias
“a shattered visage lies, whose frown,
And wrinkled lip, and sneer of cold command,
Tell that its sculptor well those passions read
Which yet survive, stamped on these lifeless things,”
And all dictators loved infrastructure – Napoleon did, Hitler did, Ramses did. They were not thinking of the people doing that, they were building monuments to themselves.
In fact it was Marcos who started encouraging OFWs as a source of national revenue. So even that which eventually tore up much of the fabric of society has its origins back then. The problem is that governments after Marcos just coasted along, oblivious to the long-term effects of their policies of relying on OFWs, accepting inane consumerism and shallow entertainment – all things which started in Marcos’ time. Now the effects are there, as evidenced by what Andrew is writing. Neglected young people seeking orientation.
I don’t want to invoke Godwin’s Law, but sadly it seems to be true in this case: the way many Marcos loyalists praise him are similar to the ways neo-Nazis praise Hitler. It’s okay to kill people as long as infrastructure is built and discipline is established?
Yes, of course it is true. And Neo-Nazis had an upsurge in East Germany after reunification, when society broke down for a while there. Things have improved there, but societies in crisis are always a breeding ground for groups that give false orientation.
ISIS in Arabian societies. Ceaucescu fans among young Romanians under 25 – born after he was ousted – are common as well, because Romania did not manage to get its act together in 26 years of democracy, many parents in Western Europe working and more. The young there just see the problems that democracy can have – and are more openly spoken about – and do not know how it is to live under a dictatorship. Older generation does not talk, partly because the wounds have not healed, partly out of fear because ex-Communists now run the Mafia there and are represented in politics as well. So the distorted view wins. Germany managed to handle its democratization well because many people came out and spoke on TV and elsewhere about the bitter realities of Nazism. Romanians rarely speak about Ceaucescu. Filipinos from the Marcos era rarely speak about how it was during that time. And democratic forces are not doing enough to dispel the propaganda that democracy is an elitist lie. And show the benefits of Daang Matuwid.
People need guideposts. Quezon had his civic code, but that was forgotten after WW2.
The Republic after WW2 IMHO muddled through, if Magsaysay had not been there who knows it would have ended earlier than Marcos. Marcos gave false guideposts in the form of the New Society, the Revolution from the Center and all sorts of slogans and nonsense.
The Republic after Marcos muddled through as well IMHO. With Cory and Ramos it was at least clear what they stood for, even if it was not precisely defined. Ramos could be seen as a democratized version of Marcos. Erap and Gloria stood for what? Daang Baluktot.
Daang Matuwid was a promise to straighten things out. But its values not well-defined.
Its successes? Not well-communicated. CCT for example. Its reforms? Resisted. See K-12.
It is a Filipino trait to have long memories on the mistakes one has done and has short memories on the good one has accomplished. This axiom defines the invictus of President Ferdinand Marcos. The fictioned awful acts attributed to him and to his family shunned his achievements and contributions to the country.
Looking back at history, during the Marcos administration, social justice finds concrete translation in development plans and programs. These interventions were focused on eliminating illiteracy, expanding employment opportunities, sharing the fruits of development equitably and introducing requisite of institutional change. The measures of development—the Gross National Product (GNP), literacy rate, and life expectancy had been secured during his lead. Let us count the ways:
I. Food sufficiency
A. Green Revolution
Production of rice was increased through promoting the cultivation of IR-8 hybrid rice. In 1968 the Philippines became self-sufficient in rice, the first time in history since the American period. It also exported rice worth US$7 million.
B. Blue Revolution
Marine species like prawn, mullet, milkfish, and golden tilapia were being produced and distributed to farmers at a minimum cost. Today, milkfish and prawns contribute substantially to foreign exchange income.
C. Liberalized Credit
More than one thousand rural banks spread all over the country resulting to the accessibility of credit to finance purchase of agricultural inputs, hired labor, and harvesting expenses at very low interest rate. During 1981-1985, credit was available without interest and collateral arrangements. Some of the credit programs were the ff:
1. Biyayang Dagat (credit support for fishermen)
2. Bakahang Barangay –supported fattening of 40,000 head of cattle in farmer backyards
3. Masaganang Maisan, Maisagana, and Expanded Yellow Corn Program –supported 1.4 Million farmers through P4.7 Billion loans from 1975-1985
4. Gulayan sa Kalusugan and Pagkain ng Bayan Programs –provided grants and loans of P12.4 Million to encourage backyard and communal production of vegetables and improve nutrition of Filipino households
5. Kilusang Kabuhayan at Kaunlaran (KKK)—supported 25,000 entrepreneurial projects through P1.8 Billion and helping 500,000 beneficiaries
D. Decontrol Program
Price control polices were implemented on rice and corn to provide greater incentive to farmers to produce more. Deregulation of trading in commodities like sugar and coconut and agricultural inputs like fertilizer were done for more efficient marketing and trading arrangements.
II. Education Reform
Access to free education widened during the Marcos Administration. The biggest portion of the budget was allotted for Educational Programs (P58.7 Billion in 20 years). The literacy rate climbed from 72% in 1965 to 93% in 1985 and almost 100% in Metro Manila on the same year.
III. Agrarian Reform
Tenant’s Emancipation Act of 1972 or PD 27 was implemented without bloodshed. This was the first Land Reform Code our country. Since it was implemented until December 1985, 1.2 million farmers benefited, either they became the owner or leaseholder in more than 1.3 million hectares of rice and corn lands.
IV. Primary Health Care
The Primary Health Care (PHC) Program made medical care accessible to millions of Filipinos in the remotest barrios of the country. This program was even awarded by United Nations as the most effective and most responsive health program among the third world countries. With PHC life expectancy increased from 53.7 years in 1965 to 65 years in 1985. Infant mortality rate also declined from 73 deaths per 1,000 live births in 1965 to 58 in 1984.
V. Housing for the masses
Bagong Lipunan Improvement of Sites and Services (BLISS) Housing project had expanded the government’s housing program for the low-income group. Massive slum upgrading projects have improved to 14,000 lots in 1985 from 2,500 in 1976. The Tondo foreshore, for instance, is one of the biggest and most miserable slum colonies in Asia was transformed into a decent community. A total of 230,000 housing units were constructed from 1975-1985.
The laws on socialized housing were conceptualized by President Marcos through a series of legal issuances from the funding, the lending, mortgaging and to the collection of the loans. These are governed by the Home Mutual Development Fund (Pag-Ibig Fund), the Housing and Land Use Regulatory Board (HLURB) and the National Home Mortgage Finance which remain intact up to the present
VI. Energy Self-Reliance
Indigenous energy sources were developed like hydro, geothermal, dendrothermal, coal, biogas and biomass. The country became the first in Asia to use dendrothermal and in five years we became number two, next to US, in geothermal utilization. The extensive energy resource research and exploration and development resulted to reduction of oil imports from 100% in 1965 to 40% in 1985 and in the same year, more than 1,400 towns and cities were fully energized.
VII. Export Development
During 1985 textile and textile products like garments and embroideries, furniture and rattan products, marine products like prawns and milkfish, raw silk, shoes, dehydrated and fresh fruits were exported aside from the traditional export products like coconut, sugar, logs, lumber and veneer. The maritime industry was also dominated by Filipinos wherein 50,000 seamen were employed by various world shipping companies.
VIII. Labor Reform
The Labor code was promulgated which expanded the concerns of the Magna Carta of Labor to extend greater protection to labor, promote employment, and human resource development. The minimum wages of the workers were boosted through the guaranteed 13th month pay and cost of living allowances. Employment potentials of Filipinos were enhanced through skills training. During that time, there were 896,000 out-of-school youths and unemployed graduated from various training centers all over the country.
IX. Unprecedented Infrastructure Growth
The country’s road network had improved from 55,778 kilometers in 1965 to 77,950 in five years (1970), and eventually reached 161,000 kilometers in 1985. Construction of irrigation facilities was also done that made 1.5 million hectares of land irrigated and increased the farmer’s harvest and income. In addition, nationwide telecommunication systems—telephone systems, telex exchange too centers, and interprovincial toll stations were also built.
X. Political Reform
The structure of government established by President Marcos remains substantially the same except the change of name, inclusive of superficial features in laws, to give a semblance of change from that of President Marcos regime.
The only significant department that was abolished after the departure of President Marcos was the Department of Ministry of Human Settlements under Imelda Romualdez Marcos. It was dismantled but the functions were distributed to different offices.
XII. Fiscal Reform
Government finances were stabilized by higher revenue collections and loans from treasury bonds, foreign lending institutions and foreign governments.
XI. Peace and Order
In 1966, more than 100 important smugglers were arrested; in three years 1966-68 they arrested a total of 5,000. Military men involved in smuggling were forced to retire.
Peace and order significantly improved in most provinces however situations in Manila and some provinces continued to deteriorate until the imposition of martial law in 1972.
My original answer to this: https://joeam.com/2015/10/10/return-the-ill-gotten-wealth-first-bongbong-saangalingangperamo/#comment-140758
Any other people who know the reality behind Marcos’ North Korean style propaganda? The regime was shiny inside and rotten inside just like North Korea.
You may also comment here in my blog – some of the pro-Chinese commenters whom I deleted recently had similar profiles and even aliases, the same comment was posted by “Lim” as well who posted pro-Chinese stuff in my related blog article: http://filipinogerman.blogsport.eu/philippine-history-part-iii-nation-section-2-marcos-period/comment-page-1/#comment-1025 – but I prefer to summarize your inputs as one answer to “Paul” and link the subdiscussion on this blog.
“II. Agrarian Reform
Tenant’s Emancipation Act of 1972 or PD 27 was implemented without bloodshed. This was the first Land Reform Code our country. Since it was implemented until December 1985, 1.2 million farmers benefited, either they became the owner or leaseholder in more than 1.3 million hectares of rice and corn lands.”
Only partly right – the first agrarian reform was under President Manuel L. Quezon: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manuel_L._Quezon#Agrarian_reform
Unfortunately President Manuel Roxas was pro-haciendero, being one himself.
@Francis
Ho-hum. Choosing what to highlight, then consigning to fiction the evil deeds. What Marcos book did you pick this up from? Which writers do you consider authoritative to listen to? Tell me about your family, your parents. What school did you go to?
And that was terrible sentence construction/grammar in the first paragraph. Check if “invictus” has any sense at all in your statement. “Shunned his achievement..” Terrible.
Hey, lay off the guy. He’s just doing what he’s paid to do! ahahahaha
Sorry but Andrew you are sounding like GRP now – ridiculing opposing opinions instead of debunking arguments logically. I would go by showing the half-truths for what they are.
This is also essential for democratic culture – show that Quezon was the first to make a land reform, not Makoy, and that Cory improved on Marcos’ Land reform with CARP.
Marcos consolidated the security apparatus – Cory demilitarized the PNP, also good. Export development under Marcos = security forces heavily harrasing labor unions.
Perhaps Andrew feels like I do, it is not worth the time and energy responding to a concocted story that was planted here to mislead and distort, not discuss. It would be wasted energy.
It’s up to each person to respond in whatever way he or she wants.
I think painting Marcos as pure evil and Aquinos as living saints is the soil on which propagandists like that thrive. Mami Kawada Lover has a balanced view of both sides…
Finally the historical picture will show that while Marcos was somewhere in the dark grey shading, closer to middle than to black, Cory was on the light gray side, halfway between the middle and white. Her son is in the same shade, sometimes darker, sometimes lighter.
“D. Decontrol Program
Price control polices were implemented on rice and corn to provide greater incentive to farmers to produce more. Deregulation of trading in commodities like sugar and coconut and agricultural inputs like fertilizer were done for more efficient marketing and trading arrangements.”
Mami Kawada Lover wrote that price control dates back to Quezon.
Mary Grace once wrote that crony Benedicto benefitted heavily from the sugar thing. Finally let us not get started on the illegal logging that denuded mountains – Enrile…
I never said anything about price control. All I mentioned is that “low prices” don’t necessarily mean a good economy: again, just look at Japan or South Korea, or even Indonesia, whose economy is larger than the Philippines’ even though the rupiah is pretty worthless. Though there is some truth to what you said: prices were LOWER during Quezon’s time than in Marcos’ time. It helped that the peso was pegged to the dollar at that point, rather than the floating rate that was implemented later (I can’t remember if it was Macapagal or Marcos who implemented that). Also, contrary to what Marcos loyalists parrot, the exchange rate was never $1 = P2 during Marcos’ time; if I recall correctly, by the time of Macapagal it was already higher.
The exchange rate was fixed during Marcos time, like in Commie Warsaw pact countries.
And like in those countries – I visited some before the Wall fell – the black market rate reflecting the true (low) value of the peso was much much higher…
“X. Political Reform
The structure of government established by President Marcos remains substantially the same except the change of name, inclusive of superficial features in laws, to give a semblance of change from that of President Marcos regime.
The only significant department that was abolished after the departure of President Marcos was the Department of Ministry of Human Settlements under Imelda Romualdez Marcos. It was dismantled but the functions were distributed to different offices.”
Only partly true. The Sandiganbayan anti-corruption court was created by Marcos.
The Ombudsman was an invention of Cory. Besides, the Departments were all called Ministries, Marcos government was parliamentary for a while. I also do not know how many of Marcos ministries were simply adapted from previously existing Departments of the Republic. DFA became MFA and then later DFA again for example. Department of Science became Ministry of Science and later DOST with technology added.
“A. Green Revolution
Production of rice was increased through promoting the cultivation of IR-8 hybrid rice. In 1968 the Philippines became self-sufficient in rice, the first time in history since the American period. It also exported rice worth US$7 million.
B. Blue Revolution
Marine species like prawn, mullet, milkfish, and golden tilapia were being produced and distributed to farmers at a minimum cost. Today, milkfish and prawns contribute substantially to foreign exchange income.
C. Liberalized Credit
More than one thousand rural banks spread all over the country resulting to the accessibility of credit to finance purchase of agricultural inputs, hired labor, and harvesting expenses at very low interest rate. During 1981-1985, credit was available without interest and collateral arrangements. Some of the credit programs were the ff:
1. Biyayang Dagat (credit support for fishermen)
2. Bakahang Barangay –supported fattening of 40,000 head of cattle in farmer backyards
3. Masaganang Maisan, Maisagana, and Expanded Yellow Corn Program –supported 1.4 Million farmers through P4.7 Billion loans from 1975-1985
4. Gulayan sa Kalusugan and Pagkain ng Bayan Programs –provided grants and loans of P12.4 Million to encourage backyard and communal production of vegetables and improve nutrition of Filipino households
5. Kilusang Kabuhayan at Kaunlaran (KKK)—supported 25,000 entrepreneurial projects through P1.8 Billion and helping 500,000 beneficiaries”
The rice thing – IRRI in Los Baños was founded, but also made farmers dependent on the seedlings bred there. The other stuff I remember faintly – one of my ex-girlfriends was from the FFF (Federation of Free Farmers), an Ilocana from Pangasinan, Marcos loyalist.
We did not discuss that much, I had other things in mind with her and let her talk, but maybe I should have asked her why the NPA insurgency gained ground in Marcos times?
http://www.hss.de/southeastasia/en/philippines/our-work-in-the-philippines.html – eat THIS:
In line with the Philippine government’s vision and goals as enunciated in the Philippine Development Plan 2011-2016 and President Benigno S. Aquino III’s call for transformational leadership, HSF currently supports development interventions in the country leading to the promotion and protection of human rights, strengthening good governance and the rule of law, enhancing equal access to justice, and increasing access to financial and non-financial services for the poor.
http://www.hss.de/southeastasia/en/philippines/our-work-in-the-philippines/justice-sector-reform.html
In July 2011, the Department of Justice of the Philippines, the Hanns Seidel Foundation/Germany and the German Federal Foreign Office jointly embarked on the project, “Crafting a Modern Criminal Code for the Philippines.” The goal of the joint project is to contribute to good governance by means of conflict resolution through the provision of a legal framework for improvement in the disposition of justice. In order to achieve this goal, the project will undertake a series of activities led by the Criminal Code Committee towards the crafting of a modern criminal code and submit the same to the Office of the President for endorsement to Congress. AND also
Beginning in 2008, two program partnerships on human rights were forged – one with the Philippine National Police (PNP) through its Human Rights Affairs Office (HRAO) for the joint implementation of its Human Rights Development Program and two, for the implementation of the “Community-based Dialogue Sessions on Human Rights Promotion and Protection between the Armed Forces of the Philippines (AFP) and the Philippine National Police (PNP), and Civil Society Organizations and Local Communities” in cooperation with: Alternative Law Groups (ALG), Commission on Human Rights of the Philippines (CHRP), Ninoy and Cory Aquino Foundation (NCAF), PNP-HRAO, Armed Forces of the Philippines-Human Rights Office (AFP-HRO), and the Office of the Deputy Chief of Staff for Civil-Military Operations (AFP J7). HSF provides technical and financial assistance in the conduct of human rights training for police officers such as Trainers’ Training activities and deepening seminars on human rights, roll-out/echo seminars, community-based dialogue sessions on human rights promotion and protection, policy fora, research studies as well as the publication/production of training and information materials, operation manuals, among others.
Irineo,Francis was the one who mentioned long memories on mistakes as if killing thousands stealing billions are trivial.Sure he did all those things . Green revolution with rampant illega logging,punishing dollar salters without punishing themselves.access to credit that resulted to arrears because they never thought them how to farm and fish.Food terminal was good,tenements bliss good,lovebus double deckers good,south superhighway,north expressway,etc all good But not all are good the rest are the worst.
I also like that they have less generals then.
I’d comment something like “and yes, I know Godwin’s law” whenever I compared Marcos with Hitler. Even if someone rebutted by saying Godwin’s, which none did to me so far, I could mention that generations of Germany hardly revere the man since then.
I then ask those people if those leaders’ contributions are more important than the abuses the latter allowed. None replied or rebutted so far, so I guess I got through to them. 🙂
“generations of Germany hardly revere the man since then” Correct.
But because of three things, compare that to the Philippine situation:
1) The Nuremberg trials made an example of the Nazi leadership and forced the rest of the pack to fall in line with the Allied Powers, de-Nazification accomplished the rest.
2) Post-war West German democracy was a success story, politically, economically.
3) Post-war West Germany had and has political education programs. Every young German is taught what the Constitution means in school, is given a free pamphlet about it.
AND the social programs of Hitler were NOT dismantled after the war. In fact they were democratized and improved to become the “social market economy” system of Germany.
Because the builders of the Federal Republic of Germany realized that social injustice was the reason why Hitler was able to mobilize German people in the first place.
AND during German reunification, the Russians insisted that all Junker (rich landowner) land confiscations from 1945-1949 under military rule should not be turned back.
AND the https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verfassungsschutz went after all enemies of the new democratic order and still does to this day – it is the internal espionage agency, similar to MI5 but called “Federal Office for the Protection of the Constitution”. It does excellent work against Salafists and other Islamic agitators, regularly reporting to Parliament and the people in its yearly report, listing anti-democratic groups so people are aware of them…
AND the https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parteiverbot – prohibiting political parties that are in their spirit against the Constitution of the Federal Republic. This can be done only by the Federal Constitutional Court which is also the Supreme Court in Germany.
Communist and Nazi parties were banned in postwar Germany, they had to re-found themselves under new names and less radical objectives. But stirring them up and making people aware of them helped in discrediting the people in them, and their objectives.
AND finally, there is the so-called 5% rule for the Federal Parliament, 3% rule in state parliaments, which only permits parties with at least 5% or 3% or the vote to have seats.
The small parties in the Federal Parliament of pre-WW2 Germany only caused chaos…
Every new political party in Germany’s Federal Parliament first had to pass the test of being democratic before it became OK for established political parties to go into a coalition with them. The Greens when they came into the scene in the early 1980s.
The “Republicans” – a Tea Party type of group with Neonazi leanings, never made the 5% hurdle federally. At the state level yes, but the Christian Democrats refused to go into a coalition with them. CDU/CSU are similar to the US Republicans in political ideology.
The PDS – Democratic Socialist Party is strong in East Germany, they are the democratic successor of the East German Socialist SED. Some coalitions between Social Democrats – similar to American Democrats in ideology – and PDS in East German state parliaments. Federally they are excluded from National Security issues and committees that discuss highly sensitive matters. Some of the reformist East German Communists are in that party.
AND finally – West Germany only was under partial sovereignty until 1990. Operational sovereignty – my own term – was restored in 1955 only. No German army allowed until then by the Allies, what became the Bundesnachrichtendienst under Major General Gehlen (Federal News Office is the literal translation of the German CIA equivalent) who ran Hitler’s Eastern European spy network was under unofficial OSS supervision until 1955.
The Allies until the 2+4 treaty had bases in Germany – some of them now NATO bases like Ramstein which was and still is a major staging point for US Air Force Middle East stuff – and reserved the right to regain control over Germany just in case the Nazis came back.
Neonazis used that status as propaganda, to say that Germany was an occupied country – and some lunatic Neonazis still do to this day. But in 45 years German democracy has become mature and stable, has integrated ex-Communists and is dealing with Islamists.
BUT was NOT yet mature in 1968, when the children of Nazis went on the street to protest against what the generation of their parents did, and shook up old Nazi networks in institutions like universities, military and police. The Baader-Meinhof gang came from the lunatic fringe of the 68ers, who were similar in dress and mannerisms to the US hippies of the same days but with a different political agenda. The Greens were the other offspring…
ALSO the 68ers managed to break the wall of silence about what the Nazis did back then, 23 years after the dictatorship. Those who had experienced the dictatorship came out to argue against the revisionists who came exactly with the same kind of arguments young Marcos neo-loyalists are doing now. TV shows were made with old people talking about what really happened – and mind you it was not easy, some were publicly ridiculed and called liars. The widow of Count Stauffenberg who made the coup attempt against Hitler in 1944 was my grandma’s neighbor – she finally got the military pension of her husband in the 1970s. Each time she went to get it before that, she was told her husband was a traitor. The 1944 coup and many things only became part of the curriculum in the 1970s.
Stauffenberg was played by Tom Cruise in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valkyrie_%28film%29 . My mother grew up with some of the children of 1944 coup officers. She showed me the grave of one of them on one of my Berlin visits to her.
All interesting tidbits you shared, Irineo. Much appreciated. 🙂
If anything, the Germans (not Germany as I thought I corrected earlier in my phone LOL) acknowledged those issues — their history — despite the embarrassment, pain and suffering they’d endure. I “must” admire them for dealing with those things head-on, learning from their past, and making efforts to better their stuff.
Might take 50 or even a 100 years more before our country reaches the stage that Germany and other prosperous countries are in now, but…so be it.
Raissa Robles mentioned in her blog – her sister was my mother’s best student of German and is her friend to this day while her father got me out of Pasay city jail in my activist days, very Filipino thing kakilala kapitbahay and all – that Germany has a documentation center for Nazi atrocities that people can visit, in Berlin. It even has a monument, looks like a graveyard, for the Jews killed in the Holocaust. If that work had not been done – painful as it was and it caused deep rifts in many families including that of my mother, yes my grandfather was a Nazi too, a businessman who benefitted from the sale of Jewish retail stores to “Aryans” – then Germany might have slid back into a new dictatorship.
Der Schoß aus dem es kroch ist immer noch fruchtbar – the womb out of which it came out is still fertile, that saying of German democratic activists is applicable to the Philippines today. And especially since some Marcos loyalist trolls are also pro-CHINESE.
Germany has a mainly Lutheran tradition. Martin Luther did not like Catholic confession and abolished it as hypocrisy. Lutherans have the tradition of in-sich-gehen – going into oneself, examining why one has sinned in order to sin no more. I have seen how Joe as a Lutheran has obviously been through this process several times and has reviewed his approach, changed it based on lessons learned. This is definitely a strength.
Filipino are Catholic, forgive too easily. They do not forgive without forgetting which is better. They are often in a state of denial. Many do not think, many do not discuss which is like Edgar Lores mentioned a form of collective thinking and arriving at a shared reality.
And they are unable to learn from the sins of their parents. Notable exceptions like Senator Gerry Roxas and Ninoy Aquino are the exceptions – their fathers were both Japanese collaborators and President Roxas sold out to the Americans of the day with the Laurel-Langley agreement and reversed the agrarian reforms of Quezon for his class. Richard von Weizsäcker, German president in the 1980s, thought a lot about the role of his father as Hitler’s foreign minister – and learned from his father’s mistakes, as shown by a speech in the 1980s which he made about Germany’s responsibility to correct the past. Thinking, discussing, lessons learned, humility in admitting even the mistakes of parents – those are German virtues which Filipinos could learn from. Because if Filipinos do learn, they can be there much faster than in 50 years. But if they do not learn, they never will be.
Sorry, it was: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_von_Weizs%C3%A4cker – Carl Friedrich was his physicist brother:
Weizsäcker, who was known as a great speaker,[45] delivered his most famous speech in 1985, marking the 40th anniversary of the end of the Second World War in Europe on 8 May 1945.[46][47] This came at a difficult political time in West Germany. The country was caught up in a debate whether the denial of the Holocaust should be criminalised. At the same time, chancellor Helmut Kohl had accepted an invitation to visit a congress by the Silesian association of expellees which was put under the motto “Silesia is ours!” (“Schlesien ist unser!”). This seemed to contradict the official position of the federal diet and government, so that Kohl needed to urge for the motto to be changed.[48][49]
It was originally planned that United States President Ronald Reagan should take part in the memorial event in the Bundestag, shifting the emphasis from remembering the past to highlighting West Germany in its partnership with the Western Bloc. On Weizsäcker’s strong urgance, the day was remembered without Reagan, who visited West Germany several days earlier instead, surrounding the G7-summit in Bonn.[49] Reagan’s visit nevertheless sparked controversy, especially in the United States. In an attempt to reproduce the gesture made by Kohl and French President François Mitterrand a year earlier at Verdun, the chancellor and Reagan were set to visit the military cemetery in Bitburg. This raised critique since the cemetery was also the last resting place for several members of the Waffen-SS.[48][50]
It was in this climate that von Weizsäcker addressed parliament on 8 May 1985. Here, he articulated the historic responsibility of Germany and Germans for the crimes of Nazism. In contrast to the way the end of the war was still perceived by a majority of people in Germany at the time, he defined 8 May as a “day of liberation”.[51] Weizsäcker pointed out the inseparable link between the Nazi takeover of Germany and the tragedies caused by the Second World War.[46] In a passage of striking boldness, he took issue with one of the most cherished defenses of older Germans. “When the unspeakable truth of the Holocaust became known at the end of the war,” he said, “all too many of us claimed they had not known anything about it or even suspected anything.”[51]…
Weizsäcker’s speeched was praised both nationally and internationally.[54] The New York Times called it a “sober message of hope to the uneasy generations of young West Germans”.[51] The president of the Central Council of Jews in Germany, Werner Nachmann, thanked Weizsäcker for his strong words,[55] as did Karl Ibach, a former member of the German Resistance, who called his speech a “moment of glory (Sternstunde) of our republic”.[56] Weizsäcker was however criticised for some of his remarks by members of his own party. Lorenz Niegel, a politician of the sister party CSU, who had not taken part in the ceremony, objected the term “day of liberation”, referring to it instead as a “day of deepest humiliation”.[57] The Green Party was also absent during the speech, choosing instead to visit Auschwitz.[57] A year later, Green politician Petra Kelly called the speech “correct, but not more than self-evident”, pointing to speeches president Gustav Heinemann had held during his presidency.[58] The harshest criticism came from the Federation of Expellees, whose president Herbert Czaja, while thanking the president for highlighting the expellees’ fate,[59] criticized his remark that “conflicting legal claims must be subordinated under the imperative of reconciliation”.[60]
The speech was later released on vinyl and sold around 60,000 copies. Two million written copies of its text were distributed globally, translated into thirteen languages, with 40,000 being sold in Japan alone. This does not include prints of the speech in newspapers, such as the New York Times, which reproduced it unabridged.[54]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernst_von_Weizs%C3%A4cker – now consider who President Richie – that is what we irreverently called him in German schools, I was there starting 82 – had as a father, this was not just someone who took part he was an active supporter:
Weizsäcker joined the German Foreign Service in 1920. He was appointed as Consul to Basel in 1921, as Councillor in Copenhagen in 1924 and was stationed in Geneva from 1927. He became head of the department for disarmament in 1928, and was appointed as envoy to Oslo in 1931 and to Bern in 1933. In 1936 as Ambassador to Bern, Weizsäcker played a key role in stripping Thomas Mann of his German citizenship.[2] He became Director of the Policy Department at the Foreign Office in 1937 and the following year he was appointed as Staatssekretär (“State Secretary”) — the second ranking official after the Foreign Minister in the German Foreign Office.
He was encouraged by his superior to join the ruling NSDAP party, which he did in 1938, and he was also awarded an honorary rank in the SS. In 1938, Weizsäcker was opposed to the general trend in German foreign policy of attacking Czechoslovakia out of the fear that it might cause a general war that Germany would lose; Weizsäcker had no moral objections to the idea of destroying Czechoslovakia and was only opposed to the timing of the attack.[3] …
Weizsäcker was arrested on 25 July 1947 in Nuremberg and was put on trial in the Ministries Trial, also known as the Wilhelmstrasse Trial, after the location of the German Foreign Office in Berlin. The Ministries Trial was one of 12 trials conducted by Nuremberg Military Tribunals in the U.S. occupation zone. These American military tribunals started before and finished during the Berlin blockade confrontation with the Soviets and proceeded without participation of the USSR; they were also much milder in conduct and outcome than the first series of war crimes trials in 1946. No European judges were involved in the trial. Weizsäcker’s supporters claimed that he had been closely associated with the anti-Nazi resistance and a moderate force at the Foreign Office during the war; Winston Churchill called his sentence a “deadly error”.[16]
Weizsäcker was charged with active cooperation with the deportation of French Jews to Auschwitz, as a crime against humanity. Weizsäcker, with the assistance of his son, the future President of unified Germany, Richard von Weizsäcker, who appeared as his assistant defence counsel (Richard was a law student during the trial), claimed that he had no knowledge of the purpose for which Auschwitz had been designed and believed that Jewish prisoners would face less danger if deported to the East.
In 1949, Weizsäcker was found guilty and sentenced to 7 years in prison, but the same year, the sentence was reduced to five years. In October 1950, after three years and three months of detention, he obtained an early release from prison in Landsberg after a new examination of his case by the Legislative Affairs Office of the US High Commissioner for Germany, John J. McCloy.[17] Weizsäcker subsequently published his memoirs, written in prison, in which he portrayed himself as a supporter of the resistance.
Now who got into trouble with the Chinese for comparing the Spratley with Czechoslovakia? Noynoy Aquino.
Grandson of a Japanese collaborator, and son of a great man who made up for that.
It’s the point-and-click thing, Kian. Some millenials weren’t raised with patience, not taught to analyze, no time for study, just copy and paste and here comes the term paper. Gimme this, gimme that. Ironically, the new prosperity itself is the fuel that feeds the fire of the Neo Marcos diehards. They think Duterte—the new Marcos—will make the problems of the world disappear with a simple click of the trigger. If American youth are attached to guns, Filipino youth suckle on their gadgets. Get on with it, bring back the Marcoses for all I care, now back to my phone. Please.
Sigh, so I gather.
Off-topic and speaking of Duterte, I “heard” (online) that he’ll finally declare his presidency at least by tomorrow. Should make the presidential contest a tad interesting if ever.
Kahit isoli pa nya yang nakaw na kayamanan,wala pa din syang karapatanaging pangulo.
Fair is fair. I agree with this demand for the son to return the ill-gotten wealth of the father. Let us also demand from the children of the other Philippine president to return the ill-gotten wealth of their parents. In addition, let us demand from the children of all politicians who stole from the government to return their ill-gotten wealth. Nobody should be singled out, and nobody should be spared. My simple mind says this would be good for my country and my people, the Filipino people. But that’s just me.
This piece was written with the objective of nudging people, specially the President and everyone who knows the truth not to take Bongbong sitting down. The alarm should be sounded at this evil that threatens our country.
I am optimistic that dominant media will never take the side of the Marcoses as they were amongst those that suffered under them.
Before anyone gets any idea of what I really am, I would like to state that I am a certified Noytard. It’s on record in a number of blogs even before the 2010 election that I am a Noynoy Aquino supporter and avid defender. Still am.
Still, it puzzled me to read Andrew’s alarm “at this evil that threatens our country.”.
Why is Bongbong Marcos ‘an evil that threatens our country’?
As far as I can see or read in this thread apart from some rumors mentioned by Mami Kawada Lover is his having lied about about that Wharton college degree. I know lying is a sin, but by the life of me I can’t see how’s that going to be an “evil that threatens our country”.
For me, there is one material character issues involved. He exhibits no understanding or compassion for those harmed during his father’s term, which suggests he could do the same. Beyond that, I don’t like his flamboyant style and tendency to make big, bold declarations that puts his thinking above and ahead of the thinking of others, as occurred regarding the BBL. Years of hard, earnest work went down the tubes because of his desire to showboat. He does not exhibit the calm, rational bearing of a diplomat or leader of ALL peoples.
In short, Bongbong exhibits no empathy. Alas, same as some of those who use needlessly labels such as noytard, yellow army, etc. towards those who disagree.
Yes, that nails it exactly.
” big, bold declarations that puts his thinking above and ahead of the thinking of others, as occurred regarding the BBL.” hey, most of his stuff is similar to my BBL article here.
For all we know, his staff might have read it and modified it a little bit… Just like his father published his Tadhana book on Philippine history, but had my father write it by making him an “offer he could not refuse”. My father said Marcos was never intelligent, just cunning.
Bert, Bongbong will be #1 Marcos revisionist. The day he sits in the VP or the Pres’ chair, as a nation, Philppines will be telling the world hey it’s OK, lies are OK, retaining plundered wealth is OK, my father’s deed of which I did not partake are, are OK. He will be teaching Filipino kids everything is OK.
chempo, what you’re saying is just impression. I know Marcos the father is evil and so also the other presidents and politicians who stole our money, or those who ordered the killing of their political opponents, or killed people without the benefit of due process. Still they were voted into office by the Filipino electorates and thus, as you were saying, gave the world and our kids a wrong impression which I would agree.
Bongbong Marcos the son lied about his school degree. I’m not sure if he’s evil enough and so I asked the question.
I like Bert ‘s point here,
why cherry-pick when you can paint a broad brush, to include all Presidents (which means also their family, immediate or extended, or both)?
Then afterwards, play ‘One of These Things (is Not Like The Others)’.
I’ve deleted the photos you put in. They are just too offensive to me, personally. I’ve also deleted Mercedes’ comment because it would be out of context without the photos. I really don’t like racial depictions. We Americans have been quite good at that historically, and . . . like battle gore . . . I don’t like having to re-live unpleasant realities in a blog intended to be respectful.
Roger that, Joe.
The one with Pres. Bush actually had a back story that was interesting. But you’re right, too off topic. But in a round about way it was a perfect segue to mercedes’ comment. Ireneo would’ve liked it.
Hahaha, put it in Irineo’s blog then. ahaha
LOL! Not the cartoon but the segue itself, because it covered so many levels– the cartoon w/out mercedes’ comment, isn’t as humorous.
Thanks for leaving the Thomasite and soldier cartoon though. I had to Google Thomasite, but thought that was a great synopsis of American policy now and then– and how American backed dictators have failed to take advantage of this approach (which another level of the initial choice).
With Gloria there was the hope that she would be like her father in a good way…
If one judges by the father, Mar Roxas is promising, by his grandfather he is not.
Gloria actually had a lot going for her. Training as an economist (an MA from Ateneo and a PhD from UP no less), well-liked Senator and later Vice President/Secretary of the DSWD. Gloria started out well but I guess the power that came with the position corrupted her.
http://filipinogerman.blogsport.eu/philippine-history-part-iii-nation-section-3-post-marcos-period/
The dark side of the Force… She was appointed by Cory because of her economic capabilities.
Gloria Macapagal-Arroyo, economist and daughter of former President Macapagal, was appointed Assistant Secretary to the Department of Trade and Industry in 1987, and Undersecretary in 1989.
Two OICs that were appointed by Cory are Binay and Duterte…
The Marcos trolls are on my blog now – those who wish to argue with them may do so there. But please only with Paul, not with Lim whose double post I will delete. If you are interested in debuking their historical myths, please help me do so in that place.
I will not be the first to answer them… I am tired of being so alone in my blog and working on rewriting Philippine history in a simple way by myself. Even manong Sonny and Karl who helped me start writing the history are ningas-kugon, I most say, uncle and nephew.
Although I must thank Karl for sending me some important stuff recently by mail in another matter. But the lack of cooperation and participation, lack of committedness is one reason why I am not in the Philippines anymore. And a main reason why things do not progress.
So let us see how patriotic everybody here is – I want to hear your counter-opinions to their story of Marcos being a great reformer: http://filipinogerman.blogsport.eu/philippine-history-part-iii-nation-section-2-marcos-period/comment-page-1/#comment-1025
Or comment right here and I will summarize the result in my blog including a link:
Can’t get in to your site, it’s been loading since er, 45 years ago…internet so slow, posting a single comment takes 25 years…ewww…
Sometimes that site is slow, sometimes it is down…
But the volunteer team of blogsport usually does good work in fixing things.
Ok, Bert, you have a point there, actually we can do it simultaneously, kinda like multi-tasking…return their ill gotten wealth, the welcome and pabaon system of GMA for incoming and outgoing AFP chiefs of staff, the plundered wealth of Marcos, Arroyo, Estrada, Binay and the PDAF plunderers. No exceptions, no singling out. Rules must be applied to all. But on Marcos VP candidacy, NEVER again! Please!!
You have to start with one. The weakness in going after the first emboldened the next. The Nuremberg trials in Germany were criticized by pro-Nazi lawyers for being “extralegal”, but were justified by higher moral precepts. The perpetrators hanged or life sentenced as a warning to those still there not to do the same things. The little Hitlers that were still in Germany at that time fell in line with the Allies and did not dare organize their “werevolves”.
The failure to get Marcos money – and I would have seen something like the Nuremberg trials, even if it had been unconstitutional, to hell with that in such a situation – was one weakness of the February revolution and what followed. Just get the money would have been enough – nobody had to do what WE from the NDF (to the readers who don’t know, I was KM) planned to do with all corrupt politicians. It would have been a party at the Quirino grandstand, hanging them all in front of the people and Jose Rizal watching.
https://scontent-hkg3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xat1/v/t1.0-9/12122485_1623629961223041_2897059489142145374_n.jpg?oh=6db4975b8dbc02bf530ffde5a18bbfdc&oe=56864CFF
photo sharing failed again, how do you do it, Joe?
Just copy the html address for the photo into the comment box.
Bro ako din I dont believe in sins of the father stuff. but Bongbong is denying it remember the lets move on noong gma times,ganun ang gusto mangyari ni bbm.kalimutan ang nakaraan.ano ganun na lang.
Yung school records nya di ko napanood yung news clip, I know news outfits edit stuff like Jun Abaya’s not fatal traffic …delete some lines and you are the laughing stock of the world.But if he still says he graduated from Oxford he is a lunatic.
Post was for Bert
Very interesting analysis on the profiles of the neo Marcos loyalists. I guess in a way they are rebelling and being a rebel is going against the mainstream history of the evils of martial law.
Correct. It is their form of expressing disgust at their present conditions but unfortunately they are falling into a trap. Ignorance and desperation is a dangerous combination indeed.
And there is always the messianic thing that someone will come along and fix everything for them magically. That eases them of a lot of burden of having to work and study hard.
I cringed a little bit when you went Ad Hominem on these Neo-Marcos loyalists. But you did shed some light. I am a post edsa baby and see lots of these Marcos lies in my social media feed. I had to unfollow/mute a friend because he keeps posting marcos stuffs with a monopoly-of-truth attitude. He teaches History in a university and I couldn’t figure out just how a history graduate can ignore history and support Marcos. While typing this comment, I realized he does come from a broken family, abandoned by his father at an early age.
I was delighted, however, to know that he no longer supports Marcos. Took him 3 years. Those seminars he attended, associations with respectable historians, made him more objective. He now teaches his students what really happened back then. There is hope.
I wonder why that is. Rebelling against truth and logic and the heroism of their people. They must be very empty of satisfaction or achievement, or they expect democracy is supposed to be a rose garden and are tired of its noise. Or they have mean streaks. I can’t figure it out.
Probably AOTA (all of the above), Joe. That and maybe they’re tired of their expectations not being met. Happens to anyone, after all.
Incidentally, some of those observations led me to believe that people are looking for a role model rather than a leader; that such a person might give them a reason, a symbol, to look up to. To think that those people have “it” within themselves all along — if they just tried and kept at it.
That’s very interesting, role model instead of leader. So it is not surprising to see those who support Duterte or Marcos becoming a threatening or intimidating presence in social media, and those supporting Poe/Escudero being calculating, and those supporting Roxas being less brash or even quiet. I want to work with that for a while, as it seems to fit. Those supporting Binay are fluid of values, I might add. Adapting to any situation by making stuff up. 🙂
*******
You’ve got something there. We are shiftshapers mirroring our model.
What about us who analyze?
*****
Same, I think. So the question becomes are there more rational or irrational voters in the Philippines.
I’ve thought for some time that we are mainly talking to ourselves, as we are all of like character and mind, analytical and rational, with some quirks of character that set us apart.
I’ve not figured out how to get across the great divide that separates the “rationalists” from the “emotionalists”. The emotionalists are locked into preservation of esteem and peer pressure. Sense seems not to work.
It is even more complicated. You also have, like Mami Kawada Lover noted, real Noytards who ignore the mistakes of President Aquino and Cory. Just like you have Dutertetards and those who support him for a reason.
So you have rationalists and emotionalists on all sides. I would think that Mar and Duterte have the most rationalists on their side. There are even mixtures of rationalists and emotionalists like I often am, but I find my stand once emotions have cooled down.
Given how Duterte supporters act online (from what I have observed at least), I think only Roxas really has lots of “rational” supporters (Robredo’s supporters seem to fall under “emotional” ones as well). Duterte supporters also have their emotionalism, and they don’t really care much about the long-term as long as “discipline is instilled”. Extrajudicial killings, apart from being a pandora’s box of human rights violations, is also a makeshift solution, and I don’t think it could work in the long-term. There’s the baggage that comes with it: foreign and local investors might flee, chaos and anarchy might instead arise instead of “discipline”, etc. It’s basically a slippery slope.
That’s pretty much in line with my observations. True about Robredo fans being emotional, or emotive at least.
“Extrajudicial killings, apart from being a pandora’s box of human rights violations, is also a makeshift solution, and I don’t think it could work in the long-term. There’s the baggage that comes with it: foreign and local investors might flee, chaos and anarchy might instead arise instead of “discipline”, etc. It’s basically a slippery slope.” Davao proves that investory are not fleeing – they would rather not have the criminals disturbing business.
I admit to some sympathy for Duterte – after all his methods are similar to what we in the KM wanted to do – talk to the people, involve them, and eliminate those who are against. But I admit it is a Pandora’s box in the hands of the wrong person – not everybody is as cold-bloodedly controlled as Duterte is. But in place of eliminating people, you need an effective, fast, and incorruptible police and justice system. That is something that still does not exist in the Philippines. How then do you clean up? Because letting the law be broken all the time does not make people really believe in it. I hope Mar Roxas adresses this…
I respect your opinion (I’ve rarely ever talked to someone who likes Duterte who speaks eloquently and gives grounded arguments), but in my case, it’s better to be safe than sorry. Given how Arroyo and Binay were originally considered to be fine but later corrupted, I’m wary of candidates who this early have shown that they will put human rights second. Breaking the law (vigilantism) in order to police those breaking the law doesn’t seem right. The end does not justify the means.
As for the police issue, I think Duterte could make a good DILG secretary. That way, he could unleash his knowledge without putting the presidency in jeopardy. If we completely put him out of the equation, one way is to have an effective PNP chief who cannot be bribed.
I am able to talk to some Duterte supports on Facebook, but then again I am an ex-KM activist with practice in talking to the masa – including union teach-ins, one with the late Crispin Beltran of KMU, a man I greatly admire for consistency of beliefs and actions.
Mar Roxas has done a lot of good work in improving the PNP. There are also projects with the Munich Hanns-Seidel foundation to improve police and justice. After all, Munich and Bavaria are known for their effective police and justice system – which they managed to democratize succesfully after the Nazi period while not losing any of its feared effectivity. The are sharing their experience in curbing police abuses after WW2 with the PNP:
http://www.hss.de/southeastasia/en/philippines/our-work-in-the-philippines.html
The Foundation currently undertakes the following major programs, to wit:
(1) Support for Public Administration
1.1 Democracy, Human Rights and the Rule of Law
1.2 Justice Sector Reform
1.3 Good Governance
(2) Micro-finance and Micro-enterprise Development
(3) Support for Follow-up Activities
3.1 Co-operative Strengthening Program
3.2 ASEAN-EU Cooperation
Project activities are implemented in cooperation with:
Ninoy and Cory Aquino Foundation (NCAF)
Philippine National Police-Human Rights Affairs Office (PNP-HRAO)
Armed Forces of the Philippines-Human Rights Office (AFP-HRO) and AFP Deputy Chief of Staff for Civil Military Operations (J7)
Alternative Law Groups (ALG)
Commission on Human Rights of the Philippines (CHRP)
People Power Volunteers for Reform (PPVR)
Department of Justice (DOJ)
PinoyME Consortium
National Cooperative Movement (NCM)
Ramos Peace and Development Foundation (RPDEV)
“True about Robredo fans being emotional, or emotive at least.” – JoeAm
Robredo did say, I am not my husband, don’t vote for me because of sympathy, vote for me because of what I can do to uplift our country, or words to that effect.
And I think more and more people will start to do that. The initial reaction, even in the room when she was announced as VP candidate, was highly charged, emotionally.
I wish we could have articles like this in Filipino, so more people could be informed.
We’ve had articles translated before. It takes a volunteer to do it.
You sir must have traveled with the thomasites !!!!!!!
It’s how we’ve traveled. There’s no other countries that do this. It is a very American travel arrangement.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W._Edwards_Deming#Work_in_Japan
This blog thread is about Marcos, so if there is a point to be made in this line of commentary, I’m missing it.
Sorry, Joe, just thought it was a funny comparison– rich, power dictator’s son out of touch with the world, and reality. It wasn’t intended to be racist.
In Googling today, I did find this, I’m still trying to figure out if Bong-Bong Marcos is featured in this book,
Yes, I understand, it was a good intellectual point. But it is too emotional . . . for me . . . it does fall into the realm of a gory picture, showing what was a factual truth, but too much for me to take. Carry on . . . 🙂
Can’t understand why the pictures were deleted ????
Because racism offends me. I don’t want to look at it. I would not allow a sex scene here, of rape or bondage, nor a video of ISIS beheading someone.
Tell that to ur fellow militia man !!!!
I did. He understands.
Nothing was ever proven in any court, anywhere.
About Marcos crimes and loot? Why don’t you stick around and elaborate so that we can have a discussion about that. I am under the impression that the Philippines is formally working to retrieve money taken from the Philippines, so there must be some official cases. But the point is interesting. Have no legal cases been filed against Marcos? If not, why not?
If I recall correctly, Ferdinand and Imelda have been charged with several cases in the past. In some of them they were acquitted but in at least one Imelda was actually sentenced, though I can’t remember why she never served her prison term. Ferdinand was acquitted of them all… because he died before he could be sentenced, and apparently under US law people who are under trial are automatically acquitted when they die.
@Matthew Guerrero
Susmaryosep.
There are two links inside this previous article on the Marcos loot:
That one Monet painting alone is worth P1B plus.
And how much has the PCGG recovered to date? Please educate yourself properly. What news sources are you reading?
So they are already aquitted in your eyes. Says what court?
Maybe basketball court.
Watch the youtube below.
What and learn.
mary me kasama na tayo sa typo yung iba recovered na eh.
Welcome to the club, trying not worry about the typos now…this gadget is giving me a headache…the other ran out of juice
There should have been Nuremberg-style trials after the February revolution, but in relation to corruption and geared towards confiscating ill-gotten wealth.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuremberg_trials#Criticism – the Nuremberg trials were criticized heavily from a legalistic point of view:
Associate Supreme Court Justice William O. Douglas charged that the Allies were guilty of “substituting power for principle” at Nuremberg. “I thought at the time and still think that the Nuremberg trials were unprincipled,” he wrote. “Law was created ex post facto to suit the passion and clamor of the time.”[
Finally they were justified by a higher moral code above the letter of the law by many.
Wo gehobelt wird, fallen Späne is my opinion on the Nuremberg trials – and the jailing of Gloria Arroyo. Where you plane down wood, you will have sawdust. President Aquino saw that his mother’s reconciliation policies failed, and is right to go after people even at the risk of being questioned by legalists. In extremis, extrema – in extreme times, extreme measures must be taken. A Latin phrase used in the last chapter of the Fili.
To think PNoy attempted a similar thing towards GMA via a Truth Commission, only for it to be shot down at the Supreme Court. A sure bet that those for Marcos will resist any similar effort.
If the Allies had followed the US Supreme Court and the Associate Justice I mentioned had been followed, who knows how German history would have gone.
The worst were executed after Nuremberg, some (Heß) jailed for life, some just jailed.
-32 cases pa lang 900 cases to go.
Di pala pinanood ang video,what and learn mister!
Imelda was convicted in a case here, albeit it was overturned by the Supreme Court. Meanwhile, the Marcoses lost a case in Honolulu and in Singapore.
Just an FYI.
What and learn of the True, The Good and the Beautiful.
Cherry picking, as usual.
How about this ones?
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-24984558
http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/563173/sandigan-orders-forfeiture-of-imelda-marcos-jewel-collection
Konting isip naman, bok. anong “what and learn”? see the quality of these neo-Marcos loyalists?
Pagbigyan mo na ganyan din kami ni Mary eh typo king and queen. Joke lang.
what and learn daw hahaha
Irineo, rememember when RHiro recommended this book?
One thing I like with RHiro,he was anti Marcos.
https://www.scribd.com/mobile/documents/100984052/embed?access_key=key-1dka4cg8qcrkkeuw8n8v
Kung saan na lang napupunta mga comment ko. MY BAD.
At least you are not BERY BAD…
Yeah, I don’t berry pick.
Highlighting what Archbishop Villegas said in today’s Inquirer:
http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/729879/top-prelate-to-voters-pray-dont-elect-corrupt-bets
“Pope Francis said corruption is the biggest cross that is being carried by the Filipino nation.”
“Sinners can be forgiven but you cannot forgive the corrupt because they do not ask for forgiveness. They are not bothered by their actions. Let’s try to keep the Pope’s message in mind,” he said in Filipino.
“If we say that corruption is one of our nation’s deepest scars and heaviest cross, and if candidates already have a history of corruption, let’s think twice, thrice, a hundred times before voting for them,” he said also in Filipino.
They have not been forgiven!
I had the same argument with my elder sister.
She was sharing Marcos propaganda in her FB account. When I pointed out to her that the sources of those are not verified and shared some links such as ms. raissa’s blog, she retorted that traditional media are biased against Marcos.
Her main point of contention was she experienced Martial law years. She was born 1970. To that I have no response as I was born 8 years later. As expected, she shared that life back then was better in terms of peace and order. And goes on to enumerate Marcos projects that to her were only wasted by the Cory Aquino government because doing so can only enhance Marcos legacy. And the cases filed against the Marcoses were not won or has not prospered. That just supports the idea that the Marcoses didn’t really do wrong.
I am for justice. I am for continued development of the Philippines. I am very much inclined to vote for Mar and Leni in 2016.
But sadly, I feel I am not capable of convincing others to support such causes. And the more I tried to convince them, the more I turn them off away because I can not articulately defend my anti-Marcos and pro-daang matuwid beliefs.
Facebook is the new battleground of propaganda warfare. I hope we can counter the revisionist campaign there.
“As expected, she shared that life back then was better in terms of peace and order. ”
Of course it was better in terms of peace and order. Curfew in the beginning, everybody had to be home by midnight and not be on the streets. All private guns and private armies were dismantled, no private guns allowed at all. But that concentrated the guns with the military and the Constabulary, who often abused them against civilians. Rich kid got riddled with bullets by PC soldiers, rumoredly. Because they felt slighted by how he overtook them.
And I have written a posting below what the true costs of many Marcos projects were, which were conducted with enormous ruthlessness. Tiwi geothermal plant destroyed my father’s home village in Albay. Plant security guards terrorized the populace. Carelessness caused sulfurous water to mix with fresh groundwater, destroying the fields of some of my uncles. Later the hot springs resort there was ruined because the plant sucked too much water. Export processing zones, where laborers had no rights at all. It was rotten underneath.
For me, you don’t have to convince them or even anyone. You can acknowledge those people’s pieces and then say yours, especially if yours maybe reaches into their values.
The peace-and-order-during-Martial-Law thing you mentioned is a “popular” example I’ve seen many people use….nay, parrot. I tell them that while great that Martial Law created peace and order, did it do anything towards those in government and/or the military who abused their positions. Additionally, I ask them how to explain why others gave negative and painful experiences during that period — especially when they did nothing wrong other than being at the wrong place at the wrong time.
(And kudos to those people who shared their painful experiences so others would at least know.)
For the so-called millenials, I also suggested for them to look up Egypt during Morsi’s Martial Law. That’ll give them a more recent example.
Lastly, I don’t worry if any of them aren’t convinced because only THEY can convince themselves. I just give them some things to ponder, then let them decide.
Trusting this helps. And thanks for the discussion, everyone. 🙂
Marcos the VP candidate taking it up for the young generation and sitting right behind him, in the seats of honor, Estrada, Imelda Marcos and Enrile! His best representatives of the young generation? Painful.
Again, It might be good to understand Filipino politics to listen to Mabini more than 100 years ago: “The Revolution failed because it was badly directed, because its leader won his post not with praiseworthy but with blameworthy acts, because instead of employing the most useful men of the nation he jealously discarded them. Believing that the advance of the people was no more than his own personal advance, he did not rate men according to their ability, character and patriotism but according to the degree of friendship or kinship binding him to them; and wanting to have favorites willing to sacrifice themselves for him, he showed himself lenient to their faults. Because he disdained the people, he could not but fall like an idol of wax melting in the heat of adversity. May we never forget such a terrible lesson learned at the cost of unspeakable sufferings.”
The hidden wealth is not hidden by a stroke of genius or luck, it his hidden because of “favorites willing to sacrifice themselves for him, he showed himself lenient to their faults”. Not only Marcos but the “political” network around him should be exposed, explained, eradicated. In this light it might not be coincidence that Estrada, Enrile and Imelda were sitting there.
Joeam wants us to be positive, solution oriented. All I can say is EDUCATION. Who still knows Mabini, who still knows Marcos and who know still understands their motivations, their ways of thinking? What went wrong in the parental guidance and the schooling system of the last 50 years? A catch 22? Stealing the coffers empty weakened the economy, forced parents out of the country, best teachers out of the schools, resulting in sub-optimal education, resulting in less prepared citizens, slower growth, more corrupt leaders? We have to cut this cycle in as many places as possible.
“Marcos the VP candidate taking it up for the young generation and sitting right behind him, in the seats of honor, Estrada, Imelda Marcos and Enrile!”
The Four Horsemen of Filipinocalypse: Bongbong, Imelda, Erap and Johnny. Which is which is open to interpretation.
The Marcoses fled the country leaving it bankrupt, with a alot of foreign loans and as gleaned from the chronology of Marcos plunder, all government instirutions dealing in finance have losses in their books due to behest loans granted to cronies, these are all charged against suceeding budgets so that those government institutions would continue to function. In the end, the Filipino people ended up paying for not only those foreign loans to IMF and WB, but also for those behest loans of his cronies. Like Greece of today, the Philippines had to honor those debts or be a pariah in the yes of the world community. An aid initiated by the US and the Asian nations was scheduled, pledges were made in billions of dollars, only to be held in abeyance due to instability brought about by the series of coups (as posted by chempo some blogs ago) masterminded by the now VP candidate Honasan and allegedly financed by Enrile who is now free courtesy of the Arroyo 8 SC justices, now endorsing the VP candidacy of the only son of the conjugal dictator plunderer Marcoses.
So the pledged aid was held in abeyance, we were left bankrupt, the nation struggling in poverty, the parents had to leave the country as OFWs leaving a broken home and children without parental guidance, the country suffered a brain drain as capable teachers left the country, leaving less capable ones to take over resulting in sub-standard education, capable doctors, engineers left as well, no wonder we are left behind in development by our neighboring countries. In the meantime, China is revving her economy, opened up her market, gotten rich, had a foreign dollar reserves in magnitude never imagined by them in their wildest dreams, developed their defense and began their plans of grabbing our territorial waters, our very own EEZ at the Western Philippine Seas. Ramos, Estrada sailed along minding their own interest, Estrada and Arroyo entered into deals with China which are allegedly against the constitution. PNOY began the long delayed defense upgrade, initiated the fight against corruption (the main stumbling block to the economic growth being felt by the poor) and cleaning of the various institutions, improved the economy, 2nd biggest economy in Asia and the world? Wow…all we need is continuity….here comes the gang of plunderers (Marcos, Estrada, Binay, Poe) threatening that continuity we all dream of.
We truly have a lot to do, our dreams of economic stability and prosperity have many hurdles provided by these groups.
We can never rest, the fight is still on. Wil, cha, and the rest of you guys, we cannot rest yet.
Over my inert body, but no, we will live and they will perish. Reminds me of Sun Tzu’s admonition: Never Wound a King. He comes back to regroup. It’s not that they’re stronger, it’s that we are weak. Learn, learn, learn.
*******
EXCERPTS ABOUT BONGBONG (ex libris)
1. “Inside the Palace” by Beth Day Romulo
1.1. On a visit to Nairobi (page 114)
“President Marcos made arrangements for the hunter to assemble pairs of non-predatory animals and bring them to an uninhabited grass-laden island in the Philippines. I thought it was a lovely idea to have a Philippine wild game preserve – until I heard that the President’s son, Bong Bong, went there regularly to shoot game.”
1.2 On a psychic hanger-on known as Bionic Boy at the palace (page 199)
“The length of Bionic Boy’s stay had to do with a fortuitous event. Friends of the Marcos family, including their children’s friends, had all gone to the President’s home province to celebrate his birthday. On the way back, a planeload of younger Marcos cronies was about to take off, with Bong Bong aboard when the Bionic Boy sent word to the President that he must remove his son from the flight. Bong Bong was yanked off the plane – which crash-landed in Manila, killing several of the passengers and injuring others. After that the Bionic Boy was a favoured guest at Malacanang.
1.3. On the Aquino murder trial (page 263)
“…Bong Bong’s name has surfaced in the reopening of the Aquino murder trial in Manila. He is suspected of attempting to bribe a witness, the famous ‘Crying Lady’ who is said to have seen Aquino shot – however, not enough evidence was found to bring him to trial…”
2. “Imelda, Steel Butterfly of the Philippines” by Katherine Ellison
2.1. On President Nixon’s Manila visit (page 97)
“At the formal state dinner in Malacanang, talk centered on the successful Apollo II moon voyage announced that day, prompting Nixon to recall that Marcos’ son, Bongbong, had once said he would like to be the first Filipino to go to the moon. In his toast to the Marcoses, the American President promised, “On the first vehicle that carries passenger… to the moon, Bongbong will be on that space vehicle.”
2.2. On being vice-governor (page 177 – 178)
“Bongbong, mop-haired, soft-spoken, and Oxford-educated, turned 20 in 1978. Two years later, he was elected without opposition as vice governor in Ilocos Norte, where he was given a bachelor’s beachhouse with a swimming pool ringed by palm trees and a hotel lobby-sized dining room with turtle-shell chandeliers. With all that, he didn’t spend much time there, preferring his friends and the discos of Manila. His major achievements in office were officially recorded as improving provincial slaughterhouses and running sports programs, and he made no secret of his aversion for his post, telling one friend, ‘I don’t want to do a good job. If I do a good job, they will give me a bigger job.’ He chafed at his lack of freedom, complaining his youth had been ‘stolen’ from him. ‘I asked him once, don’t you like to be the president someday?’ recalled another friend, Rodolfo Farinas, mayor of Ilocos Norte’s provincial capital. ‘And he said, ‘I don’t want my children to turn out like me.’”
“What made Bongbong behave well at all was his father, whom he held in awe and in whose presence Bongbong was known to break out in sweats. For his mother, however, he showed subtle contempt. ‘His father had been telling him to get a wife,’ said Farinas, who referred to Bongbong as ‘Bongets.’ ‘But Bongets told me marriage is scary, like blackmail… You have a wife and she gets bored, she wants to travel, she wants to go shopping. It’s trouble, especially if one is a politician.’ Bongbong shunned publicity, and his only real fame came after his family fled the palace, when a videotape of a Marcos party was released, showing him wearing a flashing bow tie and leading the rest of the clan in singing, ‘We Are the World.’”
2.3. On fleeing the palace (page 246)
“The family was hoisted by their servants into a small Navy boat called the Captain’s Jig. Bongbong was wearing fatigues, had grenades in his pockets, and was carrying what looked like an Uzi machine gun. Irene was carrying her violin case…”
3. “America’s Boy” by James Hamilton-Paterson
3.1. On the execution of drug baron Lim Seng and the Marcos character (page 299)
“Lim’s execution did more than subdue Roque Ablan and his fellow inmates. Marcos never did such a thing again; but as a dire warning to other criminals enjoying high-level protection its shock value was dramatic and his popularity soared still further, especially among parents worried about the availability of drugs. It was out of character for Ferdinand, who was not madugo or bloodthirsty – most certainly not by prevailing standards of Asian strongmen. His Filipino instinct was essentially non-confrontational: an inclination to outwit or come to terms with those he arrested rather than obliterate them. (Bong Bong Marcos once quoted his father’s advice: ‘Neutralize people – never humiliate them. Always give them a way out. Otherwise they’ll come back and kill your children.’) Maybe his comparative mildness stemmed also from an inchoate desire to be loved by his people, something that might equally explain his peculiar indulgence towards friends who abused their position to steal money and otherwise endanger his Administration – an indifference, almost, as though he were abstractedly thinking of something quite else and couldn’t bring himself to care about such details.*** In the end, this amounted to culpable weakness. Like Pontius Pilate, he managed to preserve a comparative innocence by keeping his hands clean of violence through delegation. Malacanang kept aloof from what was happening in the country’s jails and detention centres, all of which were now under military control. He left the really dirty work to others.
“It would be grotesquely apologist, as well as immoral, to play down what actually did go on under martial law. ‘I regret the violence. That I regret,’ Ferdinand’s own son was to say years later when asked what, if anything, of his father’s years he felt uneasy about. A Filipina journalist put the matter into some perspective:
’There is one explanatory remark I would like to make regarding Marcos and his depredations, particularly against people. True, they do not equal the scale of Latin America or the bestiality of Africa, but there is enough record not to dismiss it. The Japanese and the Americans did much worse in their time, but this was a home-grown tyrant who took advantage of our goodwill. In true Filipino fashion of valuing interpersonal relations in everything he let his minions – i.e. [Gen. Fabian] Ver, [Col. Rolando] Abadilla, [Col. Hernani] Figueroa, [Col. Gregorio] Gringo Honasan (in his time) do the torturing and their minions do the unspeakable, while the President appeared, posed, and acted statesmanlike. The ultimate tragedy for us was that he could have been a great agent of change for the better, but chose to keep to the same pattern of our leadership tradition.’”.
*** The author is so wrong. Marcos condoned stealing because he was the master of stealing.
*****
Thanks, edgar, this is a great summary of his personality and experience. I have a better sense of the guy now.
‘I asked him once, don’t you like to be the president someday?’ recalled another friend, Rodolfo Farinas, mayor of Ilocos Norte’s provincial capital. ‘And he said, ‘I don’t want my children to turn out like me.’”
I’m wondering if this is a good thing.
“(Bong Bong Marcos once quoted his father’s advice: ‘Neutralize people – never humiliate them. Always give them a way out. Otherwise they’ll come back and kill your children.’)”
If every dictator thought like that, the world would be a better place.
>>>> At first, I was picturing an Uday/Qusay Hussein or Bassel Al-Assad-type guy, but reading this, I’m convinced he’s more a Basher Al-Assad– as Mami pointed out mediocre, yes, maybe not as mellow; but definitely not evil or crazy.
Bionic Boy?
Are you a TSEATC reader?
http://www.tseatc.com/smf/index.php
*******
If the TSEATC question is directed to me, the answer is “Not at all.”
*****
I would like to focus on your hashtag #saangalingangperamo – where dod your wealth came from
ASIAN JOURNAL | Chronology of the Marcos Plunder
asianjournalusa.com/chronology-of-the-marcos-plunder-p10909-67.htm
*******
Here I am, munching on popcorn, and I do not know what I am watching, whether a comedy or a tragedy.
There’s Bongbong, arms raised by Enrile on his left, Erap on his right, and Imelda to Erap’s right. Bongbong is sourly beaming, Erap is chuckling, and both Imelda and Enrile are looking downcast. The incongruity and absurdity of it all has me, like the song goes, laughing on the outside and crying on the inside… cause I’m still in love with you, my beloved country.
The Ilocano political slogan behind says, “Marcos now, Marcos forever!”
Slogan? It’s a curse!
We seem to have the same actors on stage, only playing different roles. At one moment, I believe it’s a Greek tragedy, with the chorus intoning, “Nagalaw pa ba yan?” In the next moment, I am sure it is a comedy, with the chorus singing praises to AlDub.
*****
Wretchedness, Edgar, but redeemed by “I’m still in love with you, my beloved country.”
How can we lose?
Kaputol ng Isang Awit, the movie from the early 1990s, was a drama similar to the drama that is Philippine history – love, passion, treachery – and with the hope of redemption at the end, symbolized in its final scene of a family broken united once more. In fact it shows all the significant ethnic and social groups of then united, listening to the song of a reunited family. The message of the film director and the song lost as usual:
COALITION OF CROOKS …. what is missing, SORRY JEJO, are THE BINAYS ……
I’d like a picture of nincompoops justices …… and army of future crooks, they will be graduating next year in March. These are funded by taxpayers that will potentially bite the hands that educated them.
And of course, …. nah, never mind …. poor Bernardita Inocencio.
So I’ll work up a photo of the Binays, the Supreme Court, and one of the UP graduating class in March. That’s my assignment? 🙂 Then – with the Marcos/Estrada/Imelda/Enrile photo – we will have all that ails the Philippines in four simple photos.
Aha! Ha! Ha! That would be a good photo ops, Joe. What are these guys up to?
Binay-Honasan
Mar-Leni
Grace-Chiz
Duterte-Gordon(?)
xxx(?)-Bongbong
Wheeeew !!!! Are they really serious running the country or lining up their pockets or for their friends&relatives employment of last resort and appointments?
Obama must be laughing very hard. Obama is right not giving away Marwan awards money. Filipinos cannot get their act together. No body. No evidence. No matter how much they investigate Marwan’s death Obama is not buying.
sigh….
Am in tears now, and with lumps in my throat, the youth apathetic and uncaring, the baby boomers now weak in the knees, and Marcos, Enrile, Honasan and Estrada now joined by Binay and Poe, are all over the country sprinkling their plundered wealth to the hungry, gullible poor.
Weakened physically perhaps, but fight and pray we must. Our beloved country needs us.
Note: need to clarify that…Poe is being financed by Roberto Ongpin so I lumped her together with rest of them.
The Millenials are the problem,we are the baby boomers.
Or are we generation x,i mix it up.
Wrong again generation x 1965 to 1980 so Irineo and me are degeneration x. You are correct baby boomers and millenials are lost.
Millenials are lost, indeed…hey millenial generation, that’s a challenge not a verdict..prove the baby boomers wrong, prove that you aren’t lost. The country needs the youth. Prove that Jose Rizal is correct in his faith in you. Use that gadget in your hands to save the country, those who are not yet doing so. Use your techie expertise to create more memes (use the PCIJ reports as reference) so Marcos, Binay, Honasan, Poe and Duterte will not have a chance to drive this country of ours backward another step or two. We need continuity.
For those interested, a quick guide to the generations…
ww.telegraph.co.uk/news/features/11002767/Gen-Z-Gen-Y-baby-boomers-a-guide-to-the-generations.html
At one moment, I believe it’s a Greek tragedy, with the chorus intoning, “Nagalaw pa ba yan?” In the next moment, I am sure it is a comedy, with the chorus singing praises to AlDub. Warlord Governor Crisologo of Ilocos is rumored to be a Marcos casualty.
Not killed – in the cathedral while praying – by henchmen of his nephew Chavit Singson of hueteng scandal famelike many say, but by a half-crazed military killer sent by Makoy.
Have you heard the saying the victor tells the story?
Won because of the dumb people from manila.
It’s a common misconception that the revolution was confined to EDSA. That’s not the case: while the largest gathering was in Manila, there were also protests elsewhere in the country, notably in Cebu.
Yeah ABBA keeps singing it.The Winner takes it all.SO?
The joke in Marcos times when we saw a car with the sign “For Official Use Only” was that it was “For Official Use Also”.
Remember the Sakbayan?
volkswagen yon
Pldt had many of them or was that meralco?
so the victors are dumb and the losers are geniuses. Do you live in Bizzaro world?
Victor Wood was stupid and heroic. For exposing the payola scandal in radio.
Stupid because they never played him on the radio again.
He still plays Tom Jones,he ran and loss in some electipn years ago.
Some survivors also tell the story, Jethro.
I was there. I tell the story. I am dumb?
Oh dear, this is what I’ve been dreading. The Marcos loyalists are now resorting to illogical statements and ad hominems. It seems the Marcos loyalist who actually gives logical information is a rare sight in a sea of poor thinking.
*******
Speaking of poor thinking, I have been trying to make head and tails of Bongbong’s opening volley that he intends to lead a revolution. He is quoted as saying, ““Hindi pa tapos ang rebolusyon. Hindi pa tayo lubos na malaya (The revolution is not yet over. We are not yet truly free).”
Apparently, he is talking of the Philippine revolution against Spain.
The Philippines has been free of Spain for more than a century. Bongbong is caught in a time warp. He would erase the last 100 years and make us forget the dictatorship of his father.
As for freedom, we have been free from colonialism since July 4, 1946.
o We have the freest press
o We have the freest congress that freely wastes taxpayers’ money
o We have the freest judiciary that freely allows the rich to escape justice
o We have the freest executive that freely moves without clear direction
o We have the freest people that freely do not stringently observe the laws
And it is precisely against this chaotic no-holds-barred freedom, the “lack of discipline” as MKL has noted, that the neo Marcos loyalists are chafing against. So which is which? Are we not truly free? Or are we too free? Bongbong is at odds with his supporters.
It is not that we are not free, but that we have not known and do not know what to do with our freedom.
That phrase — the “lack of discipline” — is a dangerous notion. This is where we invite back martial law thinking, invite external imposition. I would change that phrase to “lack of responsibility.” Freedom requires responsibility. Or formulating it backwards: Responsibility is a prerequisite for freedom. This is when a parent knows to let a child grown into adult go.
We were but a child as a nation when we were let go. Hence, our stormy teens now. Wilfredo says there is hope, but I think we have a long, long way to go.
We are free… but if we are not responsible, we lose our freedom. This is the positive lesson of martial law.
At the same time… if we are not responsible, we do not lose our freedom. That is: if we are rich and influential. This is the negative lesson of the crooks in government, the three senators, and the Marcoses.
*****
“We have the freest press” that writes a lot of nonsense…
“Tell the press to go to hell” was what Quezon said. Only his nurse meant the priest.
Ha, yes, I remember you telling us that that was the point in time when Quezon realized we have to have a national language, a common link…his nurse telling the president that the press (priest) wants to see him..
I had a personal assistant in the office who came from Davao, she seldom mispronounced or interchanged the “e” wirh the “i” unlike her mom, our kasambahay. She actually had good diction.. I told her to study hard and finish her studies so she can help her mama..alas! When she went home to visit Davao, she promptly got pregnant at the age of 16. Haiisst..
Nut case in action. I’m reminded of the Caine Mutiny, ball bearings rattling. I keep flipping rewind of his outburst in the Mamasapano hearing when he was incredulous that the AFP didn’t start shooting artillery shells into the women and children of the local villages because the President had said to use artillery. Bert needs to watch more tv. 🙂 🙂
I did, Joe. But being in the category of poor thinker, or poor thinking as Mami Kawada Lover and Edgar said, my poor mind was not able to relate how those TV spectacles had define a person as evil, evil as defined in the dictionary, or in the bible. It’s too deep for me. Poor me.
My only complain, Joe, is when in political debate like this where two opposing views, for example between the smart guys and the not too smart guys one side started to act in such condescending manner as if the center of the universe lies only in one side of the spectrum. That makes me sad most of the time when that happen.
That’s true, that is what develops. I condescend because those who approach the blog are presenting such half-truths or deceits that it is hard to react seriously. Irineo does a better job of it. It seems like is either trample or be trampled. But I understand your dismay, that we can’t achieve a higher level of dialogue.
Hi Bert! My seat mate from the 4th row. How I admire your idealism that we need a higher level of discussion. But. I think we need to also understand that these are kids, who need guidance and a compass to show them direction. It seems that it is impossible to even argue with them. They were led to think that way because they want to return to power.
Edgar, hobbling into the future. Plus 1 (love of country), Minus 0.9 (everything that ails us), plus 1, minus 0.9… We need to make ten steps to take a single step forward. We’ll make it. Discussions like this actually refreshes us, makes us see better without looking back. Limping, yes, but always trying, like Michael Westphal who finished the Boston marathon in spite of Parkinson’s. http://www.runnersworld.com/general-interest/runner-with-parkinsons-disease-qualifies-for-boston-marathon
This is a ridiculous post, PLEASE, think hard on why I called this a ridiculous post. It’s a waste of time posting this and yes a waste of MY time commenting on this. Please do think if you have ANY common sense. The title says it all on why I hate this post, such crab mentality on this post and you can’t even sense it.
Strangest comment I’ve read in all my years of blogging.
He makes me cry in frustration, gnashing my teeth in suppressed anger.
There is a surreal quality to all this, I agree. It’s like it is more important for people to feel righteous or powerful, and attached to a rebellious movement, than it is to put in the work, thinking, consideration of others, and sacrifices to build a quality nation. I suppose it has to do with feeling impotent . . . which I’d imagine many do . . . and finally getting a whiff of power. Even if that power is totally destructive.
A lot of people could use some psychiatric care, I think.
Or a dose of the reality during those days.
Which give me an idea for my next big article in my blog after the China article – a detailed analysis of the Marcos system. Exposing how much it was like North Korea in spirit – propaganda that glossed over the bitter realities in Manila and in the countryside.
But that will be a month or so from now, the China article will be in one week. Marcos propaganda was high-caliber but also the Potemkin villages that it created – except in Ilocos were he really made sure his folks had everything. Except Floro Crisologo…
My historical article on the Marcos period is here: http://filipinogerman.blogsport.eu/philippine-history-part-iii-nation-section-2-marcos-period/ – and the policy article in detail will follow. BTW I am getting pro-China trolls every day now, even before my China article.
We need a strong leader, yes, but a benevolent one, if there is such a thing, which after Marcos seems to be a political impossibility. Either you appear strong like Marcos or appear weak like President Aquino. Choices, choices. The elections next year is about how to wield power, Marcos style or Aquino approach. In the end, it’ll be Duterte vs. Roxas on either end of the spectrum. Binay is done, a spent force, a harakiri in slowmo. Poe will be laughed out of center stage, haven’t read or seen favorable feedback since she Englished her way to our hearts in Mamasapano hearings. People still can’t imagine what her father did that she has to continue. Epic fail. A poor player that struts and frets… If North and South fought over slavery, Duterte and Roxas loyalists will fight over summary executions, democratic processes. If Duterte wins, it’s a sign that we have finally snapped.
“We need a strong leader, yes, but a benevolent one, if there is such a thing”
Quezon and Magsaysay were examples. In fact the sweeping powers that the Philippine president was given in the 1935 Constitution were OK in their hands, fatal in Marcos’.
Magsaysay was more of a Level 5 leader than Quezon was, to use the terminology that LCPL_X has introduced. Quezon’s successor Osmeña was not properly prepared and did not embody the mindset that Quezon wanted for his Republic. Roxas – forget it.
When Magsaysay died, his successor Carlos P. Garcia – not related to Karl Garcia here – continued his policies. In fact SEATO was the South East Asian NATO, something that would be grand in these days. But it fell apart quickly, SEA people cannot cooperate well.
http://filipinogerman.blogsport.eu/philippine-history-part-iii-nation-section-1-the-republic/
Damn, I am starting to self-quote, reminds me of my father’s history articles. But the role of Ninoy in damming the Huk rebellion should be remembered, because there are propagandists who say all he was known for was getting shot at the airport. Just like the idiots who make the joke that Rizal only thought he was going for a walk at the Luneta. Now there is no Ninoy Aquino monument anywhere, or am I mistaken?
Ramon Magsaysay switched sides to join the Nacionalista Party as its presidential candidate, winning against Quirino in 1953. He continued his fight against the Hukbalahap, partly on the military side, but also through programs that made life better for tenant farmers. The “Huk” were all but neutralized in 1954, with then 22-year-old Benigno Aquino Jr. playing a role as personal emissary to Luis Taruc, who was captured in the same year. Magsaysay’s popularity also helped him win people’s trust.
Under President Magsaysay, the Philippines became a member of the newly founded SEATO, formed to counter communism in Southeast Asia. Furthermore, the Neri-Takazaki agreement on reparations from Japan was negotiated as well as the Laurel-Langley agreement with the USA, which replaced the disadvantageous Bell Trade Act. President Magsaysay died in a plane crash near Cebu on March 16, 1957. His funeral on March 31, 1957 was visited by two million people – in a Philippines that then only had a population of about over twenty million, in contrast to the almost one hundred million it has now.
Vice President Carlos P. Garcia, also Nacionalista Party, took over and was reelected as President in the same year’s elections. President Garcia outlawed subversive organizations such as the Communist party and also continued Magsaysay’s staunchly anti-communist foreign policy. He instituted the Filipino First policy to promote local business and changed laws regarding the retail trade to the disadvantage of overseas Chinese businessmen in the Philippines, instituted the Austerity Program to be less dependent on foreign imports and with the Bohlen–Serrano agreement, changed the lease period of American bases from 99 years down to 25 years, renewable every 5 years.
This is also interesting to show how the protagonists of the Filipino Greek drama that Edgar referred to had their character development:
Quirino was re-elected in 1949. His time as President was beset by the Hukbalahaps, former Communist guerillas against the Japanese who continued their fight after the war against landowners in Central Luzon, and by massive economic problems. Quirino also sent a military contingent to South Korea to help General Douglas McArthur against the North Koreans, with then Lieutenant Fidel Ramos in it. Ramon Magsaysay, then Liberal Party, scored a number of successes in fighting the Hukbalahap as Secretary of Defense. What earned him the admiration of the Filipino public was how he rushed to the rescue of his political ally Moises Padilla, who was being tortured by goons of Negros Occidental governor Lacson. He came too late and carried Padilla’s corpse, left swimming in blood on a bench, to the morgue. His testimony was instrumental in the conviction of Governor Lacson…
President Macapagal wanted to send soldiers to South Vietnam, which was blocked by then Senate President Ferdinand Marcos. After not being made LP Presidential candidate, Marcos had switched sides and joined the Nacionalista Party as its presidential bid and won in November 1965. Soon after becoming President, Marcos switched his stance on helping the United States in Vietnam, sending the non-combatant Philippines Civic Action Group (PHILCAG) under the command of Fidel V. Ramos. In 1965, the population of the Philippines was just over 30 million. One dollar was worth 3.9 Philippines pesos, meaning that the Philippine peso had around the same value as the Deutsche Mark. Yet every government had attempted to solve the perennial problem of the Philippines – its agricultural sector and the hardship of poor tenants – and had failed. Nearly every administration – except Magsaysay’s – had been beset by massive corruption. The postwar republic did not yet know it was about to end. The new nation did not know what pain still lay ahead for it – especially from Marcos, a man who for many carried the promise of better days to come.
General Javier Carbonnel who later was instrumental in squashing the 1989 coup against Cory was one of Ramos’ men in the PHILCAG troop, don’t even know what his rank was.
Teniente Manuel Quezon was Aguinaldo’s aide-de-camp. Ninoy helped Magsaysay in negotiating with the Hukbalahap. Roxas’ grandfather looks like a corrupt version of Mar, while his father Senator Gerry Roxas looks like a VERY strong-willed version of Mar…
Yes, Macapagal… who is documented to be descended from Raja Lakandula of Tondo.. just like Senator Jovito Salonga and actress Lea Salonga among others. Tondo was inhabited by Kapampangans – the people of the riverbanks – back in Lakandulas days. The other side of the Pasig was inhabited by Taga-Ilogs or Tagalogs – people of the river, who pushed the Kapampangans of the north side back during Spanish colonial times.
Gloria Macapagal-Arroyo, when she entered Malacanang, said something like this is home for me, I grew up here. There are old pictures of her at official functions – in a miniskirt.
The joke in the Philippines then was what grew up, she is still small. But the entitlement in her comment about the Palace being her home made me skeptical from the beginning. Unfortunately I was proven right once again… and in such things I hate being right.
Cielo Macapagal-Salgado, her older sister by a different mother, was a good character – I met her personally once, was assigned to take care of her and the crook governor Romeo Salalima of Albay when they came to visit Germany. Typical Embassy casual work…
She told me her father was truly “the poor boy from Lubao, Pampanga” and very modest. When Gloria assumed power, they thought she would be like her father – a big mistake. Now Bongbong is too much like his father in the wrong ways, and too little in good ways.
There have been studies that even benevolent dictatorship is not a good leadership style. It does not empower the people. It’s just another short term fix. I still think servant leadership is the best.
Level 5 leadership is what you are describing: http://de.slideshare.net/FreekHermkens/level-5-leadership-jim-collins
Wow! There really are neo Marcos loyalist. What did they do with these kids?
In a word, indoctrinated. Nay, brainwashed. 😐
Did I miss anything, Joe, Mary, and Irineo? He appeared to have said more apart from the above. Were his other comments deleted?
Yes you did, they were deleted because they were North Korean style Marcos propaganda. They are repeated here now: http://filipinogerman.blogsport.eu/philippine-history-part-iii-nation-section-2-marcos-period/comment-page-1/#comment-1025
You are cordially invited to comment on them, expose the lies and half-truths they are. Help me find an objective view of history to counter such vicious propagandists.
https://joeam.com/2015/10/10/return-the-ill-gotten-wealth-first-bongbong-saangalingangperamo/#comment-140820 – I will pitch in as soon as I see participation.
Right, same comment. Different screen name. So far I have identified 5 separate screen names used by this same person. He was AV here last week, as well as Lam and Lim and another I forgot. That’s okay. He probably forgot, too, and is burning up Yahoo mail addresses like by the dozen.
Probably the yahoo mail adresses are all fake. Had Lim in my blog too…
I mean read Kim Jong Un’s propaganda and know North Korean reality, you have Marcos.
I’ve returned Francis’ comment here: https://joeam.com/2015/10/10/return-the-ill-gotten-wealth-first-bongbong-saangalingangperamo/#comment-140746
The only caution I would add is that he is pushing a master agenda and has been here before under masked circumstances. He also arrived with red flags attached, so has a “history” at other sites with spam filters.
Fine with me if the discussion and debunking of Marcos’ propaganda is done here.
I will summarize it in my answer to Paul in my blog and link the sub-discussion here.
Let us consider this practice – we will get more of this stuff, come campaign time.
So Locomotive and Francis are the same person?
No, I think they are different. Francis is the one with history, and the one also commenting as “Paul” on Irineo’s site with a cut and paste.
I just want to ridicule you, but it is not in my nature. Don’t be ridiculous.
You are so right! But it all depends from your viewpoint, if you stand between Imelda and Enrile then all what you see here is utterly ridiculous, dangerous, to be eradicated at the soonest once in power.
@Locomotive
“…….”
that is the unbearable lightness of your comment. 🙂
Your more stupid or moron than I thought, if it’s a waste of your time in posting here why did you do so? It means you are just baiting for responses and wants attention from your few liners.
Lives in our barangay was better during marcos regime the the later
That’s not the point, I think. The point is what happened to the nation and those who were killed, imprisoned, or otherwise harmed by lack of any due process.
I’d be interested in your response to this comment: https://joeam.com/2015/10/10/return-the-ill-gotten-wealth-first-bongbong-saangalingangperamo/#comment-140751
And our home village Tiwi was basically destroyed by Marcos’ geothermal plant.
Kabataang Baranggay ka siguro noon. Magaling siguro ang Baranggay chairman nyo bakit di nyo binoto ulit?
I remember a former KB OFW, a Visayan from the Alabang squatter areas.
It was really interesting – me a former KM and him a former KB talking in Germany. His mindset was fascist in an interesting sort of way. He said “there are many abnormal people here in Germany because of medical care. In the Philippines they do not survive. Also Germans get sick more easily than Filipinos. In the Phlippines we have survival of the fittest, the sick just die so our race is stronger”. Not to mention his anti-Chinoy rhetoric.
Subjective, just your opinion or based on hard data? Was your barangay in Ilocos?
Difference in average income, literacy, life expectancy, % of broken families or survey results…?
Alan Robles collects screen shots of his incredible exchanges with Loyalists,he has so many of them he calls them comedy.
Sorry wasn’t supposed to post it after your comment.
Alan has perfected Marcos troll bashing to a fine art. Its quite a challenge to employ cutting sarcasm and biting witticisms on dullards who have no clue they are have just been made hapless objects of ridicule.
Going back to that early commenter “Flipperflapper” or “flippingflips” 🙂 I find it hilarious that he uses the Library of Congress as if it was a guarantor of authenticity and reliability. He probably doesn’t even know what it is,
I have given the Filipinos a rough time but am coming to the conclusion that the Filipinos are a big hearted people and show greatness:
http://www.rappler.com/nation/104709-philippines-china-pew-research-survey-2015
But in the Philippines, despite expressing concern over territorial conflicts, a little more than half, or 54%, of Filipinos have favorable views toward China.
The Pew Research Center also noted that public views of China have improved in the past year in the Philippines, an increase of 16 points.
The survey also showed that younger Filipinos have confidence in Chinese President Xi Jinping, and that 59% of Filipinos aged 18 to 29 are among the strongest supporters of the Chinese leader in the region.
Yeah, okie dokie, and what is the relevance to the discussion on the Marcos wealth? We already had our China discussion here and concluded there are a lot of trolls working their way across social media. Mostly they distort and mislead.
One comment similar to that one on my blog as well… another is simply an insult in German. They should wait for my big China article and not put China stuff here.
And if millenial Filipinos truly have that much confidence in Xi Jinping – and Bongbong – then the country is lost. Joe be prepared to be like the Spaniards who stayed in the Philippines and joined Luna to fight the Yankees. And most Filipinos did not care..
Off topic.
Irineo, The trolls says you are backing out.guys let us resbak Irineo when they come back here or there.
Salamat, Capt. Rusca. I am only moving to the Cordillera. In fact I am already in the highlands – of Germany.
Capt Rusca lived to tell.
So did General Alejandrino, who looked very Spanish creole in the movie and in real-life pictures. He wrote his memoirs in 1949 and also added to the story. He also wrote the original version of “Bayan Ko” in Spanish – the song that the leftists still like to sing.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bayan_Ko
“Bayan Ko” (Spanish: Nuestra Patria, English: My Country) is one of the most recognizable patriotic songs of the Philippines. It was originally penned in Spanish by the Revolutionary general José Alejandrino, and translated into Tagalog some three decades later by the poet José Corazón de Jesús.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jos%C3%A9_Alejandrino
While in Spain, he was one of the members of the Propaganda Movement which demanded equality, especially equal opportunities in the colonial administration, for Spaniards and Filipinos. He was also a contributor to La solidaridad, an organization composed of Filipino liberals living abroad since 1872, mostly attending different universities across Europe. The group aimed to increase Spanish awareness of the needs of its colony, the Philippines, and to foster a closer relationship between the archipelago and Spain.[3] Alejandrino helped José Rizal in correcting errors in the El filibusterismo, which was published in Ghent, Belgium. He also helped distribute copies of the said manuscript.[2]…
Alejandrino and his friend, General Antonio Luna, suggested to Aguinaldo that they build a defensive line from Novaliches to Caloocan to delay the northward advance of American troops intent on capturing the railway. This was however not implemented, as Aguinaldo surrendered unconditionally to General Frederick Funston on 29 April 1901.[5] In August of the same year, Alejandrino accepted an offer to serve as the second city engineer of Manila.[5] In 1925, Governor-General Leonard Wood made him senator of the Twelfth Senatorial District of the Philippines. He died on June 1, 1951.[5]
http://www.worldcat.org/title/price-of-freedom-la-senda-del-sacrificio-episodes-and-anecdotes-of-our-struggles-for-freedom/oclc/34460393?ht=edition&referer=di
published in 1949 and still available in print – “The Price of Freedom” by Senator Jose Alejandrino – the bearded general always next to Heneral Luna in the movie.
It is even available on Amazon…
https://books.google.de/books?id=yYfSbFGFWlUC&pg=PA10&lpg=PA10&dq=alejandrino+1949+la+senda+del+sacrificio&source=bl&ots=r5IXXWmN-m&sig=TNeq6hUGxqEoDrJuz7Kp9qfKyfQ&hl=de&sa=X&ved=0CFAQ6AEwCGoVChMIyM6n1Ke6yAIVi1gUCh2DDAqF#v=onepage&q=alejandrino%201949%20la%20senda%20del%20sacrificio&f=false
Jose Alejandrino was an engineer…
Good to know.
Now you know!
Seriously, I only found out about all of this AFTER the Heneral Luna movie, googling around. Much of our Filipino knowledge is there, the Internet helps us find it again.
Seated, 2nd from left – played by Archie Alemania in the Heneral Luna movie.
Different from Luna, Alejandrino already joined the Revolution before 1898 and even helped the revolutionaries procure arms from China via Hong Kong. Rizal and Mabini were his contemporaries studying at Ateneo… These are the strands of the Filipino fabric.
Ok, many Filipino nationalists were mestizo, Manuel Quezon has a very aquiline nose.
But his grandson (and blogger who is NOT Joe) MLQ3 has a Filipino nose, MRP are you now contented? Many Katipuneros liked to chop of the noses of Spanish santos BTW…
Mlq3 was adopted,in case you are wondering why he is not tisoy.
Isn’t BongBong cute? Very gentlemanly. He should have his picture taken with The Binay Bonanno Crime Family with their top hat in hand.
Related material :
The Economic Ruins of Martial Law
http://www.ateneo.edu/ls/soss/economics/news/research/economic-ruins-martial-law-eaglewatch-dr-leonardo-lanzona-jr
How much is our national debt during Marcos and how much is today? All you talk about is the evil of Marcos. How is it comparable? The criminality rate today is unimaginable!!!!!
How much have your read about history and what sources have you consulted? How old are you? Are your parents with you? Were you alive during the Marcos years? Are Facebook posts and memes more believable than reputable newspaper accounts and history books?
What school did you go to?
We Filipinos are so much envy with the marcoses.
Ill gotten wealth? lahat po ata ng kaso nila, napanaloan nila ah . .
Your profile pic indicates you are a young person. Try education, ignorance is expensive.
no matter what you say sir
BBM will be our vice-president
many young person like me starting to believe in him
Therein lies the difficulty in communicating with Marcos fans. “No matter what you say, no matter what information you present, I am locked into my views. They are my ignorances, and I love ’em to death.”
Might as well just unplug the charger and go fishing . . .
Because you hate to be proven wrong? Scared to be ridiculed by fellow Marcos supporters if you maybe question them?
Do you value truth? Depending what truth is to you, perhaps.
you, dear Marcos apologist, are the one whose definition of truth is absolutely questionable. you refuse to see the empirical data, the documented facts and oral/written history.
its because they said, history is written by the victors
I have to laugh thinking about if America had allowed the Japanese to write the history of WW II. Or Cory Aquino allowing Imelda to write the history of the Marcos years. Pretty funny.
I must note, writing from Germany, that American historians wrote the history of WW2 in Europe pretty fairly. History is about the relevant flow of what happened. But it always has a point of view – what you choose as relevant, and how you evaluate the facts at hand.
If American historians had omitted too many relevant, majors aspects about Nazi Germany, or evaluated the facts in a twisted manner, then revisionist German historians would have an easy time demolishing their version of what happened. They didn’t. Major revisions were about the nastiness of bombing raids – the English were especially vicious but German revisionist historians tend to omit that English suffered from the Blitz and had a vindictive reason for Bomber Harris. Russian POWs were treated badly by Germans – while American and English POWs were treated well especially if they were white. French wanted to partition Germany totally, erasing it from the map forever. The US, with no occupation baggage, stopped them. Massive rape by Russians especially in the poorer areas of Berlin, and by French troops of Arab descent in the Southwest, was also something revisionists tried to use. Both aspects are true, but the big picture counts. German soldiers were pretty vicious in burning and raping in the Soviet Union as well.
What is interesting is that Englishmen did not figure at all – no sex please, we’re British. And Americans did have their way with some Fräuleins, but at least dated them and lured them with PX in the hungry postwar days – the poorer ones. My grandmother told my mother about this in the postwar days, my mom was just a little girl then. But living in the American zone, some of her friends ended up marrying American officers, one tried to find the father of her child in the US for alimony but to no avail. But in Berlin, the allies had the occupation code – in force until 1990 – that anyone caught without ID could be shot on sight. The USA from what I have heard from my folks used this only from 1945-1945 and rarely, the Russians more and longer. You could get into trouble though – even in the 1980s – if you sped by a US military installation and ran over an American kid – the MPs had the right to arrest you as a civilian. But Americans have this strange idea of playing by the rules, like the Germans and English. Russians, sometimes French, bent them more.
Americans also have the habit of not lying – most of the time, and if they did they do look at what happened to learn from it. Abu Ghraib, IBMs role in the Holocaust – none of it censored in the United States. In Russia today, foreign NGO representatives can get jailed as foreign spies. Happened to a colleague of my mother from the Adenauer foundation – each democratic party has a foundation in Germany, dedicated to teaching democracy based on the learning curve Germans had. Being a mainly Lutheran culture, Germans are both avid students and avid teachers once they have learned something. Like Americans. Russian internet trolls now accuse the KAS (Konrad Adenauer Foundation) and CIA of agitating to destabilize Russia and former Soviet countries. Now that is twisting the truth. One can for example see the February revolution as US-initiated regime change because Marcos did not want to be Americas SOB anymore. I think cut and cut cleanly was just because Marcos had become a liability after backing him for too long, and finally the Filipinos did it. Marcos had some dirt on a few US backers so they helped him leave.
Some hits and some misses in US strategy over the years. In Germany they did well – had the US gone by the Morgenthau plan to destroy German industry instead of the Marshall plan – which won also because German-Americans clamored to help their cousins – Germany might have been in a similar situation to the Philippines now in 1968, when the young started asking about what happened during the war and the old farts still there started trying to revise history. But Germany had a functioning democracy at least on paper, in spirit not really yet, and an economy that had recovered slightly. Pro-American, deeply Catholic Christian Democrats ran the place in a semi-dictatorial manner, the first Social Democrats to gain power were reviled as socialist traitors. But that was overcome. What appalls me in the Philippines is the relative lack of democratic manners, simple. Political differences are normal, but learning how to be gentlemanly about it matters. Finally center, center-right and center-left parties – Liberals, Christian Democrats and Social Democrats – agreed on an implicit code of conduct among civilized democrats in West Germany, consigning conspiracy theorists and anti-democrats to the lunatic fringe together with Area 51 believers. In the Philippines lunatic fringe seems mainstream now.
it is like conversing with the automated responses you get when you call a hotline!
“The true war is for the hearts and minds of the undecided who are also reading the discussions.”
I agree with Irineo on this.
And with Josephivo on “knowing where the tap is and looking at who controls the tap”. We do have to go back to how the educational system works, how it churns out graduates who either have not been taught how to think critically or worse have been fed with false or mistaken ideas. And then there are the parents. Sigh. And of course mass media that often only make things worse.
The good news is that there are a number of Filipinos who are becoming proactive and are taking a more active hand in taking on the sources of the leaks in the system, so to speak. Philippine Tatler was recently inundated with complaints and vilified in social media for featuring a ‘beautiful’ Imee Marcos as its cover. Initially opting to delete critical comments on their Facebook page, they eventually relented and allowed the negative Marcos commentary in their own page when netizens took the fight to twitter. Social media won the day.
“MALACAÑANG on Sunday hit back at Sen. Ferdinand “Bongbong” Marcos Jr. for making “sweeping remarks without the benefit of tangible proof” against the Aquino administration … ”
Read more: http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/730041/palace-to-marcos-prove-claims-vs-admin#ixzz3oJPGbzVC
Thank goodness, Malacanang has graduated Law 101. They are asking for ….. EVIDENCES !!!! I am hoping BongBong will not respond he got WITNESSES and AFFIDAVITS.
ok, since the millennials who maybe victims of the Marcoses’ brainwashing and propaganda here is the quite long list of Marcos Graft. (also to preserve this in the current article)
Marcos Graft Staggering
Investigators Trace Billions in Holdings
March 23, 1986|By John Crewdson, Chicago Tribune.
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1986-03-23/news/8601210600_1_jose-y-campos-eduardo-cojuangco-ferdinand-marcos/3
This article was based on reporting by Terry Atlas, Janet Cawley, James Coates, John Crewdson, Ray Gibson, Philip Lentz, James O`Shea and Joseph A. Reaves.
Though family members on both sides were carefully looked after, few received more than figurehead responsibility. It was by using his most trusted lieutenants, the men who referred to themselves as his “cronies,” that Marcos would gain a near-stranglehold on the Philippine economy .
Eduardo Cojuangco became the “Coconut King,”
Antonio Floreindo the “Banana King,”
Herminio Disini the “Tobacco King,”
Jose Campos the “Pharmaceutical King,”
Roberto Benedicto the “Sugar King.”
According to the buttons on the intercom system at Malacanang Palace, Ferdinand Marcos was simply “The King.”
Of all the cronies only two, Rolando Galpud, a prominent Manila banker, and Jose Campos, are described by those who know them as particularly able businessmen. But through their close associations with Marcos, all eventually achieved what would be considered extraordinary wealth and power even in a country many times the size of the Philippines.
“The Marcos style of management was like a wheel,” a prominent Filipino businessman said. “Marcos was the hub of the wheel. There were a lot of spokes leading to him, but the spokes didn`t touch each other.”
“Marcos always operated through cutouts,” said Richard Kessler of the Carnegie Endowment for Peace, a close observer of Philippine affairs. “Then he would take percentages of things. What they did was give Marcos their cut. He hit everybody up for a percentage, and the way they raised it was up to them. ”
Among the cronies:
— Eduardo Cojuangco, who has known Marcos since the days they served together in the Philippine Congress . Installed as head of the Philippine Coconut Authority, he acquired a near-monopoly on the export of coconut oil from the islands. After Marcos put him in charge of the Philippine Racing Commission, Cojuangco doubled the number of racing days each year, as well as the government `s ”handle. ”
— Antonio Floreindo, who was an obscure Ford dealer in Mindanao who made automobiles available to Marcos and his associates during Marcos` first campaign for the presidency. After the imposition of martial law, Marcos deeded to Floreindo a huge tract of land that had been a prison camp. Floreindo used prison labor to clear the land and began growing bananas. A frequent companion of Imelda Marcos on her foreign jaunts, Floreindo made a fortune in bananas and later acquired a U.S. company, the Revere Sugar Corp. of New York, in which Marcos is believed to be a major, if silent, partner.
— Herminio Disini Sr., who began his professional life as an accountant and now controls 50 corporations worth half a billion dollars. He began to accumulate his fortune after Marcos issued a martial law decree imposing a 100 percent duty on imported materials used by Disini`s competitors in the cigarette filter business, but not on those imported by Disini himself.
— Jose Y. Campos, godfather to two of Marcos` children, who rose from owning a drugstore in Manila`s Chinese district to become head of United Laboratories, the largest pharmaceutical concern in the Philippines, with $70 million in annual sales. United Labs, which got its start when Marcos granted it exclusive import licences, still supplies most of the drugs purchased by the government.
Campos contributed to Marcos` first campaign for Congress. During subsequent elections he would sell the government boxes of medical supplies for shipment to rural areas. The supplies, which were supposed to be nonpartisan aid, were sent in boxes stamped with the acronym for Medical Assistance to Rural Communities and Other Sectors–MARCOS.
— Roberto S. Benedicto, a law school classmate and fraternity brother of Marcos, who became president of the government-owned Philippine National Bank, ambassador to Japan and head of the national sugar monopoly. Though the source of the funds he used is unclear, Benedicto later bought the Royal Traders Bank, which loans money to sugar planters, and Northern Lines, which carries sugar to the U.S. It was the Philippine National Bank that administered what congressional investigators in the U.S. say was a slush fund used by the Marcos family to pay for personal travel.
— Rodolfo Cuenca, who headed the Manila-based Construction and Development Corp., which built many of the country`s major highways, dams and bridges during the Marcos regime. Government investigators in Manila say they have found documents suggesting that Marcos received millions of dollars in kickbacks on government construction contracts from Cuenca`s company and others.
— Roman Cruz, also a favorite of Imelda Marcos, who became head of the Government Services Insurance System (GSIS), the federal employees ` pension fund. In 1978, Marcos, said to have been angered by a bill he received from the Philippine Air Lines for his wife`s extensive foreign travels, nationalized the carrier and placed it under the control of GSIS. Cruz made himself president of the airline as well. In the end, Cruz was not as loyal to Marcos as some of the other cronies. A few days before the February election , he turned up at a rally for Aquino only to be roundly booed by the crowd.
— Rolando Gapud, the banker who became the top financial adviser to Marcos and his children and who is believed by Aquino government investigators to have fronted more deals for Marcos than any other member of the group. Until Marcos fell from power, Gapud controlled the Security Bank and Trust Co. of Manila, which previously had been owned by an old and wealthy Philippine family that supported Marcos` opponent in the 1969 election. The bank owed money to the government, and after martial law was declared, Marcos simply called in the loans, took the bank over and put Gapud in charge.
Asked how a system of government by crony could have persisted for so many years, a senior American diplomat in Manila said: “The system itself became an instrument for power. It got to the point where you couldn’t dismantle the system without destroying the power. ”
LOOTING WAS ASSUMED, BUT TECHNIQUES A SECRET
That Ferdinand Marcos, his relatives and cronies were helping themselves to public treasure was no secret in the Philippines. A closely held secret, however, was the multitude of techniques they used.
According to information unearthed by Aquino’s investigators, some of these techniques involved intricate bank-to-bank transfers and sophisticated double-entry bookkeeping, while others were a simple version of grab-and-run. In the latter category, there have been revelations that the Marcoses took with them to Hawaii $1.5 million worth of freshly minted Philippine pesos, that there was an abortive attempt by a Marcos associate to leave the country a day later with an even larger supply of new currency, and that the Philippines Central Bank found there were government bank notes in circulation bearing identical serial numbers. These disclosures have occasioned speculation that Marcos may have been printing a private supply of money.
Whether he was or not, there are numerous indications that government funds allocated for other purposes were diverted by Marcos or the cronies for their own purposes.
Money budgeted for Manila`s Metropolitan Museum was reportedly used to finance a mining venture nominally headed by Bienvenido Tantoco, the former Philippine ambassador to the Vatican and wife of Imelda Marcos` closest friend. Government investigators also say they believe that nearly $3 million missing from the accounts of the Manila Airport Authority were used by Marcos to finance his lavish, but ultimately unsuccessful, election campaign .
But graft also appears to have occurred on a larger scale. Under the Marcos government, investigators now say, the price paid by the Philippine National Oil Co. for shipping crude oil aboard its own tanker fleet was grossly inflated, with the difference going to the cronies. By some estimates, two of every three dollars allocated to the Philippine military units in the field never reached their intended recipients.
“In the Philippines, it`s not a question of whether the equipment is being stolen,” one Pentagon investigator said. “It`s simply a question of whether it has been taken away yet.”
The arrival of the Marcoses in Hawaii with $300,000 worth of gold bullion has raised questions in Manila and the U.S. about where and how the gold was obtained.
The Philippines is a major producer of gold, and before 1978 much of it was refined in the United States and Britain. But Marcos, acting under martial law, issued an order that year that all Philippine gold would be refined in the Philippines under the auspices of the central bank.
Reports that as much as 13,000 pounds of gold bullion is missing from the central bank`s stores were denied by Jose B. Fernandez Jr., current governor of the central bank. Ernesto Maceda, the current minister of natural resources , said he could neither confirm nor deny the reports.
But Maceda pointed out that private gold panners, many of them peasants, produce more than twice as much gold each year as the official mining companies and sell their nuggets to a syndicate reportedly controlled by Roberto Ongpin, Marcos’ minister of trade.
“It’s possible the gold panners is where Marcos got his gold,” Maceda said.
There is less question about how he acquired parts of his extensive art collection. Though some pieces appear to have been purchased outright–Mrs. Marcos brought with her to Hawaii receipts showing she had paid a New York dealer $2.5 million for a painting by Michelangelo–others may have been purloined.
Curators at Manila`s Metropolitan Museum have said that Mrs. Marcos and her daughter, Imee, would often ”borrow” paintings and other objects, including Russian icons, for display in their homes in the Philippines and abroad.
Many of the borrowed works were never returned, and some have apparently disappeared. The walls of a Manhattan townhouse owned by the Philippine government but used by Mrs. Marcos as her New York residence bear plaques indicating that a Picasso, a Van Gogh and a Brueghel that once hung there are gone.
Gone, as well, are large portions of the Philippines’ tropical rain forests, long valued for their production of such expensive hardwoods as teak and mahogany, the cutting and export of which is strictly controlled under Philippine law.
In an interview last week, Maceda said that about $960 million worth of hardwoods had been cut by Marcos’ friends and associates between 1974 and 1980 and smuggled out of the country. The cronies, Maceda said, ”are the only ones who got the logging concessions. “Their shipments, he said, were cleared for export on”instructions from the top.”
Two weeks ago, more than $100,000 worth of hardwood was recovered from Marcellino Barba, a Philippine air force colonel who is married to Ferdinand Marcos` sister Fortuna.
The cronies, Maceda said, “never complied with the reforestation agreements or selecting logging. What they’d do “is go in with a bulldozer and uproot everything.”
Of the Philippines’ 12 million hectares of forestland, about 7 million are now barren. Of the remaining 5 million hectares, less than half are virgin forests–a situation Maceda calls so ”critical” that there may be no forests left by the end of the century.
DID U.S. GOVERNMENT, COMPANIES CONTRIBUTE?
Of primary concern in this country are questions about whether the U.S. government and American corporations doing business in the Philippines have contributed, knowingly or otherwise, to the accumulation of the Marcos fortune.
One possible source of corruption is foreign assistance payments. In large part because of its strategic military value to the U.S., over the past 25 years the U.S. has sent the Philippines nearly $3 billion in aid, two-thirds of it nonmilitary, and given it an additional $1 billion in loans.
Two weeks ago, however, congressional auditors told Sen. Edward Kennedy (D., Mass.) that they had so far been unable to account for about $350 million of $460 million in U.S. aid sent to the Philippines between 1982 and 1985.
Most of the missing money, the auditors said, was among those funds not targeted for specific projects–including some that had been turned over for distribution to the Ministry of Human Settlements, headed by Imelda Marcos. After Mrs. Marcos used some U.S. funds to build a model rural village, she reportedly turned the vacant houses over to the families of her friends.
Of the U.S. military aid sent to the Philippines, according to Pentagon officials, about half is cash and the other half loans used to purchase equipment in the U.S.
Last year, however, the Pentagon insisted that further military shipments to the Philippines be carried on American ships, rather than the Philippine vessels then being used. One Pentagon source said the insistence was prompted by concern that some of the shipments were being diverted into the international black market in armaments.
A federal grand jury in Alexandria, Va., is investigating possible kickbacks to Marcos` associates in connection with Pentagon loans used to obtain $17 million worth of microwave communications devices for the Philippine armed forces.
The equipment, ordered by Gen. Fabian Ver, who served under Marcos as army chief of staff, was purchased from a California firm called Amworld, one of whose executives is Philippine businessman Raymond Mareno.
Pentagon sources familiar with the case said Amworld, which is owned by a Hong Kong-based corporation, had submitted invoices to the Defense Department showing that it had paid much more than it actually paid for the microwave equipment.
The excess funds, these sources said, had been traced by Pentagon investigators to bank accounts in Hong Kong and Switzerland controlled by Edna G. Camcam, a Filipino woman who is a close friend of Ver.
A lawyer for Amworld declined to discuss the ongoing investigation. But real estate records show that Edna G. Camcam owns $2.7 million worth of real estate in Manhattan, Long Island and California, including property in Los Angeles and a $1 million mansion in the San Francisco suburb of Hillsborough. There also are indications that some of the Marcos fortune was derived from the stiff “commissions” that U.S. and other foreign firms were required to pay to one or another of the cronies in return for licenses and contracts needed to do business in the Philippines.
A federal grand jury in Pittsburgh is looking into the payment of at least $11 million by the Westinghouse Electric Corp. to Herminio Disini, one of Marcos` closest friends, in return for Disini`s assistance in securing a contract to build the Philippines’ first nuclear-powered electrical generating plant.
That investigation is focusing on whether the payment to Disini was shared with Marcos after the contract was signed in 1976, something that earlier investigations by the Justice Department and the Securities and Exchange Commission were unable to establish.
The Aquino government has charged that the price of the $700 million power plant was inflated to cover the commissions paid to Disini.
Asked about rumors that American and other foreign companies were required to pay kickbacks of 10 percent to high Philippine government officials , a senior U.S. diplomat in Manila replied, “A lot of companies thought that was the cost of doing business here.”
Compared with the alternative, however, the kickbacks were almost tolerable. “The real danger,” said an American businessman in Manila, ”was the fear always hanging over you that your business would be sold out to one of the Marcos cronies. We were always afraid the day would come. ”
In an interview last week, Maceda said that about $960 million worth of hardwoods had been cut by Marcos` friends and associates between 1974 and 1980 and smuggled out of the country. The cronies, Maceda said, ”are the only ones who got the logging concessions.” Their shipments, he said, were cleared for export on “instructions from the top.”
Two weeks ago, more than $100,000 worth of hardwood was recovered from Marcellino Barba, a Philippine air force colonel who is married to Ferdinand Marcos` sister Fortuna.
The cronies, Maceda said, “never complied with the reforestation agreements or selecting logging.” What they’d do is “go in with a bulldozer and uproot everything.”
Of the Philippines’ 12 million hectares of forestland, about 7 million are now barren. Of the remaining 5 million hectares, less than half are virgin forests–a situation Maceda calls so “critical” that there may be no forests left by the end of the century.
DID U.S. GOVERNMENT, COMPANIES CONTRIBUTE?
Of primary concern in this country are questions about whether the U.S. government and American corporations doing business in the Philippines have contributed, knowingly or otherwise, to the accumulation of the Marcos fortune.
One possible source of corruption is foreign assistance payments. In large part because of its strategic military value to the U.S., over the past 25 years the U.S. has sent the Philippines nearly $3 billion in aid, two-thirds of it nonmilitary, and given it an additional $1 billion in loans.
Two weeks ago, however, congressional auditors told Sen. Edward Kennedy (D., Mass.) that they had so far been unable to account for about $350 million of $460 million in U.S. aid sent to the Philippines between 1982 and 1985.
Most of the missing money, the auditors said, was among those funds not targeted for specific projects–including some that had been turned over for distribution to the Ministry of Human Settlements, headed by Imelda Marcos. After Mrs. Marcos used some U.S. funds to build a model rural village, she reportedly turned the vacant houses over to the families of her friends.
Of the U.S. military aid sent to the Philippines, according to Pentagon officials, about half is cash and the other half loans used to purchase equipment in the U.S.
Last year, however, the Pentagon insisted that further military shipments to the Philippines be carried on American ships, rather than the Philippine vessels then being used. One Pentagon source said the insistence was prompted by concern that some of the shipments were being diverted into the international black market in armaments.
A federal grand jury in Alexandria, Va., is investigating possible kickbacks to Marcos’ associates in connection with Pentagon loans used to obtain $17 million worth of microwave communications devices for the Philippine armed forces.
The equipment, ordered by Gen. Fabian Ver, who served under Marcos as army chief of staff, was purchased from a California firm called Amworld, one of whose executives is Philippine businessman Raymond Mareno.
Pentagon sources familiar with the case said Amworld, which is owned by a Hong Kong-based corporation, had submitted invoices to the Defense Department showing that it had paid much more than it actually paid for the microwave equipment.
The excess funds, these sources said, had been traced by Pentagon investigators to bank accounts in Hong Kong and Switzerland controlled by Edna G. Camcam, a Filipino woman who is a close friend of Ver.
A lawyer for Amworld declined to discuss the ongoing investigation. But real estate records show that Edna G. Camcam owns $2.7 million worth of real estate in Manhattan, Long Island and California, including property in Los Angeles and a $1 million mansion in the San Francisco suburb of Hillsborough. There also are indications that some of the Marcos fortune was derived from the stiff “commissions” that U.S. and other foreign firms were required to pay to one or another of the cronies in return for licenses and contracts needed to do business in the Philippines.
A federal grand jury in Pittsburgh is looking into the payment of at least $11 million by the Westinghouse Electric Corp. to Herminio Disini, one of Marcos` closest friends, in return for Disini`s assistance in securing a contract to build the Philippines` first nuclear-powered electrical generating plant.
That investigation is focusing on whether the payment to Disini was shared with Marcos after the contract was signed in 1976, something that earlier investigations by the Justice Department and the Securities and Exchange Commission were unable to establish.
The Aquino government has charged that the price of the $700 million power plant was inflated to cover the commissions paid to Disini.
Asked about rumors that American and other foreign companies were required to pay kickbacks of 10 percent to high Philippine government officials , a senior U.S. diplomat in Manila replied, “A lot of companies thought that was the cost of doing business here.”
Compared with the alternative, however, the kickbacks were almost tolerable. “The real danger,” said an American businessman in Manila, “was the fear always hanging over you that your business would be sold out to one of the Marcos cronies. We were always afraid the day would come. ”
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1986-03-23/news/8601210600_1_jose-y-campos-eduardo-cojuangco-ferdinand-marcos/3
Pamilya ng kawatan.
http://www.icij.org/offshore/ferdinand-marcos-daughter-tied-offshore-trust-caribbean
https://professionalheckler.wordpress.com/tag/imee-marcos-secret-accounts/
From the genius,the professional heckler who got a trick or two from mercedez.
Hey Karl! Thanks for the links! After reading the discussions here, we need to push back and push it hard!
Kapal ng mga muka nitong pamilya nato ke uncle Bob ang channel 7.
http://www.gmanetwork.com/news/story/53105/money/imee-claims-gma-shares-of-duavit-ipo-still-ond
For thoer insisting or using hyperbole when they say that the marcises never lost a case.
http://globalnation.inquirer.net/54454/marcoses-lose-us-appeal
I am a Filipino and I wish to know the truth not just propaganda talk. I am not a pro Narcos either. There are many cases filed against the Family of FE Marcos regading ill goten wealth. So nany years have passed I am wondering why there is no result that
proved these accusations are true. Gentleman can you give me an answer? Thank you.
If you read the discussion thread, you will find what you are looking for. Or go directly to this comment if you are rushed:
Imelda was convicted years ago of a case that was overturned at the Supreme Court here. Meanwhile, the Marcoses lost a “human rights abuse” case in Honolulu and an asset forfeiture case in Singapore. The World Bank-UN Office on Drugs and Crime’s Stolen Asset Recovery (StAR) Initiative has some “cases” on file on the moneys recovered from the Marcoses.
Those cases probably won’t mean anything to some people, though they should give you some ideas.
we have a saying in my culture it is ,the apple never falls far from the tree enough said
Please watch and share the video if you love our country!!
https://www.facebook.com/groups/871225846280584/890635017673000/?notif_t=group_activity
How can one say that the money of the marcoses are ill gotten wealth?how rich are the filipinos before?wherein taxes are not high and ofw remitances are not that souring.not like nowadays wherein our government are benefitting from millions of pesos being remitted and bpo employees are paying high taxes noy o mention millions of pesos being paid by invrstors.during the marcoses do we have foreign investors?do we we have a lot of ofw?do wevhave bpo?try to hink about it are we that rich during the marcoses?or is it the marcoses that are rich and had given part of their riches to the filipinos such that our way of lives before are a lot easier compare today? Does anyone ever proved that those whom the goverment from the marcoses are indeed from the filipino people?if so why are they still at large? Should be they he behind bars? Orbis it because they are still enjoying their freedom is because the did not do anything and that they are the one who was robbed..it is simple as this, if one is gulity and no man can prove it, a divine powers will find its way to let you pay for what youve done but still even the divine law has not passed on its judgment.
Thank you for destroying my confidence in the rationality of mankind. Kindly read the discussion comments and you will see the explanations of the amounts stolen and the various legal endeavors to recover the stolen money.
“I be done seen everything when I seen an elephant fly.” The crows in Disney’s Dumbo.
The Marcoses ” . . . are the one who was robbed.” Eleanor
The crows were wrong.
“It truly is difficult to wake up somebody who is only pretending to be awake” – that’s the kindest remark that I can give her. I typed 3 realistic names but deleted it. She is just unbelievable!!!!!!!!!!!!!
er…pretending to be asleep…..aaaargghh!
see Eleanor Rigby what you’ve done to me? that’s not a typo….!!!!?
Eleanor Rigby, picks up the rice
In the church where a wedding has been
Lives in a dream
Waits at the window, wearing the face
That she keeps in a jar by the door
Who is it for
🙂 🙂 🙂
Jesus was condemned in an official trial, Pilatus was not. So Pilatus who kept his freedom is the good guy in your movie?
And the common people clamored for the thief to be taken off the cross, not Jesus…
NOTES FROM THE EDITOR: The 2016 election will be about patience. Do people have the patience to follow the straight path and continue to work on corruption and infrastructure and poverty reduction? ….. ”
Liberal Party bbares slate dubbed “Koalition ng DAANG matuwid”. OK, let us dissect and autopsy.
Bisayas and Mindanaw speaks Bisayan and a variation of it. North and South of Metro Manila speaks a different dialect totally different from Talagog. Therefore, only 20% of Filipinos understand “KOALITION NG DAANG MATUWID”
“Daang” to Bisayan is “Old”. What Bisdakers understand from the slogan is “KOALITION OF OLD MATUWID” It means it is STILL BALUKTOT NA MATUWID. Not Straight Matuwid. So, therefore, it is ‘SAME ‘O, SAME ‘O’.
They’d better check their slogan or come up with another one to avoid misinterpretation. I do not mind if Mar cannot make it to Malacanang. I am just worried what will happen to the sanity of prima donna First Lady Anxiously Waiting tweedling her toes, tweedling her thumb. We do not want to happen when she lost it the year Mar lost to Binay. Let us be reminded she works in the media. She’s vindictive. She’s very political. She’s just not going to sit it out.
Think of it as DAGHANG MATUWID – very straight in Visayan language gid…
Let bbm prove his worth
Give time to watch.
Hey I have something called skepticism, which makes me want to verify first, read reputable sources, go to reputable schools, ask respectable adults, eat properly and take care of my health
Have you done that instead of believing a Youtube post? Was Hitler the son of Rizal? Were there ancient aliens? Were the moon landings a hoax? Am I supposed to believe that because of Youtube posts?
Where did you go to school, Arzen Cupcupin? Who are your parents? What did they tell you?
” Was Hitler the son of Rizal? ” Of course… and Hitler was my grandfather!
Therefore I am descended from two national heros…. ang mahirap lang baka paniwalaan pa ito ng mga tao… kung masama lang sana ako mauuto ko talaga ang buong Pilipinas. 😦
There, there. 😀
Pls watch then its up to us.
Indeed up to each of us, depending what each wants to believe.
What do you honestly believe?
Pls watch if its true or not its up to you.
Further dropping of links will be dumped into the spam bucket. This is the third you have dropped here. The convention on this blog is to cite why a link is provided so readers know whether or not it is worth their time to click over.
So you believed a youtube video from an unknown sources based on unverified information? You are such a guillible person. I have link to a video of elvis presley alive today, just tell me if you want it
Andrew! Look what your article has done, it invited an avalanche of Marcos loyalists, trolls and propagandists! their loot is doing the work!
ha ha ha
Sharing mine as well and this is for the younger generation: http://x.rappler.com/x/UPform5/1444451476632-Why-I-Became-A-Non-Believer-Of-Marcos-And-Martial
Please do a summary of links for the convenience of readers. Don’t use the blog as a dumping platform. It is a discussion thread.
*******
Floyd, thank you. The questions you raise should lead any serious researcher to the truth about martial law. It is to be hoped that neo-Marcos loyalists read your post and dispassionately search for the answers to your pointed questions. BTW, great tableau you have there.
*****
Text of the link of Floyd
Why I Became A Non-Believer Of Marcos And Martial Law
Writing this, will generate the ire of my family but I think it behooves me to share my story as I think that many young people would benefit from this (I hope)
My name is Floyd Gonda, I am a growth hacker. I own Superkaizen.com and I am also a recovering procrastinator.
Re
For starters I did not experience the atrocities of martial law, In fact, I was not yet born at the time.
I was born in 1980 in a family hailing from the north (Echague, Isabela), one that can talk in Ilocano, Ibanag, and Yogad.
Needless to say, I grew up in a family that benefited from martial law.
Some of our relatives worked under the offices of the government at that time and provided food for our table. One can say that the milk I was given was supplied for by the government so one can only imagine how grateful my family was towards Marcos.
I was indoctrinated from a very young age that Marcos was the real hero of EDSA, that martial law was heaven for the country, that Cory and Ninoy were not good people.
If I ask why, they would answer- it was because Marcos said so, and THEY said so, and that’s the end of it.
You see, in our family you never question authority, everything they said is the law. That was how they were brought up back in the province.
I would go to school shouting “Marcos, Marcos, Marcos Pa Rin!” complete with the V sign and the red shirt that I was so proud to wear.
I shun the color yellow and would look down on it every chance I get.
So for years I glorified Marcos and would always defend his legacy, always using the same arguments of Marcos Loyalists like:
Marcos built this and built that…
It was Imelda’s fault and not Marcos on why there are problems at that time…
Marcos made the country rich…
Marcos made the country peaceful…
Marcos stopped communists from overrunning the country…
Marcos cleaned everything… from trash to squatters…
Marcos is the most intelligent and most able President ever and he was also a war hero…
EDSA revolution happened but look at what it made the country into a total mess, compared to Marcos’ Philippine heaven.
All of our politicians steal from the country at least Marcos did something out of it…
The country was the tiger of Asia at the time of Marcos, but look at it now we are swimming in poverty…
(This list I would later see when Facebook came to light, being spread around and random people just sharing it)
I even met the late President Cory Aquino, but I just looked at her and thought she corrupted the country. (Until now I am regretting that episode of my life)
The Conversion
Now how did I become a non-believer of martial law?
How could an ardent, well-trained from birth Marcos lover become one of those people standing up on FB whenever people are spreading the legacy of Marcos?
What triggered my conversion?
To tell you the truth it wasn’t easy, I mean it entails thinking over a lot of things and swallowing my pride.
And that is harder than most things to accept.
To admit and recognize that there is a problem with what I believe.
You see, I can be a believer of martial law but by doing so would also mean I would have to deny the atrocities and injustices that happened back then.
Consequently, it would also mean being a believer of martial law and not denying all the atrocities and injustices that happened back then while looking at it as “necessary.”
And that makes it a moral dilemma.
I have to ask myself:
Did these things (incarceration, tortures, disappearances, murders) happen? If so why?
Why was martial law proclaimed in the first place?
Who benefited from martial law?
Why was there an EDSA revolution?
Was EDSA revolution necessary?
Who were Ninoy Aquino and his wife?
Who were the people who suffered under martial law and what were their stories?
Why did people hate Marcos at that time?
What was the state of the country at that time?
If Marcos was so good why can’t he control Imelda?
If Marcos was so good, why did these things (incarceration, tortures, disappearances, salvaging, murders) happen under his watch?
What was Marcos’ reason for declaring martial law and why?
Did Marcos steal money from the country? If yes how much?
If I was one of the victims of the abuses of Martial law what would I feel?
If one of my loved ones was a victim of Martial law what would I feel?
If a family of mine got tortured, disappeared and murdered by Martial law would I still continue to support it?
“WHY DO I BELIEVE WHAT I BELIEVE ABOUT MARTIAL LAW?”
I realize that I have to ask these questions and look at the evidence and go to where it leads me.
I would have to look at facts and evidence from outside of the country, from people and organizations that are not influenced by the political forces of the government.
I realize that I cannot just justify Martial Law based on my opinion, because even though I may have the right to do so I cannot have the right to have my own facts.
People say (people I engage in FB on martial law) that I am waxing emotional on how I approach Martial law.
They say that Martial law also did something good for the country despite its shortcomings.
The thing is I cannot agree to that statement.
Because it is short as saying that an abusive husband is still a moral person as long as he provides for the family.
I believed that statement back then, and for the life of me will do anything in my capacity to stop the future generations in doing so.
I posted this on my FB timeline….together with the tableau… all millennials should read this!
This just show how shallow the youth has become. They are so tied to social media, everything they learn or see there, they believe as truth. Who can blame them, they spend more time looking at screens that talking with other people or even school. Remember, we are the most “social media” country in the world, this was bound to happen.
A few years ago we are just the texting capital of the world.
In 1997, the Swiss Federal Supreme Court established that the Marcos asset in Credit Suisse were of CRIMINAL ORIGIN. IN an interview with Raissa Robles in 2011, Bongbong Marcos confirmed that he had a direct hand in trying to withdraw @213 million from the Swiss Bank in 1986 by issuing a Power of Attorney to Michael de Guzman. This attempt prompted the court to declare the accounts frozen and give the assets back to the Philippine Government in 20013. In 2003, the Philippine Government won the forfeiture case against the Marcoses in Supreme Court.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wave_(novel) – this is what I am reminded of:
The setting of the book is Gordon High School in Spring 1969. The plot revolves around a history teacher Mr. Ben Ross, his high school students, and an experiment he conducts in an attempt to teach them about how it may have been living in Third Reich Germany. Unsatisfied with his own inability to answer his students’ earnest questions of how and why, Mr. Ross initiates the experiment (The Wave) in hopes that it answers the question of why the Germans allowed Adolf Hitler and the Nazi Party to rise to power, acting in a manner inconsistent with their own pre-existing moral values.
Ross considers this and plans an experiment: the next day, he starts to indoctrinate the class using the slogan STRENGTH THROUGH DISCIPLINE. The class reacts well to this, embracing the sense of empowerment it gives them, and they continue their newly disciplined behavior into a second day of class, surprising Ross. He decides to take the experiment further and create a group, The Wave, adding two more slogans—STRENGTH THROUGH COMMUNITY and STRENGTH THROUGH ACTION—which leads to further rules of conduct and an organizational structure.
Laurie Saunders, a student in Mr. Ross’s class, starts to think that The Wave is having too much of an impact. Laurie receives a letter for the school paper, of which she is editor in chief, detailing how members try to recruit others with bullying. That weekend, the football team is unable to win against Clarkstown, as their newfound drive does not compensate for a lack of proper training and planning. Laurie’s boyfriend David is confused by this turn of events, while Laurie and her staff on The Grapevine plan a special issue of the paper devoted exclusively to The Wave and the negative impact it has had on the school. While some thank her, especially the teachers and the principal, others do not. David, who has been in The Wave since the beginning, tries to get her to stop bad-mouthing it. He eventually shoves her to the ground and this makes him realize how dangerous The Wave really is. Now united in the belief that The Wave must be stopped, Laurie and David go to the Ross home in order to convince Ben Ross to terminate the program. He tells them he will do exactly that, but that they must trust his moves the next day.
He calls a Wave meeting in the auditorium and requests that only Wave members be present. They gather in a similar fashion to the Nazi rallies, even equipped with banners and armbands emblazoned with the Wave. Ben tells The Wave members that they are only one in many schools across the nation that is involved in the Wave, and that they are about to see the leader of the whole organization and that he is going to speak to all of them on television to create a National Wave Party for Youths. Everyone is shocked when Mr. Ross projects the image of Adolf Hitler. He explains that there is no leader, and that there is no National Wave Party. If there were a leader, it would be the man on the projection screen. He explains how their obedience led them to act like Nazis. The shocked students drop all their Wave-branded trinkets and items, and slowly leave the room. As Ben turns to leave, the one person who really flourished in the Wave, Robert, is standing alone, upset that The Wave ended. During The Wave, he was finally accepted as an equal, no one picked on him, and he had friends, but his new-found social status is now worthless without The Wave. Mr. Ross tries to cheer him up by commenting on his tie and suit, and they walk out together to talk and grab “a bite to eat”.
madaling araw, may nagnanakaw ng manok sa kulungan, hinuli ng may-ari, pinutulan ng …
with apologies to the composers of the “Bagong Lipunan” song which we kids liked to make fun of.
It is known to those who have read about Ferdinand Marcos that he studied how Hitler rose to power.
Dictatorships always recruited the marginalized. The original street fighters of the Nazis were jobless and less educated Germans after WW1. Military people who hated the new democracy and wanted to go back to the “glory” of the old Empire were on the organized side. Tabloids controlled by ruthless oligarchs like Hugenberg fanned the flames against the immature democracy of Weimar. Parliament was blocked by many small political parties. Regionalism and centralism fought each other viciously. The retail sector and agricultural trade was dominated by successful Germans of Jewish descent whom everybody was jealous of. High-powered intellectuals were there but were too afraid to speak out politically. Communists sabotaged every constructive effort, hoping that making the people suffer would get them into power. Then in 1933, the “savior” came…
naiinis sila kasi nababawasan na ang hindi naniniwala sa mga yelowerrrrrs!!!! hehehe!!!
DORK!!
I appreciate a guy who announces himself at the door.
the reason the Marcoses still appeal to many is that every politicians they see are just as corrupt without nothing to show. they just point the LRT, the geothermal plans, the hospitals, the highway system, the expressways..
im no marcos fan but its hard to argue with the ignoramuses out there whey they say..who built the highways? (Most of it was funded by war reparations). the succeeding govt should have made them 4-lane highways to differentiate their terms but it is still 2 lane highways..who could argue against that? or the Heart Center. the Lung Center which are being privatized now..
you could say he left the Philippines bankrupt..could not even service its debt in 1983.but these are just abstract to many people.what they see were the infrastructures left by him..not the economic crisis brought about by cronyism and economic mismanagement in the early 80s
I think you have nailed it, nagimasen. The Marcos era is “abstract” to Marcos followers, but lines at MRT are tangible evidence of the “failure” of the existing system.
they could cite too many things really..even the south china sea issue..they could say..no country would dare do that to the Philippines in his time..forgetting that our fairly new ships and jets..were courtesy of Uncle Sam and the fight against communist expansion in the 3rd world..and of course we hosted the 7th fleet and China was weak then too..
they also could not believe that even in his time, Malaysia already encroached on Philippine territory to seek out pirates in the sulo archipelago
After reading the comments in the article of Mr Pimentel, I felt very upset. Most of the people worshiping the Marcos family are young people who were born in the ’80s like me.
To the more matured Filipinos, please educate us more about the dark years under Marcos.
Zer, you can read this comment thread. It is long, but the details and passions are there.
The real plunder of the Philippines was committed by the Aquinos. Just look at all the wealth they sold off from the government to crooks like Lucio Tan. The pilipino is corrupt and dishonest at all levels. Today a simple case is bought off in the courts. The Court of Appeals is known to be a market. The SC can’t make a decision against the monies interests. More has been stolen under Cory and Noytard than anything taken by Marcos.
There is just one practical way for Bongbong to make amends to the Filipino people. Apologize, and back it up by returning the rest of the ill-gotten wealth.
Otherwise, he is just as evil as his father and mother, and should be rejected resolutely.
==========
Apologize and return the ill-gotten wealth and that’s it, everything will be back to normal?
If that’s the only thing that serves as an obstacle for Bongbong to make amends with the Filipino people I’m sure he would have done it pronto. But we all know it’s not really that simple.
In fact, I’m having a hard time understanding the logic behind that line. Bongbong is a Marcos, I get it. But he was not the one who ran the country for more than 20 years. He was not the one who ruled with iron fist and reigned with tyranny. The dictator was the father not the son. For him to apologize on something he is not the main person to be held responsible for is in the realm of preposterousness.
And the ill gotten wealth? Sure, we can all demand from him to return it but what’s the basis? Court cases has been filed since the ouster of Marcos, the father, but I doubt if there is one case out there against the son. I mean, I’m all for justice and fairness so long as we’re barking on the right tree.
Bongbong should be held to account on those issues that has something to do with him, personally. As a Marcos, I get it, he should be criticized for all the wrong things that happened under his father’s administration. But I don’t think it would be proper to judge him on the basis of what his father did during his watch.
If the intent is to trounce or defeat Bongbong it should be done on the basis of his personal merits or demerits and not because of the hate towards his father.
Those Filipinos who vote for Marcos Jr. deserve whatever that comes to them, and if that involves continuing a life of poverty under another Marcos presidency, then so be it. Filipinos will reap what they sow.
Not just poverty – this also: https://joeam.com/2015/10/13/mar-roxas-and-a-matter-of-trust/#comment-141357 – for all who say there were no human rights abuses, because I have read that in many places! These 16 pages PDF document what really happened then.
That’s true, but the other missing quality hereabouts – other than trust – is personal accountability. I’m confident they will find someone else to blame.
Is Andrew lim Filipino? Leave the Filipino people alone.
Are the Marcoses the only ones with ill-gotten wealth? (Remember he got most of the buried Japanese treasures of WWII).
No, he obviously is not the only one. But what’s the point, if there is one crook, the second should be given a free pass?