Knowledge rising in the Philippines
University students on the march against Marcos burial [Photo source: Rappler]
By Joe America
I think the Duterte Administration has a new enemy much stronger than the “Yellows”. It is knowledge, an awakening of Philippine universities and students to the offensiveness of the Marcos burial. An awareness of history, a compassion for victims, and an understanding that this sneaky burial was simply not right. An awareness that Marcos was not a hero, but the great destroyer of the Philippine economy that left millions of dreams and opportunities lost in the rubble.
Marcos gifted the Philippines with a half-century of broken nation and a lot of pain and poverty, never acknowledged by the Marcos family. That’s what knowledge knows.
Knowledge knows that the burial had Duterte sponsorship.
Knowledge can’t be swept under the rug by thousands of trolls pounding out propaganda on behalf of the State.
Knowledge is not political. It has no leader to crucify, no senator to set up as scape goat to distract attention from thousands of Filipinos being murdered, mostly poor people. It is knowledge.
In one of the most extreme ironies in this century, we can see that a wrong-headed deed promoted by the President of the Philippines awakened knowledge, through its disciples, people who actually read books and are not internet zombies.
Now the trolls will call them “elitists”, and Mocha Uson and Sass Sasot will condemn students and schools in an effort to put out the fires. But that can only inflame them more because knowledge knows truth from fiction and decency from indecency.
The Marcos burial awakened knowledge, and along with it, hope.
The young people of the Philippines, and the institutions to which they belong, have done Filipinos proud. They stood up. For truth, for decency, for honor.
It will be interesting to see, should the burial be undone by Duterte or the courts, whether or not they will sit back down. Will they get distracted by the telesyres in the Senate and House? By Facebook chatter? Or will knowledge continue to rise to welcome and arm the activists, to enlighten the gullible, and to push the Philippines toward modern thinking? Thinking that does not countenance EJKs or the death penalty or jailing 9 year-olds. Or running a government with sycophants who do not put the people first, but themselves and their allegiance to a President, right or wrong.
Knowledge is great.
It knows wrong.
It knows right.
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The Society of Honor by Joe America 
Amen. Yes, this new movement is led by knowledge, by the country’s top academic institutions, no less. It will burn forever bright, because nothing can suppress it.
Ignorance, superstition, poor scholarship, plain stupidity can be defeated.
Putting this link here because it is the best rebuttal to historical revisionism and plain stupidity:
http://www.rappler.com/thought-leaders/135054-pro-marcos-propaganda-too-hip-for-own-good
Thanks for that article. It is a must read, to understand the misconceptions about who backs Marcos, and of course, ignorance of a lot of backers.
It’s been rumored that Grand Ayatollah Khomeini’s doctors were Filipinos, who were part of a cadre of Filipino doctors and nurses sent there by the Marcos regime, when Iran was still under the Shah —- after the revolution , they stayed and continued their efforts, a couple of them actually rose thru the ranks after and got as high up as becoming the Grand Ayatollah’s trusted doctors.
Like I’ve stated before Filipinos occupy some prime spots in the Middle East, as doctors and engineers, but also as lowly maids and servants, becoming very close to their wards—- hence gaining influence and trust. There’s no other nation that’s so horizontally connected globally… So I’ve always scoffed at this gullibility narrative of Filipinos, they are hipsters in every sense of the word.
As for revisionism, it reminded me of millipedes in the Philippines, and this BBC doc I’ve just watched: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-LwQ0ZiTYkQ
(had I knowned millipedes were a narcotics, I’d have ate some during my stay there, LOL! karl, I’m just kidding of course don’t try it.
But speaking of narcotics, keep an eye on the South African Mandrax for Abalone barter with the Chinese , as Shabu becomes further criminalized, you guys might end up with something similar to the Abalone-for-Mandrax trade, read (and Google) here : http://www.georgeherald.com/news/News/General/159497/Mandrax-and-abalone-seized
How did you feel after eating millipedes, did you do it one leg at a time?
1. I am guessing that a significant percentage of The Society of Honor: The Philippines’ faithful (participants) are from the Baby Boomer generation. Perhaps this article provides “good to know” Knowledge:
http://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/national/article117218343.html
2. This 2nd article, from the publication owned by the suddenly notorious Trump son-in-law (Ivanka Trump’s husband) Jared Kushner, is probably as equally related to the previous ‘disinformation blog’ as this blog about ‘Knowledge’.:
http://observer.com/2016/11/the-kremlin-didnt-sink-hillary-obama-did/
Obama: Last week, President Obama denounced the attention generated by fake news, saying, “If we are not serious about facts and what’s true and what’s not … If we can’t discriminate between serious arguments and propaganda, then we have problems.”
– above was taken from a USA Today story on Fake News: http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2016/11/25/reports-russian-operation-boosted-fake-news-phenomenon/94424206/
http://www.gmanetwork.com/news/story/217569/news/nation/palace-sees-no-issue-in-marcos-inclusion-in-afp-hall-of-heroes …these should not have happened on the 1st place!Marcos is not a hero.
We have discounted marcos as a hero and burying him at lnmb will not make him a hero so what’s your problem? Remember not all dead buried there are heroes including the dog so what’s the fuss over marcos burial at that piece of land? He is entitled to it being a former president and a soldier that’s all. You are too unreasonable!
This is an interesting issue,
so Marcos’ eligibility for burial was simply that he was a former soldier (and former President), no need to satisfy other criterias?
For Arlington cemetery , which I think is the equivalent to this Libingan, has more stringent eligibility ,
http://www.arlingtoncemetery.mil/Funerals/Scheduling-a-Funeral/Establishing-Eligibility/Ground-Burial
Thanks for asking. I merely observe students and educators speaking out. Your issue is with them. The ‘problem’ I hear most is that the Marcoses have retained wealth stolen by the dictator, and have never apologized or acknowledged the misdeeds and damage done during the Marcos stint as dictator. I suppose I would ask, why do you so discount history and the pains of those imprisoned, tortured, or impoverished by very bad leadership? Why is such a provocative deed as this burial necessary? And why was the burial done secretly?
Felicity
I don’t expect you to understand the high values that are being discussed here. But the simple fact of where Cory’s dog was buried is a recorded fact that people like you are simply too lazy to try to fact check. That dog’s name is Shadow and it was buried in Malacanang. And for goodness sake it was not Cory’s dog but a bomb sniffer in the employ of Malacanang security.
It’s called LNMB, hero’s cemetery. Not president’s cemetery. Many of the country’s best presidents aren’t even buried there
And oh, we know there is a dog buried there recently. You can fact check this one easily.
LOL…”And oh, we know there is a dog buried there recently. You can fact check this one easily.”
The nonsense that went around in some social media was that Cory’s dog is buried there.
That is fake of course. Just like everybody knows that the Aquinos are NOT buried there.
And the Aquino couple deserves spots at the LNMB.
👍.
true,I know d dog, ha,ha, nice one….
We now need immediate action. Let those that claim love oaf country lead the way. Let those in the religious life lead as was then during the martial law days. Today and then is no different. Today is far more grievous.
So true Joeam. It’s the knowledge and the awareness of what happened in the past. I admire those young people who are making their voices heard.
I had that towering feeling when I joined UP students on November 18th first in front of Palma Hall in Diliman, and second when they marched about two kilometers to meet their counterparts in Miriam College and Ateneo de Manila on Katipunan avenue. Millennials weren’t asleep after all. They know what’s going on, and just like their parents who came from the seventies they fired for effect in rounding out the issue at hand, presenting it in bite-size portions by way of chants, tarpaulins and placards. And the same smiles. Dictators and would-be dictators are on notice: millennials love life just as they love their gadgets, the same way they love their country. The din of protest could be heard all the way to Peru. May Diyos talaga.
Knowledge is power — the very soul of People Power! A country is only as strong as her people’s memory. (Need I add: memory is fount of knowledge.) And what glorious irony! the youth, the millennials, whom Andanar castigates as “temperamental brats” are at the forefront of our people’s memory: unquenchable knowledge of the thief-tyrant Marcos and his heirs and his present-day “basket of deplorables.”
Perfect article for the times.
*******
LG, Exactly what I had in mind. You said it first.
Knowledge was almost KO’ed in the last so many rounds — elections, anti-drug wars, turncoats and political realignments, congressional hearings, and state visits.
Let’s hope that knowledge beats ignorance this time around.
*****
The new militants, Millennials and Not So, may not stop protesting till the the body of the First Deplorable is reburied someplace else, maybe when the Second Deplorable, who sanctioned the former’s LNMB burial, is ousted by the noted militants. History does repeat itself.
During the campaign period, we thought the millenials are for BBM, then he lost.
Now the students are aware of attempts to revise history,kudos to their professors,and the survivors of martial law abuses.
Reading a comment below, I need this clarified.They were not ordered by their professors to rally, when I applauded the professors and the survivors,because they were thaught well by history.
They are from the top schools, how can they be a product of ignorance?
karl,
The sad irony for the living Marcoses is that they wanted to enhance their political status and future with this burial. Instead, the Marcoses by their acts have helped awaken and stimulate the youth to review their history aided by a combination of their teachers and the social media — the same social media used, too, by the Marcoses to further their ends. History may tell whether the Marcoses made a big blunder or not.
CBCP Archbishop Villegas said that instead of using the dead as a political tool, the Marcoses and their supporters should have instead prayed for the soul of Marcos. His soul I am sure is not being helped by his victims and now the youth heaping all those ugly words and curses on him.
I have a feeling that the rage on the SC Justices, and yes on the President too, reinforced the rage on the Marcoses — as if this contributory anger or rage help to bring the amplitude of rage on the Marcoses to some virtual “resonance.”
👍🏻
Watching the news, I was dismayed by the accusations of Duterte supporters, one was my high school class mate Atty Bong Suntay. They say that same lame stuff that LP was behind funding the rallies for the benefit of Leni. The youth spoke well, they say that if it is for them(admin),they are praised as the future of our nation, and if it is against them, then they were brain washed.
Karl
Look at the positive side. The tables have turned and they are misreading the people’s sentiments at their own peril. The same way Roxas people didn’t read the ground well going into the election.
Correct.👍🏻
“Thinking that does not countenance EJKs or the death penalty or jailing 9 year-olds.”
Not to be so technical but what is this i read about jailing 9 year old?
Proposed legislation being pressed in the House and favored by the President calls for reducing the age of criminal liability to 9 years old.
No Joe, it is reducing the age of criminal RESPONSIBILITY to 9 years old, there is a difference between criminal responsibility and criminal liability. Criminal responsibility refers to what the person is thinking when he/she commits a crime. Saying to jail a 9 year old kid is quite a not correct statement. Our current law prohibits jailing a person ages 17 and below, even that 17 year old committed rape or murder.
The proposed legislation is actually an amendment to the Pangilinan Law. That law states that children ages above 15 but lower 18 is exempted from criminal liability but should be subjected to intervention program or could be subjected to diversion program if they acted with discernment. The proposed legislation simply amends the “ABOVE 15” to “ABOVE 9.” Intervention program usually involves educational and counseling programs. Diversion program involves the determination of the responsibility and the treatment of the minor who committed a crime but not really a legal proceedings.
I’ll have to get a copy of the legislation to get better informed. I know many people are concerned about it. I appreciate the briefing, and hope the likely law and implementation are compassionate, reflecting an awareness that kids that young are at the forming age.
Thank you for your clarification, but at present you see younger kids in city jails.It is well documented.
Andres
It’s criminal liability — unless you interpret different from the horse’s mouth.
http://politics.com.ph/alvarez-minimum-age-criminal-liability-9-years-old-final/
Are they enemies? They are persuaded by the CBCP, Nuns and Priests to rally, hiding or camouflage under the Marcos burial. This is plan B, C, and D under the master plan of plotting the downfall of the Duterte’s Presidency. Narco Monies, Oilgarchs, Foreign Funded ( mentioned already by the President ) and those who are planning to take over and enjoy drug trade and corruption. Visit the Philippines and see for yourself, if their are changes? We are also monitoring and watching, Arise! Shine! Overcome! Bangon Pilipino! Bangon Pilipinas!
On Wednesday, November 23, 2016, The Society of Honor: the Philippines wrote:
> The Society of Honor posted: ” By Joe America I think the Duterte > Administration has a new enemy much stronger than the “Yellows”. It is > knowledge, an awakening of Philippine universities and students to the > offensiveness of the Marcos burial. An awareness of history, a compassion ” >
Come on dude, they were not persuaded but encourage. Its really up to them if they go out of the streets, which is all constitutional. The thing being protested is the burial of Marcos, not to oust PDuterte. And they should not blame PDuterte of the burial, it is the Supreme Court that decided it.
lol, sapilitan kaya pag papasali sa mga student..pati walng kamuwang muwang na mga bata isinasali ng mga madre. Punyeta.. yan ba ang karunungan..
Well, ramon, I see you continue to live in your alternative reality on the other side of the Pacific, from where you can discern the most evil of plots against Duterte. Are you able to pick up the House hearing on De Lima there in North America? It is important to see these things, you know, so you can factually determine who has agendas and who is for the Philippines. Not having that, I’d say you are just busy penning fictions from your own mind.
I too Joe is on the other side of the pacific. I can see clearly what is going on in our country, your’s and mine. I welcome this knowledge that I seriuosly thought was not there. More power to the millennials and may they persevere. Happy Thanksgiving everyone🦃
ramon, I was looking forward to your response about the illegality of protests, but fear I will not get one. I was surprised at the remark because this is what Article III, Bill of Rights of the Constitution says:
SECTION 4. No law shall be passed abridging the freedom of speech, of expression, or of the press, or the right of the people peaceably to assemble and petition the government for redress of grievances.
Hmmm… You seem anxious to wear that stormtrooper uniform.
The students were invited after knowing of the marcos burial. I have a daughter in school attending her class, I asked her if she joined.She didn’t because she has a project to finish but if not she said she’ll join. It’s really KNOWLEDGE…
Ramon, don’t be too pessimistic … cool man, cool. Such occurrence is just normal in a democracy like ours which has given us the freedom to express our personal feelings in writing, speaking and doing actions like those students joining rallies. What just happened were normal reactions to something knowledgeable people knew is absolutely wrong – burying Marcos as a hero at LNMB. That was done without narco monies, no foreign funding … but just pure human initiatives to strongly express that our SC could have rendered a very unjust decision!! Many believe that Duterte has directly influenced the outcome of the SC’s decision … since from the election campaign, this is one of his promise to be done. The wounds that the Marcos Regime had inflicted to many of our countrymen were too deep … to be easily be forgotten. This is the strong driving spirit that encourages many to join such street actions.
O dude can you please enhance your reading comprehension. Have to use our mind here not our mouth and keyboard.
Off topic.
Under Dutete, China’s Pres. Xi promised to help the Philippines grow the Philippine economy. Beware of such plans. The Philippines is poised to be next to Greece in the economic invasion of the Philippines by China, after relentless claim the SCS/WPS???
China shall lord over our workforce, as it does in Greece and some other (economically) needy nations where China invests in multi-infrastructures, particularly seaports, in the guise of generating jobs for the locals. All part of China’s vision to OWN the world through its Modern Maritime Silk Road?
LOVE THIS POST. Very busy with work now. More to follow when time is available.
Joe, thanks again for the short but timely and very relevant blog article.
The final outcome or resolution of these events starting from the enraging decision of the SC Justices; the deceptive burial of Marcos in a tomb complete with curious chambers according to Raissa; the awakened voices of the young — mainly university and college students — remains to be seen.
I can foresee at least two extreme resolutions:
* Duterte himself decides something to the general satisfaction of the young Filipinos — aptly labeled by a true hero, Rizal, to be the hope of the country.
* Duterte will somehow not be able to control the events that will lead to a change not to his and his allies liking.
I prefer the first item. About the second item, one can use one’s creative imagination on possible scenarios, but I would rather not venture to paint these scenarios.
NHerrera,
re curious chambers, that is weird (had to Google it). This reminds me of an Islamic burial down south over there that I witnessed sans coffins, in which they dug basically an L shape configuration with men below to situate the deceased inside the niche, then covering with banana leaves to ensure no soil hits the body,
Can that Marcos configuration also be a vault to ensure no theft of body? Very interesting…
For further comments on Marcos burial tomb, see Raissa Robles’ blog:
https://www.raissarobles.com/2016/11/22/marcos-remains-are-buried-in-an-underground-room-that-seems-to-have-a-secret-passageway/
Thanks NH.
This seems relevant. A finely written editorial by Interaksyon, to my mind:
http://interaksyon.com/article/134590/editorial–make-them-regret-it
It relates to my note above on what the likely denouement of the events sparked by Marcos burial may be.
The Marcos burial united a lot of the nation, unfortunately it was left and right, and not the government and her citizens. Glad you appreciate the short blog.
Truth on it’s own is morally nihilistic. Knowledge is Truth really understood as to it’s implications.
Kerwin (not his exact words) : Perter Lim is one of his suppliers. Peter Lim is a drug lord. This is the same Peter Lim that Duterte is acquainted with. This is the Peter Lim that had a nice chat in Davao with Duterte.
Truth is out. Is it Knowledge to everyone?
Good question. Knowledge can also be wrong, for the earth does not seem to be flat. It can be distorted so that people think it is profound, but it is just bullshit. But there are a lot of intelligent people in the Philippines who can sort this out. They have remained quiet in part in respect for the new president, a hope for change, and watching things like the Marcos burial. That would be called an eye-opening event, and so now knowledge becomes actionable, rather than being tucked away out of respect or fear.
Chem, if you can kindly write, if you know — is this Peter Lim now out of the Philippines?
I have no knowledge of that, and that’s the truth
Obliged. Doing the lazy way first. I will try googling and post if I get something.
This link is datelined August 24, 2016. It says “Suspected drug lord Peter Lim & family is now out of the country.”
http://themaharlikan.info/news/drug-lord-peter-lim-family-is-now-out-of-the-country/
Smart move. He took good advice in Davao.
Right. But let us leave it at that (acting on a good advice). Let us not speculate on who gave the advice.
*******
Chemrock,
“Truth on it’s own is morally nihilistic.”
I was struck by this comment. I think this is not necessarily so. Let me present this simplistic taxonomy:
1. The first column shows that broadly there are three types of truths:
1.1. Objective. This is factual truth such as scientific truth.
1.2. Intersubjective. This is truth as consensual belief shared by a group. (Belief may be factual or non-factual; it usually is non-universal.)
1.3. Subjective. This is truth as a personal conviction or opinion.
2. The second column shows the associated type of morality:
2.1. Relative morality (relativism) arises from the recognition that objectively there are many systems of morality. No one system is the Truth.
2.2. Group morality arises from the recognition that the group’s moral beliefs constitute the Truth.
2.3. Personal morality arises from the recognition that no one group morality is True and that personal conviction is the final arbiter of what is right and what is wrong.
3. The third column shows the possible perspectives that may be obtained from the associated morality type. I am not sure this is exhaustive.
3.1. Relative morality can be nihilistic or non-nihilistic. Nihilism means that “nothing is intrinsically moral or immoral” and I give the example of Machiavellinism. For non-nihilistic I give the example of syncretism which is an attempt to find common ground among different moral systems. I would add to this group the other recognized philosophical systems of morality such as consequentialism (utilitarianism), deontology, virtue ethics and others.
3.2. Similarly, personal morality can be nihilistic or non-nihilistic. My personal morality is non-nihilistic, secular and syncretic.
3.3. Group morality can also be nihilistic/non-nihilistic but, to me, a better perspective is to categorize it as sectarian or secular. The sectarian path is by far the most dominant paradigm composed as it is of the world’s various organized religions. There are group nihilistic movements but most are political in nature rather than strictly moral.
4. I find that the categories sometimes overlap and pigeonholing one system can prove to be difficult.
*****
Cool.
Can one be Machiavellian, Humanist/Greenie and Spinoza/Einstein Situationist?
(edgar, are you making these graphs yourself, if so are you using some sort of software like some graphic Excel… very interesting.)
*******
LCpl_X,
1. We humans have an amazing ability to compartmentalize so, yes, it is possible to be all these. As an example, the person that springs to mind is our own Senator Loren Legarda.
o Machiavellian is a political philosophy and Loren is a politician.
o Humanist/Greenie. Her main platform is environmentalism and she heads the Senate committee on climate change.
o Religion. To my knowledge, she is not a Spinozoan but I gather she converted to Islam when she married and returned to Catholicism after separation. (Wikipedia lists Roman Catholicism as her religion.)
o Situationist. It’s funny. She supported Duterte when he rebuffed the Paris Treaty, and then turned around when he said he would sign it after all. (This volte-face was also exhibited by Tony La Vina who was the spokesperson for the delegation to Paris.)
2. I use Powerpoint. As a graphics user yourself, you know the persuasive power of visuals. For me, charting brings clarity of thought.
*****
In short, Edgar, Loren is the actual personification of a bat, neither bird or mammal, a bird when the birds were winning the battle, a mammal when the mammals were winning, finally shredded to pieces by both sides at the end of the story.
*******
Bert, Ahaha!
I did not know bats were that unique, the only mammals that can sustain long flight. Their wings are not forelimbs but actually digits that are covered and conjoined by a thin membrane. In my part of Queensland, there are numerous flying foxes, which are large bats. Megabats. They come out on early evenings and I love to sit on the verandah in the cooling breeze and watch them swoop by.
*****
edgar, I’m definitely appreciating both you and NH’s graphs and graphics of late. Keep ’em coming, and I’ll stick with pictures and videos—- Powerpoint’s too much work for me. But I am a big fan of graph, from pies to pyramids to trees.
As for bats, they are the 2nd most numerous mammals on earth (that’s them in red), and their sole purpose (or something of benefit for us) is to keep insect populations in check,
*******
Just thinking out loud here. Don’t mind me, just want to record my thoughts.
Another way to look at the Truth Table is to see the first column vertically: each of us holds on to objective, intersubjective and subjective truths.
1. Objective. We agree the world is round.
2. Intersubjective. We all generally adhere to the laws of our country and follow the precepts of our religion.
3. Subjective. We all harbor personal convictions that are unique to us in the sense that these are not necessarily shared by the groups (country, religion, political orientation, The Society) to which we belong.
At the same time, we may reject some objective and intersubjective truths… and even some truths about ourselves.
1. Objective. Many do not believe global warming is real.
2. Intersubjective. In countries where capital punishment is legal, many do not believe in the death penalty. Many Catholics do not believe in the Church teachings on artificial contraception and divorce.
3. Subjective. Some hot girls believe they’re not, and some boys believe they’re (hot) when they’re not.
Belief seems to be the fulcrum of realization, action, and materialization.
Accordingly, here are four laws of personal truths:
1. To a person, all truths (the objective, the intersubjective, and, paradoxically, the subjective) are true relative to his beliefs.
2. His (internalized) truths, factual or nonfactual, are real to him and form the basis of his worldview.
3. His worldview will coincide with external reality according to the clarity of his perception of the world. (But note the paradox: belief forms perception… and vice-versa.)
4. His beliefs have the potential to shape external reality closer to his worldview.
In my experience, it is harder to materialize true beliefs than untrue beliefs. Imagine Sisyphus: the rock (the obstacles) is too heavy and the incline too steep. For all his strength, it just takes one finger (say, of a Supreme Court justice) pressed against the rock to hold him back.
*****
“Imagine Sisyphus: the rock (the obstacles) is too heavy and the incline too steep. For all his strength, it just takes one finger (say, of a Supreme Court justice) pressed against the rock to hold him back.”
edgar,
But why is he happy—- harkening back to Joe’s “O’ Rise Ye Land of Happy Fools!”
Are Filipinos simply Lotus Eaters oblivious to the weight and incline? Thus open to any and all suggestions?
Or is there purpose to this subservience, surrender, defeat? To be content in their place, rolling the rock uphill forever— this contentment is another Christian ideal, mostly from Paul, IMHO… since Jesus suggested the Truth is best found in the suffering (through Austerity).
Camus though, suggested that this happy state is in and of itself a form of dissent, happiness in Austerity.
That’s all up in the clouds though, interesting to ponder, but to jibe it on the ground…
When you apply all this thinking to what’s happening on the streets there, as here (ie. anti-Trump, #Black Lives Matter, Sovereign Citizen movement, etc.) where protestors (ie. rebellion) take on a not so happy tone , I submit that it increases the happiness of those who perceive themselves the winners in all this.
Which surely adds to the unhappiness of the rock rollers.
For example, the Marcos burial is done, and from what I gather it’s a secret lot (I’ve been to a lot of cemeteries there, and I know many resemble a maze). Much like the Wahhabi/Arabian desert custom of burying their dead without markers as to force forgetting (outside Arabia, other Muslims ensure to mark their graves, to remember and visit, which is Sharia compliant).
So if Marcos’ burial site is secret. Why all the fuss? If the minimum for burial was simply that he was a soldier, no specific medals/status as criteria… Case closed (literally), move on. To use the rolling rock analogy, the huge rock has rolled downhill once again, and time for Sisyphus to make his way down to roll it upwards once more.
Happiness IMHO for Sisyphus is giving the Libingan burial a pass and focus on other pressing issues. You can live in history and be angered about history and base your actions on the injustices of the pass, or move on to more pressing issues.
It’s another cycle, the rock has fallen downhill.
Same as, ‘No man ever steps in the same river twice, for it’s not the same river and he’s not the same man.’ — Heraclitus ,
You can’t push the same rock again, move on. IMHO, Sisyphus is happy not just in his dissent but because he’s imagining every single rock rolling as new. Forward thinking is crucial here.
*******
LCpl_X,
I would not say that happiness for Sisyphus is moving on. If there is any lesson to be learned from the legend, it is that happiness lies in the struggle.
Admittedly, to “move on” — that is, acceptance — is wisdom in certain situations. In others, it is akin to embracing the “eternal sunshine of the spotless mind.” (Refer to Niebuhr’s Serenity Prayer).
The best minds believe in values such as goodness and justice, and comprehend that forgetfulness perpetuates impunity.
Marie’s posts here — in particular her November 26, 2016, at 7:10 pm post — give a good view of this values mindset.
Repeat: Belief is the fulcrum of realization, action, and materialization.
*****
Sorry, I need to clarify that my Salafi/Wahhabi ‘forgetting’ was specific to the burial only, ie. you bury someone and forget.
I’m not espousing ‘forgetting’ here in general as the wisest move in life, and when it pertains to goodness and justice specifically, yes, I agree. So of course learn from the past, rectify injustices and ensure you stop this trajectory (ie. “Those who do not learn history are doomed to repeat it.” ).
In a way, I’m calling for simply picking one’s battles, for example, Marcos is already buried (move on), what’s the end game here, to exhume? Or simply to remind people of history and what happened?
If it’s the latter then that’s better taught at home and in schools, hell even in movies and plays (as Camus did) though protests have a way of enlivening spirits (I totally approve the symbolic aspect)… BUT to interpret these protests as something more, I think is a stretch.
The repetition of these protests have been covered here, ie. EDSA I, II, III, IV, etc. etc. with no real repercussions. So the Philippines has this love affair with protests and marching and holding up signs, etc. without follow through. We here have talked about this before, so why now the sudden jubilation for yet again another set of protests?
Like I said protests for protest sake is great for symbolic rendering of issues (it’s done over here all the time), but without anything else it’s just that.
The name of the game is priority —- so the the main question here in these Burial protests is what’s the end game? here’s a good article on how best to prioritize: https://loadoutroom.com/13821/green-berets-and-the-carver-matrix/
“Belief is the fulcrum of realization, action, and materialization” (Exactly, man, I’m focusing on action and materialization 😉 ).
Lance
This burial thing has implications that does not seem apparent to many. It has moral, legal and generational amplifications.
On the issue of morality, Ferdie’s sins of human rights violations and plunder would have been seen as forgiven. Generations to come would have learnt no lessons. Meaning of justice would have been lost to the nation. Why we must not move on — because there is no accountability, admission, reparation and restitution.
Legality — there are 282 still outstanding cases against the Marcos family. The complainants are govt, human rights victims/families, corporations. There are various reasons for these cases pending for so long, not least of which being legal basis are complicated. The burial will be used to advantage by Marcoses lawyers for sure as somewhat nullifying any attempt to influence the court to go beyond the words in the Acts. The burial gives weight to the argument that the country has moved on.
Generational issue — You asked what is the end game of the protest. I ask what is the end game of the Marcoses. They have patiently waited for 30 years to bury Ferdie in the LNMB against the dictator’s dying wish to be buried near his mother in Illocos Norte. They made their move in GMA time, but their political position was not strong yet. Now in Duterte’s time, their reading on the ground is that the people are ready for their political come back. Bongbong’s strong showing in the VP race is an important indication to them. 2022 is their time. Filipino politics is different from most other countries. The politico families are franchises. Once they build one, they believe they are entitled, that their people want them to stay. The Marcoses are here to stay. But Ferdie gave them a stigma, a history they have been trying for 30 years to rewrite. This burial is a very very powerful message to the masses. WE ARE BACK! Ferdie was a hero after all. The Marcos clan will remain powerful next 100 years. Imee’s secret trust funds will ensure that. The Marcos have been feeding the massa with tons of lies about the martial law years. Imagine how the new young generation of Marcoses in the wings have been brought up to believe in their grandad’s glorious years. Ferdie was ruthless, Bongbong in army fatigues, together with General Ver, had pushed Ferdie to give the order to bomb Camp Craeme, with no regard to collateral civilian casualties. Rotten apples do not fall far from the tree. The possibility of future Marcoses in Malacanang is frightening.
“They have patiently waited for 30 years to bury Ferdie in the LNMB against the dictator’s dying wish to be buried near his mother in Illocos Norte. “
Chemp, now this above is very interesting,
is there a holographic will or some recorded directive of this? But then again probate administration qualifies wife and children to make estate decisions. Though from a propaganda angle, pitting pro-Marcos vs. pro-Marcos, the fact that Apo’s wishes was to be buried with his Mom would carry some weight—– I wonder why this wasn’t expressed greater.
But the point I’m making, Chemp, is that they’ve essentially already made a touch down. This whole anti-Libingan (bury him next to his Mom instead) should ‘ve been louder at the 5th yard line, 95 yards away from the End Zone. The efforts to stop it should’ve been farther away, this whole thing is being done ass backwards…
If Marcos body is the football, well they were able to take it into the End Zone un-opposed. Where was the defense this whole time?
Hence, my question, is the end game of these protests to exhume Marcos’ body? And take it and bury it next to his Mom? You’ll just create much needed drama & publicity for them.
Because if the end game for the Marcoses is to return to power, then these protests seem to me unpaid promotion of their name. And as Trump has proven all publicity is good publicity, hence IMHO, the better move here is to move on… keep the threat of vandalism maybe to ensure the lot stays secret, but otherwise Silence.
The loudest possible protestation in this case , IMHO, is Silence. I’d probably pay a group of street kids, the ones who live in cemeteries there, and instruct them to piss and shit on the site just for laughs. But otherwise in this Libingan issue, Silence would be the biggest type of insult.
NYC Mayor de Blasio, apparently he’s some anti-police guy, when he talks to NYPD they turn their backs on him. For a town that’s more known for heckling, there’s just times when Silence is just louder.
“WE ARE BACK! Ferdie was a hero after all. The Marcos clan will remain powerful next 100 years.”
Chemp, if I’m not mistaken they were back like 5 years right after they left, then Mrs. Marcos ran for office. Maybe the original sin here is that they were granted return—- most dictators when ousted get killed or never return, or a Manuel Noriega-type return.
“Filipino politics is different from most other countries. The politico families are franchises.”
EXACTLY. Business in every sense of the word. Support meant either a diplomatic post (if you are a loud academic or journalistic supporter) a cabinet post (if you are also a politician) favors of the business/legal type (if you are a business supporter). It is like a salesman’s bonus. This was the name of the game especially in the provinces for very long, but the urbanization of Manila and other cities changed the game, 1986 was a symptom of it, among many others.
NOW it becomes more like a question of what system will prevail – and what major groups hope to benefit from it. The typical “yellow” supporter might usually have a good economic situation and social standing in the present set-up. The typical Duterte supporter could be an upstart – either with money but not enough “respect in society” yet, or some money (OFW, migrant, BPO) but not really that much yet. Marcos supporters might be the ones still thinking the old way, possibly in terms of benefits coming from a possible patron, probably least competent?
Lance
Re Ferdie’s wish to be buried near his mom — its info from those who were near them in those final moments. I have read from many sources. You can google it.
Re they were already bsck. Yes Ramos allowed them back 1992 or 93. They tip- toed back. Can’t recall who described it this way, but it was super appropriate description for a family given to pomposity and fanfare in everything they do. They were back, but kept low profile for obvious reasons. Soon they tested waters. Congress, governorship, senate. As they get re- entrenched, the cockiness returned. The VO run was testing the waters for full fledged presidential run. Imee’s money has been put to good us, buying favours and building up the old gang.
Re why allow them the final run — but oh you are wrong in this. Pnoy was adamant no burial under his watch. There were lots of complaints filed all the way to Supreme court. Imee bought out the presidency. She has her hand up so deep in the pres’ ass that he will do her bidding. He was the one that fave the green light and un-amazingly the Supreme Court complied, 9 justices appointed by Gloria Arroyo who is aligned to Marcoses ensures Imee’s money can buy the whole Philippines.
Re publicity for Marcoses from anti-burial demo — I disagree with you. Its very easy for Marcoses to get publicity. Their army of trolls can see to that. And all it takes is for Imee to appear in another Tatler front page and Marcos supporters go crazy. Perhaps you too hahaha. On the contrary, the anti-burial is great publicity for anti-marcos groups. Many who were silent before have been encouraged by the groundswell support. Duterte’s and Marcoses may have miscalculated this time. I saw recently a somewhat anti- Marcos comment by Duterte’s. Is this a flip flop again because he understands the ground, or he was just joking.
Not all Duterte supporters are pro-Marcos – in fact the more socially concerned among Duterte’s supporters voted for Duterte/Robredo and many were against the Marcos LNMB burial. The strangest Duterte supporter is former Marcos era exile Carmen Navarro-Pedrosa…
http://www.philstar.com/opinion/2016/11/27/1647883/most-significant-achievement-duterte – “Duterte needs the support of the people especially thinking Filipinos. They are against both Marcos and Aquino because they represent the culture of impunity that has taken hold of the country since. They are grateful that we now have a leader who has the courage to crush it.” – now if that is NOT delusional, what is it… she even writes that the crowds on Luneta were PAID (hakot) in the same article, and that Aquino was WORSE than Marcos – how can that be???
Probably CNP is an example of a kind of Stockholm syndrome – fled from dictatorship and now is espousing a new kind of dictatorship fervently, just like many who grew up under Martial Law.
*******
She’s bonkers.
*****
Chemp, the Marcoses played a great long game. it remains to be seen if those who oppose them can too… but from my advantage, most likely not.
Maybe Ireneo’s correct, that if they miscalculate and insist on taking the office of the VP, they’ll have hell to pay… we’ll see.
Evil or not, I tend to give credit where credit is due, and that Libingan Burial, is a touch down and more importantly suggests to their talent in the long game… any family or clan who can think in terms of decades and not years, tend to do well.
👍. 1.
*******
Again, don’t mind me. Just ruminating.
If:
a. Belief is the fulcrum of realization, action, and materialization.
b. Belief shapes perception.
c. Belief is more the cause of delusion than awakening.
Then:
d. Is it possible to live without belief?
e. Would we not perceive with absolute clarity?
f. If so, what would we see?
***
We would see with the eyes of innocence, would we not?
Which is to say: with wonder. (Reference: Auguries of Innocence)
But it would not be eternal sunshine, no.
In childhood, we experience pure joy… without knowing it. There is no consciousness of it. We are not experiencing joy, we are the joy.
At the same time, we can experience pure devastation. An unkind word, a broken toy, an unfulfilled wish, and we are sorrow. As if the world ended.
But with the detachment that adulthood brings, what would true wonder be like? (Reference: Zorba the Greek.)
Our experiences might be reversed: cry at blessings and laugh at disasters.
And a tree, unnamed, would not be a tree, a rock not a rock, both something infinitely wondrous.
*****
1. My wife tends to laugh if I stub my toe on the furniture and hop about the room howling in great pain. Oddly enough, it helps.
*******
Ahaha! Your wife is wise.
*****
EL. Informing and wisdom-building.
This is why that non-journalist blogger loves to feature posts that starts with “Kahit hindi nakapag-aral”
Education is their greatest fear.
They fear educating the people, because an educated citizenry cannot be fooled. Poverty in this country is a conspiracy, so that the crooked politicians can continue to use them for their own greedy ends.
Salute to Joeam. Once again, you have sounded the bells. The pendulum is closing in.
It’s once more “The Awakening.” However, I fear this is a strategy of the administration to create what they call “lawlessness” so he can declare what he’s been itching to declare. Martial Law. So that he can control everything. And then hand the presidency to BBM in a silver platter. How evil.
To hand the presidency to BBM is a foolish move even in the point of view of PDuterte. BBM has no charisma of his own. There is no point of wanting to declare martial law as of the moment because PDuterte enjoys majority of public support.
Well, it is a catch 22. Don’t protest and become an enabler of the abuses now being done. Protest and get martial law. That, in turn, is likely to intensify the protests. It is indeed a hell of a way to run a nation.
Amplifying that thought, ASSUME there occur CONTINUING rallies against Marcos burial characterized as aggressive but non-violent, that is, assertive but orderly.
The primary concern would then not be the handing over the Presidency to BBM — the latter “handing over” mechanism or act I cannot quite get in accordance with the Constitution — but the matter of declaring a Martial Law because of PESTERING aggressive but non-violent rallies if, in fact, such rallies continues.
This ACTION and REACTION cycle and its not unlikely intensification is a concern especially because of the many players in the boiling pot — not limited to local players — and to make it sound even like a thriller novel, add in cyber technology.
NHerrera ,
“because of PESTERING aggressive but non-violent rallies if, in fact, such rallies continues.”
I’m seeing something similar in the anti-TRUMP, not my President, protests here, basically it boils down to commitment, and already there’re less and less of these protest, mainly because of weather… it’s getting cold now.
If this is a one-time issue protest, then what usually happens is that people lose interest. If it was something akin to Black Lives Matter, in which the media fans the flames every week, then you’ll have continuous protests… but even then, especially now that the media seems to be catching on that they are essentially fanning this “movement” (hence they’ve cut down coverage and/or more discerning of who they cover)
they’ve realized in an attempt to gain ratings, they’ve weakened another institution, the police, and IMHO it took the Trump rallies yelling at the media to be fair and balanced, to affect some sort of media industry soul searching, basically the media finally felt what the cops were feeling… that’s just my theory.
So it all boils down to commitment, NH. I know you guys start Christmas season extra early in the Philippines, will this put a damper on anger over there?
“its not unlikely intensification is a concern especially because of the many players in the boiling pot”
In my experience boiling pot type incidents usually happen along side actual violence, coupled with injustice—- this burial has injustice for sure, but lacking the needed violence with that injustice (directly, not indirect martial law stuff, people tend to forget).
So not a boiling pot situation IMHO, but more a Chinese spouting bowl, in which there has to be some constant rubbing/friction involved:
The point of that analogy is that in the Chinese bowl, although the water seems violent (or even fun to watch, even inspiring) after it’s rubbed , it’s just plain water.
Boiling pot, the water now hot can hurt you, even kill. If indeed there is some palpable anger in the streets then I’ll defer to you guys over there. But honestly, if there was no reaction when that PNP cop ran over US Embassy protestors (violence + injustice),
this funeral/burial affair IMHO will be a big nothing.
The Embassy protest was by Lumads close to the Left. The Left got mad but some indeed said that is what you guys get for supporting Duterte.
I don’t think it the burial alone will cause a major upheaval – except in making some people who knew little about the Marcos era until now more curious about it and more knowledgeable.
What could spark anger is if the Supreme Court actually declares Bong-Bong Marcos as VP – there are rumors of payola going around now, and Leni has a big support base of her own.
Who knows though – Duterte might suspend habeas corpus before that and arrest some of those who picture in the present demonstrations, could be the reason for the “tolerance”..
By the martial law standards which I know, most people are very bold, even careless nowadays.
If it’s any consolation (mostly for myself), I’m reading Eric Gamalinda’s Empire of Memory. Memory being knowledge’s sister.
DUTERTE IS NOW CONSIDERED IN THE SAME LEAGUE AS NORTH KOREA, SYRIA, SUDAN AND ISIS BY THE UN
This got lost in the shuffle. UN rep to Khmer Rouge trial warns Duterte among others (North Korea, Syria, Sudan, ISIS) that the “long arm of international justice can prevail.”
I wonder what epithet he will use this time.
http://www.straitstimes.com/asia/se-asia/cambodia-verdict-against-khmer-rouge-leaders-a-warning-for-north-korea-philippines-and
Highlights:
“The long arm of international justice ultimately can prevail,” Mr David Scheffer, the UN Secretary-General’s envoy to the tribunal, told reporters after the verdict.
“Holding senior leaders accountable for the perpetration of atrocity crimes under their leadership, does happen, it does ultimately occur,” he added.
He then mentioned a number of specific countries where leaders should “take note (of) what happened today”.
They were the Philippines, South Sudan, Sudan, the Central African Republic, Syria and North Korea. He also named the ISIS group, which has committed widespread atrocities across swathes of Iraq and Syria.
“What happened today in this courtroom ultimately can reach their domain because international justice is not backing down,” he added.
So Duterte is considered in the same league as Sudan, Syria, North Korea and ISIS.
One thing that sets Duterte apart from those other despots is that he appears right not wanting to stay in power beyond the presidential term given him by his election. Most of those other leaders cling to power by virtue of military force. Duterte perhaps is still not sure whether this job with all its headaches is more desireable than the simpler life he left in Davao. And even if succumbs and is transformed by the power, wealth, and glory of his current experience, it is still fifty fifty that the armed forces will be completely obedient to another Marcos-type tyrant, nevermind the likes of a Kim, Pol Pot, and other evil incarnate dictators. It will probably take a purge of military leaders who have risen the ranks under prior administrations and martial law for him to grab and hold on to this type of absolute power. Hopefully the knowledge which Joe writes about continues to be vivid among these officers as they stand in the way another hisyorical debacle for the country.The Philippines is not there yet, inspite of the bad image its political leadership gas acquired internationally.
I have an idea,
right now, as right after the Philippine election, we’re simply talking about principles and theories—- abstract stuff.
Let’s do this.
Remember when we tested internet speed in the Philippines (by following Ireneo’s instructions) and figured out where gridlock took place and what the issues associated were, etc.
Why don’t we put DU30’s regime to the test, instead of haphazardly comparing him to pure Evil? For comparisons sake.
It’s similar over here with Trump, too many ‘the sky is falling’ reportage ( when in fact the folks he’s reached out to and now posted in offices thus far, are heavy weights in their own right, not sycophants )
One of the best test is gov’t responsiveness. And it’s something we can do right now.
Let’s write, or call or email the Malacanang house (like we ‘re able to do to the WH here) , pick a national or int’l level issue you want to voice your concerns over or give advise to, or demand a solution for,
and let’s rate their level of response. Usually what they’ll do is , say your letter has to do with Foreign Affairs, they’ll give you a contact number, or if it’s the environment , then they’ll hook you up with a contact at DENR.
Remember the test here is for responsiveness, so don’t make your letter about principles, abstract stuff, make them about results, get them to act on something.
For example, my biggest issue while there was trash simply being piled on some corner (no biggie, NYC has the same problem). That’s a good issue in which something can be done right away, without getting into the Filipinos’ propensity to liter argument, just have the gov’t pick up the trash.
Test responsiveness on the ground.
“to another Marcos-type tyrant, nevermind the likes of a Kim, Pol Pot, and other evil incarnate dictators.”
caliphman,
Marcos was a humanitarian compared to other dictators.
At the height of his power, people still defied him (unheard of in dictatorships)… the comparative game must also be an honest one—- for example, Obama’s presidency is now being hailed as AWESOME , when in fact the world (especially the Muslim world) crumbled under his watch, where his and her’s neo-Lib approach was disastrous. Balance. There must be balance, that one man’s freedom fighter is another man’s terrorist; also can be applied here, one man’s evil dictator is another man’s saviour extraordinaire… which means chemp‘s Truth and Knowledge is somewhere in between.
Filipinos tend to be personalistic and focused on their respective own social circles.
Therefore the memory of Martial Law IS strong in academic circles that suffered a lot from it – while the groups that suspected most academics of being commies didn’t care that much..
The common Filipino cares most for those who immediately do good for his family – be it by giving him some money for his vote if he is dirt-poor, giving him a job if he is a common man, giving him opportunities to move up if he is middle class. Not much of a long-term or big picture perspective there I think, even if the urbanization and modernization of recent years may have changed some outlooks. Some who hated Marcos think the Aquinos failed them even more…
“The Embassy protest was by Lumads close to the Left. The Left got mad but some indeed said that is what you guys get for supporting Duterte.”
Agreed, man. The hypocrisy of it all is astounding, I thought the subcontinent Indians were bad with their caste system. But this whole social compartmentalizing re issues and prioritizing what’s dire and not, is interesting. Thanks.
So basically the Dalits getting run over by a police van, doesn’t phase the Brahmins above, because they’re more hurt about the Martial Law of 30-40 years ago?
“What could spark anger is if the Supreme Court actually declares Bong-Bong Marcos as VP – there are rumors of payola going around now, and Leni has a big support base of her own.”
Is it possible or probable at this point? Possible is simply 50/50, anything’s possible, like wishful thinking; probable, ie. 80% likely, we’re talking reality now and not wishful thinking. How likely?
If this is the much needed galvanizing effect ala Gandhi with the Brahmins to Dalits in India (arguably the outside enemy was also a big factor in the Gandhi narrative), or do Filipinos prefer a personality instead, and not just an event, which means is Ms. Leni the Filipino Gandhi of her time?
http://filipinogerman.blogsport.eu/who-are-you/ is ALSO about how extreme the caste/class system was in old Bikol… much of the humanity coming from our area stems from those who saw and felt how terribly some people were treated in the old order…
you had a hierarchy from the Spanish mestizos (whose plantations were small though, just look and Bikol’s topography and you know why) like Moll (Annie Moll is an author, our folks had some land dealings with an Ana Moll back in the old days but we were the small fry they the bigshots) down to Negritos (used to be nobody ate food prepared by Agtas, and many were rumored to be aswang, meaning vampires or cannibals) – of course Leni is partly mestiza, but not TOO much…
Back to Dalits… come to think of it – the whole of martial law had around 3000 dead, there are more dead now than in those years, but like the Lumads who were run over by the police van, the ones killed in the streets now are also “Dalits”… dalita in Tagalog means suffering BTW.
“also “Dalits”… dalita in Tagalog means suffering BTW.”
Thanks for this connection, I know they also say karma there, with the same Indian connotation. The Hindu connection, via the Sri Vishayan strain, has always intrigued me… I know the Hindus didn’t make stone structures as they did in Indonesia, but the words and customs, pre-Islamic and pre-Christian, there’s hints of it throughout coastal Philippines.
The class or caste system is indeed strong in the Philippines – it is something few really talk about though, even if it permeates social interactions and even the language usage and mannerisms betray where people really come from those who analyse it are rare…
For more KNOWLEDGE, I recommend my blog article “Who are You”, or even better this Manolo Quezon article I shared just this morning, about the role of the postwar middle class – Vaishyas to use your caste model, while UP etc. are Brahmins, military are Kshatriya..
Finally! And it’s beyond Marcos. There are so many shady things happening in this administration. I hope everyone wakes up in time to smell the shit and clean up shop before the real disaster happens.
Knowledge is fact. is truth. But why is it fleeting?
The same ppl, baby boomers who were chanting in 1986, which side are they on today?
Has the knowledge been trumped by overzealous support for Duterte?
Who are the supporters of Duterte today who would die for him no matter what? Who listens to Mocha? Are they without knowledge? What knowledge have they sought for and how have they sought it. Because to them, the rallyists, yellows, blacks are without knowledge.
How is it possible that there can be many versions of knowledge? Or I am interchanging it with truth?
Some from the “Marcos babies” generation – the one that grew up during Martial Law – marched in 1986 but feel “betrayed” by what came after. They were the same age as today’s millenials in 1986 and are now around their 50s. Their view of the country is different from the generation of Will Villanueva that still experienced the Old Republic before Marcos and its end, and even more different from the generation of NHerrera and Manong Sonny that grew up in the Old Republic – so some among the Marcos babies generation feel a lifetime of betrayal in the past 30 years…
The facts are the same, but what one emphasizes among the facts and how one interprets the facts to form a point of view is different based on one’s personal and family perspective.
Real knowledge would be if there were more discourse, more seeing the other’s perspectives.
Knowledge is great.
It knows wrong.
It knows right.
Ask the three blind men with the elephant…
Ask the frog inside the well….
I joined in the protest movement against Marcos but did not expect any reward from doing so. Restoration of freedom and democracy was enough for me, with the hope of giving every citizen a level playing field to succeed reserved before only to cronies and their families and supporters.
The knowledge that the ravages which resulted from decades of dictatorial regime and plunder will take more decades to recover from prevented me from concluding that I was betrayed by what came after. Take note also that after Cory and Ramos, Marcos allies (Estrada, GMA and now Duterte) took over the helms in governance made it more difficult to continue the the much needed recovery.
This is another instance of thinking “what you can do for your country instead of what the country can do for you” principle.
Those who felt “betrayed” mostly are those belonging to the left leaning groups who expected Cory to declare her government as a revolutionary one and felt disappointed when she opted for a more democratic one. Add to those who feel entitled to be assisted without doing anything to help themselves be free from being dirt poor from generation to generation – those who spend their hard earned money or monetary gifts from politicians for drinks and vices and so uninterested in sending their kids to school and guiding them while they are still in their formative years, and believe me, there are so many of them, they are now the gullible ones, the easily manipulated ones who readily believe the current propaganda being spread by Mocha and her groups of trolls.
Determination and focus to help yourself is still the best way…”pag gusto may paraan, pag ayaw may dahilan”…If you really want something, there is always a way, if you don’t really want it, there are always excuses and someone, something to pass the blame to, and the government even the likes of Cory and PNOY are the easiest targets.
Some of the Duterte supporters in my generation are solidly middle class – some left the country, some started businesses, all feel betrayed somehow. Manolo Quezon wrote about Marcos babies in one article, mentioning that they could not become oligarchs anymore as the way up was closed. Wonder how true that interpretation is, but I know very well that the Marcos era brought many of us up in a materialistic, consumeristic way – get ahead and don’t care about others, so I wonder how much of today’s callousness towards EJKs combined with crass SUV materialism comes from that era and developed into an even worse variation over the years – this is something sociologists or Manolo Quezon should have a look at I think, if they haven’t.
Happy days are here again for them, now they have succeeded in making Duterte President by funding his election campaign.
This illustrates my point. I hope i get this right:
Arrggh!
Anyways, this FB post by cha (I think) in #SilentNoMorePH is summarized by the following timeline:
August 3, 2016 – Duterte threatens to imprison PhilWebs Corp. owner Bobby Ongpin. As a result, stocks of Philwebs crashed at Php2 per share.
August 17, 2016 – Ongpin offered to donate his 49% stake in PhilWeb Corp worth P20-billion to regulators to save close to 6,000 people from losing their jobs. (ows?)
October 5, 2016 – Greggy Araneta, husband of Irene Marcos bought the shares of PhilWeb Corp at a very cheap price.
NOW – At Php14 per share, Greggy Araneta and Irene Marcos couple is now richer by 8 Billlion Pesos in just a few weeks.
NOW – Duterte is now silent about Ongpin.
Note from MG:
How about donating billions back to the Boy Scout of the Philippines, the billions you earned through the help of Binay and the Makati government by frying BSP in its own fat (iginisa sa sariling mantika, as explained by former Makati VM Mercado)…eh, Ongpin?
Erratum…It was Tina who posted in #SilentNOMorePH
Comment of one Duterte supporter on my Learning Center FB wall: Araneta is Roxas’ cousin.
My response was OK, it is the same thing, the rich among themselves while wide masses are forced to work or migrate abroad, or move internally into already bloated megacities like Manila.
Look how they are all some how related.
https://ryanericsongcanlas.wordpress.com/2009/08/09/philippine-politics-and-its-geneology/
Interesting link. Thanks KG.
👍🏻
@ Irineo
“the rich among themselves while wide masses are forced to work…”
There are branches of rich families who became estranged for political and other personal reasons as in quarrel over inheritance, etc. (like ours where we ended up as the poor relations, dirt poor even from an alleged deed of sale signed while my ancestors were drunk.) In fairness, Doy Laurel gave way to Cory to field a common candidate against Marcos, unlike Grace Poe. For all his alleged faults, Doy’s sacrifice, (like Mar’s) had result in Cory (and Pnoy’s) victory and a chance for the restoration of democracy (and economic recovery).
More famous example is the case between the Cory and Danding Cojuangco groups, I dimly heard the same split between the Aranetas.
Mary
Still on the subject of truth.
We will never how the deal for the transfer of ownership of Philwebs was actually consumed. One way or another, taxpayers get screwed. It is normal in this sort of private deals to publicise a low price to minimise stamp duties. The seller also avoids capital tax. If Ongpin’s shareholdings in Philwebs are held by an investment vehicle, which is normally the case with the big guys, then they may have ‘priced’ it low and make losses, thus gaining substantial tax covers.
Declare a low price, difference settle offshore, etc.
I’m no fan of Ongpin, and I’m sure he knows how to play his cards. But the President’s approach is brutish and touched a lot of raw nerves in the business community.
For additional knowledge:
Leland Dela Cruz posted this on FB:
26 November at 12:57 ·
I was alerted to an SEC ruling on Ongpin. Like I write below, if there are parts of the narrative I should include, just let me know.
I first became curious about Phil web when I learned that Greggy Araneta, husband of Irene Marcos, acquired majority ownership of the company from Roberto Ongpin.
Then a batch mate of mine pointed out to me that Araneta made billions from the transaction. That led me to back read stories about what has happened to Phil web since Duterte became President.
Here’s what I came up with. I have the links to the media articles if you want them. (Stock prices based on Bloomberg.com) If I missed out important parts of the narrative, There’s probably a whole backstory on Ongpin that I don’t know about (Same Ongpin that was embroiled in the DBP mess), for example, and PAGCOR might have their reasons for not renewing Philweb’s license.
1. Philweb stocks priced at P24.40 per share on June 30, 2016.
2. Duterte seeks halt to online gambling. Philweb license expires July 11. Big question is if PAGCOR will renew the license.
(ADDED 11/28) 2.1 Philweb stocks drop to P19 on July 1, 2016 but stays at the level until July 7.
(ADDED 11/28) 2.2 Ongpin is found guilty by SEC on July 8, 2016 of insider trading of Philex mining shares. SEC fines him P174 million pesos and suspends him from holding directorships in companies. But business pages only cover this on July 22/23 (A TRO was subsequently issued by an RTC on August 1)
3. Philweb stocks slide for successive days until July 12, 2016 to P14.98 before stabilizing. PAGCOR gives PhilWeb one month renewal.
4. Duterte blasts Philweb Chairman Ongpin on August 2. Philweb shares were at P14.32. Philweb shares drop to P8.95 by August 4.
5. Ongpin resigns as Philweb chairman August 4
6. Philweb shares drop to P4.25 by August 9. Philweb license not renewed prior to deadline. Philweb shuts down operations August 10.
7. Stock exchange suspends Philweb trading for one day. After trading resumes, Philweb shares hover around P6 per share for about 2 months.
8. Duterte says on August 24 that he will allow online gambling but with stricter conditions.
9. Greg Araneta, husband of Irene Marcos, and minority shareholder of Philweb, acquires majority control of Philweb with a purchase of 771.65 million shares from Ongpin on October 5 at P2.60 per share even if the price per share on that day is P6.22. Just on that transaction alone, he made P2,793,373,000 (P2.7 billion). (Of course his own shares, I don’t know how many, lost value when Philweb prices dropped from P24.40 to P6.22)
10. Philweb is now trading at around P14.70 per share. Araneta has made P9,336,965,000 (P9.3 billion).
11. Articles are coming out saying that Philweb is expected to have its license restored soon.
Tina Cuyugan shared Leland Dela Cruz’s post.
11 hrs ·
Remember all those pre-election trolls promising that Duterte would rid the country of its oligarchs? And so Duterte got rid of one Marcos-era oligarch, Bobby Ongpin, and got his holdings turned over to… a Marcos.
GAMING technology service provider Philweb Corp. has named Gregorio “Greggy” Ma. Araneta III, son-in-law of the late strongman Ferdinand Marcos and a board member in the last two years, as its new chair.
Araneta was elected to take the place of businessman Roberto Ongpin who had resigned as chair last month after finding himself “struck by lightning,” having been named by Pres. Rodrigo Duterte as an “oligarch” whom he would bring down.
http://business.inquirer.net/215124/greggy-araneta-new-philweb-chair
To the elites as the Fdutertards call you, we can start reporting these rimor mongerers to FB, the lies they spread need to stop, they are like magots feeding on cadavers. If the people unite, we will overcome, we know, it happened in 1986. Do it once more!
Knowledga is power. As the late Ernie Baron program Knowledge power
Maybe the knowledge has been sitting there for some time now but the outrageousness and vileness of the attempts to challenge what they do know has spurred these young people to give voice to that knowledge. Or more specifically to the growing realisation that they need to be heard for what they know.
And as more are coming out to be heard, more are also listening and now also knowing.
So yay for knowledge rising. And bravo for the rising crescendo of voices now playing what feels like an overture, a prelude to something even more important.
Shut the fuck up.
I deleted this comment and then put it back so readers can know the character of advocacy pursued by many.
👍.
Connor, looks like you can’t handle the truth. Just unfollow.
We can’t shut up anymore.
Duterte was pandering to Putin that the USA invaded Afghanistan and they found ni WMD, then Putin whispered, we invaded them first,but we lost, and if not for us, there would be no Al Qaeda.So (insert quote if connor mcgregor)! Come and visit Russia.
Karl, you jolted his memory.
Connor McGregor now remembers Russia was beaten in Afghan all because because of Rambo.
the above was for Connor McGregor.
Drop the featherweight belt it you wont fight Holloway and if you are not going to fight Nurmy or Ferguson, drop the light weight belt.
The beginning of the end?
Why do you think KNOWLEDGE is always partnered with UNDERSTANDING?
knowledge doesnt judge wrong from right.. a person does that
Yes, of course, and a person with knowledge does a better job of making decisions, and deciding what is right or wrong. I used knowledge as a collective noun representing a force that is rather an expression of public will, when it gets indignant and rises up. Almost human. I suggest you use a literary mind when reading my posts, not a regimented mind that discounts ideas because it is worrying about the periods and semicolons.
True and effective learning has to do with knowing, feeling and finally, doing. I pray that our millenials, now awakened to action, will continue to move on the basis of what is true and noble, for only then will they be able to survive the harassment to come.. I am of the baby boomer generation, lived through martial law at UP and saw first hand what was happening. In those days there were two kinds of news – those approved by the government and those written by people who knew otherwise. As students we had our own grapevine, so there was a network of information to keep us aware of what was really happening – the faces, the people, the things they endured were on our timeline. That was our advantage.
The youth today have only memories shared by the victims of that time, whose voices over time may soon also fade. They have to decide to believe or not based on the information they gather. In a way they manifest a greater level of faith – not having lived through the experience (an accusation thrown at them, belittling their efforts to be a voice) and yet standing up for their convictions. defending the victims’ rights.. And what makes everything much more complicated – social media has also unleashed news that actually hinder true knowledge, muddling facts, presenting lies and manipulated data.
People have reached an all-time low in interacting online – there is a shortage of critical thinking / objectivity and intelligent discussion. You have experienced bullying yourself, sir, and I am not too worried about its effect on you because of your level of experience and maturity in handling such. But I fear for the youth because they are living at a very different time – now, emotions rule, there is war going on even as people type their reactions (instead of a response) to one another using language that used to be frowned upon. Now young and old alike have resorted to gutter-like conversation, basic respect having diminished even between generations.
We keep having to struggle through a tangled web of emotions, contradictory historical information, personal preferences, even distorted interpretations of “utang na loob” or indebtedness that sacrifice principles. Such a difficult task for our beloved youth to have to handle, their future being at stake. I pray for their hearts and minds to be preserved to continue to see what is good and true in humanity. That is what will help them persevere against the ugliness of current day events. I pray, too, for their spirits to continue to be strengthened as they think on what is noble and righteous and endeavor to act so that goodness will prevail. May God bless our youth.
A very important message, Marie. Maturity has to be discovered, and it is a lifelong process. Thanks.
“It will probably take a purge of military leaders who have risen the ranks under prior administrations and martial law for him to grab and hold on to this type of absolute power.”—caliphman
Why not, caliphman? If Recep Tayyip Erdogan can do it in Turkey, surely President Duterte can do it, too, right guys?
Joe, this latest article of yours is a sweet, sweet shot of hopeful adrenaline direct to my heart which made me misty eyed once more. And I thought they that all they are interested in are their gadgets and socializing with friends. Am so glad, so mightily glad. to all the students and youth out there, you made this old veteran hopeful again, truly we can think that the youth is the hope of our motherland, just as our genuine hero, Rizal, said so.
Thank you Joe, once again.
This is another:
And thank you, Mary Grace, for your always-kind inspirations.
A SCHEMA RELATED TO MARCOS BURIAL PROTEST
Below, I sketched a diagram giving a simple schema on the current Marcos burial protest as a METAPHOR for a larger general or many-sided protest. I include the Administration move, Martial Law, being also a metaphor for a strong move by the Admin. The Counter move in strength is a metaphor for a Strong Counter move which can take many forms.
The red dots at the end of branches are the relative values or “payoffs” to the respective groups:
– the group(s) that mount the protest(s)
– the Administration
– the group(s) that mount the Strong Counter move, not necessarily allied with the group(s) that mount the protest(s)
The simple graphic can be extended along the line of ACTION-REACTION.
The picture is ripe for one that a Game Theorist may use. I am a student of GT and may attempt to do that, but that is not my aim.
My aim is to put in simple graphic form the dynamics of the conflict — a conflict resulting in a probable sunshine at the end but fraught with great risks depending on one’s view or analysis. In game theoretic terms it depends on the values the different groups attach to the dots in the diagram after careful analysis of facts.
I am following the lead of edgar in putting in graphical form the CONFLICT SITUATION. Along the lines of “a picture speaks a thousand words” or some such.
NH,
Very interesting, but how would this same graph look like as an unrooted, probably be able to add probability too as length of the lines?
LCpl_X,
I see you are also a student of or have a feel for GT.
On the root or beginning node, I agree it can be what game theorist labels as a “Chance” Player such as coming from nature events or from a Lottery or a hand of poker, with probabilities to the branches issuing out of that root node.
For a workable GT “decision tree” such as you or I sketched, the different nodes (your black dots) should identify what player is involved at those nodes and what information state the player have before he moves. GT decision trees with nodes which are “simpleton” or having its unique info state for each node is the simplest to solve. Games with several nodes of a player having the same info state is more complex.
I better stop there. Or others may think I am trying to convey that I am an expert on GT which I am not.
I end with — welcome to the GT Student Club of TSH.
🙂
NH, my recent interest in GT came from you by the way. I’ve always used the verb gaming , ie. gaming the system, etc. but you’re the first I’ve met really seriously studying Game Theory, so I’m piggy backing off your hobby… so keep ’em coming.
I’m still wrapping my tiny brain around this, but thanks to you consistently bringing up GT (and stats) in discussions, as Little Tree (from the “Education of Little Tree”) said about Spring, “She’s coming alive, Granpa!”
Joe,
Biliran is under Marce Typhoon Signal 1. Batten down the hatches against a stronger storm when Marce approaches. Bring all San Mig bottles from the beach. 🙂
🙂 The blast is in the past, arriving in the middle of the night. It took off a few tree limbs but didn’t even knock the electricity out. Life is normal the day after.
Good to know. Besides from the map, Biliran is on the relatively safe side shielded by Samar, Leyte islands. Which brings a question you don’t have to answer. It seems your being in Biliran is probably not a random move. It may have been a studied move, at least from the viewpoint of Storm paths.
The reasoning included the physical beauty of the island, the rebel-free, low-crime honesty of working people living here, and having a relative who found us a property we liked. The sheltered lee side of an island on the lee side of Samar has been of some benefit, but Yolanda still managed to destroy a lot. Also, the island is actually categorized as an active volcano, multi-venting, and we have our share of earthquakes, for sure. So it is not quite geological or geographic eden. Comes reasonably close, though.
Ah, less than perfect, but comes close to being a “paradise” with people, among others, who make it so.
tumulong kana lang na ayusin ang gulong idinulot ng administrasyong aquino: corruption, droga pagkakawatak watak. nagsisisi ako sa pagboto ko kay cory at pinoy. hindi ko nakita sa kanila ang long term na plataporma para sa ating bayang minamahal. salamat na lamang at dumating si duterte at mukhang sa kanya ipgkakatiwala ang swiss account. dyan kayo nangangarag dahil mawawala ang mga amo ninyong oligarchs. maipagpapatuloy na ni duterte ang pangarap ni marcos na magkaroon na ulit na progresibo, payapa at self sufficient na bansang Pilipinas! kahit ordinaryong mamamayan lang ako alam ko balak ng mga yellow citizen ang lumikha ng gulo, isisi kay duterte at paupuin si leni. kakaunti lang kayo marami kaming naghahangad ng katahimukan at pagmamahal sa bayan. neknek nyo! no to drugs! no to oligarchs! no to war that u r creating!
My God, there IS an alternative reality! It is the reverse of the real world. There is so much in this post, authoritative statements of the past, present, and future as if delivered from God Himself. Alas, there is no factual basis, and so we have represented here the real problem with conversations on social media. Lunatics are allowed to roam free.
Trouble is that many representatives of what Manolo Quezon terms as the new middle class, formed out of the money earned from migration starting from the 1970s, of simple origins, believe in exactly this kind of nonsense – I look at FB walls of migrant families sometimes…
And this new middle class – also partly created by Marcos who bloated the military, police and government apparatus – feels it ain’t getting a “piece of the action” of what is going on in “Makati” where the “rich yellows” from “Ateneo and La Salle” are perceived to be. Compare this a bit with the resentment of the many Trump supporters against the perceived “Ivy League” and “Wall Street” and you get an idea of where certain lunatic interpretations are coming from.
Yes, that makes sense. But the reasoning is so bizarre, so detached from truth, that these kinds of postings are the anti-knowledge that is infesting social media. I get bruises on my forehead from considering that this what many consider critical thinking.
“Compare this a bit with the resentment of the many Trump supporters against the perceived “Ivy League” and “Wall Street”
It wasn’t just IV League and Wall St., I would lump the Entertainment industry also (to which the Media these days are very much part of). That’s why that last weekend for Hillary was very crucial , Comey’s stating that the FBI re-booted Hillary’s investigation via another investigation of Weiner played a big role, yes; BUT no pundits ever mentions Hillary and Beyonce dancing around,
Hillary did her whirlwind tour of the rust belt, yes, but she ended it with celebrities, many of whom represented values espoused by the Capitol of PANEM (if you catch my drift), excess…
EXCESS, if what Hillary never understood, but ironically Trump was mouthing all this…
just the fact that he was mouthing it, was good enough for folks in the Rust Belt, Bible Belt and the South, IMHO— I’m sure it didn’t escape them that Trumps an NYC billionaire who was a Democrat just 3 years ago, and if you notice he never even thanked GOD in his victory speech (any other speeches for that matter, which is a repudiation of the Evangelical movement IMHO).
BUT I ‘m not sure , excess is at play in the Philippines, since IMHO everyone from poor to rich are materialistic (whereas over here, particularly in the Rockies states, people can and have lived simply), I propose it’s the hierarchical de facto caste system there, ie. yes, the rich drive around in Ferrari’s and fly in private helicopters over there ,
which happens here too , but it’s how the top half of that caste pyramid treats the bottom that’s at play IMHO , over here for example if some Hollywood celebrity or Silicon Valley mogul drives his Lamborghini to some lonely diner in Wyoming and starts acting a fool, he will be beaten up—-
there’s a sense that you’re no better than us , but in the Philippines people actually bow their heads , IMHO that’s the operant variable here… PEOPLE are sick and tired of bowing, but they like the EXCESS, or the illusion of it.
Filipinos are angry but they’ve not caught on, with how to be productively obstinate. Yet. Like the Great Zen Master said, “Let’s see…”
“Filipinos are angry but they’ve not caught on, with how to be productively obstinate.”
takes time to learn that if you come from a culture where the only known choices are dominance and submissiveness (bowing) – ref. to Joe’s article about “face and power interactions”..
the 1986 revolution against Marcos started off as a people’s movement but soon flocked more around another of the elite families – the Aquinos. The urban millenials of today don’t need to raise a new ruling family up the throne anymore, maybe. Societies take time to evolve I think.
I agree. And think the learning curb has been easier due to social media, learning from others obstinance around the globe… but social media meet-ups/protests/flash mobs are temporary.
IMHO getting angered at abstract stuff like history , is less worthwhile than getting angered at other Filipinos dumping their trash in the rivers (whether they are poor or corporations), real time, physical stuff worth being pissed off about.
Are these Marcos Burial protests gonna circle back around to orphanages and dump sites any time soon, or do they all end up at some posh eatery somewhere?
There’s different types of protests, ones based on true anger and ones based on the simple need for social interaction (to be seen) as below,
Sir, aside from lunacy, I believe their alternative reality is based on lack of critical analysis of the progression of events. We went from being a respected nation to the depths of abuse in the years of martial law. Though Cory and Ramos were instrumental in helping to restore the freedom we had lost and were beginning to enjoy, they had only 12 years to attempt recovery from the damage inflicted by decades of Marcos rule. These two presidents were not infallible in their governance, but at least we had the voice to express dissatisfaction, as they were, after all, in the service of the people.
The presidents who came after, Estrada (through election) and Arroyo (through automatic succession when Estrada had to step down due to corruption) brought us back to zero when ideals we wanted our country to again embrace and manifest were replaced by criminal activities and a return to the system we had tried to disentangle ourselves from. Today they roam free and occupying positions of power, still influential, still able to speak on behalf of their kind.
What does that do to the psyche of both the thinking and non-thinking population? Two steps forward, 2 steps back. Back to zero The positive gains were negated by the return to wrong governance. Now PNoy comes on the scene for 6 years, again trying to move forward from this point zero, but again people have voted for another president who, despite his resolve to rid the country of the drug problem, is also showing holes in his style of governance. How do we move forward when there is no continuity, considering the tiresome / frustrating habit of tearing down the good that had been built before?
The blame game is very rampant today – but sadly we the people have continued to use our freedom to vote for those who take us backward and yet crucify those who attempt to move our country forward. Motives do count, not just campaign promises that tickle the people’s ears. We need not just to know, but to discern. Once again we find ourselves at a critical point in government, and this time it is the millennials who have stepped forward to pursue the ideals many citizens have let go of. Beyond their gadgets and penchant for selfies, which have labeled them as being self-absorbed, we see a generation that is thinking and aiming to bring our country to where she belongs. Hopefully this time people will listen, think, render the kind of support they need. Their ally is information; their enemy is likewise “information.”
“We need not just to know, but to discern.” Yes, yes, yes. You can write a guest blog here any time, Marie.
Very kind of you, sir, am content with reading your blog and the many enlightening comments and helpful information by your readers… visuals included…contributing my two cents’ worth. when a particular detail strikes a chord within me.. as a form of catharsis, perhaps, if I cannot agree and also when I am reassured someone else feels the same way. Other blogs give me a heartache due to lack of effort in finding out what is really true. I am a true believer in research … in finding out what is really going on behind the scenes. Discernment helps one make better decisions and prevent unfortunate consequences.
Discern. Word of the year.
King Solomon had unlimited riches, lived the ultimate “good life” and yet found everything meaningless. So he asked God for wisdom – the ability to see a situation and present the right solution (remember the case of two mothers fighting over a baby, how he determined who was the true mother) … discernment… knowing that things are not always as they seem, based on information gathered through our senses.
Sadly many of our leaders are still experimenting with the riches, power and glory aspects of their existence. Later they will find everything is meaningless, especially when faced with circumstances over which they have no control. What hurts most is that they are taking the rest of the nation with them on their journey, sacrificing the future of the younger generation. As a teacher who has interacted with preschoolers up to young adults, this saddens me very much because there are so many bright yet still impressionable minds in need of proper guidance with regard to values, judgment and attitude.
Information is easy to find, handling and filtering them to be used constructively is an entirely different matter. They need to learn to wisely read between the lines. Sadly even adults have become part of the problem, the cause of young people’s frustration. It is a good thing that there remain living role models that can help show the way.
Thank you, sir, for the window of opportunity to express what we readers feel and think. God bless you and your family.
Thank you for expressing your ideas so clearly and sensibly. Best to you, as well.
Filipinos are idiots and so is this post. It is giving too much credit to the supposed “knowledge” that people had acquired but one important element is missing and that is WISDOM.
Thanks for swooping in with that bit of uplift, Lestat. I can see that you one of the new breed of on-line moralist who contains all the wisdom of the universe within his skull, seeing fit to sneer at people who are simply trying to build something rather than just cast easy judgments and complain.
Joe, perhaps he literally meant exactly what he wrote. That he is a Filipino idiot and what he just posted is idiotic. Right, Lestat?
So “this” is referring to his own post? LOL!
Ahhhhhhhh, well that makes sense. Thanks for the clarification! 🙂 🙂
Knowledge. Arriving there is a difficult journey, one fraught with danger because it entails painful admissions of a generation’s shortcomings. But attempt the journey we must if only so that we (baby boomers) may find peace and redemption as the shadows lengthen around us.
That said, allow me to posit: We are largely responsible for the situation we now have; and what we are now.
Ours was a comfortable, well- educated lot. We were taught good was good and bad was bad, to differentiate justice from injustice, that there was a Divine Providence who looked askance at wrongdoing. But we didn’t learn; because what we knew, we didn’t fully and consistently practice. A lot of us aspired for and achieved goals far beyond our expectations. We were practical, conventional, materialistic and happy… and proud to be so. We compromised.
We called ourselves Filipinos but loved Uncle Sam of the land of milk and honey. Read Bonifacio and Jose Rizal but could not connect their love for Inang Bayan with the life we were living. Ah but we were good at choosing our leaders. We put into office Recto, Diokno, Manglapus, Manahan, Tolentino et al. Exemplars of nationalism, intelligence and rectitude. We also practiced ‘delicadeza’ and employed censure to put in their proper place violators of ethics.
We were like ground sown with the seeds of what could be a great nation, some parts of which were arid and rock-strewn, others moist and fertile.
Our test started in the sixties when the world in flux came to our shores through student activism. A small noisy, passionate sector of us did and joined rallies; the rest went about, well, going to school till we graduated.
When martial law was imposed in ’73 we were in our early twenties. We were gainly employed, dreaming of a promotion, a bigger salary and more. We thought martial law was a good thing because it ended the disruptive street demonstrations, jailed suspected communists, improved obedience to traffic rules and the peace and order situation because there was a curfew.
We were greatly impressed by the government’s programs on rice self-sufficiency, economic development and cultural revival anchored on being a true Filipino.
When things started to go bad, we didn’t pay much attention because our priority was sustaining our personal upward trajectory. An arrest here, a disappearance there, Imelda’s foreign junkets and extravaganzas, Marcos’ cronies cornering of the banana,sugar and rice production and trading we simply ignored. We admired and applauded the people who were able to sidle into the corridors of power, and tried to get ‘connected’ to them.
After awhile the abuses mounted, the economy faltered. We became afraid, restless.
Then Ninoy Aquino was assassinated.
We woke up, as though from a stupor or a bad dream,depends where or what we were at when it happened.
Now 30 years after, we are staring unrest and another Martial Law in the face. I truly believe this. My gut tells me so.
Baby Boomers, time of reckoning. Where and why did we fail? Allow me to suggest a few observations:
– We forgot about our children, what they could be made to feel about their own country. Our mantra was: go abroad (USA, Canada), have a good life; better than what we your parents have made here in the Philippines.
We swapped love of country for a suburban house on mortgage, a new european or american car, a two week annual vacation and an $$$ retirement pension at 60.. We failed to see that this country needed them.
– Did we teach them (and ourselves) that evil is only expiated by atonement. Our mistaken–distorted?– understanding of Christianity told us to forgive and forget the grave offenses committed against us as a people;
Why didn’t we compel the schools to teach our children the full story of Martial Law, and not only that, what it means to be a true Filipino.
– As elders, do we really have a clear concept of justice, else why is this country crawling with lawyers? The SC rules on a burial in language and tenor that would leave the Furies in tears. What have we done?
– We have been running on default mode> Why is that? Are we too tired to act? Or have we become moral sloths? Or do we simply do not care as in our earlier days?
Knowledge about anything is better appreciated when approached from knowledge about oneself, what one thinks, feels and believes in.
The Marcos regime tried to corrupt knowledge in its favor. But like some folks said, Knowledge is entire of itself and brooks neither coercion or distortion. It simply is.
I hope the Duterte government understands that.
The Duterte government does not appear to think with an eye to right or wrong, or even the success of the nation. Why else would you destroy relationship with the richest and side with the autocratic states that don’t offer the enrichment of soul found in freedom, but the shriveled soul found in control. Thanks for the brief. I’ve written about some of the questions you raise, and don’t care to recite them. But I’m glad you are thinking things through in a constructive way.
Thanks for this personal history of the postwar period, how your generation saw Martial Law and later was shocked by what they had tolerated or even enabled.
This is history in the profoundest sense, kasaysayan as “salaysay na may saysay” i.e. as a meaningful narrative of the people. In fact it is a clear message I see to the youth of today who are the same age as you were when Martial Law started – Mene Mene Tekel Upharsin.
The writing’s on the wall… it’s go time!
knowledge rising? baka kamo ignorance rising? the inability to accept the truth and insist on lies is not only Duterte’s problem but of the whole Philippines. wala tayong future if we will dwell on hatred and sabi-sabi lang ng yellowtards. God bless PH.
I hope both sides find the courage not to call each other tards.
@Duday Garcia
1. Truth has two faces. Ugly or beautiful. Who will accept the ugly truth? No one.
Who will accept the beautiful truth? Almost all.
2. To accept the truth,one must know the truth itself. Which truth are you saying, by the way?
3. Lies has only one face. Ugly. Who would insists ugliness? No one.
4. If there are lies, there must be liars. Who are the liars? Liars are people
who are manipulative and Machiavellian not to mention overly concerned with the
impression they make on others.( Journal of Personality and Social Psychology, DePaulo
and Deborah A. Kashy, Ph.D., of Texas A&M University,)
6. If you would like people to accept the ugly truth and insist (on) the ugly lies by the liars, that is
more than ignorance, it is stupidity.
7. Thus, for whom is knowledge? For those who do not accept the ugly truth and insist there
are liars.
P.S. Here in TSH, people are color blind.
I really like this observation, Thea, and have re-posted it on my Facebook page.
Darn straight! Yes,we are color blind, we are not hating, we may hate most of Duterte’s decisions and words, but it is for obvious reasons, not some blind advocacy(ies).
We need a rating scale based on the content of a remark. If a comment is wild, compared to what is known, we can conclude that the commenter is either lying or ignorant. Well, we should not be in the business of calling names. But we can score based on the gap between what is said and what is known. For example, if a comment is the absolute opposite of intelligent truth, we’d score it a 10. The writer is a liar (manipulative) or ignorant. If the comment aligns well with what is known, the writer gets a 1. That way I don’t have to waste time arguing with the comment. When a troll visits, I can just type “10”. Then go out and shoot baskets. When Edgar comments, I can just type “1” then wrack my brain for the response he has earned.
1
🙂 🙂 🙂 lol
😉
When Edgar comments, I can just type “1” then wrack my brain for the response he has earned.
Hahaha!
-10
(Meaning — very deep)
10 -10=0. If 0 is not an acceptable score-number, will go for -1. The lower the score, the higher the value.
Also….the lower the score, the deeper the wisdom.
How can we hope to achieve the betterment of ourselves if we have a very divisive, vacillating leadership?
fuckin hypocrites.knowledge is what the common man has now and it will forever erase the darkness of the church, the elite and the yellowtards. We are ready for war. Civil war is the answer.
Civil war? Wow, check this out https://joeam.com/2016/11/16/dear-son-get-angry/
Welcome to the blog, jackson. Always good to witness a man of action tossing civility into the gutter.
He was very “civil”.
We have limits. We do not wish to watch this country become another Cambodia, with Khmer Rouge purges and culling.
10
🙂 Concur
I am in favor of Digongs, about Marcos burial in Libingan ng mga bayani, alam ko ung mga anti Marcos, yan ung mga kristiyano na d marunong magpatawad, gusto lang ng gulo kaya nasa 3rd world country pa rin tau, dahil d tau marunong mag move on, dapat magtulungan tungo sa 1st world country.
You are in favor of Digongs? I am in favor of Diggings. Hukayin!
I feel sad when this kind of argument regarding forgiveness is used, because if all we need is to forgive one another all the time, then an explanation in needed – why do we put people in prison at all? Why do we put our children through years of schooling to become esteemed lawyers? Why would we be selective about who to forgive if we believe no one should be above the law?
Using that logic, the prison system is a waste of taxpayer’s money, all we need to do is forgive and let them continue in their ways, to be forgiven again and again. If a criminal breaks into your home, steals your possessions, hurts your family, uses your wealth to live the life that was meant for you – forgive and move on…?
I am a Christian, I know how to forgive, I have forgiven many times, but when a law is broken, when injustice occurs, that is where I know lawyers come onto the scene and if a person is convicted, he goes to jail. And incidentally, the person that the criminal has wronged may find it in his heart to forgive, BUT the important thing is he receives justice because the person who did wrong is made to pay for his crime according to the sentence the court decides upon.
Moving on with no people learning that crime does not pay will encourage more of such abusive behavior, it is a mindset that will spread, frustrating those who yearn for what is noble and godly in life.and the truth is, it will be the thing which will actually prevent us from becoming the 1st world country we long for. Where have our values gone?
*******
Marie, thanks.
*****
Thank you also, sir, for your comments and visuals. I appreciate the combination, ensures greater clarity.
1 for Marie….and thanks for a shareable comment….may I?
By all means, you may.
We cannot hope for prosperity if this leadership is erratic.
You only capitalize on what you consider as the burial of FM inside the LNMB as a valid reason for you to claim that President Duterte and those millions of supporters who voted for him are all wrong and that because you have the kind of special knowledge to know “the truth from wrong” is always right. That is the height of stupidity! When our country was plunged into the illegal drugs business where almost anybody in the government of BS Aquino were not minding it as long as their own political interest is assured even if the poor were almost crying blood for the kind of help from the government that didn’t come but you did not raise a howl of protest but now under DU30 that the poor are given special attention and care there you are trying to proclaim to the whole world that you are doing a valid fight against a government who truly looks after the welfare of the poor against the abuse if the powerful rich who are already enslaved by the glitter of money?! You are truly a hoax, an impostor who tries to hoodwink the people that you are for the greater good of the people but in reality you are a slave to the outrageous governance of Aquino whose priority is only for the rich and to make him politically powerful but he was not supported by the majority of the people for they know they can only find honest, sincere, and truly pro-people leadership under President Digong who fears nobody to lead our country out of the grip of illegal drugs to make this country prosperous and safe for everybody to live without the fear of being molested by the drug addicts that proliferate during the time of BS Aquino.
I hate draaags, specially if it’s the only argument used….
Nice meeting you, too.
To a blind bystander –
Duterte is an anti- drug crusader who is here to clean up the country of drugs.
The bystander is blind as he could not see the president coddling a drug Lord and allowing him to exit the country.
Duterte is an anti-corruption fighter who will rid the country of the evil corrupt elites.
The bystander is blind as he could not see the BPI bank accounts of Dodirty receiving billions of pesos from Imee.
10
“War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength.” – George Orwell
Bystander, visit the PDEA website, the accomplishment reports from 2011 to 2015 are still intact.
Here is an example.
Click to access 20132nationalantidrugaccomplishment.pdf
The Marcoses underestimated the millenneals.
Just as the old Marcos underestimated the baby boomers, the Martial Law babies and the GenX.
It warms my heart seeing all of these generations marching together for a common cause. The veterans guiding and imparting their wisdom to the millenneals. The millenneals in turn taking on the banner of the old parliamentarians of the streets. The millenneals are ready. They are ready to defend their future and the next generation.
And because of them, I am hopeful again.
Yes, for sure the President has set aside any idea about “giving him time” to show what he can do. He showed, and people care . . .
I so love the millennial’s wit and humor….and they proved to us that they are not sleeping, they are awake and aware all along, thank God !!!
Seen in a placard at the Nov. 30 protest:
IMME’S FACE IS A NATIONAL TREASURE!
WE PAID FOR IT
Jose Leonidas commented at FB: Mabuhay millenials, Lola at lolonials.
ouch..my knees, my back …
You are very much misinformed historically and factually. Real progress and awakening began when Marcos began his civilian presidency for 8 years and then the succeeding martial law regime ratified by the people in a referendum that saved the Philippines from becoming a communist country. Ask Fidel Ramos and Enrile on this. They are the experts on this, no one else…not you or anyone you know.
“… in a referendum that saved the Philippines from becoming a communist country. “
Was this referendum legit?
Whether yes or no (I know there’s gonna be some back & forth with that first question… )
the next question is, At what cost?
(kinda like being really drunk, and averting an ugly fat girl— communism—- the night prior, but instead waking up the next morning beside a transexual who’s only half-way through SRS, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_reassignment_surgery … and you’ve been the catcher, ouch! )
Whenever there was referendum during the Marcos Era, people knew beforehand what will be the result. It was always in favor of the dictator.
@Paf, there is no referendum that relates to communism or” that could have saved the Philippines from becoming a communist country.” Rather, all referendums were held to extend Marcos power if not to create more power.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Referendums_in_the_Philippines
What are your credentials, Paf? You seem to be peddling a political point of view in the guise of some special understanding that most of the educated world does not accept. What is your education, your job, your background in history?
Misinformed?
We do have a library. We also use these little things called Google and Encarta.
Sir, Facebook is not our primary source of information.
This poor children, who was instructed by those who opress doesn’t know the truth beyond what they basking and shouting on the streets, they only contributed on a gleem miss conception on how to be make things gone right, because what of whom instructed to them is what they knew right but they does not, for me this kind of rally are nonsense and idiot way because there are somebody laughing behind all of this…..
Okay, Renato, thanks for that interpretation. So given that most are from the PH’s top schools, we can conclude that all the rest of PH youth are really, really stupid?
Sir Joe, I had a somewhat difficult time understanding the flow of thought in renato’s post, all I could glean from it was he pitied the children because of their ignorance? I dare say we could ask some elementary, high school and college students to post their thoughts about their stepping up to center stage to fight for what they believe is right and perhaps even use a more comprehensive vocabulary (including better spelling skills and subject-verb agreement), which would put some of us (adults) to shame. I have read some posts of very young people regarding current issues and the depth of their thinking is quite impressive.
I hope this younger set of good-thinking people becomes more prominent in voicing out their views. I tire of the same old diatribe from the same old codgers in government. Maybe the Marcos burial will awaken the nation and launch a fresh set of leaders onto the scene, those more steeped in thinking and good works than power and favor.
We have had a few millenials at TSH here who surprised us.
Possibly too busy being on the street and at real-life meetings now to visit here.
True that.
True Mami Kawada Lover, Francis,some more who said that they are still in College.
Madlanglupa, Are you one of those bright millenials?
To insult their awakening is a great mistake on your part.
Nice one Renato, keep those lies coming and challenge the able minded millenials. For your info, they are not kids anymore that who will believe whatever adult tell them so. We are on a time that truth is available online from reliable resources and not from the Facebook post that you and your same minded legions are spreading.
’10!’
A good read again,Joe.
Knowledge can be dictated and that is what our present educational system is doing,unfortunately. Teachers (my apology to some)are just repetitive informers unaware that they are bearing more uninterested students. Lazy. Unresponsive. Vulnerable. Most teachers tell students what to do instead of how it came about and how it will affect the lives of people.This is evident on the undesirable comments thrown to the courageous and free spirited children of St. Scholastica’s as if it is not how our children must be schooled. Time to change teaching technique,perhaps?
Knowledge is nothing if not coupled with awareness, perception. What is presently happening has begun with the awareness of injustices. With objection to obvious disregard of civility by the Marcoses and Duterte administration. That awareness will challenge the mind to learn more,read more. Tickling the intelligence of our youth. To have critical thinking.
This time, there must be no political color. Let the idealism of the youth lead them to their future for they are not creating it for us, they are building it for them. We will just be a guiding spirit. We must be at the back watching them and if asked, share our knowledge and experiences. For what is knowledge if we will not share it?
I am confident, new leaders are born today.
And,it is good to see that the Aquinos are distancing from this initiative. Let it be.
Keen observation, re Aquinos letting new voices rise. I hope some specific new people move into the public eye.
you echo the values our parents left us, i was a student during the edsa years and with limited resources made posters. it was as it is now. humbled to see it happen.
1 for Thea
Truth will always be strong!
https://mobile.twitter.com/ABSCBNNews/status/802051916704292864/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
Hitler’s Youth yells planted more than anything else
Im pretty sure that some hundred thousands of Filipinos would agree to this. Against tens of million people who wouldn’t. What’s wrong about this is, those hundred thousands filipinos will say that they’re right and the rest of the people are stupid-wrong.
I’d say the millions who voted for Poe and Robredo would oppose the Marcos burial. Many who voted for Binay would as well, and a lot of Duterte supporters have voiced protest about the burial. It could be that the concepts running around in your mind have created an erroneous reality, and I’d advise that will be problematic if you try to apply that to your work or personal life. You’ll end up making really bad decisions.
But we will see if knowledge rises, or does not . . .
Get real and know what really is at stake here. We don’t want a divided but one nation.
I know of no one who does not. The question is, what values will we live by? Those are what unifies a nation. Burial of Marcos creates division because it offends so many people’s values. Same with EJKs. You can’t just order unity. Real unity. It has to be earned.
Leadership wants unity, but at what price do we need to pay? Favoring some people he likes? Trying to win friends from questionable quarters?
FILIPINO NECROPOLITICS AND THE PERIPATETIC CORPSE
Necropolitics is defined as “the relationship between sovereignty and power over life and death.”
In Philippine usage, it is the impact of a death on political outcomes or the use of death as a political instrument.
***
The dictator Ferdinand Marcos and his family were exiled to Honolulu, Oahu, Hawaii on February 25, 1986.
Three years later, Marcos died in exile on September 28, 1989. He was 72. He was interred in a private mausoleum at Byodo-in Temple, a non-denominational shrine. His body was kept in a refrigerated, glass-topped coffin inside an air-conditioned crypt.
Prior to Marcos’s death and during his exile, his mother, Josefa, passed away in Manila on May 4, 1988. She was 95. She was not buried immediately but kept in a refrigerated coffin. The reason for this was to persuade President Corazon (Cory) C. Aquino, who was Marcos’s nemesis and successor, to allow the dictator to come home for her funeral.
President Cory refused to give in to the necropolitical pressure.
Subsequently, after Marcos’s death, President Cory also rejected the pleas of his widow, Imelda, to allow his burial on native soil. She cited reasons of national security.
However, President Cory, allowed Imelda to return on November 4, 1991. On the face of it, her decision seemed to be advantageous to the country. Imelda would face multiple embezzlement charges and, with her presence, there were greater chances to prove and recover the stolen wealth of the conjugal dictatorship. Looking back, we can see how terribly naive the decision was in the face of the convoluted ways of Filipino justice.
Imelda left behind the unburied body of her husband in Hawaii. President Cory no longer felt national security was threatened, and she thought the dictator’s body could be brought home if he was taken directly to Ilocos Norte.
For her part, however, Imelda said she would bring her husband home only when she could bury him near Manila. Thus the necropolitical battle for a resting place at the Libingan ng mga Bayani (LNMB) begun.
In 1992, Fidel V. Ramos was elected president. A year later, he allowed the repatriation of Marcos’s remains on the condition that he be buried in his hometown of Batac, Ilocos Norte. Ramos made it clear Marcos did not deserve full state honors.
Ramos’s expedient and necropolitical reasons for the return were to win the support of the Marcos constituency and to douse their passion. Accordingly, on September 7, 1993, the body was flown to Laoag, Ilocos Norte.
This necropolitical win was followed by a lost. In the same month, Imelda was found guilty of corruption and sentenced to a maximum 12-year jail term. She was freed on bail. The case was elevated to the Supreme Court which affirmed the judgment against her in June 1998. Four months later in October 1998, her conviction was overturned by the Supreme Court which ruled 8-5 in her favour. (An 8-5 or 9-5 Supreme Court ruling seems to spell injustice.)
From 1993 to 2016, Marcos’s cadaver, or a wax replica thereof, was housed and exhibited in a mausoleum in Batac, Ilocos Norte. He lay enclosed in a glass crypt inside an air-conditioned room serenaded by Gregorian music. Many tourists flocked to gawk at the dead dictator. Imelda was often photographed beside the crypt with her beribboned and bemedalled husband in profile. In the photos, she is either looking at him with eternal adoration or smooching the glass.
During this 23-year period, three presidents came and went, with Marcos’s burial at the LNMB a hot political issue.
o Joseph Estrada supported LNMB burial but bowed to strong public opposition.
o President Gloria Macapagal-Arroyo did not support LNMB burial due to strong opposition from the Church.
o President Benigno Aquino tasked Vice President Jejomar Binay to study the matter. Binay recommended burial in Ilocos Norte with full military honors.
It finally took candidate and President Rodrigo Duterte to fully support LNMB burial and to bring the matter to a head. Like Ramos before him, Duterte sought to win the Marcos constituency and to earn and repay the financial support he received from daughter Imee Marcos for his campaign.
In the dead of day on November 18, 2016, after 27 long years, Marcos was sneakily buried at the Heroes’ Cemetery. His bones rest in a small wooden coffin in a large crypt equipped with a hydraulic system and refrigerated unit.
The reasons for this surreptitious maneuver were to present the nation with a fait accompli, to realize the goal of redeeming the dictator’s name, and to nurture the ambition of a Marcos return to Malacanang. If not son Bongbong, then an heir from the succeeding generation. These heirs are already standing in the wings… and their names appear in offshore trusts founded on their grandfather’s seemingly inexhaustible stolen wealth.
It is doubtful that Marcos will be allowed to rest in peace. It is equally doubtful the Filipino people will be allowed to enjoy peace away from necropolitics and the turbulence from this utmost wilful and most unscrupulous of political dynasties.
*****
1
Knowledge is POWER. But alas, POWER is dangerous! It’s nothing but a tool, a tool to get something done. Just like fire, a tool that can be used for good as well as for evil, I repeat—power is dangerous! Knowledge is dangerous! To be used for good, knowledge should first of all, foster UNITY, GOODWILL, and NOBLE THOUGHTS. Otherwise, innocence would have been a much, much better alternative.
Believe it or not, even God Himself had doubts about how humans would use KNOWLEDGE if given to them. Remember how he forbade Adam and Eve to partake of the tree of KNOWLEDGE!
Bottom line. “Will my knowledge do me any good? Will my knowledge do good to others? Will my knowledge hurt someone?”
Food for thought today.
“Remember how he forbade Adam and Eve to partake of the tree of KNOWLEDGE!”
You ever wonder why God didn’t forbid both Adam & Eve to eat from the Tree of Life?
—–If it was equally as important as the Tree of Knowledge as to warrant the expulsion of both Adam & Eve:
Genesis 3:22-24 King James Version (KJV)
22 And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
23 Therefore the Lord God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.
24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the Tree of Life.
And then came the Philippine Congress, and asked Adam and Eve what they did in detail.
And Adam was the kiss-and-tell type, to the consternation of Eve.
9.5
The 9.5 is for A.R.T.
I think this scoring system will work fine. It saves labor of the brain and reduces frustration. It is futile to talk with people who are generally here to make a “one-off” statement, then depart without discussing it, and it is futile to talk with vendors of pig’s ears, because the fact that they are vending them is proof-positive that they are not in a teaching/learning mindset. Mostly, they throw their words against the wall and hope something sticks, or that they get paid.
Precise. Concrete. Can’t get any better than that when expressing a response.
Thank you LG. I would like to continue my discourse with the distinction between KNOWLEDGE and WISDOM. Personally, I would not be proud of whatever KNOWLEDGE I may have, because in today’s age, knowledge is a dime a dozen. All one has to do is simply search Google for information, and lo and behold, knowledge! WISDOM—that’s the gem. And what’s wisdom? It’s the sense of perceiving a distinction between what’s important and what’s not.
I wouldn’t waste my time on the streets parading my knowledge about the Marcos regime. So what? Even if I were a victim, shouting until my throat aches won’t reverse time. What happened, happened. Those who can’t agree with me just better get inside a time machine and change the world that way.
But there are better ways to change the world.
And one of the ways, if not the best way, is to MOVE ON. Change is rooted in the future. Not in the past.
Values are eternal. They brought down Marcos I, they are what Marcos II does not possess, they will drive the future. You can say what you say for yourself, but when you moralize it as best for others you score 10.
A.R.T.
So why do we study History, whether Philippine History, US History, British, etc. and most of all the Bible? Because history teaches us lessons, that’s why….lessons made from the mistakes of the past so future generations will not repeat the same mistakes.
Children and adolescents who do not listen to their elders because of their arrogant beliefs that they know everything, that experiences from their parents and other elders which should guide them in the future without undergoing through the same hardships and mistakes should, according to you, no longer be remembered nor discussed, and just MOVE ON….just depend on google, Mocha and her trolls? Gong back to trial and error instead of learning from the wisdom of the past?
Dictatorship is evil, rubber stamp congress erase check and balance, we learned that from the Marcos era; also the fact that martial law can be abused because we give so much power to the military. So why are you resisting these protest actions and expressions of disgust when it is quite clear that this government is clearly reverting back to the practices of the hated Marcos regime? Do we keep silent when the current president is mouthing the suspension of the writ of habeas corpus, or threatening to declare martial law at the slightest provocation and that congress has transforming itself to con-ass to hastily change the freedom constitution to pave the way to lifting controls placed there by the framers so that never again shall martial law be used by future dictators?
Rooted in the future, not in the past. Where did you learn that kind of wisdom?
“Ang di lumingon sa pinanggalingan, di makakarating sa paroroonan.” How do we best translate that? Those who do not look back from the past will not reach their destination….
Mary Grace, if your father whacks you because of your unruly, wayward and defiant behaviour, I won’t blame him—I’d blame you! Marcos was driven to impose martial law because of the uncontrollable riots and anarchy nationwide. I was a first-hand witness to that. Were you?
“Sa ikauunlad ng bayan, disiplina ang kailangan…” This was Marcos’ battlecry. Unheeded, unfortunately.
Remember the Mendiola massacre, among countless others. Read between the lines of the news reports and be horrified!
If you’re a parent and your child burns your house deliberately, let me see you smile through all of it. Your reaction will be to whack him, correct? And by so doing, you’re the dictator. Whoa!
Anton
If you work your ass out and pay your taxes deligently and saved every peso you can, then your child stole your money, every freaking peso, who you gonna blame.?
The thief or housekeeper?
That is why the Pre-Martial Law and Martial Law should be part of the curriculum.
So people would know.
Wisdom is living for the future by learning from the past.
“if your father whacks you because of your unruly, wayward and defiant behaviour, I won’t blame him—I’d blame you!”
uhmmm….the same way Trajano was whacked, eh?..just because he dared question the nepotism practiced in Imee’s appointment as KB chairman…he was tortured beyond recognition, and left dead in the street…Imee admitted (in a Guam court) there was torture and killing, but hey, you have no jurisdiction over me, she said…
So you were one of the first hand witnesses (but you chose to swallow hook, line and sinker the propaganda used as basis for the declaration of Martial law) huh, so you choose to MOVE ON…
What if one of your sons gets tortured and killed just because he was curious enough to be “unruly, wayward and with defiant behaviour”, like ask a question on illegal EJKS or just about anything since this executive is on record as saying ” Do not hesitate to attack me, criticize me if I do wrong in my job. It is your duty to your country.”? so again, what if it’s one of your sons, can you still MOVE ON?
In all the left leaning groups’ never ending rallies and effigies burning and egg throwing sprees during the Aquinos’ watch, they never threatened to kill those protestors the way the current president is doing so with the rightist groups protesting the EJKs.
Don’t you feel just a wee bit emphatic for the plight of those who are trying to fight for genuine freedom and democracy, for the genuine and constitutional war on drugs and corruption?
@Anton, okay. Let us assume that the supposed human rights violations were not violations but a form of self-defense and self-preservation. Let it be conceded for now. However, what of the blatant corruption and money grab? Just look at the Batan Nuclear Power Plant deal with Westinghouse.
TL;DR
Two proposals were submitted by reputable energy companies — General Electric and Westinghouse Electric. General Electric submitted a proposal containing detailed specifications of the nuclear plant and estimated it to cost US$700 million. On the other hand, Westinghouse submitted a lower cost estimate of US$500 million, but the proposal did not contain any detail or specification.
The presidential committee tasked to oversee the project preferred General Electric’s proposal, but this was overruled by Marcos in June 1974 who signed a letter of intent awarding the project to Westinghouse, despite the absence of any specifications on their proposal. By March 1975, Westinghouse’s cost estimate ballooned to US$.5billion without much explanation. The National Power Corporation would later construct ONLY ONE NUCLEAR REACTOR for US$1.1 billion.
It would soon be discovered that Westinghouse sold the similar technology to other countries for only a fraction of the project cost it billed the Philippines
After Marcos, the Philippine government did decide to file a case. However, for reasons I can’t understand, the Philippine Government decided for an “amicable” settlement.
“PITTSBURGH, Oct. 15— The Westinghouse Electric Corporation said it had reached a settlement with the Government of the Philippines that ends litigation over an idled nuclear-power plant and lifts that nation’s ban on Westinghouse products.
While terms were not disclosed, Westinghouse said late Friday that it would take a $45 million charge for the settlement in its third quarter.
The Philippine Government agreed to drop a 1988 lawsuit that accused Westinghouse, which is based here, and Burns & Roe Enterprises of bribing Ferdinand E. Marcos in the 1970’s to win the contract to build the $2.2 billion plant. It also agreed to rescind its two-year-old ban on Westinghouse products.
The “amicable settlement” is less than the $200 million payment Manila proposed last month, a Westinghouse official said.”
http://www.nytimes.com/1995/10/16/business/westinghouse-pact-with-philippines.html
=======
Detailed events:
{In 1973 Marcos ordered National Power to negotiate a deal to buy two 600- megawatt nuclear plants. By early 1974 GE was deep into negotiations with National Power. Apparently looking for a way to leapfrog GE, Westinghouse’s district manager in the Philippines, Len Sabol, went to Jesus Vergara for help. Vergara, a Filipino, was president of Asia Industries Inc., a subsidiary of U.S. Industries, then a highflying U.S. outfit, which later was taken over by Hanson Trust in England. Asia Industries distributed commercial and industrial products for Westinghouse in the Philippines. According to a confidential SEC summary of its earlier investigation, Vergara told Sabol that Westinghouse should hire a lobbyist who was close to Marcos.}
{HE LED Sabol to Herminio Disini, the well-connected chairman of Herdis Management & Investment, a Philippine conglomerate. Disini played golf regularly with Marcos; his wife was Imelda Marcos’s cousin and medical adviser. Vergara told FORTUNE he mentioned the job to Disini after a round on the links at the Wack Wack Golf and Country Club in Manila, but Disini wasn’t interested until Vergara pointed out that the commission could run well into the millions.}
{On May 7, 1974, Disini swung open the doors to Malacanang Palace and Westinghouse’s salesmen made their pitch directly to Marcos and his cabinet. They offered to supply a single plant with two 620-megawatt reactors at a base price of $500 million. Other charges, for such things as fuel and transmission lines, raised the estimated total price to around $650 million before interest and inflation during the construction period.
{By this time, GE had spent nearly nine months wooing the Filipinos, but had not sought an audience with the President. On Friday, June 14, a GE group met with National Power’s nuclear-plant committee in the palace office of Alejandro Melchor, Marcos’s executive secretary and a National Power director.}
{The GE salesmen brought along a 200-page prospectus detailing the costs of its plants and their design. Says a former GE executive who was there: ”I felt euphoric when I left the meeting.” He flew back to the States that weekend and stopped at his boss’s office in San Jose, California, first thing Monday to tell him how well the presentation had gone. But when he arrived at his own office, the executive found a telex from GE’s Manila office: Westinghouse had won.}
{Unknown to GE, Westinghouse had the deal locked up more than a week before the meeting in Melchor’s office. In late May or early June, Marcos phoned Ramon Ravanzo, the general manager of National Power, and ordered him to give the business to Westinghouse. He followed up the phone call with a letter to Ravanzo and Melchor on June 7 giving them official authorization to negotiate a contract with Westinghouse.}
{On June 14, the same day GE presented its detailed proposal to the committee, the board of National Power went through the formality of ratifying Marcos’s order. Ravanzo was miffed that he had no part in Marcos’s decision. ”There never was any bidding,” he says. Melchor describes the selection of Westinghouse as lutong macao, Tagalog for Chinese cooking. He translates that to English as: ”The deal was cooked.”}
{At about the same time, National Power hired Ebasco Services, a subsidiary of Enserch Corp. of Dallas, to test the safety of prospective plant sites and monitor construction. Ebasco had signed a letter of intent with National Power to act as a consultant in selecting the supplier of the reactor part of the plant.}
{The company thought it also had locked up a bigger contract to do the architectural and engineering work and manage construction. Says Carl Whitehead, the group vice president in charge of Ebasco’s international operations: ”After Westinghouse came in, we were out. The damn thing happened so fast we didn’t know what had happened. It was very embarrassing. The only story we got was that the decision was made at the very highest levels of the Philippine government.”}
{Melchor set up a ”palace team” to examine financing and the technical aspects of the plant while National Power and Westinghouse negotiated a formal contract. The palace team continued to look at other proposals, thinking it could persuade Marcos to drop Westinghouse if it came up with a better deal. }
{Meanwhile the Westinghouse price was climbing. Melchor wrote a long memorandum to Marcos in September 1974 complaining that Westinghouse’s base price had jumped from $500 million to $695 million in just four months. Fermin Javier, a member of the palace team, says the group found that just about every alternative was cheaper than Westinghouse, including GE. But the team found Marcos immovable.}
{As the contract negotiations dragged into 1975, Marcos made late-night phone calls to Ravanzo, impatiently telling him to conclude the deal. Melchor, who is Aquino’s ambassador designate to the Soviet Union, says he tried to intercede with Marcos on Ravanzo’s behalf: ”I told Marcos one day in the palace that Ravanzo is a professional and his technical competence is all he * has. If he’s forced to prostitute himself, he has nothing. I was shouting at Marcos. I had never done that before.” But Marcos would not bend. He wanted a contract quickly, and Ravanzo could negotiate only with Westinghouse.}
{Ravanzo says it was virtually impossible to bargain with the Westinghouse team: ”They knew about the order we had from Marcos and that we couldn’t go elsewhere no matter what Westinghouse demanded.” When pressed, Ravanzo concedes he has no direct evidence that Westinghouse knew of the order, but he says nothing else can explain the company’s arrogance. By the time a formal contract was signed in February 1976, the deal called for a plant with just one 626-megawatt reactor because the Philippines could not get financing for a second.}
{Westinghouse was to provide the plant on a turnkey basis, overseeing all the design and construction and training National Power employees in its operation. Instead of getting a twin-reactor plant for $650 million, the Philippines was paying $722 million for a single- reactor plant with half the power output. Another $387 million for interest and escalation costs raised the total contract price to $1.1 billion.}
{Inured to the ways of the Marcos regime, at least one Filipino involved in the project simply assumed Westinghouse had bribed the President. He was Librado Ibe, then chairman of the Philippine Atomic Energy Commission and the country’s top nuclear regulator. ”Once Marcos decided to hire Westinghouse,” says Ibe, ”whatever Westinghouse wanted, Westinghouse got.”}
http://archive.fortune.com/magazines/fortune/fortune_archive/1986/09/01/67989/index.htm
A. R. T., “Change is rooted in the future not the past”, you wrote. Are you WISE enough to KNOW what ROOT means? 10 this time👎.
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Wisdom dictates that time not be confined to the limits of human comprehension. Roots hold a tree upright. Roots bind a family together. Roots grow—toward the future, not by any means toward the past. If I’m wrong in this regard, I’d willfully admit it… trouble is, I’m not.
A.R.T. Then, write what you mean. You should have said,”change is rooted towards the future. Not the past”. Next time, don’t forget to edit your post’s. Or ask an English major to do just that.
L.G. Before you DO edit your post, let me remind you that the plural of post is posts, NOT post’s. Please ask an English major to press the Enter key for you before you do.
So if “rooted in” is not yet part of the English language, then it’s my pleasure to have invented it. But I stand pat on my statement.
This is not a forum for the proofreading of grammar, so let’s not start. Thank you.
Agree, LG’s comment was out of order.
😔 to SOH.
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1. Change cannot be rooted in the future because roots do NOT grow toward the future. Toward (or towards) means “in the direction of.” If we make a substitution, we get: “Roots grow in the direction of the future.”
1.1. This is incorrect. In the same manner that roots do NOT grow toward the past, roots do NOT grow toward the future.
1.3. The correct way to express this would be: “Roots will grow IN the future.”
2. If we go back to the original sentence — that is, “Change is rooted in the future” — the verb root has several meanings. The most appropriate meaning within the context of the discussion is “establish deeply and firmly.” (Note: using Google dictionary.)
2.1. First derivation. If we make a substitution, the sentence will read, “Change is established deeply and firmly in the future.”
2.2. Now this is interesting. What does “establish” mean?
2.3. Second derivation. Google provides two meanings for “establish:”
a. “set up on a firm or permanent basis.”
b. “achieve permanent acceptance or recognition for.”
2.3.1. Does OP mean that change will achieve permanent acceptance or recognition for? One wouldn’t think so.
2.3.2. Therefore, OP means: “Change is set up on a deep, firm and permanent basis in the future.” (Note: “set up” is both present tense and future tense.)
2.4. Does the sentence make sense? It sort of makes sense, doesn’t it? A kind of weird sense.
2.5. But what is “change?”
2.6. Change is “an act or process through which something becomes different.”
2.7. Now this gets funny: “The process of becoming different is set up on a deep, firm and permanent basis in the future.” Hilarious, erroneous and contradictory.
3. Clearly, the original ideation was fallacious. “Change is rooted in the future. Not in the past.”
3.1. There is the denial about the past. Why deny? Most changes are rooted in the past. (Note the correct usage and the truth of the generalization.) But the denial is there to emphasize the mantra to move on.
3.1.1. The mantra has been ably rebutted by The Society, Mary Grace, and Chemrock.
3.2. The truth is that change is constant. It will not only happen in the future. It has happened in the past, and it is happening now.
4. Wisdom consists in knowing and, more importantly, admitting when one is wrong. It also consists in knowing what should be changed.
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If we need to philosophize on my statement, “Change is rooted in the future. Not in the past,” then so be it. This will however only complicate things unnecessarily. My original premise merely confirms the universal view that one can only change the future, and not the past. When we “move on,” we change the future, not the past. Conversely, if we “don’t move on,” that’s when we try (futilely) to change the past. See the logic? Very easy to understand, but as easy to dispute in the guise of semantics.
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OP lies.
The original premise was NOT “the universal view that one can only change the future, and not the past.”
The original premise was “Change is rooted in the future. Not in the past.”
And the claim that the past cannot be changed is open to question. Google it.
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edgar… IF you can change the past, then EUREKA! We’ve found someone who can solve all our problems! Why not go teach everyone how to do it? I’ll be first in line.
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Sorry, you give me too much credit.
There are many who have changed the past, and there are many now.
The Marcos supporters are already doing it. They are attempting to change the past by reinterpreting it.
So you are way ahead of me.
Apart from quantum physics, understand this: Because the past resides in our memories, the past changes as our memories change… or as our understanding of the past changes.
P.S. Note the deflection to ad hominem.
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On reflection, isn’t it ironic that OP is engaged in an activity he deems impossible and yet he is not aware of it?
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@ Anton
I’ll avoid going into high falutin of what is knowledge and wisdom. (It’s not my competence). Just based on simple reasoning, that’s my way.
Case #1 PMA cadet Jeff Aldrin Cuida –
He was 2 minutes late for a class. His excuse was he was released late in a preceding class. Actually he stayed back to check his score sheet. He was kicked out of the academy for dishonor because he lied. He fought all the way to Supreme Court and the SC dismissed his appeal citing breach of moral code.
Truth — we know the truth and that’s the fact of the case, he lied.
Knowledge – we measure the facts against our external and internal standards, such as the laws and moral values. That give us the sum knowledge of the incident. So he broke some codes of conduct, and he lied. Our knowledge now has judgemental implications, we say Jeff was morally wrong. And definitely wrong by the academy’s rules.
Wisdom — so how does wisdom come about. We then take this knowledge and measure it against a vast universe of our internal stock knowledge of all that matters. This is where you and I, for example, may view things differently from an old sage like Edgar.
Back to the reality of the issue, the ‘move on’ clarion call hidden behind the banner of knowledge vs wisdom.
Case #2 Ferdinand Marcos – 70,000 jailed, 34,000 tortured, 4,000 killed, US$10b stolen :
SC decision – no dishonor, go ahead with burial in hero’s cemetery.
So same here — we know the facts aka truths, we have the knowledge.
Wisdom — what are the wisdoms here? It’s all about perspectives.
For Jeff, I say penalise him, some guard duties, take into consideration his overall conduct, competence and commitment in the course. If there is no pattern of breaches, then I say MOVE ON. It’s insignificant.
In the case of Marcos – I say one must be mad, out of our minds, to measure the incidents so callously. The 9 deplorables in the SC must be motivated by something else other than justice.
Wisdom is the ability to see that something is grotesquely wrong with the SC decisions in these 2 cases.
The Marcos case cannot be told to ‘move on’. A great traversty of justice has taken place that so incensed everyone with any sense of decency
L.G. I am not a priest, a pastor, or an imam. But this I know: justice is not of this world. The gift of free will given to us humans has not been used judiciously. Ever. If you have perfect judgment, then come to me and rant about mine.
Let not the forces of the dark take us to where we ultimately wouldn’t want to be. Let’s just align our free will with His.
I can only hope that you understand my point of view.
Sorry—the reply was for chemrock.
Nobody and nothing is perfect, but that does not stop us from ranting, and that includes you and me, Anton.
Many SC decisions are far from perfect, there is nothing wrong in looking back, if a particular decision can no longer be changed, future decisions can still correct those errors in judgement.
Anton
Thank you, of course we are not perfect.
I can see you are abandoning mortal wisdom to divine justification — let’s not throw the first stone, and Forgiveness is His way.
Now why is it that those who proposes ‘Move On’ and invokes Divine wisdom always mention His Way is FORGIVENESS but always, always, choose not to mention His Way also requires REPENTANCE.
Selective dementia of His teachings is not forgivable.
We will first start with the premise that you, like me and the rest of the human race, are far from perfect and have committed countless sins through life’s course. If, after the day you die, every person you’ve known coerces your wife and children to repent for the sins you’ve committed, will that make any sense at all?
In short, your sins are your sins, not your family’s.
“your sins are your sins, not your family’s.”
unless your family is still living from your loot.
and wants to rule those you stole from – once more.
Anton
Ah the next argument, after ‘forgiveness’ is standard fare – the sins of the father is not the sins of the children.
Imee, Bongbong and Imelda were all govt officials at the time. Imee proudly pronounced In US court that yes there were tortures, but as official of a sovereign state, the US has no jurisdiction to charge her (that’s the Archimedes Trajano torture and murder case.). Bongbong was in army fatigues with General Ver in those last few days, instigating Ferdie to bomb Camp Graeme. So let’s be crystal clear, they have blood on their hands.
Regarding the stolen money, of the 69 swiss bank accounts, many were in the name of Jane Ryan aka Imelda. Bongbong was the one who handed over Ferdie’s POA to PCGG reps for Swiss banks to release US$300m+ to Cory’s admin. Imee now owns the secret trust funds of over US$10b. So don’t tell me they have not sinned.
Pro- Marcos’ arguments never prosper when faced with the truth.
But back to your hypothetical question – if my parents sinned, should I be accountable. So here’s where we are different. Indeed here’s where pro-Marcos and anti-Marcos camps are different . It’s a matter of moral values, some gave them, some don’t. So my answer to you question — I would be perfectly clear in my mind I committed no crime, but I would be always be sorry my parents did wrong to others, and I would commit my life to do whatever it takes to right those wrongs.
I’m out of this obviously one-sided forum. All those who’ve shown agreement with The Society of Honor’s article got a 1 (top marks) and those who were against it, a 10. I’m one of the latter. So all you 1’s out there, just go on posting things you all agree with among yourselves anyway. In the meantime, go ahead and just give me a 10 for this post. Thank you in advance.
The 10’s were for people who dropped off hard, opinionated comments with no interest in discussion. This is a discussion forum. Arrive to do that, and your score will reflect that. I would score you a 1 for your latest series of posts. The Anton name carries with it the stigma of some earlier posts, which were not as issues-based, but you have worked diligently to carry on a forthright dialogue, and my hat’s off to you for that success.
I would add that you see these kinds of flame-throwing comments on Facebook discussion threads, and popular newspapers. They reflect the style of troll-based commentary that unfortunately dominates many discussion threads. As editor here, I have little patience for that style of “discussion” and seek real, honest dialogue. I think people here have addressed your comments squarely, without name-calling, and that is what my editorial comments and acts try to encourage. I’m sorry that you are feeling isolated because your discussion mates are trolls. I’d encourage you to encourage them to strive for a more respectful and forthright dialogue.
A.R.T., I rate comments (mere personal opinion, when expressed as ‘absolute’ by its author, and especially when the author claims ‘infallibility’) of low read value, thus 10 or closer. That’s how your comments as written (the 2 I took effort to rate) came across to this reader. Pure dogmatic expressions, IMHO.
Blogs, unlike opposites, appear to attract similar-minded folks….my observation of SOH regular and periodic commenters, since I started reading it within the last year only. I consider myself, not a commenter of either kind, but a ‘groupie’, who occasionally crack my silence.
Anton
Don’t be a cry baby. I didn’t grade you. I just challenged you to answer simple questions. It’s a gentlemanly discourse for me.
I had intentionally walked into a lions’ den, a Marcos dieheart site. Of course it was 1 to 20+. I always simply ask for hard fact data like unemployment rates, external debts, that kind of stuff. They always take refuge in profanities because they cannot stand up to truth, not opinions.
You have views that differ with most here. That’s OK, and thank you for no profanities. Justify your views logically, convince me, that’s what I want. But of course, I can counter.
Allow me to thus downgrade my opinions from personal reasoning to personal advice.
Most Marcos loyalists have always been on the side of peacekeeping. Maybe they took it from Marcos’ “maximum tolerance” policy he laid out to the military during the EDSA revolt.
So the personal advice I have, as would the Marcos loyalists, is for all to NOT sow divisiveness by harping on the past. My “move on” call is for us to avoid all occasions of schismatic ranting.
I firmly believe that had it not been for the people who became extremely out of control and ungovernable in the years before 1972, there would not have been any martial law. Disagree if you will, but I think the declaration of martial law was totally justified at that time, considering the underlying circumstances.
I was there. The national mindset was not unlike that of a person who chose violence against tolerant dialogue, as if brute force was the only way to prove his intelligence. That’s the mindset of the road rage attacker, the perpetrator of a crime of passion, and the hot-headed aggressor.
Let’s just talk about efficiency. What works, and what doesn’t. I think that commotion never works.
And chemrock, just wondering… if I were a cry baby, what would that make of the street protesters?
I tend to break the population into three components, (1) the powerful and entitled, (2) the educated, traveled, and intellectual elite, and (3) the working stiffs, laboring poor, and destitute.
(1) The entitled pursue everything with an intent to protect their entitlement. Sure, they would agree that martial law was important. (2) the educated elite include a lot of human rights believers, so they would argue ardently for compassion and against the canceling of protective laws, and (3) the working and poor would favor anything that is immediate and seems to have promise, whether it actually does or not. It is easier for liars to reach them than truth-tellers, because the truth is that solving poverty and giving people opportunity is a long term project.
Democracy presumes the people are educated and emotionally stable. The large mass of voters in group three are emotionally and physically needful, and they are not well-read and informed. So the Philippines invariably elects a shitty government that favors the liars and entitled and not the efficiency and progress you want us to pursue. Spin that any way you wish, looking at the component parts, but that’s been the history of the PH since Aguinaldo.
If we want efficiency and progress, we’d form an enlightened dictatorship with all ministers drawn from Group 2. THAT would be like what LKY of Singapore did. It for sure is not what Marcos did or Duterte is doing, destroying the foundations of wealth.
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From the perspective of the powerful and entitled, they want to combine the other two components into one indistinguishable mass. Thus, their supporters urge the second component to “move on” and observe the quiescence of the third component — so that they can obtain the total silence of the lambs.
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👍1 Chemrock. A grader can understand your concrete, explicit explanation. No high faluting ‘wisdom’ required.
👍1 to Irineo. The Marcos Heirs are 100% genetic and socialized clones of their parents. They ate what they were fed, both figuratively and otherwise.
He said this during the presidential debates and still people voted for him so what’s with the surprise?
10
Correction. Only 16 million did! 10.
Whom are they going to replace him with, if he is impeached? And do they believe that the people who voted for him will just sit idly by?
This said schools/universities being backed/funded by oligarchs, yellow party, corrupts, drug protectors/coddlers, hypocrite priests/nuns(cbcp), etc. are using students/children as activists.
Shame on them! This is child abuse!
Please document your assertion. 10
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For additional knowledge:
Dear Fellow Filipinos,
According to Imelda Marcos, they have a deposit of 987 Billion Dollars in a bank in Brussels.
So dito ba tayo dapat mag move-on?
From the mouth of Imelda Marcos herself: do you still wonder why Filipino people are poor?, and why there are ten million 10,000,000. OFWs working abroad away from their families? why Imee Marcos can give Ph 2.4 billions to Duterte’s campaign funds and buy? 9 injustices of the Supreme Sourt to bury a most hated Ferdinand E. Marcos dictator,torturer,murderer plunderer in the pantheon of heroes! and why the Marcoses have 800 cases in the Sandiganbayan, and many countries in the world,. and is why BBMarcos want to be president: to erase their crimes , martial law atrocitiies, murder, rapes, tortures, plunder/ stealing more than. unaccountable amount of private wealth & US$10,000,000,000.00 public funds!
….Rant posted and shared by Ricardo Timario II as Silent No More’s video.
…part of the gold they produced was siphoned to the “invisible gold hoard of Ms. Imelda R. Marcos.”
“We deliver to the Central Bank,” the miners said. “If it happened (the siphoning), it happened in the Central Bank.”
Is it true that Marcos propagated the Yamashita myth to hide the fact that he looted the Central Bank, that its gold bars were melted down and recast in odd-size bars to make them look old (how does gold look old, anyway?). Marcos claimed that he “received the surrender of Gen. Yamashita” after a battle with his guerrilla outfit.
History has recorded that Yamashita surrendered to Lt. Co. Aubrey Smith Kenworthy and that there was no battle. Yamashita’s peaceful surrender had been arranged at least two weeks before the event.
http://blogwatch.tv/2011/04/facts-about-president-ferdinand-marcos/
Silent No More has been banned on FB…the tyranny of numbers has struck again…
FB admin depends on the numbers of users reporting an FB account holder or group..this trend is obvious, raissa is a frequent victim, ED Lingad too, the guy who started an anti Mocha Uson FB page, and lately, the Silent No More FB group…
And I hear the current president is threatening to kill the rightist groups who are protesting his so-called drug war and killing sprees, and his platoon of EJK implementors are all ears.
More knowledge for those who want it….to somehow try to understand where all these billions of the Marcoses came from to understand why Imelda Marcos can tell the interviewee this: “we practically everything in the Philippines:
Regime of Marcoses, cronies, kleptocracy
By: Ana Roa / @Inq_Researchers
Inquirer Research / 02:42 AM September 29, 2014
Editor’s Note: Starting Sept. 21, the 42nd anniversary of the proclamation of martial law by President Ferdinand Marcos, we have been running a series of articles to remember one of the darkest chapters in Philippine history. The articles are necessarily commemorations and more so a celebration of and a thanksgiving for the courage of the men and women who endured unspeakable pain and loss to overcome the Marcos dictatorship and regain our freedoms. These are some of their stories.
MANILA, Philippines–“We practically own everything in the Philippines—from electricity, telecommunications, airline, banking, beer and tobacco, newspaper publishing, television stations, shipping, oil and mining, hotels and beach resorts, down to coconut milling, small farms, real estate and insurance,” said Imelda Marcos, talking to the Inquirer in 1998 while she disclosed her plan to file an intervention suit against the cronies of her husband.
Imelda said the Marcos family accumulated its wealth “without dipping into government coffers.”
Former Senate President Jovito Salonga challenged Imelda’s claim, saying that the Marcoses had started raiding the government coffers barely two years into the first term of President Ferdinand Marcos in 1965, with his wife using intelligence funds to finance her foreign trips as first lady and stashing part of the money in Swiss banks.
In his book “Presidential Plunder: The Quest for the Marcos Ill-gotten Wealth,” Salonga enumerated the ways by which the Marcoses acquired and safeguarded ill-gotten wealth.
Modus operandi
He said these included the creation of monopolies in certain vital industries and placing them under the control of Marcos cronies or associates, citing the sugar industry under Roberto Benedicto and coconut industry under Eduardo Cojuangco.
Another technique was the outright takeover by Marcos relatives or cronies of large public or private enterprises with nominal amounts as consideration. Case in point: the business and assets of National Shipyard and Engineering Co. and other related government-owned or -controlled entities were taken over in 1972-1973 by Baseco, a private corporation dominated by Marcos and Alfredo “Bejo” Romualdez, a brother of Imelda.
“That’s how [Imelda] and her husband raided government funds,” said Salonga, who served as the first chair of the Presidential Commission on Good Government (PCGG).
Kleptocracy
The PCGG was created in 1986, three days after the inauguration of Corazon Aquino as President, to recover the ill-gotten wealth of Marcos, his immediate family, relatives and cronies.
Because of the massive ill-gotten wealth amassed by the Marcos family and its cronies, the Marcos regime has been called a kleptocracy (from the Greek words for thief and rule).
In hearings in 1986, then US Rep. Stephen Solarz said the Marcos couple looted the Philippine treasury of millions of dollars to buy real estate in the United States. Solarz accused Marcos of running a kleptocracy and enriching himself and his wife at the expense of his country’s citizens.
According to a 2003 ruling of the Supreme Court, assets presumed to be ill-gotten include Marcoses’ wealth in excess of their total legal income of around $304,000 from 1965 to 1986.
Almost 30 years since its creation, the PCGG has recovered P167.5 billion, or about $4 billion, less than half of the $10-billion fortune believed to have been amassed by the late dictator, who stayed in power for 21 years.
The amount recovered is the aggregate cash value, as of February, of all accounts hidden in local and foreign banks, commercial and residential properties, shares in companies here and abroad, artworks and valuable personal effects that had been surrendered to the PCGG or awarded by various courts in the Philippines, Switzerland and the United States.
SMC shares, coco levy
The biggest single recovery (40 percent of the total) was in 2012—P71.6 billion from 24-percent block of San Miguel Corp. (SMC) shares, including dividends and accrued interest, which the government claimed were acquired with coconut levy funds.
The 24 percent was part of the 47-percent block of SMC shares sequestered by the PCGG on the ground that these were illegally acquired by the dummies of Marcos using funds from a tax imposed on coconut farmers from 1973 to the 1980s.
The Supreme Court ruled in 2012 that the 24 percent (originally 27 percent but diluted and reduced because of SMC’s expansion) belonged to the government in trust for the country’s coconut farmers.
But the high court ruled that the remaining 20-percent block claimed by businessman Cojuangco had been legally acquired by the crony whom Marcos had appointed as administrator of the levy funds.
Swiss bank deposits
The Swiss bank deposits of the Marcoses constituted a fifth of the recovery, or an estimated P35 billion, which includes the P1.3 billion ($29 million) recovered in February from the WestLB Singapore accounts.
The WestLB Singapore accounts were part of the ill-gotten wealth that the late strongman kept in various Swiss bank accounts under dummy foundations. In 1997, the Swiss Federal Supreme Court ordered that these deposits be returned to the Philippine government.
In its 2003 ruling, the Philippine Supreme Court forfeited some $683 million in Marcos Swiss deposits in favor of the government. It said Marcos and his wife could not have legally acquired the assets with their legitimate income.
“In sum, the evidence offered for summary judgment of the case did not prove that the money in the Swiss banks belonged to the Marcos spouses because no legal proof exists in the record as to the ownership by the Marcoses of the funds in escrow from the Swiss Banks,” the tribunal said.
PLDT, Meralco
A total of P27.3 billion of the recovered assets came from Philippine Telecommunications Investment Corp. (PTIC) shares in Philippine Long Distance Telephone Co. (PLDT). The Supreme Court declared in January 2006 that the PTIC shares in PLDT were part of the Marcos ill-gotten wealth as these were registered in the name of Prime Holdings Inc., an alleged dummy firm of Marcos.
The amount from the sale of shares in Manila Electric Co. (Meralco), Oriental Petroleum and Minerals Corp., and Marcopper Mining Corp. accounted for P17.7 billion while other recoveries amounted to P15.9 billion. Some P50 billion worth of assets are either tied up in litigation or are up for privatization.
The latest privatization effort by the PCGG included three properties forfeited from the late Jolly Bugarin, who served as a National Bureau of Investigation director.
Real estate
In September, the auction of the properties at North Greenhills, Valle Verde III and Capitol Hills attracted 29 bidders and earned a combined P157.7 million, 38 percent higher than the combined floor price of P114.3 million.
The Mapalad property, a commercial and residential lot on Roxas Boulevard in Parañaque surrendered to the government in 1986 by the late Marcos crony Jose Y. Campos, was sold for P247.11 million in March 2013.
The government has also scored major legal victories over the past 15 months.
In March, the Supreme Court affirmed its previous forfeiture order on some $40 million on Marcos’ secret account in New York for being part of his ill-gotten wealth.
Arelma assets
In the final ruling dated March 12, the Supreme Court’s Special Second Division rejected the appeal of former first lady, now Ilocos Norte Rep. Imelda Marcos, and son Sen. Ferdinand Marcos Jr., to overturn a 2009 forfeiture order on the Arelma S.A. assets with the investment firm Merrill Lynch.
Arelma is a Panamanian corporation believed to have been one of the dummy firms used by Marcos to hide ill-gotten gains.
With the recent decision, PCGG Chair Andres Bautista said the government was optimistic that it would be able to enforce the decision in the United States and recover the funds, which have been tied up in litigation since 2000. The case is pending in the New York Court of Appeals.
Monet painting
In January, Vilma Bautista, Imelda Marcos’ New York-based personal secretary, was sentenced by the New York State Supreme Court to up to six years in prison after finding her guilty of scheming to sell a $32-million Claude Monet painting and tax fraud.
The 1899 art work, “Le Bassin aux Nymphease,” or “Japanese Footbridge over the Water-Lily Pond at Giverny,” from the French painter’s “Water Lilies” series, was among the ill-gotten assets the government was seeking to reclaim from the Marcoses. The Monet disappeared when the Marcos family fled into exile.
Last year, the Supreme Court ruled with finality that the government owned the shares of Cojuangco in United Coconut Planter’s Bank, which became the depository of the coco levy funds. The high court also ruled that the fund should be used for the benefit of the coconut farmers.
The PCGG recoveries serve as a source of funds for some social justice measures.
Land reform
Based on the Comprehensive Agrarian Reform Program (CARP) law, funds recovered by the PCGG shall be remitted to the Bureau of the Treasury to serve as additional funding for the implementation of the program.
As of 2013, the PCGG reported that it had provided some P87 billion to CARP, the centerpiece program of the first Aquino administration, since its inception.
The amount was used to finance rural electrification, construction of farm-to-market infrastructure, post-harvest facilities, school buildings and potable water supply systems. It also financed the provision of credit assistance and scholarship grants, and the conduct of extension and training services.
Proceeds from the SMC shares have been allocated for the coconut industry, while P10 billion of the money recovered from the Swiss accounts has been earmarked as the principal fund for Republic Act No. 10368 for the compensation of victims of human rights violations during the Marcos regime.
Sources: Inquirer archives, pcgg.gov.ph
Infinite 1s for all the knowledge-building posts, MGPG😉.
For the non-believers of the Deplorable Marcos Heist of the Philippines, such info is all falsehoods, delusions, myths, propaganda, or at least best ignored, if true. Their group psyche is as mysterious, to me, as the mystery of the Marcos’ family psyche.
LG, thanks…the least I can do nowadays….I hear Cynthia Patag is also limited to just posting and sharing, as she is caring for her 90+ year old mom.
That’s labor intensive. And requires tech-savvy ness.
And CP says, it’s the millennial’s turn…I can’t help but agree.
And for those like me who have health issues and already weak in the knees, (with excellent exceptions like Will Villanueva and Ed Viloria) we are limited to just being supportive, by prayers for their safety, and with posts and shares that hopefully will encourage more millennials to pick up the baton and finish the race, so freedom and democracy will not be taken away again…
NEVER AGAIN!!
What the foreign media say.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-21022457
More updated.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/may/07/10bn-dollar-question-marcos-millions-nick-davies
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Karl, thank you very much. This article shows a glimmer of the entire iceberg, not just the tip. Still, we have no idea of the vast holdings in-shore and offshore.
*****
Welcome.We are left clueless.
Karl. I keep ‘unbelieving’ the magnitude of the Marcos Heist which must have started as soon as his abuse of power did, perhaps even sooner.
1 for sharing all the links above.
Slightly off but slightly related subject.
During those deplorable Marcos times, I cared some, but not as much as I should have, as I knew no one personally who was tortured. But I knew some activists who were fellow students at Diliman, attended some DGs with them, some they led.
I can’t believe the current DSWD Sec. Judy Taguiwalo, supposedly a torture victim herself, appears cool with Duterte’s EJK orders. A. The POWER of power on principles and conscience must really be that irresistible? B. Her torture memories must have been well repressed, she can’t recall any? C. She has wonderfully recovered? Hope she does well, with Holy Spirit Guidance, if B and C.
Me, I was too young to experience martial law,I was born in 71, add to that I grew up in a military camp, a pro-martial law environment. The death of Ninoy made our Araling panlipunan teachers ask us to think and question Marcos.
Hey, karl what does your dad think about all this anti-Burial talk and Marcos at Libingan in general?
Before the sneaky burial, he was for the burial just to get it over with and done for, then the sneak attack happened and he heard the time to heal stuff which he did not agree with.
I add, in reconsideration. If A, more Holy Spirit guidance is imperative, for positive transformation.
*******
MOVING ON
I find the mantra to “move on” fascinating.
It is meant to be taken as wisdom: accept the past for what it is, you have a life to live and you must move on to newer things.
Certainly, it is sage advice in certain circumstances, as when there has been a death in the family.
It is not sage advice in circumstances where historical wrongs have been committed. In such cases, the advice becomes, in effect, a prescription to forget, a prescription for impunity.
The power of the mantra rests on the fact that it has been used as an effective therapeutic device to heal psychological wounds.
The subtlety of the mantra lies in its misdirection and its lack of direction.
The misdirection consists in focusing the mind away from an issue. This is quite obvious. What is not made obvious is that certain issues should not be forgotten.
The lack of direction consists in the mantra’s open-endedness. It has no object. It does not state where or what one should move on to.
Thus, as used by Duterte, the Marcos family, and their supporters the mantra becomes propaganda. It is meant to mislead and it offers no solution.
Instead of empowering you, it emasculates you. It is a mantra of victimization. It is futile for you, it says, to change the past. And the subtext is: it is equally futile for you to change the future.
Where historical wrongs have been committed, one should not move on… especially when there has been no rectification.
*****
edgar,
Were you referring to my “move on”, or just Anton R. Tajanlangit ‘s ?
My moving on isn’t therapeutic, it’s tactical… hence the CARVER matrix.
My moving on isn’t about forgiveness, but accepting defeat… then moving on.
My moving on does not assume some higher power, both easily invoked then suddenly mysterious when convenient… mine only cares about results.
I concede the lack of direction on my part, since I don’t really care about the Marcoses, my concerns are wider, ie. education, environment and orphanages (this one’s kinda specific since I saw it first hand, anyone ‘s free to add in their priority as well), so
I weigh the anti-Burial talk with the whole notion of ,
How will your anti-Burial mantra help push education, preserve the environment and solve poor children?
Hence, my question to chempo about the end game of this anti-Burial talk (remember I ‘m a fan of logical ends 😉 ) ,
Marcos is already buried. This is akin to the concept of Double Jeopardy over here (not sure if it exists there too, or if people are just expected to hash and re-hash the same issues over and over without end, like musical chairs).
Now legally speaking ( I’m no legal scholar, so maybe caliphman can chime in here 😉 ) , burials tend to be permanent, courts IMHO will not be open to yet another repeat— otherwise, Marcos’ body will simply go back and forth, thus making a joke of the system.
If to exhume is the goal, then what is the avenue for this goal? And if it isn’t the goal (given its unlikely outcome), why keep on talking about how wrong the burial was? Move on.
So I agree with chempo the end goal isn’t to exhume per se, but to stop the son, daughters and mother (and progenies) , if that’s the end goal, and to exhume would be counter productive at this point, then…
MOVE ON! find other avenues of approach.
(maybe you or NHerrera can set-up a https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CARVER_matrix , and plug in certain actions then number them accordingly, and weigh what the best courses of actions are according to the CARVER matrix … make sure to account for education, the environment and orphans)
@LCX, I can get to where you are going with this if I set aside any sense of commitment to democratic or “Christian” values like laws, ethics, fairness, kindness and sacrifice, and if I set aside my corporate probability disciplines that are inclined to do a risk assessment of allowing such a precedent. What does it do to values, across the land, to allow a scurrilous thief to be buried with heroes. The box is just a box, yes, so it can be hauled up out of the tomb easily. I’d propose dumping it into an active volcano, as a sacrifice to the spirits, with appropriate ‘hail marys” from the loyal Marcos choir, and move on that way.
LCpl_X,
I delineated two scenarios: move on as therapy and move on as propaganda.
You have introduced a third scenario: move on as a tactical maneuver.
On reflection, the Marcosian forces are using the mantra as a tactical maneuver.
The similarity is that the tactic is being used to achieve certain objectives. (This is true for all scenarios.) The difference, if there is one, is in the particulars of the situation, the perspective, and the desirability of the end goal(s).
From your perspective, you use the tactic to achieve a military objective. Presumably, this is good for the battle (and war) and the nation.
From the Marcosian perspective, they are using the tactic to achieve their dynastic ambition. From their perspective, this is good for the dynasty.
But from the perspective of their critics, it is not good for the nation.
Specifically, in the Marcos situation, there are historical factors that make the Marcosian critics right.
***
As to the end goal, there are short and long range goals.
Short-range goals might be:
o To exhume
o To reverse the decisions of Duterte and the Supreme Court
o To wrest a Marcos apology
o To protect court decisions — past, ongoing and future — to recompense victims
Long range goals might be:
o To block any ambition for the Marcoses to return to the palace
o To be able to retrieve a major portion of the stolen wealth
o To check Duterte’s power (and perhaps cause his downfall)
o To disallow the re-emergence of one-man rule
o To lessen the culture of impunity
These goals make the discussion on the wrongness of the in-your-face reburial worthwhile.
Given the other end goals, I do not agree that exhumation will be counter-productive.
Now use CARVER analysis to determine which goal is most achievable.
*****
This is a generic comment.
Please see the diagram below before your read the rest of this post.
There are four elements:
1. The criteria which in the case of LCpl_X is the use of CARVER = Criticality, Accessibility, Recuperability, Vulnerability, Effect and Recognizability. Generally, the set of criteria is one believed to be the best for the situation. I call this set WCMCI (short for “whatschamacallit”).
2. A list of Options not necessarily exhaustive but ones considered critical to the situation being analyzed.
3. The numbers that go into the box-grid.
4. More refined is assigning weights to the WCMCI criteria.
Thus, depending on WCMCI, even when one aggress with the options to consider, there can be different results.
Wait, there is a Fifth Item. One does not analyze in a vacuum in a conflict situation. One has to consider the reactions of the other groups likely to be affected — a Game Theoretic analysis may be needed.
Joe, edgar, NHerrara, ip, et al.
NH, yeah, there’s a bigger game at play here, but the CARVER matrix is simply at a tactical level, basically to set priorities when resources are scarce or things are busy and you can’t do everything you want to do—— it works in singles bar also 😉 .
It can be applied strategically but IMHO best not to include the “Fifth Item”, ie. KISS.
Here are edgar’s end goals:
*****
Short-range goals might be:
o To exhume
o To reverse the decisions of Duterte and the Supreme Court
o To wrest a Marcos apology
o To protect court decisions — past, ongoing and future — to recompense victims
Long range goals might be:
o To block any ambition for the Marcoses to return to the palace
o To be able to retrieve a major portion of the stolen wealth
o To check Duterte’s power (and perhaps cause his downfall)
o To disallow the re-emergence of one-man rule
o To lessen the culture of impunity
*****
I would love to hear more about this path to exhume and reverse decisions, what would the arguments be for this, will they be so compelling as to warrant the reversal of the courts decisions and exhume Marcos?
The last two in the short-range goals seem more realistic, to wrest and recompense victims (ip posted a comment below but seemed to have disappeared about why there hasn’t been any sort of cases for reparations for victims of Martial Law).
Comparatively, it wasn’t until 1988 under the Civil Liberties Act signed by Pres. Reagan in which Japanese rounded up to internment camps in WWII were given a formal apology and compensated $20K to each victim (given that most of these Japanese-Americans left areas from Seattle to L.A. that eventually saw home prices go off the charts, that $20K is symbolic at best)
That particular reparation was easy to prosecute since the fault fell squarely on the Federal gov’t and internees were well documented.
The reparation case to the Martial Law era is IMHO more akin to the Slavery Reparation debate,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reparations_for_slavery
ie., it’s either simply too late, or there’s just a large lack of evidence to warrant a case.
Nonetheless it would be a great Class Action type lawsuit if pursued.
So if we use the CARVER matrix,
o To exhume
o To reverse the decisions of Duterte and the Supreme Court
Would score lower than,
o To wrest a Marcos apology
o To protect court decisions — past, ongoing and future — to recompense victims
So, it’s probably better to focus on this, the reparations lawsuit. But that too is highly unlikely given the lack of “smoking gun” type evidence that points to one person. Though it’ll be an easier climb than to exhume Marcos, IMHO.
…
Now the long-range goals, same as the wrest Marcos apology goal, I ‘ll lump all together as a failure in story-telling. Like I suggested to Joe in the other article, re “Designated Survivor” , the Marcos folks have been winning over both the public and politicians as well as gov’t employees.
Their premise is really simple and I’d argue is the stuff that makes palatable, easy to digest, stories, there’s a hero and villains (ie. communist, chaos, etc.) and Marcos was the hero; the anti-Marcos folks set Marcos as the villain, yet if he was so evil why was he allowed to return? if they plundered so much, why are there basically no cases filed in court to pursue their stolen wealth— why wasn’t this prioritized? Was it because the Marcoses were essentially “forgiven” by Cory?
IMHO, the anti-Marcos narrative has a lot more holes than the pro-Marcos one. Also if the anti-Marcos crowd set themselves as the heroes, they can’t simply just talk about it, there was to be on-the-ground results.
So maybe for the long game anti-Marcos goals, you guys should be telling better stories, Ireneo posted a play/musical about Imelda Marcos, why do plays like that only come from outside the Philippines; there’s millionaires there that will bank roll stories, ie. Heneral Luna , so for the long-game, tell a better story that’ll be easy to digest both for educated and ignorant Filipinos. Go full out multi-media.
*******
LCpl_X,
The state of play on the first two short-range goals are:
1. A motion for reconsideration of the Supreme Court ruling has been lodged
2. The Supreme Court has required comment submissions from the Marcoses and other respondents
3. There have been nationwide demos
IMHO, all the short-range goals are hard to achieve. Possibly the hardest is to wrest an apology because this is a central linchpin.
Imee has used emotive language to win hearts — essentially, sorry but not sorry — but she cannot give an apology and back up the words with action.
***
Some of the CARVER criteria can be applied to narrow down the most achievable goals. But, really, the matrix cannot be applied because there is no one to apply it.
On one side, we have the Marcos dynasty. This is a formidable entity with well-defined objectives, well-funded, and with continuous existence.
On the other side, one has a loose coalition of parties with disparate objectives, no common source of funds, and with no continuous existence.
So: organized, continuous entity on one hand and disorganized, discontinuous parties on the other.
It is almost a matter of no contest.
***
You are right in that the struggle is at more than one level. There are the levels of public opinion, of court cases, of government institutions (e.g., the PCGG), and the story-telling, the narratives of history.
It is NOT true that the anti-Marcos narrative has more holes; the opposite is true. Granted, the Marcos dictatorship was not well-documented and the lessons were not taught in school because they were not in the textbooks. Or rather what was in textbooks was Marcosian propaganda. (You see how comprehensive the Marcos juggernaut is.) I do not know if this is being corrected.
But, lately, the narrative has become solid, it just has not gained sufficient traction because some people do not read or do not want to be properly informed. I would refer you to Mary Grace’s posts here in this thread, the various links supplied by Andrew and Karl, and the many books about the dictatorship most notably Raissa Robles “Marcos Martial Law: Never Again.”
The anti-Marcos demonstrations (and the pro-Marcos ones) demonstrate the need to keep talking so that the true narrative and the correct knowledge rise to the top.
*****
yep, that’s what I usually do, whenever time permits…I rake muck…and copy paste the whole thing (sorry, The Society), for the benefit of those who are new here, just visiting, who still don’t know…and who wants to know but slow internet limits clicking to links.. I do it on FB, too.
I care, so I share.
(You see how comprehensive the Marcos juggernaut is.)
It’s one family against other powerful families in the Philippines, so you mean to say that no other families in the Philippines are as ruthless and able to play long games?
@LCpl_x, risking to sound like a conspiracy nut, I guess it is probably because that roots basically run deep. This is politics hence political capital is very much important. So probably lots of concessions here and there because, hey, if you don’t play the game, you’ll get penalized in ways you can probably imagine. But if you do play it? Well, you’ll probably be rewarded anyways, and quite handsomely if I may add.
So rather than fight tooth and nail for the truth, lots of things were probably left half-baked and they then just settled for the Truth™. Though there were indeed holes, they probably chose to fill them selectively as mud would probably splatter everywhere and hit many people if they try to fill all of them.
And if it isn’t obvious already, as of the moment, this half-assed move is now biting them in the ass and it will probably not stop anytime soon unless they really go all out, regardless of whoever are involved. Because if they don’t? Well, to be frank, it’ll probably be a losing battle. It is probably impossible to take down solely just the Marcoses. Other people will also surely go down before that happens. And sadly, none seems to want that to happen.
“… you mean to say that no other families in the Philippines are as ruthless and able to play long games?” – LCpl_X
I glimpsed a post a few days ago which noticed the Aquino clan being quiet amidst the protest actions and expressed gratitude in their doing so. Let the millennials and other groups take over the fight.
You might take into consideration the conclusion of our tunnel-visioned chief executive who dismissed that Martial law and the ensuing years of dictatorship as mainly a long protracted war between the Aquinos and the Marcoses which is laughably so far from the truth. It could be because out of the thousands of famous political and apolitical figures who were imprisoned, only Ninoy Aquino remained in jail (in isolation) for quite sometime. He fought and never wavered until his death, his widow and son continued his fight together with other freedom loving Filipinos. Decades of power, hundreds of cronies still in power even after they were banished in Hawaii, and billions of funds still in their control, were able to hold on to such power and manipulated the democratic institutions and justice system, these were all explained by sir edgar and chemrock.
In short, the Mafia Head might have been eliminated but his minions and billions are very much around to this day.
Democracy is such a complicated system, far different from France when they subjected their corrupt monarchies to the guillotine justice, the Koreans with their speedy justice system, who jailed their executives (those who were not able to escape to other countries) or the Japanese way of hara kiri or resignation from government posts when their crimes (inadvertent or not) were exposed.
With all its complications and limitations, democracy is still our chosen form of governance, warts and all. Genuine democracy, that is.
We just need to have our mindset changed, to be genuinely patriotic, to be informed and knowledgeable and to pray for wisdom to follow a righteous leader or be mindless lemmings.
The only way to explain the greed of Imelda is it’s a disease. She made it clear long time ago that they practically owned the whole of Philippines. Now she is back to reclaim everything from the cronies that were holding companies on their behalf but have refused to return control to them.
With 9 SC justices on their side, and another few more coming on board soon with Duterte’s blessings, all she need to do is push her claims to the SC.
Let me give you real life view of how the legal games are played in Philippines. Nobody gives a damn to the law. You wanna sue me? Bring it on. Some of the things I know first hand. Company X bought office space with lots of legal issues (owner of developer died half way through project, double sales to Y, who loan money to X). Finally Y sued X on the loan and won. X refuse to pay. Y gets sheriff to takeover assets. But X arrange fictitious back-dated agreement with W to sell and lease back assets. So sheriff enter office but can’t even take away one office chair. Over the years Y tried with sheriff trick, but X bought out city court office so he knows of sheriff visit. X makes disappearance act, keeps office lock, sheriff cannot execute summon. Few times Y obtained garnishing orderorder but X is kept informed and quickly transferred all bank balances to another new acct. This went on for the last 20 years. This is only a microscopic illustration of what’s happening throughout the country.
The law is beautiful. But to seek redress is an entirely different thing altogether.
Is this knowledge explosive enough?
In an interview with Karen Davila, BATO said he relieved Supt Marcos (the guy who led the jail raid that killed mayor Espinosa) when he had info Marcos received payola from Kerwin. But he, Bato was instructed by his ‘higher up’ to reinstated Marcos .
http://news.abs-cbn.com/news/11/29/16/bato-admits-higher-official-sought-marcos-reinstatement
*******
The hierarchy is:
PNP – Chief Director General Ronald “Bato” dela Rosa
DILG – Ismael D. Sueno
President – Rodrigo Roa Duterte
Dela Rosa has only two higher ups. Oh, wait, he is married. So possibly three.
No need to spell it out but what we have here is — EJK from the top.
*****
PRES > DILG HEAD > PNP CHIEF.
Question is will the PNP CHIEF obey such an order from the DILG HEAD especially if followed by the statement “the buck stops here.” And the corollary and probably more important question — did DILG HEAD not consult the PRES?
I am rather dense or slow on the uptake on this, so I am asking the question.
*******
Yes, so many questions.
If the answer to your question is:
o YES. The follow-up is: Who was responsible for the initiation of the reinstatement?
o NO. The follow-up is: Why would the DILG secretary initiate the reinstatement on his own?
The mystery question is: Why did Bato make the revelation?
*****
“The mystery question is: Why did Bato make the revelation? …”
EEG at work, edgar? 🙂
*******
Did he have sinister (read: good from my perspective) motives? Unconsciously, he may have.
But I think Bato was just covering his derriere. 😉
*****
Questions abound indeed and I agree the words used by Bato — that he received a call from a “higher official,” ordering the reinstatement of Superintendent Marvin Marcos — is rich in significance or implication.
*******
De Lima provides an answer: it was the Little President.
http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/849692/de-lima-bong-go-called-bato-to-reinstate-supt-marcos
*****
But now I understand that Bong Go denied this. Bato should anticipate that he will be questioned about this when Lacson’s Senate Committee meets on December 5 — Monday.
Denials ad infinitum…..has there been a Senate or Congressional investigation where any person charged of any wrongdoing was established to be guilty?
******
Duterte has admitted he was the one who called Bato.
http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/850176/duterte-i-was-the-one-who-asked-for-cidg-8-chiefs-reinstatement
Now, work backward:
1. Albuera Mayor Rolando Espinosa Sr was killed while in detention.
2. Because he was in detention, his killing was premeditated.
3. He was killed by a CIDG team headed by Supt. Marvin Marcos.
4. Previously, Bato had sacked Marcos for being a drug protector.
5. Marcos was reinstated by Bato after a phone call from a “higher up.”
6. Duterte had admitted he was that higher up.
7. Duterte’s excuse for the reinstatement was that he was doing an “investigative job” on Marcos.
Now, connect the dots:
1. Espinosa Sr.’s killing was an execution.
2. The execution was done by Supt. Marcos’ CIDG team.
3. The CIDG team, previously sacked, was reinstated by no other than Duterte himself.
4. Marcos and his team are directly responsible for the execution. Whether Marcos was being investigated or not has no bearing on his culpability.
4. Therefore, the question is: Who has the ultimate responsibility for the execution, which was an extra-judicial killing? Who was the mastermind?
Clearly, there has been a violation of the Constitution by men sworn to defend it.
If Duterte was bold enough to admit his place in the chain of events within the chain of command, who is bold enough to defend the Constitution?
*****
To add some more flavor to this, here is Andrew’s post at Raissa:
andrewlim8 says
December 2, 2016 at 10:49 am
For those who have the capability and are interested in following up on the Bato-Bong Go-Marvin Marcos reinstatement issue:
There are residents in Davao City with the surnames Tesoro-Marcos. Tesoro is the middle name of Bong Go, grandson of August Tesoro one of the siblings that founded that old printing press in Davao.
So there could be relations through marriage with the families of Bong Tesoro Go with the Marvin Marcoses.
This needs further investigation, though.
Reply
andrewlim8 says
December 2, 2016 at 10:59 am
August Tesoro, now deceased, was a good friend of Pres. Duterte. That is how Bong Go got to his position.
(With the indulgence of Andrew who I believe won’t mind my posting his comments from Raissa here.)
CONNECTING SOME OTHER DOTS HERE
This report from Rappler — on the hot news item of the phone conversation between Duterte and Trump — features a photo of Go from the latter’s facebook with Go on the foreground with Duterte holding the phone in conversation with someone (Trump, I infer from Rappler’s report).
http://www.rappler.com/nation/154379-duterte-invites-trump-visit-philippines-2017
Joe,
Block the zombies please. This is supposed to be an oasis
Ah, well, it is, but they illustrate what is out there, the kinds of arguments that others buy. So it is instructive. There aren’t that many because most know that they will look stupid here, but a few do not, and so I let them be stupid. I’d recommend you develop the discipline to read and have no emotional reaction at all. They aren’t worth one. Score them a 10 and smile . . .
Aha, makes sense, Joe. As someone said, keep your friends close but remember to keep your enemies closer!
I usually just delete spam. Not even worth a 10
Great. Keep up the good work.
“Block the zombies please. This is supposed to be an oasis.”
An echo chamber will be more disastrous to your mind than an oasis wherein every body agrees. Trust me.
SocMed has more than enough of that. I’d reconsider if they weren’t already on the bingo card
I concur. Truth does not fear darkness. But by all means block comments that are scurrilous. I actually like to see well thought out intelligent opposing views which unfortunately are very rare. That’s why I never bother checking our Mocha Uson’s site.
An anti-echo chamber is refreshing once in a while,but when you hear comments like kids brain washed (rallies),collateral damage (ejk), previous admin did nothing againt drugs,oligarchs, move on,etc. ,then I would prefer an echo-chamber
If you a block a contradicting view and you do not see it anymore, does it still continue to propagate? I’d like to ask the tree that fell in the woods but not one was around to hear. haha
But in all seriousness, it’ll probably depend on how you define the zombies. Because how does one determine that one is a zombie without talking to them first? Sure they may show tendencies initially, but how would you know if they had completely turned undead yet or not? Who knows if you’d actually condemned a viable person to ignorance. And if anything, “zombieism” actually has some roots and it is probably best to understand why it exists.
And also in most cases, an attempt to pacify by conceding them the argument then letting them trip up by themselves usually works. And personally, I think, the best way to convince people of something is to convince them that they convinced themselves. A bit incoherent but you probably catch my drift, yes?
Zombies just keep on moving forward.I usually listen to all, but if they do not want to listen,and keep on walking with arms raised,then it is time to run.
A wiseman told me you can not convert the converted.I get your drift, even if it is just drift wood that fell in the woods.
Uno!
Whilst we are on the subject of knowledge, may I humbly request we refrain from using Marcosians to refer to the Marcos family. This is sacrilegious.
The Marcosians were a derivative sect from the Valentinians. They were popular gnostic sects in early Christianity. In fact, Valentinians are the closest one can get to Jesus, just one generation away. Both sects’ centred on seeking the fallen Sophia, which in Greek means Knowledge, or Truth.
To associate the Marcos family to Truth is the epitome of blasphemy. Call them whatever you wish, but never Marcosians. House of Thieves, Liars, Murderers, whatever, I don’t really care.
*******
Eh, it doesn’t bother me. As long as the reference is clear.
*****
Neronian, maybe, chempo?
Sorry to dump this here but I’m really pissed off and need defuse. Anyway, I’m a knowledge pusher so it’s still within topic.
Have you ever seen justice move so speedily in Philippines —
Nov 29 Joshua Arroyo, a grandson of GMA, was shot in the arm in a drug buy -bust operation. 2 sachets of shabu were found on him.
Nov 30 Joshua Arroyo was released. A couple of other guys arrested with him remains in jail. Police said they were instructed to release him.
Drug war, my foot.
Every evil act is social by nature. What goes around comes around. We had to “laglag pera” on a very minor traffic issue inside Clark Eco zone. I hope the incident will be attenuated justly, ie the traffic cop has many children to feed.
*******
Chemrock, thanks.
This incident encapsulates what is wrong in the country. There are so many perspectives one can take, such as:
1. The headlong pursuit of inanities in life
2. The flouting of the law
3. The lack of discipline
4. Favoritism (nepotism)
5. The improper use of power
6. The incestuous power connections
7. Injustice (or selective justice)
8 Bribery (graft)
9. Corruption
10. Patronage
11. Impunity
12. Generally the lack of principled behavior
13. Not least, the helpless feeling of outrage for all of the above
A baker’s dozen. It’s almost all there… except for the plunder and the lewd leers.
*****
And the killings
Joe, ip posted a comment on the lack of lawsuits field for Martial Law reparations, what happened?
I’ve not followed that and am inclined to leave the research for others.
LOL! sorry, I just re-read that , I didn’t mean what happened to the Marcos lawsuits, I meant what happened to ip’s comment… which I now see below (does ip have editing powers?)
Lance,
http://laws.chanrobles.com/republicacts/104_republicacts.php?id=10023
A law for reparations.
REPUBLIC ACT NO. 10368
AN ACT PROVIDING FOR REPARATION AND RECOGNITION OF VICTIMS OF HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATIONS DURING THE MARCOS REGIME, DOCUMENTATION OF SAID VIOLATIONS, APPROPRIATING FUNDS THEREFOR AND FOR OTHER PURPOSES
Section 17. Conclusive Presumption That One is an HRVV Under This Act. The claimants in the class suit and direct action plaintiffs in the Human Rights Litigation Against the Estate of Ferdinand E. Marcos (MDL No. 840, CA No. 88-0390) in the US Federal District Court of Honolulu, Hawaii wherein a favorable judgment has been rendered, shall be extended the conclusive presumption that they are HRVVs: Provided, That the HRVVs recognized by the Bantayog Ng Mga Bayani Foundation shall also be accorded the same conclusive presumption: Provided, further, That nothing herein shall be construed to deprive the Board of its original jurisdiction and its inherent power to determine the extent of the human rights violations and the corresponding reparation and/or recognition that may be granted.
But if I remember right, many cases for these are usually civil lawsuits, right? Criminal lawsuits were seldom pursued, if not never, because rather than needing to prove by a “preponderance of the evidence”, it needed it to be proven “beyond a reasonable doubt”. That is why you’ll hear many staunch supporters say that Marcos was never “convicted” of the accusations against him.
Also, does anyone know of any other people prosecuted and convicted aside from the Marcoses? Given the scale of the abuses back then, I’m sure there were many other people that had dipped their fingers on the cake. But heck, many of them seem to be doing better than ever as of present.
And Mr. Joe, uhm… So should I repost my reply from before? I’ve pretty much finalized it already. haha
As you wish. Post away. 🙂
Thanks, karl (and ip)! I see ip’s point about civil vs. criminal matters, but once reparation is set by the government, there is admittance of guilt (and/or wrong-doing) on the part of the persons/entity doing the paying, this is the punitive portion.
Question: So who’s being punished? or is the Philippine gov’t simply paying without penance or any sort of lesson learned? It’s very weird, maybe caliphman can help with the legalese here, but there’s essentially no one in trouble. What gives?
Lance
I know of only 2 cases that the Marcoses lost:
1. Archimedes Trajano – he was a school kid who stood up to ask Imee why her father appoint her to head a youth organization. He was rimmed hauled away by Imee’s body guards, his body found days later battered and broken. Imee lost the case in US courts and ordered to pay damages $4.2 m. Trajano’s mother sued in Hawaii, that’s why Imee had to flee Hawaii and lived for a while in Singapore.
2. Silme Domingo — he was a unionist in Seattle and also anti-marcos activist. He was killed together with another Filipino in Seattle. Investigations revealed Marcos involvement. Marcos was ordered to pay $15m.
I do not know if there was repatriation for Domingo, but for Trajano, it’s a sad case. To this day they could not obtain repatriation in Phils due to legal technicalities, corrupt judiciary and obstruction by the house of thieves. Makes one’s blood boil.
Swiss banks returned some US$350 m+ which sits in escroll in a Treasury Dept bank acct. way back 1990s. These funds were intended for distribution to martial law victims. I’m not sure why repatriation was delayed, but pretty sure there were legal roadblocks by the house of thieves. At some point these funds were placed under the armbit of Agrarian Reform Act – I don’t know when. It had ballooned to $8ⁿm + with interest when Gloria Arroyo dipped her hands into the kitty and transferred about $650m to what is known as the Fertiliser scam. Status — nobody is giving it a damn.
The PCGG set up by Cory to recover Marcos stolen loot did some wok and filed many lawsuits. — 800+. Everyone of them rigorously blocked b Bongbong, and he said he does not know about stolen money and whtvis there to apologise for. PCGG lost many cases due to incompetence (their job is investigative, they are not prosecutors), betrayals (some PCGG lawyers intentionally loose cases) and corrupt judiciary
How can a country move on? Wondered why nobody just go out and get a sniper gun and put an end to the story.
My mind is in a constant motion – hopefully not rotating (crazy-like)…
Before, I used to bank with PNB, thinking that the national depository bank will not go bankrupt, so I need not worry about the maximum limit set by PDIC.
Later, I got confused, why has Allied Bank (controlled by Marcos crony Lucio Tan, PAL, etc…) able to control PNB which is the designated trustee bank for all the looted funds still in escrow?… PNB is now synonymous with Lucio Tan? What’s the story behind this, I wonder? Is there muck that needs to be raked?
I now bank with Land Bank of the Philippines.
chemp (& Mary) thanks!
Usually it’s the regime that takes over after a dictator or a former power, that cleans house and ensures no loose ends—- was Cory just a very forgiving soul?
“was Cory just a very forgiving soul?” – LCpl_X
Cory, and PNOY, just like all the other Presidents after Marcos did not have a legislative and/or judicial power (just like in all the other democratic countries.) They had to let the courts and the rest of the justice system take its own course. They can only propose legislative agenda (like the wonderful impeachment of a midnight appointee, the former SC CJ, but they should not, could not interfere in the judicial process. Marcos has appropriated for himself all the three powers – executive, legislative (thru thousands of presidential decrees) and forced and/or bought for himself a rubber stamp congress and judiciary. I didn’t recall Cory ever giving presidential pardon to any of the Marcoses or even hinted at any plans of doing so, unlike PDU30 who oftentimes do that in his various pronouncements wherein he categorically stated that he will give presidential pardon to policemen and civilians who will be charged with EJKs.
It’s a wonder why they (the UN and his local detractors) still credited PNOY with the long period of GMA’s detention in the Presidential Suite in the Veterans Hospital, taken care of by doctors and nurses 24/7 and received visitors there which included the Marcoses, bishops etc, etc…not realizing that it is the snail paced justice system brought about by her own lawyers who filed manifestations after manifestations that prevented the court hearings to proceed for so many years… The Ombudsman is quite upset when after diligent studies and boxes of evidences, the end result is a demurer of evidence.
Damned if you do, damned if you don’t?
@ Mary Grace & LC
Somewhere in my now-dimmed memory I recall FM’s favorite tactic on the questioning of his executive actions, he (FM) first questions the inquirer’s own legitimacy/authority. In this age of Google I searched under “legitimacy of agency” and found this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legitimate_expectation
Marcos (and anyone for that matter) invoked this doctrine as shield against all comers who question the legitimacy of his executive actions; if the outsider cannot produce this as “sword” for its own legitimacy, then I’m not talking to him and so he get out of my face because he has no business questioning me, and I got the guns/goons to take the outsider out! Imee (the Trajano case in Hawaii, so I read, employed the doctrine and fled to PH where her kingdom lay.
So yes, the labyrinth that is the PH judicial system is alive and well. Wanted: Theseus and Ariadne of the Philippines to mark the path of Justice and slay the Minotaur.
And I could be all wet to make this analogy. 😦
And to add to the Trajano Case:
{However, before a Hawaii court over two decades ago, Imee Marcos and her lawyers gave the following arguments to counter a civil lawsuit accusing her of “wrongful death”.
Imee Marcos argued that –
– Yes, Trajano was tortured by her military bodyguards.
– Yes, Imee Marcos knew all about the torture.
– But the case against Imee Marcos should not proceed before the Hawaii Court because this court only has jurisdiction for torture acts that happen in the US.}
And as for why there was no repatriation:
{The Trajano family tried collecting from Imee Marcos by filing a civil case with the Pasig Regional Trial Court since Imee Marcos, by then, was said to be living in the Alexandra condominium in Pasig.
The RTC judge actually issued the summons for Imee to appear. When Imee snubbed the summons, the judge declared her in default.
But Imee Marcos ran to the Supreme Court. In 2006, the SC ruled that the service of summons on her was invalid.}
But goddamn it, the country’s justice system suck big time. Probably one of the main roots of all the country’s problem. How does one fix a problem like that anyways?
http://sc.judiciary.gov.ph/jurisprudence/2006/august2006/G.R.%20No.%20130974.htm
http://news.abs-cbn.com/opinions/11/16/16/opinion-imee-marcos-told-us-court-yes-archimedes-trajano-was-tortured-and-killed-but-its-none-of-your-business
“the country’s justice system suck big time. Probably one of the main roots of all the country’s problem.” YES!!! Even Rizal noted that more than a hundred years ago.
“How does one fix a problem like that anyways?” It would take a concerted effort. But the many lawyers of the country are usually caught in tunnel vision I think, because it is the only system they know and they are raised in it. Out of the box thinkers and reformers, where are they?
The approval of workarounds like EJKs by many has to do with frustration over a slow and very unfair justice system. Rizal already praised the fast and effective justice systems of British colonies over the messed-up Spanish colonial justice system. The most successful countries in Asia have either the British (Singapore), the Dutch (Indonesia) or a justice system modelled after that of Germany (Japan and Korea) – the people there know that due process is NOT due palusot like in the Philippines, and understand based on reality what rule of law really means.
” – But the case against Imee Marcos should not proceed before the Hawaii Court because this court only has jurisdiction for torture acts that happen in the US. “
That is a weird case , heard in an unexpected court… usually you’d see a case like that set in a immigration court, when someone’s seeking asylum here, and the bar’s set so low as to not need so much evidence.
The best court outside of Philippines to have handled something like this , would’ve been https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Court_of_Justice (though I think single persons type cases are not heard, i could be wrong)
If Imee , the daughter, was target of the suit, couldn’t an argument that her dad was head executive, why did they stop at Imee?
Let me check these cases out further (these are very interesting arguments indeed!).
As for Silme Domingo, i’d assume his American citizenship would ‘ve carried tremendous weight.
(I just have time to post one , will be back, but thanks to all those who commented! 😉 )
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Doh! How could I forget?
*****
They are too horrid to contemplate, so you get a freebie, as I assume you don’t dwell on them to retain sanity. If I think too much about them I get very, very angry, and have to take a break.
instant memory block, must be in your Ovaltine.
*******
Heh heh.
So you think I should shift to Budweiser?
*****
It made Bud wiser,right?
*******
🙂
*****
Karl
You know that in Singapore, vandalists and gang crimes are subject to canning. After the last stroke has been applied to the naked butts, the prisoners receive medical attention and a can of Budweiser each.
It is said they are all butt- wiser after their spell in prison.
*******
Chemrock,
🙂
I know it, I just know it. I should not have said Budweiser. I should have said Heineken. But it is Budweiser that I happen to have in the fridge.
*****
Chem,
haha! 😉😜
Edgar,
Don’t abandon your ovaltine, here it is already extinct. Milo beat it.
Beer is good for our health and there are 10 reasons to prove it.
Maybe I should ditch my Milo and opt for Apple or Lemon flavored SM beer. Maybe I would be wiser…never mind the butt and belly gaining inches.
*******
Mary, thanks. I read that beer improves memory… but I forgot where I read it. 🙂 Henceforth, I shall stock Budweiser.
*****
For our knowledge reservoir:
Beer has a greater protein and vitamin B content than wine, while its antioxidant content is equivalent to that of wine. Hops, a major component for brewing beer, are rich sources of flavonoids, which are potent antioxidants.
You should also know that beer is a very good source of certain minerals that play essential roles in various metabolic processes. If taken in moderate quantities, it can definitely boost your health in a number of ways.
Here Are 10 Good Reasons Why You Should Drink a Beer:
1. Beer will keep your kidneys healthy! A recent study has discovered that beer is really good for your kidneys. In fact, each bottle of beer you drink reduces the risk of developing kidney stones by 40%.
2. Beer can lower your bad cholesterol as well! Here’s what you need to know – the fiber found in beer can also help reduce your levels of LDL cholesterol, i.e. the “bad” type of cholesterol.
3. Beer can also increase your vitamin B levels! According to the experts, this drink contains several B vitamins (B1, B2, B6 and B12). They also say that beer drinkers had 30 percent higher levels of vitamin B6 than their non-drinking counterparts, and levels that were twice as high as those of wine drinkers. Beer is also a generous source of vitamin B12.
4. Beer for stronger bones! Yes, a study has revealed that the elevated levels of silicon in beer can contribute to higher bone density.
5. Beer also works great as a cure for insomnia! Lactoflavin and nicotinic acid, which are both present in beer, can promote sleep!
6. Beer will reduce your risk of a heart attack – significantly! According to the experts, beer drinkers have a 40 to 60 percent reduced risk of suffering a heart attack compared with non-beer drinkers.
7. Beer is also great in preventing blood clots! How this works – well, the experts say that the ingredients found in beer help prevent blood clots from forming.
8. The experts say that beer will boost your memory as well! A recent study has shown that beer drinkers are less likely to suffer from Alzheimer’s disease and dementia than non-beer drinkers.
9. This drink will also help you fight stress. A group of experts, at the University of Montreal, have found that two glasses of beer a day can reduce work-related stress or anxiety.
10. And finally, beer will make your skin look more youthful and beautiful! Ladies, that’s great – right? The experts say that certain vitamins in beer can regenerate the skin and have a positive impact on pigmentation. Your skin becomes smoother and suppler.
http://readanddigest.com/10-good-reason-why-you-should-drink-beer-number-4-is-very-important/
I had rheumatic fever as a kid. When I got out of the hospital, my doctor instructed my parents that I was to drink 8 ounces of beer every evening. It is a prescription that I followed diligently for a lifetime. I attribute my athletic and intellectual prowess to Coors beer. 🙂
Incidentally, my mother worked at Coors for a while, in their porcelain plant. They were making flak vests for Viet Nam airmen and soldiers at the time. Go figure. The Coors brewery is fascinating. The company owns (or at least did then) its own farms and can manufacturing plant. One plant handled the entire US demand for beer They liked that cold Rocky Mountain spring water a lot. Trivia on a lazy evening . . .
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Mary, TY. After reading that, I just had to pop a bottle. Cheers to you and TSOH!
*****
In any case watch out for the congeners, the hangover agents. I wonder if lambanog has ’em.
And as a follow-up question, can anyone help me with regards to the following things?
I’ve been hearing many times that human rights victims during ML should file cases. So does that mean that no cases are filed yet? I can’t seem to process it.
Also, given the scale of the abuses during ML, what sorts of investigations were done? And other than the Marcoses, why does it seem that not one was ever prosecuted and convicted? But doing a quick google search again, it seems that the system itself is to blame.:
” Shortly after assuming office in early 1986, President Corazon Aquino appointed a Presidential Committee on Human Rights (PCHR) to investigate past and present abuses, and named highly respected former Senator Jose Diokno as its chair. LAWYERS COMMITTEE FOR HUMAN RIGHTS, IMPUNITY: PROSECUTIONS OF HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATIONS IN THE PHILIPPINES 19-20 (1991). ”
“Out of concern that early prosecutions might detract from other objectives of the human rights community and destabilize the new government before it had time to consolidate power, Diokno devised a strategy of preparing a handful of airtight “test cases” for prosecution. ”
“Unfortunately, Diokno became terminally ill shortly after his appointment. After his death, the PCHR failed to implement even Diokno’s conservative strategy. Id. To date, only a handful of Marcos-era human rights abuses have resulted in convictions. No high level official in the Marcos administration has faced criminal charges, and the Philippine government has taken no steps to assess Marcos’s liability for human rights abuses committed during his years in office. ”
“The lack of governmental will to expose and acknowledge the truth
impeded efforts to punish those responsible or provide an effective
remedy to the victims.”
http://lawdigitalcommons.bc.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1265&context=twlj
And my replies are all over the place. That’s what I get for doing this so early in the morning. -_-
Well, the following was supposed to be the whole original reply:
Adversity is probably very important if the Filipino people are to ‘awaken’. However, this awakening will be for both the good & the bad, and both will also be amplified in some ways as people did have the tendency to stick with what they started with. But if there is a key takeaway from this, at least these things will then be made so apparent that the people will not able to just ignore it anymore. No choice but to do something about it and confront it, which is probably what is happening now.
But if there is one concern that I have, many people from both camps seem to dislike looking at the other side. Many can’t seem to consider the idiosyncrasies and would just prefer to preach to the choirs from their pulpits. This is probably especially the case for many of those with knowledge because, well, they do have the high ground. And really now, you probably can’t expect the majority of people ‘below’ them to climb up to their level. This is the reason why some people may say that there is some sort of ‘disconnect’ with regards to these people. That no matter how good their intentions are, they are perceived to be just moralizing so it seems to be just pushing people away further. So though their numbers seem to be increasing now, it’ll probably plateau very soon if this continues.
So what can be done about it then?
Well, for starters, rather than try to immediately condemn the decision, why not try to slowly build it up? Because to be blunt, this problem has really been in the works for a long time already. To quote an assessment that I’ve stumbled upon:
“BBM has played a proactive long game to ensure every move they make is acceptable whereas anti-Marcos efforts are always reactive and short-term.”
So if people would really want to upturn this decision, they should really prepare for a long game. But since, time is actually somewhat short, (About six years? Maybe even shorter given the circumstances of the VP electoral protest?) rather than shout “hukayin”, it would probably be better to shout “i-probe at imbestigahan”? The latter would probably be more feasible than the former. Because if there is another hindrance to upturning this problem, it would be the lack of a proper precedent.
And in addition to that, I’d have to advise against condemning the Marcoses directly as it will just backfire. It will just be seen as a demolition job as those people would just play the victim and it really won’t help the case against them. You’ll just be perceived as having hidden agendas.
But that doesn’t mean that people can stop condemning. However, rather than focus on the Marcoses, why not condemn Martial Law as a whole to avoid politicizing the issue? Maybe start with those other people involved back then? Focus on the minions first then go after the boss? Because if there is a middle ground to both camps, an investigation/reinvestigation would probably be something that people will look forward to.
As for a specific course of action, why not have Ramos and Enrile testify about what happened during Martial Law? Humor what Imee Marcos had said back then at LNMB. Appeal to their sense of self-preservation and self-interest then let them fight it out among themselves. Open the can of worms. Though troublesome, how else would you get to the truth? Pussyfooting around the issue never got us anywhere.
And doing a quick google search, it seems that Enrile had actually volunteered to testify back then regarding what happened during Martial Law. [1] So again, why not have a probe? Even include Ramos while they are still alive?
[1] http://www.gmanetwork.com/news/story/277774/news/nation/enrile-supports-probe-of-martial-law-years-will-tell-all
[Uhm… Can you delete the unnecessary additional reply, Mr Joe? It seems to have hidden the note enclosed in angle brackets ]
[This was posted before but it was all over the place. Heh.]
Adversity is probably very important if the Filipino people are to ‘awaken’. However, this awakening will be for both the good & the bad, and both will also be amplified in some ways as people did have the tendency to stick with what they started with. But if there is a key takeaway from this, at least these things will then be made so apparent that the people will not able to just ignore it anymore. No choice but to do something about it and confront it, which is probably what is happening now.
But if there is one concern that I have, many people from both camps seem to dislike looking at the other side. Many can’t seem to consider the idiosyncrasies and would just prefer to preach to the choirs from their pulpits. This is probably especially the case for many of those with knowledge because, well, they do have the high ground. And really now, you probably can’t expect the majority of people ‘below’ them to climb up to their level. This is the reason why some people may say that there is some sort of ‘disconnect’ with regards to these people. That no matter how good their intentions are, they are perceived to be just moralizing so it seems to be just pushing people away further. So though their numbers seem to be increasing now, it’ll probably plateau very soon if this continues as they can’t seem to break out from their circles.
So what can be done about it then?
Well, for starters, rather than try to immediately condemn the decision, why not try to slowly build it up? Because to be blunt, this problem has really been in the works for a long time already. To quote an assessment that I’ve stumbled upon:
“BBM has played a proactive long game to ensure every move they make is acceptable whereas anti-Marcos efforts are always reactive and short-term.”
So if people would really want to upturn this decision, they should really prepare for a long game. But since, time is actually somewhat short, (About six years? Maybe even shorter given the circumstances of the VP electoral protest?) rather than shout “hukayin”, it would probably be better to shout “i-probe at imbestigahan”? The latter would probably be more feasible than the former. And also, if there is another hindrance to upturning this problem, it would probably be the lack of a proper precedent.
And in addition to that, I’d have to advise against condemning the Marcoses directly as it will just backfire. It will just be seen as a demolition job as those people would just play the victim and it really won’t help with the case against them. You’ll just be perceived as having hidden agendas. And public support is actually something important if people would want to get things done.
However, that doesn’t mean that people can stop condemning. However, rather than focus on the Marcoses, why not condemn Martial Law as a whole to avoid politicizing the issue? Maybe start with those other people involved back then? Focus on the minions first then go after the boss? Because if there is a middle ground to both camps, an investigation/reinvestigation would probably be something that many people will look forward to.
As for a specific course of action, why not have Ramos and Enrile testify about what happened during Martial Law? Humor what Imee Marcos had said back then at LNMB. Appeal to their sense of self-preservation and self-interest then let them fight it out among themselves. Open the can of worms. Though troublesome, how else would we get to the truth? Pussyfooting around the issue did never get us anywhere.
And doing a quick google search, it seems that Enrile had actually volunteered to testify back then regarding the events surrounding Martial Law. [1] So again, why not have a probe? Habang buhay pa si Manong Johnny. haha
[1] http://www.gmanetwork.com/news/story/277774/news/nation/enrile-supports-probe-of-martial-law-years-will-tell-all
====================
And as a follow-up question, can anyone help me with regards to the following things?
I’ve been hearing many times that HR victims during ML should file cases. So does that mean that no cases are filed yet? I can’t seem to process it.
Also, given the scale of the abuses during ML, what sorts of investigations were done? And other than the Marcoses, why does it seem that no other people were prosecuted and convicted? But doing a quick google search again:
” Shortly after assuming office in early 1986, President Corazon Aquino appointed a Presidential Committee on Human Rights (PCHR) to investigate past and present abuses, and named highly respected former Senator Jose Diokno as its chair. LAWYERS COMMITTEE FOR HUMAN RIGHTS, IMPUNITY: PROSECUTIONS OF HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATIONS IN THE PHILIPPINES 19-20 (1991). ”
“Out of concern that early prosecutions might detract from other objectives of the human rights community and destabilize the new government before it had time to consolidate power, Diokno devised a strategy of preparing a handful of airtight “test cases” for prosecution. ”
“Unfortunately, Diokno became terminally ill shortly after his appointment. After his death, the PCHR failed to implement even Diokno’s conservative strategy. Id. To date, only a handful of Marcos-era human rights abuses have resulted in convictions. No high level official in the Marcos administration has faced criminal charges, and the Philippine government has taken no steps to assess Marcos’s liability for human rights abuses committed during his years in office. ”
“The lack of governmental will to expose and acknowledge the truth
impeded efforts to punish those responsible or provide an effective
remedy to the victims.”
http://lawdigitalcommons.bc.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1265&context=twlj
So given the current governments ‘political will’, do you think that the public can actually urge them to investigate/reinvestigate the events of Martial Law? Because as said above, I think this is actually more feasible than urging the government to exhume whatever was buried in LNMB. Because for starters, it isn’t actually in conflict with any laws.
This is the post I saw, read, then it disappeared… now it’s back. ip, how’d you delete your own posts earlier?
He didn’t, I did, on his request. I deleted what seemed like duplicate posts, but don’t know if they were the right ones. He has provided a comprehensive re-post and you can talk to that one.
ip,
I’ve finally looked into the Silme Domingo case as well as the Trajano case, presided by one US District Judge https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manuel_Real
The Trajano case was interesting and I wish caliphman were here to explain jurisdictional issues, but fines were levied and I’m not sure if that Philippine Reparation Act is connected to this particular case and if the art stuff seized in NY is also being collected as part of this case.
The Trajano case seems like a run of the mill Mafia case, but since it happened in the Philippines not really much you can do, except some American Judge’s ruling (jurisdictionally I still don’t understand how he can make a ruling on some crime committed in foreign soil, involving non-Americans).
But Domingo case is different: “Attorneys said the verdict represents the first case in which a foreign leader has been found liable for carrying out covert intelligence operations in this country.” http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1989-12-17/news/8903180832_1_gene-viernes-silme-domingo-cannery-workers-union
I wouldn’t go as far as labeling a measly hit carried out by Filipino street gangsters “covert intelligence operations” but an American died in the US , made possible by a foreign state controlled by a dictator.
Just that alone, I’d think the FBI would be very interested in this case. But it all boils down to Mafia assassinations and what you can prove, ie. in the end you can’t “prove” their hand in it. Hence, the Mafia usually gets caught via tax laws and/or snitches.
The effective neglect of human-rights abuses during Martial Law nearly made people forget.
There was only one major history work on torture during Martial Law for quite a while – Tortyur by Prof. Xiao Chua of La Salle – he told me it was basically his high school paper on the topic…
Fortunately the rise of BBM during the past elections must have been a factor in galvanizing Raissa Robles into writing her book which contains a wealth of information on Martial Law – information from have lived during those times plus knowing a lot of primary sources.
Irineo,
I find uncanny the events leading to, among others, the writing by Raissa of her book — of which, she said she labored mightily — the surreptitious burial of Marcos and the awakening of the millennials to the horrors of Martial Law. In a way there is an element of “self-correction” here.
edgar: “the Marcos dictatorship was not well-documented and the lessons were not taught in school because they were not in the textbooks. “
Ireneo: “The effective neglect of human-rights abuses during Martial Law nearly made people forget.”
Fellas,
This whole forgetting is very worrisome. I can understand not well-documented, and neglect of human-rights abuses, but
how exactly did the Filipinos themselves forget how bad Marcos was? I can understand blaming the schools and media to a degree.
BUT if the injustice was so great, every Filipino should remember. Forget schools and media, why was all this not transferred from Father to Son, from Grandparent to Grandkid, Mother to Daughter, and so on…
I have vivid memories of WWII and the Depression from my Grandparents; then of the Civil Rights movement, Counter Revolution and Vietnam War from my parents… heck, I have buddies from the South who still remember the Civil War (from family stories)!
OK, schools and media didn’t cover it, they probably had more important priorities, but why did Filipino families forget? Not only forget but seized to be angry.
LCpl_X,
The politics of the MOMENT is so intense — with the average politicians and movie and boxing/sport celebrities behaving the same way; and the entertainment world being the opium of the Filipino masses — that the past politics no matter its horrendous associated atrocities and plunder is blind sided.
I understand that, but how about in the mid- to late 80s , then onwards? When all this Martial Law stuff was fresh in every Filipino’s memory?
“… the entertainment world being the opium of the Filipino masses …”
That seems to me to be the at the core of the problems of the Filipino psyche. It seems a whole industry, and society, simply focussed resources and time into one entertainment arena. A nonsense programme like wow wow wee can make Willie the kind of money where he can afford to loose 700m pesos in a single night at the casino. It’s a societal failure. People simply aren’t interested in real historical and governmental issues. They tune in to the circus only.
I can understand not being interested in history or politics and gov’t, but there should be some sort of uniformity when Filipinos remember Marcos,
ie. when Americans remember say Hitler , there’s a level of uniformity; this is true for say Nixon (ie. crook), Reagan (communicator); Clinton (cigars), W. Bush (a goof ball), Obama (red line), etc. I understand there’re spectrum of this, but it seems Marcos is both good guy and bad guy , why there’s such a confusion, or dissonance, is confusing,
and I’m prone to conclude that Marcos wasn’t a bad guy, I agree with chempo he was no Lee Kwan, but at heart Marcos wasn’t a particularly violent man, hence the last impression on Filipinos is that yeah the Philippines was poorer economically,
but most Filipinos do not have nightmares at night remembering the Martial Law years, and that is an important point worth considering IMHO. Otherwise institutional and cultural memory would be found—- I agree with ip, it’s not there, the fear of Marcos present in other dictators in history.
This is just my reading, having no personal involvement in this, but me weighing all this thru Google, comments, movies, etc. There’s just an absence of fear—– even in chempo’s articles where his case against Marcos is more on economic or political stuff, but the fear factor, which
in turn materializes cultural/institutional hatred, akin to say Saddam or Qaddafi, etc. It is just not there. Couple all this with Ireneo’s not-all-Filipinos were affected by Marcos, I’m thinking it’s just one of these things…
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How does one judge bad?
Compared to Duterte, no, perhaps Marcos was not that violent.
But he was one of the greatest thieves in recent history.
You forget the people’s laissez-faire attitudes and short memories.
And there is the tribalism factor. The Marcoses have a bastion, a lair, from which they can consolidate their fortune and launch their ambitions.
There could be many other factors.
*****
*******
The vilification of Hitler is not uniform and universal. There are Holocaust deniers and neoNazi movements. This despite Eisenhower’s orders to record the concentration camp atrocities, the Nuremberg trials, the official efforts of the German government at denazification, and the mighty efforts of the Jewish nation.
*****
“But he was one of the greatest thieves in recent history.”
Based on my light reading of the guy, even this I think can be blamed on his wife. I’ve seen plenty of gold diggers and women who push their men to constantly satiate there material needs— pro tip, Don’t date a stripper, LOL!
But even if he was a thief , even in prison there is a division between property crimes vs. violent crimes. Hollywood is replete with thief/hero movies , De Niro has played a bunch of them. So you don’t have to know Marcos’ story, to understand that thieves aren’t necessarily villains,
now I know that the standard mantra is that he stole from the Filipino people, but unless you can find individuals, this is just too abstract even for me to digest, much less some young Filipino millennial.
But IMHO this all has to be part of the truth and knowledge being conveyed here, don’t stretch the truth, don’t over villain -ize someone to make a case. Honestly, compared with Obama, Marcos probably has fewer innocents blood on his hands.
*******
Why don’t you read Chempo’s two-part posts on Marcos revisionism in The Society to get a real sense of what we are talking about?
*****
http://filipinogerman.blogsport.eu/a-telling-statement/comment-page-1/#comment-8241
LCPL_X, the article reposted here could be called “a short history of Filipino violence”.
How death squads were encouraged by Cory and Ramos, how DDS grew POST-Marcos…
But it takes an exile historian like Vicente Rafael (Seattle) to put together the known details.
Could it just be that every “tribe” has a bit of dirt to hide, so that stories become “biased”?
Even Manolo Quezon mentions how the oligarchy was extremely greedy after Marcos.
“The vilification of Hitler is not uniform and universal.”
Hence, I said there’s a level of uniformity, yeah there are neo-Nazis and Holocaust deniers, but sufficient documentation of the events, along with survivors telling their stories, Israel actually hunting them down and the Simon Wiesenthal center’s efforts at prevention , ensure push-back,
now that push-back IMHO was because of institutional memory that necessitates it, ie. it was so evil that it demands to be remembered, but Marcos wasn’t so evil hence less demand for remembering is my point here.
And that has to be part of the opposing narrative, because I’m sure I’m not the only one having trouble meshing Marcos’ evil deeds with reality here.
*******
LCpl_X,
You are making the fallacy of making a judgment of Marcos based on some people’s reaction and not on the facts.
I made the point several posts back about there not being an organized and continuous entity to push back against Marcos propaganda with a continuous opposing narrative.
There is no institutional memory because people at that time did not have Eisenhower’s perspicacity. And because there is no institutional memory there is no uniform collective memory.
If you have trouble assessing something, look at the facts and don’t rely on other people’s judgments. Rely on yourself and on your good sense of judgment.
*****
“Why don’t you read Chempo’s two-part posts on Marcos revisionism in The Society to get a real sense of what we are talking about?”
I did, hence my generalizing (or my main take away) of chemp’s articles, which is that Marcos was not on par with the likes of Saddam or Qaddafi, even Indonesia’s Suharto which would be his closest equivalent. Chemps articles was great research, but now I’m looking for collective memory here and comparing that with Mid-East dictators and other historical figures. And trying to figure out why Filipinos weren’t as affected by Marcos the same way say Iraqis were of Saddam, etc.
*******
LCpl_X,
In that case, are you now saying that you agree with Chempo’s assessment that Marcos was a great thief and not a hero?
And that your main issue is that of the collective amnesia about Marcos’s depredations? And not about his depredations?
Well, NHerrera, Irineo and I have provided reasons for this.
*****
This kind of stuff from Vicente Rafael’s article should also be part of the entire knowledge…
“So the irony of death squads. Rooted in colonial history, their current formation can be traced back to the transition from Marcos to Aquino, that is, from the end of authoritarian rule to the restoration of cacique democracy. Where Marcos could turn to the AFP as his own death squad, the post-EDSA oligarchy needed the aid of civilian volunteers, organized with the help of the police and the military into anti-communist vigilantes. As some scholars have pointed out, these vigilante death squads were the other side, the dark side if you will, of People Power. Indeed, that is how Cory herself referred to them when she encouraged them to wage war against the communists.
People Power was originally directed at Marcos. And when he was gone, it was directed at the communists. Terror and gruesome displays of violence–severed heads, for example, displayed on roadways, along with mutilated corpses–was the signature of groups like Alsa Masa. Duterte, as is well known, made his reputation by taming both vigilantes and communists. If various reports are to be believed, he, or at least those around him, recruited former NPAs and other lumpen types to serve as para-military forces in dealing with a new enemy: drug lords and drug users. His emergence into local prominence as mayor of Davao occurred at the crossroads of democratic transition and counter-insurgency, when “People Power” was taken to mean that ordinary people would be empowered to act on behalf of the state and kill its designated enemies. In a way, death squads are the perverse doubles of NGOs as both share a parallel history. “
*******
irineo, That Rafael piece is insightful.
*****
“There is no institutional memory because people at that time did not have Eisenhower’s perspicacity. “
There was nothing similar in Iraq as well, but they all seemed to remember to have feared Saddam (everyone, even those who supported him) , because his acts were so visceral there’s no need for politicking how people remembered him. People remembered him, period. Why was Marcos so easily forgotten? nay, forgiven?
We’ve explored the schools fault in this, also the press, then the entertainment industry, but aside from Ireneo’s quotes, we’ve not really discuss this personal transmission of Marcos’ memory yet. People tend to remember atrocities because there’s emotions involved, ie. sadness, vengeance, etc. that linger. There’s no lingering effect with Marcos. Why?
*******
LCpl_X,
You have supplied the answer: the story-telling was not institutionalized nor passed orally from one generation to another.
There are two main aspects of the Marcos dictatorship: the economic depredation and the violent suppression of dissent.
In terms of scale compared to Saddam or Duterte, the violent suppression was not marked. When I say that I do not wish to belittle the suffering of the many who were killed and tortured, but the magnitude was not known to the public because the media was controlled.
The economic depredations were more publicly known. And people, even in their economic hardship, do not really understand economics. Oh, they could mock Imelda for her 1,200 pairs of shoes. But the massive thievery hardly penetrated public consciousness because the sums were unimaginable. And to counter the anti-Marcos narrative, weren’t there numerous infrastructure improvements? The Heart Center? The Lung Center? The Kidney Center? The Cultural Center? The International Convention Center? The San Juanico Bridge? Etcetera, etcetera.
Both of these aspects were only known after the fall. Not during, but after. This is important.
But the workings of the Human Rights Victims Claim Board (HRVCB), which was tasked with reparations, are not as glamorous as the workings of the Philippine Commission on Good Government (PCGG), which was tasked with the recovery of Marcos’s ill-gotten wealth.
*****
“And because there is no institutional memory there is no uniform collective memory.”
There was little institutional memory of Nazi abuses until the 1968er movement in Germany – also because postwar Germany on both sides continued with the a lot of the same personnel.
Now it comes out that not only did post-Marcos Philippines continue with a lot of the same personnel, it continued the same stuff in terms of looting (see MLQ3s article, only the oligarchs did it legally this time) and killing (see Vicente Rafael’s article on death squads). Still surprised?
“There’s no lingering effect with Marcos. Why?” Maybe because Filipinos for the most part simply DON’T care unless something happened to their own family or extended kinship group?
More people have died in less than six months than in all the Marcos years, who cares today?
“There was little institutional memory of Nazi abuses until the 1968er movement in Germany”
Ireneo, the victims of Nazi wrath would ‘ve been outside of Germany having left after the war, no? Hence the little institutional memory, but Filipinos affected by Marcos would’ve stayed in the Philippines, and if there were indeed more of them, then we’d see this transferring of memory, which would’ve convulsed at the notion of his (and his family’s) return.
“but Filipinos affected by Marcos would’ve stayed in the Philippines,” many did NOT, Manolo Quezon’s article documents this… so it is not surprising that anti-Marcos resistance is stronger in the Fil-Am community than in the Philippines – among Fil-Ams families often DO remember.
““The middle class, disheartened and disillusioned, clinging as it had to the romantic notion it represented something noble together with the old oligarchy, fled the country (and is now virtually absent from the scene). What’s left of it attempted its own Last Hurrah with Edsa Two, only to discover it was fatally divided over a residual romanticism towards politics, and the adoption of the Marcosian grasping class’s attitudes towards government.”
” The 1971 Constitutional Convention ended up pandering to a dictatorship that sent an entire generation of Filipino professionals, stifled by the dictatorship, into exile; an entire political generation was deprived of power until it came to geriatric and greedy power in 1987, in a sense triggering a second exodus as devastating as that of the 70s: the middle class exodus from the 90s to the present.”
“In that case, are you now saying that you agree with Chempo’s assessment that Marcos was a great thief and not a hero?”
Yeah, a great thief and a murderer are two completely different things, is my point.
“And that your main issue is that of the collective amnesia about Marcos’s depredations? And not about his depredations?
Well, NHerrera, Irineo and I have provided reasons for this.”
Yup, but NH’s was entertainment industry (which I’m saying to look pass), yours was simply division (which hints to Ireneo’s non all Filipinos were affected by Marcos the same way), and
Ireneo’s was that Filipinos were affected differently, I get all that, but why do you guys seem to persist with this whole Marcos as evil narrative, if the actual narrative (at least from my reading of this) is that he wasn’t (ie. Obama would have more innocents’ blood on his hands than Marcos)
my other point, but related, is that maybe over-vilification is the turn-off here, as it is with me, ie. the truth shouldn’t be stretched any further than necessary, and I’m getting the impression that it is being stretched a bit too far re Marcos’ villainy.
So if we have to come up with a scale of 1 to 10 here: Pol-pot being a 10 and chemp’s Lee Kwan Yew as 1 , where would you place Marcos in that scale and then justify the attribution of Evilness within that scale… and see if the two attributions, 1-10 and evil mesh.
*******
LCpl_X,
I suppose it’s easy to come up with a scale based on the number of deaths.
But that belittles the suffering. To reverse Stalin’s dictum: “The death of millions is a statistic, but the death of one man is a tragedy.”
*****
“so it is not surprising that anti-Marcos resistance is stronger in the Fil-Am community than in the Philippines – among Fil-Ams families often DO remember.”
So Filipinos are then justified in feeling neutral when the subject of Marcos comes up, they essentially weren’t affected (I mean, yeah, economically and politically Marcos drove the Philippines into a ditch).
From this perspective it makes sense why Filipinos don’t care much that Marcos was buried in Libingan. So why force them to care?
110
For me Marcos would be somewhere less than a 5.
LCPL_X, I like to compare the way many of us here – the old postwar Filipino middle class that migrated during the Marcos period and after – to the educated Iranians that left due to Khomeini.
I happen to know a number of those Iranians who left, few came back because they happen to be a minority in their own country now. One stays close, in Qatar, but doesn’t go back to Iran.
It is interesting that the anti-Marcos demonstrations abroad are focused on the USA, some in Canada and Australia, some pockets in the UK. Very few in Germany, mostly college grads.
From the places where the Filipinos are who are mostly not grads of the well-known colleges – Italy, Spain, Middle East, most of Europe, Southeast Asia, Hong Kong – no demonstrations.
Those Filipinos think differently, grew up differently from most of us, with other concerns – they are as different from “old-school middle class” Filipinos as the typical “Democrats Abroad” American or New England/California American is from the Rust or Bible Belt Trump supporter.
Even if many are going middle class now, they are not part of the old Filipino Republic’s tradition.
edgar: “Born suckers — almost all emotion and no brains. No critical thinking.”
Which circles us back to this sentiment…
How could you levy such charge, when they weren’t personally affected by Marcos (if the majority of those who were jumped ship). It is then understandable that they are in effect neutral when it comes to Marcos, and thus unfair to accuse them for not caring.
Essentially they don’t remember because there ‘s nothing to remember, ie. they weren’t affected. How do you force someone to remember something that didn’t happen to them?
*******
Refer to my 5:34 pm post.
*****
“LCpl_X,
You have supplied the answer: the story-telling was not institutionalized nor passed orally from one generation to another.”
That was the premise, now I think it’s safe to conclude base on our exchange here that there was essentially no story to pass down, in the Philippines— since those who possess institutional memory were mostly outside of the Philippines. Is that fair?
*******
LCpl_X,
My assessment is that there is a story to pass down. It is there in the statistics and the facts.
The institutional memory is still being shaped. The struggle for the collective memory is going on.
But the struggle is fraught with uncertainty because there is some perversity in the Filipino. Some? One could say a great deal.
Close to 6,000 persons have been killed in 5 months under Duterte. Only half of that during Marcos’ reign of 14 years of martial law.
Do the majority of the people suffer nightmares under Duterte? No, on the contrary, they are satisfied! And this massacre is being carried out before their eyes.
So why should 3.240 unpublished deaths under martial law bother the people?
The horrors of martial law were not apparent during the time. It is apparent now to many but not to all. The support for the Marcoses is sizable.
So the story is still being written. And it will be written by the victors.
*****
“There are two main aspects of the Marcos dictatorship: the economic depredation and the violent suppression of dissent.”
chemp covered the economic stuff, I’m only wanting to focus on the violent stuff, since I think this is where lingering memories is found, we’ve already established that much of the lingering memories associated with violent suppression by Marcos went to the West—-
were there mass grave sites found in the Philippines, if not, we can safely assume that it did go to the West, hence those Filipinos who possess this memory, cannot blame the Filipinos left in the Philippines to remember something they don’t. Is that fair?
“LCPL_X, I like to compare the way many of us here – the old postwar Filipino middle class that migrated during the Marcos period and after – to the educated Iranians that left due to Khomeini.”
I agree. Essentially our exchange turns Joe’s article topsy turvy, ie. what knowledge is there to recover? Those who possess this memory would have to return to the Philippines, and I’m sure those in the West (to include Australia 😉 ) are happy where they are. Is it possible to replicate this knowledge virtually, I think not (the sense of pain and anger has to be real).
Marcos was NOT simply violent. He knew how to calibrate oppression.
Think the kind of possible pressure Duterte may have applied towards some of the Bilibid drug lords to make them testify against De Lima – this kind of stuff happened a lot in Marcos days.
Meaning a lot of people compromised to survive, then made sure they left and did NOT tell their story after that – probably a lot more than those who actually suffered for NOT compromising. And those compromised at home did not want to hear the stories of the real victims at home..
“what knowledge is there to recover?” that of those who stayed home – including people like former CHR head Etta Rosales or Education Secretary Briones who were both affected.
Even harder, that of those forced into compromises they may be ashamed of until now.
“Meaning a lot of people compromised to survive, then made sure they left and did NOT tell their story after that – probably a lot more than those who actually suffered for NOT compromising. And those compromised at home did not want to hear the stories of the real victims at home..”
Ireneo, but all that would’ve been rendered nil upon oustment of Marcos , and in this return, if all that was still in the Philippines, would’ve been empowered. But silence.
Unless, of course you’re saying there was some Stockholm syndrome epidemic, but base on South African let’s hug-it-out fest, after Apartheid, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Truth_and_Reconciliation_Commission_(South_Africa) victims tend to be boisterous to their victimizers.
“that of those who stayed home – including people like former CHR head Etta Rosales or Education Secretary Briones who were both affected.”
Now you’re confusing me again, Ireneo, and I don’t sleep well confused. So were there more of these back in the Philippines, or were there a lot more outside of the Philippines? Because if now, there were more left in the Philippines, then we circle back to the original question, why was all this not transferred? And I don’t buy the Stockholm syndrome explanation. 😉 . OK, I’ll catch this discussion tomorrow.
“But the struggle is fraught with uncertainty because there is some perversity in the Filipino. Some? One could say a great deal.
Close to 6,000 persons have been killed in 5 months under Duterte. Only half of that during Marcos’ reign of 14 years of martial law.
Do the majority of the people suffer nightmares under Duterte? No, on the contrary, they are satisfied! And this massacre is being carried out before their eyes.”
https://joeam.com/2016/11/24/knowledge-rising-in-the-philippines/#comment-203101 – Edgar, I think this posting is key to understanding much of the Filipino mentality – family- and self-centered, not caring so much for society as a whole except for the concerned, educated few…
“We were practical, conventional, materialistic and happy… and proud to be so. We compromised.”
“When martial law was imposed in ’73 we were in our early twenties. We were gainly employed, dreaming of a promotion, a bigger salary and more. We thought martial law was a good thing because it ended the disruptive street demonstrations, jailed suspected communists, improved obedience to traffic rules and the peace and order situation because there was a curfew.”
******
Irineo, I agree. Great insight there.
*****
And this continuation matches exactly the story of the Filipino middle class told by MLQ3:
“When things started to go bad, we didn’t pay much attention because our priority was sustaining our personal upward trajectory. An arrest here, a disappearance there, Imelda’s foreign junkets and extravaganzas, Marcos’ cronies cornering of the banana,sugar and rice production and trading we simply ignored. We admired and applauded the people who were able to sidle into the corridors of power, and tried to get ‘connected’ to them.
After awhile the abuses mounted, the economy faltered. We became afraid, restless.
Then Ninoy Aquino was assassinated.
We woke up, as though from a stupor or a bad dream,depends where or what we were at when it happened.”
and as long as the middle class does not understand its own involvement in the mistakes of the past and pins everything on Marcoses alone, the cycles of history are bound to repeat, I think.
“When martial law was imposed in ’73 we were in our early twenties. We were gainly employed, dreaming of a promotion, a bigger salary and more. We thought martial law was a good thing because it ended the disruptive street demonstrations, jailed suspected communists, improved obedience to traffic rules and the peace and order situation because there was a curfew.”
So essentially you and Anton are in agreement, just processing it afterwards (long afterwards) differently. It’s all about how the story ‘s written, but IMHO it has to be balanced, don’t over-vilify on your side… because it’ll just fall suspect (ie. my too many holes statement).
*******
LCpl_X, It is indeed worrisome.
Filipinos are happy-go-lucky in both directions of time — the past and the future.
Happy to forget and happy not to plan for the future. Bahala na!
Born suckers — almost all emotion and no brains. No critical thinking.
Oh, yes, they criticize but it’s almost all ad hominem. And what is not ad hominem is fallacious ideation and reasoning.
They voted for:
o Cory because of Ninoy’s martyrdom
o Erap because he was funny.
o Gloria because she was cute.
o PNoy because Cory died.
o Duterte because he swore — and swore to kill.
So they are political fodder for demagogues or anyone with a modicum of purpose.
P.S. Legend building in textbooks? There is more Marcos propaganda on YouTube than one can poke a stick at.
*****
I’m not even talking about critical thinking and reasoning, just simple story telling,
ie. I know Russia and easter Bloc immigrants, who still love their country of origin (or their parents country of origin), but they remember bread lines and thought police and they tell stories and can tell/share these stories to others,
you talk about textbooks and youtube, why weren’t there opposing stories?
*******
No political will, no organization, no funding.
Perhaps the error was in letting the Marcoses return.
*****
LCpl_X,
I am sounding like a broken record here. Again the entertainment circus or industry. Story telling using the latest episode of wow wow wee that chem used or some such as examples. That is the story that draws attention from the neighbors. It was at a time that TV got the focus of neighbors at the house of a friend who happens to have the priced gadget. Who cares about what Marcos did when Willie or his earlier counterpart, the Sottos, were offering prices at Eat Bulaga show and lots of stories with sexual content. Now that is the story I will relay when I go home from my neighbor with the TV.
“ie. I know Russia and easter Bloc immigrants, who still love their country of origin (or their parents country of origin), but they remember bread lines and thought police and they tell stories and can tell/share these stories to others,”
Yesterday I talked with a Romanian about the recent history of the place and how little has changed. I was in Bucharest in 2008 and what she told me was – expect the same potholes in the same places if you ever come back. And of how little people earn there, how people have forgotten how to cook the meat dish sarmale, how she saw her mother do it a number of times but never tried. With Filipinos even these stories of the present, and near past, are missing.
I know more about immediate postwar Germany from family stories than I do about postwar Philippines. Bill in Oz’s article about McArthurs retaking Manila told me more about what happened there than my father ever did. But he is not only a historian, he was THERE.
Could it be that Filipinos simply don’t like to tell stories, being way too focused on the present?
Or that you get labelled if you tell stories that are true? Matobato is scorned by many Filipinos. But the typical provincial goon stories – confirmed by historians like Manolo Quezon and Vicente Rafael – I have heard from drunken migrant Filipinos, the type I was told not to hang out with…
History is so often a political tool in the Philippines, meant to bolster the arguments of one side or demolish the arguments of the other – not a common narrative. Words are weapons, not an instrument to tell the truth and keep it alive. Might be changing now, hope springs eternal.
http://filipinogerman.blogsport.eu/seven-filipino-generations/ is about how history should BE…
but the reality is having to find out the whole truth by reading the likes of Manolo Quezon:
http://filipinogerman.blogsport.eu/studying-its-villains/comment-page-1/#comment-9883
that article I quote is about how the Americanized Filipino middle class developed after the war.
and how the new migrant middle class came to be in recent years after they became less.
“Again the entertainment circus or industry.”
NH,
I get that. But I’m asking you to stop blaming the press, media, entertainment and schools for now, and just focus on
why remembering Marcos wasn’t compelling enough at a personal, family, neighborhood, town, etc. level? It can’t be because Filipinos don’t like stories about justice and injustice, because all shows and movies over there carry this theme, so we know Filipinos are receptive to good vs. bad stories,
but why doesn’t the Martial Law years get institutionally/culturally transferred at a personal level?
“Could it be that Filipinos simply don’t like to tell stories, being way too focused on the present?”
This is interesting, Ireneo, I know you’ve talked about how Filipinos are more prone to intermarry different ethnic groups, they are more prone to shedding their culture and language and more likely (compared to other nationalities) to not ensure their kids DO NOT speak their native language. Hence, the ability to assimilate , ie. you’ll not find a Filipino equivalent of Chinatowns around the world.
So maybe there is just a general lack of transfer to the next generation. But when I was in Mindanao, Filipinos still remembered Japanese atrocities… this I thought was uniform across the Philippines. So people there remember atrocities fine, on par with the rest of the world IMHO. So at least we can gauge base on that… and it’s still not adding right more me.
“but why doesn’t the Martial Law years get institutionally/culturally transferred at a personal level?” these two quotes from the MLQ3 article could be the key – basically it admits what most of us know, that much of the 1986 “revolution” was by the formerly pro-Marcos middle class…
“By the Marcos years, a middle class born in the American period had matured; educated and trained in the style of the ruling class, it shared many of that class’s biases and even pretensions. Among them was the illusion that it was the successor to the old landed and industrial families. They were not; they remained employees: the managers and directors comfortable in the new suburbs designed in imitation of the suburban communities of their bosses. They had homes, their children went to college, but in those colleges their children increasingly asked impertinent questions. Their reaction to impertinent questions and demonstrations was to express solidarity with the alarmed political and business leadership: after all, even as students established the Diliman commune, solidly middle-class residents of the vicinity established vigilante groups to assist the constabulary in flushing the rebels out.”
“Dictatorship demands conformity and conformity kills innovation. The systematic plunder of the country by Marcos and his cronies stripped the Old Society of its finances and thus, its political means; next came the looting of everything else. The middle class discovered itself defenseless, and without a champion in government: with the disgruntled old oligarchy it rebelled but lost to the old oligarchy as it, in turn, proceeded to loot the post-Edsa democracy to compensate itself for the losses of the martial law years.”
Students established the Diliman commune, and middle-class neighbors established vigilante groups to help the Constabulary flush them out is in the MLQ3 article..
now we have one former Diliman commune member her… Kuya Will what happened then?
It’s late now, but this exchange has been very productive for me, I finally understand why the lack of enthusiasm when it comes to Marcos in the Philippines. Thanks, gents. Good nite. 😉
“lack of enthusiasm”, ahahaha. That might be an accurate characterization for the young and ignorant, but judging by the positions taken by the universities here, and the grief of those who knew of the human cost first hand, it is quite a mischaracterization.
https://www.facebook.com/vicente.rafael1/posts/10157719369920328?pnref=story – about the history and politics of burial, from the FB wall of Prof. Vicente Rafael.. one could add that the public execution of Gomburza created Rizal’s generation, Rizal’s execution fueled the Revolution… on the other side, anger about Mamasapano fueling sentiment versus Aquino..
A timely volume on the history and politics of burying the dead in the Philippines from UP Press. Thanks, J. Neil C. Garcia.
“Himlayan, Pantiyon, Kampo Santo, Sementeryo: Exploring Philippine Cemeteries contains five articles that looks into how different individuals are treated at death. The authors explore representations of non-adults, ethnicity, patriots, and boy scouts in various cemeteries in Manila and neighboring provinces during the different colonial periods in Philippine History. The book features infant and child burials in Manila North Cemetery and La Loma Catholic Cemetery; Chinese-Filipinos in the Manila Chinese Cemetery; the memorials and shrines built for Philippine Revolutionaries who fought against Spain and the United States; the Boy Scouts who died en route to the 11th World Scout Jamboree in Greece in 1963, and the military officers and soldiers, and national artists and scientists at the Libingan ng mga Bayani. The book advocates that we should take a second look at cemeteries not just as places for the dead but as active heritage sites where the living immortalize the dead through burial adornments. Mausoleums and gravestones also expose individual and collective histories of the deceased.
“The politics of where and how to bury the dead is a struggle. It is an internal emotional struggle of a mother who lost a child. It is a war of ideologies on defining who and what is a patriot. It is a clash between families and the government on owning the dead. And it is a conflict between a ruling class and the inferior merchant class divided by ethnicity and religion.
…the poor dying on the streets don’t elicit much emotion, so one could add the cultural element of social status of the one killed as important – just like Enrile said after Ninoy was killed: “you don’t kill anyone of any importance, that is simply not done” – caste system anyone?
Ireneo: “and as long as the middle class does not understand its own involvement in the mistakes of the past and pins everything on Marcoses alone, the cycles of history are bound to repeat, I think.”
Joe: “That might be an accurate characterization for the young and ignorant, but judging by the positions taken by the universities here, and the grief of those who knew of the human cost first hand, it is quite a mischaracterization.”
Joe,
If this Marcos stuff doesn’t affect the bigger portion of the Filipino population then , that majority has to be listened to or at least their perspective given weight.
The other side of revision of the Marcos narrative is over-vilification, and I think it’s what’s causing dissonance simply because (as we’ve seen in this exchange, Marcos wasn’t so bad— comparatively speaking)… the other side of over vilification is sainthood (or God-making), there has to be a more balanced story to tell here, is my point.
Now edgar brings up an interesting comparison re 3,000+ in Martial Law vs. 6,000+ under DU30, if Ireneo’s correct most of that 3,000 were middle class Filipinos and “communists”; under DU30 they would be druggies.
Not too many will care under DU30 kills because drug addicts tend to be expendable, in most societies. And I doubt those drug addicts that will survive DU30, will tell their story of DU30’s terror; But the middle class, academic Filipinos directly affected by Marcos, why didn’t they tell their stories, especially that crucial first decade after Marcos was ousted.
Now Ireneo could be correct that Marcos’ violence was so well calibrated that it only affected a few, but this would hint at the fact that Marcos knew how to wield violence better than say Pres. Obama, ie. our violence and proportionality discussion. So if Marcos was a lot more disciplined in the use of violence, then essentially you anti-Marcos folk can only level the economic charge on Marcos—- ie. he drove the country into the ground,
and frankly, this happens. Economics happens, the 70s was fraught with all sorts of problems, Pres. Carter installed water heaters up the White House and encouraged Americans to live simpler lives. So Marcos needn’t be the sole driver of economic down turn in the Philippines, it was global. And theft is a Filipino thing, especially among its politicians.
Basically, there was nothing so special with Marcos. He was the norm.
@LCX, I’ve enjoyed this discussion as it stretched my mind considerably to digest remarks like “there was nothing special with Marcos. He was the norm.” My first reaction was, “you have to be kidding me!”. My second was, “well, you know, if you put Everyman in the same position, you’d probably get close to the same result 80% to 90% of the time.” Ambitious wife determined to flaunt her station, powerful man just reacting to things. Put a Cayetano or Enrile or Jose Trikedriver in the same situation, then the results would be similar. If the character of a nation is determined democratically, by the sum of the proclivities of the people, then you are right.
Yet, if you put a Leni Robredo or Bam Aquino in the same position, I don’t think you would get the same result. You’d get a more humanistic result, and on a scale of 1 to 10, 10 being perfect humanist, President Aquino was probably an 8 whereas Robredo is as close to 10 as it is possible to get. Duterte is a 1. Marcos was a 4. Imelda a 3. So we would therefore conclude the Philippines is about a 4 on the international scale of national humanism. The Filipino humanists are aberrations.
Thus, we are nearing 6,000 innocents dead TODAY and people are incensed about history (the insult of Marcos being buried) and are protesting that. It does suggest a significant helping of self-absorption. Man, I have to reflect on this some more . . . thanks for the provocations . . .
If I may offer my two cents here, Marcos is perceived to be over-vilified because the focus is only on him. This is like condemning only Hitler again and again while ignoring Goebbels and Himmler. Because really now, given the scale of the abuses back then, many other people were bound to be involved. So where are they now anyways? What had happened to them? Doing better than ever and still richer than before, I presume? It just seems unrealistic to the common man.
Because again, if you really want to bring down the boss, you probably have to bring down the minions first. Current or former. So again, where are they? Because it can’t be denied that they can actually contribute something worthwhile to the case. And in addition to the question ‘where are they’: Who are these people anyways? Other than Ver and some cronies like Tan and Cojuangco, I honestly don’t know anyone else. How about Enrile and Ramos? Were their hands really as clean as a whistle?
And speaking of Ramos and Enrile, other than general statements of condemnation and threats of bringing out the ‘truth’ about the time of Marcos, what else had they contributed to the Marcos cause? These are probably supposed to be the things that the masses should know. But sadly, they actually don’t. Heck, call me ignorant and young as well, but even I don’t know.
*******
Here’s a partial list of Marcos’ cronies, intellectual deodorizers, henchmen, close associates, spokesmen, gofers and enablers:
Adrian Cristobal
Alejando Melchor Jr.
Antonio “Tony” Florendo
Arturo Tolentino
Benjamin “Kokoy” Romualdez
Blas Ople
Carlos P. Romulo
Catalino Macaraeg Jr.
Cesar Virata
Conrado Estrella
David Consunji
Eduardo “Danding” Cojuanco
Eduardo Romualdez
Emil Q. Javier
Emilio Espinosa Jr.
Ernesto Maceda
Estelito Mendoza
Fernando Lopez
Fidel Ramos
Francisco Tatad
Gerardo Sicat
Herminio Disini
Jacobo Clave
Jaime Laya
Jose Aspiras
Jose Campos
Jose Rono Jr.
Jose Yulo
Juan Ponce Enrile
Juan Tuvera
Leonardo Perez
Lucio Tan
Luis Villafuerte Sr
Manuel Alba
Manuel Collantes
Narciso Ramos
Onofre Corpuz
Placido Mapa Jr.
Ponciano Mathay
Ramon Cojuangco
Rene Espina
Ricardo Puno
Ricardo Silverio
Roberto “Bobby” Benedicto
Roberto “Bobby” Ongpin
Rodolfo Cuenca
Rodolfo del Rosario
Salvador Escudeo III
Simeon Datumanong
Teodoro Pena
Vicente Paterno
Vicente Valdepenas
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@Edgar Lores, going over the list, a lot of them actually rings a bell. And also, I think I can probably safely say that the presumption that many of them are actually doing better than ever is actually not unfounded.
However, I’ll still try to research about the others that I’m unfamiliar with. Thanks!
@chemrock, I’m curious of on what grounds was the recovery blocked for? But given that this moves seem to even reach up to the SC, it seems that this whole affair is being handled very systematically.
But since this happens again and again, the people have probably always been fighting in a very hostile playing field and they probably know it as well. But still, though the cause is good and noble and all, if this is happening repeatedly, a change of tactics is probably in order.
So with that, why not change the playing field then? Or move to another one? Or maybe even just expose that idiocy and unfairness of the field? Because there really doesn’t seem to be much coverage about it. So again, the masses don’t know and it also then follows that they also probably cannot care.
Because really now, if nothing is done to address this ‘unfairness’ first, then this does seems like a lost cause no matter the case.
Lance
Marcos thievery was no norm.
Ordinary Filipinos steal.
Politician Filipinos plunder.
Marcos raped the country. Plunder and even economic sabotage doesn’t quite describe it. The same man who coined the term “Genocide” calls the kind of pillaging done by Marcos “Indigenous Spoilation”. It’s a scorched earth pillage of a country leaving lives of the whole population devastated. Amongst many things, Marcos took a great chunk of corporate equities for himself, hidden under crony names with pre-signed deeds of transfers by these cronies, undated, transferred blank. He left behind all banking institutions, including the Central Bank, in huge amounts of debt
You are sanitising both his human rights violations and economic rape of the country.
Recovery efforts of the govt have been blocked by Bongbong every step of the way, even to this present day. To those who still have heads buried in the sand and believed in Bongbong’s virgin-like innocence in stolen wealth, hence the latest article to read up, just one of thousands :
http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/779476/pcgg-bongbong-blocked-return-of-40m-to-govt
In this era of post-truth, Philippines more than any other country, is under assault by an invisible army intent on establishing lies insidiously, where algorithmic justice sees Facebook sites of truths being forced closed. It is a very real and fatally serious state of being where light is slowly being extinguished extinguished. It is a time where Philstar can carry Mocha Uson’s latest column banner suggesting CBCP is the Anti :Christ, all in the name of Freedom of Speech.
Under such precarious situation, I don’t think a quasi-philosophical discourse skewing to a view of a milder version of Marcos hienous crimes adds anything to knowledge.
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Chemrock, thanks.
*****
“Man, I have to reflect on this some more . . . thanks for the provocations . . “
No, thank you, Joe! —for not kicking me out pre-maturely before I’ve made my points, LOL! 😉
Thank you Edgar for the list of Marcos, Sr.’s cronies and enablers. Some names surprised me, to my disappointment.
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LG, de nada. Yes, there were some good apples in the mix. It’s very hard to judge. Some rationalized better to do good to counterbalance the evil; some lost their bearings, their moral compass; and some were seduced by the intimacy with power.
As it was then, so it is now. Although the present crew is hardly sterling.
*****
E.L. Now, I think understand better why some UPians opposed the naming of the UP College of Business Administrstion, the Cesar Virata Hall.
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LG, Ah, yes, Virata, the economic technocrat. My impression is that he was one of those who sought to do good to counterbalance the evil. I could be wrong.
Does the name Rafael Salas ring a bell? He was one of the few technocrats — the only one I can remember in fact — who jumped ship. One of the rare class acts of integrity.
*****
Yes, Rafael Salas’ name does. His reputation, i remember, was good, as was O.D. Corpuz’s.
The inclusion, in your list, of C.P.Romulo, (especially), Emil Javier, and Jaime Laya, stunned me.
*******
LG, My use of the term “deodorizer” is not original. Romulo used it to describe himself.
He said to his wife Beth, “They (meaning the Marcos regime) are using me as a deodorizer.”
He was one of the ones who knew the depth of the perfidy but, like Virata, thought he could do some good. So he lent his name… and services.
*****
Edgar, you are right about Virata. OK, just like Abaya he is an Aguinaldo descendant, but you can’t blame people for their ancestors.
Cesar A. (Aguinaldo) Virata! Genetic predisposition.
Looks like CPR’s ‘deodorizing’ role was not effective at all. Nice, but naive, of him though to serve. I don’t recall ever reading about such pronouncement of himself.
In 1972, CPR signed my masters diploma, as UP President, same year Marcos, Sr. declared ML. CPR must have served Marcos after his UP presidency? I was no longer home by then.
So given these primary sources, were they ever used cohesively in a court of law so that the Marcoses can be convicted? Because if there is something that I’ve noticed, it seems that most cases were mostly for compensations and settlements for individuals or small groups.
However, doing some researching, there was actually a class action suit filed under the Alien Tort Status (ATS). The paper is titled: “Litigation Dilemmas: Lessons from the Marcos Human Rights Class Action”.
The paper is actually very comprehensive and the focus on the gains and losses for pursuing the case against Marcos can seem to shed some light on what may have happened on the other cases as well.
For a quick outline of some parts of the paper and some excerpts:
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{ DILEMMAS IN THE MARCOS LITIGATION
1.) The Participation Dilemma: To Play the Game or Sit Out?
2.) Representation Dilemmas: Who Should Speak for the Class?
3.) Should Movement Leaders Be Lead Plaintiffs?
4.) Should a Movement Organization Directly Represent Victims?
5.) The Settlement Dilemma: To Compromise or Fight On?
6.) Why Did Anti-Marcos Activists Encounter Litigation Dilemmas?”
6.1) Political and Movement Context
6.2.) Class Action versus Individual Suit
6.3.) Type of Lawyer
6.4.) Type of Defendant }
======
{ The board very clearly stated to [Swift] that the objective was for the Filipino
nation and the world to know that Marcos really violated the rights
of Filipinos during martial law. … We wanted a documentation of these
violations because to our minds there really was no systematic documentation,
and the government’s attitude was for us to forget—forget about the
brilliant struggle, the shining struggle of the Filipinos. (Interview with
Jovelyn, Quezon City, Aug. 2, 2006)
Rizal, a friend of several board members, put it more frankly. The case was “primarily for propaganda,” he told me, adding that many activists “did not expect that they would win the case or that they would get anything. Some people took itas a joke. … It’s more put it on record, preserve the evidence for propaganda purposes” (Interview with Rizal, Quezon City, July 9, 2006). The lawsuit was not only a propaganda mission, of course; multiple appeals and three separate jury trials—addressing liability, compensatory damages, and punitive damages—confirmed its firm legal and factual bases. }
======
{ During the hearing, Neri Colmenares, a class member, Philippine attorney, and SELDA member, explained his opposition. He had concluded that any legal reason for the clauses was probably secondary; their real basis for their inclusion was “primarily propaganda.”
The Marcoses want to refurbish their image tarnished by the verdict and the judgment of this Court and that they want to renew and cleanse it again by stating things like: That they maintain their innocence of the human rights violations. So, based on that framework I disagree with the settlement because it dilutes and nullifies the verdict and the judgment of this Court. It distorts the truth and history. (In re Estate of Ferdinand E. Marcos Human Rights Litigation, Transcript of Proceedings, Apr. 29, 1999, 49–50)
The judge explained that the settlement would cap the total amount of funds that could be collected, but the judgment would remain in place. Colmenares was not satisfied: “the propaganda effect of the insertion … would be so that it reverses or nullifies the historic symbol of the judgment itself.” It would be, he suggested, as if the Jewish people agreed to a $1 billion settlement with the Nazis, in which the Nazis acknowledged no fault; this simply would not be acceptable (In re Estate of Ferdinand E. Marcos Human Rights Litigation, Transcript of Proceedings, Apr. 29,1999, 35). The judge replied:
The Court: Unfortunately, in the law we deal with a lot of words that really don’t mean anything. … I’ve never seen a settlement agreement in which the defendant does not deny any liability. It just doesn’t happen. It just does not happen.
Colmenares: Well, Your Honor, this is a different case, Your Honor. In—
The Court: No, it isn’t. (In re Estate of Ferdinand E. Marcos Human Rights
Litigation, Transcript of Proceedings, Apr. 29, 1999, 36)
Where activists like Colmenares saw a struggle over historical meaning, the judge saw a typical tort case—in which injury translates into compensation, and settlements routinely involve disclaimers of liability. For Jovelyn, this was disgraceful: “The case involves crimes against humanity. It’s not as simple as [money], see? … It’s very insulting to us, that if we just show to the world that the victims filed a case with Imelda so that she can pay us” (Interview with Jovelyn, Aug. 2, 2006). }
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{ CONCLUSION: ATS LITIGATION AS OPPORTUNITY AND DILEMMA
The experiences of the radical Philippine activists who sued Ferdinand Marcos suggest that even as filing an ATS suit creates opportunities for legal mobilization, the litigation process can pose strategic dilemmas. Activists may disagree over whether or not to file a case, who is best suited to represent claimants, and whether or not to settle a lawsuit. The dynamics of a movement can inform how activist Litigation Dilemmas litigants negotiate these strategic dilemmas, and disagreements over the right strategy for proceeding in litigation can contribute to dissension and divisions between activists and movement organizations.
Comparing the Marcos litigation with prior studies of ATS litigation suggests that these dilemmas may be sharper, and more likely to foster divisions within a movement, if a lawsuit is framed as a class action; if it is not litigated by cause lawyers; if the defendant is a former state official; or if it is brought by activists who are no longer united by opposition to a single opponent, or who are opposed to US influence in their country. These factors suggest how and why litigation dilemmas might present themselves during human rights litigation. They help explain why the Marcos litigation was a more complicated and contradictory experience for activists than those that scholars have observed in previous studies of legal mobilization via ATS litigation. }
=======
http://sci-hub.cc/doi/10.1111/lsi.12207
======
So in a nutshell, it seems that there were lots of conflicting stances and ideas from different people with regards to making Marcos accountable? And also, it seems that pursuing settlements is really a bad idea when you still can’t convict? But do know that I’m not really familiar with law stuff so I may not actually not make sense here.
However, if there is anything that I can infer from cases in general, another factor can probably be the Filipino’s preference for things to not get big so that they’ll choose to just settle very quickly? Usually regardless of what is ‘sacrificed’ in the process? Basta makaraos ika nga? Bahala na yung susunod mamroblema?
======
And lastly, just in case somebody might be interested, try checking out sci-hub.cc for free access to almost ANY RESEARCH PAPERS ONLINE. As long as there is a DOI, you can have access. For science! =D
For a background about the said site, you can check out the following link:
http://bigthink.com/neurobonkers/a-pirate-bay-for-science
IP, Uno. For the Marcos Litigation Dilemmas and following thoughts.
light …we are seeking light at the end of the black tunnel
Off topic
A SIMPLE VIEW OF THE DYNAMICS BETWEEN DUTERTE, TRUMP AND XI
Well, it has gone full circle — sorta closed the dynamics loop.
1. First the Duterte-Obama rift because of Obama’s Human Rights comments and Duterte’s reaction complete with Duterte’s trademark expletives and Duterte’s display of US troops massacre of muslims at Bud Dajo in the Laos Summit.
2. The warming up of Duterte-Xi relations subsequent to this with the former’s visit to China.
3. With the election of Trump, an opportunity for both sides is offered to adjust relations soured by the Duterte-Obama rift. And so it happened with the phone conversation between Duterte and Trump, with the two, among others, inviting each other to visit their respective countries.
I believe that the “closing of the loop” offers Duterte, Trump and Xi opportunities with respect to regional security, especially with respect to the Philippines.
Related to my post above is the thought that this re-warming up or freshening up of relations between the US and the PH WILL NOT be greeted with applause by China’s leaders; but neither will it result in China reviving clear hostility towards the PH, in my opinion.
Of course, the Chinese are bright enough, aided by their intel, to see this coming and/ or have read Duterte correctly. My creative imagination tells me that there will be many-sided “signaling” that will be made in the coming weeks, months.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mendiola_massacre
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1986%E2%80%9390_Philippine_coup_attempts
LCX,
You are familiar with the Mendiola massacre and the coup attempts.
This painted Marcos successor Cory as the bad person.
The Mendiola massacre was about the farmers who demanded genuine agrarian reform.
The Coup attempts were done by the Marcos loyalists and Enrile men.
Both farming sector and Military sector went woe is me.
Left and Right, how do you balance that?
Then the accusations of kamag-anak Inc.
Where the relatives of Cojuanco-Aquino were perceived to be worse, a saying went like this : If the Marcos cronies,used shovels,the kamag-anak inc. used bull dozers.
(in terms of corruption) What took Marvis 20 years,it took Cory’s relatives less than six.
In Congress, this is where the pork started.
Commission on appointments playing the game of the generals and cabinet secretaries,etc.etc.
Then Marcos died, and they were allowed to return.
There goes my partial explanation Lance.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philippine_presidential_election,_1992
Danding Cojuanco and Imelda Marcos joined the elections.
Thanks , karl, I’m not familiar with the above you’ve posted, but I do know as far as in the mid-2000s, the name Cojuanco was synonymous with Ligawasan marsh in Mindanao.
Cojuanco is the family of Ex Pnoy’s mother.
Brother of Cory is Peping Cojuanco.
Cousin of Cory is Danding Cojuanco.
If you have time, google them, or read the links I posted. Thanks.
“Under such precarious situation, I don’t think a quasi-philosophical discourse skewing to a view of a milder version of Marcos hienous crimes adds anything to knowledge.”
chemp,
But it’s not quasi-philosophical, all this has on-the-ground utility. Only a certain portion of Filipinos are reacting to Marcos, ie. Martial Law, to plunder, to this latest burial stunt. Everyone here, including you, are racking their brain as to why not enough Filipinos care about Marcos…
this “quasi-philosophical discourse” gave us a sense of why that this, thanks to Ireneo and edgar, but also to Anton and Eduardo Maglaque (if you read those four’s memories of the Martial Law years and right prior, they actually agree).
Yeah, you can say I’m sanitizing Marcos’ legacy, but if we can agree that the telling of said legacy is already skewed on both sides, ie. over-vilifying and god-worship, then this sanitizing effort is just a means to attempt at a re-balance of both narratives. Maybe that’s how you make other Filipinos un-affected by Marcos understand.
Now you’ve already written plenty on the plunder and the economics component of all this, and I have no qualms with your points, but I do find the moralizing along with what is essentially property related crimes somewhat off-putting (now it’s coming from you, chemp, so you’re not off-putting 😉 it’s the narrative you’re espousing that’s hard to swallow in-toto).
Look there’s a lot of hidden wealth around the world, and there’s plenty of corruption everywhere, hell look at the folks heading the Olympics and FIFA, multi-national corporations, even non-profits all play the hide our wealth game. If you wanna pursue the sense of “evil” in hidden wealth, hell the Clinton Foundation would be a great case study— so too the Trump Foundation, etc.
Quiboloy in his jet planes and helicopters also.
But hidden wealth I tend to see as the game played by those who can afford to, kinda like hide and seek that old rich as well as new rich (ie. Marcos, and Al Capone) play. Yeah you can argue that public servants who play this game (after acquiring significant means of course 😉 ) are more “evil” than say CEOs or non-profits (especially religious types) who just happened to a lot of donations.
I know I’ve written about Austerity, but when it comes to Greed, it’s greed period… this we can wax quasi-philosophic all day, whether or not greed is evil. But when it comes to Violence, this subject I’m more familiar with.
Like edgar said, “There are two main aspects of the Marcos dictatorship: the economic depredation and the violent suppression of dissent.. The fiduciary stuff, I don’t think we can attribute too much evil or good, especially in the Philippines where embezzlement at high levels is on par with the course.
So let’s focus on violence vis-a-vis Marcos. First, let’s do away with non-violence, powerful men, especially in the Third World will use violence to extend their power and ensure control. So that’s our baseline. Evil IMHO is when you lose control of this power and swing it around like a broad sword, but so long as the wielder of this power possess discipline and uses it like a scalpel, there has to be some sort of attribution of Good, no?
Now I agree w/ ip (and edgar) that it’s not just Marcos, there’s a system in place a machine if you will, and Marcos just temporarily assumed the position as head… this is why when Marcos was ousted, the machine simply re-constituted, but continued unabated. I’m more sympathetic of Ireneo’s explanation that this machine is more rooted in culture and the Filipino personality , than it is some sort of criminal enterprise, again it’s the norm.
As for over-vilifying, all this I know works great for Us vs. Them, boooo for them, yaaay for us, scenarios, but in my experience when you over-vilifying, over-estimate, you tend to miss targets. I think the target here is to get more Filipinos on-board with your narrative, especially those who were not affected by Marcos directly. I know you can make the argument that all Filipinos were affected economically, but IMHO it’s too much of a stretch.
HOW do you win over those Filipinos who don’t possess this hatred for Marcos since he did not affect them directly?
So with knowledge there has to be truth, and the truth is that not all Filipinos were affected by Marcos’ violence (you have to give Marcos credit for this). And from this point, construct a better narrative in which you’re not over-vilifying… Personally I’ve not seen balanced historical opinions when it comes to Marcos, when Filipinos talk about Marcos they either hate him or love him, no in-between, I’m simply asking is there a middle ground?
Lance basically you are saying scale back on the condemnation and platitudes, the trade- off being possibility of communication with the other side. The other side being (1) Marcos supporters and (2) Edgar’s apathetic Filipinos.
As far as (1) are concerned, appeasement is simply playing into their twisted rhetoric that Marcos was indeed a great president. History have shown time and again that appeasement never works on the aggressives.
For the (2) Joe has stated the problem very well. How can the ‘good’ guys communicate to a population of needy driven by demand for immediate satisfaction only and have no interest in the promise of a future based on painstakingly building up the country. The Marcos issue is irrelevant here
“The Marcos issue is irrelevant here”
It’s irrelevant, not because they ‘re busy doing something else or they don’t care, chemp—- it’s irrelevant because it’s a difficult story to tell. Take for instance, Francis’ curb driver on the other thread. Essentially, he was saying Marcos took from the rich and gave to himself. Not quite Robin Hood, but it’s a story easily understood… and more importantly re-told easily within a taxi ride.
What could’ve Francis told that driver to effectively squash this notion of half-Robin Hood (within that same taxi ride)? Is he gonna rely on decisions argued in foreign courts to make his point? or does he tell him, Google it, you’re wrong! or tell him that he’s infected by apathy. Or that he’s an idiot? You see the onus is in the truth-teller to tell the truth, not to make the story-telling painful to hear (and take him on a guilt trip).
I’m seriously asking, could you if say you were riding with Francis attempt to dissuade this taxi driver? How?
I seriously (maybe you can chemp, so indulge me in this 😉 ) doubt it though, and hence my point that it’s probably better to prosecute Marcos’ legacy in the sphere of violence, not the secret banking and money laundering stuff (unless there’s solid evidence, no circumstantials). Like I said it’s been 30 years forchrissakes, I’m sure some sort of statute of limitation is fast catching up, on top of regular citizens eyes glazing over— because the opposing parties never made their case.
What do we have in terms of violence, in terms of character assassination type stories? I know Marcos was a womanizer , maybe that. But as evidenced by what happened to Trump, re “grab their pussies” , it didn’t stick because why now? Trump’s been in the lime light forever then suddenly, 10 or so women hold press conferences? So there are time political games don’t play out, especially when the side playing this card is guilty of the same or worst.
You guys would be more familiar with the violence stuff associated with Marcos, but like said all the banking and economic stuff is just too abstract to generate interest, kinda like that Bangladeshi heist , out of sight … out of mind. Certainly folks in Bangladesh are pissed off, but the money’s gone.
“Lance basically you are saying scale back on the condemnation and platitudes, the trade- off being possibility of communication with the other side.”
Platitudes for me is framing all this as Good vs. Evil all the time (it gets old). I know people are religious over there, but I really think, framing politics over there as Good vs. Evil, has an negative blowback effect, ie. DeLima. Make your case without invoking God (not you chemp, you’ve argued on secular terms). Similar to what happened with Trump here, I automatically became an Evil person as a Trump supporter (that or an idiot). When you make it binary, you’re essentially creating the rift inadvertently.
You don’t expand your base thus.
No, you’re not communicating to those you’ve already made up their minds, you’re communicating to those whose minds can still be won-over. Maybe you can simplify the economic case to ensure those not affected with Marcos will now care; but I say mine Marcos’ use of violence, or Bong-Bong’s character flaws or Imee’s, or Imelda’s. Pursue those threads.
Over here, those in positions in power always attempt to stoop down and mimic the “common” folks, when they want the public’s approval, so politicians are always framing all this as, ie. would you think this guy’s a good neighbor? good colleague? a guy you can drink beers with? trust him with your kids? wife? That’s the standard here, hence all these narratives are judged by people as personal litmus tests.
I’m not a PR guy, but the name of the game is to expand your base, not shrink it. 😉
Platitudes for me is framing all this as Good vs. Evil all the time (it gets old). I know people are religious over there, but I really think, framing politics over there as Good vs. Evil, has an negative blowback effect, ie. DeLima.
A very interesting remark. Generally when people frame something as good or evil, they do it as a reference to values they have lived with for years. Take the death penalty, for instance, rather than De Lima, whose case is steeped with politics, not just good versus evil. There are those who hold that the death penalty is evil because that is their interpretation of the Bible, or perhaps their reasoned belief, that we humans ought to strive to heal our damaged and not kill them. But it is the value that casts the judgment, not the person exercising it. I think you are asking people to adopt your values, which is fairly far down the morality scale toward amoral wisdom. It is a useful place to argue from, but I myself would not hold my values up as better than anyone else’s. I’d prefer to listen to them than judge them.
Joe, in this case, I’m talking about both Christian (or other Abrahamic mumbo jumbo) and binary thinking. Ethics is another issue all together, which I don’t see as platitudes, it’s a lot more complex, is why.
OK, let’s take death as penalty for example, good example by the way 😉 . That “thou shalt not kill” wasn’t absolute until Jesus came around. The Jews had a list of loopholes for that prior to Jesus. Now Jesus and the Buddha and Jinas can play absolutes, specifically both Jesus & the Buddha who never had to run anything, they were mere symbols. So again, when we play with moral absolutes, the high mark are the Jains.
So the ideal is set (Jains not Christians). But here’s the on-ground application re death penalty.
“…that we humans ought to strive to heal our damaged and not kill them.” Yeah, a very good sentiment and ideal, something the Jains do everyday, but I doubt Filipinos in general live like Jains —- the opposite I know to be true (I’ve seen street kids kicked, heard stories of servants raped, dogs run over purposely, etc.)
The reality on the ground there, confirms that life is cheap there. So this is my point re the Marcos narrative, Joe, if what’s occurring on the ground and the espoused ideal are sooooooooo far apart, how can any of this be convincing to the regular guy off the street, you I’m sure have seen the above things I’ve listed, but exponentially given the difference in time in country.
I’m not making a judgement, Joe, the premise here all along is the lack of enthusiasm, I’m merely making an observation as to why there’s such a lack of enthusiasm (and adding my 2 cents), when it comes to Marcos or the death penalty. What I think here is immaterial, in the long run (i’m not there), but that gap between ideal and reality in the Philippines (and the rest of the Third World) is real, Joe—- it’s there, no need to adopt my views. It’s a fact of life, that no one seems to be taking into account.
But the bigger point here is to figure out how to generate enthusiasm for Marcos (yeah, sure for ethical ideals as well also), I’ve offered some ideas (albeit not very popular; another interesting question is why 😉 ) but again don’t live in the clouds… bridge that gap.
Ideals provide a direction. I’m not aware of any ideal social systems. Values provide rules for groups of people to abide with to try to live harmoniously. I know of none that is perfect or absolute.
Yes, life is cheap in the Philippines. The value direction for me ought to be to aspire to make it less so, to appreciate each person within the community as precious. To work to improve our understanding of others who are different from us and break down the mistrusts and misconceptions, and to negotiate new values or rules that fit more of us harmoniously together.
On Marcos, the great weight in numbers rests with those who did not get penalized or punished under Marcos. You call it apathy, I call it ignorance. There are a good many people who did get penalized or punished. They are a minority. They see Marcos as representative of a value system they find abhorrent. You seem to me to be asking them to abide by the ignorance of the masses, and to set their values aside, even if those values are aimed at building a more harmonious, healthier, happier, more honest and productive nation. To me, you are arguing for some kind of amoral pragmatism that makes those pushing for ideals that are aimed at kindness and honesty as being disruptive.
The point you make about how to communicate with the masses is excellent. Personalizing the message. I think people should hold to their ideals, and push for them, until someone comes along to explain how a different way is better, kinder, and healthier. They ought not be amoral, and they ought not bow to ignorance.
“The value direction for me ought to be to aspire to make it less so, to appreciate each person within the community as precious. “
Joe, chempo gets it. I’m not arguing clouds and ground here again, we’ve rehashed that already. I’m simply saying know your audience, if most of your audience don’t really buy the Good vs. Evil stuff, this whole you’re ignorant stuff, find another way.
As for personalizing these stories, I’d like to hear for example Mary or karl, those who were there for the Martial Law years, what exactly happened to you—- not some foreign court cases, or stats, some article written by some ivory tower hack, etc. Like chemp’s wife’s family’s story, if nothing direct from Marcos happened, then what was the feeling during, was it like regular authoritarian regimes wherein people were in constant fear? If not, why not?
For those who left like edgar and NH (Ireneo’s described his youth organizing days, did Marcos’ police detain you? or friends/family?), what happened to friends and families. I’m reading bits and pieces on sonny’s pro-Marcos family… but again these has to be stories that can be told and re-told, that can go viral, once typed out. Can these stories be told in a single Curb taxi ride? Is it easy understood?
I’m not saying change or do it my way, Joe, just know your audience (is what I’m hammering here). Like I said, I don’t know how to expand your base, you guys do, but from my reading of all these commentaries and articles, you guys are preaching to the choir. That’s not expanding the base.
“To me, you are arguing for some kind of amoral pragmatism that makes those pushing for ideals that are aimed at kindness and honesty as being disruptive.”
NOT either/or , Joe. Just acknowledging that most people are pragmatic (if not necessarily amoral). All points of view re anti-Marcos should take that into account first. Don’t place the horse behind the buggy.
No need to do away with “values”, just understand that people’s eyes will glaze over, is all. If you insist on playing the morality game, maybe slip in the “values” inside some treat? mask it so people’s eyes don’t glaze over! 😉 Like Mary Poppins said “A spoon full of sugar makes the medicine go down, in the most delightful way”, LOL!
You know bar room brawls, they start from a bad stare or glare,here the “inuman sa kanto” (drinking in the corner) can lead to breaking bottles because of a simple disagreement even between friends.
People always assert that they are right until someone fakes compromise,but deep inside they say I know I am right.
Again the above is just an example and not necessarily applies to everyone.
You seem like a good salesman Lance,you never give in until you close a deal.
All this from just googling?
But you can not convert the converted, you said it your self.
karl, you guys don’t have to buy anything, if you noticed, you all have already agreed with many of what I’m proposing or presented , as well as offered confirmation to my hunches. Again, we (all here, in the SoH) agree more than disagree. Read all this again, we agree more than not, karl (just varying optics and vantage, i suppose)
Lance
I can see your point on pursuing the advocacy of truth taking the cues of salesmanship 101 – the right story to tell to the relevant audience. In this respect, I can accept your arguing for a milder approach. We shouldn’t sell on the features but the benefits. We would need different narratives to best suit the cognitive sets of the audience, such as some grasps data, some by emotions, others OK with just audio, some receptive to pictures, videos etc. We need to categorise the people accordingly and apply a relevant narrative.. For example, Francis’ taxi driver clicked probably because the an appropriate narrative was used?
The job seems almost impossible.
But I am at a loss when it comes to apathy. Take the case of my wife’s family. Everyone, except for the youngest, is pro-marcos. (That youngest is also into atheism – is there some conclusion to draw?). Most of the extended family are pro-marcos too judging from their FB likes. The family is middle class, graduates, high pay, 2 of them professionals working overseas. Whilst they are pro-marcos, they are not political animals.There is no discussion on politics. There are Catholics but not very religious. They just like everything Marcos and info that is anti- Marcos, they simply don’t believe. They see deLima or Leni on TV, they switch channels. Puzzled, I asked my wife, what is it about Marcos that you like. She just can’t provide any facts. Just a general idea that Marcos time was good. I said you were a baby then, how do you know. Well, mom experienced it, and she had good memories. I believe mom (despite the fact mom isnt really that knowledgeable) and the others are just noise. And she simply lives with a skewed view of Philippines that Aquino’s, LPs are the cause of the country’s problems. And no amount of data or first hand accounts can change her mind. Now don’t be mistaken, they are not boorish people. They have good family values. And I’m very sure there are families just like this. How does one bring light into closed minds like this? You just simply can’t even bring the horse to the water, talk about making it drink.
“She just can’t provide any facts. Just a general idea that Marcos time was good.”
chemp, this is what it’s all about! It’s easy to be nostalgic about something you’ve only heard some about. Very understandable. I’m sure the other component of this nostalgia is what she did live thru which is the late 80s to now. And the general notion that nothing improved, hell for many I’m sure things actually got worst.
To write them off as closed minds, is the wrong approach, chemp, if the whole point is to grow your views and take on Marcos, right? I don’t know how to grow your base, chemp, all I know is that when you call people idiots, and dim-wits, and Evil, to add apathy, you’re essentially pushing them to the opposite camp.
How do you not make people’s eyes glaze over? I don’t wanna hear that their eyes glaze over, we’re pass that now—- edgar and Ireneo have shared a great list of why’s and how’s, now it’s time to talk about what can be done.
Personalizing these anti-Marcos stories is one.
“when Filipinos talk about Marcos they either hate him or love him, no in-between, I’m simply asking is there a middle ground?”
Most Filipinos are not that politicized, some don’t even vote or are simply uninterested in what happens in the government and politics. Either they are busy in the business of surviving (for the dirt poor) or building their business empire (for the oligarchs), or for the middle class who are more interested in how to enjoy the fruits of their labor, their focus is on living it up and raise their eyebrows and noses on those who are more involved. I write from experience, when I begin talking, posting or sharing opinions of individuals whose analyses and insights impress me, they groan, “OMG, here she goes again, ano beh!”. And so they go ahead with their busy lives, entertainments, searching for what would make them happy, fulfilling their bucket lists and go with the flow in current popular perceptions without that much thought.
Middle ground?
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In a sense, everyone was affected directly.
The debt is still unpaid and there is the unnecessary political instability.
*****
The systemic effects are not seen by the people Mary Grace describes. Like billard balls who only see which billard ball hit them last, possibly pocketed them. They don’t see the white ball unless it hit them directly, much less the billard queue or the players themselves.
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Irineo, apt analogy.
*****
Thanks. What also just occurred to me was this novel we had in German Grade 12:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Man,_What_Now%3F_(novel) – by Hans Fallada..
It was written in 1932 and plays in the Berlin of those days… an ENDO story
The bookkeeper Johannes Pinneberg and his girlfriend, the sales girl Emma “Lämmchen” Mörschel, marry when they find out that she is two months pregnant. Hardly any time passes until Pinneberg is fired and must find a new job in the middle of the economic crisis.
Pinneberg’s despicable mother Mia, a nightclub hostess from Berlin, comes to the rescue by finding her son a job as a salesman in the Berlin department store Mandels. However, Pinneberg is under heavy pressure because the boss, Spannfuss, introduces a monthly quota for all salesmen to achieve, otherwise they are made redundant. This leads to fierce competition between the colleagues. As their son Horst, whom they affectionately call “Shrimp,” is born, money again becomes scarce because their health insurance payouts are delayed.
After a year Pinneberg becomes less able to work at Mandels. After many warnings about lateness, he is very behind on his monthly quota. He begs the film actor Franz Schlüter, who wanders into the shop, to buy something from him. The actor refuses and complains to the manager about Pinneberg’s behavior, and Pinneberg is promptly fired.
In November 1932, the small family illegally moves into Pinneberg’s former colleague’s summer house 40 km east of Berlin. Although Pinneberg has been unemployed for 14 months, his wife forbids him to steal coal. Instead, she darns socks and does dressmaking for local families to earn a bit. One of Pinneberg’s journeys to Berlin ends in a fiasco, as Pinneberg, with his poor appearance, is chased away from Friedrichstrasse by the police. The couple realize that good old-fashioned love is all that matters.
Fallada gives a detailed description of the living conditions of the white-collar workers of the time. He also shows the roles of trade unions, governmental institutions, and sacking in the labor market. Businesses are shown to pit people of the same class against each other and reveal everyone’s worst side.
Mary, if their eyes are glazing over, go back to the drawing board and figure out how to better tell your brand story— know your audience. 😉
“Either they are busy in the business of surviving (for the dirt poor) or building their business empire (for the oligarchs), or for the middle class who are more interested in how to enjoy the fruits of their labor,”
These are actually the best audience, Mary— don’t write them off willy-nilly, just because they are not responding. Just tell a better story . I’m not talking about copy-paste, and re-posts, people wanna hear, “this friend I knew in college…” , “when I lived there…” , “I read this really interesting, book/movie/article, that made me cry/laugh/angry, etc….” then summarize, etc. etc. you get the point. Everything has to be personal.
Calling on uncle Sonny, more than a year ago, you were very pro-Marcos. It was the discussions here at the Society that made you change your mind about him.
Our first discussion was about the debt forgiveness, and you thought that the debts should have been forgiven.
Forgive me for bringing this up, was it your grand uncle Admiral Nuval who acknowledged his war medals of Marcos that are now controversial and condidered as bogus?
You also have an activist cousin or aunt, the daughter of the admiral.
Give us the middle ground opinion,Lance is looking for.
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From my perspective, the middle ground is apathy.
*****
My Unc’s house was a divided one. He spent his days as pariah to FM’s circle and my cousin was “safely” housed at Bicutan for the rest of her “active” days. No apathy there. She served
her father through his final days at 98.
As for us “harmless” cousins, my dad managed to export us away from harm’s way.
By the time I made my first trip to Ilocos Norte in 2014, I had a chance to experience the geography and culture of the first Ilocano settlements and imagined what dreams and visions a person like FM could have hatched. The place smacked of what ancient Athens must have been like. The road from Sarrat to Manila was long and rugged one and we all know what nightmares FM gathered along the way. One man’s vision is another’s pathology, I say.
Regarding the medals statement, I can’t deny what you showed me about my uncle’s involvement. I can only plead for the context and circumstances of his actions. The people who had first hand knowledge about the authenticity were effectively silent. we as relatives were not privy to my uncle’s and cousins’ conversations on the matter.
A final word on the medals:
http://www.nytimes.com/1986/01/23/world/marcos-s-wartime-role-discredited-in-us-files.html?pagewanted=all
Thank you unc. Our discussion over here and at Irineo’s about history is really rich with knowledge. There is more to learn.
For Lance and to those interested.
Marcos Medals.
http://www.philstar.com/opinion/680306/marcos-medals-only-2-33-given-battle
http://www.philstar.com/opinion/2016/09/23/1626533/marcos-war-medals-fake-officers-files
Sorry unc,did not see your link,but here is a link about your cousin.
http://lopezlink.ph/hr-updates/hr-council/3064-freedom-fighters-steve-psinakis-and-doris-nuval.html
******
Say again. The Admiral was a supporter (who acknowledged Marcos’s bogus medals) but who became a pariah? And the daughter a non-supporter (a Bicutan detainee)?
In that case, both still occupied extremes, and no one occupied the middle ground.
So, yes, I concur there was no apathy.
****
I read on Doris Nuval,she was detained in Crame.So I guess she lived in Bicutan,Parañaque.
Neph, my uncle & cousin were the pink elephants in the living room even way after things settled down after ML. Crame, Bicutan were interchangeable identities. Maybe I can find out for sure, one day.
I see. Bicutan was not a domicile for sure now.
At least the pink elephants were dancing in the movie.
🙂 Life goes on. Relay batons are passed. PH lives on.
Lance or is it already ex Lance Corp.
I will stick to Lance because you are too young to be retired.(i think)
Thank you for your interest in the Philippines, but if you have not read the links that I posted earlier, then you have not read about the proclamation of Martial law.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proclamation_No._1081
A brief backgrounder.
I see that the current topic,shows how wikipedia is vulnerable to revisionism.
Thanks to Internet archive,we can see for our selves.
hey, just an ordinary working guy who never pass a day without reading your blog Joe. Just wanted to share something though i doubt it can add anything to the discussion. Big thanks especially to edgar for the great insights and much more to Chemrock on this one. Keep safe and more power to you all….
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LEE KUAN YEW’S REPLY TO MR. MARCOS’ STATEMENT
July 2, 2014 at 8:05am
Lee Kuan Yew’s Reply to Mr. Marcos’ Statement
Lee Kuan Yew’s statements about Marcos from his autobiography “From Third World to First: The other side of EDSA
CITIZEN Y By Yoly Villanueva-Ong (The Philippine Star) Updated February 26, 2011 12:00 AM
Every February 25, on the anniversary of EDSA1, yellow fervor never fails to get Filipinos misty-eyed. We relive that one magical moment when we proved to a world-in-awe, that a phalanx of tanks and guns is powerless against a united and resolute citizenry. Wherever People Power ignites, whether in Thailand, Egypt or Tunisia, we beam with pride, recognizing that this was our legacy.
Twenty-five anniversaries later, there’s a lump in our throat. After momentous triumph, creeps a twinge of regret like love lost. Did we squander the promise of People Power? Are we better off after staking life-and-limb to fight corruption and oppression? Will the Filipinos ever stand-tall; arms linked together, dreaming one dream?
After ending 20 years of the Marcos dictatorship, why are they back in power? If you tour the historical sites in the North, the guide gushes about the Ilocano son as the “greatest President that ever lived”. Anyone who challenges the adoration, receives a sweet smile as if saying, “Sorry but we have to say this BS!” Filipinos should be quick to forgive but long to forget. We must never allow history to be rewritten the way it is in Marcos country.
The junior Ferdinand “Bongbong” Marcos is now a Senator, flirting with brazen ambition, salivating for the 2016 Presidency. With alacrity he proclaimed, “If there was no EDSA1, if my father was allowed to pursue his plans, I believe that we would be like Singapore now”.
Let Lee Kuan Yew’s statements about Marcos from his autobiography “From Third World to First” disabuse Bongbong’s delusions.
“ It was not until January 1974 that I visited President Marcos in Manila… Marcos received me in great style… I was put up at the guest wing of Malacañang Palace in lavishly furnished rooms, valuable objects of art bought in Europe strewn all over. Our hosts were gracious, extravagant in hospitality, flamboyant.
In Bali in 1976, at the first ASEAN summit held after the fall of Saigon, I found Marcos keen to push for greater economic cooperation in ASEAN. To set the pace, Marcos and I agreed to implement a *****eral Philippines-Singapore… to promote intra-ASEAN trade…I was to discover that for him, the communiqué was the accomplishment itself; its implementation was secondary, an extra to be discussed at another conference.
He once took me on a tour of his library at Malacañang, its shelves filled with bound volumes of newspapers reporting his activities over the years since he first stood for elections. There were encyclopedia-size volumes on the history and culture of the Philippines with his name as the author. His campaign medals as an anti-Japanese guerrilla leader were displayed in glass cupboards. He was the undisputed boss of all Filipinos. Imelda had a penchant for luxury and opulence. When they visited Singapore…they came in style in two DC8’s, his and hers.
Marcos, ruling under martial law, had detained opposition leader Benigno (Ninoy) Aquino, reputed to be as charismatic and powerful a campaigner as he was. He freed Aquino and allowed him to go to the USA. As the economic situation in the Philippines deteriorated, Aquino announced his decision to return. Mrs. Marcos issued several veiled warnings. When the plane arrived at Manila Airport from Taipei in August 1983, he was shot as he descended from the aircraft…
International outrage over the killing resulted in foreign banks stopping all loans to the Philippines, which owed over US$25 billion and could not pay the interest due. This brought Marcos to the crunch. He sent his minister for trade and industry, Bobby Ongpin, to ask me for a loan of US$300-500 million to meet the interest payments. I looked him straight in the eye and said, “We will never see that money back.” Moreover, I added, everyone knew that Marcos was seriously ill and under constant medication for a wasting disease. What was needed was a strong, healthy leader, not more loans.
… In February 1984, Marcos met me in Brunei at the sultanate’s independence celebrations. He had undergone a dramatic physical change. Although less puffy than he had appeared on television, his complexion was dark as if he had been out in the sun. He was breathing hard as he spoke, his voice was soft, eyes bleary, and hair thinning… An ambulance with all the necessary equipment and a team of Filipino doctors were on standby outside his guest bungalow. Marcos spent much of the time giving me a most improbable story of how Aquino had been shot.
With medical care, Marcos dragged on. Cesar Virata met me in Singapore in January the following year… He said that Mrs. Imelda Marcos was likely to be nominated as the presidential candidate. I asked how that could be when there were other weighty candidates. Virata replied it had to do with “flow of money; she would have more money than other candidates to pay for the votes needed for nomination by the party and to win the election. He added that if she were the candidate, the opposition would put up Mrs. Cory Aquino…
The denouement came when Marcos held presidential elections which he claimed he won. Cory Aquino disputed this and launched a civil disobedience campaign…A massive show of “people power” led to a spectacular overthrow of a dictatorship. The final indignity was on 25 February 1986, when Marcos and his wife fled in USAF helicopters from Malacañang Palace and were flown to Hawaii.
…There was no reason why the Philippines should not have been one of the more successful of the ASEAN countries. In the 1950s and 1960s, it was the most developed, because America had been generous in rehabilitating the country after the war. Something was missing, a gel to hold society together. The people at the top, the elite mestizos, had the same detached attitude to the native peasants as the mestizos in their haciendas in Latin America had toward their peons. They were two different societies: Those at the top lived a life of extreme luxury and comfort while the peasants scraped a living, and in the Philippines it was a hard living… They had many children because the church discouraged birth control. The result was increasing poverty.
Something had gone seriously wrong. Millions of Filipino men and women had to leave their country for jobs abroad beneath their level of education. Filipino professionals… are as good as our own. Indeed, their architects, artists, and musicians are more artistic and creative than ours… The difference lies in the culture of the Filipino people. It is a soft, forgiving culture. Only in the Philippines could a leader like Ferdinand Marcos, who pillaged his country for over 20 years, still be considered for a national burial. Insignificant amounts of the loot have been recovered, yet his wife and children were allowed to return and engage in politics.”
The difference between Strongman Lee Kuan Yew and Dictator Ferdinand Marcos is as obvious as where Singapore and Philippines stand today. But it is a mistake to blame broken promises on the leader alone, for the followers are equally culpable. Apathy that allows abuse and corruption to go on is tantamount to abetting the crime. One good man installed into power cannot save a dysfunctional country.
It can only happen if every Filipino rolls up his sleeves and works to realize a vision. That means doing a bit more than wearing yellow and waving the flag or criticizing and calling out every weakness of government. Let us harness our energy into constructive action and be relentless advocates. Help save the environment. Demand swift justice. Do not tolerate the smallest act of corruption. Best Pinas only happens with Best Pinoys!
That is People Power.
Thanks for the kind words and most interesting, uplifting read, leo.
One!
The 1 was for Leo12M👍
1
karl: “the relatives of Cojuanco-Aquino were perceived to be worse, a saying went like this : If the Marcos cronies,used shovels,the kamag-anak inc. used bull dozers.
(in terms of corruption) What took Marvis 20 years,it took Cory’s relatives less than six.“
Joe: “My first reaction was, “you have to be kidding me!”. My second was, “well, you know, if you put Everyman in the same position, you’d probably get close to the same result 80% to 90% of the time.” Ambitious wife determined to flaunt her station, powerful man just reacting to things. Put a Cayetano or Enrile or Jose Trikedriver in the same situation, then the results would be similar. If the character of a nation is determined democratically, by the sum of the proclivities of the people, then you are right.“
karl,
Thanks for all the links, yes I am familiar with the Stolen Valor aspect of the Marcos medals and confirms what chempo’s Lee Kwan’s reading of Marcos’ character.
That Aquino ‘saying’ re Marcos’ 20 years vs. Aquino’s (Cojuangco’s) 6 years, is related to what Joe said above. I hope Joe would add his reflections on the everyman notion to what happened after Marcos, under Cory’s relatives. That is a good comparative analysis, and would definitely be worthy of an article. I hope Joe considers this… shovels and bull dozers I’m sure is a great metaphoric stretch, but I’m now curious how apt this saying is, karl.
Also I was Googling their family tree, there’s a bunch but this one had both Aquino & Cojuangco’s… were Cory and Ninoy cross-cousins? Or did the graphics folks just screwed up here:
The family trees are the family trees of Cory and Ninoy starting from their fathers.Maybe it is the hyphen thing.The only Cojuanco-Aquinos are Cory and Children.
My bulldozer-shovel metaphor are from what I read and heard, it maybe a stretch,but it depends on who you ask.My thinking is how can that be?The amount of the Nuclear plant alone is so huge, how can they top that?
You’re right, karl, they super-imposed it weird—- lousy graphics. edgar & NH could’ve done a way better job than the above 😉 .
“the relatives of Cojuangco-Aquino were perceived to be worse, a saying went like this : If the Marcos cronies,used shovels,the kamag-anak inc. used bull dozers.
(in terms of corruption) What took Marcos 20 years,it took Cory’s relatives less than six.“ – karl
I wish those perceptions could be confirmed by way of earnest investigations and formal cases filed in court, just like the actual cases against the Marcoses filed and decided already by foreign and local courts, otherwise they will be just that, perceptions which if we compare to current realities could be just black propaganda from the Marcoses and their minions with the aid of their billions still under their control, aimed at the regime which dared to overthrow them.
I am being realistic here, corrupt individuals should be punished whether they are Marcos, Aquino’s Kamag-anak Inc, Ramos, Estrada, Arroyo, or Duterte.
In much the same way, my head and my heart are questioning the support and loyalties of the Christian groups – INC, JIL, Quiboloy, etc – in the light of the simplified commandments of God – to love God above everything and everyone, and to love our neighbors as you love yourself, “for what does it profit a man if he gains the world but loses his soul in the process?”.
Mary,
I mean no disrepect to Cory,but she can not control the goings on.
But radio announcer Louie Beltran hit her daily( with the kamag-anak inc.)only to apologize later. ( For saying that she hid under a bed during the coup)
We might call Beltran and the likes of him,a paid hack or whatnot,but we judge history,not by 100 percent truth,but even a fraction of it depending on how good our judgement is.
Maybe some cases were filed, the cases against Peping are only recent. We already know the perrenial hacienda Luisita as the template of the land reform seekers.
The Sumulongs of Rizal were also powerful during Cory’s presidency.
But outside the kamag anak inc. some PCGG staff have also cases filed against them.
One cabinet secretary was accused by the late mr expose of having logging concessions,etc.
bakit logging ganyan?
*******
Log…? Ah, lag. Heh heh.
*****
thanks, karl…let’s monitor the cases you stated and those still to be filed, if there are any. There should be no sacred cows.
Peping Cojuangco and his wife Tingting have revealed themselves during his nephew’s (FPnoy) presidency. He has allied himself with the thieves (Binay, Tatad, Estrada, Arroyo?, etc.). Noy’s family owns only a very small fraction of Hacienda Luisita, I hear. They should implement the SC decision asap.
In every family, there are possible black sheep, stragglers, rebels and opportunists.
*******
PARADIGM SHIFTS – ON THE IMPOSSIBLE TASK OF PERSUASION
There has been a long discussion in this thread on how to make people see the light. The focus has been on storytelling, shaping alternative narratives.
As I see it, the issue is one of effecting a paradigm shift: How does one persuade another to adopt one’s viewpoint (which presumably is the correct one)?
Let me try to shed light on how to make people see the light.
1. First of all, I think the question – How does one persuade another to adopt one’s viewpoint? — is wrongly worded. It leads us to narrow our focus on methods of persuasion. It suggests that there are key methods to convince people of one persuasion — or of NO persuasion — to change their viewpoints. This leads us further to think of methods of propaganda, which is the opposite of our original intention. We are truthsayers, not spin doctors. Lastly, it places the onus of persuasion on us.
2. Therefore, I would suggest rephrasing the question to simply: WHAT can change a person’s viewpoint? Or WHY should a person change his viewpoint? Or HOW is a person’s viewpoint changed? By doing this, we objectify the issue and we do not see ourselves as providing the impetus for change.
3. Let me establish some assumptions.
3.1. A person’s viewpoint – how he sees an issue — is a particular instance of a person’s worldview.
3.2. A person’s worldview – how he sees the world — is the sum of his conditioning, his experiences, his thoughts and his conclusions.
3.3. As Chemrock has pointed out, a person’s viewpoint (or worldview) may not be the explicit result of all of the above. A person may have absorbed a particular viewpoint without ratiocination. The source could be from family, friends, peers, the culture or the zeitgeist.
3.4. Viewpoints and worldviews are internalized beliefs and, as such, are hard to shake or shift. It is like expecting a person to change his religion. In the past, you will recall this was done by the sword.
4. A paradigm shift, a conversion, can occur by our internal agency or by an external agency.
4.1. Internal shifts generally occur from intuitions, epiphanies, or the acting out of a sincere desire to find the truth. The first two are involuntary while the latter is voluntary. An example of an epiphany is Saul on the road to Damascus.
4.1.1. The acting out, the quest for truth, begins with an inclination and ends with either the validation or the rejection of the inclination. In the quest, one delves into all kinds of sources and testimonies. The process is one of winnowing truth from falsehood. An example is Spinoza and his life of reason.
4.1.2. In internal shifts, the onus is on the individual.
4.2. External shifts are generally triggered by persons and events.
4.2.1. The most effective didactic persons (the WHO) to initiate paradigm shifts are the persons one looks up to such as teachers, pastors, writers, and philosophers. Ironically, the best teachers are also the worst kind of people. We tend to learn more from sinners than from saints. What we learn from them is what NOT to do or to be. The Marcoses and Duterte are prime examples.
4.2.2. If we adopt the role of teacher or missionary, then the onus is upon us.
4.2.3. The most effective didactic events are horrendous ones – like wars, the Holocaust, anti-drug campaigns, and sneaky burials.
4.2.3.1. For millennials, this last has revealed the truth about the Marcoses equal to or perhaps more than any storytelling of the Marcos past (his thievery and violence) has ever done.
5. We can encourage internal paradigm shifts by teaching people to keep an open mind and providing knowledge of the tools for truth-questing. The tools would be reading, logic, skepticism, critical thinking, simulation, experimentation, meditation, and many others.
5.1. Personally, I think these methods are the most efficient way for truth to be served… because then truth is arrived at through personal realization rather than mere conditioning. With these tools, one does not need to lead the horse to water; the horse will find his way.
6. There are many elements to a paradigm shift, but there are two key ones. One is interest and the other is receptivity. If a person is not interested or has a closed mind then nothing will be able to shift him, barring an earth-shaking event. It is, as Chemrock says, an almost impossible task.
7. As I said before, events tend to happen again and again until the lessons are learned. We have not learned the lesson about wars. We have not learned the lessons about dictatorship. We have not learned the lessons about corruption and injustice.
7.1. This inability to learn is mostly due to poor education, intergenerational discontinuity of consciousness and, unlike other animals, we are not genetically imprinted with instinctive behavior from the lessons taught to our forefathers. Each generation must find its own way. To be sure, history teaches but only if we do not suffer from historical amnesia.
7.2. Will we ever learn? I think so, but slowly. The invention or discovery of a falsehood vaccine will help but this is unlikely to happen.
7.2.1. The majority of mankind might never tread the inner path. This places great responsibility on those who can.
7.2.2. Leaders must have this quality, this ability to reflect. Obama has it, and so does Merkel. PNoy had it. And, yes, Marcos had it… but he also had something else called narcissism. This is the main difference between LKY and Duterte.
7.2.3. There are incremental improvements in our state of consciousness but the process is slow. Important: Advances in personal consciousness will uplift the collective consciousness.
*****
Thanks.
-1
(And I don’t have to “wrack my brain” why I gave the score. 🙂 )
“We are truthsayers, not spin doctors. Lastly, it places the onus of persuasion on us.”
Great summation of the discussion above, edgar. And I agree wholeheartedly,
especially this, “7.2.1. The majority of mankind might never tread the inner path. This places great responsibility on those who can.”
Yes, there are external and internal ways to get to this,
but realizing that most will simply stay in the shallow end, content with it (and I don’t blame them), and clearly as someone possessing the skills to tread the inner path, as you edgar, how do you, how would you, act on this ‘great responsibility’?
Do you go it alone, reserved it only to a few, resigned to the fact that others will never be able to tread the inner path? That’s a bit exclusive IMHO— ie. only a few in the ivory tower can do this mentality (is what it sounds like) ;
hence my preference for persuasion… whether you do it your way with all the moral stuff, or my amoral proclivities, it doesn’t matter really to me, I agree with your whole post here, edgar, only difference I guess is that for me this “great responsibility” is the “onus of persuasion” (both are one and the same) because
for me persuasion is the only thing that can rectify “poor education, intergenerational discontinuity of consciousness and, unlike other animals, we are not genetically imprinted with instinctive behavior from the lessons taught to our forefathers” yeah, we might not have instincts, but we’re at the top of the food chain, because
we’ve been persuading each other all these centuries (since we left Africa), sometimes to do the wrong thing, but many times its been the right thing, hence our supremacy (thus far), but my point is the lessons are transferred mostly by influence sure, thru meditation too (the fruits of which usually gets shared with others), but mostly by individuals or groups realizing that this “great responsibility” that you’ve pointed out is persuasion.
I think the difference with us is that I don’t think that “great responsibility” you’ve outlined in 7.2.1 is exclusive, kept to be kept within a few, the onus is to share, which is synonymous with persuasion, no? 😉 Hence, the great responsibility (for those who tread the inner path) is persuasion.
Share it, don’t hoard it.
*******
LCpl_X, thank you.
Your point is well taken.
I do not think I am at the point of performing persuasions. I am still at the point of gaining clarity.
If you ask me to teach what I know, I would not know what to say.
If I have anything to say, it is about attitude and methodology, but not a specific path.
Jesus and Buddha spoke and taught of specific paths. Jesus through parables (your storytelling), and Buddha through his conceptualizations (of The Three Universal Truths, The Four Noble Truths, and The Noble Eightfold Path). And both spoke of certain values — love, compassion, loving-kindness.
It is strange but the insights I put to paper (well, on screen) are not pre-formed. They are provoked by discussions in The Society.
So I do not have a comprehensive and coherent philosophy, just glimmerings of one.
I believe it will take another 10 lives to formulate the philosophy. Then, like all teachings, it will be adopted by some but not practiced, turned into symbology that will stand for something but no one will remember what, and the world will go on as before.
*****
That’s the big wonder of the Society….it makes one write of priceless thoughts s/he does not realize s/he has until provoked.
Heh heh, snort chortle. Although I somehow think it will not be as before, and a little bit of kindness will be injected into our miserable little lives.
“I do not think I am at the point of performing persuasions. I am still at the point of gaining clarity.”
I hear ya , man. And I think this is largely the reason why most of our leaders (both here and there) are largely unwise , simply because those closest to wisdom think they are still so far away; whilst those farthest from it, think they’re there. Ironies abound.
There’s persuasions going on no doubt regardless, but largely via this process (though, he forgot violence), and as the great Zen master said, “We’ll see…”,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_C._Calhoun
( this also goes back to our old conversation about St. Origen, with sonny & karl, who cut off his nuts to get closer to the Truth , to which I say sure it may get you closer to the truth, but participation is part of all this … of all the Catholic saints he’s gotta be one of my favorites, the lessons abound within the story of that single saint,
but his balls are central to all this , the truth IMHO lies in what he did with his balls. 😉 and the choice has always been to cut ’em off or not , you see I think also that wisdom is in one’s DNA and wise men tend not to have kids )
By “participation” I mean intercourse in both sense of the word, which (if one’s not a rapist) is the whole point of persuasion (ie. why humanity persuades in general).
The closest, heavily laden term (which I only scratched the surface of, and usually used by those elements in the Philippines that come alive at night 😉 ), but both used by Visayans and Tagalogs alike over there which is related to this “persuasion” is “diskarte” , as necessary as food, water & shelter in the Philippines,
https://sites.google.com/site/diskarteblog/_/rsrc/1405044985489/config/customLogo.gif?revision=4
https://sites.google.com/site/diskarteblog/_/rsrc/1405044985489/config/customLogo.gif (let me try that again, pics not posting)
Amen that.
Thanks Edgar.
I love these “Edgar moments”.
Long live the SOH to keep “Edgar moments” coming🍾.
Edgar, you remind me of my philosophy professor’s comment on great teachers. There are those who like a floodlight illuminate broad swathes of the dark unknown. And there are those that shine a spotlight far into the night to uncover the deepest mysteries and truths. Thanks for the floodlight, my friend, and now for a spotlight to focus on on Duterte’s followers and and find out how to best make them see the light.
“and now for a spotlight to focus on on Duterte’s followers and and find out how to best make them see the light.”
caliphman, do you have any personal experiences re Martial Law or even Marcos specifically (or that of his cronies)? if not, how about close friends, family, hell even neighbors who were adversely and directly affected by Marcos and the Martial Law?
How about you , LG? I think more personal stories would make a big dent here… a collection of individual spotlights can make a floodlight, it’s all about numbers after all—- if floodlights are rare, get everyone to tell personal stories.
Lance,
Caliphman(?),Sonny,RHiro,Irineo,LG(?) and more, left during the Marcos period.
Irineo left during the 80s but he was born mid 60s do still too young to experience martial law, but he was detained overnight maybe that counts.
But you don’t have to experience cruelty to feel it, that is where the narratives if thise who lived to tell comes in,many books were published,many movies and documentaries were shown. Look at youtube and see for yourself, look at the parties,and all the extravagance, look for documentaries of abuses.
No argument from us will convince you.
karl, my point is that there’s not enough of these violence stories to hit critical mass, to generate an anti-Marcos movement, read my comment to Ireneo just now, and we’ll continue this violence as weakness thread.
Think about it, is Ireneo’s detention (where you beaten-up , Ireneo?) is the only story with the SoH that has some semblance of violence… if no personal stories , how about friends and relatives?
There’s just a loud lack of stories, karl. I bet you if you list out those stories you’ve mentioned, they’d all some how be connected to the opposition or leftist elements, which would technically validate the violence that befell upon them.
What I’m looking for is violence, but a specific type, violence applied wrongly. Parties and extravagance , not so especially because the big families in the Philippines would probably be guilty of this—- ie. when you point, 3 fingers are pointing back at you 😉 so just focus on violence in general, then cull from it
excessive and unnecessary violence.
I googled youtube martial law torture, take your pick.
——
https://www.google.com.ph/search?client=safari&hl=en-ph&q=youtube+martial+law+torture&spell=1&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjL3K-Fs-bQAhWIq5QKHdESBWsQvwUIFCgA&biw=1024&bih=704
I have an uncle,he was NPA and he was abducted several times in the 70s,80s and 90s.
1 to KG
Yes, that’s correct. I was gone by 1975. But I am aware of the atrocities through the New York Times (NYT), Time, Newsweek, US TV news, friends and family who were in the Philippines. At the time, I was not reading any Philippine newspaper online nor did I ever watch the Total Filipino Chanel in the states.
I was home in 1976, 1982, and 1985 only when Martial Law was in effect. Dark times but non-militant people went about their lives as usual. Unemployment n Inflation rates were high. But no one I personally knew was a ML victim. I only read about sudden disappearances, salvaging victims, killings through US media. No freedom of speech in the Philippines, I recall. I would have joined EDSA I, in 1986, had I been living in Manila then.
Wow! The irony of your stupid comments talking about knowledge.
10
Nice of you to visit, Jim, to educate us with the grace and thoughtfulness of so many these days who represent the human race as something less than dogs. 10
10 X infinite 10s! Goodbye.
Above score is for Jim.
mangaarap na lang tayo kayo mga patay gutom kao ba
On Wed, Nov 23, 2016 at 5:20 PM, The Society of Honor: the Philippines wrote:
> The Society of Honor posted: ” By Joe America I think the Duterte > Administration has a new enemy much stronger than the “Yellows”. It is > knowledge, an awakening of Philippine universities and students to the > offensiveness of the Marcos burial. An awareness of history, a compassion ” >