What to do about the demise of respect

Analysis and Opinion

By JoeAm

It struck me yesterday, as clear as clear can get, that we are living in an era where respect is being misplaced by distrust and knowledge is being replaced by fictions.

Even the morally good are buying into this new, dirty model.

The occasion of my awareness was a reader in twitter who accused me of being a paid troll due to my recent writings giving President Marcos credit for some ‘good’ decisions (conventional cabinet, using the arbitration win as the basis for policy, good content in speeches). Well, I struggle to remain above the political fray and I deploy certain analytical principles in looking at things (presidents are allowed to have a personality, they have better information than we do, and their own context, and they are allowed the ‘mistakes’ of doing things differently than we might do them).

I am not paid. I’m sincere and honest, but inclined now and then to interject literary devices such as satire or hyperbole to enliven the discussion.

The meaningful point is that I believe the person making the accusation is also sincere and honest and really believes I am a paid troll. And across all social media, people like him are being sincere and honest.

And wrong.

Well, so what are we to do? Well, for me, I feel a certain futility in writing into such a dirt stream where knowledge is shallow but people believe deeply that they know it all.

Think of the dirt that Leni Robredo has thrown at her for no reason other than that she speaks for decency and good works ‘against’ people and institutions that are basically indecent, and powerful. It offends them that she is so well respected.

This morning, I read a remark that authoritarian governments are seldom overthrown from within because they hold the power. Overthrow is more likely to come from outside. Well, the Marcos/Duterte government tends toward autocracy and is backed by a class of impunity and privilege that is quite impressive for its breadth, depth, and depravity. Members of the class have little appreciation of sincerity, honesty, respect, or knowledge because it undermines their power linkages.

So what to do, what to do? These perverted power linkages need to be taken down while there is still a core of decency to the Philippines, fighting to be heard through all the dirt that flies around and lodges in uninformed citizens’ minds.

As an alien, a guest here, I can’t participate in such an activity. What is required is a six-year campaign, down and dirty, advocating decency in the Philippines. Sincerity, respect, honesty, knowledge. Attached to a presidential candidate.

By down and dirty, I mean it must form new knowledge in the dirt-stream that may itself be dirty. For example, I think the opposition can blame inflation on the Marcos/Duterte government. Show that the class if impunity is failing. Hit hard, in a way that people hear.

Alas, there is no leader or structure to the opposition that can do that today.

But that is what is needed to get back on track.


Photo from The Executive Centre. https://www.executivecentre.com/en-sg/blog-article/our-guide-to-manila-philippines/

203 Responses to “What to do about the demise of respect”
  1. Micha says:

    Not a huge fan of Twitter platform as a venue for political discourse. The fact that you’re only limited by 140 alpha numeric characters meant it is sometimes a challenge to precisely articulate your views in a way that will not get misinterpreted.

    It is also clear at this point that the woundedness and division created during Marcos Senior’s regime has not yet been healed so it might be prudent to be more sensible of those who still have not, for deep personal reasons, been able to forget or forgiven.

    One of the enduring slogans right after EDSA was “never again!“. It can, I guess, be interpreted in more ways than one and I’m supposing that includes never will the country has to deal with another Marcos. The fact that we now have another Marcos to deal with is, presumably, an insult both to the spirit of EDSA and the people who earnestly fought during the dark days of dictatorship.

    That sentiment of insult cannot be parried or pacified simply by inducement of moving on. The wound is still, in many ways, fresh.

    And the Junior is, to this day, unapologetic.

    • JoeAm says:

      An excellent assessment. Indeed, wounded feelings are hard to cure. Still, one would hope there still remains the ideal that truth has merit, even if we grasp that lies have utility, and that what we really should be trying to do is figure out is which is which, and when to deploy either. Furthermore, we should advocate for a moral framework that aligns with a political framework that says knowledge matters, and how we treat one another matters. And if lies are needed to defeat perverted privilege and power, they ought to become what we do, not who we are.

    • You wondered recently why Tiglao of all people was a bit critical of Marcos.

      He was one of the 11103 recognized human rights victims during Martial Law. Some absurdities especially with him could be because the score is personal.

  2. Karl Garcia says:

    I still stand with you. You may have a more open mind with regards to BBM than me but I stand with you. You are no apologist and definitely you are no paid hack or troll!!!

  3. Joe,

    Over here , all gas pumps have these stickers of Biden saying “I did that!!!” and others of Kamala and Pelosi saying “And I helped!!!” they seem to be stickers you buy online and people are just sticking them on gas pumps, and considering everyone gases up, people are reminded that Biden equals high gas prices.

    Of course it could backfire and prices go down ,if that happens now Biden gets a win due to the stickers. so lesson is things could


    also called Blowback.

    So proceed trolling with caution.

    • So stickers may be the answer. But Filipinos don’t themselves pump their gas, nor do all Filipinos do so. so it has to be on the jeepneys or behind taxis or even at schools.

      I’m thinking about making stickers of PBBM and Xi together …

      and Xi saying “come join the SCO!” and

      PBBM saying “What’s USA gonna do?”,

      then Xi saying ” Who cares they can’t even extinguish Putin!”.

      finally, PBBM saying “I’m will join the SCO!”

      but these will be individual pieces so Filipinos can stick ’em randomly as a conversation or add to said “conversation”, like public restroom art where it just keeps on adding.

      MakeStickers dot com is one place, but theres a bunch online. cost effective too, maybe VP Leni’s daughters can do something similar? or Bam Aquino? just get stickers made, Joe.

      • OR

        (still spit balling here… )

        of Badoy saying, “I will red-tag you!”

        then Clarita Carlos, “Both Russia and China are communist!!!”

        then Badoy can retort with “I will red tag them too!”

        then Clarita Carlos claps back, “We’re joing the SCO, dummy!”

        And then all PBBM’s technocrats with individual stickers all saying,

        “We lack vision!!!”.

        my point here is you can spread the conversation and keep it going with stickers stuck everywhere, Joe, analog not digital.

    • JoeAm says:

      So Filipinos need stickers saying “Marcos did this” but we are not self-service so hard to do. But the idea is right, make it meaningful. Backfires are possible, yes.

      • yeah, I’m trying to figure out what’s most ubiquitous and is also somehow a political metric in the Philippines that all Filipinos share, I remember electricity was something that everyone complained about over there, but

        where to put that sticker, i dunno.

        Gas pumps is it for us here for sure.

        I’m thinking 50, 100, 500 or 1,000 peso bills are handled by everyone, so maybe design a stamp, those you can also custom made, like a comic strip with the historical figures saying stuff about PBBM,

        for example, Cory Aquino can say something like “Bitch better have our money!”

        then Roxas, Osmena , Quezon, etc. etc. can all chime in and say something pithy about PBBM, Joe.

        • JoeAm says:

          Yes, that should be a department in the new opposition organization. Department of Pith. Come to think about it, New Opposition is good, too, a break with the past. Or New Peoples Opposition, NPO, haha.

          • I just checked the legality of stamping bills, and its not illegal for the US, not sure Philippine peso tho’.


            “Many people assume that it’s illegal to stamp or write on paper currency, but they’re wrong! We’re not defacing U.S. currency, we’re decorating dollars! There are three things that you CANNOT do to paper currency:

            You CANNOT change the denomination — for example, you cannot add two zeros to a one dollar bill and pretend that it’s a one hundred dollar bill. That’s illegal.

            You CANNOT burn, shred, or destroy currency, rendering it unfit for circulation.

            You CANNOT advertise a business on paper currency. For example, if you own a Bagel shop, you cannot stamp “Eat at Joe’s Bagel’s” on a dollar.

            But we are putting political messages on the bills, not commercial advertisements. Because we all want these bills to stay in circulation and we’re stamping to send a message about an issue that’s important to us, it’s legal!”

  4. Juan Luna says:

    Since I’ve been called and labeled by people on all sides so many times I say just ignore it Joe. I consider ourselves pundits, observers, opinion writers or critics at most, hence, it comes with the territory. Whether the other side accusing you is sincere or not is of no moment. The thing is you let your views out there and anyone can take it or make something out of it or just completely ignore it. Apparently, you hit a nerve in what you said so the counter view and accusation.

    On the other hand, I also suspect that you are expressing surprise against people whom you have never thought of going against you thinking you share the same thinking with them before. You know what I mean? Could be those people thought that you were with them all along and felt betrayed of what you are saying lately. Do you have to explain or deny the accusation against you and tell them where you’re coming from? I don’t think so. The strategy there is, you sell, they buy, period.

    Whatever the case, you are free to express yourself and be ready to face any challenge coming from any direction.

    • JoeAm says:

      The issue is the opposition having no organized program and what I think is a fairly provocative point, that the opposition needs to get down and dirty to succeed. Work on that. The issue is not how Joe America conducts his business.

      • Juan Luna says:

        Agree, the issue is not about how you conduct your business but you expressed your view on the negative or offensive response you’re getting from Twitter because of your favorable review of Pres. BBM. I was just emphasizing what could have been the basis of those people accusing you of something you alleged to be false.

        That the opposition has no organized program is a matter of taking a deeper look to verify its veracity. Provocation and opposition go hand in hand most of the time. To be fair, the government, too, has the better means and purpose with regard to provocation. Getting down and dirty falls within the premise not only of the opposition but the incumbent as well. It’s a give and take thing if you think about it.

        And the reason why I opined further was because of what you said here.

        “Well, so what are we to do? Well, for me, I feel a certain futility in writing into such a dirt stream where knowledge is shallow but people believe deeply that they know it all.”
        – – – – – –
        It’s just a case of the other party now playing the role of the other party. What you are seeing from the opposition is no different from what their opposition was doing years or decades ago against them. The fact that you are feeling the pressure only means that the opposition is not taking things sitting down.

  5. madlanglupa says:

    We keep on being civil and defiant, even as some others in this hostile climate drop civility and start being uncouth and venomous in imitation of their (pay)masters.

    • Karl Garcia says:

      That is the problem, you can be easilly accused of being paid even if you are not.

      • kasambahay says:

        probly different modus in socmed, vlogs, etc. regardless of what and who the owner is, and if there is heavy traffic on the site at may mapakaraming followers, advertisers will flock to the site and advertise their products there. in good business, emotion is not foremost, profit is.

        so if joeam’s blog attracts advertisers of dubious breed, it’s product they’re most likely to advertise, not themselves. and they pay the going rate of advertising. the bigger the space occupied, the higher the rate.

        hence my presumption: if it can be said joeam is being paid, he’s not paid as troll, though some advertisers in his site are probly big time trollmasters in private life and can afford to pay the going rate of advertising, having accumulated lucrative and mayhap legit businesses on the sideline.

        joeam is not alone in this regard. there are teenage vloggers and socmed influencers who are already earning millions, and taxman is already hot on their heels and going after their online earning.

        again, I’m just presuming.

        • JoeAm says:

          There are no advertisers on my blog. Never have been, never will be.

          • kasambahay says:

            very good to know, thanks. still, you dont sound like a troll, dont write like a troll, and dont act like a troll, you are not troll!

            • JoeAm says:

              The term ‘troll’ has become synonymous with anyone who writes an opinion that is not aligned with ‘mine’, so on occasion, we are all trolls, some more than others. But I’m definitely not a paid troll, and am more likely to hire trolls who would simply advocate for decency and good works, under the Constitution. Anyway, thanks for recognizing that I am also not a duck. 🤣😂🤣

              • Karl Garcia says:

                Quack quack.
                When trolls have no working definition yet, I opined that we all had been trolls at one point in time.

    • JoeAm says:

      Defiance carries with it certain hostilities toward those who don’t adopt the ‘correct’ posture of hating on the President of the Philippines. My experience.

      • Then Alfred Hitchcock said something like , “You can only really do three things with movies, make them laugh, make them cry or scare them”.




        And really the only focus right now, where you can get all three reactions at once, is Global Warming, Joe.

        Forget about all the extraneous issues, just focus on climate change, PBBM wants gas/oil from Russia, climate change; PBBM wants Wall Street investors, climate change; PBBM wants this and that, again climate change.

        Badoy red tagging, who cares, climate change; Sandro being cute in Congress, who cares, climate change; PBBM vacationing, who cares, climate change…

        Just climate change, nothing else.


        Here’s something that will make you laugh, cry and get you scared at the same time, Joe:


        “Spraying sulfur in the stratosphere is not the only way of manipulating the amount of sunlight that gets to the Earth, and some say it’s not the best option.

        “Sulfur dioxide is likely not the best aerosol and is by no means the only technique for this. Cloud brightening is a very promising technique as well, for example,” Sacca told CNBC.

        Marine cloud brightening involves increasing the reflectivity of clouds that are relatively close to the surface of the ocean with techniques like spraying sea salt crystals into the air. Marine cloud brightening generally gets less attention than stratospheric aerosol injection because it affects a half dozen to a few dozen miles and would potentially only last hours to days, Parson told CNBC.

        Cirrus cloud thinning, the third category addressed in the 2021 report from the National Academies, involves thinning mid-level clouds, between 3.7 and 8.1 miles high, to allow heat to escape from the Earth’s surface. It is not technically part of the “solar geoengineering” umbrella category because it does not involve reflecting sunlight, but instead involves increasing the release of thermal radiation.”

        There are significant and well-known risks to some of these techniques — sulfur dioxide aerosol injection, in particular.

        First, spraying sulfur into the atmosphere will “mess with the ozone chemistry in a way that might delay the recovery of the ozone layer,” Parson told CNBC.

        The Montreal Protocol adopted in 1987 regulates and phases out the use of ozone depleting substances, such as hydrochlorofluorocarbons (HCFCs) which were commonly used in refrigeration and air conditioners, but that healing process is still going on.

        Also, sulfates injected into the atmosphere eventually come down as acid rain, which affects soil, water reservoirs, and local ecosystems.

        Third, the sulfur in the atmosphere forms very fine particulates that can cause respiratory illness.

        The question, then, is whether these known effects are more or less harmful than the warming they would offset.

        Yes, damaging the ozone is bad, acid deposition is bad, respiratory illness is bad, absolutely. And spraying sulfur in the stratosphere would contribute in the bad direction to all of those effects,” Parson told CNBC. “But you also have to ask, how much and relative to what?”

        The sulfur already being emitted from the burning of fossil fuels is causing environmental damage and is already killing between 10 million to 20 million people a year due to respiratory illness, said Parson. “So that’s the way we live already,” he said.

        Meanwhile, “the world is getting hotter, and there will be catastrophic impacts for many people in the world,” said Pasztor.

        “There’s already too much carbon out there. And even if you stop all emissions today, the global temperature will still be high and will remain high for hundreds of years. So, that’s why scientists are saying maybe we need something else, in addition — not instead of — but maybe in addition to everything else that is being done,” he said. “The current action/nonaction of countries collectively — we are committing millions of people to death. That’s what we’re doing.”


        Its funny, scary and makes you cry all together because essentially if you read that article, theres a good chance that Putin will save the world thru nuclear winter thus cooling the world down for us whether you like it or not.

  6. Karl Garcia says:

    Even with presidents I do not like
    If it is for the good of of many, even though unpopular, national interests trump personal opinion.
    But this bs implying that the Remulla scion is a benefit of the different tack against the drug war meaning he was not ejked is that:BS and a hit to Duterte.
    Even Duterte lets the big fish go away, so this is more of the same.
    Again on Delima, I went on record here saying that I have a debt of gratitude with Aguirre and that he is a third(?) Degree relative but that does not matter if he was used and allowed him self to he used by the powers that be.
    That so called ptb must be ignored by Marcos and Marcos should stop telling us that he would not meddle in this and that.

    • kasambahay says:

      mukhang nakarma yata si remulla. he wont drop de lima’s drug charges and now he is not to meddle in his own son’s drug charges. while delima’s is trumped up, remulla’s son is caught on the act. now, remulla knows how it is to feel to do abjectly nothing!

      • Karl Garcia says:

        All who do not want to resign will always say they serve under the pleasure of the president even after they did something unpleasant.

        • kasambahay says:

          of course, doj chief remulla will not resign for how else can he keep very close eye on his son’s drug charges, the doj chief has commandeered the front seat mismo, lol!

          para sa akin, suspicious talaga yang si remulla saying the alleged slay middleman died in bilibid nuong oct 13. dapat sinabi yan ng hepe sa bilibid.
          at dapat out of the loop na si remulla kasabisabi pa naman niya na hindi siya makikialam sa kaso! tapos, ito nakisawsaw yata.

          • kasambahay says:

            remulla has conflict of interest, that is in most people’s opinion.

            • kasambahay says:

              my very bad! slain middleman has nothing to do with remulla’s son’s drug case, very sorry. slain middle is connected to lapid’s case and not connected to remulla’s son.

              • JoeAm says:

                It’s hard to keep all the culprits straight, for sure. So many of them. Prison seems to be a good place to get killed.

              • kasambahay says:

                bilibid prison is playing dumb. prison admin have hard time ID-ing the slain villamor middleman kuno as he had several aliases and different dates of birth. kaso, across the board, his accompanying fingerprints would still be the same throughout, his accompanying mug shot should more or less be identical too as he had not plastic surgery to change his face forever!

              • Karl Garcia says:

                That movie about a hitman hired from “inside” might be more of a fact rather than fiction.

      • Karl Garcia says:

        I keep on mentioning Aguirre because it is easy to show hate on the internet but when it is close to home you do what is right but bashing a relative, friend, or acquaintance is not easy and if you say it is you are fooling no one.

        • kasambahay says:

          in legal circle, close kin ay pwedeng mag-recuse and in a way detached themselves from the case involving a relative, so court ruling is not tainted and mayhap culpable.

          • Karl Garcia says:

            I get your point but that was not my point.
            If Aguirre was not a relative and if we had no history, calling him wigire would be easy and that is only an example.

  7. Karl Garcia says:

    In the past I go ballistic here everytime RHiro insinuates that Joe is a propagandist for Roxas and Aquino. I have reason to go wacko, as if RHiro is not propagating his academic voodoo. RIP Hvrds.
    There maybe others, one I gave the PI I forgot who what when and where.
    But as to FY I am sure LCX was the recipient because of EJK.
    Bert got pissed when I kept on “trolling” Sonny and he asked if I could stop sparring with Sonny already.
    PiE even called me gago once or twice.
    One thing I can tell you I have matured here in TSOH.

    • JoeAm says:

      I think most of us have gotten broader, deeper, and wiser, and probably improved our vocabulary, haha. It’s a journey, for sure. Is Parekoy still around? He was my arch-nemesis for a time. Sir Tomas “Buddy” Gomez III counseled me to just let him be, not go down to his level. Another RIP, Sir Buddy. I met him at Gerrys Grill in Tacloban. He gave Joe Jr a replica “BSA” patch like the one Ninoy Aquino had on his jacket when he was killed. It instantly turned my son into an avid historian.

    • Yes Karl, this is where we finally grew up. 😜

      Unlike Tarantadong Kalbo where one is never sure whether his comics portray a grown man or a boy. 😁

  8. NHerrera says:


    To the Block – [Chain] – Heads of TSoH, here is an article entitled, “Former FBI Director Said Blockchain Is Easier To Trace Than Paper Money.”

    Is this fake news? Does anyone care to make a contrary comment?

    Does this portend the demise of cryptocurrency?


    • NH,

      its in the forking of chains and this notion that Bitcoin/Ethereum need to be somehow made easier for mass consumption thats key to understanding all this. for example Ethereum is now fully proof of stake as oppose to proof of work— less electricity used.

      But if you remember karl’s cheddar cheese which chempo tried to Kanye West, the question was has Bitcoin ever been hacked and karl got that cheddar cheese and chempo corrected that it has gotten hacked but Bitcoin’s design self corrects due to participation.

      So your article is correct, NH, Bitcoin and Ethereum are still holding steady its these other coins that have forked and gone farther from the originals that have tinkered its internal workings that have defied its original design.


      basically your article is saying all crypto should not deviate from the original Bitcoin (the article is not saying all crypto sucks, just that too much deviation now, but original still holds, it actually a pro-Bitcoin article):

      “There’s nothing wrong with this, but it certainly wasn’t what Satoshi intended.

      The blockchain community needs to rethink the original aims behind bitcoin and the blockchain technology. They need to ask themselves if they have truly created something better, or lost sight of the founder’s vision amid the greed and hype.”

  9. Micha says:


    “…public demands for democracy grow in unstable, reclusive, crisis-racked kingdom of Britain, a tribally divided, densely populated, drought-ravaged, hunger-stricken, flavour-starved archipelago off coast of sub-Scandinavian Europe.”

    Amazing how a former empire’s been reduced to this state. Except for the sub-Scandinavian part, that description could very well apply to our God forsaken Philippines too.

    • Micha, you had me at “warns new report from African environmentalists.” !!! LOL!!! you’re a comedian for sure , Micha. thanks for the laugh.

      • Micha says:

        You’re not a reader of irony here. Much of Africa had been once a British colony and the Brits have extracted both human slaves and natural resources from that region during imperial times. Now that wealth pillage is over, Britain is showing it can be just as vulnerable as their African counterparts to unstable leaders like Liz Truss and Boris Johnson.

        • And you’re believing the hype that the UK is done, Micha. If anything the Anglosphere will consolidate. All UK has to do is face west and Canada and the US are there (and North America just faces west again and Australia and NZ are there, thus covering half the world). Look at GDP and economic charts UK is still on top.

          No the irony is this, Micha, the Anglosphere is actually not as racist in comparison to other countries, as your Twitter friend suggests. so again your source is found wanting.

          • Micha says:

            LOL, now who’s being the clown. Much of the maladies in the western world is due in large measure to the capture of its economies and political power by a very small set of parasitic oligarchs endemic in its rigged system – a vestigial seduction coming from feudalism it was born into.

            So no, you’re just fabricating bullshit when you’re self-mirroring that Britain’s done because you can just as well say the same for Bolsonaro’s Brazil or Lungu’s Zambia. Even with such dysfunctional democracies the state does not necessarily wither away – it’s just being captured by parasites who nonetheless manage to thrive in the midst of such social woes as poverty, homelessness, drug addiction, corruption, and crime.

            • The last sentence I actually agree with, Micha.

              But this colonialists and Whites are to blame I don’t. which was the Twitter thread you shared.

              The Tausugs to this day still boast that the reason why their women are so beautiful is because when they raped and pillaged all thru out the Visayas they picked only the prettiest women to marry thus breed.

              So although I agree with you that the 1% running the world is a problem, this notion that all greed and evils only come from White colonialists I don’t agree,

              precisely because Western Europeans didn’t invent domination, Micha. its a human condition, the strong prey upon the weak. everywhere.

              Is there a better system, yeah, CBDC and MMT (and UBI). Who can birth that better system, well since only China is seriously wanting to divest from the US dollar via CBDC then I’m thinking these days,

              the SCO. all other ideologies like neoliberalism or Marxism I don’t care too much these days a none issue, just CBDC and breaking the fiat system. that is the only waaaay to destroy the 1%,

              but the irony is because of domination as human trait, any system will be subject to it. just keep that in mind. Hedging this of course is a worth while ideal, that’s where we converge.

              Just remember any CBDC will realize that Bitcoin is far superior a system and Satoshi was right. that’s where we diverge, Micha.

              But you never understood that humanity deals in domination, as a general principle. that’s a blind spot for you, Micha. Humanity dominates. period. any system has to address that basic fact, not ignore it which you’re prone to do.

              Idealist vs. realist.

              • Micha says:

                No, there’s humanity as just another genus in the animal kingdom and there’s humanity as inventor of modern civilization and modern democracies. If you keep on invoking the beastly nature of man as default explanation for all the evils and injustices he commits over others, we are never going to make progress in project civilization or towards the spiritual aspect of our being. The Darwinian method applies to the biological evolution of animals and plant species.

                Currents of modern civilization is an attempt at a break from the senseless cruelty and madness of nature.

                If we just allow the animals in us to prevail, we are going into the precipice of self-destruction as we may very well be in light of catastrophic environmental damage and climate change we inflict upon ourselves – something that is rooted in the very conquest and domination you invoke.

              • JoeAm says:

                Nicely put. Authoritarian governments are the animal in us, democracies are the intellectual in us.

              • Animals treat each other better, Micha. but they get hungry and some are just vegetarians and others carnivores, still others both . So its not really animals that suck but humans specifically. with their big minds for this and that.

                the rest of the animal kingdom don’t talk and don’t have big ideas, thus balance is attained. not man.

                Democracies can cause just as much damage as authoritarian governments, Joe, look at Iraq/Afghanistan and Ukraine, same same really.

                So it s not in the systems of gov’t, but in systems of money and economy as solution, this I agree with Micha. But don’t the both of youz hold your breath as to the ideal of mankind, theres no better nature to appeal to. focus on systems that compel them to fight their urges. not idealogies… for example,

                because of free porn online, less instances of sexual violence but also less birthrates. compel humanity to stay home and you’ll save the world.

              • JoeAm says:

                The damage is caused by conflict between authoritarian and democratic ideals, animals must be animals, not by democracies alone. Intellectuals strive to grow, they aren’t perfect. Animals strive to prove they are powerful.

              • Micha says:

                Humans occupy the totem pole of the animal kingdom. What sits us apart is the ability to divine some of the secrets of atoms and the cosmos. Human civilization is thusly anchored fundamentally on our attempt at reconciling, if you will, with our oneness with everything that is. It is from that that we can draw our hope and guidance on how to treat others fairly and morally.

                Remove that concept of civilization and we are basically lost, adrift in a cosmos that has no meaning or purpose – mere beasts destined for extinction.

              • “Animals strive to prove they are powerful.”

                I just showed you pictures where that is false, Joe. Animals don’t strive to prove anything. they just are, thus theres inherent balance in nature. Animals eat when they are hungry. the concept of power and weak means nothing to them.

                Humans conceptualize all that whether in democracies or not. that’s my point. its the ability to conceptualize that’s the problem, which only humans can do.

                As to Micha’s humans being on top, yes animals are us and we are animals, but our condition is different entirely because we can change nature, that is not good news as you think it to be, Micha. that is the reason humanity knows nothing about balance,

                precisely because humans strive to prove they are powerful. not animals.

                So in every calculus, it s the human as variable that is dominant or domineering, thus it is humans that you have to worry about, not animals. flip your world view upside down or inside out, but humanity is the problem is

                my point.

                Makes no difference if in a democracy or not.

              • Micha says:

                All animals (including sapiens in their raw pre-civilized nature) operate on Darwinian dynamics of the strong dominating the weak. This is evident whether you’re observing them on the Serengeti or in Bornean forest.

                Don’t be disingenuous, the picture you showed was that of domesticated orangutans, bears and tigers. They are not living in the wild. Their habitat are sanctuaries for orphaned species and they get feed regularly as in a zoo so they don’t behave like nature animals.

              • Karl Garcia says:

                @Micha is correct. Exceptions to the rule do not make the rule.

              • You’re wrong , Micha. here are examples from the wild (in Yellowstone and in the streets of India):

                But the point here is, whether in captivity or the wild, animals find balance. Humans even with their luxury and leisure, don’t find balance. that’s my point.

                It s humans that’s the problem, either EJK them or use technology to keep ’em inside say in the Metaverse so the rest of the world can live in peace.

                Humans are the problem that needs fixing, not the ones that will birth solutions, Micha. animals and the rest of the world already know balance.

                This is not the exception, it is the norm, otherwise whales and rhinos will have invented nuclear weapons and found ways to drill and use oil to burn. they know balance, humans no.

  10. Micha says:

    LOL, you’re just doubling down on your disingenuousness corporal . That picture doesn’t tell you anything about balance – whatever you meant by that – since you’re just obviously scouring google pictures for confirmation bias of your flawed assumptions.

    • Its a badger and a coyote that lives in the wild within Yellowstone national park, Micha. and they’ve been seen together hunting and playing. Google it.

      That monkey and dove picture is also in the wild, but birds have been documented as having imprinting as instinct which means the first thing they see when they hatch they think that it is their mother and follows it around.

      Imprinting also happens among different species, that could be the answer to the question as to why animals get along so good, so long as they are not hungry, Micha. imprinting.

      Again my point in all this is that animals know balance in nature, your idea that humans are the answers to their own problems which is themselves is more disingenuous than the point I’m making , Micha,

      which is that humans are the problem. so whatever systems of gov’t they come up with will always attempt to dominate, precisely because balance is not known to humans. its our frontal lobe that’s the problem.

      Let me pose this question to you, Micha, do whales and rhino have nuclear weapons? do they drill for oil? are they causing global warming?

      • Micha says:

        Did you ever asked that badger and coyote are not natural enemies, that is, they are not prey and predator to each other and that by cooperating they increase their chances of getting a meal? That mechanics of cooperation is also very abundant in human societies and communities so it’s not clear where you’re going with this not-so-unique trait in the animal kingdom.

        • My point is they are not dominating. Where does this happen in human societies and communities, Micha, in a utopia?

          • Name just one society and community and i’ll show you how dominating is the norm and not cooperation.

            Before you say the LA City Council, let me stop you there, read:

          • Micha says:

            Nothing could be as blind as somebody who refuse to see.

            Human cooperation is all around you corporal. It’s in workplaces, in small, medium, big communities, it’s in school organizations, it’s in the religious congregations, in health facilities, in division of labor of a manufacturing plant, it’s in the institutions of the state. How else do you think we, as a species, managed to thrive and create all that wealth without it?

            • Thru domination, Micha, you said it yourself more exploitation than balance, that’s why you snickered at the UK becoming an African nation cuz of irony was it not, that’s the start of all this was it not.

              Workplaces theres a boss and theres sexual harassment and favoritism and nepotism masked as meritocracy.

              then in school organizations theres school boards who insist on teaching intelligent design. teachers make robots of kids, its heirarchical.

              Hospitals are the worst , Micha, doctors treat nurses like slave labor, dominating, then hospitals dominating upon patients by rendering them all in debt after a couple of days stay.

              No, its not cooperation, its domination that got us where we are, Micha, remember,

              They’re the reason why you’re enjoying prosperity and progress, Micha. all domination.

              • Micha says:

                And exactly why we, who are not part of that beastly instinct, need to push back on the satanic cult of greed and selfishness embedded in a capitalist system. Tame the animal spirits in order to evolve into a higher form of spirituality and existence.

                Stop generalizing humanity because not all of us are into the greed cult. That’s your blindspot.

              • Your yammering on about utopian ideals, but you’ve not given proofs of how humanity cooperates really, Micha. name one of your favorite instances of cooperation as human community and lets examine it,

                but like I’ve said domination permeates humanity and the only difference between “lesser” animals and us is our huge frontal lobe. that’s it!!! so present a town or organization that you say is full of cooperative spirit and

                we’ll Google and examine together, I’ll show how it s not and you’ll show how it is. Whats your favorite org that you think is utopian, don’t pick some arcane org not on Google, I need to be able to Google dirt on it.

              • Micha says:

                Good thing you asked. Here’s one literal cooperative corporation with humanist communitarian spirit.

                It is the seventh-largest Spanish company in terms of asset turnover and the leading business group in the Basque Country. At the end of 2016, it employed 74,117 people in 257 companies and organizations in four areas of activity: finance, industry, retail and knowledge. By 2019, 81,507 people were employed. Mondragon cooperatives operate in accordance with the Statement on the Co-operative Identity maintained by the International Co-operative Alliance.


              • Hahahahaha… that was too easy, Micha, try again.


                “I wouldn’t hold Mondragon Corporation to a very high standard. Back in 2005-06 the company I worked in was intending to acquire Mondragon’s wind turbine business (Ecotecnia). This was finally acquired by Alstom.

                During the due diligence we saw the high level of political corruption, and terrorism financing Mondragon was involved in. Very distrubing. Once we saw this, we stopped looking at the acquisition.”

              • Micha says:

                Who is the anonymous entity making the claim corporal? You’re not making good faith argument here. Look closely. And stop being disingenuous again.

              • Micha says:

                Can you fact check the claim of that anonymous person?

              • Hold your horses, I’m showing you the secret sauce of a Google PhD, Micha, first find a random thread in some random website then verify said claim by Googling same comments and words said in random website hopefully in respectable site and literature.

              • “NEWS that Spain’s largest appliance-maker is heading for bankruptcy will not come as a complete shock in the crisis-ridden country. Yet Fagor is a special case. It is part of Mondragon, the world’s biggest group of worker-owned co-operatives. Nestled in the green hillsides of the town of the same name, in the Basque country, Mondragon has won many awards and much praise as a shining alternative to shareholder capitalism and a bastion of workplace democracy during its six decades of history.

                Now, one of the group’s key principles—of solidarity among its 110 constituent co-ops—has found its limit. Fagor has lost money for five years and has run up debts of €850m ($1.2 billion). Its sales have fallen sharply because of Spain’s property bust and low-cost competition from Asia. Even pay cuts of over 20% have not been enough to turn it around. Its factories all ceased production three weeks ago.”



                There’s a pay wall on this article. but suggests anonymous guy is correct, Micha.

              • “Since 2009, Spain’s wind sector estimates tha more than 15,000 sector jobs have been lost as a result of a central government freeze on permits for new wind projects planned for after end-2012.

                Alstom Wind’s turbine production in Spain will now be dedicated almost entirely to exports, especially to Latin America, but also Europe, North America and the Middle East.

                The draft version of Alstom Wind’s restructuring plan, presented to the European Works Forum, affects just over 35% of its Spanish workforce, currently at 1,018 people.

                The Somozas facility in the Galicia region, where the company produces electrical equipment for nacelles, will close. Its Altamira tower production factory in Zamora province in the Castile and León region will also close.

                A company spokeswoman told Windpower Monthly that “global turbine overcapacity”, combined with “national obligations for local production”, restricted export growth from Spain.

                Nevertheless, the Alstom group, which acquired Spanish turbine manufacturer Ecotècnia in 2006, plans to reinforce Alstom Wind’s global R&D and administrative headquarters in Barcelona, Spain.

                The group said it aims for its other divisions, in transport and energy, to absorb the wind division layoffs.”



                I’m thinking that anonymous dude is legit now, Micha. had Alstom been able to do proper due diligence, they probably would not be in the above predicament.

              • Micha says:

                Can you fact check the claim?

              • Micha says:

                Nope, not legit. Even the site seem dubious. What’s your way of verifying the claim?

              • here’s supporting literature, its good because its otherwise positive towards Mondragon, Micha (but supports that anonymous claim):

                View at Medium.com
                and most troubling, was the issue of international workers who are not members of the cooperatives. As with many successful firms, regardless of structure or industry, much of the growth in recent years has come from international markets, which now account for 70 percent of Mondragon sales. This has necessitated hiring new workers in those new markets. Few, if any, of these new workers have been offered membership in the cooperatives. As a consequence, they do not participate in the benefits of worker-ownership. While they are reportedly treated well they do not participate in the governance of the firm and are not eligible for many of the other unique benefits of the cooperatives.

                The most compelling reason we heard for why these international workers are not also owners is that there is not a culture of cooperatives in these foreign markets and Mondragon does not believe in, or have the capabilities for, proselytizing the cooperative form. Admittedly, it might also be against their economic interest to include more worker-owners in the confederation. But whatever the motivation, the net result is to create a set of second-class citizens on whose backs the growth of the firm now depends.

                According to our tour leader, Georgia Kelly, “You cannot impose a cooperative culture where nothing like it exists,” she said. “It takes a tremendous re-educational effort to bring people into a culture that carries the responsibilities of running a business and sharing in a democratic process. Even with businesses they have acquired in Spain, an educational process must take place before assuming people are ready to be worker-owners. And, of course, not all people want to be worker-owners.”

              • https://sunypress.edu/Books/T/The-Myth-of-Mondragon2

                “The topic—class consciousness, struggle, and cooperativism—is significant for several reasons. First, Mondragón cooperatives have been the object of much attention by social scientists, but previous work has viewed them from managers’, not workers’ perspectives. By using the perspective of workers, Kasmir not only shows that there is conflict between managers and workers in the cooperatives, but that workers in cooperatives and in private factories have not always acted together. This perspective also enables her to draw out very effectively the links between managers, the ideology of cooperativism, and Basque nationalist politics.

                “Second, the analysis of cooperatives and class in Mondragon has important broader implications about contemporary class patterns. By looking at the ideology of cooperativism in its larger political and social context at different times, Kasmir raises important questions for class analysis elsewhere.” — Frances Rothstein, Towson State University


                heres another, hinting at cooperative as more propaganda than method of management, Micha.

              • Micha says:

                Well there you go dickhead, totally lost respect for your disingenuousness. You’re just nitpicking and has no good faith intention for honest discussion – just imposing your confirmation biases so you could dominate here. Did you even try to read the wiki page of Mondragon? How does that fare in balance to the alleged claims of your anonymous source?

                Look closely at yourself dickhead. Maybe you are a huge part of the problem that you then blanket into the rest of humanity.

              • Micha says:

                It’s a worker owned cooperative enterprise, dickhead, and like all other business enterprises, there will be issues on matters of both fiscal and business decision management. That doesn’t take away the fact that cooperative enterprises is a viable project in how we go about the production of goods and services and give you a concrete example of human cooperation that you demand a few comments ago. The spirit of cooperation, allocation of resources, and fair distribution of profits is there.

                If you are simply ignoring that fundamental fact just so you could have your confirmation bias and exact a win in this discussion then I have lost total respect for you.

              • Don’t get mad, Micha, i’m showing you that Mondragon isn’t the utopia you thought it was.

                Look at how it treats non-Spanish workers, like colonialism ain’t it. Look at the French company that ended up buying that subsidiary the anonymous dude (now legit) commented on , they had to chop it up. maybe better due diligence was needed after all.

                The point is Mondragon maybe its better than most, but is still flawed, so my point your utopia does not exist, Micha, and to lash out now just means you’re wrong.

              • Micha says:

                Who’s talking about utopia dickhead? Didn’t you simply asked for example of human cooperative enterprise?

              • Yeah, one without domination. and corruption and condescension. Mondragon obviously is not what you thought, Micha. But like I said, you can pick another one. Hell, I’ll wait until you pick the right one which supports your claim.

              • Micha says:

                What’s the kind of domination being perpetrated? Who is being dominated? Who is the domineering party?

                Don’t just string these words without qualifying it, dickhead.

              • https://joeam.com/2022/10/17/what-to-do-about-the-demise-of-respect/#comment-474538 <<<<<

                keep up, Micha, you're saying domination is just the purview of a few humans, while I'm saying its all humans. not the exception but the rule.

          • According to our tour leader, Georgia Kelly, “You cannot impose a cooperative culture where nothing like it exists,” she said. “It takes a tremendous re-educational effort to bring people into a culture that carries the responsibilities of running a business and sharing in a democratic process. Even with businesses they have acquired in Spain, an educational process must take place before assuming people are ready to be worker-owners. And, of course, not all people want to be worker-owners.”


            Micha, you don’t think theres anything wrong with that statement above?

            • Micha says:

              What’s your issue with that statement, dickhead?

              • You don’t think its condescending, like the English over Africa? or of Spain then the US over the Philippines?

                you don’t see the domination inherent there?

              • Micha says:

                Who is Georgia Kelly? What’s the context of her saying that? You see, outsourcing your comments doesn’t help clarify the issues under discussion because you’re dumping all these multiple sub topics here, dickhead.

              • She ‘s a mouth piece of Mondragon, Micha. But if you read the 2 preceding paragraphs above, she’s basically summarizing Mondragon’s stance. A stance on why worker-owner status is not granted to its other int’l subsidiaries. Which I’m sure you’ll agree is a bit reminiscent of colonialism is it not?

              • Micha says:

                And she’s right, dickhead. Those are issues they have to deal with in the context of the broader population having been used to employee-employer relationship instead of co-ownership.

                But back to our main topic of human cooperation in a particular enterprise that sets the tone of it being a viable example. We could scale that up to replace the purely capitalist schema currently in place so that we might create that fair environment for human cooperation in the production of goods and services that’s not necessarily planet destroying.

                But no, in your shitty head, you’re looking at it as not pure enough and demanding a utopian example instead.

                Tired of your naive puritanism, dickhead.

              • Its the same thing, Micha, you end up at the same place, with corruption and seedy dealings and exploiting people. Sure it maybe better than others, but I stand by my point, whatever systems humans devise, it all ends up the same. because its not the systems that’s the problem, its the humans that’s the problem. because they dominate, that’s their nature. as single individuals and as a group.

              • Micha says:

                Well then if that’s the case, we won’t be able to create a space for your naive idealism.

                If the whole of humanity is the problem, what do you plan to do with them?

              • I already proposed two solutions, either EJK them like 80 to 90% general population then ensure 80% of the 1% that controls 35% of wealth. with preference towards half this and that folks, like Joe jr. ensuring more diversity in the next breeding populations.

                Or we can go with UBI and send everyone into the Metaverse, I’ve already pointed out that sex crimes and birth rates have gone drastically down due to online porn, so if we just sequester everyone into the Metaverse, that should be better than EJK’ing them, Micha. more humane.

              • Micha says:

                A sociopathic mass murderer.

                Are you affiliated with your local neo-Nazis chapter already?

              • Micha, I just said the better option was sequestering them to the Metaverse! and I didn’t mention anything about race, in fact I stressed mixed race should be given preferential treatment.

              • Micha says:

                And you think that “sequestering” billions of people into whatever crazy Metaverse you’re babbling about is humane?

                That’s not much different in form from the Nazi’s method of gas chamber instead of direct firing squad.

              • With UBI and Metaverse, it s gonna be 100% voluntary, Micha, eg. online porn equals less sexual violence and lower birthrate. Porn being just a small percentage, all other activities will be done in the Metaverse. so any policy should focus on this, sequestering humans which we actually did during COVID19 lock-downs, only there was no metaverse to entice people with, and no UBI from which they can do Robinhood micro investments and online gambling as well. Sequestering has been done, Micha.

              • Micha says:

                Covid lockdowns were mandated by state authorities, it’s not voluntary.

                Sequestering denotes use of forceful authority, it’s cannot be voluntary.

                It’s social control denoting domination.

                What have you been smoking?

              • sequester (v.)
                late 14c., sequestren, transitive, “remove (something), set aside; quarantine, isolate (someone); excommunicate;” also intransitive, “separate oneself from,” from Old French sequestrer (14c.) and directly from Late Latin sequestrare “to place in safekeeping,” from Latin sequester “trustee, mediator,” noun use of an adjective meaning “intermediate,” which probably is related to sequi “to follow” (from PIE root *sekw- (1) “to follow”).


                Micha, again if there is UBI and policy to support such sequestration, then the state doesn’t have to force or mandate anything. Again, if online porn can result in less sexual violence and less births, we already know that voluntary sequestration works, right? I’m simply saying scale it up by funding the Metaverse and UBI. this can be done via MMT and CBDC, Micha.

                it’s sound, we can see the effects of online porn, I’m simply saying follow the science and get people to spend more time indoors. thus out of the way, thus burning less carbon and causing more trash to fill. more importantly not procreating. cuz humans again are the problem, Micha.

  11. Juna Luna says:

    “…Western Europeans didn’t invent domination, Micha. its a human condition, the strong prey upon the weak. Everywhere.” – LCpl
    “But you never understood that humanity deals in domination…Humanity dominates. period.” – LCpl
    – – – – – –
    I have to raise the roof there for got it right. Human domination has been with us since creation. It is what happens when people or groups of people interact that produces a pecking order. Hence, we have the alpha (a dominant person or their behavior, especially with respect to socially aggressive, hyper-masculine men) and beta (one who is seen as passive, subservient, weak, and effeminate). Domination sets that kind of hierarchy among humans.

    “Animals treat each other better…but they get hungry and some are just vegetarians and others carnivores, still others both . So its not really animals that suck but humans specifically.” – LCpl
    – – – – – –
    Ooops! You somewhat sabotaged the above quoted statements of yours by making this conflicting one. Innately, animals don’t treat each other better without human intervention. They are animals, and unlike humans, their first and last instinct is to dominate. No need to repeat what others said about animals in confinement or in wild settings for they are really vastly different from humans. One proof? Humans occasionally become animals when they commit beastly acts. Animals are always animals. They only know one language: to dominate.

    • “Innately, animals don’t treat each other better without human intervention.”

      That coyote and badger, Juan, is without human intervention. Granted less study has been done on this subject, but we have enough photos and videos of this stuff happening that we can say with certainty it occurs more often than not. Interspecies cooperation. meaning not eating each other.

      I can undestand why karl and Joe thinking this idea is foreign cuz both are raised as man over animals Christian worldview; but I surmise you and Micha are similar in that humanist view pervades your worldview, not the same as Biblical thinking but also of man over the rest of the animal kingdom.

      So the idea that man dominates but animal simply aims to survive is foreign. But only man dominates, it is distinct to mankind, Juan.

      Let me ask you this, Juan, have you ever witnessed lions and tigers raising cattle en masse? no! they eat when hungry and chill and hang when full, that is balance, or a portion of the idea of balance found in the rest of nature , but not in mankind.

      you know this as “symbiotic”, but same same as all photos above really:

      • Micha says:

        Yes corporal, symbiotic relationship is a well known phenomena among disparate animal species up to and including humans. Nothing new there. What’s your point?

        • My point, and I might be repeating myself, is that animals know balance, while humans know only to dominate. and I propose that maybe our frontal lobes are to blame for everything, from nukes to global warming.

          But symbiotic relationship is same same as interspecies cooperation. whether in the wild or in captivity it is same same.

          This is the part where you say, cows also cause global warming, LCPL_X! they fart a ton of carbon methane gases into the atmosphere. actually, that’s a trap, cuz I’ll simply say that ‘s man-made, Micha!!! 😉 cattle is a human invention.

          • Juan Luna says:

            My point, and I might be repeating myself, is that animals know balance, while humans know only to dominate. – LCpl
            – – – – – – –
            And I’m afraid you are repeating an erroneous observation, my friend. Animals know nothing about balance. All they know is when, what and where to get their next meal.

            • They don’t have to know it as an intellectual exercise, Juan, they simply have to do it, meaning not have cattle, not become sedentary make towns and cities, not create systems of domination to rule those towns and cities, then eventually cars, nukes, transistors and global warming.

          • Micha says:

            You’re just making sweeping generalization there because not all humans, very obviously, are into domination game. Large numbers of us are still instinctively drawn to the concept of community and society and cooperation – of treating each other fairly and equitably. You mistake a few numbers of greedy sociopaths like the CEOs of Chevron and AIG, and Goldman Sachs, and the owners of Walmart as representative of humanity. They are not. It’s precisely these kind of people that we need to civilize and tame the beasts in them.

            Second of all, the very obvious reason lower forms of animals like your favorite raccoons and badgers and coyotes are not into the earth destroying domination game is because they have no ability to do so. If they have, a few of them could very well have done so too.

            • “Large numbers of us are still instinctively drawn to the concept of community and society and cooperation – of treating each other fairly and equitably. “

              That’s a statistical claim, where’s your proof , Micha?

              “because they have no ability to do so. If they have, a few of them could very well have done so too.”

              Okay, so how did we start then, Micha?

              • Micha says:

                Just look around you corporal, look at the immediate people you know, your neighbors, etc. How many of them actually want to get into your earth destroying zero sum total domination game?

              • I can tell you two of my neighbors drive big GMC trucks that guzzle gas, thus destroying the atmosphere; i also have some neighbors who give to a few homeless people but they take selfie of themselves doing so, all the stuff they give to the homeless, blankets food drinks all just become trash a few days later, blown by the wind into traffic, maybe not domination per se was active in their thinking but thru selfies we can surmise it was their holier than thou act that created unnecessary trash on the streets. a form of domination holier than thou, moral domination.

                So, i can go on and on, but I’ll just repeat your point here:

                “because they have no ability to do so. If they have, a few of them could very well have done so too.” But they are participating in the domination game of destroying nature, Micha. willfully or not. good intentions or not.

              • Micha says:

                In other words corporal, those people you know are not exactly into zero sum total domination game. End of story.

                Stop generalizing.

              • They are participating , Micha. only difference is “they have no ability to do so”. but if they with no ability to do so, but are already showing signs of neglect and good intentions leading to hell, make them win the lottery, and we’ll see it then. I’m confident we’ll see it.

              • Micha says:

                Participating in what?

              • In global domination, Micha!!! the subject of discussion, eg. humans dominate as a general rule, not the exception. They go against the balance of nature.

              • Micha says:

                Domination of what? Don’t just string these words without qualifying it, dickhead.

              • When you chose a bigger gas guzzling truck/SUV over lesser ones, AND when you chose to participate in public illegal dumbing which is what happens when you give to the homeless down the street, instead of helping said homeless off the street,

                all those actions contribute to dominating nature , Micha. They may not be much when compared to the corporations and governments doing the same thing but just scaled up and bigger, but if you simply give them the funds,

                they will continue to do so, just bigger and scaled up. thus domination, Micha, is general not the exception. same same, same spectrum of what we are discussing, dis balance not living within natural order, but living greedily above it, that is human domination, and Juan agrees, that it is unnatural.

                Because it organizes to scale up destruction (before it was merely exploitation), now via global warming total destruction, that’s the difference w/ human domination, its like Mordor.

              • Micha says:

                Having SUV’s that they can afford to own is not domination. It’s useful tool for commuting. If you’re seeing domination in every aspect of normal human activity, then I guess it’s safe to say you’re a domination freak.

                And Christ, why is extending help to a homeless person a form of domination? Gone total wacko?

              • These are small choices that add up, Micha.

                What is the practicality of communing in a GMC Yukon? none.

                What is the practicality of giving items that become trash to homeless? none.

                Smaller car is more practical; Not giving items to be then illegally dumped is better, and even better is demanding the city or county gov’t take them off the street and into a shelter is more humanitarian.

                All these decisions, Micha, if you notice there are better choices to make, but humans always choose wrongly, and the fact that you can’t discern is problematic, since you’re always talking about a better world this and better humans that, etc. etc.

              • Micha says:

                And there you go again generalizing the whole of humanity for the decisions of the few.

                What you need to do is question the tenets and schema of our capitalist system itself which enables those behavior and maybe take a second look at alternatives on offer like democratic socialism which is more rooted in the idea of community and cooperation.

                There are voices out there that is critical of the capitalist system as having been the main culprit for all the present woes you see, so instead of indicting humanity as a whole, I suggest you too should begin questioning the economic system currently in place and what we might possibly do right if we introduce a new economics of doing things.

              • Micha, you just defended SUVs as commute cars and illegal dumping as helping. Now you wanna fix the economic system, lets just start first by figure out why you thought SUVs as commute cars and illegal dumping into the streets are acceptable. from there we can expand and figure out this economic capitalist system. because it sure sounds to me like you’re a capitalist.

              • Micha says:

                Not defending SUV’s. I’m defending your neighbor’s right to own an SUV. Huge difference.

                He’s merely using a tool of convenience that’s available for him and his family to own. Nothing wrong with that.

              • Yeah, it conveniently guzzles gas, fast tracking global warming, Micha.

                It’s the same thing. You’re condoning something that should not be condoned.

              • Micha says:

                Well then, if the state recognizes the existential threat of global warming, the solution is to regulate the manufacture of those guzzlers and maybe mandate the use of electric cars or some other alternatives instead. But your neighbor has every right to purchase that SUV as long as it is available and he can legally afford it.

                See the big picture in the usefulness and efficacy of state intervention, not just your neighbor’s garage.

              • Its a demand side problem , Micha. which is generated by a human first, then supplied by companies.

              • Micha says:

                No, if there are no guzzlers available in the market because the state declares its sale or manufacture unlawful in light of global warming, then your neighbor don’t have SUV to own. He will have to settle for a hybrid or a full electric. Make sense?

              • And the car companies will just slide and grease the legislators and governors and such, Micha. just like your Mondragon, see how that works. domination, you gotta account for it.

                LA City Council, Mondragon, Car industry, same game all the time, Micha. grease and slide.

              • Micha says:

                You’re just underestimating the power of the state in regulating car companies because you’re all too marinated in the schema of neoliberal bonanza and the freedumb cult of white English speaking racists like Donald Trump and his sociopathic followers.

              • You don’t think politicians are bought day in day out, Micha? You don’t think it happens in the US as well as in the Philippines as well as every where?

      • Juan Luna says:

        That coyote and badger, Juan, is without human intervention. – LCpl
        – – – – – –
        Well, it’s like saying you can always walk side by side with a lion you met from the wild. Remember the case of Siegfried and Roy? I’m sure you do.

        But only man dominates, it is distinct to mankind, Juan.
        – – – – – –
        I agree to a certain extent but, unlike animals, we do not only dominate we also create, we build and we plan. Human domination creates order or system that arranges the kind of hierarchy we want in our society. And out of that hierarchy we develop a system of connection or cooperation from top to bottom.

        • “Human domination creates order or system that arranges the kind of hierarchy we want in our society.”

          Okay, at least now we’re agreeing, Juan.

          But you’re wrong about Siegfried and Roy,


          “Siegfried and Roy welcomed ET into their Las Vegas home 11 years after the tiger attack that left Roy partially paralyzed.

          “I got a stroke and I fell down, and I see these blue eyes staring looking at me,” said Roy. “I was like, ‘What now? What happened?'”

          “He picked me up by the neck and got me to the side so he’d know I’d be safe — like a mother with a cub. He took care of me.”

          Roy told us that had Mantecore not severed his artery to relieve the blood pressure, he could have gone brain dead.

          • Juan Luna says:

            I don’t expect Roy to say otherwise. It’s family, it’s the children. You don’t bad-mouth them in public especially if they’re bring the beef home, literally and figuratively. Roy tried to dominate Mantecore, as part of the business act, but like we have been saying all along, animals know of only one language and Mantecore dominates back, fatally.

            • that’s your interpretation, Juan, i tend to side with the expert trainer of tigers and lions, but lets entertain your interpretation of events, then why didn’t the tiger simply bite harder thus killing Roy, Juan?

              • Juan Luna says:

                that’s your interpretation, Juan, i tend to side with the expert trainer of tigers and lions, but lets entertain your interpretation of events, then why didn’t the tiger simply bite harder thus killing Roy, Juan? – LCpl
                – – – – – –
                I think Roy is the one interpreting incorrectly as to what happened between him and his very dear tiger. We saw and know that the lion went off script. Regardless of the impact of the bites, the fact that the storyline was not followed and worse a violent domination has been committed by an animal tells the real story of that unfortunate event.

                Let me ask you a question my friend, are you solve to the idea that when it comes to domination people are worse than animals?

                There are layers of qualification on that question but let me share my point of view about it. Dominance plays a major part in our existence, however, animals and humans utilizes dominance on a contrasting level. Animals do it for survival and sustenance, humans do it for order and system which involves the method of control towards peaceful co-existence in most cases. Both obsesses dominance but with opposing purposes, one to support life and existence, period. The other to strengthen ties and impose cohesive structure or maintain a solid organization.

              • I do agree that lesser animals use dominance differently than how humans use it, though humans can use it just like lesser animals, eg. like when getting robbed, domestic violence, EJK’ed or in prison or even the military.

                But I don’t share yours and Micha’s thoughts that dominations in humanity begets better things, maybe there are some good but mostly its bad, organizing to better exploite others and resources for example is the norm, which seems the same thing Mondragon Co-op is doing above (Micha), you can paint lipstick on a pig but its still a pig, Juan.

                I might be painting an overly positive picture of animal cooperation and balance, but I do know they have to eat, but they don’t eat their friends is my point, this is either due to imprinting or even that animals feel loyalty or love, eg. the coyote and badger are playing, Juan, not just hunting. So was the tiger saving Roy i dunno, was it just throwing a tantrum on stage, maybe,

                but we know for sure the tiger wasn’t feeding nor attempting to kill Roy which he could’ve done easily.

                So even if you watch videos of said Roy vs. tiger “attack”, Roy’s interpretation of events, does hold, watch:

  12. Oh, and before Joe gets mad, to connect all this to the current blog, its also (and more importantly) the demise of respect for nature, the world and in our dealings with other animals, not just humans. That maybe we’re the problem, is my point.

    karl knows this movie reference:

    • Micha says:

      Given your profile as a racist, sociopathic, pro mass murdering Anglophile neo-Nazi, I don’t think you should all be that worried about the demise of respect for anything hereabouts.

      • racist? what’s your proof? I did say I prefer mixed raced folks. that kinda negates it, no, Micha?

        sociopath? I am a bit of a misanthrope, but sociopath is stretching it a bit, Micha.

        pro mass murder? I just said its more humane to sequester humans than to murder them.

        Anglophile? maybe but Anglo not meaning the UK, but English speaking countries in general.

        neo-Nazi?!!! you said this too about Ukraine, whats with the preoccupation of Nazis, Micha?

        Again, your tilting at windmills.

        You don’t even know what movie that’s from above!!! 😉

        • Micha says:

          “A sociopath is someone who has no empathy for others. They are unable to feel guilt or remorse. And they are without any concern about the consequences that their actions might have on those around them.”

          You have already declared on countless posts that humanity is the problem (Jewish problem redux) and that mass murdering a whole lot of them is perfectly alright for your conscience.

          Favoring English speaking countries is racism by default.

          Case settled.

        • Karl Garcia says:


          Your Blacks are statistically and scientifically the problem gives the impression that you are a racist.

          Your ejk posts that made Edgar say FY and made me do the same does give you a mass murderer look.

          Mango avenue posts, etc is another.

          Perceptions can be reality if you are consistent in showing us your behavior.

          • @karl,

            Blacks in the US do make up 13% of the population and 50-60% of violent crimes annually are done by blacks over here, karl. that’s just fact at this point.

            As for EJKs in the Philippines remember I was pushing for DU30 to EJK bigger fish, it never happened, but because of EJKs in general the streets got quiet and DU30 held a 90% approval rating.

            As for Mango Ave. I think the small size of Mango Ave. which is only half a block on both sides, with regular restaurants , eateries and comedy clubs and banda-banda type entertainment all strewn about, all means Mango Ave. isn’t as bad as say EDSA or Angeles, etc.

            “Favoring English speaking countries is racism by default.”

            How does that even make sense , Micha?!!! its a language!

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