Lamat
[Photo credit: pcwallart.com]
By Rolan F. Literatus
Ang bayan ng Belo ay tanyag na isa sa mga mauunlad na bayan sa Pilipinas. Para sa mga dayo, madalas silang mamangha kapag nasasaksihan nila ang matatayog na gusaling pang-komersyo sa poblacion, ang mga naglalakihang malls, malalawak na kalsada, ang mga snappy na mga pulis, ang kalinisan ng paligid, at mga taong hindi naninigarilyo sa mga pampublikong lugar. Para naman sa mga taal sa Belo, ang mga ito ay ordinaryo na lamang para sa kanila. Kapag tinatanong sila kung paano ito nakamit ng bayan ng Belo, ang madalas at agaran nilang sagot ay dahil sa kanilang alkalde, si Mayor Bantaleon. Mahigpit daw si mayor sa disiplina hindi lamang sa kapulisan kundi sa buong mamayan. L antarang niyang sinasabi sa publiko na walang puwang sa bayan ng Belo ang mga kriminal at kung ayaw nilang mapatay ay marapat na umalis sila sa bayan ng Belo. Madalas niya ito sinasabi at pinatotohanan ng mga daang-daang napatay sa bayan. Minsan na niyang inamin na siya mismo ang pumapatay ng mga kriminal. Hindi rin niya tinutuligsa ang mga tinatawag na berdugo ng ilang civil societies. Minsan na rin niyang inanunsyo ang pangalan ng ilang criminal at makaraan ang ilang araw o buwan sila ay natagpuang patay. Salvage. Karamihan sa mga taga Belo ay nagsasabing okey ang ganitong sistema. Natutuwa sila kapag may napabalitang pinatay na snatcher, kawatan at ibang pang uri ng kriminal.Ayos naman ang ganito. Ang mga salot lang naman ang napapatay. Karaniwan na ang ganitong mga linya sa kanila. Si Mang Juan ay isa na sa mga natutuwa.
Si Mang Juan ay may nag-iisang anak, si Jose. Si Jose ay labing-siyam na tao n at isang semestre na lang at matatapos na siya sa kolehiyo. Ang tawag nga ni Mang Juan sa kanya ay ang kanyang dyamante. Masipag. Matalino. Responsableng anak.
Dumating ang isang takip-silim at si Jose ay naglalakad sa damuhan pauwi sa kanilang bahay. Ilang saglit pa ay nakita ni Jose ang pagbaril ng isang lalaki sa nakaluhod at nagmamakaawang binata . . .
Mag-aalas dose na ng gabi at hinihintay ni Mang Juan si Jose hanggang sa siya ay makatulog. Ginising siya kinaumagahan ng ingay ng kanyang mga kapit-bahay. Lumabas siya sa bahay at nagtanong kung ano ba ang nangyari. Ang sab i ay may pinatay at tinapon malapit sa may sementeryo. “Ayan, mabuti yan! Mga salot sa lipunan! Buti nga,” ang agad na sinabi ni Mang Juan. Sumama na rin siya sa mga kapitbahay upang maki-usyoso. Maraming tao ang nakapalibot. Mga bulung-bulungan. Buti nga sa mga ‘yan. Naku, itsura pa lang, kriminal. Bagay sa kanila ‘yan. Nagsumiksik si Mang Juan sa mga tao hanggang bumungad sa kanya ang nakahandusay . . . dalawang bangkay. Ang isa ay puno ngtattoo sa katawan. Ang isa ay ang magdamag niyang hinintay . . .
Napatingala siya sa kalangitan at sa puntong iyon, parang may lamat ang asul na kalangitan . . . kasunod ay ang matalim na iyak na parang sa asong nawalan ng tuta . . .
The Society of Honor by Joe America 
Lovely literature.
I would direct readers to also read Gabriel Garcia Marquez’s short story, “One of These Days” about a dentist who if forced to extract the tooth of a corrupt mayor. Wonderful imagery you can use in the same manner as this piece.
http://www.classicshorts.com/stories/ootdays.html
and a short commentary on it:
http://medhum.med.nyu.edu/view/1258
By the way in the real world Belo, I am pretty sure there are dead bodies that had nothing to do with drugs or crime. These were collateral damage, like in the story. Mistaken identities, wrong information, personal grudges of the executioners which were included in the target list to get even. Nobody can control a death squad. Even the CIA and FBI and MI5 with all that funding, intelligence gathering and surveillance makes mistakes.
Of course the Mayor can claim he never makes mistakes. But look what he did to Wharton and the Pope.
But di Mayor is right! Di Pope did not istudy in Warton! Pakyu! 🙂 😦
Thank you, Andrew. The “One of These Days” is beautiful. Yeah, powerful imagery. Powerful message, too. About the Belo, the name itself has a meaning. But yes, there are plenty of dead bodies that belong to innocent souls. And they have been documented. The question boils down to who will police the police? If the mayor is charged to uphold the law and he kills them short of the processes or allows them to be killed with collateral damage to boot, he does not uphold the law. He lumps himself with the criminals.
Nietzsche: Those who fight dragons may become dragons themselves.
And Duterte recently said he is often just joking and the people from Manila don’t get it. Well, there are funny jokers like Karl Garcia, and there is Batman’s enemy The Joker.
http://www.mcafee.cc/Bin/sb.html – The Joker is an example of a Sociopath, and the definition of a sociopath can be found in that link… now let us look at some behaviors:
Glibness and Superficial Charm
Manipulative and Conning
Grandiose Sense of Self
Pathological Lying
Lack of Remorse, Shame or Guilt
Shallow Emotions
Incapacity for Love
Need for Stimulation
Callousness/Lack of Empathy
Poor Behavioral Controls/Impulsive Nature
Early Behavior Problems/Juvenile Delinquency
Irresponsibility/Unreliability
Promiscuous Sexual Behavior/Infidelity
Lack of Realistic Life Plan/Parasitic Lifestyle
Criminal or Entrepreneurial Versatility
Other Related Qualities:
Contemptuous of those who seek to understand them
Does not perceive that anything is wrong with them
Authoritarian
Secretive
Paranoid
Only rarely in difficulty with the law, but seeks out situations where their tyrannical behavior will be tolerated, condoned, or admired
Conventional appearance
Goal of enslavement of their victim(s)
Exercises despotic control over every aspect of the victim’s life
Has an emotional need to justify their crimes and therefore needs their victim’s affirmation (respect, gratitude and love)
Ultimate goal is the creation of a willing victim
Incapable of real human attachment to another
Unable to feel remorse or guilt
Extreme narcissism and grandiose
May state readily that their goal is to rule the world
Duterte may be more dangerous than Marcos.
Pretty scary, Irineo. His threat that he will back Binay if disqualified puts the lie to everything he supposedly stands for. What, really, do his supporters mean when they say he will bring “discipline” to the nation? This is not discipline. It is lunatic.
He seems to me to be little more than a two-year old with power.
Not really… it is “dark brown” allying with “black” against “dirty white”.
Or provincial God-King allying with urban poor Datu… http://filipinogerman.blogsport.eu/evolution-of-order/
Is this threat related to his DQ case? I mean, a Binay presidency is the worst thing that can happen…
RRD seems to be campaigning against himself
Self-destruct 101, or how to make a laughing stock of all your supporters and followers . . .
I tend to think of Bane instead, given the high level of oratory in the film which reflects his ruthless intelligence.
http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/748211/anyone-but-roxas-duterte-to-back-binay-if-he-poe-will-be-dqed
Is this true? And I thought he said he will persecute criminals?
That only proves he only goes after small time criminals, the ones he can manhandle. He has not gone after any big-time criminals in his entire stint as Mayor.
Kay Duterte, ang mahirap na kriminal pinapatay. Ang mayamang kriminal, tinutulungan.
And I almost believed that he is against corrupt politicians… If this report is really true, I cannot see how Cayetano can defend Duterte against his critics…
I fell for Duterte’s ploys too but woke up in time and was shocked.
which is why I am trying to explain to people how he does it… as an antidote.
Quo vadis, Cayetano and Pimentel….Where to now? you so ably helped expose the thieving and manipulative ways of Binay in the SBR Sub-committee hearings, and now the guy you are pushing for the presidency will campaign for that thief if ever he gets disqualified. Quite ironic, don’t you think? Please review your sense of direction.
Dinabaw Kami
9 hrs ·
Anyone but Roxas? Duterte to back Binay if he, Poe will be DQ’ed
By: Aries Joseph Hegina
@AHeginaINQ
INQUIRER.net
03:44 PM December 16th, 2015
Anyone but Roxas.
That seems to be the principle of presidential aspirant and Davao City Mayor Rodrigo Duterte when he said that he will not support administration bet Manuel “Mar” Roxas II should he and Senator Grace Poe will be disqualified from joining the presidential race next year.
In an interview with ABS-CBN News, Duterte said that instead of Roxas, he will support opposition leader Vice President Jejomar Binay for president.
“I don’t care kung ma-disqualify ako but this much I can say: I do not have any respect for you (Roxas)… Kapag na-disqualify si Grace, na-disqualify ako, I will campaign for Binay. Binay na ako then I will tell the Filipino people why you should not [be president],” Duterte said.
The tough-talking mayor continued his verbal offensive against Roxas, saying that the camp of the administration bet is the source of all the black propaganda being hurled against him.
Believing that it was Roxas’ camp who leaked the rumor that he is suffering from cancer, Duterte urged the electorate not to vote for the former Interior secretary.
“Ikaw (Roxas) yung nagba-black propaganda eh. Buti pa si Binay, tumahimik na lang. If it all goes well, baka manalo pa siya. I am now telling the Filipino people: yung gumagamit ng black propaganda, iwasan niyo yan. What is the style of Roxas? You paint your opponent black so you will appear white,” he added.
Duterte and Roxas are engaged in a bitter word war which has since downgraded into threats of physical violence. The verbal tussle between the two presidential contenders started when Roxas downplayed the tag of Davao City as a safe city. Duterte then retorted and claimed that Roxas was not a graduate of the prestigious Wharton business school.
The fiesty mayor is facing a disqualification case before the Commission on Elections (Comelec) as his substitution to former Partido Demokratiko Pilipino-Lakas ng Bayan (PDP-Laban) standard bearer Martin Diño is being questioned over an erroneous entry in the latter’s certificate of candidacy.
Meanwhile, Poe is facing four disqualification cases against her before the poll body. Two divisions have already granted motions canceling her COC on the grounds of her allegedly questionable citizenship and her supposed failure to satisfy the 10-year residency requirement for the presidency.
http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/…/anyone-but-roxas-duterte-to-…
http://filipinogerman.blogsport.eu/seguridad-ni-duterte/ – I mentioned Parekoy’s posting in Raissa’s blog and wrote at least give it some scrutiny even if one may not believe it… now contrast that to Oplan Lambat-Sibat which goes after the capos not the small-time dealers.
Who knows it might be that just those who invade the territory of Duterte’s partners may be the ones being made an example of. Criminals have turfs. Things like this can happen.
The only way to channel human greed and brutality are rules. For greed, laws that level the playing field. For brutality, laws and justice. People are not totally bad like Hobbes has said. But people are not totally good either like Rousseau thought. Order balances this.
My reply to a Duterte supporter in Philippine Daily Inquirer:
Oh yes, Fire Engine. Even assuming that everything you say about Davao is 100% accurate, your man Rodrigo Duterte is a loose cannon. He will sink every ship in sight that does not conform with his leanings. To spite Mar Roxas, he is even willing to support Jejomar Binay. What kind of a savior is this, that he will foist the worst thief since Ferdinand Marcos on the country in the guise of cleaning it up? You may be well-researched and knowledgeable about the subject matter but you lack foresight, hindsight, wisdom and smarts. It’s like saying the guy is a good gardener, but if you reject his offer of service, he will release a snake in your garden. Think clearly, my dear fellow countryman.
Pretty disingenuous of you to take the guy at his word for his outsize remarks — kill ’em all, i’ll shut down congress if it it remains obstructionist, i’ll send off my following to Binay if I get disqualified etc. — but at the same time throw shade at his one true exhibit A for governance which is Davao’s success story.
Yes, the guy uses serious firepower to come down hard on crime, but a dictator? A loose cannon? A thief? He’s ruled Davao cumulatively longer than your brod had ruled the country, but Digong has never used strong-arm tactics to run his local opponents down. To paraphrase the empathetic words of PNoy, buhay pa naman ang mga Nograles di ba? Si Ben de Guzman patay na ba? Si Joji Bian? Were any one of them ever harmed in any way for getting on his bad side?
He also has an uneasy relationship with the armed and legal Left in the city, but he has always been circumspect about his dealings with them because he understands how political dissent is a completely different animal from common crimes. That’s not how your brod behaved from what I heard.
Duterte also doesn’t need to pander to minorities like the narrow Lumad or Moro or LGBT constituencies in Davao because he draws more than enough support from the broad Christian majority, yet he always — always — makes sure their identities and aspirations are reflected in the public interest. So how’s all these inclusiveness the makings of a dictator?
And btw the efficiency, responsiveness and sustainability of projects and services there are hardly indicators of ad hoc rule that a loose cannon might be associated with.
As for Duterte threatening to shepherd his followers towards Binay if he gets DQ’d — does it really take sophisticated punditry to speculate he’s just raising Binay as a bogey with which to push back against the Liberal machinery’s penchant for offing all of Mar’s serious rivals? That’s not any different from other counter-intuitive tactics he’s employed in the past and for which he’s getting known for — his hele-hele, invoking SET’s affirmation of Poe as reason for deciding to finally run, daring the Catholic heirarchy to ask him to withdraw and he will, asking voters to consider him last, etc.
Whether we’re ok with all these impulses or not, they’re obviously working in his favor, so why should he move any differently now? The trick is to maybe parse between what he says (which his emotional kindred Miriam Santiago correctly called for what it is — hyperbole) and what he actually does (or does not) — for which you have Davao’s experience to examine more conscientiously. And yet all you have to say for it is a snooty “oh yeah, fire engine”? Really?
Kung maka-cherry pick naman kasi kayo oo..
At this level of politics, where the stakes are so high, I do not understand why a candidate requires the electorate to second-guess, re-interpret and look for hidden meanings instead of speaking straight and accurate and honest.
This is the presidency, for Pete’s sake. You expect the public to put aside all those interviews? Every “presidentiable” opinion is rightfully interpreted to be implemented as public policy because if not, what else can we hang on to? Is this a trick or mind game, where if Duterte commits an offense, he will just say, “Exaggeration ko lang yon.”? What kind of presidency is that?
Ask Irineo here, who is based in Germany and half-German. Hitler’s success story was Berlin but look what he did to the Jews and Europe. All the time he was outlining his anti-Semitist and world domination policies in his speeches. Were people supposed to regard those as simply “outsize”?
The President of the Philippines represents every citizen, and represents their values, either for laws or against them. How are we to discern that which is hyperbole and that which is what he would actually deliver? For me, the hyperbole is that which he actually delivers, and I don’t want it, in form or content, representing me or my family. There is no “snooty” to that conclusion. It is as honorable as yours, except that we have different values.
@butod,
Everything that was said or speculated was based on what D30 is showing and saying. There’s no doubt he was an effective leader for Davao(at least), but that was after 2 decades of uninterrupted mayorship from Duterte’s family(Dynasty?). Do you really believe he can deliver our desired changes within 6 years considering his style on a national level?
Will you be proud of him representing us in-front of the different leaders of the world considering all that you’ve seen and observed from him?
= He is eyeing the presidency not a local position.
Reminds me of my Davao assignment. As early as 2010 people have been harping about this remarkable “peace and order” in Davao. What I later found out is that the remarkable peace and order is merely a hyperbole. But I understand where these people are coming from as most of those who settled in Davao came from nearby towns and provinces with volatile peace and order situation. These people found Davao as their sanctuary, and we just can’t dispute that.
butod, “snooty” is class warfare stuff… let’s stick to the issues.
cherry picking? Other places also have accomplished a lot: Subic, Iloilo, Albay.
Davao is only one of many competent local governments, but Duterte is very arrogant.
Making it look AS IF Davao were the only place in the Philippines that really works.
His exceptional energy made it an oasis in the middle of a war-torn area.
But let him remain Christian Sultan of the Oasis of Davao then. He doesn’t fit nationally.
Come to think of it, Miriam herself gave the appropriate word. Hyperbole. Davao’s peace and order is a hyperbole. Peace and order at what expense? Security at what expense?
A premonition of horrible things to come if Duterte becomes president of the country.
Ganoon talaga ang mangyayari, sigurado ako. Aywan ko sa kanilang mga hangal na boboto sa ganitong klase ng tao, lalo na ang mga kabataang babae na nakapaligid sa kanya na nagtutumili sa tuwa habang hinihipuan ng meyor doon sa kampanya niya noong isang linggo sa Pampanga na ipinalabas sa balita sa ABS/CBN. Kinikilabutan ako.
Duterte has said it already. He will campaign for Binay if he and Poe are disqualified. I think this will be very bad for Mar Roxas. The rabid supporters of Duterte and Poe will surely gravitate to whoever is the presidential candidate that can give Roxas a good fight if both Poe and Duterte are finally disqualified. Roxas will have no chance in that scenario. There is this perception kasi na hawak ng LP at ng administration ang COMELEC at mga courts na magdi-disqualify kay Duterte at kay Poe kaya kapag na-disqualify sila ay mangangampanya sigurado sina Poe at Duterte pabor sa kalaban ni Mar. Patay si Mar sa ganitong situation.
The COMELEC, the courts, and everybody concerned in this election should think twice and thrice, before opting for this matter of disqualification.
Mas maganda ang laban ni Mar kung parehas ang laban sa kampanya na hindi madi-disqualify si Duterte at si Poe. Just my two centavos.
Exactly… fully agree…
Because the perception – and NOTHING can be done against it – is that the “rich people” and the LP “ruling party” are making life hard for the “less fortunate”.
The ones who will suffer are not the rich – they will switch sides quickly. Statements by Ayala about “The President should be a leader and does not have to be a manager” show that flexibility. It will be the middle class. Those who only rose up against Marcos when the economy started to go down. Those who did NOT care when many intellectuals suffered. This is the opportunity to show that they are not the weak opportunists many think they are.
There is another side to this, I believe. If the Comelec and the Supreme Court accommodate the two AGAINST their BEST LIGHTS — considering that it is only a stimulated suspicion that they are lackeys of the Administration — wouldn’t we be committing the other kind of mistake? So, people like us who have better discernment should continue to do what we believe is right. If it comes to Binay being elected, so be it. Should we throw Comelec and SC in the trash heap — so to speak — because we are up against a Poe or Duterte endorsing Binay? Huwag naman. (My one centavo worth.)
The indecent eagerness of so many, noted by caliphman already but not here elsewhere, to DQ Poe has the makings of wanting power for one’s own group at all costs – a sickness the Philippines has always suffered from – either you are “in” or “out”, saan kapit natin?
Since I have nothing to gain or lose in any way – I am outside – and only do hope to see a better country at some point – I see that. Duterte’s supporters are mostly rabid dogs that is for sure… si Duterte tao mga supporter niya mga aso tahol ng tahol… si Duterte kontra sa droga karamihan yata ng mga supporter niya mga addict…. these are some things I see. But like Mami Kawada Lover noted there are Roxas supporters who are intolerant as well.
There are also people who write in social media that Aquino was a great President, but they do NOT trust Mar Roxas. They see what Joe wrote a long time ago, that Aquino is a President of all Filipinos. In fact he had no problem with Grace Poe running, I believe that.
In fact I see to little concentration on programs and issues to be solved, too much on persons. Not a single article anywhere dissecting specific areas and candidate programs.
I mentioned 8 focus areas in this article: http://filipinogerman.blogsport.eu/personalities-versus-politics/ and Parekoy had his ten questions for Presidential candidates. OK in addition to that you have character and experience. Let us look at it by numbers:
– any failing grade in character or experience means not passing.
– character 50%, experience 30%, program 20% to get weighted average
– Binay, Duterte, Escudero. Bongbong fail already. Engineer NHerrera, please take over…
“The indecent eagerness of so many, noted by caliphman already but not here elsewhere, to DQ Poe has the makings of wanting power for one’s own group at all costs….”—Irineo
Natumbok mo, Noy. May mga gustong madisqualify si Poe at Duterte, sabi mo ‘at all costs’, para lang manalo si Mar. “at all costs”, ang ibig mo bang sabihin niyan maski ikatatalo ni Mar? Ganun? Kaya pala sabi ni caliphman noon, “…be careful what you wished for…”, ngayon ko lang nakuha.
However, you won’t really get disqualified if the documents or your qualifications are right or in order, right? Kung hindi nila binignyan ng butas ni katiting, di walang disqualification. Kaso talaga kasing may sabit yung dalawang “frontrunners.”
Law may be harsh, but it’s still the law.
Iyan ang sabi nating mga maka-Roxas…may sabit.
Iyong iba naman na nasa kabila ang sabi okay lang ang candidato nila kaya lang may influence si Mar at ang LP sa COMELEC at sa courts kaya may disqualification.
Salita natin laban sa salita nila.
Maski nga iyong mga magagaling na abogado at former Supreme Court justices magkaka-iba rin ang interpretation nila dito sa mga kaso ni Grace Poe.
I totally agree, BFD. All we want is for all politicians and citizens to follow and respect the constitution and rule of law. Poe’s supporters are making it appear as if the DQ cases are just so Mar could win…when it should be so that the rule of law should win, plain and simple. They will accuse Mar’s supporters of anything under the earth if their candidate Poe is touched in any manner, what, Poe should be above the law just because she is lording it over the surveys? Pnoy, Ramos, Panganiban and others should stop saying let the people decide, if we do that, then let’s do away with Comelec, the courts and the SC…let the people decide and then let’s spend 2 years counting the ballots or 100 years resolving crimes.
*******
NHerrera,
I’ll add my one centavo to your centavo.
The law is harsh etcetera.
And if Poe and Duterte support Binay out of spite, will they not have proved after all that their paramount interest is not for the nation?
*****
Who cares about the Filipino nation except some fools like us?
Most care only about “kami”… their own interests, and to hell with others. Let them rot in the slums, let them get killed if they dare steal or sell our kids drugs…. ewan ko ba.
Edgar,
I think that the answer to your question is definitely yes. But let’s bear in mind that there is a perception here of unfairness, that Mar and the LP are influencing the decision of the COMELEC and the courts to disqualify the opponents of Mar. That by itself, if the perception is true, will picture Mar as one whose paramount interest is for Mar also and not for the nation as well which will make the three of them birds of the same feather.
Eh, ano pa nga ba? Isa sa mga masamang ugaling kinamulatan ng maraming Pilipino ay ang pagiging benggatibo! Who cares about the country as long as I can get back at you!!
You know what’s really odd? Until recently pro-Duterte supporters generaly had varying views on the administration. A healthy mix of supporters, critics, and neutrals. Now, I”ve observed that many of these supporters suddenly became anti-administration. I can’t point my finger as to why. It can’t be because of their “slapstick”; even before that incident I had already observed this.
If I was a two-way fight between Duterte and Binay, I’l swallow my pride and vote for Binay. They’re both equally evil, they both have very bad attitudes, they’re both at the bottom of my list of candidates (while Poe and Roxas are currently “vying” for the top), but there’s something telling me that a Binay presidency will be bad, but a Duterte presidency will be even worse.
As for the impending DQ cases, my heart wants only Duterte to be disqualified, while Poe should be left off the hook. Although Poe lost my support in the wake of the INC incident, I stil sympathize with her on occassion, primarily on the issues with her being a foundling. It is claimed that she’s making a big deal out of it for political reasons, and while I concede that may be true to some extent, I stil commend her for fighting for foundlings’ rights. I mean, is it her fault that she was abandoned by her birth parents? Would we really want potentially a large part of the population to be deprived of the right to hold office simply because they were abandoned and their real parents could not be traced? While the residency issue is trickier and for now it seems things aren’t looking good for her, on the issue of her being “natural born”, I side with her. If the law says she’s not natural-born, then someone should make a law stating that, by default, foundlings found here are natural-born citizens of the Philippines. This isn’t just about Poe: it’s about the thousands of Filipinos who might be deprived of rights for circumstances beyond their control.
For Duterte’s case, the COC of Dino is clear: while the form is for President, the position is for Mayor. This is really skirting the lines, and it would be a mockery of the election system if Duterte pulls through. It would sent a bad precedent that could be abused by future politicians. The fact that the COC was never corrected, and the fact that they placed Mayor of Pasay at all, leads me to believe that Duterte’s campaign might have been a sham from the start. It can’t be a clerical error if: 1. the position added was very specific, and 2. they never corrected it. If it was “vice president” or even just “mayor” that could have been forgiven as a clerical error, but the oddly specific position makes this COC defective. It doesn’t help that Dino is apparently actually a resident of Quezon City, not Pasay.
Also additional comment: to give credit to Binay: he’s against capital punishment, a position also held by Roxas and Poe. I’m against capital punishment as I believe that it its effect on crime is minimal at best (the US executes more people than any other industralized nation, and yet abolitionist country Canada has a lower crime rate), and there doesn’t really seem to be a strong correlation between the imposition of capital punishment and crime rates; things could go either way with or without it. I’m also of the belief that most criminals could stil be rehabilitated; these tend to be the criminals whose crimes were rooted in poverty or financial status than ideology, and thus tend to be more remorseful. Finally, I’m against it because there’s always the posibility that, even with due process and appeals, innocent people can be put to death, a reason which is also my main beef with Duterte.
Exactly the appeal of “it is better to acquit ten criminals than to convict one innocent man.” That innocent man is precisely the intent of due process.
“I still commend her for fighting for foundlings’ rights” – MKD
In all her 3 years at the Senate, Poe did not do anything for the foundlings by way of introduced legislation.
If she truly cares for the foundlings, she should have authored a law that would have enabled the international laws, conventions and treaties to implement the prevention of their statelessness, that legislation would have paved the way for any still un-ratified treaties or laws to be submitted to the UN secretariat as a required procedure by the UN. If she did that, no foundling will have a problem being Filipino citizen, although they will not be natural born Filipino citizen as our constitution has set the jus sanguini (citizen by blood) in its provision on citizenship. That is what was contemplated by the 1935 constitutional convention, but no member of legislative body ever did, not even the foundling Senator. It took Lapid to do that. As of now, their status is that of a presumed naturalized Filipino citizens due to that lack of legislative action.
When it became clear in the surveys that people are clamoring for her to be presidential candidate, that’s only when she took up their welfare to heart to win political points and sympathy; she was just talking about it but did not do anything to walk her talk,
As the saying goes, better late than never. If anything, I’m worried more about Poe wanting Duterte to not be disqualified than her focusing on her being a foundling.
If it is a two way fight between Duterte and Binay.I will boycott the elections.There will be no lesser than two evils in this case.
@karl,
Don’t do that.
One, alone,you will not make any difference and two, your one vote will count one minus Leni’s.
How many votes will null the election? That must be the aim.
And we who read George Orwell’s 1984 thought Big Brother was bad. But the novel was published in 1949, for goodness sake. And we are in 2015 — 66 years from that Orwellian world and we may have a possible world with Duterte as Big Brother? P… I…!
Well, I wonder why Mar Roxas hobnobbed with him before… it was Leila de Lima – who BTW has a very good name in Berlin government circles and they are short on praise – who was VERY principled against Duterte from the very beginning.. a Bikolana BTW.
And why do so many wake up just now. Because they didn’t really care for the victims? Did these people do anything against growing inequality which is documented as a legacy of progress, hoping for trickle-down? Many Marcos upstart middle class people cared neither for the growing slums nor for the intellectuals that were imprisoned and tortured. The middle-class supporters of Duterte in Davao AND NCR do not care for one poor kid less or more – similar death squads in Latin America are supported by the same class BTW. The Philippines is a BRUTAL and INHUMAN SOCIETY in so many respects. Even the Preamble of the 1987 Constitution is meaningless in reality… it is like pious useless prayers in Latin..
http://filipinogerman.blogsport.eu/reconstitute-the-philippines/ – just and humane society?
And before anyone says look who’s talking… Munich is a city that attracted many strange personalities… Hitler and Lenin both hatched a lot of their stuff over here… but this city that spawned so much evil is a good place now… because of what it once spawned… maybe I too am slightly crazy, a person who would have been a dictator or a school shooter in other circumstances… but maybe someone who knows evil can explain it. Everyone who tends to evil is a bit of a zombie… the only remedy is life… and Love (c) Will.
My professor friend has a shooting buddy who is a police officer of Davao City. According to the officer, Allan Bigcas the infamous smuggler from Talakag, Bukidnon is close with Vice-Mayor Paolo Duterte. Bigcas does not smuggle through Subic or any other ports in PH but in Sasa Port. Yep, Davao City. So, it lends credence to the claims that Rodrigo Duterte cannot control his son. Proof also that reports about high profiled smugglers being jailed (or killed?) is scarce. But we do have lots of petty offenders as well as innocents, done in.
“And why do so many wake up just now. Because they didn’t really care for the victims?” – Irineo
Maybe because we did not know then about DDS?
It was only now that it was publicized due to Duterte’s being fuming mad at DOJ Sec de Lima that stories of extra judicial killings in Davao became talked about. Duterte wanted to dictate the Senator line up of LP, the fact that de Lima got included in the LP line up of senatoriables that he became anti-LP/anti Mar, that and the rumor of him being cancer stricken as published by a journalist sympathetic to Mar (who said he did not even know about that published article).
It is said that “Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned” for she can be angry and dangerous. Do we say that of Duterte, hell hath no fury like a man accused of being with cancer, or a vigilante killer which he is reported to be a “self confessed one”.
Talk about being vindictive.
De Lima, I must add to her credit, has been investigating him for some years already. But it is true and I know from my time in Manila that everything outside of that city does not matter too much, is hardly reported. Mindanews has reported about it since 2000-ewan.
I paraphrase a passage from a late 19th century book on criminology from Germany… it said that every killer has a suicidal thing in him, and many murderers would have killed themselves under other circumstances based on interviews made with convicts… Philippines was once a kind place.
Filipinos especially in pre-Marcos times – Manong Sonny is an example – were known for their warmth and gentleness. Something began to die in our souls in Marcos days… I realize this now.
Find back to the soul of what is Filipino is the solution. Maligayang Pasko. God bless the country.
“… were known for their warmth and gentleness. Something began to die in our souls in Marcos day …”
PiE, many if not most of our generation do remember this “warmth and gentleness” in their own souls, as can be felt in those who comment and read this blog. You and the younger ones do refer to them too. And with those sentiments we all face the same complexities and uncertainties that are being cast from many directions here and abroad. With Marcos, as you are accurately point out, our age of innocence was shed. (In my case anyway – the few years immediately preceding the Plaza Miranda bombing)
Nakikisimpatiya ako sa kilusang makakaliwa nung panahon ni Marcos ngunit nabaligtad ng mapatay ang isa kong matalik na kaibigan taong 1994. Masasabi kong collateral damage dahil ang target ng Alex Boncayao brigade ay ang sakay ng minamaneho niyang kotse na mayamang amo ng isang kumpanyang may strike ang mga manggagawa.
Kasamang binaril ang kaibigan ko dahil magiging testigo siya kung binuhay. Hindi na inisip ng mga pumatay ng may dalawang maliliit na anak na maiiwan at asawang napilitang magtrabaho para mabuhay sila.
Hindo ko matanggap hanggang ngayon ang nangyari dahil kasama ko siyang nakikisimpatiya sa layunin ng samahan.
…….. at dahil lamang nasaksihan niya ang di dapat masaksihan.
Napakalungkot.
Storya ni Othello kay Desdemona. Pero tulad ng isa, may mga sulat din ba tungkol kay Iago?
Time to do the thankless work.
Deconstruct
Synthesize
Understand
Explain
Expound
Summarize
http://www.thinkingpinoy.com/platforms-duterte-on-business-islands-industrialization-food-security-education
Among the words in your list, the one that grabs me is the word Understand. Yes, understand the rather refined reasonable ideas attributed to Duterte and the un-understandable words that comes out of his mouth and his actuations at many other times. I find it imperative to do that first before attempting to deconstruct, synthesize, etc. Thanks for that link, Gian.
Case in point. Duterte puts emphasis on industrialization in his program described in the link, but wants only “Business Math” and not algebra, trigonometry, calculus — the backbone tools of engineers. No engineers needed in this industrialization idea ala Duterte? I can’t understand.
This makes me ask — who put the ideas to Duterte in that refined understandable program described in the link. Cayetano and Pimentel?
If you ask me, he might want to make the Philippines a Chinese manufacturing hub… all the stuff they don’t want anymore… these ideas smack of National Socialism, Stalinism and Great Leap Forward… so I think the possible answer who briefed him.. is quite clear…
Yes, crystal (clear). No engineers needed, then. Only hands and feet and a little brain.
Really quite demeaning toward the Philippines, that we are not a nation of applied intellect (engineers), but a nation of applied labor (slaves).
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Ahaha! In Duterte’s world there are no engineers and scientists, only entrepreneurs, accountants, service industry personnel, and consumers.
Where people will conduct business is a mystery as there will be no infrastructure, structures and systems.
I like it. We can all work, picnic and play on the beach!
We won’t invite Duterte. He is one sandwich short of a picnic.
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Joe, edgar, Ireneo, NHerrera, gian, et. al.,
There’s a couple of stuff that I find troubling reading your comments. First, is this, Does Duterte really intend to do away with engineers and scientists, in his vision? Second, are engineers and scientists really the same? The first I’m really not too concerned about,
“… and not algebra, trigonometry, calculus — the backbone tools of engineers.”
but the second, is curious (at least for me). The farthest I got was algebra, and I got a C- (for all intents and purposes a D, but my teacher gave me a break).
So when talking about industrialization, I’m thinking New England in the 1800s, but I gotta feeling Duterte’s talking about Taylorism 1900s, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frederick_Winslow_Taylor (the “scientific”–kind of industrialization).
When talking about steel, the city of Pittsburgh comes to mind. Which is pretty old school.
Mar Roxas, I’m thinking New York city, and Stone’s “Wall Street”. So NCY vs. Pittsburgh in an era dominated by Silicon Valley, CA is how I’m framing this in my mind.
The best and brightest from the financial world (NYC), and the industrial world (Pittsburgh, ie, industrial engineering) are all migrating to Silicon Valley. And because Silicon Valley can pick and choose their folks, the pure numbers guy (from either financial & industrial fields) gets left behind,
because just being a numbers guy doesn’t cut it anymore, since they’re looking for “intangibles” now—ie., deep learning, creativity, diffuse worldview, outside interests, etc. heck there’s such a surplus of pure numbers folk, that they’re looking for folks who just have those “intangibles”, w/out the numbers background.
But that’s not my world, I’ve just read it.
In the military, since 9/11, they’ve realized that the engineering-heavy courses mandated to become military officers, are proving obsolete. During Taylor’s influence, the military needed officers who were well versed in industrial engineering, or related fields.
During these past recent wars though, our military was defeated, out-matched.
Scientists (I think it was commenter named Steve, who comes and goes here, that said the hard sciences are generally empty in the Philippines, his observation of his son’s program) I think are inherently valuable.
Engineers though, at least the pure numbers folk, envisioned by Taylor & sustained by the economy built around Taylor’s vision, are obsolete.
Which brings us to Silicon Valley. If Carnegie, Vanderbilt, Rockefeller and Morgan, built American in the 1800s, and fine-tuned by Taylor; in the 1970s it was Gates, Jobs, Allen, Catmull, etc. who all converged in the Bay area, re-inventing Taylor’s model.
So industrialization, IMHO, isn’t a phase that needs to be crossed. Organized machine vs. managing (and making opportunities in) the new Chaos.
By-pass all that 1800s & 1900s industrial crap, by-pass Taylor’s ideas, and start looking into what’s going on in the Bay area of Northern California.
In Seattle, Uber drivers are attempting to unionize (same crap from the 1800s, the seeds of Communism did start over here, ie. May Day),
so my point here is that Silicon Valley, or the new economy they’ve set-up, isn’t all that perfect.
But my bigger point is that engineers (at least the pure numbers guys/gals) are done,
it’s all about creativity. Scientists by their very definition are creative, engineers (at least those who were once essential in Taylor’s economy) either must be deemed obsolete or re-purposed with creativity in mind.
My bias here is military, namely officers steeped in engineering who were left behind since 9/11— so I’m NOT only touching on engineering as a profession, but also the thought process that’s proved too rigid in today’s world.
Am I right or wrong here? I’m still trying to put my finger on this myself, so any confirmation or push-back is appreciated here, gents.
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You’re wrong.
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He’s partly right… innovators are needed. Now engineers can be innovators… but engineer in American means a skilled worker… a Filipino engineer is a bit more.
K-12+ with German help is adressing skilled labor for the likes of Airbus that want to set up shop in the Philippines… better than having Chinese factories if you ask me.
Germany will not come with gunboats like in 1898 when the US+UK chased them out of Manila Bay to make sure they don’t help Aguinaldo which might have been their intent.
Back to innovation: DOST IGOV.PH is making its own government ERP + records management, meaning seeding innovation. Metallurgy Research is there are well.
Composite materials (Daimler-Benz uses ABACA as part of them NOW) are not yet on the program as far as I can see… this is the wave of the future… sustainable, resilient stuff.
Just outsourcing for others (USA, Germany, China whoever) won’t cut it in the long run. You have to be more value-added, move up the food chain until innovation.
But you have to start somewhere, bring the money in, but don’t get too comfortable with that. This was the mistake of Filipinos in nearly all their economic history.
Or the mistake of both principalia (Duterte) and ilustrados (Roxas) – just find ways to make the simple people work for the benefit of their datus and rajas. Hope Roxas is a bit more.
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The basis of LCpl_X’s question of whether he was right or wrong in this paragraph:
“But my bigger point is that engineers (at least the pure numbers guys/gals) are done, it’s all about creativity. Scientists by their very definition are creative, engineers (at least those who were once essential in Taylor’s economy) either must be deemed obsolete or re-purposed with creativity in mind.” Bolding mine.
LCpl_X is completely wrong.
As Juana says, there is no such thing as engineers that are pure numbers guys/gals. And creativity in engineering requires the application of mathematics.
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edgar, sorry my question wasn’t as pointed, this is still hazy in my mind, I’m just reacting to everyone’s comments on Duterte and engineers—- my view of engineers is different from scientists, I’m thinking Boeing, NG, Lockheed, Ratheon, making crap day-in day-out, just waiting for retirement. That’s not innovation.
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Oh, but it is innovation. Boeing (and other) products are constantly being improved and new models, materials and methods envisioned.
Each engineering change, whether totally new or incremental, requires calculations and testing.
I am quite certain no one would want want to fly in a crappy plane.
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One man’s crap is another’s security, and I know few people employed in business who are there just waiting for retirement.
Oh, but it is innovation. Boeing (and other) products are constantly being improved and new models, materials and methods envisioned.
edgar,
I understand there’s innovation within that corporate model, to push the Taylorist machine forward. But it’s not innovation for the greater good, it’s mostly to get the next contract, etc. Case in point, the Air Force command that has 2 Air Force Ones ready at all times,
keeps a couple of old vintage Air Force Ones planes also at the ready, in case if they need to go back to analog, which begs the question was innovation really achieved? If 1950s technology is still needed, then newer bells & whistles are just that.
So “innovation” for the great machine (ie. great for Boeing, and gov’t contracts), but as far as true innovation goes, not really light years ahead. Stealth technology cost us (taxpayers) trillions in R&D, etc. but as soon as 1990s Russia’s radar technology caught up, it ‘s not so fancy anymore.
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LCpl_X
I really don’t know what you are arguing for. You keep moving the goal posts.
This discussion started out with your contention that the “pure number” engineers are “done”, obsolete.
And I said you were wrong.
Then you changed your contention to engineers in Boeing (and other airplane manufacturers) are not doing innovation.
And I said they are.
Now you change your contention that the innovation of these engineers are not “true” innovations in the sense that they are not for “the greater good.”
And I will now say that they are.
Understand the process: change is a matter of degree. Not every engineering change is revolutionary; most changes are evolutionary.
And I would go so far as to say that revolutionary changes rest upon the broad foundation of evolutionary changes.
But revolutionary breakthrough changes cannot happen all the time. Nor should we expect them to. For each breakthrough, there is a period of utility… and improvement… and perfection… until another breakthrough occurs.
In the mean time, between breakthroughs, the period of utility, improvement and perfection is for the greater good. People are using, utilizing, the current level of technology, aren’t they?
But going back to the original discussion, my point in reply to your contentions is that every engineering change, whether evolutionary or revolutionary, require the services of the “pure number” engineers.
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LCpl_X,
I must commend you though.
Arguing with you is like wrestling with a greased pig.
Unlike with Marius. With him, it’s like wrestling with a pig stuck in the mud.
With you, one has to be quick and alert. With him, one falls asleep.
He he.
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I know few people employed in business who are there just waiting for retirement.
Joe,
I’m talking about Boeing, Raytheon, etc. why else was SpaceX able to overtake them in such a short amount of time. My feeling is when something becomes Taylorist machine, then a bunch of folks aren’t innovating anymore, just sucking on the teats of gov’t—- coming up with “innovation” to keep themselves going, hence bells & whistles and NOT so much innovation. Rob that from people, and you have folks just waiting to retire— Mojave has full of them.
I have the suspicion that executives of those firms might have a different perspective, but I don’t know myself.
LOL! edgar,
There is no original contention, I’m learning as I go here.
This isn’t the same as other arguments of ours , where I knew what exactly I was talking about, and had a command of my stance. So I’m placing goal posts as we go along here. 😉
The big picture here is how to make the Philippines steps (leaps & bounds even) ahead of the competition, as also echoed by Ireneo (and gian’s mention of dearth).
I agree with you on breakthroughs and innovation, baby steps to mind blowing stuff. But I’m saying corporate baby steps in their bottom-line focused R&D, must be avoided if you want true innovation the type Elon Musk is doing now.
Who knows, maybe Musk’s ventures will eventually take on Taylorism, and regress towards where Boeing, NG, Raytheon are now, but that spark that Musk and his team are driving at currently, should be the model to be followed (I’m sure here we can agree, no?).
So the spirit of this discussion is based on lessons-learned over here and BPO/factories over there, that there has to be a better way to get ahead. How to create the conditions to affect creativity and innovation, is the question.
My bias is against engineering— so bias recognized, I’m soliciting push-back as well as buy-ins from you guys. But I’m sure we agree in the big picture, no?
I think big picture wise we definitely agree…
LCPL_X, Dado Banatao (those interested please google who he is, big time Silicon Valley innovator) is back in the Philippines and helping innovative companies get started… and he is one of Grace Poe’s advisers, just like Dean Tony La Vina (Aquino’s chief negotiator or something similar at COP in Paris, a FB friend of Joe America and personally knows Duterte being a Mindanaoan) is… so the top minds are still present in the Philippines.
BUT the general quality has gone down… it seems to have upped again in the past years. Manong Sonny is very knowledgeable, but not to put him down, he is only slightly above average for his generation born in the war… I have met “ordinary” migrants who knew the Greek classics from his generation… anti-intellectualism was a hallmark of Marcos days… MRP and his anti-UP rants have a sinister undertone to those who know what hatred of UP meant for many UP folks treated as potential Commies… I understand Raissa banning him.
Prof. Roger Posadas (again those interested please google, I am in Istanbul on a project) was the Philippine version of Sakharov… Dr. of Physics jailed for years by Marcos… and after he came out when Martial Law was lifted in 1981 to start the “New Republic”, he railed against how the Government did NOT do enough for basic research and only was thinking of creating skilled workers and technical people to export locally and worldwide.
Edgar stop being pilosopo (nitpicking) and be a philosopher again, PLEASE! 🙂
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thanks.
There is a time to nitpick and a time to exalt.
The objective is to understand. If the perspective is wrong in the details, then necessarily the perspective will be wrong in the big picture.
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dado_Banatao
That’s what I’m talking about, Ireneo! How many more are there of these guys, but
more importantly how about scientists, doing cutting-edge stuff? And how can you keep them from going abroad? I’m trying to find Steve‘s comment (you guys remember it?) where he mentioned his son’s specialization in science, opining the lack of interest— I don’t know what cutting edge is, I’m no scientist, but what’s being done to promote and keep such folks over there?
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Applied physics.
https://joeam.com/2015/10/29/opportunity-the-energy-untapped-in-the-philippines/#comment-144168
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Edgar, I think you two are just discussing about terms used differently. Cut LCPL_X some slack, for all his smartness, he is STILL a Marine not an intellectual… 🙂
And nope, I don’t believe that Joe’s ideas about opportunities are enough. The Spanish made Filipinos servants, the Chinese would make us slaves, the Americans simply made us EMPLOYEES… not people who run our own show, bang our own drums…
What LCPL_X means is be cutting edge, not just working for others who are… a new view coming especially from an American… working for others is a way of getting money in, well I do it too am doing it right now, but being leading edge in my blog and here is even better.
“If the perspective is wrong in the details, then necessarily the perspective will be wrong in the big picture.”
Yeah, but the details is still fluid right now.
Scientists——————-> Engineers—>Technicians—–>Tinkerers/DIY Makers
<—————- I still think the bulk of creativity (ie. Einstein's quote below) happens towards that side of the spectrum
Though I'm not discounting creativity & innovation happens across the board throughout that spectrum above, I do think that engineers tend to stay within the confines of status quo— based on what I know of them in the military and gov't contract industry.
I'd not read that Einstein quote below, I just stumbled upon it while trying to find attribution for JP's quote/meme re engineers & scientists (which initially seemed suspicious knowing Einstein's background), but Einstein's correct in his characterization of engineers, no? That quip of his about "capital gain" is exactly what Taylorism's all about, what stifles creativity.
Now I think we're just discussing whether engineers are more or less, when it comes to creativity. I'm convince (so far) that Einstein's characterization of engineers is more the norm, than not, edgar. 😦
“What LCPL_X means is be cutting edge, not just working for others who are… a new view coming especially from an American…”
Ireneo,
I think this is California, Oregon & Washington (Cascadia) specific. I know folks in the Mid-West are still fighting for their factory jobs back from Mexico— the train’s long left the station. They’re still stuck in the Cold War era happy days, when the future is about Chaos and managing it— robots and automation are constantly on your heels, so factory jobs, BPO, etc. are done. I think we in the West Coast are in a better vantage to see this impending Chaos, because of Silicon Valley and China, the rest of America have their heads up their asses. The question is how do you prepare for the future?
Joe is right about the executives being the key… Boeing from what I know and have heard is very restrictive… most of their stuff is basically just a modernized version of the B-52…
Airbus is mostly quite innovative… the A380 is pure genius… but the 767 makes money.
Innovating means risk-taking… the V2 had a number of casualties in it’s development… now the Americans who took over Wernher von Braun’s team were more conservative.. the top stage of the Saturn 5 rocket was a modified V2 20 years later… it really depends.
SAP is Germany’s success story in software… founded by 4 programmers who left IBM Germany because their idea was seen as useless back in ’72… they are billionaires now.
Daimler-Benz pioneers in new materials, Volkswagen is old school steel for the most part.
“The question is how do you prepare for the future?” Only the Paranoid Survive.
That is the title of a book by Andy Grove, Auschwitz survivor and founder of Intel.
“Cut LCPL_X some slack, for all his smartness, he is STILL a Marine not an intellectual… 🙂 “
LOL! Not to worry, this Marine has a PhD in Google 😉 !
Looking forward to reading this, thanks!
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🙂
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edgar,
Your post (stamped December 18, 2015 at 4:06 am) summarized that rather well. You know what, in the past, I keep referring to myself here as a “numbers man.” I will lose that from now on. I will use engineer instead — better still, man of science, which I believe I used here. But I still add mentally to check on items I buy in the sari-sari store, though. Can’t get away from being a numbers man — suspicious geriatric man that I am.
🙂
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Engineer NHerrera! *respectful bow*
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LCpl_X,
I see your (December 18, 2015 at 8:28 am) and edgar’s reply. I hope, too, that you take my note above in a light vein it is meant to be. I read that Grove’s book before I passed it on to my engineer son-in-law. A nice read.
🙂
“I hope, too, that you take my note above in a light vein it is meant to be.”
I always do, NHerrera!
But I would like to get your response on what Einstein meant with creativity vs. practical refinement of everyday stuff, as it relates to the innovation & creativity we’re trying to engender the next generation here.
I assume you’re retired now, and if I remember correctly the bulk of your best years were spent in the Philippines, migrating stateside in your old age, correct? So what’s engineering like then, and what can it be in the future? How would you elicit creativity and innovation from engineers? What are the best practices and what stifles innovation/creativity?
Ireneo and edgar are computer engineers (right, guys? IT?), what kind of engineer were you, NH and can you also speak to engineering in general ( or which ever field) being susceptible to automation/algorithms?
Further insight is appreciated, whatever you think adds that I’m not asking above. Thanks.
Thanks kindly for the note, LCpl_X.
Short note:
NHerrera is my handle-name, not one you can take to the bank. BS Engineering degree in the Philippines; PhD Engineering in a US Ivy League; after the US degree came back to the Philippines; retired; am 77 now.
Rather than talking about mathematics, algorithm, engineering, or science, I believe what we need in the Philippines — and other countries too for that matter — is the teaching and inculcating of a systems view of things not as just one subject but the persistent and earnest repetition of the value to one’s career and person of a wider view of things. This begins of course with teachers who have that view and are trained at all teaching levels for it.
May I add: I enjoy reading your posts here in JoeAm’s.
Ah, thanks, NH!
“…a wider view of things. This begins of course with teachers who have that view and are trained at all teaching levels for it.” karl below offered a link on “Design Thinking” which I think relates to your idea of a “wider view”.
Now I’m not a math/science guy, nor an artist, but in security this “wider view” pays dividends—- ie., before-during-after, you got prevention, interdiction, investigation, so knowing as much as you can cover pays in kind down the line.
I guess what I’m trying to say is that over specialization will bite you in the behind (it did for us). In my limited view of academia (Google scholar here) and these professions, what I see is more specialization in the field of engineering, than in science (search for the theory of everything, implies “wider view”).
From your vantage, 1950s — 2000s, do you think engineers (and engineering professors, and engineering programs) in the Philippines (or over here also) have taken to this “wider view” or is the trend towards over-specialization—- more Taylorism?
His vision is the Philippines as a Chinese slave camp.
And have it pay for emissions the Chinese will then no longer have. Remember COP deal?
If you are an engineer (any type of engineer) and you lost your creativity, you are no longer an engineer. Engineers are not just numbers people. They are artists and scientists too.
Innovators is my word for it… LCPL_X is thinking more of skilled workers not engineers.
JP: Einstein’s “Scientists investigate that which already is; engineers create that which has never been” is a quote after my own heart. I am an engineer. And Einstein is an idol. Saved that image with the quote. Thanks. 🙂
JP, is that really an Einstein quote, cuz he did some funky stuff, light years ahead— literally– of what the field of engineering ever covered, I know they’re doing 10 times the speed of sound these days, but c’mon Einstein was beyond.
JP,
(Don’t bite my head off here 😉 )
But that quote that you shared is most likely mis-attributed (some one else’s, most likely an engineer’s LOL!)— can’t source it.
Though, I found one that’s more in-line w/ my sentiments, to our discussion (sourced too 😉 ),
Albert Einstein to Heinrich Zangger, ca. August 1918. CPAE, Vol. 8, Doc. 597 http://press.princeton.edu/chapters/s6908.html
Royco chicken noodle soup is both a soup and a full meal… I think we all have our points.
In my job I can be highly creative… after all I get paid for solving stuff nobody else dares to touch, and the money I earn gives me some freedom to do the really interesting stuff here.
The stuff I do on the job is wacky at times… some solutions are a mixture of pragmatism and structure based on real-life situations… budget and time constraints plus existing systems you can’t just tear down so you have to build on and around them and change only what needs to be changed… my job title is “Solution Architect” and I guess every engineer can a solution architect at times as opposed to just an implementer of stuff.
An ordinary programmer does what he is told… I find ways to get things done that others consider nearly impossible. I asked my business partner in Romania in 2008: guess you know I’m the only guy crazy enough to do this? He answered: crazy enough to get it done!
It’s all about problem-solving skills… something Joe attested as lacking in Filipino training.
Googled it Lance abd the quote was attributed to Einstein.
http://thinkexist.com/quotation/scientists-investigate-that-which-already-is/761229.html
karl,
I did another search for that quote above, it’s plastered all over the place, but no solid attribution exist, ie. in his books, letters, interviews— where the quote comes from. But more importantly, base on his background cutting his teeth thru patents, the quote I found on his view of engineering, makes more sense, no?
I remember my foolishness when I told the engineering dean of DLSU that we no longer need civil engineers,because there is no more room for buildings and roads.I was high school then and that was in 1988.I look back and slap my forehead everytime I am reminded of that episode in my life.We still need engineers,civil engineers,production engineers,electronic,mechanical,all engineering courses will never go obsolete.
It is they who can rightly say, if 1 can be produced then 100 also.
@ LC, Science & Engineering will always exist for each other, like two hands to effect clapping.
“… Manong Sonny is very knowledgeable, but not to put him down, he is only slightly above average for his generation born in the war… I have met “ordinary” migrants who knew the Greek classics from his generation …”
@PiE, yes I was born right after the Japanese gave an amnesty to all Filipino USAFFE personnel (my dad). As my classmate (my age) likes to put it, it was a time when many Filipinos across the land generally suffered some kind of malnutrition, i.e. brain food.
As to being “only slightly above average,” I found out that I share the same IQ as either Watson or Crick. I am now beyond the window to work for a Nobel Prize in Chemistry (so, chuck that search). Consuelo de bobo, Jill St John reputedly has an 162 IQ, Hollywood beckoned and she’s happy. My mom and aunt are the only ones who are convinced I have a pretty face (so, chuck that LVN career too!).
As to being knowledgeable, the Divine has intervened enough times in my life and convincingly showed that I have all the knowledge I need for now. PAX TECUM, PiE! 🙂
“@ LC, Science & Engineering will always exist for each other, like two hands to effect clapping.”
That I understand, sonny, that they’re related. I’m just saying that the two aren’t the same, there’s an order—- if I have to make an analogy, Science would be the brain that cause 😉 the two hands (Engineering) to clap.
Great answers…
Ireneo’s got part of what I’m driving at here. But I’m not really too sure what I’m driving at, so bare w/ me.
Again, my basis for “engineers” were officers who I worked with from the Naval Academy (and West Point), who were engineering heavy—- they weren’t doing engineering per se, but the way they thought was rigid, mechanical (a big part of the problem in these recent wars).
So innovation’s one component of this. I’m imagining engineers just keeping the great machine going, unable to function in chaos.
The other part, I think, is this, “You have to be more value-added, move up the food chain until innovation.” So if you’re not just keeping the great machine going, then you’re the engineer I’m envisioning, that you are in fact part of the value-added innovation machine—- how many of these guys are around, pound for pound? in the world? in the Philippines?
Theodore Hertzl, the guy that came up with the idea of getting Israel back, I think he was a novelist, once said that the most important people in Israel (this is before Israel was actually founded) were the water engineers. Fast forward to when Yitzhak Rabin got the Nobel prize, where he said, “I wanted to be a water engineer”, and farmer, when growing up.
Then fast forward to now, and Israel (security issues notwithstanding) is the only nation in the Mid East exporting water and selling fruits of agriculture.
So that’s the type of “value-added” engineering, I’m talking about, not the R&D-type making useless stuff, just keeping the great machine going, adding to the mess.
But more importantly, and I guess, this is the point, is that those “professions” that get you a sign in your parents’ house in the Philippines, ie. Doctor, Lawyer, Accountant, Engineer (because the Arabs did this too) will soon be obsolete in light of automation.
Some of the best structures over there, customizing of vehicles, design improvement, welding, carpentry, etc. were done by people who never set foot in colleges, so I know things can still get built and innovated on without formal training.
Engineers, the type that just keep the great machine going, will come from Vietnam or Africa. the Philippines should look further into the future.
I’m not saying get rid of math & science, I’m saying differentiate between your scientists (innovators, Israel’s water engineers) and engineers (R&D for non-essential corporate crap, or gov’t bureaucracies).
I don’t want to do a Marius here, and define words ad nauseam, but in my mind engineers are below scientists—-
like Steve‘s son, I can’t remember what program his son was in now but it sounded like real cutting edge science stuff, more Filipinos should get into that.
I’m out of my element here, maybe Ireneo can add on to what I’m trying to drive at.
But yeah Innovation and Creativity (not creativity within R&D, but actual break-throughs, leaps & bounds).
During the Cold War (space race) Boeing and Sargent & Lundy couldn’t empty the Philippines of her engineers fast enough, probably second only to Filipino doctors and nurses.
sonny,
This is my other point, also Ireneo’s “Just outsourcing for others (USA, Germany, China whoever) won’t cut it in the long run.”
A surplus of nurses now come from the Philippines, and they are sub-par compared to their 70s counterpart, ie. less mastery of English, critical thinking/scientific process (if I do this, this happens, etc.) and subservience to doctors, in the time when nurses here are carving out their own profession parallel to doctors (ex. more nurse practitioners, and specialists).
So they are not “value-added” anymore.
Indian doctors are a plenty in the VA and big hospitals over here like Kaiser-P, and because these doctors still think of themselves as Indian doctors with status and respect that automatically afforded to them in their country of origin, when they get asked pointed questions, or get some patient (family) push-back, their bedside manners go out the window.
I’m not as knowledgeable of engineers outside of the military and gov’t contract world, but I’m sure similar realities to that above can be found.
So quality’s one aspect, but I’m also talking about the number of engineers, doctors and nurses, that any developing nation can produce.
If any country can produce these professionals en mass, like back in the Cold War era, then the assumption should be, those Africans are gonna corner this market. Hence the push for innovation and creativity, sonny.
I have a cousin who Was a doctor and is Now a nurse.I wonder how many are like him.
karl,
I know a special visa specific to nurses (because of the nursing shortage here) was set-up. So doctors over there, probably saw this opportunity and switched sides. 😉
Most foreign doctors I’ve come across are from India, and nurses from the Philippines.
LC, seems like the innovation and creativity you are seeking (breakthroughs, leaps, bounds) are not bottle-able processes. Rather the breakthroughs are encountered not accomplished, e.g. discovery of penicillin, tungsten for the electric bulb, slow-moving neutrons to initiate nuclear chain reactions, water to modulate chain reactions, the Internet, computer operating systems, the glider at Kitty Hawk, and many, many more. Serendipity, tedious mundane trial & error, 3M method …
sonny,
Yeah, that’s it! Same way Israel’s consistently coming out with all sorts of innovations (in spite, or because, of their security issues), can the Philippines replicate what Israel’s doing?
Dr. Mahar Lagmay of DOST Project NOAH is doing a lot for preventive risk management in the area of natural catastrophes… instruments all over the country to measure rain and water levels and stuff like that… heavy use of IT for real-time and predictive stuff…
Social media to inform citizens… coordination with LGUs… the weather is to the Philippines what Arabs are to Israel… Mahar is like the Mossad… Yolanda was a very painful lesson.
Year 2000, the Philippines ranked low in Science and Math education.
http://www.philstar.com/news-feature/91528/filipino-students-still-rate-low-math-science
After more than a decade,it is still the same.
http://www.gmanetwork.com/news/story/274398/scitech/science/do-top-phl-schools-low-world-rankings-reflect-state-of-science-ed-in-country
maybe K12 can change our sub par performance in math and science.
We look to Israel as far as science is concerned.
http://www.interaksyon.com/infotech/ph-to-appoint-a-science-attache-to-israel
http://www.manilatimes.net/filipino-students-attend-world-science-conference-in-israel/211830/
Lance if we replicate what Israel is doing then we will no longer have problem with agriculture,sea water desalination,weapons manufacturing,and even ewaste recycling.
karl,
That’s good to know that the Philippines is attempting to replicate the stuff they are doing in Israel. I hope they focus on water.
Ireneo’s posted some links of Germany directly involved in the Philippines re math & science (and engineering). Are there similar articles on Israel (in the Philippines), or are these simply trips to visit Israel, maybe just to visit the “Holy Land”? How do these trips to Israel translate to what’s being done in the Philippines, is what I’m asking.
From the Science attache link above.
“MANILA, Philippines — The Department of Science and Technology (DOST) is planning to deploy the country’s first-ever science attaché to Israel this year.
DOST assistant secretary Raymond “Mon” Liboro said the talks came about after Israel reportedly expressed willingness to the proposal, which aims to fortify science and technology as a key pillar of economic development for the two countries.
“They are willing to explore the idea. They have expressed openness to it,” Liboro said.
Such a set-up, according to Liboro, will result in an “exchange of expertise” between Philippines and Israel.
One significant benefit to the country will be learning from Israel’s highly developed startup ecosystem, which have given birth to successful world-famous startups such as Viber and Waze among others. In turn, Liboro said the Philippines can share how we have leveraged technology in disaster-preparedness and mitigation.
No other details, however, have yet been ironed out for the plan, specifically who will be deployed and when. Liboro, however, said the yet to be named attaché may be placed under the auspices of the DOST.
Liboro added that DOST is coordinating with the Department of Foreign Affairs regarding the proposal, which is slated to be finalized this year.”
Thanks, Karl. Pretty soon, the Philippines will have moved from the back of the pack to the front. It is within reach, and I wish more Filipinos could grasp how near that distinction is, and how rich the nation will be when she gets there.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel%E2%80%93Philippines_relations
Israel-Philippines Relations
We will get there soon. Proposals to scrap or suspend K12,higher math subjects by any presidential or vice presidential candidate is crazy.
Karl, i’ll be ecstatic if and when the Israel-Philippines connection comes to pass. The conjunction of these two truly diasporic cultures will be more than great. And as Joe says, the last will be first.
I believe people would get offended by this but here we go.
I think that in some sense there is a dearth of creativity in Filipinos on innovation/engineering. This is brought about by the weird mix of educational values of east meets west.
Whereas the Tiger Economies (I use this as a historical grouping term ) of Japan, Korea, Taiwan, Singapore have the Asian/ What comes to mind for me is Confucian way. Rigidity lacking creativity.
While the Western Exceptionalist/Individualist mindset that my create student with lower test scores but have a more entrepreneurial/daring mindset.
The Philippines’ educational system melds both of these. There is no obsession with prepping for Toudai exams/National Exams that is present in the Tiger Economies and there is no Individualistic/Daring thinking.
Of course there are exceptions to these but I am pretty confident that this is what I can observe and I have experienced.
This is why studying overseas can be liberating for most Filipinos.
As to what you are saying there is Pure Math and Applied Math same with most Science subjects.
Scientist discover the Phenomena whilst most engineer discover a use of said phenomena.
Take for example Tesla. Since making cars and electric engines are a relatively known phenomena most jobs are of the Engineering kind. The work is about pushing towards the boundaries of what is possible. Science for me is knowing that there are boundaries.
I think the pushback is that what you should have used is Technicians vs Engineers.
Technicians deal with what exists while Engineers push towards the boundaries that Scientist Discover.
I hope I am making sense.
“… I hope I am making sense.”
Yes, you are, gian. All the statements & questions you made are apropos to the discussion of Science AND Technology. For example, when are you doing computer science? when, computer technology?
“I believe people would get offended by this but here we go.
I think that in some sense there is a dearth of creativity in Filipinos on innovation/engineering. “
Why would people be offended of the truth? I think we’re on the same page here, gian.
“I think the pushback is that what you should have used is Technicians vs Engineers.”
Thanks for that clarification, gian.
When I think technician, I’m thinking of the guy that comes over to fix the washing machine or refrigerator, ie. any kid from high school, or a tinkerer, can do that.
Like Ireneo said, I think amongst technicians also, innovation can take place (those guys that did wonders with those 1960s-vintage diesel engines around the waters of Mindanao, IMHO were geniuses of sorts).
So I’m not debating that innovation can only happen within one profession. Only that, like technicians, engineers can be utilize much the same way as factory workers. Hence, my view, that scientists have more ownership of innovation.
Scientists———————–>Engineers—–>Technicians (in my mind, engineers and technicians are closer to one another than they are to scientists, people like Einstein, Tesla, etc.)
For example Tesla cars, I don’t view so much as innovation since electric cars have been around since the turn of the century (the last turn of the century), fuel cells is probably where the new electric cars’ innovation lies,
but the same point I made to Joe above, if these old engineering hubs were so innovative, ie. like Boeing, NG, etc. why did Musk out pace them in every field? So all I’m saying is shooting further is key here and maybe the field of engineering is NOT obsolete,
though it needs to be peeled away from Taylor’s old notion and use of them, as just cogs in the factory floor.
What great scientific breakthroughs are taking place in the Philippines? Where are the Philippines’ great scientists, are they in the Philippines, or working outside, in Australia, Canada, EU and the US? How are they being prioritized by the Philippine gov’t?
DOST has some great engineers… as I wrote somewhere downstairs, DOST AGT and DOST Roadtrain are feats… AGT uses normal rubber wheels because they are easier to get in the Philippines, they said one MRT problem was getting iron wheels they are NOT part of what is easily procurable in the country… AGT is designed to have a small footprint better suited to crowded Metro Manila and is like many jeepneys on rails – suitable to Filipino riding habits and Filipino cities… engineering is also about making stuff feasible.
The Filipino educational system kills creativity… Gian is right. Most historical thinking for example is ideological… stating something that ISN’T within the precepts of the school you are supposed to belong to can cause you to be treated like Scientology treats it’s “SPs”… again those interested may google what suppressive persons means… Mami Kawada Lover was mobbed at UP for her article critical of the Left HERE at Joe America’s.. q.e.d.
In elementary school I once developed some ideas based on a task the teacher gave us… it was on-topic but slightly straying right and left with new stuff incorporated… the teacher gave me a failing grade… and the comment on the test paper was “PLEASE WRITE WHAT YOU ARE TOLD TO WRITE!” – now imagine that in the typical tone of a teacher in the Philippines… the tone Senator Santiago sometimes has… “the teacher is the God of the Classroom” was the motto of one excellent UP Professor, no not my father a friend of his.
Just look at how some Filipino intellectuals act up like RHiro. What does RHiro do but parrot standard Attac and Occupy jargon without own real thinking. I have substantially more respect for REAL thinkers like Walden Bello (also of the Attac/Occupy school of thought but a true contributor not a parrot) or Richard Javad Heydarian (half-Iranian) but these Slim Shadys have a lot of those who act like them talk like them but ain’t originals.
Plus those who get pedantic… no time to be too precise today… new project in the works.
Design Thinking is in as of the moment.Then every company should hire fashionistas,we have lots of them.
http://www.fastcompany.com/919258/design-thinking-what
“Then every company should hire fashionistas,we have lots of them.”
That’s a good read, karl—- I say mix and match ’em.
The two models, headed by a grey cube, are variants of how Taylorist enterprise are set-up. You can have more of the same in the Philippines, or
mix and match your best and brightest, artists, fashionistas (the badings, right karl?), social science, hard science, engineers, to DIY makers/tinkerers, lumads, set up networks of networks to elicit innovation and creativity. All goes back to Bam Aquino’s Negosyo Centers (you were gonna get us a write-up, right, gian 😉 ).
Improving on models is definitely a start, thanks for that article, karl.
@Irineo
It’s a he. I find it amusing that people keep forgetting my gender here just because I used a picture of Mami Kawada as my avatar.
As for UP, I was never mobbed, but from what I heard some of the leftists there did not take kindly to what I said. Shame, I thought they would be more open minded of my thoughts. At least my former leftist professor has an open mind.
I have the same problem. People think I am old. he he
His idea of education is primarily focused on values, or good moral character. Nice, but what about developing the other intelligences, such as teaching children about being self-sufficient by making best use of knowledge given to them such as language, mathematics, the sciences, literature, history, etc.?
Personally, he should raise the wages of public teachers and state university professors to the same level as of the cops to destroy illiteracy to remove poverty rather than just destroy crime.
Yes good catch. Without understanding almost all transformation and compounding of the initial idea may not hold
First comment: reminds me of National Socialist or Stalinist policies… vintage 1930s.. some of it was even done by Quezon himself, who like Mussolini and despised Hitler – met both!
1. as far as I know, government salaries already have been raised, recent House bills.
2. PNP community-based policing to get citizen cooperation in order… refer to 7 as well.
3. vintage 1930s…. most steel plants have profitability issues nowadays, except Mittal.
4. simplifiying laws is a worthy pursuit… Congress is in the way… ref DOJ Criminal Code.
5. WTF? PEZA is already doing this.
6. Google for BAYWA, Quezon did similar stuff, Marcos too. Present gov’t – I don’t know.
7. Values Education, even Conflict Management is part of K-12… I looked at it closer.
3. P.S. Advanced Metallurgy is one focus of DOST… to create Roadtrain and AGT.
http://www.mirdc.dost.gov.ph/ – without proper technological know-how meaning theory + practice, you cannot just put up steel plants… it becomes like Mao’s Great Leap Forward.
Besides, composite materials are more important nowadays… some use our own ABACA, a crop which grows pretty well in two places: Albay and Davao. Research into modern composite materials that use the resilient properties of abaca should be a DOST priority.
Sidenote: Bangladesh is I think at the leading edge of Abaca composites. I’ve always suspected composites was in Abaca’s future. I would venture also cogon fiber as cellulose filler.
> Mao’s Great Leap Forward.
Yeah, he had every Chinese citizen build steel plants in their backyards, which became a disastrous scheme.
PiE, If DOST is not doing already, a counterpart to ASTM for the gamut of Philippine materials.
6. as far as I know, Mar prefers agribusiness as the solution to this. But something like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BayWa#Corporate_history might make sense as well:
BayWa AG was founded in 1923. It has its head office in Munich, Germany. Agricultural products, building and construction-related products and the energy industry are its prime operational areas where it operates in both the retail and wholesale segments. It has a turnover of approximately €8 billion and about 2,700 sales locations. The major portion of the group’s profits comes from its Agriculture division. It does business of agricultural resources and then supplies the agro products from the field to the food processing industry. BayWa is one of the largest companies in this field[citation needed] and some of its products are exported worldwide. Its Agricultural Equipment business unit is involved with the sale and service of machinery. In the building materials industry ranking in Germany, BayWa stands second.
Providing seedlings, renting machines and being a wholesaler for the harvest of small to medium sized farmers in agricultural Bavaria is Baywa’s focus, building materials of course is a spin-off because farmers need to build stuff as well from time to time…
Click to access Edukasyon%20sa%20Pagpapakatao%20Curriculum%20Guide%20Grade%201-10.pdf
Page 7-8… summary… following pages details.
http://hrao.pnp.gov.ph/index.php/press-release/15-pnp-german-ngo-to-promote-human-rights-based-policing
The Philippine National Police and a German Non-Government Organization have joined hands to hold education and training, community-based dialogues and guides on human rights to promote “human rights-based policing” in the country.
Make people trust the police and involve them in reporting and being witnesses… is better than having berdugos play God and scare everybody… every unnecessary death or even intimidation creates enemies… why did many UP kids turn left during Martial Law… think.
http://www.peza.gov.ph/ – already gives tax breaks and one-stop shops for businesses.
Good job Irineo. I know with your capability for fast read and encyclopedic knowledge, you will start the ball rolling on deconstructing, etc.
Thanks Ireneo for the deconstruction. I’ll share it to others.
That was fast. Care to make an article for your blog?
Yep, makes sense. Coming out Sunday – Programa ni Duterte. Deconstruction Part II.
nice
A lot of fanatics are in awe of his ‘steel mill’ idea. Forgetting that any primary school playing warcraft would think the same.
🙂
We need more engineers and scientists.Infrastructure,climate change,waste to energy are the things I can think of that needs engineers and scientists.
Friend, a very interesting description from Tomas Gomez III, “Imagine, President Duterte, is a COPROLALIAC.” It means “oral defecation”…meaning habitual oral defecating president. Man, this should be gold. In fact, this can be used as a campaign slogan. Very short and will require his supporters to do a research. Don’t miss the article and be sure to be sitting when you’re reading it. http://news.abs-cbn.com/blogs/opinions/12/16/15/imagine-president-duterte-a-coprolaliac
Tomas “Buddy” Gomez III is a regular reader of this blog. Glad our readership is returning the consideration. As per usual, he is right on target.
Just as I thought something: a would-be President must be the one to mind his or her language in public, because when in office the wrong choice of words could spell diplomatic disaster.
An unvoiced prayer of the innocent kids….Hope our parents will not vote for Duterte whose supporters are mouthing his swearings, who treat those dirty words as music to their ears
Guys, heard the latest news from the COMELEC? They validated and accepted Duterte’s COC for president. Maybe they’re reading our posts here in our Society. Ain’t that good news for us Mar supporters? 🙂 No more reason for him to campaign for Binay, yehey!!!! Ayyy, mali, tingin ko nalungkot si Mary. Hi, Mary! Cheeeers!
*******
The COMELEC should have settled the Dino case first. They are just creating unnecessary headaches.
*****
Edgar, my hunch is that COMELEC, by validating Duterte’s COC, has accepted Dino’s explanation as an honest mistake his ‘for Pasay City mayor’ statement in the application hence there’s a good possibility that the Dino’s case moot already. Plus, the complainant Ruben Castor was not attending the hearing, maybe not interested on the case anymore. Just my hunch.
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From the Rappler article:
1. “Bautista, however, said this is ‘entirely without prejudice to the pending disqualification case’ against Martin Diño, whom Duterte is substituting for.”
Last paragraph:
2. “Castor’s lawyer, Oliver Lozano, clarified that their petition aims not directly to disqualify Duterte. Instead it aims to declare Diño’s COC null and void, the “legal consequence” of which is barring Duterte from substituting for Diño.”
*****
Edgar, please take note that Duterte’s COC was filed after the expiration of the COMELEC deadline date for filing, thus COMELEC’s latest move of validating and accepting it surely was based on his substituting for Dino’s erroneous COC and no other.
Oliver Lozano’s contention that their petition is aimed “to declare Dino’s COC null and void” , it seems to me, has no more value since the latest COMELEC ruling will attests Dino’s COC was not nullified nor voided, otherwise, what could be the basis for validating a COC filed after the deadline?
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Mary is correct.
Read the first quote I cited again.
The COMELEC sees the two cases as separate issues: the first issue is the validity of Duterte’s CoC, and the second is the validity of substitution.
They are saying that Duterte’s CoC is valid as a document, therefore his name can appear on the ballot.
The have not ruled yet on the validity of Dino’s CoC and whether Duterte can substitute for Dino.
That’s why I said the COMELEC is creating headaches.
*****
Okay. If the time comes that the COMELEC disqualified Duterte with finality I will be the first to congratulate Mary for being correct in her wishes. Though if Roxas lost the election because of that I don’t think I will have the heart to do it, :).
I think that this discussion is a case wherein which my hunch is being pitted against Mary’s wishes and hope and we don’t know the final result until the fat lady sing. I think that the path to a Roxas win is on a cross road at this point in time and which direction to take is most challenging.
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The latest from Philstar:
http://www.philstar.com/headlines/2015/12/18/1533841/duterte-wins-round-1-dq
Read Commissioner Rowena Guanzon’s take which is my take. But Castor did not appear in last Wednesday’s COMELEC session when his case was supposed to be taken up. I have an inkling that he will not appear again in today’s session.
*****
“Though if Roxas lost the election because of that I don’t think I will have the heart to do it” – Bert
You lost me there, Bert, Mar will lose the election because of Duterte’s disqualification? Why is that? Because voters will blame him? But why? Just like in the case of Poe, was the LP the one who filed the DQ cases, who filled up the wrong residency period in 2013 CoC..?. nor was it the LP who filled up the application for dual citizenship with the wrong info…?… was the LP the one who played hele hele bago quierre, so much so that a hastily prepared CoC has to be prepared to preserve a slot for him?
What is wrong with way these supporters process their thinking? Or do the majority of all the voters of this nation think that way?
I simply don’t understand.
Mary,
Ito kasi ang sinabi ko dati. Tinatamad akong mag type, kaya copy paste na lang, galing ito sa itaas. Para lang hindi tayo naliligaw sa usapan. Okay lang, Alam kong disagree ka dito, okay lang.
“Bert says:
December 16, 2015 at 5:29 pm
Duterte has said it already. He will campaign for Binay if he and Poe are disqualified. I think this will be very bad for Mar Roxas. The rabid supporters of Duterte and Poe will surely gravitate to whoever is the presidential candidate that can give Roxas a good fight if both Poe and Duterte are finally disqualified. Roxas will have no chance in that scenario. There is this perception kasi na hawak ng LP at ng administration ang COMELEC at mga courts na magdi-disqualify kay Duterte at kay Poe kaya kapag na-disqualify sila ay mangangampanya sigurado sina Poe at Duterte pabor sa kalaban ni Mar. Patay si Mar sa ganitong situation.
The COMELEC, the courts, and everybody concerned in this election should think twice and thrice, before opting for this matter of disqualification.
Mas maganda ang laban ni Mar kung parehas ang laban sa kampanya na hindi madi-disqualify si Duterte at si Poe. Just my two centavos.”
Ok, Bert …I got you. Yours is the practical point of view, and mine is the idealistic one, a not-on-the-ground perspective. A simplistic, hard headed view of a non politician, democracy fighter.
On Poe’s case, constitution and law above popularity, on Duterte, Comelec procedures which that government institution, SC included should resolve without any prodding or influence from the administration. Back to the adage – the law maybe harsh, but that is the law.
It’s not just about Poe, but it should be about all foundlings, a precedent to be set up just to accommodate her could possibly give rise to a Russian blue eyed caucasian baby who can be in government service upon reaching adulthood, same with a chinky eyed, fair baby of North Korean parentage, left here for evil purposes.
Blame my spy thriller addiction for this wild imagination.
On Duterte, the prayer of the child in my failed attempt above to post a meme explains my point. He is just not presidentiable in his principles, in his utterances, in his vigilante style of justice which focus on petty criminals and addicts, but seemingly ignoring and even pandering the big time plunderers like Binay and Marcos, his support of the NPA. He simply doesn’t care about the constitution notwithstanding his “I don’t want Poe making a mess of the constitutwion, that’s why I’m running” ….he is messing with our fundamental law of the land by his self confessed acts as mayor in Davao City, and seems to be daring the Comelec to enforce their procedures by his late entry in the race using a faulty CoC.
The electorate must not be led by these polticians if ever they will turn against Mar and the country in the event that they are disqualified in a fairly judged ruling. Factual reality versus perception should rule.
Cheers, Bert…as you rightfully say, …ok lang if we have difference in opinions. Mar maybe number 4 in the surveys but I simply won’t throw in the towel in this one. As Winnie Monsod wrote, the surveys in a country I forgot where, gave a guy just 8% a week before the national election, but he won convincingly against all odds. Will try to provide a link on that column. I pray this will be true with Mar, with God’s help.
I need to correct a portion of the above post …it’s 8% six weeks before the elections, not a week….my bad
“Mayor Mabilog indeed was No. 5 in the 2014 World Mayor Prize, with the winner being Naheed Nenshi of Calgary, Canada. Nenshi is the first Muslim mayor of a major North American city (elected in 2010), and it is interesting to note that six weeks before the elections, the opinion polls gave him only 8 percent of the votes. But he won, thanks in large part to social media and door-to-door campaigning, and when he stood for reelection in 2013, he got 75 percent of the votes cast. So don’t anybody think that it’s all over in the Philippines”
http://opinion.inquirer.net/91102/compare-iloilo-with-davao-2
http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/710846/duterte-likens-binay-to-marcos
This was months ago…now he is singing a different tune, he changes his mind so often one is costantly wondering if he has a serius bone in his body, his mouth is not connected to his brain or what.
He is seriously intent in muddling this election and his supporters are not aware that they are being taken for a ride.
http://www.naturalnews.com/036112_sociopaths_cults_influence.html# – Mary, about his mouth not being connected to his brain:
#10) Sociopaths are delusional and literally believe that what they say becomes truth merely because they say it! Charles Manson, the sociopathic murderer, is famous for saying, “I’ve never killed anyone! I don’t need to kill anyone! I THINK it! I have it HERE! (Pointing to his temple.) I don’t need to live in this physical realm…”
Hi, Bert..cheers back to you…..What I understood from the news reports is that the Comelec performed their ministerial function of accepting the CoC, any DQ cases filed will be heard and decided accordingly. Just like what they did with Poe’s CoC who got disqualified later. The legal division will rule, to be elevated to the enbanc division, possibly on to the SC. And meanwhile they have to upload the candidates’ names in their system preparatory to the printing of official ballots, and they have a deadline to beat.
Confusion will certainly be around, time is of the essence, and I wish they would hurry, same with the SC….but at least the Comelec today under Com. Bautista is being transparent and doing their duty compared to former Com. Brillantes who did not …at least on Poe who was allowed to run and assume office without ruling on her qualifications on citizenship.
Does it mean that unless a citizen files a complaint, they will not scrutinize if candidates are qualified or not, on their own?
Mary, please see my answer to Edgar above.
minimum requirements ata eh.Pero dapat kung pumasa sa qualifications di na kailangan ng disqualification.Iba yata rules ng qualification at disqualification e.Ang labo.
kaya malabo, me lamat ata ang salamin ko.
Ha ha ha…malabo talaga…bakit ba lagi kapos sa oras…
I think the ministerial duty of the Comelec (clerks) receiving the CoC is seeing to it that a CoC is sufficient in form and substance not whether the candidate is qualified or not. I maybe wrong.. The legal division determines the latter and will rule on the disqualification cases.
BTW, I agree with sir edgar, why ever did the Comelec clerks accept that faulty CoC of Dino. Or the legal division could have ruled it null and void later, they themselves caused this national headache…this should never have happened if PDP Laban party had not rushed the filing just to preserve a slot for that hele hele bago quirre Duterte.
Pwedeng meme ito:
Papano aasenso ang Pinas, eh panay llamado at turd-brain ang mga namumuno. Vietnam will soon surpassed Pinas, methinks. They are even selling high-end cutleries and silverware at Bed and Bath, whereas Fil-imports are mingy food items at asian outlets. Gising mga kababayan !!!! We should not just provide labor force, we should provide products too. Grab the pharmaceutical loot that India is enjoying now. Does anyone realize that most of the contents of our medicine cabinets come from India ?????? They might have English and
German sounding companies on the label but the pills all come from India. I even bought an eye drop that says made in Indonesia, of all places and this from CVS !!!!
Sometimes it just depends on what and where our sensors and sensitivities are planted. For example, India: as far back as the early ’70s the status of metal finishing technology was already at par with the much of the US, not so much in quantity of shops but the quality of applied research on metal and affiliated materials (electronics); shipbuilding & salvaging was already a significant technical industry; in pharmaceuticals India has a comparable involvement. Same goes for IT. I don’t have stats for Vietnam but I won’t be surprised if the country turns out significant initiatives in more than a few industries. Of course, India has been around the block of human affairs a few times. To my mind, we can look to the subcontinent for similar paradigms of progress. She is the largest democracy and we are somewhat the smaller democracy; we both have European colonial roots; we are in the tropics as is a good portion of India. Thus we can also point to BPO experience. So there is open field running available.
Mittal is a steel multinational based in India.. q.e.d. India has now moved up from being a simple provider of programming teams to have its own world-class software corporations like Wipro.. regards from Istanbul where I am working on getting a new project going…
BTW the project leader here told me that Trudeau of Canada was very popular at the last G-20 over here… many women wanted to have selfies with him.. I told her the competition in Manila was Canada vs. Mexico… she told me she would google Mexico’s President. 🙂
Mexico’s president.
Man! if Dutertre was young and good looking,I could compare him to Nieto. Drug Cartels and Narcopolitics still abound,but he still has a lot of following,
“we should provide products too”
Mismo. Siya nawa.
Thanks for the wonderful article, Rolan F. Literatus! I wrote something:
The Pied Piper of Killing Fields
What is this? What is this man doing?
Why does he command a following?
It jolts the holy spirit in you, that a Christian
nation such as ours, going crazy over the
Papal Visit, would come to this: following
the Pied Piper to the Killing Fields,
if it’s a problem, easy, kill it, that’s his
plan, thinking, program, agenda, platform,
take-off point, kill ’em, kill ’em all, for the
Philippines will be peaceful once more,
a pride to the world, the peace of a
burial ground, you tiptoe through it,
careful not to disturb the ghosts
crying for mercy and justice, we were
guilty, they say, we raped and murdered,
pushed drugs, made Davao synonymous
with hell, and now we are gone, but our
souls and spirits still cry for justice,
for only God can take our lives, is it not,
and what’s this, one victim lies like
a sick dog, and what is he saying,
he was just passing by, not guilty like
the rest, innocent as a lamb for sacrifice,
“I was only passing by,” he said, “saw
the DDS execute a man, shot him pointblank,
I screamed, wait, I said, you cannot
kill him, that is against the law, he is
not guilty until proven otherwise,
but the executioners had the mayor’s
green and go, kill ’em, kill ’em all, and when
they saw me, heard my screams,
screams for justice and mercy, they
shot me too, until I lie in this place
and I would not leave, not yet,
until someone from the world of the
living will say, ‘Enough! Can’t you see
what you are doing? You are enraging
the God of heaven, for he has a plan
of salvation for each one of his creatures.
Stop the blood bath, and what is this,
you want the entire country to be
ruled by the same mayor, you are
killers as well, killers as well. Your souls
will not rest in peace. Your country
will be punished, will lie down in
purgatory like a sick dog’.”
Will Villanueva
December 18, 2015
Thanks Wilfredo. Yours is an excellent piece, too. Unmistakable scenario for a rabid leader who also inspires his supporters to be rabid as him.
asong ulol
azkal na matakaw
babaeng tuta
nanghihinang aso
matinong asongbahay
bago tignan ang pagkatao
ng ating mga kandidato
tignan ang pagka-aso
Olongliteratus, this great short story needed to be translated into German…
http://filipinogerman.blogsport.eu/riss-philippinische-kurzgeschichte/
now that Duterte is being reported on in German papers…
Thank you for the translation, Irineo. It’s an honor. There’s something about the German language. Every time I encounter an article written in the language, it always seems to evoke strong passion. I don’t know, maybe the abundance of consonants in the words? At any rate, thank you again and happy holidays to everyone here!
Posted this comment at raissa’s in response to Atty. Rene Ipil’s defense of the DS and his comments to this guest blog article.
This is from a plain citizen voicing an opinion. No amount of justification can make the DS and their style of vigilante justice correct in the eyes of the law. The Lamat article is just relating another face of the DS. We can never be sure of the DS’ members frame of mind in any given situation. Their set of policies and methodology could be ignored by uncontrollable factions. Another face is that of mistaken identity. One life taken without due process is one too many. We had that under Marcos, and I say NEVER again.
Like Binay who mouths that he will do for the entire country what he did in Makati, Digong’s supporters are hoping he will do for the entire country what he did in Davao City. Who is to say that these Death Squad will not abuse these killings? Can Digong oversee their actions in the whole country simultaneously? If in just one city, errors, mistakes happened, how many innocent lives will be in danger if this is done nationwide?
What about the constitutionality of it all? Will the DS say in all instances that their killimgs are all for hopeless criminals in and out of jail upon bail settlement, or in actual acts of crime, who will say so differently if everyone is cowering in fear? Digong’s supporters are fond of saying are you a drug addict, are you a criminal that you fear our idol? And our answer to that is no, not necessarily, what we fear are the abuses, the mistakes and the outright disregard of due process. The wrong way cannot make the wrong right. Di maaaring itama ng isa pang pagkakamali ang isang mali.
We are not yet in the crime environment that Mexico and her drug cartels are in..and even if we are, it still is not justification to do away with due process. Mar has introduced innovations in PNP, with the assistance of its German counterparts, as relayed by IBRS. Let us improve our justice system, the police and their crime control procedures, let’s build more prison and rehabilitate the misguided youth of our land.
https://manangbok.wordpress.com/2016/01/09/the-kind-of-story-i-would-l-like-to-write/ – related.