Anatomy of a dust-up
By Joe America
Reasons readers get angry
The social media debate is a hostile debate, in the main. Here are reasons why this is so:
- Readers confuse opinions with facts and try to argue against them. This invariably leads to ad hominem insults because opinions don’t change much. They are opinions.
- Readers don’t respect those who don’t think like them. This produces the divisions we see today, and the hostility.
Setting the scene for this little dust-up
I wrote an opinion on Facebook and received an irate opposing message from a gentleman I will call BNC. He has over 8,200 followers against my 5,000. We have skirmished in the past. He is a fan of President Duterte.
JoeAm’s comment
It strikes me that the best and brightest are doing a lot of duck and cover. Marawi drags on and residents suffer in camps. DSWD is doing self-promos and I have no idea what DILG is doing. The PH betrayed ASEAN and Sec Cayetano is trying to paste a happy face on it. Economic red flags are everywhere and finance people have turned apologist. Traffic is worse and no one cares. HIV epidemic and no one cares. Six billion in drugs and no one was responsible. Bird flu is infecting chickens and we are told to stay calm. The Captain is moving around doing photo shoots between naps and grumpy speeches.
I wonder when the brainwashed emotionalists will catch on. They are the dunces in this drama of dysfunction.
BNC’s comment
Bullshit.
Marawi suffers and we should blame the president? Listen to yourself. By your logic, we should blame the rise of Isis, the death of Iraq and the state of the chaos of the whole world on the United States of America. Why don’t you say that?
PH betrayed ASEAN. Jesus. You are like the PCA, Manolo. Any person with an average intelligence can understand why a court without an agency to to enforce its decision is nothing more than a idiot creating noise. You are like that. And the people who seem to agree with you are even worse. How do you expect RP to enforce the decision of the PCA? Rally the other countries of Asia to boycott products made by China? Who’s jumping on this naive bandwagon? Only more powerful countries than PRC can do that.
Economic red flags. About the only thing I find credible in your tirade. Even on this issue, we can only be alarmed as the BBB has yet to be fully rolled out.
Traffic is worse. Of course it would be worse. The cumulative effect of past neglects brought on this crisis. About half a million new vehicles were sold in 2016 alone. Without a tough legislation to tax old vehicles and the imposition of restrictive measures to curb multiple vehicles ownership, countryside dev’t, bigger and more meaningful infra spending and better road discipline, the decongestion you and I seek remains a pipe dream.
The BOC mess is being investigated. With the whole nation’s attention trained on this Customs fiasco, your tirade is proving to be a reflection of your lack of intelligence. More than finding a person to blame for this fuck up, a more effective Customs control is being worked out by Congress. If you want an instant fix, go to a circus and find a magician.
“Bird flu is infecting chickens and we are told to stay calm.” Would it be better if the government tells the public NOT TO STAY CALM?
Bobo
Parsing the objection
My comment got more likes and reactions than any posting I have ever done, about 1,200 of them so far, and several hundred shares.
But consider my comment from the perspective of someone who really likes President Duterte, either on principle or because he gets some other benefit from the deal. How insulting my remarks would read. BNC got a generous 11 likes and reactions from his posting, four of them from my ‘friends’. So although my opinion struck a chord, it was not universally liked.
My purpose in writing the message was not to criticize each item listed, but to present one over-riding idea that the Duterte Administration is not really focused on managing the country, his staff are having an increasingly hard time of it, and the masses don’t have a clue. So I spun each little detail of my ‘opinion’ in a literary (haha, almost poetic) line-up of words aimed at making that point.
BNC, on the other hand, got angry and went to the specifics and did not address the overall issue, is President Duterte on top of things, or are things running every which way for lack of attention by the President?
I chose not to engage BNC on Facebook because a chatroom debate is largely futile and generates a lot of hostility. But let me deal with the specifics here. I’ll put each of his paragraphs in bold italics, and then provide my reaction below it, without highlight.
Marawi suffers and we should blame the president? Listen to yourself. By your logic, we should blame the rise of Isis, the death of Iraq and the state of the chaos of the whole world on the United States of America. Why don’t you say that?
Well, Mamasapano suffered, and the President was blamed. He was blamed for the INC protest, for Yolanda, for any other thing that people didn’t like. And the US is frequently blamed for ISIS, point in fact. Why is that? Because the President is in charge, and the buck stops there. And President Duterte DEFINITELY was directly involved on Marawi by chasing American intelligence out and daring the Maute terrorists to burn down Marawi, which they promptly did. President Aquino never taunted Muslim rebels and he USED American resources to help find the terrorists. Score: BNC 0, JoeAm 1.
PH betrayed ASEAN. Jesus. You are like the PCA, Manolo. Any person with an average intelligence can understand why a court without an agency to to enforce its decision is nothing more than a idiot creating noise. You are like that. And the people who seem to agree with you are even worse. How do you expect RP to enforce the decision of the PCA? Rally the other countries of Asia to boycott products made by China? Who’s jumping on this naive bandwagon? Only more powerful countries than PRC can do that.
Well, I am not Manolo (MLQ3, or Manuel L. Quezon III), so BNC is obviously just spinning the popular myth among trolls that I’m a loyalist to President Aquino. But I’ll let that pass because it makes me laugh. He also used ad hominen argument in the “anyone with average intelligence” and “you are even worse” remarks. Then he goes to the same argument President Duterte recites that the Philippines cannot win any war with China, so give them what they want. He believes appeasement and giving away sea resources is the best approach, probably figuring we the PH will make up for it with economic gains and loans from China. He also argues that only more powerful countries than China can oppose them, ignoring that Viet Nam (abandoned by the PH) did oppose them at ASEAN in arguing for a legally binding, enforceable Code of Conduct. Plus he does not consider the use of alliances, the way all small countries throughout history have stood tall against marauders. I’m sorry, but BNC loses two points on this, one for ad hominem argument and one for the idea that appeasement protects sovereignty. Summary score: BNC 0, JoeAm 3.
Economic red flags. About the only thing I find credible in your tirade. Even on this issue, we can only be alarmed as the BBB has yet to be fully rolled out.
I was referring to the facts that debt is rising, investors are fleeing, BPO’s are leaving, the peso is crashing, and rating agencies are constantly referencing the political instability as a caveat to their belief that the economy will be fine. Yet martial law persists, and anger over the EJK bloodletting. The opposite of stability. But no objection, no score. Score: BNC 0, JoeAm 3.
Traffic is worse. Of course it would be worse. The cumulative effect of past neglects brought on this crisis. About half a million new vehicles were sold in 2016 alone. Without a tough legislation to tax old vehicles and the imposition of restrictive measures to curb multiple vehicles ownership, countryside dev’t, bigger and more meaningful infra spending and better road discipline, the decongestion you and I seek remains a pipe dream.
I agree that traffic solutions are being held hostage to prior agreements, and to economic growth. The only argument left for me is that the President promised a rose garden during the campaign, and has delivered weeds. The LRFTB’s suspension of UBER is squarely on President Duterte. I don’t know about the frequent train breakdowns. But I’ll give this argument to BNC. There is a lot of history that President Duterte ought not be blamed for. BNC 1, JoeAm 3.
The BOC mess is being investigated. With the whole nation’s attention trained on this Customs fiasco, your tirade is proving to be a reflection of your lack of intelligence. More than finding a person to blame for this fuck up, a more effective Customs control is being worked out by Congress. If you want an instant fix, go to a circus and find a magician.
Ad hominem that I’ll let slide. But using Congress as a scapegoat for Executive responsibility is a lousy argument. Six billion in drugs passed through Customs and no one was held to account. How strange, the passive nod by the President to this rather than a screaming rage. He kills poor people and is passive toward drug lords and Customs. BNC is only throwing smoke, and his own rage. BNC: 1, JoeAm 4.
“Bird flu is infecting chickens and we are told to stay calm.” Would it be better if the government tells the public NOT TO STAY CALM?
Well, it would be best if government were responsive, thorough, and authoritative in advising citizens about the risks. Information is coming out piecemeal. My wife, just this morning, asked if we should stop eating chicken. I really don’t know. Where are Pampanga chickens shipped? Is the virus REALLY of no worry to humans? Obviously, the ‘grass roots’ is not informed. But I’ll concede the argument, as BNC’s opposing argument was stronger, as opinion. Final score: BNC 2, JoeAm 4.
Back to the main point
I don’t see President Duterte as engaged on any projects except: (1) keeping drugs in play as a reason for authoritarian control, (2) staying in China’s good graces for personal advantage, and (3) keeping the AFP from revolting.
He is not holding DSWD and DILG to account for relief efforts in Marawi, does not care about debt, investments, peso weakness or any other economic events, is not engaged on traffic, is not riding Customs hard, and doesn’t care about HIV, bird flu, gender rights, or any other of the thousands of details that go into running a nation.
That is my opinion.
What is yours?
The Society of Honor by Joe America 
Why 2 times 0-3?
What did happen to 0-2?
🙂
I got a bonus for bearing up well under his insults.
🙂
DUST-AWAY JOE!
BNC: -10, JoeAm 10.
That is my opinion. Hahaha!
Top of the morning to you Joe and the rest of TSH. 🙂
I will take your opinion as fact.😊
Hahaha! That’s funny!
Top of the morning to you, karl! 🙂
Same to you NH! 😊
Cheers, Sir NH! Nice tabulations there!
More seriously,
I don’t see President Duterte as engaged on any projects except: (1) keeping drugs in play as a reason for authoritarian control, (2) staying in China’s good graces for personal advantage, and (3) keeping the AFP from revolting.
is a short and sweet characterization of the situation and the man!
Yes, everything seems to fit under that set of priorities, even why he is visiting Marawi. The umbrella over it all is of course the propaganda and holding the masses in awe.
God, NH my eyes are dimming now, I thought it’s draw 10 to 10 not seeing the signs. Best to see it as Negative 10 and Positive Ten. It’s really Bo Derek’s 10 to naughting. Not even UK’s Twiggy in the late 60s.
DELAYED REACTION
In her prime Bo Derek was a 10. Twiggy … come on, let’s be nice. Of course, this may be arguable to some — I am viewing this from the prism of my late 30s to early 40s. 🙂
> I don’t know about the frequent train breakdowns
We do have that one article about the complicated entanglement of MRT ownership which prevents any sort of progress.
Rogelio Singson , now working for Ayala as MRT1 manager, did improve the daily trains from more or less 450 to 545 he told on Karen Davila Headstart last week. Also the could repair trains by getting components from old factories who were already closed.
Singson would be a good president in my opinion.
He would be!
knowing a bit of her, she’s a joy to the Lord, Mr. Roger’s wife will make a great first First Lady.
That’s true. It makes almost any critic wrong.
The President of America is called POTUS. What do we call the current President of the Philippines?
PIDUT? I could come up with variations but am scared that my grandchildren would get to read them and then – where would my old wisdom authority go to?
So in the grand scheme of his campaign promises he had surrendered by saying:
* on his war on drugs = “The Philippines is a narcotic country.”
* on brown-nosing to China = “We cannot go to war with China.”
* on Traffic = “It’s the fault of the previous administrations and we still cannot solve it.”
So there goes the leader of our country who was voted into his position of power by “16 million” blind, deaf and dumb” citizens of our poor country – now heading towards perdition.
It is amusing that such a strong man is so weak, for the nation.
Pretty soon the country must brace for State of Pathology Address (SOPA) instead of SONA. 😦
Yes, for sure. It is quite amazing that the nation is actually running without a President as far as I can tell. It’s like events are controlling him rather than him managing anything. Economic rumblings are getting darker and his apologists are propping up confidence on their words, not statistics.
Off topic
Thailand’s Supreme Court is preparing to issue an arrest warrant for former Thai Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra after she failed to appear in court to hear the verdict in her two-year negligence trial on the rice pricing scheme she promised her voters and the government implemented which allegedly lead to losses to the government and some corruption.
Gee whiz, that seem to be like a crime of crossing a non-pedestrian lane, compared to the actions of a Leader hereabouts.
Hell hath no fury like a Supreme Court spurned . . .
. . . in Thailand.
*******
1. I think the general rule is: Whoever first uses an ad hominem loses the debate.
2. Personally, I would admit two — no, three — exceptions.
2.1. If the original post is blatantly prejudiced, as the UDHR enumerates, by reason of “race, color, sex, language, religion, political or other opinion, national or social origin, property, birth or other status.”
2.1.1. I have crossed out “
political or other opinion” as we are talking about opinions.2.2. If the insult is witty.
2.3. If the ad hominem description is true.
3. Caveats:
3.1. All the exceptions are hard to establish especially if they are non-contextual. Contextually, ad hominems may be established by other factors, such as tone of voice, the frequency of usage, and the history of engagement.
3.1. Some ad hominems may be expressed positively, such as “sweetie.”
4. I am in total accord with NHerrera’s scoring.
*****
Whew! I was getting worried as I was reading along.
I suppose one would deal with insults better if one reflected that they are more a reflection of the sender than the receiver. That is sometimes difficult to do, for when it hits print, there is no telling how others will take it. So I think there needs to be another layer of assessment here, the perception of others, and how they might act, upon reading an insult.
*******
I agree. It’s hard to define wit. It could be cleverness of language, the richness of allusion, or a deft swerve in optics. Much depends on several variables including the learnedness of the reader. Bilingual witticisms — like the ones Irineo is fond of — would just sail over a monolingual reader’s head.
*****
I do not suppose Presidente Duterte has read or subscribes to Edgar’s ad hominem rules. If he did, he could cleanly and correctly curse many Americans and Joeam by shouting…Puti ang ina niyo!
There is supposed to be a lot of quotes attributed to Winston Churchill that the great man never said according to Boris Johnson noted by Gordon Rayner, Chief Reporter for The Telegraph.
Mr Johnson … strikes off Churchill’s supposed put-down to George Bernard Shaw, who sent him two tickets for the opening night of one of his plays with the message that he should “bring a friend, if you have one”. Churchill is said to have replied that he could not make the first night, but would come on the second night “if there is one”.
And here is the more popular quote, Churchill supposedly did not say:
When Nancy Astor, Britain’s first female MP, told Sir Winston Churchill that: “If I were your wife I would put poison in your coffee,” Churchill famously replied: “Nancy, if I were your husband I would drink it.”
Hah, hah, hah. NHerrera. The link below isn’t about monkeys, or mice and men but about ordinary good men.
http://flavorwire.com/188138/the-30-harshest-author-on-author-insults-in-history
Those writers-authors can be rather violent with their words on fellow writers.
Among the 30 in the list, I like these though:
15. William Faulkner on Ernest Hemingway
“He has never been known to use a word that might send a reader to the dictionary.”
14. Ernest Hemingway on William Faulkner
“Poor Faulkner. Does he really think big emotions come from big words?”
12. Oscar Wilde on Alexander Pope
“There are two ways of disliking poetry; one way is to dislike it, the other is to read Pope.”
4. Mark Twain on Jane Austen (1898)
“I haven’t any right to criticize books, and I don’t do it except when I hate them. I often want to criticize Jane Austen, but her books madden me so that I can’t conceal my frenzy from the reader; and therefore I have to stop every time I begin. Every time I read ‘Pride and Prejudice,’ I want to dig her up and hit her over the skull with her own shin-bone.”
Thanks for the link, I enjoyed the read, Popoy.
Mark Twain is my idol.
Love it! I admit there is a guilty pleasure in reading about dust ups of eloquent people. Witticism never goes out of style because it is often clever and humorous.
Yes, JP, I enjoy that kind of dust-up, especially from old Winnie, whether he said it or not.
Ad bullshitem vs ad hominem. A spectator sport indeed.
🙂
From comment sector Nat. Inquirer:
Keef Riffhard 9 hours ago
Since that Kian murder and the customs mess, where are the Dumbterte diehards like RyanPoe, Music Lover, Fire Engine ma,sizr, Allen Douglas and others?
Nat Inquirer just now:
panhase Keef Riffhard • 17 minutes ago
Hi Keef, I have now several comments pending, no use of cusswords swearing or whatever. It´s no fun if it goes on like this. What´s happening to this Discuss section?
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Keef Riffhard panhase • 4 minutes ago
Just happened to me , when I tried to comment on Business is losing faith. Try to click my avatar, maybe my original comment is still there. No cussword, nothing.
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Taongbayan panhase • 10 minutes ago
You’re not alone brad…
the new owner is Dutae’s KKK, says all di ba?
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Axle Taongbayan • 9 minutes ago
Can’t vent out my anger about the PNP but somehow trolls are allowed to disseminate fake news
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Hosea Jacob panhase • 14 minutes ago
Shift to Philstar,they are more sensible out there!
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panhase Hosea Jacob • 10 minutes ago
yeah mybe I will do that. I have 5 comments for this article pending. I changed the wordings and all. Happend also yesterday to me.
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I’m not sure I’m getting the point. That the Inquirer has started censoring/filtering critical comments?
Exactly..many comments have now a “hold on” for review tag..Even without dirty words etc….
I’ll give them the benefit of the doubt. It would take a lot of courage to start censoring out for political reasons. Exactly the opposite of what they are there for.
Abi Valte on fake news about Noynoy: The only thing real is the horrible writing
Published August 25, 2017 6:06pm
The spokesperson of former President Benigno Aquino III on Friday lashed out at a fake news about her former boss, which stated Aquino was involved in a “deadly accident.”
In a Facebook post, Abigail Valte said: “The only thing that’s real from this fake news article is the horrible writing.”
https://www.facebook.com/plugins/post.php?href=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2Fabi.valte.1%2Fposts%2F10214255925331094&width=500
In the post circulating on social media, Aquino supposedly met an accident last Wednesday after attending a meeting. The former president allegedly suffered severe injuries.
“Benigno Aquino III has sustained severe injuries and has not been able to speak or shake himself but the press can not report whether he is dead till final words are received from the doctors,” the post read.
Valte was Aquino’s deputy spokesperson during his administration.
Valte assured the public that Aquino is alive and safe.
“Don’t fall for this one, folks. PNoy is alive and well,” said Valte. — Anna Felicia Bajo/RSJ, GMA News
Only a few would ever remember him being ambushed many years ago, and he had the scars to prove it.
> Is it just me? I don’t have a sense that the President is running things. Things are running without him . . . and not very well at all.
It’s more likely he has predelegated some of his tasks to his lieutenants.
Yes, but the LTFRB wanders in the woods, the BBL is on the back burner, the House wants to issue mining permits (an Executive function), the economy is tossing off danger signs, the build build build program is not moving quickly at all, AFP disagrees with the China policy and is doing its own thing with the US, Marawi residents are suffering (if we put Mar Roxas in charge we’d get horrendous complaints), and Customs is collapsing. He goes around on photo shoots and makes speeches that don’t demonstrate direction, other than drugs. Kill ’em.
And my best guess is that he’s spending more time in bed.
Jaime Fabregas is right when he was interviewed. Duterte is not in control. I don’t think he ever was. Can’t even control his mouth. LOL
“More than finding a person to blame for this fuck up, a more effective Customs control is being worked out by Congress.”
Wow! Someone believes in the Congress. The probes “in aid of legislation” have probative and enforcement values? Those who are crafting laws that are consigned to the dust bin because they are watered down to the point that they are useless? Provisions covering vital parts are deleted or made to fit so as not to step on the self-interested toes of “influencers?” Like the FOI with so many exemptions that the bill has a hollow core? Keep the faith, BNC and get a chair to hear the orchestra playing at the ship’s bow.
I’d say privatize the corrupt but revenue producing public agencies such as the BOC. Private agencies are driven by capitalism. Their profit driven system will streamline the convoluted bureaurocratic procedures that make corruption possible. It will be a win-win situation.
“It will be a win-win situation.”
Gold mine indeed, JP! Today the BOC; then the Post Office; then the Cadastral Services, many others following, heading them all at the pass; automating log jams at tax intersections even at existing inefficiencies …
(purely off-topic, JP) Do these names relate to IT: Atlassian, SAP, feature flags, LaunchDarkly, et al? Thanks much.
Yes, they are. I am sure Filipino entrepreneurs like MVP will know a thing or two about the right modernization system for each organization.
Whew … Thanks mucho again, JP. I got off the IT train at “Structured Analysis.” Friend’s son is CTO n co-founder of LaunchDarkly. What a world! 🙂
In the end it still boils down to a culture that remains corrupt to the core, sorry to say.
Can privatizing lead to favoritism towards those close to the outsourcing firm?
Joe,
Sorry, i’ve been absent of late. But i had to make time to comment for this one. 😉
You know i’m a big fan of these types of interactions, Joe. Is there a way to view the whole interaction if without facebook account? Is there a way to screen capture everything like what karl posted awhile back re funny WWII facebook feed (slash history lesson) , you should do this for all your troll interactions?
As Chief Troll here, i would’ve scored it BNC -1 : JoeAm 4 . I dinged him one negative point for waaaaay too many false analogies (one does not build a well grounded argument on false analogies, Joe.
There is a way, but it is tedious. The discussion amongst other people is really not practical as it gets lengthy with many layers.
Lance,
I did not do the screen grabbing , I just copied the link, I was trying to appease Bill, but it did not work.
He said, it was no laughing matter.
ps
Lance, you mentioned calibrating responses, sometimes I do, oftemtime I don’t.
In TSOH,one reader told me directly that I was insulted him when he asked something and I suggested something he already tried and did.
Even Joe before told me more than once, “Are you calling me old?” I think it was about MRT and walking long distances.
If I said that, I would have been joking. I am proud of my ability to wend through life adding days as if there were an unlimited supply.
I realized that after Joe, after apologizing, you are teaching us here on finding meaning, learning to sense when is joking,etc.
In short, how to take it.
🙂 And myself, too.
I hear ya, karl.
It’s hit and miss. You gotta understand too that this isn’t your normal human interaction, we’re seeing each other’s words only and trying to teaze out meanings and sub-meanings, etc.. Face to face interaction, we’re able to read more than just ours words.
I see our (TSOH) interactions on here as
Either a jazz jam session, wherein everyone’s just playing their tune, people support it, or someone else takes lead and we all go there, like jazz, back and forth—- individual instrumental virtuosity. It’s a great give and take.
Or, individually speaking, it’s all different flavours or dance stylez, like with me and you, it’s like your national dance the tinikiling wherein it’s fun but at the same time we’re trying to clip each other with various memes and videos. Me and sonny, it’s more like modern dance, very abstract, usually involving the classics and religion etc. but usually very fulfilling in the end (because of sonny i’m reading works from Nicolas of Cusa, etc.). Me and joe it’s more like Tango, there’s form and decorum, but i’m usually pulling him one way, and either he resists or he pulls me back. Me and edgar, i’d say more like the Lambada, the forbidden dance, we get hot and sweaty and there’s emotions involved. Me and NH are more like the cha-cha, safe and simple, but still very fun (we laugh at the end, all the time).
With me and Mary Grace (i know she doesn’t comment as much as before), i feel like i’m twirling her around and clapping, then I do my own moves (ala Saturday Night Fever) as she claps. I could go on and on…
But I guess my point is, don’t worry too much on stepping on other folks’ toes, karl. Let’s just enjoy and hopefully also learn a thing or two, it’s a big dance floor, we’re gonna bump and step on each others toes.
(that’s me and Mary Grace 😉 )
Lance, hold your horses: my heart, legs and knees are still able to do that John Travolta thing.
🙂
🙂 Something like each pair to its own Muse:
Terpsichore (dance), Clio (history, guitar), Erato (love, poetry), Thalia (comedy, geometry, science), Euterpe (muscal instruments, dialectics), Ourania (stars, heavens), Polymnia (diviine hymns, grammar), Melpomene (tragedy, rhetoric)
NH,
LOL! 😉 the Cha-Cha steps may seem simple but i totally know how complex and acrobatic the dance can be. I don’t doubt your moves, NH!
sonny,
So true!
To the moon, Alice – to the moon! ha ha.
Aah, Sonny: I took note of that word, the muse Thalia. You must have noted that I am partial to comedy — you must have noted my oftentimes corny jokes here; geometry — my imgur sketches; and science — on which the engineer in me uses. And a good dash of Erato. Thanks for the addition to my vocabulary.
Yes, NH. I feel good coming to TSOH watering-hole, where one can take a little load off and always enjoy listening to everyone thinking & sharing something. 🙂
I forgot the one superior Muse, Calliope – she who inspires justice & serenity.
I got that noted too — Calliope. You are right about that Muse: I greatly value justice and serenity during this later period of my life. Thanks.
In order, I will prioritize the three as Calliope, Thalia, Erato or Calliope, Erato, Thalia. Not quite settled on the first or the second sequence probably because my family have a reasonable dose of loving relationships; and so I can also indulge in my hobby.
Sonny, you have shared things more than I have shared. Not fair to you. I hope I can make it up sometime. 🙂
You have NH, believe me you have. 🙂
One last mischievous note on the Muses:
Why nine? The Muses are the daughters of that ubiquitous Lothario from Olympus and the goddess of Memory – Mnemosyne – 9 nights of “effective linkage,” the mythology says.
“Effective linkage” indeed, producing the Muses with all those nice, varied attributes, except for Melpomene (tragedy, rhetoric). I am wondering why the pair in Melpomene: tragedy and rhetoric.
Is it because one definition of rhetoric is “language designed to have a persuasive or impressive effect on its audience, but often regarded as lacking in sincerity or meaningful content” as in bombast, pomposity, magniloquence and thus the practitioner of rhetoric lead to some form of tragedy?
🙂 You as Travolta and Mary as Karen Lynn Gorney. I ‘ve stepped on a few toes while dancing, or even while walking. 😉
LCpl_X
“Mary Grace doesn’t comment as much as before…
…am still trying to wade through a personal crisis here, am on a “trying-to-survive” mode most of the time.
Hoping to come back soon, though I’m sharing and commenting a little bit on FB.
We all just miss you Mary, do not over-exert yourself. Take care and get well soon.
Thanks, Sir NH.
Get well soon Mary!
From Silent no more:
https://scontent.fmnl3-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/21034475_1382042961915559_7113540800860714924_n.jpg?oh=f7ac333e5b1dc3d186a492397ff3be0a&oe=5A1C3333
Is this true?
What does “DEDMA” mean? Thanks.
No reaction, manong. Parang walang kiber sa nangyayari ang dedma.
Some broadsheets reported that it only took about 2 minutes for PRD’s budget to be approved but I have not read anything about the details of the line items.
This is the link to Silent no more including the comments po.
*******
Non-responsive.
*****
for the comments click the comment button under the picture..it will direct you to Silent no more facebook page.
Thank you one & all. I’m still at walastik n jeproks, kasi. 🙂 So “am like dead” = dedma = no response. yes? or close enough?
In addition, it was derived from patay malisya.
Thanks, Karl. Neat pun.
Dead Malice means feigning innocence, I think it is different from how it is used.
Neph, does “dedma” qualify as a meme? (Am still wrapping my mind on this term (meme), also. Thanks.
Meme is the Filipino baby talk for sleep.😉
A meme is like repeating a message a number of times.
Dedma is more like your example jeproks,
To be more precise.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meme
For Desdma
https://mbasic.facebook.com/kamalayankonsciousness/photos/a.699612476719337.1073741834.157039484309975/705981216082463/?type=1&source=49
Dedma = malicious indifference, manifested by attitude, behavior, reaction toward a person, group or idea?
In short walang paki
Took note of all. Thank you, Karl.
There might be truth to that because the Office of the President’s budget went from P2.86B in 2016 to P20.03B in 2017, a 600% increase. P17.9B for 2018 means someone is tightening his belt in Malacanang. 🙂
https://www.rappler.com/move-ph/issues/budget-watch/145988-proposed-2017-national-budget
Congress super majority in action…
I know this of the topic but I just want to express my thoughts. I am sorry about this but please allow me to do so.
I am living in Western Australia. With the recent deaths of Kian and Corporal Rodillo I cant help but compare our police officers with the aussies. Please refer to this best example http://metro.co.uk/2017/07/20/police-officers-skull-split-into-two-with-samurai-sword-during-domestic-violence-call-6792588/… I police man was slashed on the head by a former perth boxer. The partner did not use a gun but a taser to calm the suspect. The police officer was hailed as a hero for saving to lives. But in the philippines it is a different story. No attack happened but police men are trigger happy to shoot and not thinking twice to kill. What is happening to our PNP? A hero died and a minor was deprieve of his future. Nang laban isang common na rason at palusot. Nang laban kahit hindi lumaban.
The police force has long lived on small-scale intimidation and bribes. It was easy to step up to ruthless acts. I think the cast of killers is fairly small, but they empower civilian killers, and we have a situation where a professional organization is paying the price for a leadership willing to execute.
Aye, Joe. The term resonance so darkly comes to mind.
War and Ideologies have changed. So are the alignment of countries and the size of the free world. So are the number of free peoples and those WANTING to be free. Any WORLD WAR in this millennium is for FREEDOM not for SUBJUGATION. Let there be war and IT WILL NOT BE America against the world; but countries big and small countries NOT BEHIND by but the side of America. Anything less matters little and are but totugarnatsa (to replace the term eche bucheche) of snoozers in the noodle house. Denizens of blogs and media whatevers.
Anything less is like Charlottesville, and its historic predecessor series around the world of totugarnatsa mislabeled as hate driven interest articulation and domination feared crimes against culture and transitory disturbances on peoples’ struggle to improve humanity.
In in the nooks and secluded corners of the rich and poor nations, there exists unnoticed by the world the DNA of survival of fortitude, of brain and efforts towards homeostasis for growth and greatness. In small and big schools for the youth like what you will see in this link:
sunymaritime.edu
Popoy is so proud of the little contribution of a granddaughter Gabrielle Anne as she commanded today the induction graduation of an oncoming 2017 maritime class in SUNY.
this is the link
Ah, terrific, poppy! Chip off the old block! (Emphasis on chip, not old or block). Congrats to Gabrielle!
Congrats to Gabrielle!
thanks JoeAm and Karl. Gabs microscopic though she may be she’s on the largest side of the universe when you think of its largest size of the good against its little bad side.
Same here: congratulations to you and your granddaughter Gabrielle!
not many knows there exist opportunities for civilian duties for freedom schools, like this one. somebody should pay tribute to Philippines’ own. We did train long ago in Covelandia in Cavite the officials and staff of the National Seaman’s Board. What happened to it now? Does anybody knows?
https://twitter.com/hashtag/sunymaritime?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fjoeam.com%2F2017%2F08%2F25%2Fanatomy-of-a-dust-up%2F
I haven’t reached yet reading the middle of this linked article, but I still stick to what I have written here in TSOH that Sec Mathis, the “Monk Warrior” will be a subsequent President of the United States, no ifs, no buts.
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/how-james-mattis-tried-to-explain-trump-to-the-world/ar-AAqKb1B?li=BBmkt5R&ocid=spartandhp
I reached the last sentence of the piece for a brief comment.
I SHALL NOT MAKE AN ARGUMENT AD HOMINEM. MY ARGUMENT IS AD BULLSHITEM- Richard Dawkins.
If the last three paragraphs are an argument, then that is what it is.. . bull- – – – – -.
How James Mattis Tried to Explain Trump to the World
2 / 19
The Atlantic
James Kitfield
2 hrs ago
LAST THREE PARAGRAPHS:
“ . . . .“If we escalate in Ukraine when Putin is facing upcoming elections and more dependent than ever on his tough guy credentials, it could easily change Moscow’s calculus in a dangerous way,” Dmitri Simes, a Russia expert and president of the Washington-based Center for the National Interest, told me. The more diplomatic path would be for the United States to pressure both Ukraine and Russia to honor the Minsk Agreement that was supposed to end the conflict, he said. But with the Trump administration under investigation
for potentially secret ties to Russia, Congress would likely oppose any pressure on Ukraine.
Simes also worries that, with generals so ascendant in the Trump administration, military solutions will naturally begin to take precedence over diplomatic ones. “I hear only good things about Mattis, and generals are important in terms of reassuring our allies and providing sound military strategies and advice to the president,” Simes said. “But there is a long American tradition of having civilians with strong national security credentials in these jobs, and for a good reason. As the old saying goes, war is too important to be left to the generals.”
In a week that included a new strategy for the Afghan war, a triumphant return to Iraq, and a tour of global hotspots, Mattis attempted to both reclaim the legacy of the U.S. military’s longest wars and mitigate the damage done to U.S. alliances by the administration’s “America First” foreign policy. The challenge for him and Trump’s other generals is that the epicenter of the growing instability and uncertainty they encounter overseas is increasingly the White House itself.”
Why, WHY , W H Y Y Y ?
Third to the last paragraph: That’s a fact for a people having an election history of predictable results. PRECLUDING fallibility of social science within the ambit of democracies to happen there. That a subdued and long subjugated people enjoying
modicum freedom will stay the same regardless of recent fissures that broke the empire.
Second to the last paragraph: “But there is a long American tradition of having civilians with strong national security credentials in these jobs, and for a good reason. As the old saying goes, war is too important to be left to the generals.” Is this ad hominem or ad bulshitem? Is this naivete’ or fecal matter? When US civilian Presidents demonstrated harder balls than their generals, US greatness got rock harder in the eyes of the free world. Huh? That government clerk Truman, Jack Kennedy, Reagan, Bush Papa and Junior, etc.
Last Paragraph: “The challenge for him [Mathis] and Trump’s other generals is that the epicenter of the growing instability and uncertainty they encounter overseas is increasingly the White House itself.” What about North Korea, China, Russia, Turkey, Syria, Qatar, Yemen, Iran, etc.? Isn’t this last sentence a 20-foot trailer load of bullshitem?
I find Mattis to be a rather interesting character. He is a rock stuck between hard places, generals and civilians on one hand, Trump and human rights on another. He explained the ban on transgenders something along the lines of “hold steady until civility returns”. Basically, he recognized that impertinent leadership is transitory. Keep to the mission.
@popoy
That last sentence is in reference to how Donald Duck is such a destabilizing fucktard both in domestic and international affairs.
And no, given the low popularity at this early stage of his presidency and how severely retarded the current White House occupant is, anyone associated with him – including James Mattis, however sane and rational he appears to be – will be tainted smuck in that association and is not going to be the next US president.
Oh, I personally admire someone who remains professional in the face of incredible idiocy, because someone has to do the job for the people, after all. I like Sec of Defense Lorenzana for that reason.
It is for that same reason that defense secretary Lorenzana will have no chance in hell to be the next Philippine president if and when he chose to make a run for it.
He is getting on in years. He might be a good senator (Monday’s blog).
Unless of course Duterte expands martial law coverage for the whole country, Lorenzana fakes an ambush ala Ponce Enrile and later on stages a coup against his boss and presides over a military dictatorship on the new Philippine Banana Republic.
Deja vu?
Not while the President has the backing of the people, I think.
I have sat among and listen may be for five years with 250 plus full colonels and navy captains being trained to qualify for their first star and I can objectively say much much of them have the knowledge and integrity of “professional” leaders of men and very few, so divinely predestined minuscule are corrupt devils. The names of the few are found in newspaper morgues while the names of the numerous many just fade away. NHerrera might assist the conjecture with numbers illustrating a bell distribution of the corrupt and straight mistahs and integrees.
ON THE TWO “MAD DOGS”
The media paints JKU as doing more provocative acts with the firing of 3 missiles — one of which reportedly failed during launch — in waters 250 km north-east of the country, as a response to US-SK yearly scheduled military exercise. Still, in my opinion, it is a great back-down from the much advertised JKU’s plan to fire 4 ballistic missiles in waters 30-40 km from Guam. He knows of course doing that is very risky to his health with the US’ “mad dog” warning him not to try.
NoKor dares neither engage man-to-man across the DMZ nor appear to be the nuclear game player and his bluff is being called, it seems.
Yes, KJU’s bluff on the planned missiles to Guam was called. But we can assume that his missile and nuclear warhead development will go on with its associated testing — its pace may just be slowed somewhat by the sanctions, if at all. KJU is used to having a large number of his country folks starved to death. We don’t know if more sanctions will be imposed without veto from China and or Russia. Besides, sanctions have a practical limit to avert a humanitarian crisis.
there’s news that NOKOR is now having problems FEEDING its large army. after the long march Mao Tse Tung said the army moves on its stomach, Nuclear food must be invented as accessory to nuclear arms.
While still on the subject of dust-up, here is one between the two boxers:
Floyd Mayweather Jr. defeats Conor McGregor by TKO.
But in a compliment to Mayweather, using some element of Winston Churchill’s quotes — whether correctly attributed to him or not — McGregor said:
“He’s a lot better than I thought he was.”
I am not a boxing aficionado, but Mayweather, I believe has used well his accumulated boxing experience in his 49 undefeated fights before this one. Same, in being able to use his “mouth” to advantage.
And he used the long distance ‘rope a dope’ strategy and let McGregor wear down.
Before the new blog article comes in, I just want to post this link on China by Winnie Monsod.
We are not doing a good dusting-up with China. The Administration has been dust-upped … er, lawyering for China, according to Winnie.
http://opinion.inquirer.net/106634/nagging-questions-china
Thanks for the link NHerrera, I’m always late to the party anyways 😉
And in the same vein of this article:
Q: Why did Rodrigo Duterte become President of the Philippines?
A: Because the comrades in Beijing like balimbings and doble-karas.
The PH must decide to be either a remora to the shark (or die) or the puny colored fish who consorts and thrives with the poisoned beds of anemone (or else be food as prey). Developing towards a symbiotic character is better than being parasitic.
“Q: How far do Filipinos trust China vs. America? …”
NH, partial answers to this question should be furnished by both our young Filipinos and our Filipinos who were young once (like our lifetime). I came across this scene from the movie THE GALLANT HOURS, about Adm Bull Halsey, the Rock, IMO of the USN during America’s darkest hours in the Pacific. The movie clip includes his retirement from the USN together with his Filipino stewart. This is a must-see (3:05 time) for both Filipinos and Americans, I feel.
The US Navy has now midshipmen, active ship skipper & officers, and non-coms of Filipino origins, continuing US naval traditions.